I teach open access online courses for the University of Oxford. If you fancy taking a course with me, you can find out more information about the courses here: www.conted.ox.ac.uk/tutors/7139
Oh wow! I am SERIOUSLY considering this as a summer gift to myself! But for now, I can't get over the fact that British people spell enroll with one L! What?!? 🤯
Good to see you back! I'd think about taking the Jane Austen course, but I'm such a slow reader (I misread stuff all the time and have to read it again) - not sure I'd keep up. I might be the only bloke too.
Mary Bennet had the same thoughts as Charlotte Lucas, they knows that Mr Collins is manageable, and they can make of hin what they want to do with that, but Charlotte is more awake and more experienced in the matter. Is nice to have You Back!!
I love how the inclusion of Mary in the family really drives home what a fraud Mr Collins is- if he was really as sober and pious and thoughtful as he presents himself, he would have naturally chosen Mary, who was perfect for him in her temperament and actually possessed the traits he attempted to project onto Lizzie… but that’s not what he does. He goes for the prettiest sisters in order and doesn’t actually look deeply into who they are as people. Mary would have LOVED to listen to him reading moral treatise every evening.😅
I think it would have made him look less good, if he was known to have gone for the younger one over the older one, even today people look down on men who choose the younger woman, but absolutely, he doesn't really know what he is doing, his virtue is performative. Good people read sermons so he reads sermons, etc.
@kahkah1986 that's an interesting perspective. It's making me look at the story differently. It never occurred to me, about the age difference. I suppose that may be another reason Mr. Collins wouldn't consider Mary - she's not pretty or witty enough to get his attention and he doesn't seem to seriously consider the younger girls; maybe bc without intriguing qualities (to him) he doesn't even "see" them due to young age? Austen makes a strong reference to Charlotte's age. The only Austen story where I personally noticed age difference was Emma. You're right about culture- even now, that's not seen as widely "acceptable", so might not be in line w Mr. Collins ideas for his reputation.
And moralising herself. I always thought they would have been well suited. They’d sort of echo chamber each other’s ego of accomplishment and propriety. They’d likely be insufferable to everyone around them, but at least one of the Bennett girls could have retained Longbourn and Mary probably would have been happier in the relationship than Charlotte.
I agree that Mr Collins is attracted by looks over any other characteristic, but, to be fair to him, he would also consider it right to proceed in order of age. Lydia makes much of being married before any of her sisters, but it was generally considered preferable for older sisters to be married before younger ones. Remember how shocked Lady Catherine is when she learns that the younger sisters are all "out" before the older ones are married!
Honestly, while Mary may have been attracted to him as a like-minded person, Charlotte is the more functional match. There's no indication of Mary's skill level in household economy, we're told explicitly that she can't cook, and she's not socially perceptive in the networking/politicking way that might help Mr. Collins to rise in the church. I think the theoretical Mary Collins would struggle to maintain her high-minded philosophizing in a life with suddenly increased practical demands.
I think sucking up to Lady Catherine would have galled. They were an obvious match by the obvious standards, but I do not think they would have been a felicitous one (Charlotte had fewer options, and knew what she was signing up for- I'm glad for Mary and her semicanonical uncle's clerk).
I played Mary Bennett many years ago, and the production I was in leaned heavily into middle child syndrome. Mary is the most isolated of the sisters - everyone else has a built in buddy. I ultimately saw her obsession with books as a desperate way to make some sort of connection with her father, because she has given up on even being seen by the rest of her family. Also, every 18 year old intellectual ever is pretty insufferable for a few years.
One thing to remember is that Mr. Collins was a young man himself, about 25 years of age. Most of the movies and series show him as much older. Mary thinking that she can help out her peer is much more reasonable than her thinking she can influence a 35-year-old, which is how he is usually portrayed.
I think maybe it's done to make his character seem worse...? When reading the original text he's pretty obnoxious, for sure, but it does seem as if (like Lydia) his folly is at least partially contributed to by his youth and lack of experience? Not sure if he would've improved with age, mind you, esp. with Lady C egging him on and no check to his idiocies from Charlotte who seems rather to try and just avoid him as much as possible!
His behaviour does seem sillier when you think of how young he is but I often think kindly of him - and that he means well and has no ill intent so Charlotte should feel good about that.
I think the novel points out that he is old for his years, & that's why they age the character. OTOH, none of the actresses who play the sisters are in their teens, or 21/22....
I think there's an interesting contrast between how Mary's feelings towards Mr Collins and Charlotte's. Mary is interested in moulding him into someone she would be happy with, Charlotte is focused on how to engineer her situation to make herself content with him as he is. I think Mr Collins' follies are not likely to be changed which untimately makes Charlotte a better match for him. She is able to be content without expecting him to change, whereas had Mary married him she would likely have ended up miserable when she discovered she could not force the improvements she wanted to make to his character.
Even before the explicit "invasion" of Mary's mind, her behavior has already given the reader the sense that Mary may be interested in Mr Collins. She is the only one of the Bennett sisters who willingly listens to him read and philosophize. (He doesn't seem to take the hint.) So Austen's peek behind the curtains of Mary's thoughts confirms what we have already come to suspect.
It was deeply hinted at in the 1995 series and 2005 movie that Mary clearly fancied Mr Collins. If Charlotte hadn't come to the house by chance that day, then he probably would have proposed to Mary, as she was the next sister after Lizzy. Mind you, Lydia would have been deeply annoyed if her "plain" sister got married before her. XD
I have to partially disagree with you about Charlotte. After Lizzie rejected Mr.Collins, Charlotte hung around him a lot more/ invited his attention/ listened to him. She clearly let him know that she was available and agreeable to him, if he were to propose (just like what she encouraged Jane to do with Mr.Bingley). I don't think Mr.Collins ever really thought of Mary Bennet, as he didn't have time to do so. Jane was made unavailable, Elizabeth had all his attention for most of his stay, so much so that she suspected he wanted to propose to her before it even happened, and then once she refused him, Charlotte influenced him to consider her as his potential wife. I don't even think Mary was ever an option in Mr.Collins' mind.
We know from Charlotte’s earlier conversation with Elizabeth on the subject of marriage that Charlotte understood the necessity of pretending to feel more than one did for a prospective partner. And she also would have noted Collins’ designs on Elizabeth and known full well that his suit would not be received well by her friend. She had already started making herself subtly agreeable to Collins before it even occurred to Mary that such a thing could be allowed. Mary’s lack of social awareness was a severe handicap in her romantic hopes.
Although Mary's absence wouldn't have changed the plot, she does have a tiny tangential affect - her public performance at the dance, insisting on showing off what she thought of as her accomplishment, was the means for others of the Bennet family to act in a way that Darcy thought inappropriate, low class. He refers to it in 'The Letter'. It was one of the reasons that he advised Bingley to forget Jane, and something that Lizzie had dismissed and forgotten. On reading the letter, Lizzie realised her whole family acted such that they couldn't have made a better job of scuppering Jane's chances if it had been deliberately planned. Btw, great to see you back!
