*Corrections: PWA does organize some events themselves. PWA can specify more than 2 for each venue but only have to have 2 in each race except for “normal” slalom. So that it could be all of them allowed for the venue, if conditions permit, or it could be that only a couple of them are, and this will be announced in advance. It will then be up to the Race Director to choose which individual ones to have in each race.
“Fun to watch with some new faces”. That says it all. Very excited for the new format. Most recreational windsurfers are still mainly on fin and loving it😎 Great insight, Nico.
One of the huge advantages of watching foil racing over fin was the uncertainty of the outcome until the very end. The leader at the start was not guaranteed to be the leader at the end. Crash, touchdown, wobble or bad angle on a jibe; positions often change in foil racing. With fin slalom it is often first to the first mark was first to the finish so generally easy to tune out after the fist mark. Slalom X puts back the uncertainty in slalom fin racing. I guess traditionalists fear the uncertainty, I look forward to it. Enjoying Tenerife?
Great explanations, Nico! I am really exited to watch the PWA-shows of the future if they have more action, similar what most riders are doing themselfs. On the spots around the globe, there are just a few surfers on foils going downwind … such a minority. There is much more our sport can show!
I like the ideas a lot, especially just beach starts. The only race I've been able to do was foil, and the race was about a mile away from the launch, and had to stay further out for depth. For spectators, it makes it really hard to see. I'm hoping that more things like this bring more spectators, and help differentiate the fin vs. foil more. It'll probably give the foil sports more ideas as well.
PWA for me would be really exciting if it would come to New Zealand and Australia. Southern hemisphere seems to miss out on this great racing action. If your ever in the south island NZ Nico..Hit me up
I really like the format of you bringing knowledge to the community by uploading such videos👍🏼 Very informative - hoping to see more such videos also about other topics! For me (also after watching this video) I definitely like that foil and fin will be separated as it gives both - fin and foil - the attention it deserves. And for fin it is even better because I think over time it would be completely dominated by the foil. On the special „AddOns“ as jumping, etc. I don‘t really have an opinion so far. I‘m curious how the jumping part will turn out as I could also imagine that it kind of „manipulates“ a race (f.e.: a rider is leading in first place and doesn‘t recognise the obstacle to jump over and instantly crashes. I think that would be kind of suboptimal). But as I said: I want to see how it turns out before having a straight opinion. What I wasn‘t really clear about: is the fin racing optional behind the foil racing? Because then all the riders would save their energy for going on the foil…? What I wanted to add - as you said that foils were faster than fins a couple of times: actually that is only partially true. I recently saw a Diagramm that showed the waterresistance of fin and foil in comparison. In the beginning, the foil had way less drag (esp. from 8knts speed upwards, as they were flying while fins were going very slow through the water). The foil went up to a very little amount of drag while going faster and faster in a short time where as the fin had a kind of linear course. At around 30knts the resistance of the foil went up drastically while the fin was very low in comparison. So in a direct comparison the foil will only have a significant advantage when the speed isn‘t that high. Hope I didn‘t describe anything wrong and was able to help. Still loved the video!! Keep on with the great work👍🏼👍🏼 Btw I am definitely Team fin, but I think that the fin will take a big profit from the changes👍🏼
The diagram that you describe sounds like a well controlled environment without any chop, is that right? Without knowing anything about that research, I think what Nico is referring to when he says "the foil is faster", is what we saw in the events: No matter how strong the wind was (think about the pozo event) the foils were way ahead. Tatty Frans for example was doing some great results on the fin, but still the foil was dominating all the time.
Also keep in mind that the diagram only applies to going in a straight line. In a slalom race, its also about how fast you can turn at the mark and thats where the true advantage of foils is. Because no how many meters how many meters you can win on a fin on straight line, the foiler will overtake you after the mark. I think that is what Nico means with "being faster" overall in a race, not so much simple 1:1 speed comparison.
I do agree with your point about this new fin discipline. Wait and see what it brings. But surely, PWA had to do something before the sport dies ... Maybe you could have talked a bit about the foil part ? Would have liked to have your opinion (is it the real performance part of the pwa ? will it be considered as the leading format ? the split disciplines could drop the amount of registred riders ..? will you compete in both ..?)
I am excited about the new format! I liked the old “supercross” events - much more interesting and relatable for most of us recreational windsurfers! Also, the supercross boards were very versatile and fun for recreational sailors (unlike highly specialized pure-slalom boards). We need some bold changes like this.
Well let’s start with an interesting experience. We met a (young) girl, She comes from a (sailing)competition family, so she does foiling (iq). She never surf”d on a regular windsurfboard (on the fin). She has directly learned to foil. She ask if she can borrow a freerace slalom set (fin). She goes out on the freeslalomset. After a while she comes back with a big smile on her face. The most important thing she said was. I just came back on the beach and I do want to go back on the water right away. We said, that’s normal. For her not. If she goes foiling, after a while she’s done with it. That’s a difference. That could be the explanation that older people who are surfing for more than 10,20,30,40 years are still so eager to go surfing (fin). It never get boring. And that’s actually the golden egg for the industry. That said. Keep fin surfing in the picture. Foiling is a nice hype and give a small amount of people nice scientific challenges (so they can do nice r&d). And that need to be there to. But don’t focus to much on (only) foiling. As said in the comments. 75 to 99 % (depends on the location) of the consumer surf on the fin. It’s good for the market if they see that the pwa or professional surfer do the same as they do. Ofcourse the professional must go faster or jump higher so the consumer has something to look up to. That’s proven to be durable for windsurfing (fin). Keep that in mind when decision must be made.
It’s important to notice that the object of foiling competition or for that matter the PWA Competitions doesn’t necessarily have to be the growth of the sport itself or that young people come into the sport. Of course that should be an general objective… for me, for the brands for the PWA in General. However, PWA could also decide to do foil only competitions to attract out of industry sponsors and pursue the objective of growing the sport in a different way.
