Nice work mate! Following from Australia. Can't wait to see this project come to life. I'm currently working on converting a Joyner dune buggy to electric after upgrading a few of my kids toys.
I built a 2007 CR450 using the Electric & Co kit and a 3700 KW battery. Mine weighs 228lbs. It came out great and I prefer riding it compared to my gas bikes. I am interested to see how your battery comes together. Please do a range test video after you complete your build. 👍
Can’t wait for the build series. Going to be sick. I was dreaming about trying to get my hands on some Catl solid state pouches and building a pack from that. But I may still be a few years out. Can’t wait to see this machine built. It may just make me jump on board and build something similar to your bike in the intern.
I agree with you 100% on building a better E moto then present manufacturers. I have 2 now one being a Talaria and have an Altis on the way. I have ability to build my own but without the time and tools needed (welder, cutters and drill presses) this can be quite tough for most in my position but I think you have a great build ahead of you and i am going to be tuning in for it! Can’t wait to see it start!
@ i appreciate the reply, and I would be in tune for that also! I think it’s great to see people building to higher limits and pushing the manufacturers to put a little more into what they release. Big props and can’t wait to see how this machine fairs out! Thanks Blacksheepengineering!
I’m liking those copper nickel battery end plates, and CNCing those battery cell plates is probably stronger than 3D printed you see in most battery self builds.👍 Subscribed and liked, curious to see how this pans out, as electric bikes are the best bangs for bucks electric vehicles in my eyes, good luck.
With the 7kWh pack, my guess from very similar builds with 4kWh packs at 240lbs is that you will end up with a bike that is over 260lbs, but we are not spandex wearing road bicycle weight weenies! This is dirt bikes and this build looks awesome!! 100
Haha the goal is to stay under 260 so it weighs less than the Varg with more battery than the EX Varg. I think we can make it happen. The battery is built very efficiently with very energy dense 21700 cells.
Sounds exciting! Best of luck and hope it works out! I'll be keeping an eye on the build and if it works, might even try and replicate it. Just a bit of feedback, please get a decent microphone, the sound isn't great atm, but it is a quick and cheap fix.
Thanks! I hope you do! Thanks for the feedback, I didnt want to hurry and buy all the expensive equipment so feedback on the things that are needed the most is very helpful. I'll research what options are good. How is the volume? Thats something I can adjust separately from the mic.
@@BlacksheepEngineeringthanks for your comment! The volume is quite low, I'd say you could bump it up quite a bit. You could get a wired or wireless microphone and connect it to your phone, record the sound with the phone using a free app and then marry the video and sound in editing software.
Very interesting indeed... i do some singletrack in northwest Montana and near Bonners Ferry Idaho on a Beta 300RR and have ridden a modded Ultra Bee briefly. I've been contemplating converting a YZ with the Electro & Co. Kit or getting a UB and trying to leave it mostly stock... I'll be watching what you do for sure, thanks for documenting.
I also was contemplating the kit from electro and co but ended up avoiding it for a few reasons like: 1. Too low of voltage to run high watts reliably and efficiently because of the needed amps. (Same reason for not using the EBMX X-9000 controller) 2. The EM-260 controller is not easily tunable, they tune it for what they think everyone wants and hope it works. (I'm too picky) 3. No battery options with enough capacity. Even the battery thats $1500 extra is only 5.7KWH 4. The weight is positioned high and forward which make the bike feel much heavier than it is. 5. For about the price of the base YZ-E kit,(including the price of my donor bike) I'm going to have significantly more range, tunability, quality, efficiency, and power. I'll dive more into this in later videos. I am a fan of their upgraded qs138 motors, and I do like them as a company. Thanks for commenting, I hope to hear what you try out!
I am very interested to see where this goes. I will be following. I don't agree with your baseline evaluation of the stark varg range for hard Enduro or even single track riding. But the weight is undeniable. Having a lighter bike would be better. I am about 220 lb with my gear on and with my Stark varg set up for hard Enduro I can do 40 mi consistently of technical single track and I can easily do 25 mi of hard enduro riding with it out here in Colorado. I am interested to see if you do a head-to-head comparison of the two. Regardless, I am excited to see where this goes and applaud your efforts and I do think the DIY market will be very interested to do a lot of this stuff. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Varg, that seems much better than any other account I have heard. What power level are you running? Have you done anything to it? I have been wondering, since almost everything I see on all the forums for the Varg is negative, there must be a whole lot of happy customers that just aren't sharing their good experiences. Hearing yours seems to coincide with that. If I could get a 40 mile singletrack ride out of one I'd be a lot more on board. Yeah, I don't think there is a way this journey ends without a head to head comparison when the bike is done. Thanks for following along!
@BlacksheepEngineering I usually run around 32-35 horsepower and then bump it up for certain cases to around 38-40 hp. I did change my gearing to 13-51 for more acceleration. I think stock was 13-47. That helped a little with range. I am also running mousses, full wrap hand guards, aluminum disk guards and a few other protection bits. So it's even a bit heavier than most folks run. I have kept detailed logs of every ride since I got the bike. I've got 28 recorded rides tracking the length of ride and how much battery I used during the ride. The cold definitely affects the range as well as really steep long climbs. I'll admit I have one recorded ride where my calculated range for 90% battery usage was only 15 miles. But most of my hard enduro days hover around 25-30 miles estimated range if I used 90% battery. I rarely do use 90% battery on those day because I get tired. But the calculation is based on the battery usage for the time I am riding then I calculate how much range I would have if I did use 90% battery
@@reeserides9371 Thanks for tracking that! Very cool to hear. It has to be the power level. Thats what I had seen a lot before, in dropping it from 60 or 80 down to 45 it wasnt as terrible, but it looks like dropping it to 40 or below makes it pretty great, combined with slightly lower gearing. That puts my 50hp peak bike in the range of finding the sweet spot if it comes out similar.
Stark future did claim that they were going to deliver a 240 lb bike initially. But then they changed their marketing information when they made the battery more dense before they released it initially. Their latest claims about weight are right on to the mark of what people are weighing their bikes at. So the starkvark ex should weigh exactly what they say, which is basically the same as the MX version
That will be interesting if it does only weigh 5lbs more. What would be the reason for buying the MX? Maybe they have just refined some stuff and they'll come out with a lighter MX version that is more in line with the weight they initially promised.
@@BlacksheepEngineering can you log volts and amps with the parts you're assembling? It would be great to see a log of light 10 min ride. Then a high power rugged ride. Etc.