I certainly agree that Mary would have accepted Mr. Collins, but I doubt Mr. Collins would have redirected his attentions to Mary. He had so high an opinion of himself that despite proposing to Elizabeth, one of the two prettiest and brightest of the sisters, he still felt compelled to remind her that she would inherit little from her father-and that thus his attentions were particularly disinterested and Lizzie particularly fortunate to receive them. Charlotte, on the other hand, while plain, has a titled father whose significant estate and familiarity with appearances at Court, etc., would have appealed to Mr. Collins’ vanity and ambition.
I agree! Mr. Collins was very fond of himself. When Lady Catherine chose him, she inflated his ego to the stratosphere. During his proposal to Lizzie, he talked as though he was really quite a catch and felt sure she would marry him. He thought himself much superior to dull, unattractive Mary, and I think he married Charlotte to spite the Bennets for Lizzie’s refusal as well as for his perceived superiority over Mary. He also wouldn’t want to take the chance that a third Bennet sister might reject him.
He was going to propose to Jane but when he saw another man courting her, he gave up and courted Lizzy. It's awful how little he thought of them as people.
Charlotte's family was NOT wealthy and the knighted father was not much of an asset, they were accepted in their circles, but were not outstanding. Charlotte saw that realistic, for her the proposal of Mr. Collins was good luck (the knighthood of her father meant nothing to potential suitors and it did not really give them a HIGH status. They were acceptable, but nothing more. Everyone knew that her father had been in trade before he got knighted, likely Mr. Collins saw himself higher in status even before he would inherit the Bennet property. Her father gave up trade for the title and for becoming part of the gentry. (He could not be a gentleman and continute to be in trade). He was foolish to do so, the family would have been better off financially if he had not aspired for higher socials status. The family did not have a cook (the girls had to help in the kitchen), Mrs. Bennet was proud that she kept a much better table (so better food, and more dishes per meal to chose from). The Lucas' girls most likely could not expect a decent dowry and Charlotte said that she is already a burden on her parents (being 29 or 27, I forgot the number, she mentions it when she tells Lizzy that she is engaged to Mr. Collins). They were not wealthy OR prestigious, they just could keep up ....
@@RKNancy No Mrs. Bennet - when Mr. Collins disclosed his intentions (which were honorable btw) - told him right away that Jane was as good as engaged (Mr. Bingley was still around, so she did not even lie) but as for Lizzy I do not know of any attachment. SHE greenlighted Lizzy for him. (And Mary knew of course that no one even CONSIDERED her, not her mother and not Mr. Collins).
My first impression of this set up and disappointed pay off was to cast shade on Mr. Collins character; that he would pursue the most beautiful available Bennett sister and not the one he was, in theory, most suited to. He cared more about beauty, charm and flattery than his air of values.
Indeed. Also it is extra painful to Mrs Bennet. Had Collins married Mary after Lizzy’s refusal, all would be well and Lizzy would be forgiven instantly. But with Lizzy’s best friend Charlotte snapping up Mr Collins, Lizzy ruined the family’s fortune in her mother’s eyes. 😅
@@elianwolfert3879 It always seemed to me consistent with the Bennets' general neglect of Mary. They don't really notice her until later, when all the other sisters have moved away. They don't even think about pointing Mr. Collins in her direction. Still, he's probably better off with Charlotte as she is so practical.
Mr. Collins is clearly written as someone whose preference is easy to sway. He's the sort of person, had he proposed down the entire flock of the Bennet sisters, would have easily found ways to qualify why each of them was the loveliest in his eye, and certainly the best suited for him, in the required order, without ever as much as a suggestion of backbone. He's very dedicated to playing the part of a virtuous man, but lacks true principled virtues. It should be noted that at the time, personal compatibility between prospective future spouses, while often considered an important thing to consider for a successful match, was thought of in very different terms to how we think of it today. We may think of how temperaments and personality types will play off each other, whether traits will cause tensions or mesh well together, how strong and weak points may overlap and aggravate or compensate, and so on. For the 1810s, being compatible was more of a smell test. Does it seem evident that profound misery is unavoidable should the two enter wedlock? No? They're passing compatible. Another important point is that proposing in descending age order was thought as the proper thing to do. As long as Lizzie was eligible, it would have been an affront to her and her parents to bypass her as the eldest daughter. Women may not been able to inherit, but their birth order was still a precedence to be respected. Bypassing the Miss Bennett without as much as a token suggestion to propose, for her or her parents to turn down, would not just be rude but constitute a red flag. Who would flout such basic propriety to pursue a younger sister? A frivolous man of the worst sort, one concerned more with superficial charm and satisfying romantic fancies than making a functional match for running a household and a family. And Mr. Collins may be a superficial and coarse-witted buffoon, but he's not one to flout propriety.
It's funny that Mrs. Bennet thinks that Mary "might have been prevailed on to accept" Mr. Collins. It shows that despite her determination to get him as an son-in-law, even she knows that Mr. Collins is a bit of a hard sell.
Mrs. Bennet does not know her children very well nor does she care to know them either. If she had she would have pushed Mr. Collins in the direction of Mary to begin with. That she even thought Lizzie would accept him shows how delusional she really is. This whole ordeal is in the book to illustrate how selfish and self absorbed she really is.
I agree with your analysis about Mary Bennett. Even after the analysis you covered here, when the scandal of Lydia and Wickham was revealed to everyone, Mr. Collins has to come to the Bennett house and share his condemnation of the situation. His attitude of self- judgment as a relative, minister and connections with with Lady Catherine de Bourgh. As he leaves the Bennett house, Lizzy expresses her thoughts about Collins, which was a true assessment, but Mary states she felt his motives were pure and correct. Again, we see Mary's opinions of high morals and she's the one who doesn't hesitate to share them...just like Mr. Collins did.
For a minor character, Mary is well formed. We know she thinks she isn't as pretty as her sisters which has stimulated her desire for education, and unfortunately for performance as her talent does not reflect her hard work. We know that Lydia never listens to her. She has this desire I feel for affirmation and credit and Mr. Collins is weirdly similar to her on some points. They both express the pompous morality of the day that Mr. Bennett described with Mary as 'reading texts'. He too is a performer both in the pulpit and socially. He always needs to be noticed be it name dropping or otherwise. They both have a lack of awareness. Note his attitude to Lizzie Bennett's advice when he decided to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy. So Mary's tender hope that she would guide him is misguided and I am so pleased their engagement never happened.