The problem with Fin events is the minimum wind levels. Foiling let events happen in less than perfect conditions and having the choice of foil/fin made sense.. Will foil and fin events happen at the same time or are we in danger of losing the ability to put racing on if the wind doesn’t blow?
It's clear that PWA is trying to be more atrractive! I'm passionate windsurfer from 30 years, and i've never watched a PWA slalom race until the introduction of the drone shots - it was impossible to follow what is going on the race:) Now i can see what is happening and i've watched all the races from last 2 years with fingers crossed for you😉 And about the new rules - It's the same like FIS and ski - there are 4 different disciplines (slalom, GS, SG, DH) and different type ot skiers and races:) Same on PWA - the truth is that the foil is faster and the foil will remain for the slalom (or DH) and the fin will be for X-slalom or other. I think that PWA are going in the good direction and i'm sure that both disciplines will be amazing to follow!:)
Honestly think this is one of the best things PWA could have done to save fin slalom with the rise of foils. As it was I wouldn't particularly watch a full race in the same way I wouldn't watch a 10km running race, it's more interesting to catch the highlights afterwards and you see the same amount of action (my own personal opinion, I know a lot of people still love watching full races). But I think adding in new features will make the races more interesting from start to finish and will make more people want to watch them more (myself included). Also, I'm not aware of what Chicane is? The rest are pretty self explanatory but a quick google search didn't help figure out Chicane.
What do you think about course racing on foil? Foils can go upwind faster, maybe we'd se planing tacks. And with drones that could be interesting to watch. As you said: Going downwind all the time isn't what the average windsurfer does.
Im excited to watch the new format. People want to see smth relatable - that could even bring more people to the sport or motivate them to organise their own competition
Fully agree with the sentiment that it’s good to try new things. Personally very happy to have more fin racing coming back. Keep up the good work Nico😊
Jumps always add to the spectacle of events, so they will be a good addition, plus it is another challenge for the competitors and shows off their skill set. The beach start would also add an opportunity for calamity 🙂 And yeah the surf slalom is cool and very technical. I remember watching some slalom events from Maui back in the 80s and 90s and they were as you describe in and out of the breaking zone, and they were great events which put people to the test.
Hi Nico, great, objektive consideration. I loved the racing 2023 but I'm very excited now for 2024. The boards that came out of the Super X has been amazing, especially for hobby surfers. Slalom X won't be exactly Super X but sounds exciting. Let's give it fair chance and see how it will be. Jochen
Very interesting thoughts. I'm definetely looking forward to some new development in the Windsurfing Circus, combined with the drone shots it is going to be exciting! Let's give it a try!👍😊
I love the idea of seeing racing in the waves again. The Aloha Classics in the '80s were awesome! The other concepts also seem worthy,. The one I find hardest to relate to although I'm sure it will be spectacular is the sausage but that is just a personal thing having had neck injury in the past makes me a bit scared!
Clear explanation and good to keep everything in perspective. I for one can't wait until jumping is back in the race. A big jump at full speed is great action to see. Good choice from PWA.
Would love to see the PWA come back to Brighton like in 1997 and do a launch and finish from the beach. It really got the people excited watching from the shore and seeing the ‘Pro’ s also struggling with the shorebreak 🤣🤣🤣. How about a ‘seniors’ slalom, our local Nik Baker, Dunkerbeck?
I feel like the problem with Windsurfing/foil has always been the coverage. With the drones this has changed! You need good drone operators and Ben x2. And you will have the best water sporting event!
Kind of reminds me of Formula 1 and Motocross as the two bookends. The first one is heavily depending on gear advantage and a shitload of money, while the second one is depending more on riding style and pure madness! Both are great in their way.
In terms of gear evolution slalom X could help us get boards and sails closer to an “everyday use” instead of gear that is only really really useful in a full downwind course
That's a nice video, well explain ! I'm looking forward to watch slalom X. My first impression to the annoncement was a remake of the super X discipline. But it will be really différent to run on slalom gear, instead of freestyle/freeride gear !!! Also beach starts and running in the surf will be so much fun, as they did in the 80-90's. I thing that you guys have a lot of work to do on communication and filming, to make it easy to show and to understand. The work you have done with drone footage IS amazing and you have to put it on perspective as they did in the american's cup !!! This will be the Key to Come back on the the TV scene💪👍
Awesome bro. I think the X was necessary to try and differentiate fin slalom from foil slalom. If fins and foils were simply running the same course, many people would say "foils are better round the standard course why even bother with fins". To me slalom X is a way to keep fins alive at the top level which majority of windsurfers want.
The windsurfing podcast seemed to suggest that there would be 2 of the format options in 3 of 4 of all eliminations, but I think you said they were options only and not compulsory, but will be announced prior to the event that they will be available within the event. Can you shed some light on how exactly each overall tour event, and each elimination within that event will be formatted?
Honesly, when I hearded about the X-slalom my first internal respone wasn't tot possitive. The video and the information in it chanced my opinion althought I'm still not to fond of the jumping/chicane in the middle of a course. Seperating Vin/Foil is necessary I think. They evolve in a different direction making it hard to compete in the same course.
Well explained Nico, thank you. I think the reason we all went into melt down was bcs the pictures released with the announcement was a massive inflatable from Super Cross! So many including myself assumed it was going to be similar along with the other rules. If you’re saying it’s gona just be a small hop over a rope, line or smaller inflatable then that’s a massive difference to the assumption many made! You also alluded to it; modern slalom boards are fragile and also very expensive for the general public so the Brands will have to up their standards as there is some pretty poor quality kit coming out of the factories at the moment which is breaking far to easily and if the National Association adopt the same PWA slalom rules then unless you have deep pockets or just darn good at windsurfing I suspect many, me included will just be watching instead of good old slalom fin racing! One things for sure, I’ll not be using my slalom gear for jumping obstacles or wave gybing any time soon as I can hardly hop on one leg let along hop over a obstacle at speed on a slalom board 😂 What’s really key here is film and drone footage (there are gona need more than one drone as well) so we spectators get to see the action especially at the obstacle! It’s gona be interesting for sure 🤙
Go out in the ocean/sea,enjoy the condiction you find on the spot. The show must go on, action race ,wave slalom,bump&jump,chicane, our sport need to be spectacular in slalom too
the problem of that, are only people, that will never compete in pwa, just talking and talking, they can only criticize. what nobody know was told in this video, now everybody can understand (maybe) much better. thanks nico
Funny thing is, it did work. Maybe not the obstacles, but le mans starts and surf slalom are very ‘eighties’. As in that time when windsurfing was arguably the biggest fun sport in the world 😎 Looking forward to some AcTioN! 🔥🚀
Very well explained with very good points! 👋👍New fin racing formats seem very promising to increase competitiveness and also more interesting viewing. As everyone involved knows, changes to fin racing were indeed needed, however what is definitely not needed in my opinion is even more expensive equipment!