@@jaredharvey1511 I'd love to have you as a resource in the facebook group I just started then. Nothing in there yet but I've invited a couple people with questions to join and post about their builds. Heres the link: facebook.com/share/g/1A1CQZ2Mxh/
I totally get what you mean with the Varg’s power, the most powerful bike I’ve ever ridden was a worn out 250 two stroke and that was plenty of power for me so if I built a bike like this I don’t think I’ll need anywhere near 80 horsepower. I would probably use the fardriver 108450 controller (270 line amps) with a custom 30s li-ion battery, which would be 39hp. I would probably use that same BMS that you have. What charger is that? I’ve been looking for a good one for a while now. I don’t think the Fardriver controllers can do variable regen, it’s either on or off. One last thing, those cell continuous current ratings are for a single cell, so they don’t really apply if you cram hundreds of them together. The battery pack will definitely heat up unless you have some kind of cooling fan system that blows cold air through the battery. I recently built a 20s20p pack with 10a continuous discharge 18650s, and I’ve determined that I can’t even do 5a continuous per cell when discharging the pack without the center of the pack reaching over 120 degrees F. I thought I would give you a heads up since you seemed pretty confident that the only thing that might overheat is the motor.
@ It’s possible that it’s continuous, to estimate how hard the cells are working we can work backwards from 80hp. To get watts we multiply 80*745.7=59,656 watts. The Varg battery has 100 cells in series which would be 360 volts nominal, so we divide the watts by the voltage to get the current: 59,656/360=166 amps. The Varg has 4 cells in parallel, so divide the current by the number of parallel cells to get the current per cell: 166/4=41.5 amps. The Varg uses 45 amp continuous cells, so that’s 92% of the cell’s continuous discharge. Normally I would say that would definitely not let the whole battery pack be 80hp continuous, but the Varg battery has a good design where the negative end of all the cells are thermally connected to the aluminum shell of the pack that acts like a heatsink, so maybe on a cold day you could do 80hp continuous.
Thanks for the input, I hope you start a build too. I havent seen that decreased discharge ability from series connections before, I'll definitely have to see if that shows up here. Each cell has a 45 amp peak discharge and 25 amp continuous. I will only be pulling 26-27 max at full tilt which I doubt I'll even get to much. It will be something to test though. For the regen, I thought I had saw in the specs for this controller that it was variable. I'll definitely check now though. Thanks for bringing that up. This charger is a modified R4875G1 from EleCharger. I cant say if I'd recommend it or not yet but it was recommended to me by a couple guys on the endless sphere forum. It only goes up to 118v so it couldnt do 30s.
@@Calthecool Does anyone know the continuous power, cause if it's 80HP that's crazy. I believe its unlikely that they would do 80HP though, that means the battery would drain in about 10 minutes. If you stayed on max load. My guess is 80HP is its peak.
Good point, I'm a little scared at this point since I don't want to advertise these parts to anyone before I test them. They "should" be the best options but they could be garbage for all I know without testing. I'll definitely be going into detail on build sheets after I get it finished and know the final build sheet.
All the concepts offered are valid. Interested in the settings you end up using on the FarDriver. 28s is what the too heavy Zero bike I have runs, but have been using 20 or 22s with EBMX X9000 on my builds which honestly is plenty of power on trails for my skill level. Is there three wires (potentiometer device) built into that lever or two wires for a switch? I've been looking for a three wire brake lever besides the $12 one from the cheap scooters that sells on Amazon that doesn't have the hydraulic system so the feel isn't good but it works for variable amount of regen great. I would use the handle to actuate the caliper as well so it could hold the bike in place at a stop and loading up the bike etc. if it has three wires, but I get it people like their foot brake they are used to; I just never rode dirt bikes before and electric made all this fun accessible for me without the noise, stank, top end rebuilds, plus cheating by always being in the right gear. People can store a bike like you are building in their apartment if need be; so awesome.
I think the one that came with that lever is a 2 wire so I'll probably end up using the port for a pressure transducer. If you do make a setup with regen-over-manual brake on one lever, please let me know how it goes. Very interesting, seems like it would be hard to tune how much the regen comes on before applying the actual rear brake. I like the foot brake set up just for keeping it separated and easy.
Hey good luck on the build i am really looking forward to seeing the build and final product , youre on point with the whole range thing tho thats a major factor , i currently have a talaria mx5 for trail riding and im impressed but would love more range its like the grail . Arctic leopard make a great bike i hope your build will surpass that . Like i say really looking forward to following this along best of luck 👍
Thanks! Yeah I tried a modified sur ron once. Ended up being towed behind a KTM 300 for 3 miles... The Arctic leopards do seem to have the most impressive range of any New bikes. It would be awesome to beat them at range.
I have two questions, do you think it's possible to fit in there 28s 15p? You mentioned your currently at 14p. And also you didn't show or mention if it is hot swappable the battery. Curious on that
1.Yes, you could absolutely fit that in this frame. Probably even more than that. I only limited mine where it is because of weight. 2.It is not even a little bit hot swappable lol. I am very concerned with power efficiency and I couldn't find any connectors that could take this level of amperage without voltage drop so the leads come straight out of the battery and bolt onto the controller. I also hate battery boxes that the battery can wiggle in so Im building in bolt-on mounts to the battery case.
@BlacksheepEngineering ok thanks for the clear up, I'll wait for the next video hopefully to see you moving up the battery within the frame to get a better idea. Wish you the best
electric bikes (and ebikes) are game changing technologies because the power unit is just so damn simple when compared to ICE. there are also major investments being made into batteries and the power units that we all benefit from. i think the only bit of real innovation that will remain is going to be in the software experience (controllers, phones for hud etc). truly an exciting time for everyone who loves this space. stark is going to have to own the "luxury" segment because surron and 100 small indy companies are going to battle it out for the low/mid market segments which is going to be enough for 90% of people.
I hope to see and be apart of much more battery innovation too. Its exciting to see how quick its gotten so much better. Once we can get the range in line with these new 2 stroke bikes I think our community will grow an incredible amount.
Come on Brian (likely spells it Bryan since he wants to use suron batteries) wake up bro. Your buddy has you covered. Don’t be that guy. F-Brian. (Did that for you, I don’t like negative comments I reserve all negativity for those directly in my life. LOL). Great build I’d probably do on a shifter cart so I could focus on learning more vs struggling with dirt bike geometry then go dirt bike since I’m a noob at 0 stroke builds.)
Im new to EV conversions, so sorry if this is a dumb question. But is there a reason hub motors arent used more on Electric motorbikes? Would mean heaps more room for batteries and stuff
That's not a dumb question at all. The feel is very different. They work great in a lot of situations but for dirt bikes you want them to be light and snappy. Hub motors have a lot of rotating mass. Rotating mass has a huge negative effect on that feeling. Even ounces can make a difference. There may be other reasons too, but that was the big gate keeper for me.
Theres a company in China that makes them custom, based on the CAD you send them. I'm working on the battery build video that covers what I did exactly.
I'm not sure what the laws are like down there. I will say, I had to import most of my parts from Asia so its gotta be easier to get those at least. You just might have to assemble it upside down.
