When I was talking with my therapist about going no contact with my abusive mother, I said to her “she carried me in her belly, she kept me healthy, clothed, gave me a home. How can I cut her off?” And she said “those are the bare minimums of being a parent. What joy or peace does she bring to you?” That was a pivotal moment in my healing journey. I’ve been no contact for 6 months
And don't know if youve had children. but as a mother, I feel such enjoyment from my child that I feel like no parent deserves thanks for the basics past childhood. If they didnt get their reward in just the joy of loving that child then they missed out and thats on them. Did I sacrifice to buy extra gifts for my child? yes, because I ENJOYED IT. You endure Disney World because you ENJOY watching their joy. More parents need to think of every minute with their child as "visitation" not "babysitting". She got it wrong and you owe her nothing.
@@CultstoConsciousness I would like to add that only 144000 are chosen. I am not christian and I was chosen to spread messages to humanity about the real wickedness in our world, so that people will wake up and not allow us humans to be whisked away to camps when they say you will be taken care of and they will not. I am the all seeing eye and can sense things and then relay messages to people. People think we are conspiracy theorists, and so what? in actuality they are following the the bible script to make bad things happen worldwide. It is a battle between light and dark.
I left a pretty strict Russian Baptist community 8 years ago. I could relate so much to Rachel’s story. I’m still hesitant to be fully open about my deconstruction too, afraid of backlash from family, but I’m growing stronger in my new identity every year. Maybe one day I can be on the podcast with my story ❤
After giving the 10 virgins lesson to my Beehives class my shelf started slipping. Then the used chewing gum lesson really upset my apple cart. I couldn’t keep telling the girls things that I felt and believed would do more harm than good to them at that young age. That was one of my early times of going inactive. I love this interview. thanks!
I got those toxic lessons in the 1970s, they’re still teaching that garbage? That girls are only property of boys and men. You have to stay clean for them. You don’t own your body.
At the end of my time as a Mormon, my daughter turned 12, and I was sceptical enough of the church that I knew how harmful YW could be. I got called into YW at the time she went in, and so I felt really relieved that I could guide all their lessons and make sure NOBODY was gonna teach those girls the goddamned licked cupcake lesson. I guess I should have thought harder about it and realized that the church was all wrong when I didn't even trust them to teach my kids! But it took another year before we left. One of my proud moments is that the last week I ever went to church I was to teach yw, and the assigned lesson was some putrid bullshit about Joseph Smith and the priesthood. I couldn't stomach it because I had just learned it was all a lie. So instead I just fuckin made up a lesson about heavenly mother and told all the girls whatever I could think of about the divine feminine 😅
@@ritag6341 it's an object lesson. They bring in a nice cupcake and ask if you want it. Everyone says yes. Then the teacher licks the icing so their saliva is all over it, and asks again. The idea is that everyone says no they don't want it anymore because now it's contaminated and gross. Then the teacher says that if you have sex before marriage, you are like a licked cupcake. Nobody will want you because you're contaminated.
What really hit me with this interview was the similarities with my upbringing, and I wasn't even in a cult. My parents, especially my Dad, were low level criminals and while I went to normal school, I lived a parallel life at home. So many similarities, moving with random excuses, being honest with the CPS first and then learning to become a really good liar, sometimes being too poor to eat properly and even living "off-grid" due to paranoia. We even had an emergency pantry and a "Grand Canyon" of sorts. Even feeling distant from friends and also kids who ran in my parents circle. You could trust no one, only your family. I didn't have to deconstruct my faith, but I had to deconstruct that my Dad believed in all sorts of conspiracy theories and though they were wonderful parents in one way, they completely failed in the other. They were all about freedom, though, inversely I had to learn why rules are good.
@@lauriepierce4068you are the cult member, Laurie. I am Gen X, before I get told I’m ten, and I’m here to tell you there is no cult of ‘wokism’. You are drinking some bad kool aid.
I was the same with my kids. I was controlled to the nth degree when I was raised, I even down to I was told what to wear each day, even when I was a teenager. I made a point of not doing the same with my own children.
@angelika7621 my parents did that shit. It was such bs because it's like they resolved their divorce drama in time to be control freaks in my adolescence. I hope they like not having grandkids. And maybe being kept outside like their hunting dogs I had to take care of every day after school.
Thank you for sharing. For me one of my breaking points was realizing one of my PRIMARY girls was in a foster situation after sexual abuse and we were teaching her chewed gum metaphors. But leaving a strong community as a autistic introvert has been very isolating.
I've discovered that I enjoy my own company. You can always join a hiking group or knitting, or singing. I now choose "my family." And they don't hurt me.💙
Seriously! As an active member in the Church of a Jesus Christ - I really hope people don’t listen to this and think that we teach this or that it’s “normal”. It’s absolutely not. We are on our 5th child (we love kids) and EVERY single one we had in the hospital. We use modern medicine. We educated based on local standards and stay very involved in the community and encourage a wide range of friends (different cultures and religions and perspectives). We watch movies and listen to music just like everyone else 😂 We have food storage but that’s because it’s just smart - the only insurance in a famine is having actual food. And I love concepts of SUSTAINABLE agriculture and living based on the seasons and land - not so much dependency on our shipping systems. 🤷🏼♀️ We wear pants and dresses - maybe we “cover up” a bit more. Anyway, I feel so bad for the abuse she endured. This type of behavior is typical of any group that becomes VERY legalistic and goes beyond the mark with the rules. It’s always about Jesus and keeping the first two commandments. 🙌🏻 ❤️
@rachelnelson8518 The problem here lies in the fact that the whole foundation of Lds teachings is based on an unstable foundation which is rooted in Masonic teachings mixed with a little Christianity. The opportunity for craziness to flourish in the Lds church is vast, mostly based on the basics of what Joseph and his supporters believed. And what the earliest Lds church taught and continued to morph into its current tradition. You can’t deny that crazy didn’t happen early in the church just because the current president and administration tries to whitewash history and redirect it to only the current narrative. History aka “HIS story” always belongs to the one with the most voice…or views…or money…but eventually the real story always rises to the surface and becomes truth.
She would relate a bit to the book “The Glass Castle”. Coming from a Mormon family of 13, we went through so much trauma as children and young adults. This book helped me see just how dysfunctional my upbringing was so that I never repeat it with my own children.
I just went to look at it-and it makes sense the comparison to an alcoholic parent. The placing religion or alcohol or drugs over the welfare, education, and loving relationship for children is a shared trauma across all that dysfunction.
I was exactly the same with being the "good girl" with my mom. Also, my husband was never patriarchal or misogynistic. He wanted an equal partner, as well. But, what she is describing about being obedient and second class to men is called "internalized sexism", and I had it as bad as she did!
I was so happy to hear how supportive and loving your husband is with all this! Speaking your truth is a good thing as it gives others the strength to do the same. Keeping family secrets keeps you sick with them.
You are raising great questions about CPS. As a teacher, I can tell you that we report things ALL the time. CPS is so overbooked and so lacking real solutions that the entire system is a mess. Keep fighting and keep voting for better systems because only then can we really have the resources to support kids in tough situations.
LOVE your tag, learningisnotquiet - you are likely an amazing teacher in a system that does not often recognize the realities of childhood and learning. Kudos to you.
I grew up in foster care, and from watching this I realized how that happened for my brother and sisters. It was my fault, I blabbed in a conference room with my siblings and honestly answered questions because everyone else was older and wasn’t talking…..I had no idea until hearing her speak about her experience that I possibly got us all taken away from my dad. We were poor and my mom had died. He struggled and sometimes we didn’t have heat. But he loved us and we always felt taken care of. We should t have been taken away. It just made all of our lives harder.
Were you able to reconnect with your family? I’m so sorry this happened to you and your siblings! It’s crazy that sometimes the children who really need help are left in abuse and loving families are separated. This wasn’t your fault. I pray you are comforted and blessed.
@@birdybirdy846 exactly. Taking kids from loving families because they are poor while paying foster parents to raise them will never make sense to me.
