As much as I love the idea, the solvay chemical resistance chart (can't have links apparently) page 34, table 29 has ethanol, acetone and Ethyl acetate all having weight and visual changes to the Radel PPSU at room temperature. As these are all in distillate so I question the suitability of Radel PPSU for a hot distillate. I’d at least want to see some testing to ensure nothing is ending up in the product.
Hey Andrew. I can appreciate your concerns as all new materials should be thoroughly tested. We have been doing testing on this resin grade for 2 years now and have extensive test results carried out. In fact our test results showed that comparing a "lead free" silver soldered copper still and then compared the test results to the PPSU. The PPSU had no transmission of plasticizers or monomers migrating from the plastic into the ethanol when tested at 75C for multiple days and was below all detectable thresholds for for other mineral compounds. When we tested the copper still that had been silver soldered with "lead free" brazing rod we had detectable levels of mineral migration including led, copper and tin in the sample. So if anything I would say a traditional still is likely to have more contaminants than one injection molded from PPSU. We did not use ethyl acetate or acetone but I can't see many customers putting these solvents into the still in particular. Even if you did want to use solvent extraction for some other food grade applications these solvents would not make sense. As specified by the resin manufacturer you can see changes in the material at temperatures above 180C. So I don't think the pages you talk about a relevant to distillation as we are not getting to these temperatures at all in distillation. With regards to weight change I think you might also be getting confused with the fact that all polymers will have a degree of permeability and a positive weight change when exposed to some chemicals doesn't represent a degradation of the material but rather an absorption of that product. As you can see from the chemical resistance chart when the PPSU is exposed to ethanol a small percentage soaks into the PPSU. This is also the same with water absorption too. That is completely different to something leaching into your spirit that comes from the plastic which we have already tested for and it simply doesn't happen.
These products are a game changer, I've been collecting them for ages now and I've just about got the whole range. The spp is all I need now. Thanks Kee for the driving lesson now I've got a fair idea of how to drive it. Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and The Team 🎄👍.
We have a new collector plate design that is shown in the video. This new collector plate in the video makes it faster to get vapor out of the column. If you had the earlier model with the smaller vapor outlet please let us know in the new year and we can get a new replacement sent out to you with the larger vapor hole.
Great video, have been waiting for more on these PPSU still parts, I was hoping to hear some scientific facts about PPSU and high temperature ethanol to ease my mind, Does seem to be some confusion on condenser names, calling a reflux condenser a product condenser, yes you could configure it that way if you chose to, but the way you have set it up, its a reflux condenser, calling a Liebig condenser a shotgun, two different things that do the same job. All in all a great job explaining the differences between CM,VM and LM stills.
Sorry about the confusion. The still has two condensers on it: The coil looking 3" TC "product condenser" and also the second condenser is the "shotgun" condenser that is a straight stainless rod that has 5 x 1/2" threads on it. When you assemble the whole still with both condensers and fill the column with packing the entire assembly becomes a "reflux still". I hope that makes a bit more sense. Yes one of the other guys in the office have already paid me out for using the term "shotgun" as well.
I like the concept of see-through distillation components. My main issues is long term durability and the advantage of using a metal such as copper which can act to extract sulphur from the products. This of course can be overcome by including a packed section of the column that contains material such as copper cylinders, wool or saddles. I would use these plastic cylindrical sections in a column but spaced out across the column length (say one at the top, middle and bottom). There are stainless steel housed slight glass sections available for distillation columns that are now very economical. I am not sure how economical these plastic sections are in comparison. Controlling a distillation column is very challenging. The level and ethanol concentration, in the pot declines with time and the heat input must adjust for these changes. It's very dynamic even when running well. In reality you cannot say the column is in equilibrium because product is being extracted and concentrations are continually changing with time. It's a kind of pseudo or quasi equilibrium state with the goal of running the column in a smooth way) (the heat loss issue with metallic columns is easily solved by installing some thermal installation around the column)
I would agree that a small amount of copper is a good idea to act as a catalyst to release sulfur. With that there is no reason to make the entire still out of copper as you simply do not get more and more sulfur released with more and more copper used. I should also say that the copper should be used and treated like a "consumable". We do sell bubble capper plates made from copper and in the future we will also have the SPP made from copper too. So this is a very easy way to get the copper exposure you would need to release sulfur. You could also just get some scrap offcuts of copper pipe and pack it in a section of the column and achieve the same result
You can apply for a permit which is a fairly straight forward process. In fact this youtuber here has a really good channel and recently just got a permit so he could legally distill his own alcohol: ruclips.net/video/El2yN8RC7PM/видео.html
Fantastic stuff Kee. I'll be into it for sure. How resilient are the plastics after repeated use after exposure to heat & solvents? And another thing... the gutsy Pro lid for the 35L brewzilla has a 2 inch vertical port (3 inch view port). So will be there be a v2 Pro lid with 3 inch vertical tri clover port for the 35L boilers/zillas? or do we just get a 2-3 inch coupling from elsewhere?