I've got a 2008 YZ250 chassis and just purchased a Surron Storm Bee motor and gearbox. I've seen Surronster run this setup on 128v on mobility scooter. I think if I can get a 120v battery and a controller that's suitable for the voltage, that I may have a bike with similar handling and on par power with the Stark without the stupid phone (that won't allow you to turn the bike back on again if the phone doesn't have receptor it won't log you in to your Stark account - that's death in Australia). Anyway, my thought is that you can't really achieve the max power and top speed without the gearbox and having much higher voltage. It's not about battery kWh rating it's the voltage that gives you the power output?
Sounds awesome! I'd love for you to share updates as you do this build. It will be very fun to compare specs, I bet it will turn out sweet. This qs138 V3 I got has an internal gear box to bring the ideal powerband down to the range of a stock sprocket so I should be able to dial it in with off the shelf sprocket options. Yeah, kWh just measure the capacity. Your Voltage decides your top speed, Phase amps decide your acceleration. Yeah I've heard lots of horror stories about the stark computer system. Can be cool but not the thing for me. I started a facebook group I'd love for you to post more about your build in, links in the channel bio. Thanks!
The fardriver ND961800 that I showed in the video is capable of 1800 phase amps but its limited by what the motor can draw. The goal is to be able to fully saturate the motor and tune back the phase amps until the acceleration is where I want.
@ I just watched the whole video. It was really good and I like how you explained the connector issue and how you have to hardwire the battery to the controller. I will definitely be following to see more updates on the bike. Please keep posting videos and updates on the build I’m very interested in it
I built a 2020 CRF with the same motor but a different controller (EM260). Buying the motor/controller direct from the factory was about $600. You can buy an custom Amorge battery cheaper than you can build one. The 4.2 kwh battery I bought in a sealed metal box was $1250 shipped (hasn't arrived yet). I think a hot swappable 4.5 kwh battery is the better approach than a single larger one. If you are trail riding it's enough to do 25 miles at a "B" pace. If you are riding moto it's enough for a moto at which point you can swap and charge. You also ditch 25 or so lbs. You will probably be just north of 250 lbs with the battery you have planned. I wouldn't be too worried about max power unless you are riding sand mx. I built my bike for woods/single track and never really use the max power mode as the initial torque hit was too much, think stronger than an uncorked ktm 500 (76v/400 amp). Also note that most the online testing on the 50S cells indicate a lower discharge than what Samsung published. I went back and forth but chose the 50S cells for my smaller battery knowing I'll be mostly in tight woods and likely won't draw enough to drive up temps. If you are using as much power as planned you'll most likely want to liquid cool the controller. I've been able to get away with a fan and have it mostly sealed up in the airbox.
I chose the single big battery because I want to get as far into the back country as I can on each ride like I do with gas bikes. I cant pack another battery with me so hot swappable doesn't make sense for me. I also know how much inefficiency is built into cheap batteries like that and I wanted to maximize range by avoiding all voltage drop. That system is great for motocross type riding though where you never get that far from the truck. To address the other concerns: -My peak power will be about 20 amps from the max discharge claimed on these each of these cells so I shouldn't have any issues with those. -My controller is rated for 800A line current and I'll be pulling less than half of that. Thats the reason I got the huge ND961800. I've heard of a lot of people having controller overheating issues and didn't want to be one of them.
cant wait for that battery build ....detailed battery build ..... and cant wait to guy my 07 kx250 smoker and sell off my kx 450..... electric is the shit
If that's a Surron 2 x hall sensor throttle you'll have the dreaded er114 problem . They're overly sensitive or just poorly made so much so brushing you hand across the throttle body when it's having a tantrum will cause the engine to partially fire up ( plus lose reverse , running on with closed throttle , failure to engage drive ) I'm looking for a replacement , possibly Domino so if someone / you have any suggestions ...
Great insight, thanks! I'll have to do more research on that. If reliability is what you're looking for, The gas bike throttle with the frame mounted actuator is probably the way to go. Sounds like I may end up with one too lol
a stark varg competitor can absolutely be built for less however the stark has one advantage and that is that is is running 360v nominal, higher voltage allows a crappy 18650 or 21700s with poor c rating to be less of an issue which also means less sag, slightly better efficiency and a cooler running system over all, 80hp is easily achievable with 20s if you use high c rating lipos but it will never have the same run time
Higher voltage does help for sure. In the months I spent planning this build I found its actually harder to get the wiring and connections solid enough to avoid voltage sag than it is to find good enough cells. I was originally going to use electro and co's 76v system but there was no way to do it without any voltage sag and efficiency is a huge deal on this build. At 96v I still have almost 400Amps to deal with which is more than any connector I could find is rated for.
seems like a cool video, unfortunately I can't hear a single thing audio is too low. I don't want to turn it up because when i get hit with an ad it would be so freakin loud. I liked and subbed hopefully you can release one with louder audio??
Haha thanks for the feedback, that is helpful. I will be looking into a new mic and adjusting the volume levels better. Its dumb you're even getting ads. My channel isn't monetized. Guess they gotta make money any way they can. Thanks for joining!
I'd be worried about the regen with battery being at 100%, there is not much room for it since your battery is 117,6V at full charge and the controller can handle only 120V
Agreed. Luckily I can use the BMS to regulate the Regen so it shuts it off when its within a set range of what I tell it is max charge. Since regen is not super effective for actually generating power, I doubt there will be much time without the regen brake.
i opened this video, normalised compressed and limited the audio part, amplified it, and it actually sounds decent. please process your audio before uploading. the original at -22 dB is very quiet
Hey dude, i have a couple questions to ask about a build im planning on doing soon, let me know where I should send the specs/questions (its really long so it might be better to email you or something like that).
Hey perfect timing, I just made a Facebook group for things like this. You can be the first one to post your build! Heres the link: facebook.com/share/g/1BDxiMj15b/
That things sick! 104mph is wild. I definitely want to do a street build. Its not as much of a thing here in Idaho as it is in Baltimore haha our roads are too crappy. Just subbed!
@@BlacksheepEngineering Ayye I appreciate you my guy! Looking forward to seeing your build too I'm only running the ND96850 rn...this summer ill grab the 1800 and see what happens lol
@@nogasdash Oh yeah I'd love to see how much acceleration you gain. I just started a forum to talk about cool builds like that too. facebook.com/share/g/15Z7evLJyK/
Nice build tho but your battery is going to be the weak point. But good luck I guess your stuck with them cells unless you have money to buy better ones and maybe sell them or use them for a less powerful build. Keep an eye on temp of them cells plz.
I did a lot of research before starting this build. The continuous ability of the battery is around my peak load. The peak ability is over double. Definitely not my weak point. If I used those cells in a smaller configuration then I could see your point but they wont be pushed anywhere near their limit here.
