NORTH MACEDONIA | A Broken Agreement?
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2024
- In May 2024, a diplomatic row broke out between Greece and North Macedonia when the new president of North Macedonia, Gordana Siljanovska-Davkova, used the country's old name “Republic of Macedonia” during her inauguration. This was contrary to the terms of the Prespa Agreement with Greece-a peace deal crucial for ending a long-standing dispute over the name and for the country's EU integration prospects. As the Greek ambassador walked out from the ceremony, European Union officials stressed the agreement's importance and the potential repercussions of disregarding it. To this end, the recent actions by North Macedonia's president have raised concerns about the stability of this international peace agreement. So, could the Macedonian Government really be ready to abandon it?
The country, officially known as the Republic of North Macedonia, lies in Southeast Europe and has a diverse population of around 2.1 million. The wider region of Macedonia has a rich history that stretches from ancient times under Alexander the Great to Roman, Byzantine, Serb, Bulgarian and Ottoman rule. In 1913, the territory was divided between Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. While the Serbian-held part joined the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, it became one of the six federal republics of Yugoslavia in the 1940s. This lasted until 1991 when it declared independence as the Republic of Macedonia. However, this provoked a thirty-year dispute with Greece, which contested the name. This saw the country admitted to the United Nations under a provisional name, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM). In 2018, after decades of contention, the sides reached a settlement, the Prespa Agreement. This agreement renamed the country from the Republic of Macedonia to the Republic of North Macedonia and was crucial for its accession to NATO and its ongoing attempts to join the EU. But could the new VMRO-DPMNE government be about to challenge the deal?
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VIDEO CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Titles
00:42 Peace Agreements in International Relations
01:42 North Macedonia: Location and Population
02:20 Macedonia in History
04:01 The Macedonian Name Issue
05:52 The Prespa Agreement and North Macedonia
07:02 The Ratification of the Prespa Agreement
08:43 External and Internal Reactions to the Prespa Agreement
09:42 A New Diplomatic Row over the Name
11:08 A Return to the Macedonia Name Dispute?
SOURCES AND FURTHER READING
Ministry of Foreign Affairs | Greece
www.mfa.gr/en/
Ministry of Foreign Affairs | North Macedonia
mfa.gov.mk/en
Interim Agreement (1995)
peacemaker.un.org/greecefyrom...
Prespa Agreement (2018)
treaties.un.org/doc/Publicati...
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#NorthMacedonia #Greece #Macedonia #PrespaAgreement
Even as a Slav I must admit that beginning of this video is misleading. Modern North Macedonians started their history where all Slavs history starts - in the swamplands of Polesia (modern Belarus, Ukraine and Poland) and there is no connection with ancient Kingdom of Macedonia. In fact Albanians have more intertwined history with Greeks than North Macedonians have. But instead going for "we conquered territories of Alexander the Great and made it out homeland" they try to cosplay as ancient Macedonians as if they were ashamed of their Slavic heritage (for God's sake Slavs conquered half of Europe and are the most numerous ethnic group in Europe and we did it without knowing how to read or write).
So, you are saying is that ancient Macedonians vanished in thin air, instead of mixing with incoming Slavs.
@@jean-luc_picard Slavic success was based on cultural dominance. Slavic culture was far more self-sufficient than any more civilized one. So when crisis came and civilized countries and tribes were collapsing because they were dependent on long distance trade, Slavs, with their more primitive political organization had largely self sufficient settlements. So whenever advance political and economical structures fell non-Slavic groups face either extinction, mass migration or abandonment of their way of life. And depending on region it look differently: modern Poland was basically empty because all Germanic tribes emigrated, while in Byzantine territories cultural absorption was more frequent. But it wasn't cultural blending in more traditional way, but rather abandoning old style of life to become part of Slavic community. So while there was definitely genetic mixing, cultural mixing was rather small and any notion historical or political continuity is extremely unlikely.
And this is also reason why Romanians and Albanians survived even due extreme pressure from Slavic colonization - mountain people by definition were more self sufficient than their lowland counterpart and the pressure to abandon old way of living and do it Slavic way was smaller. So Romania is a quite good example of more traditional culture blending and a counterexample to abandoning civilized culture to become part of more self-sufficient and primitive culture, as seen in other regions colonized by Slavs.
IN MAKEDONIJA --- MACEDONIANS. Slav.... dance rok en roll .
@@jean-luc_picard Noone disappeared, Macedonia is still where it always was, in Ellas. Also many tribes of Eurasia are descendants of the Ellenic army all the way to Pakistan and Afghanistan. This "country" has nothing to do with Macedonia and Ellas, the exact opposite, the real people of the land were expelled to Ellas, having to abandon their homes and start all over, as their conqueror (monkeydonians) were very barbaric.
@@jean-luc_picardancient Macedonia was Greek and nothing else… yes, 1000 years AFTER Alexander the Great Slavs mixed with local Greeks from Macedonia, Epirus, Thesalia etc…
What’s your point???
2:20 What was that? North Macedonia is by no means related to the ancient kingdom, whose territory is almost entirely in Greece today. The territory was called Paeonia, a different kingdom. North Macedonia is not related geographically, ethnically, linguistically, or culturally to ancient Macedonia. It's very unfortunate that you made this mistake.
Actually, genetic tests from North Macedonians prove that they have a lot of Greek DNA.
MAKEDONIJA 25 CENTURIES IN SOUTH EVROPA ! ! ! ! !
Mostly yes as a Macedonian I agree I'm Albanian , but I can argue that the territorial landmark is still the same and that won't change no matter what tricks Greece pulls. Look at the map of Treaty of Bucharest, all of that was ottoman empire territory split with the peace agreement still nobody is happy about it. In a lot of north cities of Greece they speak Macedonian. The people lived there longer than 1913.
Please google a map of ancient Macedonia before commenting hard like this.
Macedonia does actually overlap with ancient Macedonia. Along with this slavic Macedonians do have slavic admixture they also have greek ancestry. I mean could the same not be said about Egypt and Syria where the majority of people are Arabs with little cultural continuity to the historic civilizations? At least slavic Macedonians claim ancient Macedonia as part of its cultural heritage.
@@billzhang8628You don’t understand. They claim to be Macedonians & that Macedonians NEVER had anything to do with Greeks. That is FALSE.
How exactly is North Macedonia related to the Ancient kingdom? Linguistically? Culturally? Geographically? It doesn’t seem like a helpful or even remotely accurate narrative to be spreading. Even the prespa agreement that both countries agreed on explicitly states that North Macededonia has no relation to the ancient Hellenic civilization.
I’m not sure why trying to break that territorial link is helpful or in Greece’s best interests either. The Prespa Agreement explicitly found a suitable compromise to both positions. It recognised the territory as the land of Alexander the Great, but also emphasises that the country’s present heritage is predominantly Slavic.
@@JamesKerLindsay "The so-called Republic of 'Macedonia' [FYROM] is located in what was ancient PAEONIA."
Paul Cartledge, University of Cambridge, UK
@@JamesKerLindsay You are right professor, but the people of that country still claim an ancient identity. It is everywhere in the social media, people from Skople claim everything. So, the "Slavic identity" remained in a paper inside a drawer.
As for Macedonia, the original ancient Kingdom was always a small kingdom next to Thessaly, under Mount Olympus. The rest territory is expansions, and Skopje lay in Peonia which Phillip invaded, but the most popular map is that of the Roman province of Macedonia which include Skopje, and there is the problem.
It is the same area of the original Macedonian kingdom
@@martingelevski9509 "Modern slavs, both Macedonian and Bulgarian CANNOT establish a link with antiquity as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian Kingdom"
“Macedonia Redux”, Eugene N. Borza, in The Eye Expanded: life and the arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity, ed. Frances B Tichener & Richard F. Moorton, University of California Press, 1999
I mean from what i've seen North Macedonia has no relation whatsoever with ancient Macedonia as they are not ethnically Greek so I get why Greece is mad.
That is true!
Macedonia is part of the Greek culture.
Even the names Alexander, olymliada, Philip, aristotelis, and macedonia are of Greek origin themselves.
I live in Flanders. Except that I don't, because my region used to be part of the historical duchy of Brabant and not the historical county of Flanders. And yet those in Lille who historically were Flemish and today are part of France, aren't upset by this. Besides, it would be ironic for Frenchies to be upset, since unlike them, us Flemishmen are the descendants of the Franks and we don't make a fuss about that either.
Damn, sometimes I'm happy we are not the Balkans.
@@1302VLI am not sure your case is the same as the one described here. In this case, a Slavic people who appeared 1000 years after Alexander the Great claims that descended from Alexander the Great. A people who speaks a dialect of Bulgarian tries to connect itself with a person who spoke Greek, identified as Greek and spread Greek language and culture to Afghanistan and India. Do you now get it maybe a little better?
Ancient Macedonians weren't Greeks either, especially not modern-day Greeks.
@@MarbledKing so they use an ahistorical name. Like Flanders does. And France does. And Russia does (the Rus were Germanic). And half of the world does. What is not the same about it precisely?
It's not just Greece's problem, it's also a Bulgarian problem as well, from which - an European problem. If you act like cattle, you will be treated like cattle
I did the Bulgarian angle in another video and got thousands of hate comments from Bulgarians after I said that Bulgaria didn’t really understand why it was angry with the Macedonians. (Every comment essentially said that I’d didn’t know what I was talking about. Of course, they knew why they were angry. And then each one gave me a different reason for their anger. You can’t make this stuff up. 🙂 I might have to revisit that discussion again.)
@@JamesKerLindsaythe ol’ Balkan mosh pit
@@JamesKerLindsay Yeah, this is why it is so hard to untangle diplomatic issues. While we try to look at it dispassionately from the outside at the end of the day many conflicts just come down to people being angry often for ill-defined reasons based on generations of inherited hate. It is hard to solve a problem backed by mostly emotional impulses.
They would be much better off if they were part of Bulgaria, and in the EU
@JamesKerLindsay You are right that Bulgaria's position hasn't been clear about what our neighbors should do exactly to get our final nod for the EU. However, I do think you somewhat trivialize the issues between the two countries, and there are many: the language, the huge number of Bulgarians with Macedonian roots(all over Bulgaria), the identity of historical figures, archeological evidence etc. Many people believe the issues are exploited by politicians (on both sides) who could instead be looking for practical solutions to improve relations. The situation is quite similar to Romania/Moldova, Greece/Cyprus, Albania/Kososvo, Serbia/R. Srpska. Lots of shared history, but separate countries. Hopefully, all will be part of the part of the EU eventually, and we will be able to overcome the silly bickering. I hope you do a follow-up video on the MK-BG-GR disputes, perhaps fact-checking everyone's claims as a neutral observer.
1. The original Macedonian territory was smaller and more southern, its inhabitants were Greeks and spoke a northern Greek dialect related to Doric, and almost all of it is located in today's Greece.
2. It's the Romans who expanded it to include Paeonia and Dardania; this is where Republic of N. Macedonia sits right now.
3. There's no mention of Slavic migrations.
"Both Herodotus and Thucydides describe the Macedonians as foreigners, a distinct people living outside of the frontiers of the Greek city-states" - Eugene Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus p. 96.
@@Love78787 Herodotus mentions that the Macedonians are a Dorian race, which originally lived in Pindos and later settled in the Peloponnese. The Argeades attributed their origin to the first mythical king of Argos, Timenos.
@@Love78787 Nice Skopian propaganda. Unfortunately it's fake
@@Love78787 Don't rely too much for your propaganda on Borza. The Slav-Macedonians, Borza viewed as a "newly emergent people" who he believed could not establish a link with antiquity because "Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom". He saw any alleged link of Slav-Macedonians to the ancient Macedonian kingdom as a product of regional political factors, and not genetic or cultural.
@@Love78787 if you had ever studied Herodotus and Thukidides, you would not say these nonsense.