i agree.. i bet the slalom windsurfers always thought fin will be no compettition for foil it wont last a Season.. wow! (i always thought that.. Yikes till i purchased one) and these things now get more powerful every year.. shocked the hell out of me.. and watchin fin and foil always blows my mind
This is all Goyard's fault.🤨The foils were going to be for light wind racing and everyone was fine with that. 😉Then he went faster and faster until he couldn't be beat regardless of wind strength.😲 He broke slalom racing.🤯 Amazing. 😊Sailor of the year in my opinion.🥳
Guessing that now a fairly sizeable number of windsurfers is past their prime (above 50?) and don't have much time left to buy gear and enjoy riding, any new approach to the sport that becomes engaging and attractive to younger crowed is a good thing to give windsurfing a renewed commercial life. So, congrats to the PWA folks for trying their best to keep things innovative and maybe "spectacular", yet possibly doable by the average rider (Isn't Kiteboarding's attractiveness has a lot to do with those high jumps that many can execute without being a pro or tones of time on their hand to learn?). Whether or not the PWA will have it right the first time isn't really important. What matters is that they are in this non-static logic. I don't know if the gear manufacturers have an association in which they can discuss the future of the sport but if I was involved in some ways in this industry, I would definitely think the brands should link-up with the PWA to share productive conversations. Maybe they already do ...I don't know.
With the fin and foil separated does that mean you or other racers will be racing in twice as many races? Or would you only be able to sign up for one or the other at the event?
Well spoken.. Why are people so emotional and negative these days? Pulse at 180 for a minor imperfection in the concept. I’m sure there won’t be much Cross if the riders don’t like it, with PWA being a rider’s organization. Chill out guys. Excellent news for the fin, and riders who don’t want to switch to Foil.
i was in a total understanding of the head title (judging) that you would be negative about SlalomX, and put the podcast aside.... but assumptions. fucked me up haha. Great podcast! let the's see Slalom X is bringing, I believe it's close to the local riders what they are doing whit shore breaks and long distance etc. so bring it on!
Buenos días , Raro que haya ‘gastado’ 20’ en un vídeo de charlas . Nico dijo las cosas muy bien y la gente comenta como cree les convenga . La realidad no es que sea bueno o malo el súper X , es que no hay eventos!!!! Alli es donde trabajar, cuando hay visibilidad puedes vender cualquier tipo de format con este nivel de atletas y materiales tan alto. Crear o volver a hacer las cosas para variar el SHOW esta muy bien, y desde fuera es fantástico poder ver actuar a los mejores . No será esto que está hundiendo nuestro deporte o otro deporte de mar . Lo que nos hunde son las consecuencias de una mala gestión en las plantas alta ….
Well done keeping it professional whilst reading the ridiculous negative comments, it looked liked that was hard! 😂 I think Slalom X is a great idea and can't wait to see it. Personally I find foil slalom kind of boring and almost like a different sport, but I get it, it's faster now and the PWA wants to be at the forefront of windsurf technology a bit like F1. However foiling killed my personal interest in racing. For me it's a bit like downhill mountain biking vs the tour de france, I love DH mountain biking but I would rather watch grass grow than watch the tour de france. But some people feel the exact opposite to me and so both disciplines have a place in the cycling world. We are all different people and that's a good thing and brings diversity to our world. I used to race in the UK and had been considering getting back in to it a few years ago, but then foiling took over and I lost all interest. If they started doing slalom X on the UK national tour I would be really interested in racing again. Surely if there's others out there who share my feelings on this that makes Slalom X a good thing for the sport. Guys that had lost interest in racing might now go out and consider buying slalom kit again and supporting national racing by entering and therefore paying for entry to events and membership to the organisations. And those that like foil slalom can continue to do that just on a separate race course. So everyone's a winner! Well not on the race course but you know what I mean.
It is very simple for a 42 years pure windsurfing man like me. Wheb thw windsurfing industry was at its top there was thw PBA (later PWA) . There was an overall world champion. Slalom racing started and ended at the beach (liked to see racers entering omaezaki on a heavy shorebreak and storm conditions). Slalom was mostly on a 8 figure race like real life. Everything was closer to real life , because most of the people was , or wanted, to do slalom and wavesailing. The type of today racing was for the "sailing competitors" like otimist ,laser,470 ,even mistral starting from the sea. If we want to bring more people to the sport you have to make the show (the circus) as much as close to the real windsurfing.
I could not agree less. As mentioned in another comment, PWA Competitions don’t have to have the goal to grow the sport. There are many other way more important factors than competition. Besides… in Kitesurfing everyone watches big air, which is way beyond what most people could ever dream of doing. An exciting competition, which gets watched and shared through social media is much more likely to catch young people’s attention. But it’s okay to disagree. ✌️
I remeber when i was a kid (40+ years ago) i was dreaming to be a world competitor. Every other kid on the beach dreamed about it too. because it was a not so unrealistic goal with the beach start and the 8 figure slalom. I dont think that any kid or teen would start windsurfing to be a weeked warrior. We need new kids on the sport. Simple and accesible (to the eye) racings are a good help in my opinion. @@BoardLifeNico
It's a good think and the PWA would just die out if nothing's changing right now. I'm really looking forward to that. If I'd like to see pure racing I'd rather watch the IQFoil Class than the PWA to be honest. Big problem for both still is the media coverage/stream quality/background information and covering the stories of the athletes themselves within the "show". Hope that can be improved as well.