The PPSU plastic is resistant to a wide range of solvents including ethanol. Did you want to use the still with solvents other than ethanol? The particular grade we use is "Radel R5500" and you can readily download the chemical resistance chart for this. Yes for the pro distillation lids you will need to get a 2" to 3" reducer. That is correct.
Are you getting better results from the SPP or the bubble plates for vodka? 5 sections is about as high as the roof will let me go so looking to maximise the reflux in that height.
The SPP for sure. I will cover this in a video. If you have 1 meter of SPP packing you would need about 20 bubble capper plates to get an equivalent result. So the SPP is: 1. More compact as 20 bubble capper chambers would be enormous 2. More cost effective as the SPP is less expensive than 20 bubble capper plate sections
Yes we have more parts arriving soon and then we will put them together as kits on the website. At the moment it's a bit confusing working out how it all goes together. The particular hose we recommend for vapour management is on the way via air mail. Our current sizes were too small so we had to get a new larger diameter size manufactured for this application.
Absolutely next level super impressed with what you guys are doing I'm thinking you're going to blow everyone else out of the water. Don't even get me started all that SPP gives me a certain feeling lol
As much as I love the idea, the solvay chemical resistance chart (can't have links apparently) page 34, table 29 has ethanol, acetone and Ethyl acetate all having weight and visual changes to the Radel PPSU at room temperature. As these are all in distillate so I question the suitability of Radel PPSU for a hot distillate. I’d at least want to see some testing to ensure nothing is ending up in the product.
Hey Andrew. I can appreciate your concerns as all new materials should be thoroughly tested. We have been doing testing on this resin grade for 2 years now and have extensive test results carried out. In fact our test results showed that comparing a "lead free" silver soldered copper still and then compared the test results to the PPSU. The PPSU had no transmission of plasticizers or monomers migrating from the plastic into the ethanol when tested at 75C for multiple days and was below all detectable thresholds for for other mineral compounds. When we tested the copper still that had been silver soldered with "lead free" brazing rod we had detectable levels of mineral migration including led, copper and tin in the sample. So if anything I would say a traditional still is likely to have more contaminants than one injection molded from PPSU.
We did not use ethyl acetate or acetone but I can't see many customers putting these solvents into the still in particular. Even if you did want to use solvent extraction for some other food grade applications these solvents would not make sense.
As specified by the resin manufacturer you can see changes in the material at temperatures above 180C. So I don't think the pages you talk about a relevant to distillation as we are not getting to these temperatures at all in distillation. With regards to weight change I think you might also be getting confused with the fact that all polymers will have a degree of permeability and a positive weight change when exposed to some chemicals doesn't represent a degradation of the material but rather an absorption of that product. As you can see from the chemical resistance chart when the PPSU is exposed to ethanol a small percentage soaks into the PPSU. This is also the same with water absorption too. That is completely different to something leaching into your spirit that comes from the plastic which we have already tested for and it simply doesn't happen.
That spring in the parrot is bloody brilliant
Yes it should be in all distillation parrots.
just ordered, probably one of the first polyphoenixes in poland
These products are a game changer, I've been collecting them for ages now and I've just about got the whole range. The spp is all I need now. Thanks Kee for the driving lesson now I've got a fair idea of how to drive it. Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and The Team 🎄👍.
We have a new collector plate design that is shown in the video. This new collector plate in the video makes it faster to get vapor out of the column. If you had the earlier model with the smaller vapor outlet please let us know in the new year and we can get a new replacement sent out to you with the larger vapor hole.
@@KegLand Thanks I will Merry Xmas.
Black Wiggle is my favourite.
I am not sure how to respond. I am flattered!
Thanks Kee. Looking forward to more videos on the operation of these.
Any chance of the link you mentioned at the ends?
Yes I am doing more recoding today and I will do some rum, whiskey and vodka on this unit too.
I know what I'm buying this. Beautiful customizable design! love it!
Thanks for the support. We really appreciate it.
Thanks for the detailed video. I'd love the link to Pavel's channel 🙏
This is his software platform:
instagram.com/zhazhinpavel/
His instagram:
instagram.com/zhazhinpavel/
Great video, have been waiting for more on these PPSU still parts, I was hoping to hear some scientific facts about PPSU and high temperature ethanol to ease my mind, Does seem to be some confusion on condenser names, calling a reflux condenser a product condenser, yes you could configure it that way if you chose to, but the way you have set it up, its a reflux condenser, calling a Liebig condenser a shotgun, two different things that do the same job. All in all a great job explaining the differences between CM,VM and LM stills.
Sorry about the confusion. The still has two condensers on it:
The coil looking 3" TC "product condenser" and also the second condenser is the "shotgun" condenser that is a straight stainless rod that has 5 x 1/2" threads on it. When you assemble the whole still with both condensers and fill the column with packing the entire assembly becomes a "reflux still". I hope that makes a bit more sense.