I have followed this situation closely for many years. However, like many others, I thought the two countries had finally resolved this dispute. But it seems not. So, do you think that the New Government in North Macedonia will try to revoke the Prespa Agreement? And what will happen if it does? Or will it just continue to undermine it in other ways? And what will Greece and the EU do if it does? As always, I look forward to hearing your thoughts and comments below.
What is the ethnic origin of your surname Ker? Is it celtic or so? Welsh or Cornish maybe?
@vovac8915 Close. Scottish! 🏴🙂 But I also have Welsh and Irish (and English) ancestry.
As an American I simple cannot fully understand this issue of heritage. All my life I've been told, there's a little bit of this nationality and a little bit of that one, I simply don't know what it's like to have not just one, but one that goes back for centuries. I can't reproduce that connection. Disputes over heritage only I find fascinating.
The North Macedonian government has been trying to forge a distinct identity and the Prespa agreement distorts the image they have been painting. While some people are ok with this distortion, many other cannot accept the fact that they have been deceived since childhood or simply admit they have been wrong all along. The pendulum has now swung and the balance of power is in the latter's favour. Let's see how long will they keep it.
P.S. It's the Balkans and thing are never straightforward.
Russ Roberts host of EconTalk podcast should do a episode on political correctness and hypocrisy of the political commentary community.
👌🏿
Just a regular day in the Balkans
I know I'm really not meant to laugh, but as someone who has spent decades working on the region and is a bone-fide professor of SE Europe politics and international relations, I really couldn't help it! It really is either laugh or cry sometimes!
@@JamesKerLindsay you call yourself a bone-fide profesor? Hahah So pathetic.
are you claiming that North Macedonia and its Bulgarian/slavic population has ties to the ancient Macedonian/Greek peoples and empire? LOL if so then you have lost all credibility and I cannot take you seriously anymore! I am not even greek by the way.
North Macedonia partially overlaps with ancient Macedonia. While they do have genetic similarity with Bulgarian they are also genetically related to greek Macedonians.
@@billzhang8628 ?????????????????????????
Source?
He is not even a professor. I cam here to listen to a professor and his aspect on the things, and I listened to a man making cheap propaganda.
@@billzhang8628 ok then so by your logic Turkiye is also ancient Greece or Macedonia because many turks have some genetics as the ancient greeks and Turkiye has lands that once were part of ancient Greece and the Macedonian empire. LOL
@@TheBill86100 The source is lower intestinal.
North Macedonia celebrating Alexander the Great is like Poland proclaiming Otto von Bismarck as a national hero
Who cares, if it is just trolling the bully next door?
Repablic of Macedonia never Greek never Nord god blees new President of Macedonia.
@@angelina1636Just slavis
@@EdMcF1 go and see how the people suffer for decades in northern Greece with even threatening text messages in the middle of the night and come back again to talk about bullying
The country is literally teaching hate to their youth about their neighboring countries and are threatening them with war
And you still have the Audacity to talk about bullies.
He is Alexander the Macedon🇲🇰 not Alexander the greek !
It's so odd that the Macedonans extol Alexander so much when it's clear that they prefer Milton.
You know what's also odd? Tianamen Square 1989. You what else? 1948 exodus and ethnic cleansing of Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia + 1926 Toponyms change from Macedonian to Greek by Metaxas + 1912 Macedonia Split between 3 countries.
And Guess what, BESIDE EVERYTHING, WE ARE STILL THERE (in Aegean Macedonia, occupied by Greece), AND WE STILL SPEAK MACEDONIAN (Same goes for Pirin in Bulgaria). We've been and still are like grass weeds - No matter how much you try to eradicate us, WE WILL STILL BE ON OUR OWN LAND.
I guess the "European Countries and EU" don't bother with occupied regions when the UK helped the Greeks and used Napalm bombs on civilians in 1948.
But what do you know about freedom, mr chinaman 💀💀💀
I always found that odd considering that he was a Macedonian Greek and not a Slav
ALEXANDER THE GREAT IS MACEDONIAN.
before 25 centuries ALEXANDER TSAR ON MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Alexander the Slav that started the Hellenistic period and spread the Greek language in the known world, you can’t make this stuff up 🤣
@@jrssww It is ridiculous if you know the History of the region.They came in the region more they 1000 years later the death of Alexander the Great.
I am sorry but you confuse things. Macedonia as geographical location and an old Greek population has nothing to do with current North Macedonia, who are Slavs/ Bulgarians. It’s like saying USA has a rich history of of Siberian and Asian people who are known as Clovis people thousands years ago.
Why USA is named after an Italian cartographer is a convoluted story...
By that logic "New" Greek population doesn't have much to do with ancient one either. Some stayed and mixed with new people and others migrated, same as Greece or any other country.
MAKEDONIJA EXIST 25 CENTURIES from FILIP KING ON MAKEDONIJA.
germans make Blgaria before 140 years. Greece before 190 years.
by the way, in [02:20] i guess you were confused when you said that "North Macedonia have an extraordinary History and then referred to the ancient Macedonian Kingdom etc". you wanted just to say "ancient Macedonia has an extraordinary History etc"
One of James’s absolutely standard introductory remarks is ‘(Insert obscure or disputed people or landmass here) has a very rich and complex history, dating back to (insert distant time period here)’. Much as I love him, it’s a rather banal and meaningless ‘apple pie’ statement to make the topic at hand seem more interesting and worthy of analysis. Tell me which people or territories do not , arguably, have ‘a rich and complex history, stretching back to the beginning of time’?? This one, though I sympathise with the Greeks and respect for international treaties, is just another self-interest-based dispute between different groups of people and their populist and power-hungry leaders. Pathetic. 🤷♂️
@@hisdadjames4876Yes but it's looks like everyone dp it in purpose. Ancient Macedonians was Greeks not Slavs and ancient Macedonia is inside Greece, where is and the original region of Macedonia. There is not such things as Macedonia outside Greece. These people of 'North Macedonia' are mix of Bulgarians and Albanians who want to steal Greek history. This place of 'North Macedonia' till 30 years ago was called Vardaska Banovina
srbi ukrali Vardarska Makedonija. dogovor 1913 :
Srbija na MAKEDONIJA vrak'a Vardarska Makedonija .
I noticed this error too. True, extraordinary history as slavic people, not Macedonian.
THERE WAS NO "NORTH MACEDONIA" BEFORE 2018 FAKE AGREEMENT , MACEDONIA FOR 4000 YEARS NOW IS GREECE
are you really saying that todays Macedonia is linked to the Hellenistic Kingdom historically?!
I got that distinct impression from watching this, which seems historically misleading. (And I'm not even from North Macedonia or Greece).
considering he missed out a very very big chunk of complicated history in which it was Bulgarian (hell the capital was there ), then Serb and then ottoman . Then all the ethnic cleansing on the otomans behalf due to rebellions from the ethnic groups , the the Serb propaganda years . Yes he might as well say it
are modern greeks connected to hellenic times really? check your bloodline you could be turkish.
@@ozgurd5920 You are turkified islamised Anatolians, you don't look central Asian Turkic. Get your facts 😉
@@ozgurd5920You are turkified Greeks
If you overlay a map of modern northern Macedonia with ancient Macedonia, there is basically almost no overlap. Macedonia is and was part of what would be considered the Greek/Hellenistic cultural sphere that would be inherited by the modern day state of Greece.
Northern Macedonia is just a bunch of Bulgarians with an identity crisis, their languages are basically the same. I don’t know why they’re so desperate to claim the heritage of Macedonia when Bulgaria also has a rich and long history.
yeah and turkey should named hitites. lmao. 2k years ago.... dude. this is madness. a lot of migration periods happened. ancient people and cultures are gone.
@@ozgurd5920 The turkish people even in their own founding myth do not consider themselves as being indigenous to anatolia, (even though a vast majority of Turkey population is). They're arguments that could be made on cultural and linguistic lines, not just ancestral and ethnic ones. Difference with North Macedonia is they do not have any those.
@@itsorganic7739 anglo-saxons were not british yet they claim they are british and they protect stonehenge etc right?
so why not macedons cannot create their identity by their current place?
and why greece getting hurted by this?
@@ozgurd5920 No one really claims to be an "Anglo Saxon". That term is largely used in reference to the germanic invaders of the british isles from the early middle ages. The reason why that term endured is because most of what would become england became the domain of the anglo saxons, while the older cultures on the island like the romano british got pushed back to places like wales and cornwall. Over time these people began to consider themselves English once the country was unified, and eventually British as their control over the other cultural entities on the island was expanded. "Anglo saxon" as a term today is really only in reference to the linguistic heritage of the English language. The germanic invaders spoke what is known as "Old English" which was an anglo saxon/german dialect. That langauge eventually evolved into the english we have today on the british isle over centuries of change and cultural influences. The basis of that language though is still its Anglo Saxon Roots
@@itsorganic7739 so is it so different than macedons or even ottomans at this point? history is not solid thing mate you can bend it as you want.
Not just Greece, but Bulgaria too.
Vrati se doma vo Tatarstan.
@@user-ct1nu9od9y Учи история...вие сте българи...
@@user-ct1nu9od9y, bro, the fact that Bulgarians got their ethnonym from the Turkic tribe of Bulgars doesn't mean that Bulgarians are Turks and they should return to Tatarstan... Russian also got their ethnonym from the Scandinavian tribe Rus, but this doesn't mean that all Russians should return to Scandinavia
germans make Blgaria before 140 years.
@@user-ct1nu9od9y POZDRAV ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA
I'm neither Greek nor Bulgarian just someone interested in history and geopolitics but it seems like North Macedonia is a nation of roleplayers lol. Especially adopting the imagery of Alexander when he lived way before the Slavic migration to the area.
I do wonder though about if Greece throwing such a fit over the name is the right approach. Like they could just let them keep the name and use it as an opportunity to try to spread more of their culture and influence into the area instead of riding on their historic influence of the area.
I think it goes deeper. I just watched the intro so far. But it got me thinking. There was a province of Macedonia in the Ottoman Empire. It just so happens that the only area of that once province that is free, is North Macedonia. Maybe the Greeks and Bulgars fear their territories of Macedonia could be inspired to be sovereign also. Not sure.
And how are the Greek and the Bulgarian part of the modern geographical region of Macedonia not free?
@@MarkVrem I'm pretty sure the majority of people in the Greek region of Macedon identify as Greece. I'm not sure about Bulgaria though but if that were the case, wouldn't the people in Greece/Bulgaria that want to unite with North Macedonia be more vocal? It really doesn't seem like that is the case or that there is a North Macedonian majority in those areas
I understand your mindset, but you cannot portray a nation’s people as “roleplayers” if we simply follow our culture and historical heritage, which is rooted in the Ancient period of Macedonia. Our ancestors praised the conquests of Alexander the Great and the glory of Macedon in countless works. Ancient Macedonia has been used as a symbolism for freedom from Ottoman captivity by the Macedonians themselves. The symbolism of the Ancient Macedonians has been maintained throughout the 2,000 years after Alexander the Great’s reign, being engraved in our flags, coat of arms, religious sites and our tradition. We have not simply adopted the imagery of Alexander the Great, we inherited it from our ancestors instead.
@@Odyssey05 The Vergina Sun and all other ancient Macedonian symbols were not used in North Macedonia before the 1990's. Neither ancient Macedonian names like Alexander or Philip, neither folk song and other relative cultural elements. For example, the "Bulgarian Folk Songs" of the Miladinov Brothers in 1861, and other literary product before the 1990's speaks nothing about ancient Macedonia
North Macedonia wasn't even a think back when Alexander made his Empire. It just happenes to share a name with the ancient greek empire due to them occupying part of the area that made up the original Greek kingdom of Macedon. The area though was only taken many many many centuries after. They aren't even greek they are slavs (no probelm towards the people even have some slav friends) and alexander and his empire where greek. Slavs weren't even close to a think during 300 bc
before 25 centuries FILIP MACEDONIAN KINGDOM ! ! !