PWA should learn from organizations such as SailGP and deliver the disciplines in a matter that is more easily watched on TV. This will bring in more sponsorships.
hello. i think it's fair to separate fin from foil. most of the pwa riders spend their whole careers perfecting the fin ride and suddenly foil takes over and they have to throw away years of dedication. yes to beach start and wave slalom as well. obstacles? not really.
Great to hear the PWA is evolving. Windsurfing needs to evolve. It’s a great sport but here in Western Australia the sport is on the decline. Important to evolve to attract new/younger riders 👍🏻 Get them to add wave windfoiling too … it’ll promote gear development in that area 🤙🏼
in the beginning when the foil was new in competitions it was quite boring because the riders wasnt good enough to bring quality to the races as they was with fin and with that fin was more action. the breaking point was pwa in Israel where everyone except goyard understand they had to improve their foiling time. 2023 was the first season when foil brought more action and where overall better racing than filn. the evolution is set. foil is future and fin cant be in the same races to be competitive. it's good to separate, make the course different for fin but skip jumps and strange obsticals
I think another important aspect is media. Ben profittt is so essential and his commentary is amazing. Still if you want to follow an event, you have to be an expert. So make it also attractive to people watching it for the first time. For example using augmented reality animations.
SL-Fin-competition will be a niche in a niche of a niche. Windsurfing is a declining sport. Older sportler are leaving (due to the high age in many of our surf-communities), young's are leaving for Winging and many SL-, Formula- and Race-user are leaving/have left Fin-surfing for Windfoiling with SL-Windfoiling. There have been proposals to combine Low-Wind-foiling and Highwind-SL-Fin-Surfing (and letting in Middelwind the choice free), but this decision will create big problems - even greater on the middle and long-term: 2 x champions, 2 x sponsors, 2 x material, again races without competitions because of too little wind for fin-surfing only.
@@BoardLifeNico ja - du hast Recht: „Prognosen sind schwierig, vor allem, wenn sie die Zukunft betreffen“ (Mark Twain) :-) Unfortunately, there is one point arising from this decision (to divide Fin and Foil): till now, in all these discussions, I had the position, that fin or foil - both are windsurfing. Now - they are 2 different sports.
For sure you can have fun while kiting or foiling or winging... But for me Windsurfing on the fin is the only real thing, don't want to see any of the alternatives 😂
I think it's a good idea. Didn't like watching foil races, so separating it from the fin racing is a good idea. And some extra elements will make the sport surely more fun to watch!
It’s not about negativity for the sake of negativity Nico, it’s just that this seems like a knee-jerk reaction after the debacle of the recent world champion decision based on a technicality on a sail that wasn’t used. It just looks like the PWA old boys have crapped themselves that a young guy like Johan Soe beat everyone even after missing a whole event. Now all of a sudden we are going back to fin only. That means we will end up watching 10 cancellations a round because someone won’t plane out of a gybe so they’ll throw their hands up to try to get a race cancellation. A lot of us race both fin and foil, so it was great to watch the two disciplines combined the last few years. I’m not a fan of the decision coz I thought the slalom racing was great in the last few years.
My video has nothing to do with Johan. Neither has this decision. But thanks for proving my point that people just want to be negative and jump on conclusions, thinking they know what’s going on. 🙌
imagine being a boxer , and you are in a tournament in thailand . the organiser says , " hey since we are in thailand , kicks are allowed " ... for sure if tyson , sonny liston , lennox lewis , max bayer , joined it , if they faced 70 kg buakaw , they would get their ass ko'd ... i dunno . just feels wrong .
Who cares? Is anyone really watching PWa? Windsurfing as sport is fucked by brands and ‘racers’ since late 80’s , no one care about pwa , even people who windsurf, i would not consider foiling as windsurfing but yeah another nail to the coffin of windsurfing…
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*Corrections: PWA does organize some events themselves. PWA can specify more than 2 for each venue but only have to have 2 in each race except for “normal” slalom. So that it could be all of them allowed for the venue, if conditions permit, or it could be that only a couple of them are, and this will be announced in advance. It will then be up to the Race Director to choose which individual ones to have in each race.
“Fun to watch with some new faces”. That says it all. Very excited for the new format. Most recreational windsurfers are still mainly on fin and loving it😎 Great insight, Nico.
The voice of reason. Thank you Nico. Well done.
I think that separating foil from fins is how it should be. X-slalom is fun to watch, with the action closer to the beach.
in my opinion the slalom races back than in wave conditions were the real deal. Spectacular to watch and really intense!
Yes .yes .yes
One of the huge advantages of watching foil racing over fin was the uncertainty of the outcome until the very end. The leader at the start was not guaranteed to be the leader at the end. Crash, touchdown, wobble or bad angle on a jibe; positions often change in foil racing. With fin slalom it is often first to the first mark was first to the finish so generally easy to tune out after the fist mark. Slalom X puts back the uncertainty in slalom fin racing. I guess traditionalists fear the uncertainty, I look forward to it. Enjoying Tenerife?
Thank for the update. I think it is great to split the fins and the foil. Looking to see more competions. Make fins great again.❤❤❤
Great explanations, Nico!
I am really exited to watch the PWA-shows of the future if they have more action, similar what most riders are doing themselfs. On the spots around the globe, there are just a few surfers on foils going downwind … such a minority. There is much more our sport can show!
I am so excited to watch these new fin races!
I like the ideas a lot, especially just beach starts. The only race I've been able to do was foil, and the race was about a mile away from the launch, and had to stay further out for depth. For spectators, it makes it really hard to see. I'm hoping that more things like this bring more spectators, and help differentiate the fin vs. foil more. It'll probably give the foil sports more ideas as well.