Yes one of the other guys in the office have already paid me out for using the term "shotgun" as well.
@@KegLand PolyPhoenix - Modular Hammerhead / Vertical Condenser - PPSU 3 Inch TC "reflux condenser" can also be used as a product condenser.
Looks great. Have you tested them running under a vacuum?
Kee, will you release some electronic column monitoring to stop distilation when head temperature goes too far? :-)
Looks great, want to get into distilling but dont know where to start! This looks great with the flexibility and will fit on my gen4.
Yes, if you already have a Gen 4 then this unit is ideal.
I like the concept of see-through distillation components.
My main issues is long term durability and the advantage of using a metal such as copper which can act to extract sulphur from the products. This of course can be overcome by including a packed section of the column that contains material such as copper cylinders, wool or saddles.
I would use these plastic cylindrical sections in a column but spaced out across the column length (say one at the top, middle and bottom).
There are stainless steel housed slight glass sections available for distillation columns that are now very economical.
I am not sure how economical these plastic sections are in comparison.
Controlling a distillation column is very challenging. The level and ethanol concentration, in the pot declines with time and the heat input must adjust for these changes. It's very dynamic even when running well. In reality you cannot say the column is in equilibrium because product is being extracted and concentrations are continually changing with time. It's a kind of pseudo or quasi equilibrium state with the goal of running the column in a smooth way)
(the heat loss issue with metallic columns is easily solved by installing some thermal installation around the column)
I would agree that a small amount of copper is a good idea to act as a catalyst to release sulfur. With that there is no reason to make the entire still out of copper as you simply do not get more and more sulfur released with more and more copper used. I should also say that the copper should be used and treated like a "consumable". We do sell bubble capper plates made from copper and in the future we will also have the SPP made from copper too. So this is a very easy way to get the copper exposure you would need to release sulfur. You could also just get some scrap offcuts of copper pipe and pack it in a section of the column and achieve the same result
@KegLand true - cheers
Looks really great, I'd love to buy it, pity that distilling alcohol in Australia is illegal though
You can apply for a permit which is a fairly straight forward process. In fact this youtuber here has a really good channel and recently just got a permit so he could legally distill his own alcohol:
ruclips.net/video/El2yN8RC7PM/видео.html
What is the link for thet distiller that you referred to?
This is his instagram:
instagram.com/zhazhinpavel/
With the hammerhead style is it slightly beveled to allow liquid to run back down column or does some stay resting inside hammerhead?
Fantastic stuff Kee. I'll be into it for sure. How resilient are the plastics after repeated use after exposure to heat & solvents?
And another thing... the gutsy Pro lid for the 35L brewzilla has a 2 inch vertical port (3 inch view port). So will be there be a v2 Pro lid with 3 inch vertical tri clover port for the 35L boilers/zillas? or do we just get a 2-3 inch coupling from elsewhere?
The PPSU plastic is resistant to a wide range of solvents including ethanol. Did you want to use the still with solvents other than ethanol? The particular grade we use is "Radel R5500" and you can readily download the chemical resistance chart for this.
Yes for the pro distillation lids you will need to get a 2" to 3" reducer. That is correct.
Will these ship to the U.S.?
Are you getting better results from the SPP or the bubble plates for vodka?
5 sections is about as high as the roof will let me go so looking to maximise the reflux in that height.
The SPP for sure. I will cover this in a video. If you have 1 meter of SPP packing you would need about 20 bubble capper plates to get an equivalent result. So the SPP is:
1. More compact as 20 bubble capper chambers would be enormous
2. More cost effective as the SPP is less expensive than 20 bubble capper plate sections
@ Thanks, any estimate on number of bags per 3” section (or number of 3” sections per bag😋)
Will you be selling the setup in the video as a kit? What hose do you use for the vapor management?
and can you please add the link ot the channel you referenced - pavel?
Yes we have more parts arriving soon and then we will put them together as kits on the website. At the moment it's a bit confusing working out how it all goes together.
The particular hose we recommend for vapour management is on the way via air mail. Our current sizes were too small so we had to get a new larger diameter size manufactured for this application.
@@KegLand Thanks very helpful can't wait - what was the youtube channel he said he would link?
plastic and alcohol...? hmmm
Does mentioned guy Pavel have some youtube channel?
This is Pavel's instagram:
instagram.com/zhazhinpavel/
@@KegLand thank you :-)
Is it actually legal to own one of these and make your own alcohol now?
If you are in New Zealand it's completely legal.
the one on the looks like a tesla coil
Looks like a flux capacitor
Haha. Yes if you drink enough of the distillate it will also transport you into the future : )
Absolutely next level super impressed with what you guys are doing I'm thinking you're going to blow everyone else out of the water. Don't even get me started all that SPP gives me a certain feeling lol
Thanks for that Bradley! We have some awesome distillation stuff on the horizon so keen to do more videos in this area in the future.