I mean could the same not be said about Egypt and Syria where the majority of people are Arabs with little cultural continuity to the historic civilizations?
@@billzhang8628 No, it is not the same because there is not a North Syria or a North Egypt. Where there is an actual Macedonia, which is in northern Greece
@@alfredoarroyo9201 Assyria only partially overlaps with modern Syria. In fact there are more Assyrians in Iraq. North Macedonia does partially overlap with ancient Macedonia.
I'm Serbian and in my experience most Serbians feel like its ridiculous for N Macedónia to pretend to be the descendents of Philip and Alexander the Great....
It's just stupid ... But also I can tell anyone that the people of the Balkans are some of the most stubborn people on Earth... Lol
God Bless them all 🙏... I pray that they'll figure things out tho ...
But let's suppose North Macedonia did get in to the EU with its new name. There's absolutely nothing to stop it checking the name back, is there? No Chapters of the Acqui will have been broken, not anything even to sanction the state.
Yep. There was no enforcement mechanism of any kind in 2018. I honestly don't see how they join the EU without at least some sort of mechanism now unless the new government in Skopje grovels, which they won't do. Maybe a future NM government will be willing to grovel.
@@professorquarter We don’t even want to be a EU member only Kovacevski and his party are obsessed with EU membership.
Greece might insist on some form of exception, a bit like Denmark's little tweak to the Maastricht Treaty allowing it to ban (cough) Germans from buying holiday homes in Denmark.
@@EdMcF1 That was a Denmark opt-out, applied within its own country, not applied on another country. And although it's true that it was protecting itself from holiday home buyers of its neighbours Germany, it's not a ban on foreigners buying those properties but a ban on non-residents buying them. If they become tax-paying residents, Germans can buy the properties. (Canary Islands resident here: holiday homes were not just an issue for Denmark then, but are a contemporary issue for various places today, huh?)
The so called North Macedonia should be properly and rightly called West Bulgaria.
James, I have 2 simple questions. Have you been to Alexandria in Egypt? Because I did various times and can assure you they all consider Alexandar the Great as Greek and use the Arabic word Al-Yunan (just like Turkish Yunanistan). You will see Greek writings in many places. This script cannot be read by today's North Macedonia. Also why is the modern Macedonian language the closest to Bulgarian and not Serbo-Croatian? 🙂
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES ARE MACEDONIANS ! ! ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Have you been to Alexandria, Egypt? Yes or no?
The modern Macedonian language was created in 1945 by Venko Markovski. It’s essentially a dialect of Bulgarian.
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES speak Macedonian language ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Reply. Have you been to Alexandria, Egypt? It is a simple question.
Makedonien soll Makedonien auch bleiben!...sto zele Grci?...Dali je Filip Grcko ime?Ne..dli je Aleksander Grcko ime?Ne...i tako dalje...Otac i Sin Makedonski stvorili su Makedoniju..Ne samo to,nego i Aleksandriju u Egiptu...Grci mogu bit sretni Sto TITO nije uzeo cijelu Makedoniju do Soluna...Makedonija je stara zemlja i ponosna...Ja se divim novoj Predsjednici Makedonije sto zeli Makedoniju kao Makedoniju a ne Sjevernu Makedoniju kao Provinciju jedne Grcke i EU...EU je dosad napravila toliko zla / ova EU sa Frankoistom Borrellom i U.v.d.Layen te sa Napoleonom iz Pariza i Co/.. na kraju,Makedonija nek se prikljuci BRIX-u to je Buducnost...Srbija i Madjarska su to shvatili..Kina,Rusija,Indira,Arabische Länder su buducnost svih koji Ne zele biti Sluge Anglosaxonaca i Pjetlova iz Pariza te Pijanih Engländer i Njemaca...zivijela Slobodna Republika MAKEDONIJA...
North Macedonia is quite an interesting country, they are essentially Bulgarians that Serbians convinced into believing that they are ancient Greeks. Much of the claiming of ancient (Greek) Macedonian history only began under Yugoslav rule or independence. I guess it's the only way that the state could form an identity for its people as a nation, similar to Western Europe during the rise of state-sponsored nationalism over a century ago. Such a silly thing to threaten EU membership over too
Not exactly. The Serbs before 1945 were adamant in convincing them they were Serb (many were; Bulagrian and Serbian exist on the South Slavic language continuum and many villages in what is now Macedonia spoke Serbian, although most spoke Bulgarian).
The communists in Yugoslavia were not Serb dominated and the idea of a seperate Macedonian identity was designed to weaken Serb influence within Yugoslavia by having another equal republic made from Serb territory like Montenegro. By seperating Montenergo and Macedonia (and Bosnia) from the Serbian political entity within Yugoslavia you went from a large political sudivision that massively overshadowed the Croats and Slovenes to six total republics you could have some kind of accord between.
The Croats and Slovenes were dominated by the much larger Serb entity in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia which would have been untenable in a communist federation led by a non-serb. Keep in mind Tito was half Slovene half Croat.
As a Greek, it’s honestly kinda flattering how much they love and glorify Greek history despite claiming it’s not Greek whatsoever lol. I believe they are biggest victims here and I wish them all the best.
You have no idea what you're talking about, please never mention North Macedonia ever again.
@@Highball1417 North Macedonia.
@@chegayvara1136 MACEDONIANS ARE MACEDONIANS.
jedi c'varke.
".. do not forget Greece, Alexander ..It was for her sake that you launched your whole expedition, to add Asia to Greece .."
Arrian [Anabasis of Alexander 4.11.7]
«.. τῆς Ἑλλάδος μεμνῆσθαί σε ἀξιῶ, ὦ Αλέξανδρε ἧς ἕνεκα ὁ πᾶς στόλος σοι ἐγένετο, προσθεῖναι τὴν Ἀσίαν τῇ Ἑλλάδι ..»
Ἀρριανός [Ἀλεξάνδρου Ἀνάβασις 4.11.7]
I admire your courage, Professor. Diving headfirst into the Powderkeg that remains the Balkans is not good for one's mental well-being.
Still, there must be discussion about such sensitive matters. Calm, polite and reasonable analyses such as yours are all the more required, considering how emotionally charged these situations are .Hope you are faring well!
I am suggesting to you do some research on how the Macedonians in the Greek North (that's what the region was called until 1988 when it was changed to Macedonia) during the Metaxa regime cυτ out the tongues of some Macedonians if they heard them speaking in Macedonian.There was also a secret ροιice eavesdropping on people under the window because their language was forbidden even in their homes
Израиль получил поддержку от самого неожиданного места в мире
Сейшельские Острова - это не только место для пляжного отдыха и красивых фотографий, но и хороший друг Израиля и одна из немногих стран, которые поддерживают его в этот трудный период войны в секторе Газа.
Недавно на Сейшельских Островов можно было увидеть выражения сочувствия и поддержки Израилю. На христианском параде, который прошел на улицах столицы Виктории, жители и школьники танцевали с флагами Сейшельских Островов и Израиля.
Поддержка Израиля наблюдается на фоне рекордного количества израильских туристов на Сейшельских Островах. В апреле не менее 2579 израильтян решили провести отпуск на Сейшелах, что сделало Израиль одной из основных стран, из которых туристы приезжают в островное государство. В апреле Израиль оказался на четвертом месте по количеству туристов на Сейшелах среди всех стран мира. Только из Франции, России и Германии на Сейшельские Острова приехало больше туристов, чем из Израиля.
В 2023 году на Сейшельские острова прибыли 12 945 туристов из Израиля, что поставило Израиль на восьмое место в мире по количеству туристов, посетивших страну в прошлом году.
Среди всех азиатских стран Израиль находится на втором месте по количеству посетителей Сейшел - уступает только Объединенным Арабским Эмиратам, причем из Израиля на Сейшельские острова приезжает больше туристов, чем из Индии и Китая вместе взятых
Ако ме разбираш значи си Българин.
I like how the Prespa Agreement is described as a "peace agreement."
It seems like war.....war never changes.
Not a single person likes it. It is selling away Ellenic heritage and history. Trump should give them Washington ot New York if he wants these people in NATO.
no it is not
That was a mistake. When Macedonia declared independence there was no war with Greece.
@@Stefan_Mileski Macedonia IS Greece
@@Anastasis-is-here Germany is France?
Macedonia has a long and rich history, North Macedonia has not. It's just slavs cosplaying as Greeks.
They are the same region divided by old immigration and language.
Half of Greece is Slavic
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES speak Macedonian language .
That's like saying greeks are turks cosplaying greeks
According to a German historian, today's Greeks have no internal ties with the ancient Greeks and Hellenes. Current Greeks are a mixture of Slavs, Albanians and Romanians.
If North Macedonia decides to ditch the Prespa Agreement, some folks in Greece might take this as proof that the far-right was right all along-that the agreement really wasn't in Greece's best interest. This could give far-right groups a boost, especially in Northern Greece where these identity issues are hot-button topics. We'd likely see this issue pop up a lot in upcoming election campaigns, with far-right parties playing up nationalistic feelings to rally more support.
It’s not Far Right Greeks who have been screaming for years that the Prespa Agreement was a disgrace, it’s GREEKS that have been screaming so even before the agreement was signed. Every single poll the last two months before the signing, showed that more than 80% of Greeks were against it, because we felt we were selling off a hugely important part of our history, especially us up North, in Macedonia. The fact that the Far Right has indeed kept the issue at the top of their agenda ever since (I’m guessing mostly for political reasons, and not because they are… fantastic patriots), does not mean that it’s just a bunch of neo-Nazis who oppose the agreement and dream of seeing it annulled.
That’s actually what disgusted me the most back in 2018; the government not only closed their ears to a whole country YELLING against the agreement, but they even went that far as to call all of us who were against it, “extremists”! “Extremists”!!!!! That’s the very definition of having to prove that you are not an elephant...
@@dibaskg After your logic, 80% of the Macedonians from North Macedonia were against the Prespa agreement too. Then we can call them extremist too. If both sides are unhappy, then the agreement must be good thing.
@@dibaskg
A good agreement is the agreement where both sides are equally dissatisfied
Good Morning James,
It is often disappointing these days when a historic agreement is reached and with a change in administration in one of the parties involved, it gets revoked - as it happened with the US Iran deal.
That said, I am curious with one of the terms you used - 'peace agreement'. To the extent I know, the two sides were never engaged in violent conflict ? Is it common to use this term in the context? In order to not trigger emotions in the comments section, I would take one of the most obscure 'disputes'- in future if Portugal were to dismiss its claim on Olivença against Spain, would it be considered a peace agreement given these two sides were never in active conflict over it?
Have a good weekend.
Thanks Anirudh. I think we can call it a peace agreement. Agreed, we do tend to think of peace agreements as being linked to violent conflicts. However, I the term can be applied to other situations where there is a serious point of dispute that is resolved. After thirty years of tensions, which even ended up before the UN and ICJ, I think this qualified as a peace agreement. :-)
I hope all else is well at your end.
It’s kinda hard to call a peace agreement when no one actually agreed on peace
I whant to state something Many in North Macedonia citizens dont like the agrement then goverment made it cause it was promised by Brusseles if i remember correctly and French President and then Cancellor of Germany Angela Merkel supported by the US made promise to start ascension talks with North Macedonia for the European Union which we know it didnt happen cause of the Bulgarian Veto,and now we can see how the European Union undermined itself when it came to the agreement.and the people felt betrayed and cheated and felt the naming issue didnt bring us any good thing.
MAKEDONIJA 25 VEKA e vo JUZ'NA EVROPA .
od FILIP KRAL IV vek pred ovaa era i denes XXI vek ! ! !
@@agmg3059 Those stpd Slavs of North Macedonia should find a new name for their country which does not relate to Macedonia at all, i.e. Lower Slavia.
Macedonia is part of the Greek culture.