@BlacksheepEngineering sounds epic bro i would definitely be there to post my build. Once i'm ready i had to rebuild my bike due to her recent accident
The ease with which you bash the Stark Varg and believe your build will be superior is fascinating. Stark does not claim the bike weighs 24x pounds. That was their target and the weight of the prototype. They clearly state it weighs 260 pounds. Now you neg the bike because it has more power than most people need. The user can program exactly how much power they want in several different modes that can be changed on the fly. It's pretty incredible really. It sounds like you've never ridden one. No, it's not the perfect single track bike...unfortunately yours won't be either. The perfect bike would likely have a clutch. I wish you luck on your build but it sounds like you don't have enough personal experience with the bikes out there to be making some of these claims. Your bike isn't even built yet but based on your title it's already better than everything else on the market?!?!?!?
300lbs seems a bit high. I can see the dual sport bikes you mentioned being 300 but the common range for the race and enduro bikes is more around 250. I'd stick with those bikes for a build.
Please share your experience and the specs of your build. You definitely can make one worse than the Varg. Pretty wild to assume all custom builds are as bad as yours though lol. If weight, ride time, and rideability are not what you think make a bike good, is it reliability? If so, go look at a stark forum. They're pretty dismal on the reliability front too. I'm interested to hear your argument here.
I love your build and also have a converted crf250 with a qs138. I dont like how you have literally rubbished the stark so much, there is no need and it's pretty clear the stark has been an inspiration for your build. Appreciate that stark have an entire team and R&D backing them and have taken years to develop it. It uses top of line components and has been engineered solely to be an electric bike and therefore has no compromises. In comparison, the new model runs 100s4p molicel p50b cells and a motor and gearbox designed for this purpose, whereas you and me are using a cheap chinese motor from aliexpress. Less hating on the stark please. Love the build, particularly your battery, and I think it will be an amazing bike.
@@michaelfila2796 Thanks. Stark is great and I love what they've done for the market. It does seem like I'm bagging on them a lot but its not for the fact that I dont like them. Just want them to do better. The fact that we can compete with (and possibly beat) them using cheap Chinese parts makes me want to push them harder. The fact that they came out with the enduro version tells me they listen to our complaining so in my eyes its worth continuing to complain. I like to receive the same criticism too. It helps us get better. Thanks for pointing out how much its coming off as hate. I'll make sure to set it right moving forward.
Ok. I don't think you did because this isn't the "normal" conversion? Try about double the voltage compared to the stock EBMX kit lol. Yours was likely their 72 volt kit.. Not 120v like this beast 😲
Sorry, but what do you mean you send the same exact voltage to the motor when battery drains? If your battery is let's say at 116v then you are sending that voltage to the controller and in consequences that will be the voltage on the motor once it reaches it's maximum rpm(for the given voltage). Anyway, I'll be following your build as your claim is pretty pretentious. I think a lot of people focus just on pure specs, but also forget about integration and build quality as well as how refined the bike feels. When it comes to fardrivers they are not the most refined and tunable controllers. But their reliable and cheap
As the battery drains, the voltage drops. So the max voltage you can send to the controller is lower. My controller does not send out more than 96v, so for the time my battery is above 96v, the peak power to send to the motor is the same. Once the battery is below 96v the controller will be sending out a peak power of whatever the battery voltage is at. I do not mean to be pretentious, and I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm just trying to convince more people to build their own bikes by showing what we can achieve. As far as build quality and integration, these are things I have thought about and planned extensively. For instance, I arranged the whole assembly in the bike based on perfect weight positioning since its so common for the weight to end up high and forward on electric bikes. I modeled the whole bike in CAD so I could do weight positioning calcs to make the balance as similar to a gas bike as possible but with the weight a little lower since it will weigh a little more. There is always a likelihood that any of these estimates are incorrect, but its not pretentious to make them and attempt to achieve them. To me it seems more pretentious for someone who has not seen the effort put in, to assume they know more about the situation.
@BlacksheepEngineering I don't think that the controller can do a step down of the voltage coming out of the battery. So if the initial voltage is 116v then that's what the controller will be putting to the phase wires minus the voltage sag across the whole system. I might be wrong though, I am not an electrical engineer. Also I think samsung 50s is not the best choice of cells for such a high power application. Yes Samsung claims 25a continuous, but realworld test prove its only about 17a. At 25a samsung 50s will heat up very quickly and the resulting energy output will be much smaller than molicell p45b. I understand that you will be using around 300 line amps, possibly more. your 70ah battery will be struggling to provide such currents and will be heating up and sagging a lot. Also, are you sure th qs138 will handle such power?
Nice work mate! Following from Australia. Can't wait to see this project come to life.
I'm currently working on converting a Joyner dune buggy to electric after upgrading a few of my kids toys.
Thank you! Sounds like an awesome project!
I'm a simple man with extra parts. I see an electric dirt bike build, I like before I watch 🙏
This is one of the most supportive communities I've seen. Glad to be apart of it!
I cannot wait to see the finished product!!
cant wait to see how the build goes!
Thanks! I'm very excited. Working on the next videos now!
I built a 2007 CR450 using the Electric & Co kit and a 3700 KW battery. Mine weighs 228lbs.
It came out great and I prefer riding it compared to my gas bikes.
I am interested to see how your battery comes together.
Please do a range test video after you complete your build.
👍
Nice! Impressive weight! How much capacity does it have? Definitely will do.
I just started a forum to share builds like this, I'd love for you to share yours. facebook.com/share/g/1ACk3U3K4a/
Can’t wait for the build series. Going to be sick.
I was dreaming about trying to get my hands on some Catl solid state pouches and building a pack from that. But I may still be a few years out.
Can’t wait to see this machine built. It may just make me jump on board and build something similar to your bike in the intern.
Thanks! I would love to try out pouches on a later build too. Sad that its so hard to get ahold of reliable ones right now. I hope you do!
I love this idea... Would love to convert an old bike to electric!
Hopefully by the end of this build you'll start one too!
Man, you have some confidence in this, love to see where it goes.
Thanks, we'll see if my math is correct here soon
I agree with you 100% on building a better E moto then present manufacturers. I have 2 now one being a Talaria and have an Altis on the way. I have ability to build my own but without the time and tools needed (welder, cutters and drill presses) this can be quite tough for most in my position but I think you have a great build ahead of you and i am going to be tuning in for it! Can’t wait to see it start!
Thank you! Thats a good point, I'd love to follow up with another build that specifically avoids using any of those tools.
@ i appreciate the reply, and I would be in tune for that also! I think it’s great to see people building to higher limits and pushing the manufacturers to put a little more into what they release. Big props and can’t wait to see how this machine fairs out! Thanks Blacksheepengineering!
Good luck mate, can't wait for pt 2. Keep up the great work!
Thank you! Working on it now!
Yep this will be cool! Thanks for posting, I look forward to the build
Thank you!
This is going to be interesting. Can’t wait to see.
very cool, been hoping someone would do this for a while now. good luck with the build!
Thanks! I'm excited to see how it ends up!
I’m liking those copper nickel battery end plates, and CNCing those battery cell plates is probably stronger than 3D printed you see in most battery self builds.👍 Subscribed and liked, curious to see how this pans out, as electric bikes are the best bangs for bucks electric vehicles in my eyes, good luck.