@@Dusty_Den right! Why not help out the families with that money. This system is ancient, not to mention highly abusive, corrupt, aaaand a ineffective. I’m tired of the excuses, “oh not enough funds, oh not enough workers, oh too many kids, not enough foster families…” listen, everything and everyone else should be put aside during budgeting, the children deserve priority. We are not short on social workers, or money, or foster parents, we are short of willing politicians. I hope everyone calls their current representative and demands that they start prioritizing the foster system. A random policeman shouldn’t have power over social workers while they are investigating a child abuse/neglect case. That’s obstruction of Justice! The children suffer as a result. And the social workers should have a system of checks and balance. Because I hear too many stories where they see the abuse and still decide all is well because “the parents love their kids” or “the house was vacuumed.” They shouldn’t be social workers if they can’t actually do the job effectively. Lastly, it should be obvious to share police reports with the foster system to always have the necessary details (recently heard of a case of CSA and the children called and reported abuse but the social workers would show up not having checked the previous workers notes or the police reports so the kids stayed with their father who routinely abused them. I hate that this isn’t a requirement. Children truly deserve more and our society has abdicated their village obligated to the welfare of its children
Thanks so much for sharing your story! I’m from a fundamentalist Christian background and I’m so amazed that it’s Mormon sisters who are helping me grapple with my own deconstruction! Thank you so much for your vulnerability and being so open! ❤
I never realized how much church scarred me and was culty until I started listening to these stories. It was too far off tbh. My family was kind, caring, and supportive tho. They did instill the fear of god in me. And I still catch myself askin “am I going to hell?” When I do something “wrong.”
Rachel's and Tara Westover's story really resonated hard with me. I was raised by a single mom who was a follower of Roy Masters. He was a one man show cult in Los Angeles in the 1960s and '70s. He and his followers eventually moved to southern Oregon and raised all kinds of hell up there in the 80s. It was all the same thing. I was pulled out of school after elementary school, I was hit by a car one time and got no medical treatment, there was no hot-water or heat in the house even though we were living in an apartment in Los Angeles. It wasn't an organized religion, it was like a mixture of pop psychology, right wing politics, mysogynism and various conspiracy theories. It almost doesn't matter what kind of religion it is; when taken to an extreme, they're all pretty much alike.
Interesting, when you google Roy Masters, it says he was a writer along with a list for other things and then Hypontist....scary. Sound like he was getting right into mind control. You're right, anything in extreme is not good. I am always looking for a balance.
Ooph. Watching this and realizing that the way I feel is depression, that I can't leave my job because of how I was conditioned as a child hits really hard. I've been an atheist since I was 12, but my mom is very religious and everything I did and continue to do has always been measured through the lens of what she thought was acceptable. I have been feeling suicidal, sleeping everyday after work, and just feeling like there is no way out. I know I wasn't the intended target, but I have been able to cry and think through why I'm so stuck for the first time in years. Thank you so much for this.
Hi Janet, thank you for sharing that. I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I’m happy that this video was even a little bit helpful to you in your journey. I had a guest named Calvin who mentioned when he was at his lowest he called a suicide prevention hotline and it saved his life. I’ll link his episode below in case you’d like to watch it. If not, know that it CAN get better, and awareness is key. I believe there are people out there who would love to help you and get you on a happier track. ❤️❤️❤️ ruclips.net/video/F8rKj809Avo/видео.html
Sometimes when you are in it, it feels like you will never get out of it. You can't do it by yourself. It will feel so good to talk to someone, just like how you shared here. You need to allow yourself to get help, you are worthy of love, and to be happy. A counselor can give to life skills that maybe your family didn't know how to. I was almost 30 before I learned what boundaries really ment. And it doesn't mean you just have to put up walls but you decide what you want and others have to respect that. ❤ Please get help.
Your not suffering. Paul suffered. Peter suffered. James David Matthew. Mary suffered . her son was executed in a most terrible way .before her eyes. It's ok. Many are called....
Rachel is such a great speaker! I loved the part where she began to appreciate the strangers at the grocery store. It's one of the best spiritual experiences to appreciate the people around you even if you don't know them. It reminds me that religion isn't the only way to connect to the universe.
Exmo here thank you so much for this conent it means so much! My parents talked about the last days more then the other mormon families i knew. Not to this level but still weird so i did relate to the whole glorifying the doomsday belief to cope with being taught such scary reality at such a young age
Omg when she used the term "family cult" it all clicked for me. And then when she started talking about rubbing her dad's feet....this just brought up so many memories that clicked for me. Thank you so much for sharing your story!
I have been binge watching your interviews/discussions for a little over a week now and this has been my favorite thus far. What a wonderful person Rachel is. So open, honest and genuine! I was born and raised Catholic and see a lot of similarities in the conditioning, shaming, self blame and even self loathing. Better to infiltrate young, impressionable minds once their spirit is broken. I still have what I would liken to a PTSD response to these memories especially about Catholic school and Sunday services. My relationship with God grew stronger when I walked away from the church.
I have been hard core bingeing your videos over the past couple weeks too! I have no experience with any of it but I like hearing peoples stories of overcoming. You have a really dope channel.
This took so much courage! Thank you for doing this episode. It shows how not only religions can be high demand, but some of our family members too. Will definitely read her book if she publishes one. I'd love to know about the details of how she grew up.
@@marianboudreau1337 BIBLE is the only book which: heals, guides, judge, warns, helps. Bible guides souls out from Babylon. Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments. Bible helps us see, what has value. Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace. Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost. Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after. Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons, dont be a thief and a robber. John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made. Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies. Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON: Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Oh Rachel I feel for you soooooo much. I have gone down the anxiety and depression path a few times. I totally understand how you are not able to go on the churches grounds. I understand how it can effect you the way it did and does and I feel for you. You are a strong wonderful amazing person, mom, wife, sister and daughter. It will get easier I am sure.
Rachel and Shelise, that was amazing. I have no experience at all with the cult experience or as you call it "high demand religions", but I find all of your stores so fascinating - and certainly eye-opening. You are providing an amazing service for so many people. Yay you!!
Thank you so much to Rachel for sharing her story. This really did remind me of Educated, and it makes me wonder how many others are out there who also have this intersectionality of extremism with Mormonism- I think it's probably a lot more than we would think. Also, major props to Shelise! I'm so glad I found your podcast. Thanks for taking the time to help share these important stories and thanks for the organization of your videos!
Thank you, Aubrie! I’m so happy to shed light on these groups! Just as Rachel said, there isn’t a lot of representation with this specific sect of Mormonism. I’m proud of her for sharing
Thank you Rachel so much for being so honest and open while sharing the best and worst of you. You have come through the other side. You sound happy and mentally healthy. The better you are the better your family is. The better your life is. You’re wonderful.
Omg! I grew up in doomsday Mormonism! I didn't even know this is a thing! I thought my family was just super weird compared to the rest of the mormon families 🤯
Her inner core was telling her to get out and save herself. So amazing that she has a loving and supportive husband. I’m so glad you listened to your inner voice and are working on you.
Wow. This video helped me process things I didn’t realize I still needed to process. Thank you Shelise and Rachel for so clearly articulating your experiences with Mormonism. I might actually send this to some active Mormons in my life, this is so well fleshed out and authentic. It inspires me to talk more so I can impact others the same
Wow! Very impressed with both of these incredible women. Rachel, keep following that amazing heart of yours. Shelise, you’re really good this. What meaningful work you’re doing. Keep going! 🙏
Hi Shelise 👋. I love your channel. It's really as simple as that. Real stories, real people, and realisations. Rachel- wow, you're going to be someone's 'she did it' person, and i think the inspiration title is rightfully deserved. Godspeed.❤❤
This is a wonderful interview. Rachel, you are a brave, beautiful and courageous person. Shelise, I was thinking you might want to interview Michelle Dowd, author of FORAGER, who grew up in an apocalyptic cult and learned to live off the land. It's a beautifully written book, really evocative and powerful. Rachel, I hope you write a book too. I will be happy to buy it!
She has a powerful story. She is so beautiful. I usually don’t have patience to listen to an interview this long. Fascinating to learn about the Mormon culture. God bless you both.
Hi, I must say THANK YOU for these interviews......It has helped me even though I was not in a cult but in a narcisistic marriage for 28 years, strangely alot rings true in my married life . This has help me not to blame myself even after 10yrs after my divorce as I noticed a lot of patterns were similar.❤❤❤❤
Hi Rachel! I have been waiting for this episode to air! I was informed by the Beauty that is your elder sister! What a powerful profound interview. I learned so much. The precision in articulating the difference between critical thinking and simply taking new information and manipulating it to match or fit one's current belief systems (false or not) was brilliant. Just one of the many pearls I received from this episode. Thank you Shelise for your purposeful impactful work towards humanity. I appreciate both of you young ladies .