So lovely to hear you again! When Elizabeth, after reading Darcy’s letter of explanation, is considering the justice of some of Darcy’s observations on her family and she admits to herself that even her beloved father is not without flaws, I think of Mary and how Mr. Bennett could have steered her mind and opened her heart. She seems genuinely pitiable to me; she may not have Elizabeth’s sparkling wit, but Mary does have an intellect that wishes to be employed. Mary always seemed redeemable.I hope she packed up, left home, got swept off to an archaeological dig, learned to drink and to swear (lightly), took up wearing pants, had a bunch of lovers, and died at an advanced age, very well pleased with her life. Might you, Dr. Cox, sometime give us a talk on why Jane and Elizabeth turned out so differently than the other girls? It seems that Elizabeth benefitted from her father’s attention, but even then she has a kinder heart than time with her sardonic father is likely to have inculcated. Is it that Jane and Lizzie were the first two, that the prospect of a boy still seemed on the horizon when they were born and so their births were not as disappointing as that of three more non-males? Might Mrs. Bennett have been less flighty then? Is there any evidence in the text for my conjectures?
@@gowrinandana8999 I agree with your point. Jane and Elizabeth are said to have often been staying in town with the Gardiner's; if that began at a young age, say 9 or 10, the Gardiner's positive influence would certainly have helped shape Jane's & Elizabeth's characters. But did the 3 younger girls receive this benefit? It seems not, but we don't know. Were they ever asked? Were they interested in going? Did the births of the Gardiner's children affect these decisions? We can only speculate.
Poor Mary. I think this little excerpt reveals something of her earnest desire for marriage and companionship. She is a romantic, just like the rest of the Bennetts! She is also the loneliest member of that family-and tries to puff herself up to compensate for the lack of love and respect. She’s a good foil to Charlotte, who likewise is not pretty, but has the confidence and awareness (and familial support) to better her situation.
That‘s exactly what I feel about Mary. Adding to the parallel between Charlotte and Mary, Mary is about 10 years younger (roundabout 18?!). This could also have been an important point for Mr Collins.
It is wonderful to see you back! Thank you for posting. I always love watching your videos. Mary always struck me as a character who never feels adequate in the ways society tells her really matter: she isn't beautiful, she isn't vivacious or sparkling, she isn't fashionable, and she doesn't stand out. She has no support or friendships, not even in her own house. It's a very lonely life, and she is very young. Without any direction, she tries to stand out through modesty, talent, hard work, and intellect. In a lot of ways, she's an early predecessor of the "not like other girls" trope. She is competing with her sisters on her own terms, but within the bounds of society. I think it's important that she is trying to set herself up as more moral and more intelligent. She can't get her mother's love, not being a beauty, but she can compete for her father with Lizzy. Austen has a keen eye for the actions of neglected children. Mary's brittle pride and hubristic identity are spot on. Addition: When I first read P&P, I got the impression that Mary was following all of the dictats of Fordyce and waiting for Mr. Collins to take notice of her as a proper candidate for his interest. Had he been more intelligent and less hypocritical, he might have. But it is probably lucky for the both of them that he didn't. It really would take someone like Charlotte Collins to see him as he is and act accordingly.
I really feel for Mary in the piano scene where Mr Bennet tells her that she has delighted them enough! She is easily smart enough to know what he really means and of course the incident has an important influence on Mr Darcy's not very stellar opinion of the family.
@keithprice475 It is sad. Mary really seems to crave approval in spite of claiming modesty--she is human--and she is slighted and neglected by everyone the harder she tries to "improve".
Thank you for, once again, giving support to what I had subconsciously absorbed. I agree with another commenter that, although Mary would have liked to become Mrs. Collins, she would not have been as successful as Charlotte.
This analysis is absolutely lovely. Mary is a character often seen as a character foil or comic relief. It’s absolutely masterful how Austen captures her pride and prejudice in so few sentences.
I often think, if only the Bennets had had a family meeting and discussed Mr. Collins willingness to marry one of the girls! It would have been obvious that Mary was the only daughter willing to give him a chance.
I agree. Mrs. Bennett was pretty clueless about her daughters, assuming Lizzy would of course accept him, but if Mr. Bennett had pushed her and pushed Mr. Collins towards Mary, things would have ended differently. I always saw this as more of an example of Mr. Bennett’s apathy than anything else. Mr. Collins, with all his flaws, would have helped the family tremendously by marrying a Bennett daughter. Mr. Bennett just…didn’t seem to care.
I don't think that would have been viewed as seemly, and it would have been far too democratic-looking for Mrs. Bennet's taste. I suspect that if Mr. Bennet had got wind of it, he would have put his foot down. Mr. Collins' pomposity and lack of sense amused him, but not to the point that he would have liked to have him for a son-in-law. If Charlotte had not been so quick off the mark, though, I suppose he would have agreed to a Mary/Mr. Collins match as being probably the best she would attract.
Mr. Bennet did care; he really did not want Mr. Collins as a son-in-law. Whether he was acting in the best interests of his daughters is another question.
Yeah, but Mary wasn't good looking enough to satisfy his vanity. He wanted Jane first bc she was the prettiest, and only chased Lizzie when he couldn't get Jane. Mary would've been way down his list bc he was silly enough to think he was attractive to better looking women. Sad but true 😅
I think that Mary and Mr Collins were similar enough to be a good match on paper. Both religious, proper and boring. But I don't think Mary would've trived at Hunsford, with all the duties of a wife of a religious leader, household economy and "managing" Lady Catherine. She never struck me as a pragmatic or involved. During the fall-out of Lydia's elopment, did she step in to aid Jane? No, she still studied so much that Jane didn't want to bother her during breaks. Down to earth Charlotte was a much better much counterbalance for Mr Collins' fanciful streak. She took on the mental labour of that relationship as well as household and parishioners, so Mr Collins can focus on his sermons, his reading and being a court jester at Rosings Park. An unfair load on Charlotte by any standards, but a great match for Mr Collins.
First of all - welcome back! I have missed your videos and look forward to listening to the one on JA's use of wit. This was a fascinating read of Mary Bennett. Other than the two lead sisters, she is by far the most interesting (arguable more interesting in fact than Jane). There is some real complexity there - her over-inflated view of her musical abilities, for example. But I am glad she didn't land Mr Collins. His patron Lady Catherine would not have liked her one bit - the terrible singing and her insistence on doing it at every available opportunity would have seen to that, along with her lack of humility. And of course Mr Collins would never have defended his wife against his "noble patroness" so a source of endless strife in that scenario. Although one would have liked to see Charlotte marry for love, she was a far better match for him given that she new exactly what she was getting and was happy with that.
Yes! I've always thought this was a rather sad little subplot, the way those two didn't get together even though they're perfect for each other, and she obviously liked him, which no one else did. Poor Mary. She's going to end up a spinster who lives permanently with one of her sisters. And poor Charlotte Lucas too of course married to that insufferable man.