The names (Alexander, Philip, olympiada, Aristotelis, Macedonia, etc) are all of Greek origin. In Greek language this names have a meaning, but in slavic they are random translated words.
Even the era of Alexander's campaign was named as HELLENISTIC(GREEK) ERA and not a macedonian or slavic era, or sametihing. The scripts, coins, texts of that period are all in Greek and not in slavic. Why?
The macedonians participated in Olympic games, where only Greeks could participate. Macedonian kingdom was connected with Greece and not wuth tha slavs coming into the region in 7th century.
"Both Herodotus and Thucydides describe the Macedonians as foreigners, a distinct people living outside of the frontiers of the Greek city-states" - Eugene Borza, In the Shadow of Olympus p. 96.
@@Love78787 Herodotus mentions that the Macedonians are a Dorian race, which originally lived in Pindos and later settled in the Peloponnese. The Argeades attributed their origin to the first mythical king of Argos, Timenos. 🇬🇷🇬🇷🇬🇷
@@Love78787 Macedonians participated in the Olympics, only Greeks could participate back then.
Great Alexander's Era was called worldwide as HELLENISTIC (GREEK) ERA, not something else.
Macedonians spoke Greek we can understand their texts in Greek. So, what are you talking about??🤩🤩🤩
@@Love78787Do not mention Herodotus in our discussion because you have never even touched a book of him.
I read Herodotus in Greek and i can understand. Can you do the same????
@@user-oi4cn7rt8t The Macedonians had Macedonian pagan religion that has nothing to do with the greek that is why there are Macedonian games at Dion. ''the ancient Macedonians were part of a local pantheon which included Thaulos (god of war equated with Ares), Gyga (later equated with Athena), Gozoria (goddess of hunting equated with Artemis), Zeirene (goddess of love equated with Aphrodite) and Xandos (god of light).[135]'' 😋
And does anyone know how this agreement came about? It was signed illegally by the foreign minister and international agreements are signed by the president and he was excluded!!! There was a referendum and it failed!!!! So if someone now talks about democracy it is ridiculous
tell me who's maps (or which maps exactly, not just surface readings) you used to reconstruct this and I will tell you
It's quite important to mention that when you talk about "the history of Macedonia", it means the history of the region Macedonia (not the country), which includes the territories in North Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece, potentially in Serbia and Albania as well.
Furthermore, President Gordana instead of using "President of the Republic of North Macedonia", she said: "President of Macedonia", which is kinda concerning too.
na istok od MAKEDONIJA E PIRINSKA MAKEDONIJA.
na jug od MAKEDONIJA --- EGEJSKA MAKEDONIJA ! ! !
THE REGION MACEDONIA IS MACEDONIAN POPULATION. THAT IS THE MACEDONIA, IT WAS DIVIDED IN THREE PARTS, EGEJSKA WENT WITH GREECE UNJUISTLY, PIRIN WENT WITH BULGARIA UNJUSTLY AND WHAT WAS LEFT OF MACEDONIA WENT WITH YOGOSLAVIA! JUSTICE TO MACEDONIA AND MACEDONIAN PEOPLE AND JUSTICE TO OUR COUNTRY MACEDONIA THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN DEVIDED. MAKEDONIA UNITED. MAKEDONCI SITE ZAEDNO!
James.... I see that you are adding a smiley emoji when referring to some of your previous videos on the topic and feedback you had. I think you shouldn't do that since for many folks on the Balkans, these issues are still very real and important.
I'll give you my perspective (as a bulgarian who wants nothing but warmth, friendly, and mutually supportive relations between bulgarians and macedonians) on why Macedonia keeps having issues with its neighbors. Today's Macedonia is a brand new country, only 30 ish years old. However, not only the country, but generally the macedonian nation itself is brand new (on the scale of European history) emerging during the 20th century as a split from the bulgarian nation. As every new nation macedonians are looking and in pursuit for identity. Identity that will firmly establish the modern country of Macedonia and will differentiate them from the neighboring nations. To do that, they took the path of borrowing big chunks of the Alexander Ancient Kingdom's history and bulgarian medieval / renaissance history. Naturally, neither of the neighbors liked that. If macedonians admit the fact that they are young, newly emerged nation, they won't have any issues with their neighbors. Of course i understand that nobody "owns' the history in such sense but they are objective historical facts from which we can't and we shouldn't escape.
Thanks. I put the emoji in there because I received 7000 abusive comments calling me a liar when almost every one of those comments actually reinforced my point. More to the point, I have worked on the Balkans for many decades. I know how seriously people take these issues. And that’s the whole problem! They are taken far too seriously. Indeed, politicians across the region rely on people taking them seriously to distract them from all the other problems they face. So, while understand why you argue it is serious, I remain sceptical. And having received so much abuse, I reserve my right to treat the subject with a degree of humour. More broadly, my problem with Bulgaria’s approach to the Macedonians is that it shows a profound lack of understanding about psychology. I accept that the Macedonians were indoctrinated by Yugoslavia. I said as much in this video. But if someone is told to hate you the way you get them to change their mind is by being gentle, patient and kind. You don’t go in and say “I’m your friend, but unless you accept that I will be really unpleasant”! It is a bizarre way of behaving. And yet that is, in essence, Bulgaria’s approach.
@@JamesKerLindsay
Bulgarian approach currently is not only absurd, but I'll call it even anti-bulgarian, since it does nothing but harming the relations we have with Macedonia. The approach was different 5 years ago and I'll try to speculate why this is happening now.
About 30-40% (if not more) of bulgarian parliament is currently taken by pro russian parties. Some of them simpatize with Russia, others are out right funded by the Russian state. And if we take a closer look we will see that these parties and politicians are exactly the ones who are constantly stirring the pot, having anti-macedonian rhetoric, acting nationalistic and voicing anti EU opinions. It's not much different in Macedonia where the biggest political party, who's also anti-bulgarian, just happened to be part of Vucic, Orban and Putin's team.
So yes! Surprise, surprise......, just like in many others places in Eastern Europe where we have problems and tensions, here we can also see the long russian arm interfering. Why they do that? They just found an easy tool to stop the further EU enlargement and preventing another country of becoming a member. The bulgarian VETO has very little to do with history issues and a lot to do with corrupt politicians and russian geopolitical games.
@@JamesKerLindsay You can not really change peoples mind. People from all sides are kinda brainwashed so it is almost impossible to change any mind. People get really emotional… :) . Research is the key …. (from valid sources)
Ukraine doesn't exist from 1991, just because before that point they were a part of the Soviet Union.
It's the same exact point with Macedonia. We are not "borrowing" any chunks of history from no one. We used to participate in all of it and in creating that history.
Some of the history that you mentioned, like The First Bulgarian Empire from the medieval ages, we did not only participate in it, but at one point where the heart of it.
Just because we decided to split now and decided to join the allies instead of the axis, that doesn't erase our former existence.
The name game regarding FYROM has gone from absurd to almost obscene levels of duplicity and betrayal...
First off, it's time to stop all these pathetic attempts to "re-write" history. Macedonia and Alexander's legacy was
and always will be Greek, carved in ancient stone and marble for all the world to see and that NO AMOUNT of
pathetic geo-political games can change - let alone erase..
The FORMER Yugoslav (so-called) "republic" was and, unless some common sense prevails, always will be a sad state of affairs.
The main reason that the ridiculous "claim" by the bulgaro-skopjianovski leftovers of FYROM has not succeeded in hi-jacking
the ancient Greek name of Macedonia is that, despite all the cynical and hypocritical "realpolitik" games going on in the region,
there are REAL world issues and historical facts that cannot be avoided.
This is why all the "angry demands" and "claims" by these hi-jackers of history which, when seen all together,
only manage to contradict themselves or end up in "indignant" yet baseless and historically absurd "arguments"
and fake statues, costumes and "symbols".
But what is even more absurd and shameful is that any self respecting person or "organization" would give any of these claims any credence.
It is also why the UN and EU are - in the very least - still insisting on a compromise on the name (which is far more
than this fabricated mish-mash of a country deserves) as regrettably, it is deemed that such a settlement will serve
other interests in the region.
Greece though, for historical but more crucially future geo political reasons, should NOT compromise on the "new name"
and how it is used. Given the current "attitude" in the FYROM, they should now even renounce this fraudulent "treaty".
It remains a sad state of affairs when a bunch of bulgaro-skopjianovskis - that are mostly a left over from the Balkan wars
and Tito's clumsy attempts of territorial gains and access to the Mediterranean sea - try to hijack the ancient Greek name of Macedonia
in a pathetic attempt to give themselves a false "identity".
Something which was clearly exposed by then US Secretary of State Edward R. Stettinius in 1944, stating in no uncertain terms that:
"This (US) government considers talk of Macedonian “nation,” Macedonian “fatherland,” or Macedonian “national consciousness”
to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for
aggressive intentions against Greece." This reality remains even if there has been a shift in some quarters of crude US "policy" in the region.
Subsequently, this sad and latest episode of these displaced Bulgarians - who also have to deal with a large Albanian minority
with their own agendas - is more a case of 'the mouse that roared' (with the cynical "support" of those with rather devious agendas in the region)
than a case of legitimate "claims" to any so-called "ethnic" identity.
Slavs, by the way, did not even arrive in the region until AFTER 600AD and - as their first 'president' Gligorov rightly said - have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
to do with Alexander and Macedonia!
Further more it should also be made clear that even Bulgaria - despite it's past and present agendas - doesn't recognize
the existence of "slavo-macedonians" in the so-called republic!!! - quite rightly considering all FYROM "skopjianovskis" as Bulgarians.
On the other hand, the heritage, cities and monuments of Alexander were, are and always will be GREEK, carved in ancient stone and marble
that no devious or pathetic attempts to re-write history - or any brown nosing those who indulge in so-called "great games" in the region - can change, let alone erase.
If the "supporters" of the FYROM genuinely want a solution to the serious problems and stability of this "country" and the Balkans,
it is time to put a stop to this nonsense and deal with the realities of not only the region but also the very serious and very REAL WORLD
social-economic and environmental problems that we ALL have to face in THIS century.
Just look at the fracking hell of a mess the ponzi/casino "economies" of the so-called "united" states of america and king-CONNED-om are in - AGAIN!!!
Given the relentless and ever increasing climatic disasters, it would also be wise to remember that Mother Nature does NOT do "bail outs" or "quantitative easing"...
The question is (as with other treaties): are there ways to protect what has become international law against potential violators? For instance, North Macedonia joined NATO as part of the deal with Greece, yet there is no possibility that it would loose its position in the alliance should it decide to depart from the Prespa Agreement. So what is it that protects an international agreement? When an individual breaks the law, there are immediate and very precise consequences. But the consequences for a state breaking international law are very vague, thus making international law weak in its implementation
Macedonia gained nothing from NATO,ony became poorer
Before the Prespa Agreement, there was a another agreement in 1995, which established the provisional name FYROM for usage in the UN and on a bilateral level between Macedonia and Greece. This agreement had a clause that Greece would not block Macedonia's membership into international organizations. Greece violated this agreement in 2008, by vetoing Macedonia's NATO membership. In 2011, there was an ICJ ruling that Greece violated the agreement. The democratic and law-abiding international community (UN, NATO, EU, etc), took a very good reading of ICJ ruling, and told Macedonians that we can wipe our bottoms with it. Based on that, any other ruling on the matter will have similar weight.
@@Petelko2695 FYROM ? ?
CREP .
“[FYRO]Macedonian nationalism, as distinct from other South Slavic peoples is, moreover, a relatively new concept, introduced and encouraged by dictator Josip Tito, upon the creation of a separate Macedonian Republic within the Yugoslav federation in 1946. Prior to this, the area generally known as Vardarska banovina (the district of the Vardar river) was considered simply an extension of its southern Slavic neighbors, either Serbians to the north, or Bulgarians to the east. Slavs arrived in the Balkan Peninsula only in the 6th century AD, and therefore have nothing to do with the well-known classical kingdom of Macedonia, which dominated the rest of Greece, the Near East, Egypt and Persia under Alexander the Great in the 4th century BCE.”