I’ve gotta tell you, I check my shows every day. I saw that one of them was two hours long and I thought, “what? Two hours?” Not today. So, I checked YOU. I saw the show was 2+ hours and thought, “ok, I could watch shelise for a couple hours😂”. Apparently, I’m Shelise preferred!!!
I am a 68 year old mom/grandma and am here to tell you that I am proud of you! It is very hard to move beyond the disfunction. I have and continue to be there. Sadly, it most often requires leaving family members “behind “as you work to break the cycle of disfunction for yourself and your family/children. Everyone has their own “truth “ and sadly they often feel personally threatened when you challenge their beliefs/truths. That said, be strong! The future is bright and your children/husband deserve a strong healthy you!
Shalise, I have been looking at a lot of different you tube videos of coming out of cults. I really appreciate your style of interviewing of ex cult members. Thank you for what you are doing!
This is why your channel is so important, Shelise. I greatly appreciate the honesty expressed. It's very thought provoking. As I am listening to Rachel talking about her struggles with suicidal thoughts, I can't help but think about how many people this candid interview is helping as so many people can probably relate. ❤
It made me so happy that leaving didn't break up her family, after all the mess of her childhood finally she gets to have a nice family life!! She's so sweet, wish her all the best!
Congratulations on getting free of the high control and all the expectations that are heaped up on those of us that were raised in it. Welcome to your new and wonderful life 🎉
Thank you Rachel for sharing such a difficult story with grace and confidence. You’re a badass! And Shelise, your compassion and understanding is incredible!
The dad sounds like undiagnosed severe mental illness, all culty stuff apart. I'm glad you made it out, you seem to be in a good place now so I hope you can really heal from all that❤
Honestly it's extremely possible for someone to be perfectly sane and still have crazy beleifs like this. It does sound like you'd have to be insane, but you do not. He might have had some personality disorder, but not even necessarily that. But that's speculative. Also it's not mental illness, it's two different things.
100% sounds like he was suffering from serious delusions and even some hallucinations. I would bet he would be diagnosed with a serious mood disorder if he had gone out to seek help. Something is definitely not right with him.
Thank you for sharing even though it was difficult. I was so moved by your husband choosing you again and again. Love and respect in action now, rather than this weird future faking, really is an eye opener. I am so so grateful that you made it through that. Edit: Also, I really love how long this video is. There was a lot to cover and I'm glad that you didn't cut it down.
Thank You for sharing your story. I think you are so smart and well spoken. I’m glad you were able to distance yourself from this harmful influence and find happiness for you and your family. Kudos also to your supportive husband.
Wow! She is awesome. She endured so much trauma from being such a severely neglected and parentified child in a horrific cult mentality to enduring yet more religious trauma as an adult. I’m so happy for her and her family that they were able to deconstruct ❤
I wasn't Mormon, but I related SO MUCH to this. So many things were so familiar. It will never stop being crazy to me that all of these cults / controlling religions have such similarities and cause such similar effects on parenting and whatnot.
It is amazing that Rachel survived. Shame and guilt are not healthy. Perfectionism destroys people. You have a long way and you intuition is right on for you. Use your voice to continue to stand up for you. I have hung up on people who tried to shame me. You can do the same. And if someone does it in person, walk away, go somewhere else. You are a brave woman and I am very proud of you.
Our local community college, a part of the NY State University system, offers a program for homeschooled high schoolers that my kids attended. They take classes at the college with college kids, it costs 1/3 the tuition per credit ($50 instead of $150), and once they complete 24hrs of core courses (math, lit, history, science, humanities) & 3 electives, they automatically get their ged. My oldest started when they were 13, graduate at 15, and took 2.5 more semesters before transferring to uni in Austin TX at 17yr. In NY you can’t obtain your ged until you’re 17, and bc my oldest was accepted into their program at 16yo, they never got their ged diploma until after getting their bachelor’s degree bc an employer required it. It was really wild. My youngest kid decided to slow track thru the program and finished with his ged at 18yo. It is really a fantastic program, plus they are nearly 1/2 way to an associates degree/transfer program at the end of high school.
I love that there's more options these days, I had a very hard time in public school, a lot of people did. I would have loved something like what you describe, thanks for sharing 😊
Hi Rachel ! 🙂 Thank you for telling us your story :-) For having the courage to to put it out there. It is my prayer that whoever hears your truth will be saved from the same fate. 😭😭😍
From Julia Butterfly Hill's amazing, nearly two years long living on top of her beloved ancient redwood named Luna to save her from being cut down by a greedy, destructive lumber corporation to yes, all trees should be cut down and destroyed because it was prophecied that it would happen and we don't want to slow down the arrival of the doomsday. This really hurt. This was such an intense and truthful interview, just listening to Rachel felt like a catharsis. Thank you both. You are amazing.
Wow, what an amazing woman, mother and wife. Rachel please know how much your story and life means to all humans. Struggles with our faith, family, community, etc... can be so mentally and physically damaging over the long run. I hope you and all your family continue to receive healing, kindness, joy and happiness together as you walk this path. Your light is so beautiful, Thank You for sharing it here! 💜💜💜
This interview made me feel very seen with my own journey with an unusual form of Mormonism and family dynamics. Thank you for your time and bringing this to light and how it can affect someone.
I’m an older non-Mormon woman and I have been transfixed by Rachel’s story. After listening for the last two hours, I wish I could give her a long hug.
Thanks Rachel, you did a wonderful thing, sharing your story. It was your story to tell. Your family members have their own stories and they can tell theirs however they want to but they should leave you alone, about yours. Thank you Shalise, another great interview.🤗
In defense of CPS in this situation, it's really not good for families to break them up just because they're poor. It doesn't actually help the kids, and is just another way of criminalizing poverty. They were probably working with her parents to help them get access to more assistance. Being poor isn't the same as being abusive and we really don't want to have a system where we're destroying families because of poverty.
Yes absolutely, when there is love there and no actual abuse going on it's generally considered better to try to help the parents to improve their situation for the children.
Watching the Misery Machine, would be my suggestion to you. I don't have much faith in Cps. As a child cps only collected money, it's obvious to me they didn't give a damn about me
I love watching the interviews it makes it easier to understand the mind sets of the people involved in these things and be more understanding and supportive of those that choose to walk away from them
Thank you for sharing this incredible story. I related to your Yavapai College learning. So much of what I heard was that your Dad had his issues, but many aspects also pointed to some possible mental health problems. Thank you for being brave!
When it comes to CPS, it really depends on the state what exactly they will do. Things like neglect and abuse (Physical, verbal/emotional, sexual.) is all kind of difficult to prove. But, with Rachel's situation they may have felt circumstances were not dire enough to remove them from the parents, and put them in the already over run system. On a general basis, social services wants families to stay together so they can grow up safe and content. Social workers themselves are seriously overworked and often underpaid, like with many careers of working with the public, burn out is stupidly common. Source- Quite a few family members that worked in the various sectors of Social work, in both government services as well as private organizations.
Gosh Rachel what a time of it! So appreciate you sharing such tricky, black hole topics. You did such a great job of getting it over and I fully see there is so much more to each area you spoke of. There is a common thread with these religions/parents and fanatics that who you are is not enough. Then they miss the most amazing bit of humanity that we are all individual and each person has their own characteristics that are special but these dominant people want to sit on those inbuilt-natural-diamonds and they want you to be something different. If only they could see to encourage and nurture what is special in each person. I think you also have one deep ingrained thing that nearly all the people who 'escaped' have, you are truthful and honest and as such in the end the only thing that can happen is that you will have a 'shaking day' (aboriginal term for a day where life takes a new path) and you see that the religion or person doesn't have a truthful foundation and you can't live with lies. But now you can live for you, and your children and husband - it's not selfish, it's just living a life! All the best to you & yours xx
Rachel, you are brave and not alone. Secrets eat us up inside, and they always find the light. Best to let them out to release from the grasp. And you are right, there are so many more people out there that have a similar situation, and you are 100% helping those who feel they are not safe to leave yet. Much love ❤
Thank you for sharing your story! I think it is so beautiful that you have been able to find some peace by following your own intuition. I think you are so brave for being true to yourself. I have a different background than you but I am relating to certain aspects of your story. I think it is an amazing reminder that being yourself and working through life with honesty and transparency is such a universal thing. And it’s hard!!! Wishing you and everyone going through this situation some peace and healing.