According to James Edward Austen-Leigh, Jane Austen's nephew, in his _Memoir of Jane Austen_ (1869), Mary Bennet settled for marrying a local attorney's clerk: "She [JA] would, if asked, tell us many little particulars about the subsequent career of some of her people. In this traditionary way we learned that ... Mary obtained nothing higher than one of her uncle Philip’s clerks [Mr Philips is Meryton's attorney], and was content to be considered a star in the society of Meryton".
The 1995 mini series basically said what we all know- Mr Collins is still a man, silly as he is. So he started with the prettiest daughter and worked his way through. Despite all his fancy words, he always wanted the pretty girl.
Fun fact; Marsha Hunt who played Mary Bennet in the 1940 movie version (staring Greer Garson and Lawrence Olivier) died only last year at the age of 104. It makes me think that since Pride and Prejudice was published in 1813, about a little more that 200 years ago, it is like it was only really 2 lifetimes ago.
I think Mary adds that little bit of detail that is in the back of our minds as we read about Mr. Collins. Here, Mr. Collins is automatically attaching his interest to the older sisters, regardless of whether they are well suited to each other. Elizabeth and Jane are "out of his league", yet he relentlessly sets his sights on them. Marriage with Lizzie would be a disaster for them both, and Mary would be best suited to him based on personality, yet Collins pursues looks over character. This small part of the text beautifully illustrates the shallowness and lack of self awareness of Mr. Collins, and the loneliness of the overlooked Mary. The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hadlow fleshes Mary's story out in such a rich way that beautifully dovetails with the P&P text. Wonderful lecture, Dr. Cox!
I really like your observation about Mary's hopes and plans for marrying Mr Collins. There's a sense in some novels and in some narrative styles that other characters stand still until they're observed by the narrater. While the short, but well constucted little section about Mary, really shows that other characters in Austen's novels are thinking and planning and feeling apart from the main character
I actually like to think Austen, had she lived today, certainly, would have written a series where more of the characters would have gotten a book. Mary's isn't the only story without a conclusion.
Kitty, according to Jane Austin‘s nephew who wrote a biography of his aunt, “Kitty Bennet was satisfactorily married to a clergyman near Pemberley,” Jane Austen used to discuss her characters with her relatives and so it was well known in the family as to what the future held for them. This was true for the books that had already been published. And as pride and prejudice is my absolute favourite it’s lovely to know what Austen had in mind.
I agree. Mary Bennett was a character I felt a little sorry for. She definitely has her flaws, but she tries really hard to overcome her ‘disadvantages’ in terms of looks and wit/personality with learning. I guess I kind of feel I can empathise with trying really hard at things and the result being too ‘pedantic’ and not really good at it, while other people seem naturally gifted. 😅
@@ninaklein8154 I loved that book. It delves into Mary's character and you end up routing for her by the end of part one. I loved the way the two books were intertwined ( part 1)
At 12:59 - With Virginia Woolf's observation that "characters can move hither and thither, whether or not the author watches them" is a perfect set-up for fan fiction: taking the perspective of a character who isn't the main focus of the novel, for example.
I am watching in silent mode (because of a sleeping baby) and your video is the first here on RUclips that is - so far - perfectly legible with automatic subtitles - bravo to your clear articulation!
I absolutely loved the different ending that was in the Lawrence Olivier version, where she is perfectly paired off with someone better than Mr. Collins. I think just because she would have married him to save the family, it doesn't mean she would have chosen him under other circumstances. Thank you for this video!
I have a perverse fondness for the 1940s P&P: it was my earliest exposure to Austen, and it still remains my favorite adaptation, though I know it's actually based on a stage play of the novel, and we're getting the story third-hand. But Marsha Hunt's Mary is very sweet and charmingly goofy here: one of the many little details between the actors has Greer Garson's Lizzie leaning over to take a look at Mary's new book from the bookstore and smiling about it. Hunt, in real life, had a nice singing voice, and she knows how to direct Mary's attempts so that they come off sincere and off. The last moment with her, when she hits the note and smiles in amazement and appreciation, is a favorite one of mine.
@@sybillestahl8646 From an extremely personal point of view: The 1940s version is the only one that makes me smile and laugh and feel on the side of the characters. Melville Cooper, complete with that funny little musical motif, captures Mr. Collins in a way that, for me, no one else does. Greer Garson is old for the part, but understands Lizzie's wry, dry charm, and I like her scenes with Olivier. The actors feel like a family: they live and know that house; they know and relate to each other with little throw-away glances, nods and gestures that make me feel like these are truly sisters. There is no Bennet parental unit like Mary Boland and Edmund Gwenn: that first scene of theirs together is, for me, perfection. For me, while the other versions may be much, much more accurate, I don't, for the most part, enjoy them: for me, they generally lack in spirit, somehow, or they're trying too hard, or they want to make some kind of point that is best left to come naturally. I do not "get along" with Colin Firth's Darcy - in fact, thanks to this production, I ended up not feeling much for Firth at all until "The King's Speech", and for me, there's a general sense of drag through many of the episodes. I'm not a fan of the "messiness" I get from the Keira Knightley version. Very subjective, and I did say my enjoyment of the 1940 version is perverse....
First of all - great to have you back! Can we look forward to further videos analysing characters? A slight digression: there is a character in "Jane Eyre" whose function in that novel might have been analogous to Mary Bennet's in P&P - Helen Burns. Unfortunately, she is bumped off far too quickly - had she survived and Helen's and the heroine's friendship developed, just possibly the former would have learned to stand up for herself a little more and (more importantly) the latter might have learned to be a little more self-critical and so be less insufferable. But Mary: the word "companion" is relevant here. Yes, yes, I get that she is being cautious, but really, with the possible exception of Edmund Bertram and Mary Crawford, could we imagine any two characters in JA's works for whom marriage would not have been a greater unforeseen (though foreseeable to the reader) disaster than Mary Bennet and Mr Collins? (And with Edmund and Mary C. I think each would have realised that the mistake was their own.) Both Mr Collins and Mary are rather dim and both think a great deal too much of themselves; Mary is a better pianist (technically) than Lizzy, but she "has neither genius nor taste", her playing is "pedantic" and "mannered"*, and thus is less pleasing than Lizzy's (who stays within her own competence). Mary's voice is "weak" (much too weak for Netherfield Hall) but she assumes that the polite applause that she receives is a demand for an encore (NB I don't think that "weak" is a synonym for "out of tune to the point where she is tone deaf"). She repeats tired old nostrums and assumes that they are original thoughts. Mr Bennet's negligence (particularly in the educational sphere) as a parent is at least as malign toward Mary as it is toward Lydia, though in a very different ways. I feel rather sorry for Mary. *After 60 years of concert-, recital-, and opera-going, I think that I know what JA meant!