PWA for me would be really exciting if it would come to New Zealand and Australia. Southern hemisphere seems to miss out on this great racing action. If your ever in the south island NZ Nico..Hit me up
nico for pwa president !!
I really like the format of you bringing knowledge to the community by uploading such videos👍🏼 Very informative - hoping to see more such videos also about other topics!
For me (also after watching this video) I definitely like that foil and fin will be separated as it gives both - fin and foil - the attention it deserves. And for fin it is even better because I think over time it would be completely dominated by the foil.
On the special „AddOns“ as jumping, etc. I don‘t really have an opinion so far. I‘m curious how the jumping part will turn out as I could also imagine that it kind of „manipulates“ a race (f.e.: a rider is leading in first place and doesn‘t recognise the obstacle to jump over and instantly crashes. I think that would be kind of suboptimal). But as I said: I want to see how it turns out before having a straight opinion.
What I wasn‘t really clear about: is the fin racing optional behind the foil racing? Because then all the riders would save their energy for going on the foil…?
What I wanted to add - as you said that foils were faster than fins a couple of times: actually that is only partially true. I recently saw a Diagramm that showed the waterresistance of fin and foil in comparison. In the beginning, the foil had way less drag (esp. from 8knts speed upwards, as they were flying while fins were going very slow through the water). The foil went up to a very little amount of drag while going faster and faster in a short time where as the fin had a kind of linear course. At around 30knts the resistance of the foil went up drastically while the fin was very low in comparison. So in a direct comparison the foil will only have a significant advantage when the speed isn‘t that high.
Hope I didn‘t describe anything wrong and was able to help. Still loved the video!! Keep on with the great work👍🏼👍🏼
Btw I am definitely Team fin, but I think that the fin will take a big profit from the changes👍🏼
The diagram that you describe sounds like a well controlled environment without any chop, is that right? Without knowing anything about that research, I think what Nico is referring to when he says "the foil is faster", is what we saw in the events: No matter how strong the wind was (think about the pozo event) the foils were way ahead. Tatty Frans for example was doing some great results on the fin, but still the foil was dominating all the time.
Also keep in mind that the diagram only applies to going in a straight line. In a slalom race, its also about how fast you can turn at the mark and thats where the true advantage of foils is. Because no how many meters how many meters you can win on a fin on straight line, the foiler will overtake you after the mark. I think that is what Nico means with "being faster" overall in a race, not so much simple 1:1 speed comparison.
Very excited for it!! Hopefully most of the riders will be able to do both foil and fin. Maybe X will appeal to wave sailors… very interesting.🧐
especially those on the heavier side
I do agree with your point about this new fin discipline. Wait and see what it brings. But surely, PWA had to do something before the sport dies ...
Maybe you could have talked a bit about the foil part ? Would have liked to have your opinion (is it the real performance part of the pwa ? will it be considered as the leading format ? the split disciplines could drop the amount of registred riders ..? will you compete in both ..?)
I am excited about the new format! I liked the old “supercross” events - much more interesting and relatable for most of us recreational windsurfers! Also, the supercross boards were very versatile and fun for recreational sailors (unlike highly specialized pure-slalom boards). We need some bold changes like this.
Well let’s start with an interesting experience. We met a (young) girl, She comes from a (sailing)competition family, so she does foiling (iq). She never surf”d on a regular windsurfboard (on the fin). She has directly learned to foil. She ask if she can borrow a freerace slalom set (fin). She goes out on the freeslalomset. After a while she comes back with a big smile on her face. The most important thing she said was. I just came back on the beach and I do want to go back on the water right away. We said, that’s normal. For her not. If she goes foiling, after a while she’s done with it. That’s a difference. That could be the explanation that older people who are surfing for more than 10,20,30,40 years are still so eager to go surfing (fin). It never get boring. And that’s actually the golden egg for the industry.
That said. Keep fin surfing in the picture. Foiling is a nice hype and give a small amount of people nice scientific challenges (so they can do nice r&d). And that need to be there to. But don’t focus to much on (only) foiling. As said in the comments. 75 to 99 % (depends on the location) of the consumer surf on the fin. It’s good for the market if they see that the pwa or professional surfer do the same as they do. Ofcourse the professional must go faster or jump higher so the consumer has something to look up to. That’s proven to be durable for windsurfing (fin).
Keep that in mind when decision must be made.
It’s important to notice that the object of foiling competition or for that matter the PWA Competitions doesn’t necessarily have to be the growth of the sport itself or that young people come into the sport. Of course that should be an general objective… for me, for the brands for the PWA in General.
However, PWA could also decide to do foil only competitions to attract out of industry sponsors and pursue the objective of growing the sport in a different way.
The problem with Fin events is the minimum wind levels. Foiling let events happen in less than perfect conditions and having the choice of foil/fin made sense.. Will foil and fin events happen at the same time or are we in danger of losing the ability to put racing on if the wind doesn’t blow?
Great video! its going to be fun events! more videos form you we want! good luck in this year's races 🏁
It's clear that PWA is trying to be more atrractive! I'm passionate windsurfer from 30 years, and i've never watched a PWA slalom race until the introduction of the drone shots - it was impossible to follow what is going on the race:) Now i can see what is happening and i've watched all the races from last 2 years with fingers crossed for you😉
And about the new rules - It's the same like FIS and ski - there are 4 different disciplines (slalom, GS, SG, DH) and different type ot skiers and races:) Same on PWA - the truth is that the foil is faster and the foil will remain for the slalom (or DH) and the fin will be for X-slalom or other. I think that PWA are going in the good direction and i'm sure that both disciplines will be amazing to follow!:)
Honestly think this is one of the best things PWA could have done to save fin slalom with the rise of foils. As it was I wouldn't particularly watch a full race in the same way I wouldn't watch a 10km running race, it's more interesting to catch the highlights afterwards and you see the same amount of action (my own personal opinion, I know a lot of people still love watching full races). But I think adding in new features will make the races more interesting from start to finish and will make more people want to watch them more (myself included).