Thank you! I hope you enjoy!
I have a Suzuki 85 that I want to do this to. Can't wait to see how you do it!
Nice! Please let me know when you do, I love hearing about cool builds.
I have the same exact thing I got a qs 138 motor and a noisy cricket controller
With the 7kWh pack, my guess from very similar builds with 4kWh packs at 240lbs is that you will end up with a bike that is over 260lbs, but we are not spandex wearing road bicycle weight weenies! This is dirt bikes and this build looks awesome!! 100
Haha the goal is to stay under 260 so it weighs less than the Varg with more battery than the EX Varg. I think we can make it happen. The battery is built very efficiently with very energy dense 21700 cells.
Sounds exciting! Best of luck and hope it works out! I'll be keeping an eye on the build and if it works, might even try and replicate it. Just a bit of feedback, please get a decent microphone, the sound isn't great atm, but it is a quick and cheap fix.
Thanks! I hope you do! Thanks for the feedback, I didnt want to hurry and buy all the expensive equipment so feedback on the things that are needed the most is very helpful. I'll research what options are good. How is the volume? Thats something I can adjust separately from the mic.
@@BlacksheepEngineeringthanks for your comment! The volume is quite low, I'd say you could bump it up quite a bit. You could get a wired or wireless microphone and connect it to your phone, record the sound with the phone using a free app and then marry the video and sound in editing software.
@@jackt3603 New mics on the way! In the mean time for the next couple vids I'm working on I'll turn up the volume as much as I can.
Very interesting indeed... i do some singletrack in northwest Montana and near Bonners Ferry Idaho on a Beta 300RR and have ridden a modded Ultra Bee briefly.
I've been contemplating converting a YZ with the Electro & Co. Kit or getting a UB and trying to leave it mostly stock... I'll be watching what you do for sure, thanks for documenting.
I also was contemplating the kit from electro and co but ended up avoiding it for a few reasons like:
1. Too low of voltage to run high watts reliably and efficiently because of the needed amps. (Same reason for not using the EBMX X-9000 controller)
2. The EM-260 controller is not easily tunable, they tune it for what they think everyone wants and hope it works. (I'm too picky)
3. No battery options with enough capacity. Even the battery thats $1500 extra is only 5.7KWH
4. The weight is positioned high and forward which make the bike feel much heavier than it is.
5. For about the price of the base YZ-E kit,(including the price of my donor bike) I'm going to have significantly more range, tunability, quality, efficiency, and power.
I'll dive more into this in later videos.
I am a fan of their upgraded qs138 motors, and I do like them as a company.
Thanks for commenting, I hope to hear what you try out!
Endless Sphere forum is definitely the best! 😁
F for Bryan, Ditch the square and let this dude build you a big sexy!
Great video, Looking forward to seeing the end results.. I just subscribed
Thanks! Happy to have you along!
I am very interested to see where this goes. I will be following. I don't agree with your baseline evaluation of the stark varg range for hard Enduro or even single track riding. But the weight is undeniable. Having a lighter bike would be better. I am about 220 lb with my gear on and with my Stark varg set up for hard Enduro I can do 40 mi consistently of technical single track and I can easily do 25 mi of hard enduro riding with it out here in Colorado. I am interested to see if you do a head-to-head comparison of the two. Regardless, I am excited to see where this goes and applaud your efforts and I do think the DIY market will be very interested to do a lot of this stuff. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Varg, that seems much better than any other account I have heard. What power level are you running? Have you done anything to it? I have been wondering, since almost everything I see on all the forums for the Varg is negative, there must be a whole lot of happy customers that just aren't sharing their good experiences. Hearing yours seems to coincide with that. If I could get a 40 mile singletrack ride out of one I'd be a lot more on board.
Yeah, I don't think there is a way this journey ends without a head to head comparison when the bike is done. Thanks for following along!
@BlacksheepEngineering I usually run around 32-35 horsepower and then bump it up for certain cases to around 38-40 hp. I did change my gearing to 13-51 for more acceleration. I think stock was 13-47. That helped a little with range. I am also running mousses, full wrap hand guards, aluminum disk guards and a few other protection bits. So it's even a bit heavier than most folks run. I have kept detailed logs of every ride since I got the bike. I've got 28 recorded rides tracking the length of ride and how much battery I used during the ride. The cold definitely affects the range as well as really steep long climbs. I'll admit I have one recorded ride where my calculated range for 90% battery usage was only 15 miles. But most of my hard enduro days hover around 25-30 miles estimated range if I used 90% battery. I rarely do use 90% battery on those day because I get tired. But the calculation is based on the battery usage for the time I am riding then I calculate how much range I would have if I did use 90% battery
@@reeserides9371 Thanks for tracking that! Very cool to hear. It has to be the power level. Thats what I had seen a lot before, in dropping it from 60 or 80 down to 45 it wasnt as terrible, but it looks like dropping it to 40 or below makes it pretty great, combined with slightly lower gearing. That puts my 50hp peak bike in the range of finding the sweet spot if it comes out similar.
23:50 f in the chat for Brian
Very interested in how you build the battery, thats what im doing with an MX550 right now
That just happens to be what I'm working on right now! Very excited.
I just started a forum to share builds like this, I'd love for you to share yours. Link is in my page description.
Stark future did claim that they were going to deliver a 240 lb bike initially. But then they changed their marketing information when they made the battery more dense before they released it initially. Their latest claims about weight are right on to the mark of what people are weighing their bikes at. So the starkvark ex should weigh exactly what they say, which is basically the same as the MX version
That will be interesting if it does only weigh 5lbs more. What would be the reason for buying the MX? Maybe they have just refined some stuff and they'll come out with a lighter MX version that is more in line with the weight they initially promised.
What is the typical / average energy needs? Basically how big of a small generator do you need to keep the battery charged? How to make it a hybrid?
That is a good question. Once I have it built I can see how much amps it pulls. That would be a fun build to see.
@@BlacksheepEngineering can you log volts and amps with the parts you're assembling? It would be great to see a log of light 10 min ride. Then a high power rugged ride. Etc.
@@jaredharvey1511 I know I can read it real time. Shouldnt be hard to figure out how to chart it from there. Will be fun to play with.
@@BlacksheepEngineering how electrical are you? I've got a BS in electro-mechanical. If you have electrical questions feel free to ask.
@@jaredharvey1511 I'd love to have you as a resource in the facebook group I just started then. Nothing in there yet but I've invited a couple people with questions to join and post about their builds. Heres the link: facebook.com/share/g/1A1CQZ2Mxh/
I totally get what you mean with the Varg’s power, the most powerful bike I’ve ever ridden was a worn out 250 two stroke and that was plenty of power for me so if I built a bike like this I don’t think I’ll need anywhere near 80 horsepower. I would probably use the fardriver 108450 controller (270 line amps) with a custom 30s li-ion battery, which would be 39hp. I would probably use that same BMS that you have.
What charger is that? I’ve been looking for a good one for a while now.