Jane Eyre is a mystery novel. We are not getting the rich inner lives of the passengers of Poirot's Orient Express for the same reason we aren't getting Mrs Fairfax's. Not because they don't have any but because their rich inner lives spoil the plot twist. Genre and its necessary limitations is a weird thing to criticize JE for.
@@magdn1 Criticising "Jane Eyre"? You underestimate my arrogance - I was suggesting a way in which Charlotte Bronte could have improved her novel and made the eponymous heroine more likable!!!
Enjoyed this comment very much. We all feel a little sorry for Mary Bennet, because she is so overlooked by all her family, including by Jane and Elizabeth. But there's no denying she's not really very likeable - too conceited and sententious, as you say. And while we might like to think she could improve, that's not Jane Austen's way. Even Emma Woodhouse doesn't really "improve", so much as open her eyes. She's still going to be bossy and meddling, just not quite so disastrously.
I hope you are doing well with your other endeavors, as you have been missed. Thank you for this topic. I dont think that Mary and Mr. Collins would have faired too well. They were too much alike with their unhealthy egos. And just by Mary thinking how she could change him is a red flag for me. Whereas, Charlotte knew how he was and accepted him. However, its hard to know how that all turned out either. Sometimes with an example of how to be happy, smarter and less arrogant, he might just change his behavior. No telling. Maybe, you could look into some of the scenarios of the characters lives after the book that Jane Austin herself talked about in how they faired. That would be fun. Thank you for your explanation regarding the writing itself to help us understand the thoughts and who they actually came from. You've helped me understand this book so much more.because in this day and age, it's a bit much to grasp it all with Jane's genius writing. ❤🥰❤
He wasn't going to change with Lady Catherine as an example. II think Mary would have complied with Fordyce's advice, being as prudent as she was, and obeyed her husband. She would have reveled in being given the role of clergyman's wife (think a regency era version of Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons)
When you emphasized "solidity of reflections" I was reminded of my nearest superior at work. She has a specific favourite phrase she uses as a compliment of other people. I think this one is Mary's favourite compliment of anyone, including herself.
I’ve always thought that Mary illustrates the predicament of a woman who hasn’t got the advantages of money/class/beauty or great charm in making a marriage (she would have to compromise) and tries to set herself as an intellectual in order to carve out a space and a value for herself. Of course she is not a great intellect, but I understand her need to present/think of herself as such. It’s a form of self preservation for the ego.
I'm playing Charlotte in a production of "Pride and Prejudice" right now and we were ruminating on this exact question. I'm definitely going to send them this video! Considering how quickly Mr. Collins leapt from Jane to Lizzy, it's not unreasonable for *both* Mrs. Bennet and Mary to assume that he would begin courting Mary next. I think the language at the end of the paragraph you cite, "every hope of that kind," might be referring to Mary's and Mrs. Bennet's hopes. Had there been no Charlotte, Mr. Collins could very well have just moved right along to the third sister, but Charlotte saw her chance and grabbed it.
Agreed! Think the phrasing is referring to mother and daughter's hopes. Which I guess just adds to Mrs B's frustration & chagrin when she hears Charlotte has bagged Mr Collins! And even though we are strongly encouraged by the text to laugh at her, I do think Mrs Bennett has her daughter's best interests at heart here? Knowing she must marry for financial survival, and being aware there is a confluence of character & interests between her and Collins. (Whether they'd bring out the best in each other or encourage each other into folly isn't something she seems too concerned about in any of her children's matches!)
Glad to see you back! There is a video by Ellie Dashwood entitled "What is Mary Bennet's Purpose in Life?" Where she discusses why she believes Mary is essential, I'd be interested to know if you agree. I've always noticed the way Mary is treated by her family, particularly her parents. While Mr. Bennet respects Jane and Lizzie's intelligence he scoffs at Mary's attempt to be intelligent and doesn't seem to be interested in guiding her. Mrs. Bennet also puts Mary down for reading too much. Lizzie told Lady Catherine that those who wanted to learn were encouraged but I don't get that impression, at least not where Mary is concerned, but maybe I'm missing something.
Now they are out in society, I think Mary is scoffed at for reading too much because her mother is worried no man will want to marry her- Mrs Bennett was picked for her looks not her brains and comes from the middle class. While her father recognises that booksmarts are not what makes intelligence. He already has his wife bossing him around and he much prefers Lizzie and Jane's wit. Mary looks like she's trying to be smart and thinks she's smart but can't see beyond black and white. Elizabeth reads a lot but she reads more widely and so she is an interesting person.
Thanks @junipercats for flagging that vid - was on my mind too! 😊 I feel like the reason Mr Bennet doesn't encourage Mary's intelligence is her lack of a sense of humour? He only seems to like Lizzy's sharp wit because it amuses him, really. Mary's pomposity & lack of self-awareness annoys him, and so he mocks her, rather than encouraging her to turn her moralizing awareness inwards. I don't think even Austen herself seems to argue for Mr Bennet being a good parent, alas! 😒
I agree with both of you, Mr. Bennet prefers Lizzie for her sharp wit and Jane for her good sense both of which are enhanced by natural intelligence. Mary is intelligent but lacks both sense and wit. She may have read more than her elder sisters and read more books that were instructive and it may be that she has learned more but without good sense she misapplies what she has learned and without real wit takes it too seriously. Add to that her vanity at having out-read her sisters and thinking she understands better than they do, and it's no wonder Mr. Bennet thinks her a very silly person.
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Yeah, Mr. Bennet is usually portrayed as the nicer parent in screen adaptations, but he's really not a good father. He plays favourites, he's judgemental, and he consistently puts his own comfort over ensuring that his daughters have a good future.
@@junipercats2472 I think you make a good point. Mary's reading and accomplishments are performative. She has a lot of information, but not the natural intelligence, understanding, or sense to put it together. It is as if she were copying her older sisters and her father, but is incapable of putting assembling it into a reasonable whole. She seems puzzled/oblivious by her father's and sisters' response to her trying to be just like them. I suspect that Mr. Bennet was a very involved parent to Jane and Lizzie, but quit by the time it came to Mary's education (which would about the time he realized that there was not going to be a son). It must have been very sad for Mary to watch her father so engaged with her older sisters, but not her.
@@DrOctaviaCox LOL. And I always assumed Mary would have married Mr Collins in a heartbeat. I think she saw herself as soooooo morally superior that she was a natural to be a preacher’s wife. Alas he may not have lived up to her standards nor she his in the end.
Good to have you back :) I have always loved the way Mary Bennett's pretensions to intellect are contrasted with Lizzy & Darcy's natural cleverness. They don't shout about their intellectual prowess either.