Encyclopedia of World Geography, Volume 1, 2006, p.564:
It was encouraged by Tito and the communist east more broadly for a variety of reasons, but he certainly didn't come up with Macedonianism. IMRO or some permutation (VMRO claims descent from IMRO) existed before communist yugoslavia.
@@professorquarter It existed from the late 19th - early 20th century only for a very limited number of educated elites who up until that point hadn't even created a concrete idea of what it really meant to be "macedonian". Only during Tito's rule "macedonism" reached the average person who according to numerous sources up until that point self identified as Bulgarian, Serb or Greek...
@@professorquarter Tito ? ? .....
u titov endek.
AND YOU ARE WHO? A HISTORIAN? MACEDONIANS HAVE BEEN MADE WEAK BECAUSE YOU DIVIDED OUR COUNTRY IN THREE PARTS, GAVE SOME TO BULGARIA AND SOME TO GREECE. MACEDONIANS ARE TORTURED TO THIS DAY, HUMILIATED AND THIS ABUSE MUST STOP! THIS INJUSTICE MUST STOP!
This is not a "naming dispute" but an identity dispute which manifests itself through the refusal to accept the new name. The identity of ethnic Macedonians claims continuity from the kingdom of Ancient Macedonia and rejects Greek claims over that heritage, which as you said is ridiculous as it was a Hellenistic state. The name solution was designed to disentangle and separate the identity from ancient Macedonia which rightfully belongs to Greece. Yet when you do your history lesson you start from ancient Macedonia meaning you trace continuity from Alexander the Great which is exactly what ethnic Macedonians do and is the source of the conflict.
The name game regarding FYROM has gone from absurd to almost obscene levels of duplicity and betrayal...
First off, it's time to stop all these pathetic attempts to "re-write" history. Macedonia and Alexander's legacy was
and always will be Greek, carved in ancient stone and marble for all the world to see and that NO AMOUNT of
pathetic geo-political games can change - let alone erase..
The FORMER Yugoslav (so-called) "republic" was and, unless some common sense prevails, always will be a sad state of affairs.
The main reason that the ridiculous "claim" by the bulgaro-skopjianovski leftovers of FYROM has not succeeded in hi-jacking
the ancient Greek name of Macedonia is that, despite all the cynical and hypocritical "realpolitik" games going on in the region,
there are REAL world issues and historical facts that cannot be avoided.
This is why all the "angry demands" and "claims" by these hi-jackers of history which, when seen all together,
only manage to contradict themselves or end up in "indignant" yet baseless and historically absurd "arguments"
and fake statues, costumes and "symbols".
But what is even more absurd and shameful is that any self respecting person or "organization" would give any of these claims any credence.
It is also why the UN and EU are - in the very least - still insisting on a compromise on the name (which is far more
than this fabricated mish-mash of a country deserves) as regrettably, it is deemed that such a settlement will serve
other interests in the region.
Greece though, for historical but more crucially future geo political reasons, should NOT compromise on the "new name"
and how it is used. Given the current "attitude" in the FYROM, they should now even renounce this fraudulent "treaty".
It remains a sad state of affairs when a bunch of bulgaro-skopjianovskis - that are mostly a left over from the Balkan wars
and Tito's clumsy attempts of territorial gains and access to the Mediterranean sea - try to hijack the ancient Greek name of Macedonia
in a pathetic attempt to give themselves a false "identity".
Something which was clearly exposed by then US Secretary of State Edward R. Stettinius in 1944, stating in no uncertain terms that:
"This (US) government considers talk of Macedonian “nation,” Macedonian “fatherland,” or Macedonian “national consciousness”
to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for
aggressive intentions against Greece." This reality remains even if there has been a shift in some quarters of crude US "policy" in the region.
Subsequently, this sad and latest episode of these displaced Bulgarians - who also have to deal with a large Albanian minority
with their own agendas - is more a case of 'the mouse that roared' (with the cynical "support" of those with rather devious agendas in the region)
than a case of legitimate "claims" to any so-called "ethnic" identity.
Slavs, by the way, did not even arrive in the region until AFTER 600AD and - as their first 'president' Gligorov rightly said - have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
to do with Alexander and Macedonia!
Further more it should also be made clear that even Bulgaria - despite it's past and present agendas - doesn't recognize
the existence of "slavo-macedonians" in the so-called republic!!! - quite rightly considering all FYROM "skopjianovskis" as Bulgarians.
On the other hand, the heritage, cities and monuments of Alexander were, are and always will be GREEK, carved in ancient stone and marble
that no devious or pathetic attempts to re-write history - or any brown nosing those who indulge in so-called "great games" in the region - can change, let alone erase.
If the "supporters" of the FYROM genuinely want a solution to the serious problems and stability of this "country" and the Balkans,
it is time to put a stop to this nonsense and deal with the realities of not only the region but also the very serious and very REAL WORLD
social-economic and environmental problems that we ALL have to face in THIS century.
Just look at the fracking hell of a mess the ponzi/casino "economies" of the so-called "united" states of america and king-CONNED-om are in - AGAIN!!!
Given the relentless and ever increasing climatic disasters, it would also be wise to remember that Mother Nature does NOT do "bail outs" or "quantitative easing"...
IT WAS HELLENIC TRIBES AND MACEDONIAN TRIBES. THE MODERN WORLD WANTS TO ERRASE MACEDONIANS BECAUSE IF THEY DO, THE NEIGHBOURING COUNTRIES WIN MORE LAND. IT IS ALL DIRTY POLITICS. UNJUST DIRTY POLITICS THAT ARE ALL ABOUT HUMILIATION AND DISRESPECT.
Грк за забрана на употреба на името Македонија
ruclips.net/video/DgmDw9_pdzc/видео.htmlsi=275cT-dIzLjAzQAu
There never was a peace agreement - the voter turnout for the referendum achieved only a mere 37%, but yet it was somehow pushed through by the EU and US backed political opposition. The phrasing of the referendum is also inherently flawed being:
"Are you in favour of European Union and NATO membership by accepting the agreement between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Greece?"
What if an individual supports EU membership, which Macedonia still hasn't been granted, but opposes a name change? What if an individual supports a name change, but opposes NATO membership?
Is there any other international conflict which has parallels with this one?
The only purpose of the Prespes agreement was to enter Northern Monkeydonia into NATO and was fostered by the U.S and by Germany. It was never meant to be a real solution to the problem . They just kicked the can forward! Now its time for the next episode, however the job is done since N.M is part of NATO.
USA was rushing to surronding Serbia with NATO its reason they bring Montenegro and Macedonia to NATO with out referendums
Cope turk boy
2:25 I am surprised you stated that North Macedonia is anyhow linked to Alexander the Great. The cornestone of the Prespa Agreement is that North Macedonia will refrain from claiming any connection with Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonian symbols.
Maybe I got this wrong, but watching the intro to do this video. There was the Ottoman Province of Macedonia. That got split up between Serbia, Greece, and Bulgaria, and it just so happens that the only sovereign -free part of that former province is the Serbian one. Umm so there is like a concept there that these people grew up in the past seeing themselves as Macedonians, because living in that province. No idea.
IN MAKEDONIJA EVERYTHING IS MACEDONIAN ! ! !
@@MarkVrem There was no Ottoman Province of Macedonia. They never used the name. The Turks called the area the vilayets (provinces) of Selanik (Salonica), Manastir (derived from the Greek name Monastiri, now known as Bitola), and Kosovo.
@@MarkVrem MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA od KRAL FILIP .
zuj... u Nis'ava.
REALLY? NOT TURE. INFACT, ALEXANDER AND FILIP ARE TYPICAL SLAVIC MACEDONIAN NAMES!!!
Imposing orders is not an agreement!! A criminal 'agrement' is not an agreement!!
Imagine that you are a Slav, that you speak Slavic, that your name is Slavic, that you understand the Bulgarian language because it is the same, and yet you say that you are Macedonian
Imagine that you a Slav, that you speak Slavic, that your name is Slavic, that you understand the Bosnia/Croatian/Serbian/Montenegrin language because it is the same, and yet you say you are Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian/Montenegrin. Would you would say this to a Bosnian/Croat/Serb/Montenegrin?
The new president did not call the country The Republic of Macedonia. She called the country “Macedonia”
Please correct your video.
It should be called either West Bulgaria or Vardaria (after the river). There's actually a very old tradition of Macedonian identity being perceived as a "better version of Bulgaria", similarly to the German identity in Austria between the world wars when Austria said its more German than (protestant) Germans (Prussians) mainly because of their catholicism.
Interesting, but I’m not going to rise to the bait! I did a video on Bulgarian-Macedonian identity and got 7000 angry comments from irate Bulgarians. 😀 That said, I always thought Vardar Macedonia might have been a good alternative.
Not so fast bratko, the northern and western parts professed strong Serbian and pro-Serbian identity up until Tito's anti-Serbian policy of macedonization post WWII. If Bulgarians weren't so dumb to attack us in 1913, we could have made a deal, and you could have kept 1/2 of today's North Macedonia. Instead, we both lost, but the defeat cost us way more as we lost almost 25% of our entire population in WWI thanks to your back-stabbing involvement in 1915.
@@JamesKerLindsay lets call it rumelia lol
Time for a rename party?
@@BozaCukuranovic3223.............. gnjuri .
u Nis'ava.
If these guys are so obsessed with claiming the heritage of Alexander and ancient Macedonia then they should just stop speaking Slavic and adopt Greek, they are only ridiculing themselves by their weird claims.
Engaging with historical retrospectives on North Macedonia requires acknowledging the impact of the 1934 Comintern resolution. It significantly influenced the (forceful) development of Macedonian national identity. Thoughts?
Ignoring the 1934 Comintern resolution and CCCP/Soviet history overlooks a key factor in shaping current North Macedonian politics. #BalkanHistory en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resolution_of_the_Comintern_on_the_Macedonian_question
MACEDONIAN IDENTITY 25 CENTURIES from KING FILIP .
Do you know why Greece is so scared of one little country like Macedonia?
Macedonia is a region, stop playing the victim card.
Because of Ohrana, SNOF and NOF
You do realise Skopja is already making military deals with Turkey and if a war happens Turkey could open up a new front against Greece via Skopja
@@DCCrisisclips SKOPJE TOWN IN MAKEDONIJA.
you in black.
Macedonia!!!! Never North!!
.not north macedonia
Not even macedonia
Only SKOPIA that's your real name.
@@jorgepeters7474 MАКЕДОНИЈА!!! НИКОГАШ СЕВЕРНА!!! ЌЕ СИ ПУКНИТЕ...СЕ ДА ВИБАМ! :))
Just a few corrections. The new Macedonian president signed the Presidential oath with the formal new name the 'Republic of North Macedonia'. However, she verbally didn't say 'Republic of North Macedonia' when repeating the oath. Instead, she just said Macedonia instead of 'Republic of North Macedonia'. It was the common practice of previous President Pendarovski to verbally say either Macedonia or North Macedonia and Greece never complained. There is nothing wrong with this. It's like a politician from the United States saying America instead of the United States of America or a British politician saying Britain instead of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This is just a storm in a tea cup, just another Greek politician being a typical drama queen ahead of elections.
You forgot to mention that after the name was changed in the parliament contrary to the will of the opinion as expressed in the referendum, there was a veto by France to stop the opening of EU negotiations with Macedonia. The French then found another country to do their dirty work in Bulgaria. The Russian supported Bulgarian President was happy to oblige by carrying out his Russian and French orders.
Thanks. I did in fact explicitly cover the referendum and noted that it failed to receive the required threshold. As for the name, I accept that people may make mistakes occasionally. It happens. And they may even use a shorthand. Britain is wrong, it should be the United Kingdom, but many politicians use it. But the new president was making a very clear political point at a crucial moment. She knew exactly what she was doing and the effects that it would have. It would be as if a new King used Britain in his coronation after having been given the words United Kingdom to say. This would send out a very clear and powerful message.