I don’t think the Fardriver controllers can do variable regen, it’s either on or off.
One last thing, those cell continuous current ratings are for a single cell, so they don’t really apply if you cram hundreds of them together. The battery pack will definitely heat up unless you have some kind of cooling fan system that blows cold air through the battery. I recently built a 20s20p pack with 10a continuous discharge 18650s, and I’ve determined that I can’t even do 5a continuous per cell when discharging the pack without the center of the pack reaching over 120 degrees F. I thought I would give you a heads up since you seemed pretty confident that the only thing that might overheat is the motor.
Is the stark varg 80HP, continuous or peak?
@ It’s possible that it’s continuous, to estimate how hard the cells are working we can work backwards from 80hp. To get watts we multiply 80*745.7=59,656 watts. The Varg battery has 100 cells in series which would be 360 volts nominal, so we divide the watts by the voltage to get the current: 59,656/360=166 amps. The Varg has 4 cells in parallel, so divide the current by the number of parallel cells to get the current per cell: 166/4=41.5 amps. The Varg uses 45 amp continuous cells, so that’s 92% of the cell’s continuous discharge. Normally I would say that would definitely not let the whole battery pack be 80hp continuous, but the Varg battery has a good design where the negative end of all the cells are thermally connected to the aluminum shell of the pack that acts like a heatsink, so maybe on a cold day you could do 80hp continuous.
Thanks for the input, I hope you start a build too.
I havent seen that decreased discharge ability from series connections before, I'll definitely have to see if that shows up here. Each cell has a 45 amp peak discharge and 25 amp continuous. I will only be pulling 26-27 max at full tilt which I doubt I'll even get to much. It will be something to test though.
For the regen, I thought I had saw in the specs for this controller that it was variable. I'll definitely check now though. Thanks for bringing that up.
This charger is a modified R4875G1 from EleCharger. I cant say if I'd recommend it or not yet but it was recommended to me by a couple guys on the endless sphere forum. It only goes up to 118v so it couldnt do 30s.
@@Calthecool Does anyone know the continuous power, cause if it's 80HP that's crazy. I believe its unlikely that they would do 80HP though, that means the battery would drain in about 10 minutes. If you stayed on max load. My guess is 80HP is its peak.
@@Pizza-xi3fs I don’t know, if I were to guess it’s probably over 40hp
Lookin forward
Should put a part list in the description.
Good point, I'm a little scared at this point since I don't want to advertise these parts to anyone before I test them. They "should" be the best options but they could be garbage for all I know without testing. I'll definitely be going into detail on build sheets after I get it finished and know the final build sheet.
@@BlacksheepEngineering Yeah I was kinda looking for some of the more well-known parts, like the fardriver or maybe the motor
@@Tarkov. The controller is the ND961800 and the motor is the qs138 70h v3 from electro and co
All the concepts offered are valid. Interested in the settings you end up using on the FarDriver. 28s is what the too heavy Zero bike I have runs, but have been using 20 or 22s with EBMX X9000 on my builds which honestly is plenty of power on trails for my skill level. Is there three wires (potentiometer device) built into that lever or two wires for a switch? I've been looking for a three wire brake lever besides the $12 one from the cheap scooters that sells on Amazon that doesn't have the hydraulic system so the feel isn't good but it works for variable amount of regen great. I would use the handle to actuate the caliper as well so it could hold the bike in place at a stop and loading up the bike etc. if it has three wires, but I get it people like their foot brake they are used to; I just never rode dirt bikes before and electric made all this fun accessible for me without the noise, stank, top end rebuilds, plus cheating by always being in the right gear. People can store a bike like you are building in their apartment if need be; so awesome.
I think the one that came with that lever is a 2 wire so I'll probably end up using the port for a pressure transducer. If you do make a setup with regen-over-manual brake on one lever, please let me know how it goes. Very interesting, seems like it would be hard to tune how much the regen comes on before applying the actual rear brake. I like the foot brake set up just for keeping it separated and easy.
F for Bryan! 😂
Hey good luck on the build i am really looking forward to seeing the build and final product , youre on point with the whole range thing tho thats a major factor , i currently have a talaria mx5 for trail riding and im impressed but would love more range its like the grail . Arctic leopard make a great bike i hope your build will surpass that . Like i say really looking forward to following this along best of luck 👍
Thanks! Yeah I tried a modified sur ron once. Ended up being towed behind a KTM 300 for 3 miles... The Arctic leopards do seem to have the most impressive range of any New bikes. It would be awesome to beat them at range.
I have two questions, do you think it's possible to fit in there 28s 15p? You mentioned your currently at 14p. And also you didn't show or mention if it is hot swappable the battery. Curious on that
1.Yes, you could absolutely fit that in this frame. Probably even more than that. I only limited mine where it is because of weight.
2.It is not even a little bit hot swappable lol. I am very concerned with power efficiency and I couldn't find any connectors that could take this level of amperage without voltage drop so the leads come straight out of the battery and bolt onto the controller. I also hate battery boxes that the battery can wiggle in so Im building in bolt-on mounts to the battery case.
@BlacksheepEngineering ok thanks for the clear up, I'll wait for the next video hopefully to see you moving up the battery within the frame to get a better idea. Wish you the best
I’m in Washington.. it’s a few of us that have Honda 250r electric
Awesome! I'd love to hear more about it!
I just started a forum to share builds like this, I'd love for you to share yours. Link is in my page description.
electric bikes (and ebikes) are game changing technologies because the power unit is just so damn simple when compared to ICE. there are also major investments being made into batteries and the power units that we all benefit from. i think the only bit of real innovation that will remain is going to be in the software experience (controllers, phones for hud etc). truly an exciting time for everyone who loves this space. stark is going to have to own the "luxury" segment because surron and 100 small indy companies are going to battle it out for the low/mid market segments which is going to be enough for 90% of people.
I hope to see and be apart of much more battery innovation too. Its exciting to see how quick its gotten so much better. Once we can get the range in line with these new 2 stroke bikes I think our community will grow an incredible amount.
Subscribed. What state are you in? This is awesome. A lot of expertise involved in this. Ready for pt 2.
I'm in Idaho, sometimes ride in Utah. Thanks for joining!
Come on Brian (likely spells it Bryan since he wants to use suron batteries) wake up bro. Your buddy has you covered. Don’t be that guy. F-Brian. (Did that for you, I don’t like negative comments I reserve all negativity for those directly in my life. LOL). Great build I’d probably do on a shifter cart so I could focus on learning more vs struggling with dirt bike geometry then go dirt bike since I’m a noob at 0 stroke builds.)
lol nailed the spelling🤣I'd love to do a cart too!
gonna subscribe based on the video title alone 🤩🤩
Haha glad to have you along!