Thank you Rachel!! Your deconstruction was like mine and not like mine at the same time lol: the guilt, shame, secret-keeping, feeling like it’s your fault and then realizing that by skipping church a couple of sundays how much better I felt🤯😂You’re a great story-teller and feel free to write a book!!!
FANTASTIC EPISODE thank you so much for sharing I learned so much which helps my own head and heart heal and my husband children and the real me thank you tremendously ❤️
There's a peace that will settle over you once you've spoken your truth. It's NOT easy or comfortable but necessary for your own mental health! I'm proud of you for sharing such difficult and painful, private things. It helps us understand and hopefully become more compassionate and loving humans!
Not only do I feel like I knew families just like this from growing up in Mormonism, but the core cognitive dissonance she speaks of with her views re: science and faith and such feels just like my family's world view growing up (just we were less extreme and conspiratorial). Thank you for sharing your story! Definitely really appreciating this channel, it's helped me recontextualize, deconstruct and process some the trauma I had of growing up trans and queer in Mormonism
I feel like I heal a little bit with every episode I watch of this channel. I learn that I'm not alone in the crazies of the cult experiences and how the aftermath effects you so profoundly. Thank you for creating a safe place for people to heal with these conversations with such brave and beautiful people like Rachel.
I am enjoying your channel so much, learning so much, even though I was not raised in a cult, I have been involved in many cult like organizations, groups.any group , organized religion eventually becomes cult like, unspoken rules. I am amazed at you and your quests for being such strong people, moral people. , and so dedicated to finding your own truth. It’s easier to go along and not think for yourself.
Rachel, thank you so much for your bravery and honesty. I could relate to so many nuances of your experience. This was such a beautiful interview. Yay for all of us being free to live our lives. Much love! 💜
I find it so ironic that you point out that your religious life doesn't HAVE to be so hard, because that was exactly the way I felt when I started dating my husband after being in an abusive relationship. At first it was kinda terrifying because you're waiting for the other shoe to drop, since that's all you've known. In the end, though, peaceful relationships and interactions, whether romantic or religious or something else entirely, those are the healthy ones.
Thank you very much Rachel for sharing your experiences and Shelise for arranging these interviews and conducting them so well and with so much compassion ❤️ I was typing a very lengthy comment about how I’m worried my family might be going down a similar doomsday route and about my personal experience learning to think for myself and use my own moral compass etc. when my phone died 🥲 I don’t think I can retype all that so I’ll just say thank you for the video and that I loved what Rachel said about living to the beat of your own drum, because I’ve had a bit of a harrowing experience doing so but I never stopped because it’s just too important not to give yourself up to the tyranny. Much love 😊
As do I 😅 I don’t think there’s any way they’ll become like what this video is about (polygamy would be a huge no… I think, and no one’s ditching hospitals) but the whole moving to an ultra conservative state to buy land on which to build a multi family homestead with a bomb shelter and a host of other WWIII/last days preparations is giving me pause.
Such a great story of awakening! Rachel's story is very inspiring and real. I appreciate her bravery in speaking out so others can also find their true consciousness. Great stuff!
Omg thank you so much for sharing Rachel. I 💯 relate to taking the “medicine “ thinking it will solve the depression and anxiety but it all only getting worse. When I left Christianity it was the same way. I had decided to take a break so I could have space to think for myself and then I realized I was feeling and doing a little better. My depression, anxiety, and my mental health all together was beginning to improve. It’s such a hard thing to grapple with when you’ve dedicated your whole life this one purpose but that is the thing making you the most “sick”. Thank you so much for doing this podcast. It has and is helping me so much in my deconstructing journey.
Thank you for sharing Rachel. This was an amazing episode. You seem to be such a beautiful and kind person. I am so glad that you managed to become as kind to yourself as you always were to others. ❤ I am so sorry that all of these church experiences were so traumatizing to you and I command you for doing the right thing for yourself and, in the end, becoming a better model to your children (not by leaving the church, but by putting your me talk health before anything else).
I just discovered your channel and it's been quite the day of bingeing. As a Provo ex-LDS, I feel waay to many of your experiences personally. I am the proto-typical apostate that seems to come up occasionally. I'd love to converse with you outside of the comments section, if your schedule allows. Thank you for your candor.
I appreciate you both and your insights I’m a recovering Catholic and really understand the freedom of just learning to trust yourself and your instincts . It is such a process I’m 76 and still a work in process ❤😊
I know your channel talks about some heavy stuff and I love to learn that's why I'm here but I have to compliment you on the sound quality of your videos it is perfection
This was one of the best episodes. I truly love this podcast as it gets me a huge insight in american life sadly. I am from Stockholm Sweden were cults are rather rare cause of how secular we are. Sending love and thanks to both of you ladies for sharing and and being such strong rulemodels just by being you! ❤🎉❤
Wonderful episode - thank you Rachel! Maybe Rachel didn't want to talk about it but I'm really curious about the overlap with her parents' teaching and the Lori / Chad Daybell teachings.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
When I was talking with my therapist about going no contact with my abusive mother, I said to her “she carried me in her belly, she kept me healthy, clothed, gave me a home. How can I cut her off?” And she said “those are the bare minimums of being a parent. What joy or peace does she bring to you?”
That was a pivotal moment in my healing journey. I’ve been no contact for 6 months
Woah. That’s beautiful ❤️
And don't know if youve had children. but as a mother, I feel such enjoyment from my child that I feel like no parent deserves thanks for the basics past childhood. If they didnt get their reward in just the joy of loving that child then they missed out and thats on them. Did I sacrifice to buy extra gifts for my child? yes, because I ENJOYED IT. You endure Disney World because you ENJOY watching their joy. More parents need to think of every minute with their child as "visitation" not "babysitting". She got it wrong and you owe her nothing.
I did the same with my dad and his wife. They just kept up a toxic cycle and though I miss my dad and love him, I am freer.
Amen
@@CultstoConsciousness I would like to add that only 144000 are chosen. I am not christian and I was chosen to spread messages to humanity about the real wickedness in our world, so that people will wake up and not allow us humans to be whisked away to camps when they say you will be taken care of and they will not. I am the all seeing eye and can sense things and then relay messages to people. People think we are conspiracy theorists, and so what? in actuality they are following the the bible script to make bad things happen worldwide. It is a battle between light and dark.
I left a pretty strict Russian Baptist community 8 years ago. I could relate so much to Rachel’s story. I’m still hesitant to be fully open about my deconstruction too, afraid of backlash from family, but I’m growing stronger in my new identity every year. Maybe one day I can be on the podcast with my story ❤
Personally I’d love to see that
After giving the 10 virgins lesson to my Beehives class my shelf started slipping. Then the used chewing gum lesson really upset my apple cart. I couldn’t keep telling the girls things that I felt and believed would do more harm than good to them at that young age. That was one of my early times of going inactive. I love this interview. thanks!
I got those toxic lessons in the 1970s, they’re still teaching that garbage? That girls are only property of boys and men. You have to stay clean for them. You don’t own your body.
At the end of my time as a Mormon, my daughter turned 12, and I was sceptical enough of the church that I knew how harmful YW could be. I got called into YW at the time she went in, and so I felt really relieved that I could guide all their lessons and make sure NOBODY was gonna teach those girls the goddamned licked cupcake lesson.
I guess I should have thought harder about it and realized that the church was all wrong when I didn't even trust them to teach my kids! But it took another year before we left.
One of my proud moments is that the last week I ever went to church I was to teach yw, and the assigned lesson was some putrid bullshit about Joseph Smith and the priesthood. I couldn't stomach it because I had just learned it was all a lie. So instead I just fuckin made up a lesson about heavenly mother and told all the girls whatever I could think of about the divine feminine 😅
What is the licked cupcake lessiin?