@@akapam57 Both have what one would call wit. They see and think abstractly and beyond the literal- hence why their dialogue is so good. While Mr Collins may gush over Rosings, Lizzie sees it for what it is- ostentatious and Darcy sees his aunt's pretend airs and graces as vulgar snobbery. Even her father says Lizzie has more wit than most women- women were generally considered to think emotionally while men where meant to think more analytically. They are just governed by their emotions and immediate assumptions until later on and that crowds and that obscures their thinking- hence Pride and Prejudice. Jane was always an advocate for more rational rather than emotional thinking, while not completely rejecting the heart- see Sense and Sensibility.
So glad to see you back with another video! I would be curious to hear you analyse why Elizabeth is so reluctant to go along with her mother's schemes to give Mr. Bingley a chance to propose to Jane when he returns to Netherfield at the end of the novel.
Great question! I've often read that section with a bit of a quizzical brow. It could be a morality thing (Regency courting couples were supposed to be very closely supervised), or that she found her mother's too-obvious manoevrings embarrassing &/or feared they might put Bingley off again? However, I almost feel like it's Elizabeth testing Bingley's resolve & perhaps even holding a wee grudge for his previous inconstancy towards Jane? Like, "If he REALLY cares and has grown a spine, he'll make his own opportunities... If he doesn't, then he's still not good enough for my fave sister!" 😂
Thank you for this illuminating video. Wonderful insights into Mary’s pride! It does seem as though someone who is forever moralizing would have to believe themselves to be superior in understanding. She would have found a “project” in Mr. Collins that would suit her. I wonder how much he would have liked her attempts at instructing him? Somehow I think he’d find her just as irritating as the rest of her family does. I don’t think Mary possesses Charlotte’s subtlety.
Given Mr Collins' stated high opinion of himself, one does wonder! 😆 Despite (or rather because of) their similar characters I think they would probably have brought out the worst in each other. But I can't help feeling the theoretical resulting relationship would've been one the perpetually snarky JA would have had a really good time skewering on the page! 😏
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 your answer made me laugh out loud , I think you are spot on. I felt a touch of Mr . and Mrs. Pugh in Under Milk Wood where in a silence in a terse exchange Dylan Thomas says " An Icicle formed in the air". Thankyou for making a grumpy old man laugh.
I do so miss your regular videos, especially about Jane Austen books. I don't have any particular question or idea for you to talk about. In fact, you did videos on things that would never occur to me, opening up new ways to look at her works. I've had to reread every book with my new knowledge!
I read that Hilary Mantel started on a novel told from Mary Bennet’s point of view. Sadly, the author has died before finishing it. I’d have loved to read it.
There’s Jennifer Paynter’s 2014 The Forgotten Sister: Mary Bennet’s Pride and Prejudice, which narrates the events of Austen’s novel from Mary’s point of view. There’s also Pamela Mingle’s The Pursuit of Mary Bennet: A Pride and Prejudice Novel, which offers Mary an alternate romantic subplot. And A Match For Mary Bennet, which does the same.
I've always thought Mary exists as a mirror of Collins: respectable and pious but vain and silly. The fact that Collins ends up with Lizzie's eminently sensible bestie instead is a terrific plot twist 😊
I find it interesting/amusing that Austen's readers are so quick to feel for Mary and to want to insert these charitable interpretations of her character and then Fanny Price of Mansfield Park is referred to as "insipid". We are given all the insights and reasons to feel for Fanny but reject them yet invent all these reasons to love and forgive Mary. A lot of Austen fans, myself included, tend to be wallflower sorts of people and tend to project ourselves onto these side characters. I am not certain Austen ever intended us to be so charitable to Mary and it makes me pause and wonder at my own pretences of intelligence or personality. One of my favourite lines of the whole novel is "Mary wished to say something very sensible, but knew not how". It's entertaining to know even 200 years ago that girls were still clinging to "at least I have a good personality". She knew she didn't have the looks so wanted to be known for her accomplishments. I do pity her that it seems she didn't even have that--I can certainly identify with that too! But I don't want to be a Mary. She does seem to be the sort of silly that would not take advantage of her two well-married sisters to get a good match of her own and end up with a local lawyer's clerk. She probably could have met some decent men visiting her sisters, including whoever Bingley or Darcy would have hired for their own parishes. Her other Uncle Gardiner would have known rich businessmen she could have connected with too. Perhaps she saw such manoeuvrings as 'beneath' her or as immoral. Fanny Price is my absolute favourite of the heroines though. I will always defend her as I identify with her more than any of the other heroines.
You make some very interesting points! It definitely makes me wonder where the author's own sympathies truly lay? Austen seems to put quite a lot of effort into these glimpses of the interiority of even her more unlikeable characters. In fact, even the villains of the piece often have their motivations & feelings laid out in fair detail, albeit usually after the twist in the tale has happened! I feel like that insight does lure the reader into empathizing with them more, perhaps unconsciously, as it puts us "in their shoes" for a bit...? One character whose consistently unsympathetic treatment by Austen does surprise me a bit is Mrs Bennet! My memory may be faulty, but I don't recall any instances where we're invited to sympathise with her in this way, & her emotional excesses are very harshly criticized... and yet if we understand her family's economic situation, her panic about getting her daughters married seems WAY more sensible than Mr Bennet's laissez-faire approach! And his constantly mocking her rather than trying to kindly broaden her perspective can start to seem very cruel & counterproductive. Elizabeth clearly far prefers her father, & we're invited to do likewise due to being in her viewpoint, but the more I reread the book, the more my sympathies shift away from him and the more sorry I feel for her mother... however hard she makes that by her own behaviour! 😂
I think the big difference between the two is that one is a side character and one is the heroine. And for modern audiences, it's okay for a side character to be a wet blanket but the heroine needs to be a sparkling personality.
Mary and Lydia contrast each other like night and day. The differences between the two sisters are profound. On one hand Lydia is flirtatious and puts herself in front of men, whereas Mary is much more reserve and acts upon decorum. I believe each sister creates their own special identity within themselves to be unique from one another.
I've felt like Mary turned to her studies as a way to distinguish herself from her sisters. Jane was the most beautiful, Lizzie the wit, and Kitty and Lydia in cahoots... since she didn't have a sufficiency of education, she grew pedantic. She knew she couldn't dream of a brilliant match, and her prospects were probably dimmest out of all her sisters since she was the least agreeable. Mr Collins was probably her best chance for a life independent of her family. I think she wasn't quite realistic in her ability to manage him and the marriage would have been less agreeable than she supposed. He would have always been bringing up the deficiencies of her family as well.
As with many other characters, in all her novels, Jane Austen constantly reminds us of how self-involved we are, how unaware of other people. Being “the only plain one” in the family, Mary works hard on establishing herself as a somebody, so that she is not lost amidst her beautiful and sexy sisters. It’s the human spirit at work, rising to the occasion, no matter how silly it may seem or actually be. No matter - Jane Austen is both a tireless observer and a champion of the human spirit, especially in women. That’s part of her genius and appeal.