Im new to EV conversions, so sorry if this is a dumb question. But is there a reason hub motors arent used more on Electric motorbikes? Would mean heaps more room for batteries and stuff
That's not a dumb question at all. The feel is very different. They work great in a lot of situations but for dirt bikes you want them to be light and snappy. Hub motors have a lot of rotating mass. Rotating mass has a huge negative effect on that feeling. Even ounces can make a difference. There may be other reasons too, but that was the big gate keeper for me.
Where did you order the bussbars from? I'm building a CRF250R using the same motor.
Theres a company in China that makes them custom, based on the CAD you send them. I'm working on the battery build video that covers what I did exactly.
Any way to do this in australia?
I'm not sure what the laws are like down there. I will say, I had to import most of my parts from Asia so its gotta be easier to get those at least. You just might have to assemble it upside down.
@@BlacksheepEngineering 🤣alr, I'll try.
I've got a 2008 YZ250 chassis and just purchased a Surron Storm Bee motor and gearbox. I've seen Surronster run this setup on 128v on mobility scooter. I think if I can get a 120v battery and a controller that's suitable for the voltage, that I may have a bike with similar handling and on par power with the Stark without the stupid phone (that won't allow you to turn the bike back on again if the phone doesn't have receptor it won't log you in to your Stark account - that's death in Australia). Anyway, my thought is that you can't really achieve the max power and top speed without the gearbox and having much higher voltage. It's not about battery kWh rating it's the voltage that gives you the power output?
Sounds awesome! I'd love for you to share updates as you do this build. It will be very fun to compare specs, I bet it will turn out sweet. This qs138 V3 I got has an internal gear box to bring the ideal powerband down to the range of a stock sprocket so I should be able to dial it in with off the shelf sprocket options. Yeah, kWh just measure the capacity. Your Voltage decides your top speed, Phase amps decide your acceleration. Yeah I've heard lots of horror stories about the stark computer system. Can be cool but not the thing for me. I started a facebook group I'd love for you to post more about your build in, links in the channel bio. Thanks!
@BlacksheepEngineering ruclips.net/video/D052oHsDYMw/видео.html
1800 phase amps sounds like it’s gonna get really hot. What controller are you running for that?
The fardriver ND961800 that I showed in the video is capable of 1800 phase amps but its limited by what the motor can draw. The goal is to be able to fully saturate the motor and tune back the phase amps until the acceleration is where I want.
@ I just watched the whole video. It was really good and I like how you explained the connector issue and how you have to hardwire the battery to the controller. I will definitely be following to see more updates on the bike. Please keep posting videos and updates on the build I’m very interested in it
@@naughtyvlogs2524 Thank you! I'll be dropping the next one soon!
I built a 2020 CRF with the same motor but a different controller (EM260). Buying the motor/controller direct from the factory was about $600. You can buy an custom Amorge battery cheaper than you can build one. The 4.2 kwh battery I bought in a sealed metal box was $1250 shipped (hasn't arrived yet). I think a hot swappable 4.5 kwh battery is the better approach than a single larger one. If you are trail riding it's enough to do 25 miles at a "B" pace. If you are riding moto it's enough for a moto at which point you can swap and charge. You also ditch 25 or so lbs. You will probably be just north of 250 lbs with the battery you have planned. I wouldn't be too worried about max power unless you are riding sand mx. I built my bike for woods/single track and never really use the max power mode as the initial torque hit was too much, think stronger than an uncorked ktm 500 (76v/400 amp). Also note that most the online testing on the 50S cells indicate a lower discharge than what Samsung published. I went back and forth but chose the 50S cells for my smaller battery knowing I'll be mostly in tight woods and likely won't draw enough to drive up temps. If you are using as much power as planned you'll most likely want to liquid cool the controller. I've been able to get away with a fan and have it mostly sealed up in the airbox.
I chose the single big battery because I want to get as far into the back country as I can on each ride like I do with gas bikes. I cant pack another battery with me so hot swappable doesn't make sense for me. I also know how much inefficiency is built into cheap batteries like that and I wanted to maximize range by avoiding all voltage drop. That system is great for motocross type riding though where you never get that far from the truck.
To address the other concerns:
-My peak power will be about 20 amps from the max discharge claimed on these each of these cells so I shouldn't have any issues with those.
-My controller is rated for 800A line current and I'll be pulling less than half of that. Thats the reason I got the huge ND961800. I've heard of a lot of people having controller overheating issues and didn't want to be one of them.
cant wait for that battery build ....detailed battery build .....
and cant wait to guy my 07 kx250 smoker and sell off my kx 450.....
electric is the shit
Electric is a whole lot of fun. I hope to see you do a build!
If that's a Surron 2 x hall sensor throttle you'll have the dreaded er114 problem .
They're overly sensitive or just poorly made so much so brushing you hand across the throttle body when it's having a tantrum will cause the engine to partially fire up ( plus lose reverse , running on with closed throttle , failure to engage drive )
I'm looking for a replacement , possibly Domino so if someone / you have any suggestions ...
Great insight, thanks! I'll have to do more research on that. If reliability is what you're looking for, The gas bike throttle with the frame mounted actuator is probably the way to go. Sounds like I may end up with one too lol
a stark varg competitor can absolutely be built for less however the stark has one advantage and that is that is is running 360v nominal, higher voltage allows a crappy 18650 or 21700s with poor c rating to be less of an issue which also means less sag, slightly better efficiency and a cooler running system over all, 80hp is easily achievable with 20s if you use high c rating lipos but it will never have the same run time
Higher voltage does help for sure. In the months I spent planning this build I found its actually harder to get the wiring and connections solid enough to avoid voltage sag than it is to find good enough cells. I was originally going to use electro and co's 76v system but there was no way to do it without any voltage sag and efficiency is a huge deal on this build. At 96v I still have almost 400Amps to deal with which is more than any connector I could find is rated for.
@@BlacksheepEngineering Amp SurLok Plus connectors up to 500A. Not cheap but work well.
my 100 Ah e ride pro ss 1.0 gets a lagit 90 miles range
Thats sweet! 100Ah is a big battery. What voltage?
I just started a forum to share builds like this, I'd love for you to share yours. Link is in my page description.
F for brian!
seems like a cool video, unfortunately I can't hear a single thing audio is too low. I don't want to turn it up because when i get hit with an ad it would be so freakin loud. I liked and subbed hopefully you can release one with louder audio??
Audio is fine for me even without headphones. maybe yours is turned down somewhere
Haha thanks for the feedback, that is helpful. I will be looking into a new mic and adjusting the volume levels better. Its dumb you're even getting ads. My channel isn't monetized. Guess they gotta make money any way they can. Thanks for joining!
@@carsonevans4252 Thanks for the feedback, were the ads still louder than the video on yours? Seems like I need to adjust it to match those better.
