The Problem with Coding and College
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Things are changing! What are the factors to consider with regards to going to college to learn to code?
#college #learntocode #javascript
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Yep, youre right. For most coding jobs, just 'codemonkeying' code with some framework and high-level language to translate simple business rules, you don't need a college degree at all. The same goes for most web development; just JavaScript or PHP, some database ORM, and you're good to go. However, if the project is part of an engineering project which demands solid and deep knowledge of advanced mathematics, performant algorithms down to the very detail (for example, GPUs, AI accelerators, mapping traffic routes in real-time combining edge with central data computing where graph theory is a must, or automata parsers where category theory is again a must, etc.), yes, you need either a CS degree or the equivalent systematic knowledge in-depth of those disciplines. There are two different fields in the very same IT, like in most technical professions, hence the difference between technicians (coders) and engineers (metacoders).
Google was promoting an online learning platform. To quote a user on Reddit “I'm not a huge fan of university education but one thing it does teach you is the critical thinking to identify the difference between a meaningful statement on education and a press release promoting an online learning platform.
Guess which one this is? 🤔”
For real, the guy is taking the criticism of the value of education for the purpose of plugging his own stuff too far.
You made me smile - like yourself - been developing for over 30 years. People still find it amazing when I say I program computer - "so I don't have to do maths". I don't think I've ever had to do anything more complicated than a standard deviation or average and then I just called a function.
Experienced developers know the truth ...
I wrote a really long reply before I realize that no one would read it or care.
I just wanted to say that I use math to solve programming problems ALL the time. I'm a self taught developer and have spent the last year working from 4th grade math up to Calculus, Linear Algebra and Discrete math. I have no degree, turning 40 this year and will be finishing my Computer Science degree in the next few months. Since I have become more confident with math I have been able to solve so many problems, and solve them more efficiently. I recently rewrote 250 lines of python spaghetti into just a handful of trig functions. Using a little bit of trig and a lot of discrete math I was able to rewrite data ingestion scripts to cut the time of the calculations down from dozens of hours to a just a few minutes (around 2x10^9 data points being loaded each afternoon).
So I guess you don't need math, but I've certainly leveled up as an engineer since I've started to really embrace it and use it to solve problems.
Several company recruiters on Reddit said the company has stopped accepting applicants without degrees due to the number of people applying for a position.
I'm not sure if I should take what some redditors say as an accurate representation of reality.
On one hand you have extremely salty college degrees and delusional self-taughts chasing positions only at the fortune 500 or something, and then engaging in extreme levels of doom posting when things don't go their way.
And on the other hand you have developers, analyst, etc. claiming to have had a much easier time finding a job once they stopped chasing jobs exclusively at tech companies.
That website has a ton of conflicting information that should be taken for what it is.
@@MyBodyIsReggie1 I agree, there is obviously no proof of them being a recruiter. However, I can see 1000+ applicants for a single position a nightmare to sort through.
@@dad30189Agreed, but for what I understand much of that work is already being filtered by A.I tools
@@MyBodyIsReggie1 People say that college sucks for learning to code. Others say its the shoddy bootcamps that do the most damage. And still others think that self-taught is a joke. You’re never going to please em all
You are John of God, Stef. I mean you're really doing God's work by helping all these people. Thumbs up.
I agree 100% with your statement on the university library as the main reason to go to college. Now the books in Barnes and Noble are much better than any textbook. For example the 1999 book C++ in 21 days will teach more than the two course sequence on intro to programming. This is the basis on my course C++ in 31 days where i teach the theory and coding examples.
Thanks! for Sharing
I think going to college helps give me structure and urgency. And then I supplement with materials I find online but I don’t plan to hang my hat on simply having a degree. My school isn’t good anyway
A self-taught freelance dev with three years of experience will run circles around a degree dweeb, but if both apply to a company guess who will get the job. The degree dweeb who has never produced a real world project for a client or employer ever.
When I first started in the industry I would 100% agree with you (as a bootcamp grad), now three years later several layoffs, it’s hard for me to even get noticed for a job.
Uncle Stef, I want to say thank you for your contents. Thank you so much and I just started to teach myself coding through your platform, and through other free resources online. I really appreciate your thoughts and inputs which give me a lot of courage to learn coding on my own. I love watching your videos!!! More power to you and God bless.