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes, you mentioned the referendum. You didn't mention that following the name change, France was the first country to veto the start of Macedonia's EU negotiations. You only mentioned Bulgaria's veto, which followed the French veto. The real problem for Greece wasn't not the name, the problem was that an independent Macedonian state might start pushing for the minority rights of the ethnic Macedonians in Greece. Konstantinos Mitsotakis (the father of the current greek PM) said that he 'doesn't have a problem with the name but doesn't want to create a second minority problem in Greece' (he considered the ethnic Turks to be the first minority problem).
@@Stefan_Mileski There will never be a minority issue. The majority of Slav-speakers in Greece descend from Patriarchists who supported the Greek cause over the Bulgarian cause. The Rainbow Party that claims to represent this so-called minority has never participated in a Greek national election, and it's no accident that the party's founder was educated in Belgrade during the communist era. The idea of Greece recognizing a Macedonian minority within a Macedonian majority is as ridiculous as it sounds, and no outside power will ever attempt to impose that on Greece. A few supporters in a handful of Florina villages (a very tiny portion of Macedonia) can get Rainbow funding from some lunatics in Canada and Australia, but that's about it.
It's like the President of the United States repeating the oath by saying "President of Tijuana" or "President of Ontario".
@@gnazlis No, its like the American President saying that they are the President of America.
The signing of the Prespa agreement was political move the incubant PM of Greece signed, as he knew he would be loosing upcoming elections. What you call "North Macedonia" is not geographically, ethnically, linguistically connected to the empire of Alexander the Great. "Macedonian" Is a slavic language that has nothing to do with Alexander the Great in any way. Calling themselves "Macedonia" is just an attention seeking move to distinguish themselves from other slavic countries.
MAKEDONCI 25 VEKA govorat Makedonski jazik ! ! ! ! !
@@tatjanavelkova5814Yes the Greek language in the GREEK region of Macedonia has been spoken for many centuries.
@@THEGreatGM20 MAKEDONIJA E NA MAKEDONCI .
f a s' i s t.
Ok so you are saying that I am a fascist because I support my countries province. You can call yourself whatever you want but "Macedonian" is not one of them. The self entitlement you have is crazy. This is absurd, imagine Greeks suddenly saying that they are the descendants of the Mongol empire. It makes no sense whatsoever. Macedonia is Greek and your ethnic group just happened to settle in a region close to GREEK Macedonia(not in Greek Macedonia) and you decided that you wanted a part of it. You have nothing to do with Greece since you have a slavic background. I think it's crucial for us to embrace our heritage and thus you should embrace your Slavic background and be proud of it instead of trying to interfere with Greece.
SOUTH MACEDONIA IS UNJUSTLY IN GREECE, THAT BELONGS TO MACEDONIA WITH HIGHEST MACEDONIAN POPULATION AND SLAVIC HISTORY!
EU accession? North Macedonia like other countries in Europe (as in whole world) have a nationalistic and populist government. Since they couldn't able to secure the sweet money of Brussels and just stay out licking the ears of their voters. Many other countries in EU with similar governments would like to do leave but since they are in, it is soooo sweet the funds (and have see the example of Brexit) to say no and leave.
I don't see a problem Macedonians van call themselvs how they want in their country called Macedonia, Macedonia for the Macedonians.
Macedonians are Greeks
They aren't Greeks , they could join Greece
You would think that North Macedonia, a small landlocked state needing development, would do everything possible to reasonably get along with and integrate with neighbors.
evidently you've never met the stubborn people of the Balkans
Getting along with your neighbours doesn't mean they can decide the name of your children.
@@user-uw7yb6qq6h Sure, names like Branko and Goran. Sounds like the Serbs name your children.
@@sirbobloblaws The Slavic language group is the largest language group in Europe. Deal with it.
@@user-uw7yb6qq6h I have little issue with Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats, Slovenians, Bosnians, and most others.
professor you have probably confused history northern Macedonia never had an empire ancient Macedonia was the empire which was Greek so don't say northern Macedonia again when you refer to the empire of filipos and Alexander the Great
MAKEDONIJA 25 CENTURIES. Greece 190 years.
Compared to Israel Palestine this seems kind of frivolous
yes cuz all the killing and genocide happened low and slow from 18-th century till 1950's
True. We limit ourselves to yelling at each other online.
To the uninitiated, looking at this issue for the first time, it seems audacious for one country (or several) to require another country to change its name! On pain of not acceding to the EU or other associations.
It is a shame that there are irredentist entities like VMRO who do not recognize borders and territory in our day
Yeah it is, but what more audacious is renegading a treaty that already signed and ratified by both parties!
*Ironically, until 1988, Greece's well-documented policy was that Macedonia did not exist, and it violently tried to eradicate its very existence. Then, for fear that it would lose the part of Macedonia that it annexed in 1913, Greece's propaganda machine changed course to claiming that Macedonia's land belongs to them, while the people still do not exist*
*Greece did not call Macedonia but “The New Territory” in 1913. They was renamed the Governorate-General of Northern Greece in 1955 because it was combined with the Governorate-General of Thrace. It was renamed to the Ministry of Macedonia and Thrace in 1988*
Total Srboman propaganda. Macedonia has been used by Greece as a place-name continuously since 1912/13, the 'Macedonia' (Makedonia) newspaper has been been published daily in Thessalonica since 1911, the position of Macedonian governor-general was part of various Greek governments pre-1988, and a government ministry called 'Macedonia' has existed off and on since the Balkan Wars.
The communist Yugoslav government that took power in 1944 deported, jailed or killed thousands of Bulgarian intellectuals who refused to follow the new 'Macedonian' ethnicity imposed by Tito's totalitarian regime. When will the warped Frankenstein Srboman regime in Skopje finally take responsibility for taking part in denying and destroying its Bulgarian heritage and history? When will they admit to destroying the ancient, medieval and modern Greek heritage of cities such as Monastiri (Bitola), where my grandparents were born?
MAKEDONIJA EXIST 25 CENTURIES. Greece -- 190 years.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 Go home, Tatjana, you're drunk again.
@@sirbobloblaws I am home in MAKEDONIJA .
srb @.
According to the "Treaty of Bucarest" ( 1913 ) the macedonian territory was given as a gift to "greece" and "bulgaria" -- to be used for a period of 100 years -- and then to be given back to the rest of Vardar Macedonia. In 2013 the deal ran off and they ( greece and bulgaria ) had to give us back the land they stole. But they refuse, silently, to give us back what legally belongs to us. That's why they are so ferocious and that's why they REFUSE any historical revisionism. REMEMBER : 2013 !!!!
Very well informed indeed. Two remarks only.
1. When the country was officially under the name FYROM, in all official documents of EU, UN and USA were referred to as "Macedonian", as opposed to today that is "North Macedonian".
2. The current government which voted against the Prespa agreement, never finalized the remaining aspects of the deal.
You should have emphasized these more. It is very important for understanding both the importance of the agreement for Greece and today's North Macedonian reaction. The deal was a half win for both countries. Finally there were agreements for the Greek air force to patrol North Macedonian borders, a deal that was never applied from the current government of Mitsotakis.
MAKEDONIJA, MACEDONIA IS DIVIDED IN THREE PARTS, PIRIN, EGEJSKA AND VARDARSKA. THEY DIVIDED MACEDONIA UNJUSTLY, THEY GAVE ONE PART TO BULGARIA, ONE PART TO GREECE AND ONE PART TO FYROM. MAKEDONIA UNITED!!!! MACEDONIAN POPULATION IN GREECE HAS BEEN ABUSED TILL THIS DAY!
Големо ни е името, ќе сакаат да ни го земат!
Е да не кажем,че българското е по голямо име ...Какви гърци,какви македонци...??? Има само България...!!!
Е па, да! Името ви требе да биде Пеоно-Дарданиja. Поздрави од американски потомак на македонски БУГАРИ од Солун!
@@Ecoman365 Името ни е тракобългари...!!! Ако още незнаеш...
"OUR NAME MAKEDONIJA IS BIG, THEY WILL WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM US"......FROM A HISTORIAN.
Hey dude, what are you talking about: “North Macedonians are speaking south Slavic language”!?!? The language is Bulgarian, the name of the country is Greek. This country is Soviet communist creation. But “south Slavic language…” Sure, USA and Canada are speaking Western European language, how about that?
The SFRY is not Soviet. Macedonia was given its modern identity by Lazar Kolisevski, member of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia and the partisans that liberated Yugoslavia from Nazi filth.
MAKEDONCI 25 VEKA govorat Makedonski jazik ! ! ! ! !
It’s encouraging that the EU and broader international community should show respect for a formally-agreed treaty between Greece and North Macedonia, however it was made. To do otherwise would make the world order even more chaotic and dangerous than already it is. 🤷♂️
The name game regarding FYROM has gone from absurd to almost obscene levels of duplicity and betrayal...
First off, it's time to stop all these pathetic attempts to "re-write" history. Macedonia and Alexander's legacy was
and always will be Greek, carved in ancient stone and marble for all the world to see and that NO AMOUNT of
pathetic geo-political games can change - let alone erase..
The FORMER Yugoslav (so-called) "republic" was and, unless some common sense prevails, always will be a sad state of affairs.
The main reason that the ridiculous "claim" by the bulgaro-skopjianovski leftovers of FYROM has not succeeded in hi-jacking
the ancient Greek name of Macedonia is that, despite all the cynical and hypocritical "realpolitik" games going on in the region,
there are REAL world issues and historical facts that cannot be avoided.
This is why all the "angry demands" and "claims" by these hi-jackers of history which, when seen all together,
only manage to contradict themselves or end up in "indignant" yet baseless and historically absurd "arguments"
and fake statues, costumes and "symbols".
But what is even more absurd and shameful is that any self respecting person or "organization" would give any of these claims any credence.
It is also why the UN and EU are - in the very least - still insisting on a compromise on the name (which is far more
than this fabricated mish-mash of a country deserves) as regrettably, it is deemed that such a settlement will serve
other interests in the region.
Greece though, for historical but more crucially future geo political reasons, should NOT compromise on the "new name"
and how it is used. Given the current "attitude" in the FYROM, they should now even renounce this fraudulent "treaty".
It remains a sad state of affairs when a bunch of bulgaro-skopjianovskis - that are mostly a left over from the Balkan wars
and Tito's clumsy attempts of territorial gains and access to the Mediterranean sea - try to hijack the ancient Greek name of Macedonia
in a pathetic attempt to give themselves a false "identity".
Something which was clearly exposed by then US Secretary of State Edward R. Stettinius in 1944, stating in no uncertain terms that:
"This (US) government considers talk of Macedonian “nation,” Macedonian “fatherland,” or Macedonian “national consciousness”
to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for
aggressive intentions against Greece." This reality remains even if there has been a shift in some quarters of crude US "policy" in the region.
Subsequently, this sad and latest episode of these displaced Bulgarians - who also have to deal with a large Albanian minority
with their own agendas - is more a case of 'the mouse that roared' (with the cynical "support" of those with rather devious agendas in the region)
than a case of legitimate "claims" to any so-called "ethnic" identity.
Slavs, by the way, did not even arrive in the region until AFTER 600AD and - as their first 'president' Gligorov rightly said - have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
to do with Alexander and Macedonia!
Further more it should also be made clear that even Bulgaria - despite it's past and present agendas - doesn't recognize
the existence of "slavo-macedonians" in the so-called republic!!! - quite rightly considering all FYROM "skopjianovskis" as Bulgarians.
On the other hand, the heritage, cities and monuments of Alexander were, are and always will be GREEK, carved in ancient stone and marble
that no devious or pathetic attempts to re-write history - or any brown nosing those who indulge in so-called "great games" in the region - can change, let alone erase.