@@BlacksheepEngineering I have an adblocker so I didn't get ads luckily
I'd be worried about the regen with battery being at 100%, there is not much room for it since your battery is 117,6V at full charge and the controller can handle only 120V
Agreed. Luckily I can use the BMS to regulate the Regen so it shuts it off when its within a set range of what I tell it is max charge. Since regen is not super effective for actually generating power, I doubt there will be much time without the regen brake.
i opened this video, normalised compressed and limited the audio part, amplified it, and it actually sounds decent. please process your audio before uploading. the original at -22 dB is very quiet
Hey dude, i have a couple questions to ask about a build im planning on doing soon, let me know where I should send the specs/questions (its really long so it might be better to email you or something like that).
Hey perfect timing, I just made a Facebook group for things like this. You can be the first one to post your build! Heres the link: facebook.com/share/g/1BDxiMj15b/
LETS GOOO!!!! I TELL PEOPLE THIS ALL THE TIME! Good content my guy! I built a 96v 100ah motorcycle myself check it if u have time😎😎
That things sick! 104mph is wild. I definitely want to do a street build. Its not as much of a thing here in Idaho as it is in Baltimore haha our roads are too crappy. Just subbed!
@@BlacksheepEngineering Ayye I appreciate you my guy! Looking forward to seeing your build too I'm only running the ND96850 rn...this summer ill grab the 1800 and see what happens lol
@@nogasdash Oh yeah I'd love to see how much acceleration you gain. I just started a forum to talk about cool builds like that too. facebook.com/share/g/15Z7evLJyK/
Nice build tho but your battery is going to be the weak point. But good luck I guess your stuck with them cells unless you have money to buy better ones and maybe sell them or use them for a less powerful build. Keep an eye on temp of them cells plz.
I did a lot of research before starting this build. The continuous ability of the battery is around my peak load. The peak ability is over double. Definitely not my weak point. If I used those cells in a smaller configuration then I could see your point but they wont be pushed anywhere near their limit here.
dirtygarageguy is missing out
F for Brian you need tot let him build you a bigger battery you need more umpf then that ultra bee battery!!!
Ya how is about to buy a new bike and then realized it was cheaper to build one
BUILD ONE!!!
@BlacksheepEngineering i am, i'm currently upgrading my own bike
@@bulkierpanda133 Nice! I just started a facebook group to share builds if you're interested, the link is in the channel bio.
@BlacksheepEngineering sounds epic bro i would definitely be there to post my build. Once i'm ready i had to rebuild my bike due to her recent accident
The ease with which you bash the Stark Varg and believe your build will be superior is fascinating. Stark does not claim the bike weighs 24x pounds. That was their target and the weight of the prototype. They clearly state it weighs 260 pounds. Now you neg the bike because it has more power than most people need. The user can program exactly how much power they want in several different modes that can be changed on the fly. It's pretty incredible really. It sounds like you've never ridden one. No, it's not the perfect single track bike...unfortunately yours won't be either. The perfect bike would likely have a clutch.
I wish you luck on your build but it sounds like you don't have enough personal experience with the bikes out there to be making some of these claims. Your bike isn't even built yet but based on your title it's already better than everything else on the market?!?!?!?
Its all in light fun. Stark makes a great bike. I didn't mean to offend.
Don't use ktm. Most gas bikes are 300lb. Klx, crf, drz are 300 or more. Yamaha was just under 300.
300lbs seems a bit high. I can see the dual sport bikes you mentioned being 300 but the common range for the race and enduro bikes is more around 250. I'd stick with those bikes for a build.
nope..done the conversion..its not better than a Stark
Please share your experience and the specs of your build. You definitely can make one worse than the Varg. Pretty wild to assume all custom builds are as bad as yours though lol.
If weight, ride time, and rideability are not what you think make a bike good, is it reliability? If so, go look at a stark forum. They're pretty dismal on the reliability front too.
I'm interested to hear your argument here.
I love your build and also have a converted crf250 with a qs138. I dont like how you have literally rubbished the stark so much, there is no need and it's pretty clear the stark has been an inspiration for your build. Appreciate that stark have an entire team and R&D backing them and have taken years to develop it. It uses top of line components and has been engineered solely to be an electric bike and therefore has no compromises. In comparison, the new model runs 100s4p molicel p50b cells and a motor and gearbox designed for this purpose, whereas you and me are using a cheap chinese motor from aliexpress.
Less hating on the stark please.
Love the build, particularly your battery, and I think it will be an amazing bike.
@@michaelfila2796 Thanks. Stark is great and I love what they've done for the market. It does seem like I'm bagging on them a lot but its not for the fact that I dont like them. Just want them to do better. The fact that we can compete with (and possibly beat) them using cheap Chinese parts makes me want to push them harder. The fact that they came out with the enduro version tells me they listen to our complaining so in my eyes its worth continuing to complain. I like to receive the same criticism too. It helps us get better. Thanks for pointing out how much its coming off as hate. I'll make sure to set it right moving forward.
Bullshit
Ok. I don't think you did because this isn't the "normal" conversion? Try about double the voltage compared to the stock EBMX kit lol. Yours was likely their 72 volt kit.. Not 120v like this beast 😲
Sorry, but what do you mean you send the same exact voltage to the motor when battery drains? If your battery is let's say at 116v then you are sending that voltage to the controller and in consequences that will be the voltage on the motor once it reaches it's maximum rpm(for the given voltage). Anyway, I'll be following your build as your claim is pretty pretentious. I think a lot of people focus just on pure specs, but also forget about integration and build quality as well as how refined the bike feels. When it comes to fardrivers they are not the most refined and tunable controllers. But their reliable and cheap
As the battery drains, the voltage drops. So the max voltage you can send to the controller is lower. My controller does not send out more than 96v, so for the time my battery is above 96v, the peak power to send to the motor is the same. Once the battery is below 96v the controller will be sending out a peak power of whatever the battery voltage is at.
I do not mean to be pretentious, and I'm sorry you took it that way. I'm just trying to convince more people to build their own bikes by showing what we can achieve.
As far as build quality and integration, these are things I have thought about and planned extensively. For instance, I arranged the whole assembly in the bike based on perfect weight positioning since its so common for the weight to end up high and forward on electric bikes. I modeled the whole bike in CAD so I could do weight positioning calcs to make the balance as similar to a gas bike as possible but with the weight a little lower since it will weigh a little more.
There is always a likelihood that any of these estimates are incorrect, but its not pretentious to make them and attempt to achieve them. To me it seems more pretentious for someone who has not seen the effort put in, to assume they know more about the situation.
@BlacksheepEngineering I don't think that the controller can do a step down of the voltage coming out of the battery. So if the initial voltage is 116v then that's what the controller will be putting to the phase wires minus the voltage sag across the whole system. I might be wrong though, I am not an electrical engineer. Also I think samsung 50s is not the best choice of cells for such a high power application. Yes Samsung claims 25a continuous, but realworld test prove its only about 17a. At 25a samsung 50s will heat up very quickly and the resulting energy output will be much smaller than molicell p45b. I understand that you will be using around 300 line amps, possibly more. your 70ah battery will be struggling to provide such currents and will be heating up and sagging a lot. Also, are you sure th qs138 will handle such power?