@@ritag6341 it's an object lesson. They bring in a nice cupcake and ask if you want it. Everyone says yes. Then the teacher licks the icing so their saliva is all over it, and asks again. The idea is that everyone says no they don't want it anymore because now it's contaminated and gross.
Then the teacher says that if you have sex before marriage, you are like a licked cupcake. Nobody will want you because you're contaminated.
Iwill III I
What really hit me with this interview was the similarities with my upbringing, and I wasn't even in a cult. My parents, especially my Dad, were low level criminals and while I went to normal school, I lived a parallel life at home. So many similarities, moving with random excuses, being honest with the CPS first and then learning to become a really good liar, sometimes being too poor to eat properly and even living "off-grid" due to paranoia. We even had an emergency pantry and a "Grand Canyon" of sorts. Even feeling distant from friends and also kids who ran in my parents circle. You could trust no one, only your family.
I didn't have to deconstruct my faith, but I had to deconstruct that my Dad believed in all sorts of conspiracy theories and though they were wonderful parents in one way, they completely failed in the other. They were all about freedom, though, inversely I had to learn why rules are good.
What about the cult of wokeism?
@@lauriepierce4068 Which part of my comment made you ask this question?
@@lauriepierce4068what does that mean?
@Calamity Jane they're just looking for attention 🙄
@@lauriepierce4068you are the cult member, Laurie. I am Gen X, before I get told I’m ten, and I’m here to tell you there is no cult of ‘wokism’. You are drinking some bad kool aid.
i really admire how much rachel respects her kids' autonomy and doesn't just treat them as little possessions or extensions of their parents
I was the same with my kids. I was controlled to the nth degree when I was raised, I even down to I was told what to wear each day, even when I was a teenager. I made a point of not doing the same with my own children.
@angelika7621 my parents did that shit. It was such bs because it's like they resolved their divorce drama in time to be control freaks in my adolescence. I hope they like not having grandkids. And maybe being kept outside like their hunting dogs I had to take care of every day after school.
Thank you for sharing. For me one of my breaking points was realizing one of my PRIMARY girls was in a foster situation after sexual abuse and we were teaching her chewed gum metaphors.
But leaving a strong community as a autistic introvert has been very isolating.
I've discovered that I enjoy my own company. You can always join a hiking group or knitting, or singing. I now choose "my family." And they don't hurt me.💙
Her upbringing was some Chad Daybell style craziness. She honored and followed her heart by leaving - both times.
I thought the same thing! Tent cities, each person having special powers/skills, ‘proofing’ reminds me of portals. 🤢
Seriously! As an active member in the Church of a Jesus Christ - I really hope people don’t listen to this and think that we teach this or that it’s “normal”. It’s absolutely not. We are on our 5th child (we love kids) and EVERY single one we had in the hospital. We use modern medicine. We educated based on local standards and stay very involved in the community and encourage a wide range of friends (different cultures and religions and perspectives). We watch movies and listen to music just like everyone else 😂 We have food storage but that’s because it’s just smart - the only insurance in a famine is having actual food. And I love concepts of SUSTAINABLE agriculture and living based on the seasons and land - not so much dependency on our shipping systems. 🤷🏼♀️
We wear pants and dresses - maybe we “cover up” a bit more.
Anyway, I feel so bad for the abuse she endured. This type of behavior is typical of any group that becomes VERY legalistic and goes beyond the mark with the rules.
It’s always about Jesus and keeping the first two commandments. 🙌🏻 ❤️
@rachelnelson8518
The problem here lies in the fact that the whole foundation of Lds teachings is based on an unstable foundation which is rooted in Masonic teachings mixed with a little Christianity. The opportunity for craziness to flourish in the Lds church is vast, mostly based on the basics of what Joseph and his supporters believed. And what the earliest Lds church taught and continued to morph into its current tradition. You can’t deny that crazy didn’t happen early in the church just because the current president and administration tries to whitewash history and redirect it to only the current narrative. History aka “HIS story” always belongs to the one with the most voice…or views…or money…but eventually the real story always rises to the surface and becomes truth.
She would relate a bit to the book “The Glass Castle”. Coming from a Mormon family of 13, we went through so much trauma as children and young adults. This book helped me see just how dysfunctional my upbringing was so that I never repeat it with my own children.
I'm going to read this, thank you for the suggestion! I'm glad you found something to help you on your path to healing ❤
It’s a beautiful movie as well
I just went to look at it-and it makes sense the comparison to an alcoholic parent. The placing religion or alcohol or drugs over the welfare, education, and loving relationship for children is a shared trauma across all that dysfunction.
Was thinking the same thing.
Yes, you are right, I did very much relate to the "Glass Castle".
I was exactly the same with being the "good girl" with my mom. Also, my husband was never patriarchal or misogynistic. He wanted an equal partner, as well. But, what she is describing about being obedient and second class to men is called "internalized sexism", and I had it as bad as she did!
I was so happy to hear how supportive and loving your husband is with all this! Speaking your truth is a good thing as it gives others the strength to do the same. Keeping family secrets keeps you sick with them.
Absolutely!
You are raising great questions about CPS. As a teacher, I can tell you that we report things ALL the time. CPS is so overbooked and so lacking real solutions that the entire system is a mess. Keep fighting and keep voting for better systems because only then can we really have the resources to support kids in tough situations.
LOVE your tag, learningisnotquiet - you are likely an amazing teacher in a system that does not often recognize the realities of childhood and learning. Kudos to you.
I grew up in foster care, and from watching this I realized how that happened for my brother and sisters. It was my fault, I blabbed in a conference room with my siblings and honestly answered questions because everyone else was older and wasn’t talking…..I had no idea until hearing her speak about her experience that I possibly got us all taken away from my dad. We were poor and my mom had died. He struggled and sometimes we didn’t have heat. But he loved us and we always felt taken care of. We should t have been taken away. It just made all of our lives harder.
Hi Nicole, I’m so sorry to hear that. Please don’t blame yourself. I’m sure there were many other factors that went into it. You were just a child ❤️
CPS breaks good families up instead of helping them. I hope you haven't lost contact with your siblings and your dad.
Were you able to reconnect with your family? I’m so sorry this happened to you and your siblings! It’s crazy that sometimes the children who really need help are left in abuse and loving families are separated. This wasn’t your fault. I pray you are comforted and blessed.
@@birdybirdy846 exactly. Taking kids from loving families because they are poor while paying foster parents to raise them will never make sense to me.
@@Dusty_Den right! Why not help out the families with that money. This system is ancient, not to mention highly abusive, corrupt, aaaand a ineffective. I’m tired of the excuses, “oh not enough funds, oh not enough workers, oh too many kids, not enough foster families…” listen, everything and everyone else should be put aside during budgeting, the children deserve priority. We are not short on social workers, or money, or foster parents, we are short of willing politicians. I hope everyone calls their current representative and demands that they start prioritizing the foster system. A random policeman shouldn’t have power over social workers while they are investigating a child abuse/neglect case. That’s obstruction of Justice! The children suffer as a result. And the social workers should have a system of checks and balance. Because I hear too many stories where they see the abuse and still decide all is well because “the parents love their kids” or “the house was vacuumed.” They shouldn’t be social workers if they can’t actually do the job effectively. Lastly, it should be obvious to share police reports with the foster system to always have the necessary details (recently heard of a case of CSA and the children called and reported abuse but the social workers would show up not having checked the previous workers notes or the police reports so the kids stayed with their father who routinely abused them. I hate that this isn’t a requirement. Children truly deserve more and our society has abdicated their village obligated to the welfare of its children
Thanks so much for sharing your story! I’m from a fundamentalist Christian background and I’m so amazed that it’s Mormon sisters who are helping me grapple with my own deconstruction! Thank you so much for your vulnerability and being so open! ❤
I am ex-Catholic and they are deconstructing me at 50! So grateful
It’s kinda same same but different, and that difference gives space for you to see reflections in your own life
@@HannahMitchell-Art yes this! I’m very thankful to feel self sovereignty. It’s a struggle at times but no regrets only love.
@@HannahMitchell-Art BRAVO!! ❤❤
I never realized how much church scarred me and was culty until I started listening to these stories. It was too far off tbh. My family was kind, caring, and supportive tho. They did instill the fear of god in me. And I still catch myself askin “am I going to hell?” When I do something “wrong.”