If the "supporters" of the FYROM genuinely want a solution to the serious problems and stability of this "country" and the Balkans,
it is time to put a stop to this nonsense and deal with the realities of not only the region but also the very serious and very REAL WORLD
social-economic and environmental problems that we ALL have to face in THIS century.
Just look at the fracking hell of a mess the ponzi/casino "economies" of the so-called "united" states of america and king-CONNED-om are in - AGAIN!!!
Given the relentless and ever increasing climatic disasters, it would also be wise to remember that Mother Nature does NOT do "bail outs" or "quantitative easing"...
Did his nose manage to walk out in protest as well?
Professor I think at around 2:20 you made a mistake calling the ancient kingdom of Macedonia as "North Macedonia"
Thanks. Unfortunately, this seems to becoming up a lot. I said that North Macedonia has a long history. This should not be contentions. We routinely refer to the history of countries long before they existed. Greece is a great case in point. We talk of its long history, even though it only became a state in 1830. But referring to the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia doesn’t mean that North Macedonia is some sort of direct successor to that. That would be illogical in every way. But it was necessary to raise the kingdom in order to explain why the current disputes between Greece and North Macedonia have arisen. Sadly, some appear to want to read this as suggesting a direct link. I didn’t say that. And it never entered my head that it could or would be interpreted in that way. Thanks for pointing it out. I just wish that many others had done so in a polite way. Instead they have been throwing abuse. Sadly, to non-Greeks this will only reinforce the view that many Greeks are unpleasantly irrational on this issue.
@@JamesKerLindsay As a Cypriot Greek I would agree with my compatriots or other Greeks who are angry on this issue. It's like calling England a Spanish province or something as ridiculous as that. There are limits to what one can listen to or read about and not reply. Therefore it is prompt to correct things so that they are not misunderstood my anyone. Thanks.
@@alkishadjinicolaou5831 Based and Mary Tudor-pilled
NOTE: It seems it was a problem with the translation. I have also now edited the video to correct any misinterpretation.
So... North Macedonia is trolling Greece big time?
Konstantinos Mitsotakis (the father of the current greek Prime Minister) said that he 'doesn't have a problem with the name of the country Macedonia but doesn't want to create a second minority problem in Greece' (he considered the ethnic Turks to be the first minority problem).
Civil War is still a fairly recent memory. You Bulgarians had your chances. Never again.
What are your thoughts on Tigray getting independence from Ethiopia? They have article 39 in their constitution that allows it, but there’s many complexities with international recognition
What? Who "has a long history"? "North" what? 🧐🧐🧐
So... Greece is actually South Macedonia?
That's a bit true actually, since greece occupied macedonia in 1912
@@petar4968 Where was your army in 1912? Oh yeah, they all volunteered for the Bulgarian army.
@@petar4968 SE" NAJUBAVO ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA
CORRECT. SOUTH MACEDONIA, A HUGE CHUNK OF GREECE IS SOUTH MACEDONIA. MAJORITY POPULATION MACEDONIAN WITH OUR CENTRAL HISTORY OF OUR SLAVIC MACEDONIAN SAINTS AND ALOT MORE.
MAKEDONSKI NAROD 25 VEKA od KRAL FILIP ! ! !
So they are the Former Yugoslavic Republic Of Macedonia again
10:39 Correction - she used the term "Macedonia", not "Republic of Macedonia".
Either way, she did not use North Macedonia.
@JamesKerLindsay She did, on the declaration she signed.
Human right is to declare my self as i want to be and i want to feel, change the name to tanzania but we are macedonians
In other news, Canada is changing its name to "The Republic of North Dakota." US Ambassador insists they instead use the name "North North Dakota."
The difference is that radical elements have spoken about "reuniting" Macedonia in the past. There are fears that the naming dispute could lead to a territorial dispute or worse. In a region as volatile as the Balkans, you can see why both Bulgaria and Greece are nervous about North Macedonia potentially laying claim to territory and people that live in their borders.
If you think about it, it is not so far from the rambling speech that Putin made in February 2022 about the historical links and claim that Russia has to Kyiv, and how the city is both the birthplace and historical heart of Russia (I can't remember the exact wording).
Hopefully, you can see then why this may seem incredibly trivial at first glance (because it is), but it makes people nervous, due to its potential to escalate to something much worse.
@@solsunman383 There are no fears at all, that's a tool your Greek politicians use to justify their bigotry and gain popularity amongst nationalist and ultimately win votes, we are smaller than you, with fewer people fewer resources and an army with 6000 personal which had 0.7 of GDP military expenditure for years before we joined NATO. Should Turks take the Greek radical elements of taking back Constantinople seriously?
Pozdrav braćo Makedonci iz Beograda. Nikada sjeverna, samo Makedonija 🇷🇸❤🇲🇰
Professor, I’m struggling to understand the part of the video that is pointing out the Roman territory of Macedonia also included Ancient Macedonian history beforehand. Is this to point out why modern Macedonians should want uphold the Prespa in some way? Or is this to show people (especially many Greeks) that North Macedonia does somewhat have a connection to the ancient kingdom so they should stop being so stubborn about the name? Or maybe you’re just merely informing us the historical background so people understand where the name dispute stems from, and calling it “rich” in an effort to satisfy both sides? I genuinely don’t know.
It is to show why Greece is unhappy about the appropriation of Greek history. Frankly, if I hadn’t included it, there would have been a lot of angry Greek viewers arguing that I had whitewashed the Greek heritage of Macedonia. It is a no win situation. And I think it possible to say that Macedonia, however defined, has a very rich history - a highly contentious rich history. That’s the problem.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you. That makes sense. I think because of the way your video transitioned from North Macedonia to the Macedonian territory, a lot of people are completely misinterpreting this part as you stating something like “the unique Hellenistic history of the modern country of North Macedonia is where the history of Alexander/Macedon belongs (not really Greece despite being Hellenic)”. I believe this misunderstanding is 10 times more likely to get rise out of Greek viewers, history buffs, etc. than whitewashing allegations.
@@universetraveler5826 MACEDONIAN HISTORY 25 CENTURIES.
Greece 190 years.
@@tatjanavelkova5814 North Macedonian history, 30 years. Greek history, 3600 years+
MAKEDONIJA EXIST 25 CENTURIES. Greece 190 years.
No one in macedonia wanted to change the name to north macedonia, how can you. Change your name when your not north macedonia but just macedonia, macedonians do not jave territorial claims of aegean macedonia as macedonia is in nato and proceeds to EU and is a friendly small country I've been there 2 times
Why did this Italian linguist write for the existence of the Macedonian language 500 years ago
1539 Theseus Ambrogio Albonese (1469-1540/41) is an Italian humanist from the period of the Italian Renaissance, of Christian (Catholic) and a harbinger of Orientalism. His most important work is the book Chaldaicam linguam, Syriacam, atque Armenicam, & decem alias linguas. Published in 1539, in which the church psalms are translated from several languages, and the languages of the time and the alphabet used by the nations as a means of written communication are noted. , Syrian Arabic, Hebrew... they also include Macedonian, which is listed as a separate language different from Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian*
*You can freely find that book of his in the original on the net*
There is no commenter here, because before the fact both Pontic Greeks and Tatar Bulgarians are silent
@@Gotze.Delchev.Reborn MAKEDONCI 25 VEKA.
q q .
Macedonia to the Macedonians 🇲🇰☀️🌞
Yes for the Greeks !! Well said
@@davidscwimer1974........... dzamp
in greek wc.
"the country's ancient history" ??? the country has no ancient history. Get your facts strait.
So, why was Greece so determined to ensure that the Hellenistic era was recognised under the agreement? The territorial history of every modern country stretches back long before the country existed. This should be beyond contestation. Indeed, by your logic, Greece has no claim to its ancient history. I readily accept the Roman heritage of Britain without claiming that Britain was Rome. Let’s not be so unduly touchy about all this. The country that is North Macedonia has a long history. North Macedonia is a new country.
The difference is that Romans were Romans not British and ancient Macedonians were Greeks not Slavs
indeed. And I’m not disputing or undermining that. I specifically said that the modern Macedonians speak a Slavic language. It’s just sad that a lot of commenters seem to want to make inferences that simply weren’t there! This issue really does bring out the very worst in some Greeks. Το λέω ως κάποιος που έχει ζήσει στην Ελλάδα και μιλάει ελληνικά!
@@JamesKerLindsay im sure it does. Its a very sensitive matter for Greeks and their history - heritage.
@@archon1972......
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES ARE MACEDONIANS ! ! ! ! !
If the Macedonians and the Greeks were the same people, then there was no need for Alexander the Great to call himself King of the Macedonians and the Greeks, but just King of the Greeks. In his five-century old book Mauro Orbini says that because the Macedonians have their own language, which didn’t just fall from the sky, it is clear that they have always spoken the same language.
If that was true in 1525, when the book was written, then it is very probable that Alexander and Samoil spoke the same language. According to Orbini, Alexander, Samoil and Saint Clement would have no problem understanding each other in their mother tongue in 1525.
The jokes write themselves.
For anyone that has read what the delusional bulgarian wrote above , Samoil was defeated by Basil the BULGARSLAYER , Samoil was a Bulgarian as he wrote himself but brainwashed people can change his nationality as they also change their own.
Don't take my word for it do your own research.
Also try google translating "macedonian" language text but instead of using "macedonian" to english for example try using the same text but bulgarian to english , it works every time .
Cause it's bulgarian.
@@TheManigasYou forgot to comment that Alexander spoked the same (Slavic) language as Samouil…💀😂😆🤣
"Orbin's work The Realm of the Slavs was also the main source used by Paisius of Hilendar to write his Istoriya Slavyanobolgarskaya, the most influential work of early Bulgarian historiography, in 1762."
Orbin considered your ancestors to be Bulgarian.
"...you should say to the King [King of Persia] who sent you, that A HELLENE [Alexander I of Macedon], the Grandmaster of Macedon, welcomed you...."
King Alexander I of Macedon
Herodotus [5.20.4]
"πρὸς δὲ καὶ βασιλέϊ τῷ πέμψαντι ἀπαγγείλητε ὡς ἀνὴρ Ἕλλην, Μακεδὼν ὕπαρχος, εὖ ὑμέας ἐδέξατο"
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and THE REST OF HELLAS (Greece) and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed LEADER OF THE GREEKS, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..."
Alexander the Great
Alexander's letter to Persian king Darius in response to a truce plea, as quoted in Anabasis Alexandri by Arrian; translated as Anabasis of Alexander by P. A. Brunt, for the "Loeb Edition" Book II 14, 4
Added to what I have suggested they have no connection to the history of Macedonia as the history of Macedonia is Greek not Slavic
There is no need to argue, the correct name is Vardarska, it is also a historical name.lol
Long live Macedonia🇲🇰
@@mikele9878It is flattering that your existence is based on the history of an ancient Hellenic kingdom. It really is a testament to the influence Ancient Greece had on the region.
Your historically accurate name is yunanistan
Vardarska Makedonija in English means = Macedonia by the river Vardar ("axios") that accompanies entire Macedonia down to the Aegean sea.
This name existed for only 20-30 years in history, where as our name Macedonia, exists for over 2000+ years.
@@MrSlayerpro12 Ancient Greece had lots of influence on every culture that's now considered western. The Romans, and through them every French/Germanic people, including British and American. What is this supposed to prove?
Great video professor. Do you think North Macedonia should join the EU? I am asking because when a eastern european country joins a lot of its young population goes to the west and never returns. This happened to my country - Bulgaria. In the past few years a lot of people have returned but it took more than a decade for the living standert to improve (and this is still just for people with university diploma. Normal jobs are still ridiculously low paid). Does North Macedonia have that time? I know that in large part thanks to EU Romania is closing its living standard to Western Europe, but could North Macedonia do the same and will it be in time so their young population will choose to stay? We certainly are not in the same position as the romanians. While Bulgaria is much better now than before 2007 we still have a lot of problems and while a teacher salary can provide a so so living it's very hard save money if you live alone and pay rent. Hope to read your answer.