I have not visited this channel for some time. That’s my loss - as Dr. Cox’s takes are wonderful & subtle. You can imagine Jane Austen chuckling to herself as she wrote lines for Mary Bennett (in the same way that you can imagine Ishiguro silently laughing sometimes he recounted some of the most farcical predicaments (& musings) of Stevens in remains of the Day.)
I'd like to punt out how far you've come. In your first videos it always took you a while to shake off your nerves and now you speak so smoothly. And it's such a pleasure to listen to you (especially since my first language is not English). I was hoping you'd put out a new video soon and I am sooo enjoying this one. Thank you and enjoy your free weekend :)
As Jane Eyre is written from the first person point of view, it is to be expected that the other characters would appear only as they are perceived by the narrator. On the other hand, the shifting point of view in Jane Austen’s novels allows us to take a peek at the inner lives of minor characters.
In every version of P&P (including BBC 1980) Mary is shown to be partial to Mr Collins. Mr Collins is going for beauty, and never notices Mary. In the 1995 version, Jane drives Mr Collins to Mary to discuss Fordyce's sermons... to no avail. He was very lucky to end up with Charlotte Lucas.
I love how the actress in Kiera Knightly's Pride and Prejudice also nods at this but very subtly. It's something that took a couple of watches to notice and I feel like it's the same in the books, in that it took a few reads to pick it up for me. Loving your videos
Masterful analysis as usual Dr Cox. Brava! I remember noting Mary's vanity when first reading P&P as a schoolboy and thinking "she's obviously got tickets on herself". However I don't recall considering the possibility of a romantic/marital connection between her and Mr Collins. I expect that most schoolboys wouldn't. I rather naively thought that any "companionship" would revolve around their analysing Fordyce's Sermons together.
I simply love your analyses. I've read Pride and Prejudice probably 5 times in the past several years and never really noticed that passage before. And I definitely did not notice the parallel passage of Mary's reflections in the early chapter vs her impression of his reflections here. It's amazing how much can be picked from these seemingly spartan sentences that is so (now) obviously intentional.
For the clerk, marrying Mary would be the equivalent of marrying the boss's daughter. He would take over the business and she would inherit the Phillips' money. Also, the connections to rich men with, especially in Darcy's case, the possibility of legal work to be done, would make Mary much more desirable a match than when she was just one of the Bennet's five daughters!
It's really interesting to see that JA's characters lived on in her own head too, and not just those of her readers! An amusing contrast to some other authors (cf Conan Doyle) who just wanted to kill off their characters by the end, regardless of how well-received they'd been by the public...
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Comparing Austen and Doyle is not really apples-to-apples. Doyle was a competent writer, but the Holmes stories are all that's read now out of a large body of work. Austen is only now being recognized as one who influenced the development of the novel even more than Defoe, Richardson, and Fielding, who were the ones traditionally taught as the fathers of the novel. Austen might be called the mother of the novel, as she took the rough and flawed form they began and shaped it into the grown-up novel it has been since her time.
This is why I love the 2005 movie so much. The directing of the side characters and background actors conveyed the exact same effect that Jane Austen achieved in her books. Every time I rewatch it I pick up on a new detail in the background, the way a character looks at another, or two characters whispering to each other, or just their body language. It really fleshes out the world of P&P and adds depth to the other characters
I thought the Mary character helped to illustrate something about the morality of the time that Austen was interested in illustrating. Mary was, on the surface, everything that the morality of the day pushed forward as virtuous, and yet she was prideful about that and was lacking in the kind of self-awareness that would allow her to be more interesting or vital like her sisters. She was essential to helping Austen's readers notice the vitality and likability that even the reckless younger sisters had. By contrast, Fanny Price in Mansfield Park fit all of the popular notions of virtue, was not prideful, was pretty boring/insipid, and yet retained a kind of likability by digging in her heels at the idea of obeying the status-based social expectation instead of her inner conscience. In that case, I think Austen wanted to illustrate the difference between those 2 kinds of social "virtue" on the backdrop of a character that was perfectly virtuous by the standards of the time.
Good point! And it really makes me wonder how the various sisters were received by readers of the time, as opposed to us with our modern sensibities! For example, we see Lizzy's athleticism & lack of pretension as admirable, but I wonder if many of the contemporary authors would've censured some of her behaviour...? How iconoclastic was Austen in making her the main heroine?
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 I don't know historically, but I get hints from the text -- how Lizzy is described as "positively wild" for walking several miles in the mud. Even though Darcy likes her by then, he has to admit that he wouldn't want his sister to behave like that. And the reaction to her various refusals of marriage offers shows a lot. Her mother is outraged about Mr. Collins and very vocal about that, without any allowance for Lizzy's feelings about spending her life with a man like that. Lizzy mentions in her refusal of Darcy that the convention is that she is obligated to accept him just by virtue of his status. With Fanny Price, you see even more of the judgments of being "headstrong" or "disobliging." Must have been a nightmare to navigate life as a woman back then.
I think that Jane Austen often uses the device of providing two extremes to bring us to the middle.She does this with many heroes and heroines. Marianne, Elinor, and Lucy in S&S, for example. Lydia is the narcissistic, self-centered, careless, immoral and uncaring extreme; Mary is the moralistic, humorless, and untalented opposite other extreme. Between these two reside Lizzie who comes off as perfectly balanced and wonderful.
I don't think that Fanny Price is a good example of a likeable heroine at all. She is deeply boring, insipid and I think prideful in her humility too, though she's certainly a little bit smarter and more socially aware than poor old Mary Bennet. Anne Elliot is a much better example of a truely virtuous (by the standards of the day) heroine, who is introverted, bookish and conventional, but likeable. And I think the reason why Anne is so sympathetic while Fanny Price is so irritating and unsympathetic is the rigid, moralizing, envious, poe faced nature of Fanny's inner monologue as opposed to Anne's wise, thoughtful, much more appealing inner monologue.
When Mr. Collins first appeared upon the scene I immediately thought how perfect he would be for Mary since she was much more conservative than Lydia and Kitty and more bookish than Elizabeth and Jane. I thought the actor in the TV series perfectly captured in a single look Mr. Collin's reasons for not considering her. Such a pity things didn't work out as they would have been a hoot of a couple.