Rachel's and Tara Westover's story really resonated hard with me. I was raised by a single mom who was a follower of Roy Masters. He was a one man show cult in Los Angeles in the 1960s and '70s. He and his followers eventually moved to southern Oregon and raised all kinds of hell up there in the 80s.
It was all the same thing. I was pulled out of school after elementary school, I was hit by a car one time and got no medical treatment, there was no hot-water or heat in the house even though we were living in an apartment in Los Angeles. It wasn't an organized religion, it was like a mixture of pop psychology, right wing politics, mysogynism and various conspiracy theories.
It almost doesn't matter what kind of religion it is; when taken to an extreme, they're all pretty much alike.
Interesting, when you google Roy Masters, it says he was a writer along with a list for other things and then Hypontist....scary. Sound like he was getting right into mind control. You're right, anything in extreme is not good. I am always looking for a balance.
Ooph. Watching this and realizing that the way I feel is depression, that I can't leave my job because of how I was conditioned as a child hits really hard. I've been an atheist since I was 12, but my mom is very religious and everything I did and continue to do has always been measured through the lens of what she thought was acceptable. I have been feeling suicidal, sleeping everyday after work, and just feeling like there is no way out. I know I wasn't the intended target, but I have been able to cry and think through why I'm so stuck for the first time in years. Thank you so much for this.
Hi Janet, thank you for sharing that. I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I’m happy that this video was even a little bit helpful to you in your journey. I had a guest named Calvin who mentioned when he was at his lowest he called a suicide prevention hotline and it saved his life. I’ll link his episode below in case you’d like to watch it. If not, know that it CAN get better, and awareness is key. I believe there are people out there who would love to help you and get you on a happier track. ❤️❤️❤️
ruclips.net/video/F8rKj809Avo/видео.html
I hope you're able to find a way to get some help friend 💜💜 it doesn't have to be like this. It can be better. 🫶🫶
Get some help love, it gets better!!
Sometimes when you are in it, it feels like you will never get out of it. You can't do it by yourself. It will feel so good to talk to someone, just like how you shared here. You need to allow yourself to get help, you are worthy of love, and to be happy. A counselor can give to life skills that maybe your family didn't know how to. I was almost 30 before I learned what boundaries really ment. And it doesn't mean you just have to put up walls but you decide what you want and others have to respect that. ❤ Please get help.
Your not suffering. Paul suffered. Peter suffered. James David Matthew. Mary suffered . her son was executed in a most terrible way .before her eyes. It's ok. Many are called....
Rachel is such a great speaker! I loved the part where she began to appreciate the strangers at the grocery store. It's one of the best spiritual experiences to appreciate the people around you even if you don't know them. It reminds me that religion isn't the only way to connect to the universe.
You are such a great interviewer! You are doing a wonderful job!
Thank you!!
Exmo here thank you so much for this conent it means so much! My parents talked about the last days more then the other mormon families i knew. Not to this level but still weird so i did relate to the whole glorifying the doomsday belief to cope with being taught such scary reality at such a young age
❤️❤️❤️
Omg when she used the term "family cult" it all clicked for me. And then when she started talking about rubbing her dad's feet....this just brought up so many memories that clicked for me. Thank you so much for sharing your story!
I really liked Rachel. She came across as intelligent, thoughtful, kind, warm and lively. You did great, Rachel. You told your story very well.
One of the most amazing woman I ever heard speak! Realizing leaving the church to Get Well, wow, I can relate..love this woman..
I have been binge watching your interviews/discussions for a little over a week now and this has been my favorite thus far. What a wonderful person Rachel is. So open, honest and genuine!
I was born and raised Catholic and see a lot of similarities in the conditioning, shaming, self blame and even self loathing. Better to infiltrate young, impressionable minds once their spirit is broken.
I still have what I would liken to a PTSD response to these memories especially about Catholic school and Sunday services.
My relationship with God grew stronger when I walked away from the church.
Hi! Welcome to C2C and the rabbit hole! 😁 I hope you have found peace and happiness ❤️
Me, too.
I have been hard core bingeing your videos over the past couple weeks too! I have no experience with any of it but I like hearing peoples stories of overcoming. You have a really dope channel.
This took so much courage! Thank you for doing this episode. It shows how not only religions can be high demand, but some of our family members too. Will definitely read her book if she publishes one. I'd love to know about the details of how she grew up.
absolutely, would love to read the book.
@@marianboudreau1337 BIBLE is the only book which:
heals, guides, judge, warns, helps.
Bible guides souls out from Babylon.
Bible helps to let go from Babylonian entertainments.
Bible helps us see, what has value.
Bible fills souls with knowledge, with peace.
Bible clears out future, for both, for the saved and for the lost.
Bible gives us stories from which to learn, and through which GOD warns us, the generations lived after.
Don+t stay muslim, catholic, Hindu, new ager, atheists, ignorant, satanic, Mormons,
dont be a thief and a robber.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Religions are masonic lies, false ways into heaven which masons have made.
Follow not nor believe masons, who give you lies after lies.
Seek out CHRIST, follow HIM and leave lies behind and your old life in the BABYLON:
Revelation 17:2
With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Revelation 18:3
For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Oh Rachel I feel for you soooooo much. I have gone down the anxiety and depression path a few times. I totally understand how you are not able to go on the churches grounds. I understand how it can effect you the way it did and does and I feel for you. You are a strong wonderful amazing person, mom, wife, sister and daughter. It will get easier I am sure.
@@theharshtruthoutthere You definitely missed the message. But you do you.
I can't drive past a latter-day temple without feeling sick inside.
Rachel and Shelise, that was amazing. I have no experience at all with the cult experience or as you call it "high demand religions", but I find all of your stores so fascinating - and certainly eye-opening. You are providing an amazing service for so many people. Yay you!!
Thank you, Marian! 😁🙏
Marion, I agree with you 💯% I am blown away by these stories. Shelise and her interviewees are so courageous. ❤
Thank you so much to Rachel for sharing her story. This really did remind me of Educated, and it makes me wonder how many others are out there who also have this intersectionality of extremism with Mormonism- I think it's probably a lot more than we would think. Also, major props to Shelise! I'm so glad I found your podcast. Thanks for taking the time to help share these important stories and thanks for the organization of your videos!
Thank you, Aubrie! I’m so happy to shed light on these groups! Just as Rachel said, there isn’t a lot of representation with this specific sect of Mormonism. I’m proud of her for sharing
Thank you Rachel so much for being so honest and open while sharing the best and worst of you. You have come through the other side. You sound happy and mentally healthy. The better you are the better your family is. The better your life is. You’re wonderful.
❤️🙏
Omg! I grew up in doomsday Mormonism! I didn't even know this is a thing! I thought my family was just super weird compared to the rest of the mormon families 🤯
😁 the more ya know, right? Im learning every single day!
This is one of the best episodes for me yet! So much food for thought, and Rachel is so nice to listen to!
Her inner core was telling her to get out and save herself. So amazing that she has a loving and supportive husband. I’m so glad you listened to your inner voice and are working on you.
Wow. This video helped me process things I didn’t realize I still needed to process. Thank you Shelise and Rachel for so clearly articulating your experiences with Mormonism. I might actually send this to some active Mormons in my life, this is so well fleshed out and authentic. It inspires me to talk more so I can impact others the same
Wow! Very impressed with both of these incredible women. Rachel, keep following that amazing heart of yours. Shelise, you’re really good this. What meaningful work you’re doing. Keep going! 🙏
Thank you so much!😁
Hi Shelise 👋. I love your channel. It's really as simple as that. Real stories, real people, and realisations. Rachel- wow, you're going to be someone's 'she did it' person, and i think the inspiration title is rightfully deserved. Godspeed.❤❤
This is a wonderful interview. Rachel, you are a brave, beautiful and courageous person. Shelise, I was thinking you might want to interview Michelle Dowd, author of FORAGER, who grew up in an apocalyptic cult and learned to live off the land. It's a beautifully written book, really evocative and powerful. Rachel, I hope you write a book too. I will be happy to buy it!
She has a powerful story. She is so beautiful. I usually don’t have patience to listen to an interview this long. Fascinating to learn about the Mormon culture. God bless you both.