In 30-40 years Macedonia will be mayority Albanians which are so nationalistic so they will just call it East Albania
@@dzonikg MAKEDONIJA vo JUZ'NA EVROPA .
ti u cigli.
LOL you managed to do the first 3 minutes without mentioning the Ancient Greeks or Byzantine Greeks legacy or the Greek province of Macedonia --- that will annoy the Greeks watching :)
Indeed. I’ve already got lots of Greek nationalists who have completely misinterpreted the video - deliberately, I suspect - shouting abuse because of some slight that doesn’t even make sense. Some days I really and truly dislike working on the Balkans. The name issue was a truly miserable and mean spirited issue. I am now reminded why.
@@JamesKerLindsayHah I tend to be good-natured with my Danish, Greek and Macedonian acquaintances.....The Greeks and the Danes (and Crimean Tatars) are about the only modern European countries who territories have shrunk over the last 700 years, so I can understand why they are super-sensitive. I found Danes just as super-sensitive as the Greeks, but the former being introverted - a generalisation of course - don't necessarily show any signs of permanently crossing you off their Xmas card list if you mention how you love how Swedish Skania is or how you love visiting Flensburg as it has a real true German feel to it lol:).
@@JamesKerLindsay Terminology matters, though I don't expect you to keep up with it all as a non-Balkanite.
@@ashleynz2575 The modern concept of Greece as an ethnostate of the Hellenic people only originated in the 19th century with the advent of nationalism. To say that the territory of Greece has “shrunk” in the last 700 years is a bit absurd, as the modern state of Greece has only existed for about 200 years.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you very kindly. I know how you feel. The mean spirited neighbours of Macedonia, abused their rights and privilege of being EU members. IMO, this happened because of the chaos in the EU and lack of leadership by the EU, by allowing member states to add additional conditions for EU/NATO membership.
Prof. Ker-Lindsay, I have been following your videos for a relatively long time now and I usually really appreciate your input. However, regarding this one, I have to express my objections to the way you framed the topic. The sentence "North Macedonia has an extraordinarily long and rich history" is, for a fact, incorrect. "The TERRITORY of North Macedonia has an extraordinarily long and rich history" is something completely different. I have seen how you respond to other comments and you are surprisingly hard in your stance, considering a person with your experience and knowledge should know better than to not pick his words extremely carefully when tackling a complex topic as this. The populations of both Greece and Bulgaria will never agree to recognize "North Macedonia" as what the so-called Macedonians imagine they are.
Thank you for the comment. Point well taken. I have slightly edited that section to remove the word "North" to avoid any confusion. Macedonia, as a region, has a long and rich history.
YOU MUST BE GREEK TELLING OTHERS WHAT IS CORRECT WHAT IS NOT AND ALL LIES. SHOULD HE RE-WRITE HIS VIDEO TOO TO PLEASE YOU AND YOUR LIES AND NON-SENSE? STOP TO LIES ABUSE AND HUMILIATION, THE GREEK NATION HAS TO PAY FOR THE TORTURE TO THE MACEDONIANS FOR DECADES.
There is also a Greek minority!
A vanishingly small one.
@@JamesKerLindsay not really. Just hiding and afraid!
How many macedonians are I greece tell me
@@silahim79 afraid of the big bad wolf?
@@johnofdebar4071 yes, how did you know?
Every Greek I've met has said "Macedonia is Greek"
Part of historical Macedonia is indeed Greek. But part is now North Macedonia.
@@JamesKerLindsayancient Macedonia lies almost exclusively within modern Greece. That’s what Greece consider as part of their history and culture. What we now refer to as the broader geographical region of Macedonia has expanded, and at times even moved eastwards. I’m the Prespa agreement, Greece recognised that what we now consider the modern broader geographic region of Macedonia (which more or less came to be accepted in the modern period), makes part of Greece, North Macedonia, southwest Bulgaria, and southeast Albania. Thus all history of ancient Macedonia is a part of the Greek nation, and Greece is the only claimant to this. Both historically and culturally.
@@JamesKerLindsaya very very very small part, the rest is peonia
Not only Greeks... every world historians and every single person with proper education tells that except the 'historians' of NM.
But hey...what can we do as humans when God Himself failed by giving them eyes, ears, and brain to see the truth?
türkiye and macedonia is brother..and atatürk is a macedonian .....we are with real macedonia (north)
I still can't understand why a Slavic people want to adapt a non-Slavic name and its heritage. There is no linguistic nor historic link there. As a Greek, I wouldn't like my country to be called South Bulgaria or, even worst, just Bulgaria. Anyway, a deal was struck in good faith and I thought it was behind us. Now instead of putting their energy into growth and prosperity, they latch on an identity that isn't theirs in a self-destructive manner...
Wr haven't addopted anything. It's always been our name. I was born in 1981 and ever since I can remember the name of the country has been Macedonia, tha language was macedonian and we've all benn Macedonians. The same is true about my parents who were born in the 1950s. Nobody chooses/adopts their name. It's something that is inherited frome our ancestors. Or maybe you'd like to explain how your ancestors changed their name from Romei to Helleni in late 18th century?
The great paradox was that Greece created the modern state of NM, just to grab some more land from Ottomans.
I am Macedonian, and I can answer you that question.
Why is your name Gnazlis? (or whatever your real name is), is it because you wanted to adapt something? No, it is because you were given that name far earlier than you could ever choose.
Same thing with Macedonia. Our name comes from our land. And our land has been called Macedonia, for over 2000+ years.
And we are very proud of our Slavic side, we conquered all of Europe.
@@jean-luc_picard It was Serbia, not Greece, that grabbed the territory that became modern-day NM.
@@joejohnson6327 MAKEDONIJA 25 VEKA vo JUZ'NA EVROPA.
ti.... u cigli.
Yeah okay 2:20 you just lost me. it's just blatant misinformation regarding history. I came here looking for a respectable analysis and im greeted with lies and deceit.
You actually associated North Macedonia with Alexander the Great and his Hellenistic empire in your introduction? Do your homework Professor, the North Macedonians who identify as Macedonian are Bulgarian speaking Slavs, not Greek Speakers with a Greek identity like Alexander was. Furthermore, the ancient Kingdom of Macedonia was centered in what is now the Greek province of Macedonia. They are Slav Bulgars who have robbed a history and identity that is not theirs.
Seriously, I’m not sure how many times I have to say this: if I didn’t mention it, the reasons why Greece was so upset about the issue of Alexander wouldn’t have been understood to outsiders. And if I didn’t mention, you would have been furious that I was whitewashing the link between Greece, Macedonia and Alexander. I was also clear that the modern Macedonians deal a South Slavic language and that the identity was essentially constructed by Yugoslavia. Seriously, this is why people became so frustrated with Greece on this issue. One couldn’t win. And it seems one still can’t!
That doesn't change the fact that we WERE WE ARE AND WE WILL BE ALWAYS MACEDONIANS, no one can change that
@@JamesKerLindsay the Macedonian identity was not constructed in Yugoslavia. The idea of a separete Macedonian identity rose after the 1870s, when Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia started competing for Ottoman Macedonia. After WWII, the Yugoslav government just recognised its existance.
Macedonians living in Macedonia have both Slavic and ancient heritige. Legends and customs dating back to antiquity are still strong among Macedonians. We speak a Slavic language, but our culture is closely tied with the Eastern Mediterranean region.
@@JamesKerLindsay Professor, some things are just factually inaccurate and that was. I know you mentioned the rest. I don't personally care if anyone got frustrated with Greece. The fact is Greece and those who have the right to claim a historical connection to ancient Macedonia, as in the Greek speaking population of what was historical ancient Macedonia, were/are being robbed and unfortunately, appeasing, some would argue traitorous, elements in the Greek elite, have compromised history and reality by giving a Bulgarian Slavic people the right to use even the term North Macedonia as a description for the state north of Greece's Macedonian province, and the right to label a Slavic Bulgarian dialect as a Macedonian language. Its disgusting; a perversion of history and identity and will no doubt cause all sorts of tensions going forward.
MACEDONIANS 25 CENTURIES speak Macedonian language .
Amazing and insightful video, James!
It’s amazing how something so trivial like a similar name for outsiders be a divisive and thorny topic for governments to even consider ending peace deals. But it is nevertheless understandable to a certain extent.
I think North Macedonia will eventually have to accept the validity of the peace agreement while pushing their identity assertions to its limit given integration with EU is better in the long term compared to being isolated or even dependent on alternatives like China or Russia.
Keep up the amazing work, James! Hope you’ll consider covering more on Southeast Asia in your list.
You have Kosovo which is Serbian name for "field off blackbird" or "Kosovo polje" which is field where "battle off Kosovo" was between Serbs and Ottomans (and that battle was named by that field" ,actually full name in Yugoslavia was "Province off Kosovo and Metohija " where Metohija mean in Serbian 'church land" ,so west illegally recognized country that is name by one field in Serbian langue
North Macedonians are Bulgarians
No.
No we aren’t
напрај си днк тест да не плукаш по својте во спротивно би требало да си арап
YES!
And Albanians
Soon in schengen zone Macedonians brothers and sisters from Republic of Macedonia, Aegean and Pirin will be together. 🇲🇰❤️
Aegean and Pyrenean Macedonia are impatiently waiting for that to happen
grci ukrali Egejska Makedonija. bugari ukrali Pirinska.
dogovor 1913 : Grcija na MAKEDONIJA vrak'a Egejska Makedonija.
Bulgaria na MAKEDONIJA vrak'a Pirinska Makedonija .
grci ukrali Egejska Makedonija. bugari -- Pirinska. srbi -- Vardarska.
dogovor 1913 : Grcija vrak'a Egejska Makedonija, Bulgaria vrak'a Pirinska .
Srbija na MAKEDONIJA vrak'a Vardarska Makedonija .
really interesting - I love the way you go wayyyy back in time with these explainers!
maybe you could do a video about the current state of EU candidate countries ... I'd love to understand why certain countries are opposing other countries joining the EU.
Is there a football or some other program going on in the background?
If the country is called Macedonia: the Greeks are unhappy because it negates their historical heritage.
If the country is called North Macedonia, but with the denomination of "Macedonian" for the language and people, then Bulgaria is unhappy because it negates their cultural heritage in the region. Also, Greece is still unhappy.
And if the country is called anything other but "Macedonia", then it negates the identity of the people living in the country.
Sounds like there could be no compromise. Although I have a proposal that is going to infuriate everyone equally:
Republic of North Alexandria and West Bulgaria
In favor🤚
This issue will never be solved Tsiparas and Zaev manage to put a band aid on it.
1539 Theseus Ambrogio Albonese (1469-1540/41) is an Italian humanist from the period of the Italian Renaissance, representative of Christian (Catholic) Kabbalism and harbinger of Orientalism. His most important work is the book Chaldaicam linguam, Syriacam, atque Armenicam, & decem alias linguas. Published in 1539, in which the church psalms are translated from several languages, and the languages of the time and the alphabet used by the peoples as a means of written communication are recorded. In his book, he makes a language alphabetic parallel between several languages such as Latin, Greek, Dalmatian , Syriac, Arabic, Hebrew... including Macedonian, which is listed as a separate language apart from Greek, Serbian and Bulgarian.
You can freely find that book of his in the original on the net.
Looks Bulgarian speaks Bulgarian worships Bulgarian… it must be Bulgarian 😂 or Albanian
@@davidscwimer1974........... jedi ..... c'varke .
From all the conversation, I gather it's like the Republic of Turkey (or Türkiye, should I write?) changing its name to the Byzantine Republic. Yeah, it's the same land, but different people.
Just one note the new president used only Macedonia and not Republic of Macedonia. I don't know if it makes any difference.
Thanks. I think in this context the crucial point is that she didn’t use “North Macedonia”.