Also, I'm not aware of what Chicane is? The rest are pretty self explanatory but a quick google search didn't help figure out Chicane.
Chicane : a slight turn and a second slight turn in the other direction. Its like doing a Little « S » on the reach
What do you think about course racing on foil? Foils can go upwind faster, maybe we'd se planing tacks. And with drones that could be interesting to watch. As you said: Going downwind all the time isn't what the average windsurfer does.
Upwind segments! Yes yes yes !
Im excited to watch the new format. People want to see smth relatable - that could even bring more people to the sport or motivate them to organise their own competition
Fully agree with the sentiment that it’s good to try new things. Personally very happy to have more fin racing coming back. Keep up the good work Nico😊
Jumps always add to the spectacle of events, so they will be a good addition, plus it is another challenge for the competitors and shows off their skill set. The beach start would also add an opportunity for calamity 🙂 And yeah the surf slalom is cool and very technical. I remember watching some slalom events from Maui back in the 80s and 90s and they were as you describe in and out of the breaking zone, and they were great events which put people to the test.
Daily updates from the events were great this year. With the new format really looking forward to seeing them again this year.
Hi Nico, great, objektive consideration. I loved the racing 2023 but I'm very excited now for 2024. The boards that came out of the Super X has been amazing, especially for hobby surfers. Slalom X won't be exactly Super X but sounds exciting. Let's give it fair chance and see how it will be. Jochen
Sounds very exciting! Can’t wait to watch the races.
Very interesting thoughts. I'm definetely looking forward to some new development in the Windsurfing Circus, combined with the drone shots it is going to be exciting! Let's give it a try!👍😊
I love the idea of seeing racing in the waves again. The Aloha Classics in the '80s were awesome!
The other concepts also seem worthy,. The one I find hardest to relate to although I'm sure it will be spectacular is the sausage but that is just a personal thing having had neck injury in the past makes me a bit scared!
Thank You Nico for this video. I think this will be great to watch and add some more fun to racing!
Super excited about this! Been wanting this since decades. Gybing in the waves and beach start....mmmm 😊
Super! Thanks for the information and explanations! I'm looking forward to the competitions!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and for explaining 🙏 i personally think it will be exciting .
You are such a good ambassador for windsurfing - staying objective with the information given🤙💪. Looking forwards to see both disciplins🎉
Clear explanation and good to keep everything in perspective. I for one can't wait until jumping is back in the race. A big jump at full speed is great action to see. Good choice from PWA.
gonna be great to change due to the conditions at hands for each venue, looking forward for it to start.
Would love to see the PWA come back to Brighton like in 1997 and do a launch and finish from the beach. It really got the people excited watching from the shore and seeing the ‘Pro’ s also struggling with the shorebreak 🤣🤣🤣. How about a ‘seniors’ slalom, our local Nik Baker, Dunkerbeck?
I feel like the problem with Windsurfing/foil has always been the coverage. With the drones this has changed! You need good drone operators and Ben x2. And you will have the best water sporting event!
Kind of reminds me of Formula 1 and Motocross as the two bookends. The first one is heavily depending on gear advantage and a shitload of money, while the second one is depending more on riding style and pure madness! Both are great in their way.
You need to have full body contact on the beach start and finish. Sort of a windsurfing/MMA format. Money in the bank......
In terms of gear evolution slalom X could help us get boards and sails closer to an “everyday use” instead of gear that is only really really useful in a full downwind course
Watching Ben Profit, Paul van Bellen and Jordy Vonk right now talking in their Livestream. Very nice having your explanation and opinion, thanks👍🏼
Nicely explained. I‘m positively excited for the upcoming season!
Thanks for the update, sounds good!
If you are happy so we are!!
That's a nice video, well explain ! I'm looking forward to watch slalom X. My first impression to the annoncement was a remake of the super X discipline. But it will be really différent to run on slalom gear, instead of freestyle/freeride gear !!! Also beach starts and running in the surf will be so much fun, as they did in the 80-90's. I thing that you guys have a lot of work to do on communication and filming, to make it easy to show and to understand. The work you have done with drone footage IS amazing and you have to put it on perspective as they did in the american's cup !!! This will be the Key to Come back on the the TV scene💪👍
Awesome bro. I think the X was necessary to try and differentiate fin slalom from foil slalom. If fins and foils were simply running the same course, many people would say "foils are better round the standard course why even bother with fins". To me slalom X is a way to keep fins alive at the top level which majority of windsurfers want.
The windsurfing podcast seemed to suggest that there would be 2 of the format options in 3 of 4 of all eliminations, but I think you said they were options only and not compulsory, but will be announced prior to the event that they will be available within the event. Can you shed some light on how exactly each overall tour event, and each elimination within that event will be formatted?
Honesly, when I hearded about the X-slalom my first internal respone wasn't tot possitive. The video and the information in it chanced my opinion althought I'm still not to fond of the jumping/chicane in the middle of a course. Seperating Vin/Foil is necessary I think. They evolve in a different direction making it hard to compete in the same course.
Thanks for the daily competition videos so far.
Hope there will be more videos coming up next slalom season, however the rules will be.
Brian Talma would say: Action!!!
Well explained Nico, thank you.