Hi, I must say THANK YOU for these interviews......It has helped me even though I was not in a cult but in a narcisistic marriage for 28 years, strangely alot rings true in my married life .
This has help me not to blame myself even after 10yrs after my divorce as I noticed a lot of patterns were similar.❤❤❤❤
I’m so happy the channel has been helpful!❤️
Hi Rachel! I have been waiting for this episode to air! I was informed by the Beauty that is your elder sister! What a powerful profound interview. I learned so much. The precision in articulating the difference between critical thinking and simply taking new information and manipulating it to match or fit one's current belief systems (false or not) was brilliant. Just one of the many pearls I received from this episode. Thank you Shelise for your purposeful impactful work towards humanity. I appreciate both of you young ladies .
Thank you, Robin! I love your excitement. Thank you for such a supportive and thoughtful comment. ❤
I’ve gotta tell you, I check my shows every day. I saw that one of them was two hours long and I thought, “what? Two hours?” Not today.
So, I checked YOU. I saw the show was 2+ hours and thought, “ok, I could watch shelise for a couple hours😂”. Apparently, I’m Shelise preferred!!!
Hahah I love that! 😂🥰 it’s our first episode that’s longer than an hour and a half. People asked for longer ones so here we go! 😁
fr i knew it was going to be good when i saw it was a long one 😂😂
I am a 68 year old mom/grandma and am here to tell you that I am proud of you! It is very hard to move beyond the disfunction. I have and continue to be there. Sadly, it most often requires leaving family members “behind “as you work to break the cycle of disfunction for yourself and your family/children. Everyone has their own “truth “ and sadly they often feel personally threatened when you challenge their beliefs/truths. That said, be strong! The future is bright and your children/husband deserve a strong healthy you!
Shalise, I have been looking at a lot of different you tube videos of coming out of cults. I really appreciate your style of interviewing of ex cult members. Thank you for what you are doing!
This is why your channel is so important, Shelise. I greatly appreciate the honesty expressed. It's very thought provoking. As I am listening to Rachel talking about her struggles with suicidal thoughts, I can't help but think about how many people this candid interview is helping as so many people can probably relate. ❤
It made me so happy that leaving didn't break up her family, after all the mess of her childhood finally she gets to have a nice family life!! She's so sweet, wish her all the best!
Congratulations on getting free of the high control and all the expectations that are heaped up on those of us that were raised in it. Welcome to your new and wonderful life 🎉
Thank you Rachel for sharing such a difficult story with grace and confidence. You’re a badass! And Shelise, your compassion and understanding is incredible!
The dad sounds like undiagnosed severe mental illness, all culty stuff apart. I'm glad you made it out, you seem to be in a good place now so I hope you can really heal from all that❤
I was looking for this comment
Honestly it's extremely possible for someone to be perfectly sane and still have crazy beleifs like this. It does sound like you'd have to be insane, but you do not.
He might have had some personality disorder, but not even necessarily that. But that's speculative. Also it's not mental illness, it's two different things.
Came here to see if anyone else picked up on this. It really sounds like her dad adopted a lot of LDS mythology into his delusions and paranoia.
100% sounds like he was suffering from serious delusions and even some hallucinations. I would bet he would be diagnosed with a serious mood disorder if he had gone out to seek help. Something is definitely not right with him.
Especially if he really was having visions and the things described here it's likely so 😔
Thank you for sharing even though it was difficult. I was so moved by your husband choosing you again and again. Love and respect in action now, rather than this weird future faking, really is an eye opener. I am so so grateful that you made it through that.
Edit: Also, I really love how long this video is. There was a lot to cover and I'm glad that you didn't cut it down.
Thank you so much!
Thank You for sharing your story. I think you are so smart and well spoken. I’m glad you were able to distance yourself from this harmful influence and find happiness for you and your family. Kudos also to your supportive husband.
Wow! She is awesome. She endured so much trauma from being such a severely neglected and parentified child in a horrific cult mentality to enduring yet more religious trauma as an adult. I’m so happy for her and her family that they were able to deconstruct ❤
Yes the religious trauma is so unhealthy on a person's mental health.
I wasn't Mormon, but I related SO MUCH to this. So many things were so familiar. It will never stop being crazy to me that all of these cults / controlling religions have such similarities and cause such similar effects on parenting and whatnot.
It is amazing that Rachel survived. Shame and guilt are not healthy. Perfectionism destroys people. You have a long way and you intuition is right on for you. Use your voice to continue to stand up for you. I have hung up on people who tried to shame me. You can do the same. And if someone does it in person, walk away, go somewhere else. You are a brave woman and I am very proud of you.
Our local community college, a part of the NY State University system, offers a program for homeschooled high schoolers that my kids attended. They take classes at the college with college kids, it costs 1/3 the tuition per credit ($50 instead of $150), and once they complete 24hrs of core courses (math, lit, history, science, humanities) & 3 electives, they automatically get their ged. My oldest started when they were 13, graduate at 15, and took 2.5 more semesters before transferring to uni in Austin TX at 17yr. In NY you can’t obtain your ged until you’re 17, and bc my oldest was accepted into their program at 16yo, they never got their ged diploma until after getting their bachelor’s degree bc an employer required it. It was really wild. My youngest kid decided to slow track thru the program and finished with his ged at 18yo. It is really a fantastic program, plus they are nearly 1/2 way to an associates degree/transfer program at the end of high school.
I love that there's more options these days, I had a very hard time in public school, a lot of people did. I would have loved something like what you describe, thanks for sharing 😊
How much you girls are relaxed at the end of your conversation. The release is palpable even through the site. Thanks for your thoughts.
Hi Rachel ! 🙂 Thank you for telling us your story :-) For having the courage to to put it out there. It is my prayer that whoever hears your truth will be saved from the same fate. 😭😭😍
From Julia Butterfly Hill's amazing, nearly two years long living on top of her beloved ancient redwood named Luna to save her from being cut down by a greedy, destructive lumber corporation to yes, all trees should be cut down and destroyed because it was prophecied that it would happen and we don't want to slow down the arrival of the doomsday.
This really hurt.
This was such an intense and truthful interview, just listening to Rachel felt like a catharsis. Thank you both. You are amazing.
Wow, what an amazing woman, mother and wife. Rachel please know how much your story and life means to all humans. Struggles with our faith, family, community, etc... can be so mentally and physically damaging over the long run. I hope you and all your family continue to receive healing, kindness, joy and happiness together as you walk this path. Your light is so beautiful, Thank You for sharing it here! 💜💜💜
This interview made me feel very seen with my own journey with an unusual form of Mormonism and family dynamics. Thank you for your time and bringing this to light and how it can affect someone.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love your channel Shelise. Your interview skills are great. The stories are fascinating.
Thanks so much for sharing your story and being so candid.
I’m an older non-Mormon woman and I have been transfixed by Rachel’s story. After listening for the last two hours, I wish I could give her a long hug.
Thank you so much Rachel. You are so brave and so good to see you free at last. So interesting.
Thanks Rachel, you did a wonderful thing, sharing your story. It was your story to tell. Your family members have their own stories and they can tell theirs however they want to but they should leave you alone, about yours. Thank you Shalise, another great interview.🤗
i love that college was a safe space for rachel’s family!!! it’s like a slice of the real world for them, that’s awesome
In defense of CPS in this situation, it's really not good for families to break them up just because they're poor. It doesn't actually help the kids, and is just another way of criminalizing poverty. They were probably working with her parents to help them get access to more assistance. Being poor isn't the same as being abusive and we really don't want to have a system where we're destroying families because of poverty.
Yes absolutely, when there is love there and no actual abuse going on it's generally considered better to try to help the parents to improve their situation for the children.
Watching the Misery Machine, would be my suggestion to you. I don't have much faith in Cps. As a child cps only collected money, it's obvious to me they didn't give a damn about me
beautifully worded!
Poverty isn't abuse unless you're not actively trying to get to a better place
Thank you so much for sharing Rachel
I love watching the interviews it makes it easier to understand the mind sets of the people involved in these things and be more understanding and supportive of those that choose to walk away from them
Thank you for sharing this incredible story. I related to your Yavapai College learning. So much of what I heard was that your Dad had his issues, but many aspects also pointed to some possible mental health problems. Thank you for being brave!