You are very welcome
speaking big facts uncle stef
Very informative, like some film directors also say don't go to film school
This video was a like a bitter medicine. It's like going to the dentist: it hurts and it's not necessarily pleasurable, but it's absolutely necessary to be healthy. I wish someone would have told me this long ago.
hey, im currently learning python to work as a backend dev, is it a good idea to get a cs degree to be a machine learning engineer? or should i just stick with backend to make the most amount of money
>backend dev, >python
hi Steph
when i went to uni in ont,
they were teaching modula-2
i liked it but nobody made anything in modula-2 ever.
always a C fan tho.
So the conclusion is that!
We need some primary school, which teach reading, writing, basic arithmetic, and little bit of history and geography. This learning process continues 5 years and after that every person must continue to follow his/her own dreams. Thanks to modern technologies we have access to any kind of information and the people can learn it on their own. After some time the people can become doctors, economists, traders,...........and most important programmers. Programmers are the most valuable specialists on this planet.
Those who are coming through the schools, who have a good knowledge of programming and developed Apps and a good way of communicating their ideas and what the app does, probably don't need to go to college or university, but instead an apprenticeship with a company
Quick question. Do you think the Math(cal, stats, physics) courses conditions people how to think like a problem slover seeing that math forces you to create subset problems to slove a bigger complex problem?
I know that you don't need math to be a programmer but is math's relationship to coding is like the relationship of boxing and jogging.
In short, is math and physics like roadwork for programmers?
If you are getting into programming that requires math and physics (game engine development, Ai research, big data processing) ... sure. Most programming though, is more like architecture (of buildings), so you have to have a more macro-logical thinking mind (if you will) ... that would align more closely with most software development. That said, all things help.
You don’t need math for basic frontend web development. The math that is actually going to help you for most highly technical software engineering is not Calculus, it’s more intermediate/advanced topics like linear algebra and discrete math because algorithms and data structures is based on that. If want to go into deep learning then, partial differential equations and statistical inference will also be important. If you want to do security, then number theory is the mathematics of crypto. For backend/database engineering, a foundation in abstract algebra could actually help you understand database theory and new systems easily. But just knowing calculus and basic mechanics is not going to be any useful, though it will make you a better learner!
With all this said, if I was going to recommend a coding bootcamp grad to study an area of math, I would always recommend Real Analysis. This area of math teaches you how to write rigorous proofs of ideas you take for granted in calculus and there’s an extremely close connection between proving mathematics theorems and writing good optimized code. Hence why you’ve probably observed a connection between great mathematical thinkers and great software engineers.
Its true even if it's free the time/opportunity/sanity wasted is enough to think about it. Also, most teachers encourage student to look into YT to learn the materials which they're supposed to teach and they're too demanding on projects they didn't even teach!
Yes, 3 body problem
I work at a university as a database programmer. I do not have a degree. If that doesn't prove your point, I don't know what will.
university education depends on the field, something like medicine, you need that university education, but if it's something like programming, university helps, but a lot of people did it without it
Anthropology is the Ruby of the humanities and social sciences.
😂
But I met some programmers who cannot even speak English fluently.
Some programmers are from other places. 🤯
@@ultravioletiris6241 I know but they still do not speak English fluently. How can they become professional programmers? I don’t think they can communicate well.
@@MobileDeveloper1965I’m fairly sure there are professional programmers out there that have never spoken a word of English in their life.
Other languages exist and can definitely operate completely independently from English. 😅
@@TheOriginalDuckley I meant professional programmers in USA.
I think going to college for a 2 year program is the best way to go. You still get a formal education but it's much cheaper and usually more hands on. That way you can still get that "engineer" word on your resume, and also still get the opportunity to land co-op placements and collaborate with fellow students.
The first 2 years are the time wasting years. Better to do a trades program than sit in a bunch of gen eds if you’re not trying to transfer to a 4-yr
@@PaladinLeeroy42069 4 year is where you accumulate debt and it’s unnecessary unless you want to work at a big faang company or something. If you want a job fast do what I said (it worked for me)
Too bad that Sweden don’t have it like many other countries.
Here it’s all about that grade from school that piece of paper.
You can be worlds best programmer with good portfolio apps and so on.
But if you don’t have the paper you ain’t getting the job
You don't need a bootcamp either. You need to read books and you also need math and physics, so yes, you need a college but most of all you need DISCIPLINE. Not going to college and being successful is an exception.
The words tunnel vision springs to mind here, I appreciate that some of your points are valid, but given your bias, this seems very much geared to your business model and no specific data backs your argument other than your own view of the world. That said universities in the UK do have some of the symptoms you identify. It is also why we have 1 year courses to get people on the ladder quickly without the 4 year debt you are referring to.
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