I think the reason we all went into melt down was bcs the pictures released with the announcement was a massive inflatable from Super Cross! So many including myself assumed it was going to be similar along with the other rules. If you’re saying it’s gona just be a small hop over a rope, line or smaller inflatable then that’s a massive difference to the assumption many made! You also alluded to it; modern slalom boards are fragile and also very expensive for the general public so the Brands will have to up their standards as there is some pretty poor quality kit coming out of the factories at the moment which is breaking far to easily and if the National Association adopt the same PWA slalom rules then unless you have deep pockets or just darn good at windsurfing I suspect many, me included will just be watching instead of good old slalom fin racing! One things for sure, I’ll not be using my slalom gear for jumping obstacles or wave gybing any time soon as I can hardly hop on one leg let along hop over a obstacle at speed on a slalom board 😂
What’s really key here is film and drone footage (there are gona need more than one drone as well) so we spectators get to see the action especially at the obstacle! It’s gona be interesting for sure 🤙
Go out in the ocean/sea,enjoy the condiction you find on the spot. The show must go on, action race ,wave slalom,bump&jump,chicane, our sport need to be spectacular in slalom too
the problem of that, are only people, that will never compete in pwa, just talking and talking, they can only criticize.
what nobody know was told in this video, now everybody can understand (maybe) much better.
thanks nico
Funny thing is, it did work. Maybe not the obstacles, but le mans starts and surf slalom are very ‘eighties’. As in that time when windsurfing was arguably the biggest fun sport in the world 😎 Looking forward to some AcTioN! 🔥🚀
Very well explained with very good points! 👋👍New fin racing formats seem very promising to increase competitiveness and also more interesting viewing. As everyone involved knows, changes to fin racing were indeed needed, however what is definitely not needed in my opinion is even more expensive equipment!
Sounds great to me, hopefully there will be be some windy spots.
I really like the idea. All the best.
i agree.. i bet the slalom windsurfers always thought fin will be no compettition for foil it wont last a Season.. wow! (i always thought that.. Yikes till i purchased one) and these things now get more powerful every year.. shocked the hell out of me.. and watchin fin and foil always blows my mind
Hah, my starboard s type 104 is back in fashion. Never throw out old gear.😂😂😂
U should post a video of you training for slalom x. That would be hilarious, running with the gear on the beach😂😂
For Next Tenerife training sessions everyone will be practicing chop hops!
This is all Goyard's fault.🤨The foils were going to be for light wind racing and everyone was fine with that. 😉Then he went faster and faster until he couldn't be beat regardless of wind strength.😲 He broke slalom racing.🤯 Amazing. 😊Sailor of the year in my opinion.🥳
Guessing that now a fairly sizeable number of windsurfers is past their prime (above 50?) and don't have much time left to buy gear and enjoy riding, any new approach to the sport that becomes engaging and attractive to younger crowed is a good thing to give windsurfing a renewed commercial life. So, congrats to the PWA folks for trying their best to keep things innovative and maybe "spectacular", yet possibly doable by the average rider (Isn't Kiteboarding's attractiveness has a lot to do with those high jumps that many can execute without being a pro or tones of time on their hand to learn?). Whether or not the PWA will have it right the first time isn't really important. What matters is that they are in this non-static logic. I don't know if the gear manufacturers have an association in which they can discuss the future of the sport but if I was involved in some ways in this industry, I would definitely think the brands should link-up with the PWA to share productive conversations. Maybe they already do ...I don't know.
With the fin and foil separated does that mean you or other racers will be racing in twice as many races? Or would you only be able to sign up for one or the other at the event?
I think you need a bigger mic foam cap
Well spoken.. Why are people so emotional and negative these days? Pulse at 180 for a minor imperfection in the concept. I’m sure there won’t be much Cross if the riders don’t like it, with PWA being a rider’s organization. Chill out guys. Excellent news for the fin, and riders who don’t want to switch to Foil.
i was in a total understanding of the head title (judging) that you would be negative about SlalomX, and put the podcast aside.... but assumptions. fucked me up haha.
Great podcast! let the's see Slalom X is bringing, I believe it's close to the local riders what they are doing whit shore breaks and long distance etc.
so bring it on!
Buenos días ,
Raro que haya ‘gastado’ 20’ en un vídeo de charlas .
Nico dijo las cosas muy bien y la gente comenta como cree les convenga .
La realidad no es que sea bueno o malo el súper X , es que no hay eventos!!!!
Alli es donde trabajar, cuando hay visibilidad puedes vender cualquier tipo de format con este nivel de atletas y materiales tan alto.
Crear o volver a hacer las cosas para variar el SHOW esta muy bien, y desde fuera es fantástico poder ver actuar a los mejores .
No será esto que está hundiendo nuestro deporte o otro deporte de mar .
Lo que nos hunde son las consecuencias de una mala gestión en las plantas alta ….
Well done keeping it professional whilst reading the ridiculous negative comments, it looked liked that was hard! 😂 I think Slalom X is a great idea and can't wait to see it. Personally I find foil slalom kind of boring and almost like a different sport, but I get it, it's faster now and the PWA wants to be at the forefront of windsurf technology a bit like F1. However foiling killed my personal interest in racing. For me it's a bit like downhill mountain biking vs the tour de france, I love DH mountain biking but I would rather watch grass grow than watch the tour de france. But some people feel the exact opposite to me and so both disciplines have a place in the cycling world. We are all different people and that's a good thing and brings diversity to our world. I used to race in the UK and had been considering getting back in to it a few years ago, but then foiling took over and I lost all interest. If they started doing slalom X on the UK national tour I would be really interested in racing again. Surely if there's others out there who share my feelings on this that makes Slalom X a good thing for the sport. Guys that had lost interest in racing might now go out and consider buying slalom kit again and supporting national racing by entering and therefore paying for entry to events and membership to the organisations. And those that like foil slalom can continue to do that just on a separate race course. So everyone's a winner! Well not on the race course but you know what I mean.
It is very simple for a 42 years pure windsurfing man like me. Wheb thw windsurfing industry was at its top there was thw PBA (later PWA) . There was an overall world champion. Slalom racing started and ended at the beach (liked to see racers entering omaezaki on a heavy shorebreak and storm conditions). Slalom was mostly on a 8 figure race like real life. Everything was closer to real life , because most of the people was , or wanted, to do slalom and wavesailing. The type of today racing was for the "sailing competitors" like otimist ,laser,470 ,even mistral starting from the sea. If we want to bring more people to the sport you have to make the show (the circus) as much as close to the real windsurfing.
I could not agree less. As mentioned in another comment, PWA Competitions don’t have to have the goal to grow the sport.
There are many other way more important factors than competition.
Besides… in Kitesurfing everyone watches big air, which is way beyond what most people could ever dream of doing.
An exciting competition, which gets watched and shared through social media is much more likely to catch young people’s attention.