When it comes to CPS, it really depends on the state what exactly they will do. Things like neglect and abuse (Physical, verbal/emotional, sexual.) is all kind of difficult to prove. But, with Rachel's situation they may have felt circumstances were not dire enough to remove them from the parents, and put them in the already over run system. On a general basis, social services wants families to stay together so they can grow up safe and content. Social workers themselves are seriously overworked and often underpaid, like with many careers of working with the public, burn out is stupidly common. Source- Quite a few family members that worked in the various sectors of Social work, in both government services as well as private organizations.
This is on the money, it depends on the state.
Ot just for social services, even for lawinforcement it can be diffecult to prove abuse. The proof is often circumstancial.
This is my favorite interview you’ve done!!
Gosh Rachel what a time of it! So appreciate you sharing such tricky, black hole topics. You did such a great job of getting it over and I fully see there is so much more to each area you spoke of. There is a common thread with these religions/parents and fanatics that who you are is not enough. Then they miss the most amazing bit of humanity that we are all individual and each person has their own characteristics that are special but these dominant people want to sit on those inbuilt-natural-diamonds and they want you to be something different. If only they could see to encourage and nurture what is special in each person. I think you also have one deep ingrained thing that nearly all the people who 'escaped' have, you are truthful and honest and as such in the end the only thing that can happen is that you will have a 'shaking day' (aboriginal term for a day where life takes a new path) and you see that the religion or person doesn't have a truthful foundation and you can't live with lies. But now you can live for you, and your children and husband - it's not selfish, it's just living a life! All the best to you & yours xx
Rachel, you are brave and not alone. Secrets eat us up inside, and they always find the light. Best to let them out to release from the grasp. And you are right, there are so many more people out there that have a similar situation, and you are 100% helping those who feel they are not safe to leave yet. Much love ❤
Thank you for sharing your story! I think it is so beautiful that you have been able to find some peace by following your own intuition. I think you are so brave for being true to yourself. I have a different background than you but I am relating to certain aspects of your story. I think it is an amazing reminder that being yourself and working through life with honesty and transparency is such a universal thing. And it’s hard!!! Wishing you and everyone going through this situation some peace and healing.
Thank you Rachel!! Your deconstruction was like mine and not like mine at the same time lol: the guilt, shame, secret-keeping, feeling like it’s your fault and then realizing that by skipping church a couple of sundays how much better I felt🤯😂You’re a great story-teller and feel free to write a book!!!
FANTASTIC EPISODE thank you so much for sharing I learned so much which helps my own head and heart heal and my husband children and the real me thank you tremendously ❤️
There's a peace that will settle over you once you've spoken your truth. It's NOT easy or comfortable but necessary for your own mental health! I'm proud of you for sharing such difficult and painful, private things. It helps us understand and hopefully become more compassionate and loving humans!
Not only do I feel like I knew families just like this from growing up in Mormonism, but the core cognitive dissonance she speaks of with her views re: science and faith and such feels just like my family's world view growing up (just we were less extreme and conspiratorial). Thank you for sharing your story!
Definitely really appreciating this channel, it's helped me recontextualize, deconstruct and process some the trauma I had of growing up trans and queer in Mormonism
I feel like I heal a little bit with every episode I watch of this channel. I learn that I'm not alone in the crazies of the cult experiences and how the aftermath effects you so profoundly. Thank you for creating a safe place for people to heal with these conversations with such brave and beautiful people like Rachel.
I am enjoying your channel so much, learning so much, even though I was not raised in a cult, I have been involved in many cult like organizations, groups.any group , organized religion eventually becomes cult like, unspoken rules. I am amazed at you and your quests for being such strong people, moral people. , and so dedicated to finding your own truth. It’s easier to go along and not think for yourself.
Rachel, thank you so much for your bravery and honesty. I could relate to so many nuances of your experience.
This was such a beautiful interview.
Yay for all of us being free to live our lives.
Much love!
💜
I find it so ironic that you point out that your religious life doesn't HAVE to be so hard, because that was exactly the way I felt when I started dating my husband after being in an abusive relationship. At first it was kinda terrifying because you're waiting for the other shoe to drop, since that's all you've known. In the end, though, peaceful relationships and interactions, whether romantic or religious or something else entirely, those are the healthy ones.
Thank you very much Rachel for sharing your experiences and Shelise for arranging these interviews and conducting them so well and with so much compassion ❤️ I was typing a very lengthy comment about how I’m worried my family might be going down a similar doomsday route and about my personal experience learning to think for myself and use my own moral compass etc. when my phone died 🥲 I don’t think I can retype all that so I’ll just say thank you for the video and that I loved what Rachel said about living to the beat of your own drum, because I’ve had a bit of a harrowing experience doing so but I never stopped because it’s just too important not to give yourself up to the tyranny. Much love 😊
Thank you, Christina! I hope your family doesn’t get too sucked in.
As do I 😅 I don’t think there’s any way they’ll become like what this video is about (polygamy would be a huge no… I think, and no one’s ditching hospitals) but the whole moving to an ultra conservative state to buy land on which to build a multi family homestead with a bomb shelter and a host of other WWIII/last days preparations is giving me pause.
As always, so good to see you, Shelise, and your guests! 🤗
Thank you for your guest and this episode, it helps me feel less alone!
Such a great story of awakening! Rachel's story is very inspiring and real. I appreciate her bravery in speaking out so others can also find their true consciousness. Great stuff!
Omg thank you so much for sharing Rachel. I 💯 relate to taking the “medicine “ thinking it will solve the depression and anxiety but it all only getting worse. When I left Christianity it was the same way. I had decided to take a break so I could have space to think for myself and then I realized I was feeling and doing a little better. My depression, anxiety, and my mental health all together was beginning to improve. It’s such a hard thing to grapple with when you’ve dedicated your whole life this one purpose but that is the thing making you the most “sick”.
Thank you so much for doing this podcast. It has and is helping me so much in my deconstructing journey.
Great episode, thanks Rachel!! You go with your intuition, it is def leading you in the right direction!
Thank you for being vulnerable and telling your truth. It has made a big difference as another survivor of doomsday mormon belief system
❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for another interesting interview. You and your huxband do a wonderful job. I learned a lot about different cults by listening to you.
How incredibly articulated! It’s so helpful to hear this.
Been binge watching your channel but this interview is epic ! Amazing. She must write a book
Thank you for watching! Welcome to C2C 😁❤️
Thank you for sharing Rachel. This was an amazing episode. You seem to be such a beautiful and kind person. I am so glad that you managed to become as kind to yourself as you always were to others. ❤
I am so sorry that all of these church experiences were so traumatizing to you and I command you for doing the right thing for yourself and, in the end, becoming a better model to your children (not by leaving the church, but by putting your me talk health before anything else).
I just discovered your channel and it's been quite the day of bingeing. As a Provo ex-LDS, I feel waay to many of your experiences personally. I am the proto-typical apostate that seems to come up occasionally. I'd love to converse with you outside of the comments section, if your schedule allows. Thank you for your candor.
I appreciate you both and your insights I’m a recovering Catholic and really understand the freedom of just learning to trust yourself and your instincts . It is such a process I’m 76 and still a work in process ❤😊
Me, too on the ex-Cath and still doing the work @ 76.
"Do what is right, let the consequence follow"
Thank you for doing what's right regardless of what might come from family. Sending you love!
When you grow up in a cult, and your parents decide the cult just isn't extreme enough.
That’s heavy man
Thank you both so much!❤
Michelle thank you for being so brave in sharing your story ❤️.
I would be so afraid of backlash. You are very brave! Maybe I will have a little more courage to be open and vulnerable
❤️
I know your channel talks about some heavy stuff and I love to learn that's why I'm here but I have to compliment you on the sound quality of your videos it is perfection
Another great interview!! Thank you 😊
This was one of the best episodes. I truly love this podcast as it gets me a huge insight in american life sadly. I am from Stockholm Sweden were cults are rather rare cause of how secular we are. Sending love and thanks to both of you ladies for sharing and and being such strong rulemodels just by being you! ❤🎉❤
Thank you for your support! Sweden sounds amazing 🙌❤️
Wonderful episode - thank you Rachel! Maybe Rachel didn't want to talk about it but I'm really curious about the overlap with her parents' teaching and the Lori / Chad Daybell teachings.