But it’s okay to disagree. ✌️
I remeber when i was a kid (40+ years ago) i was dreaming to be a world competitor. Every other kid on the beach dreamed about it too. because it was a not so unrealistic goal with the beach start and the 8 figure slalom. I dont think that any kid or teen would start windsurfing to be a weeked warrior. We need new kids on the sport. Simple and accesible (to the eye) racings are a good help in my opinion. @@BoardLifeNico
It's a good think and the PWA would just die out if nothing's changing right now. I'm really looking forward to that. If I'd like to see pure racing I'd rather watch the IQFoil Class than the PWA to be honest. Big problem for both still is the media coverage/stream quality/background information and covering the stories of the athletes themselves within the "show". Hope that can be improved as well.
I don’t think the exact format will be deciding factor for the PWAs success and the improvement of media coverage 😄
not sure either@@BoardLifeNico . But changing nothing will slowly kill the Tour don't you think?
I actually like it, the old format was not cool with the Spock's etc.
A small jump is cool
PWA should learn from organizations such as SailGP and deliver the disciplines in a matter that is more easily watched on TV. This will bring in more sponsorships.
Thanks Sherlock 😄
hello. i think it's fair to separate fin from foil. most of the pwa riders spend their whole careers perfecting the fin ride and suddenly foil takes over and they have to throw away years of dedication. yes to beach start and wave slalom as well. obstacles? not really.
Thanks for clarifying. Interesting format!
Great to hear the PWA is evolving. Windsurfing needs to evolve. It’s a great sport but here in Western Australia the sport is on the decline. Important to evolve to attract new/younger riders 👍🏻 Get them to add wave windfoiling too … it’ll promote gear development in that area 🤙🏼
in the beginning when the foil was new in competitions it was quite boring because the riders wasnt good enough to bring quality to the races as they was with fin and with that fin was more action. the breaking point was pwa in Israel where everyone except goyard understand they had to improve their foiling time. 2023 was the first season when foil brought more action and where overall better racing than filn. the evolution is set. foil is future and fin cant be in the same races to be competitive. it's good to separate, make the course different for fin but skip jumps and strange obsticals
I think another important aspect is media. Ben profittt is so essential and his commentary is amazing. Still if you want to follow an event, you have to be an expert. So make it also attractive to people watching it for the first time. For example using augmented reality animations.
There are many such aspects, of which the PWA is fully aware, but not able to implement. Reasons for that I leave open to speculation 😄
SL-Fin-competition will be a niche in a niche of a niche.
Windsurfing is a declining sport. Older sportler are leaving (due to the high age in many of our surf-communities), young's are leaving for Winging and many SL-, Formula- and Race-user are leaving/have left Fin-surfing for Windfoiling with SL-Windfoiling.
There have been proposals to combine Low-Wind-foiling and Highwind-SL-Fin-Surfing (and letting in Middelwind the choice free), but this decision will create big problems - even greater on the middle and long-term: 2 x champions, 2 x sponsors, 2 x material, again races without competitions because of too little wind for fin-surfing only.
I guess we will see :-)
@@BoardLifeNico ja - du hast Recht: „Prognosen sind schwierig, vor allem, wenn sie die Zukunft betreffen“ (Mark Twain) :-)
Unfortunately, there is one point arising from this decision (to divide Fin and Foil): till now, in all these discussions, I had the position, that fin or foil - both are windsurfing. Now - they are 2 different sports.
For sure you can have fun while kiting or foiling or winging... But for me Windsurfing on the fin is the only real thing, don't want to see any of the alternatives 😂
It's just the old Super X Format, isn't it? For me it is far more exciting than a foil race, especially on TV/Web.
Fucking Awesome😊
I think that the decisions made will be good for the Sport.
I think it's a good idea. Didn't like watching foil races, so separating it from the fin racing is a good idea. And some extra elements will make the sport surely more fun to watch!
@Nico_GER7: will you participate in both fin and foil or will you focus on one?
I think both. Depending on how many events.
It’s not about negativity for the sake of negativity Nico, it’s just that this seems like a knee-jerk reaction after the debacle of the recent world champion decision based on a technicality on a sail that wasn’t used.
It just looks like the PWA old boys have crapped themselves that a young guy like Johan Soe beat everyone even after missing a whole event.
Now all of a sudden we are going back to fin only. That means we will end up watching 10 cancellations a round because someone won’t plane out of a gybe so they’ll throw their hands up to try to get a race cancellation.
A lot of us race both fin and foil, so it was great to watch the two disciplines combined the last few years. I’m not a fan of the decision coz I thought the slalom racing was great in the last few years.
My video has nothing to do with Johan. Neither has this decision.
But thanks for proving my point that people just want to be negative and jump on conclusions, thinking they know what’s going on. 🙌
And no, it hasn’t been „all of a sudden“. That’s your interpretation of it. This conversation has been lead since years in the PWA.
Mixing fins and foils was a mistake in the first place, separate the two disciplines is a logical thing:-)
i think its the best idea they had since a long a time
Sonds a experiênce and …. We will see….
Slalom x give me a hard on. Nothing better than screaming through big surf it’s like Moto x without the pain. I’m excited to see the new boards. ❤❤❤❤❤
Second 😢
First
imagine being a boxer , and you are in a tournament in thailand . the organiser says , " hey since we are in thailand , kicks are allowed " ...
for sure if tyson , sonny liston , lennox lewis , max bayer , joined it , if they faced 70 kg buakaw , they would get their ass ko'd ...
i dunno . just feels wrong .
bring PWA back to Norderney and cancel ***** Sylt
Foiling is 🎪🎪
Who cares? Is anyone really watching PWa? Windsurfing as sport is fucked by brands and ‘racers’ since late 80’s , no one care about pwa , even people who windsurf, i would not consider foiling as windsurfing but yeah another nail to the coffin of windsurfing…
Thanks for proving my point 🤝
You are obviously pretty biased though you say the opposite, a bad try, sorry. Too many short sighted arguments 🙃