It's *always* a pleasure to hear your analyses, especially of Austen (& you're so right about the 'world' she creates -- it has been many years since I read those novels but I can 'see' all her characters, including their character & behavior, whenever I think about them -- she created the world/s but I live in them too!) I hope all is going well with your coursework -- you are certainly missed in terms of your regular posts but we all appreciate that you are sharing your considerable talents with a paying audience :)
6:20 Hmm! My reading of the "every hope" phrasing is slightly different - I believe Austen is referring to the hopes of Mary AND of Mrs Bennett here, as both of them had aspirations for Mr Collins to marry her? Rather than multiple hopes of Mary's own. (Though I do believe Dr Cox is right in her reading of her previous lines, indicating Mary had been contemplating the possibility for some time). Really liked how it was played in the 1995 series, indeed subtle but touching. In terms of whether Mary would've been a better choice for Mr C. than Charlotte... My opinion would be yes? She actually saw something positive in him other than his providing marital security (even if with some intellectual arrogance!) and they also had shared interests, as indicated by this paragraph. Whereas Charlotte only married him to avoid being left single (didn't even need it for financial survival, like Mary did) and essentially shared no convictions or interests with him, apart perhaps from agreeing that toadying to Lady Catherine would get them ahead socially.... 🙄
As an aside, your hair looks great! I'm so grateful to see a new video. As a recovering English Literature major working as a nurse, this part of my brain loves the exercise you provide for it!!
Congratulations. I’ve been a doctor for 25 years and wish I could do the same. I found you after searching for a video on the cruise from Florida to NYC, Charleston. It was so, so helpful and fun. You have a fantastic personality and I've been a subscriber ever since. If you do on-line Spanish GCSE tuition, I'd be v v interested for my son. You must have been an amazing teacher but after 25y, you deserve to make the move. Congratulations and I wish you all the best. ❤
I had only read Pride & Prejudice one time before I watched the 1995 BBC version, the best version. I didn’t pick up on Mary’s fondness for Mr. Collins in the book, but it was unmistakable in the series. Kudos to the actress who played her 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Although it would have been nice for Mary and Mr. Collins to wed, we wouldn’t have gotten the perspective of the social condition (a.k.a. desperation) of a Regency era woman in her mid to late 20s being unmarried and her justification for lowering her standard like we did from Charlotte Lucas. 😏 What’s love got to do with it….? Indeed Charlotte, indeed.
Looking forward to this. 1980 mini series to me is the best Mary. Well the best P&P ever. Just my opinion. I always wondered why Jane never got these two together in her book. But then I think charlotte was probably better able to handle Mr Collins. I can never make up my mind 😬
I think it heightens the jeopardy, if Mary is going to get Longbourne then the family is safe much earlier in the novel. I think it would be a great irony if, after Lizzie spends much of the book basically ignoring her 'wisdom' Mary suddenly won the Longbourne jackpot, but it would also reward her character when she is supposed to be as wrong as Lydia, just the opposite extreme.
@@hannahreynolds7611 oh so nice to hear others appreciating this wonderful miniseries. Elizabeth Garvey will always be my Elizabeth Bennett. She was just as I imagined her in the book come to life. I do prefer all the older adaptions. Especially 1983 Mansfield Park. Clunky sets and all. I had a big crush on David Rintoul. He did a brilliant TV series Doctor Finlay, I keep hoping to get the DVDs.
I was also going to comment on Tessa Peake Jones’s portrayal of Mary Bennet. I think she does the very best at capturing Mary’s inner pride (as another illustration of it, perhaps, on Austen’s part) and of her continual efforts to be “philosophical” and “intellectual” while only providing “profound insights into the obvious.”
@@sylvain123 I heard that David Rintoul was a good actor - but he was terrible as Darcy, I suspect it was directions. Unfortunately (I would like to like him on second viewieng, but no). Sure there were societal restraints (even in the 1995 miniseries Lizzy and Fitzwilliam do not kiss when they finally get engaged). But Rintoul played him extremely stiff. The man was supposed to be madly in love after all.
I love all your videos, glad to see one up again, it seems like it's been a while. I want to offer a point of view that disagrees with one of your statements, that Mary's observation is not necessary, not even in the scene in which it takes place. I think it's actually very revealing. Firstly, because Mr. Collins has been described until now as a very disagreeable man (mostly from Lizzy's perspective, and to some degree Jane's) and with both humorous and tense scenes having just taken place. Mr. Collins is described as less than sufficient if he were the last man, etc. Yet... he is not wrong about his desirable status in life. Charlotte accepts him for it, and she lightly berates Lizzy for doubting whether anyone be secured by him at all. The revelation from Mary's perspective is _incredibly_ valuable in heightening Mr. Collins' status in life, and by extension in allowing the reader to attribute more pride to Lizzy's character. Mr. Collins was not good enough for Lizzy. But because there's not one but _two_ women who thought very realistically about securing him, both their sentiments are brought forward as more real and valid, more part of the world of the book. If Mary already thought this, we can understand Charlotte better too. It means we can allow ourselves to doubt (if we don't know the entire story) whether Lizzy made the right choice after all. And to some degree it adds credence to the scenes where Mrs. Bennett is so horrendously upset.
I very much enjoy your videos - thank you for broadening my appreciation for Jane Austen as a writer. Sometime I hope you might consider a video about Mrs. Smith from Persuasion. I find her to be a very interesting person in her own right, living as a disabled person (yet still a lady) at that time.
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Charlotte "met him by accident" in the lane and quickly snapped him up - lol. There was no moss growing on Charlotte Lucas.
I wish I could ❤ I might do these eventually with some of my homeschooled kids.
Oh wow! I am SERIOUSLY considering this as a summer gift to myself! But for now, I can't get over the fact that British people spell enroll with one L! What?!? 🤯
Good to see you back!
I'd think about taking the Jane Austen course, but I'm such a slow reader (I misread stuff all the time and have to read it again) - not sure I'd keep up. I might be the only bloke too.
Mary Bennet had the same thoughts as Charlotte Lucas, they knows that Mr Collins is manageable, and they can make of hin what they want to do with that, but Charlotte is more awake and more experienced in the matter. Is nice to have You Back!!
I love how the inclusion of Mary in the family really drives home what a fraud Mr Collins is- if he was really as sober and pious and thoughtful as he presents himself, he would have naturally chosen Mary, who was perfect for him in her temperament and actually possessed the traits he attempted to project onto Lizzie… but that’s not what he does. He goes for the prettiest sisters in order and doesn’t actually look deeply into who they are as people.
Mary would have LOVED to listen to him reading moral treatise every evening.😅
I think it would have made him look less good, if he was known to have gone for the younger one over the older one, even today people look down on men who choose the younger woman, but absolutely, he doesn't really know what he is doing, his virtue is performative. Good people read sermons so he reads sermons, etc.
@kahkah1986 that's an interesting perspective. It's making me look at the story differently. It never occurred to me, about the age difference. I suppose that may be another reason Mr. Collins wouldn't consider Mary - she's not pretty or witty enough to get his attention and he doesn't seem to seriously consider the younger girls; maybe bc without intriguing qualities (to him) he doesn't even "see" them due to young age? Austen makes a strong reference to Charlotte's age. The only Austen story where I personally noticed age difference was Emma. You're right about culture- even now, that's not seen as widely "acceptable", so might not be in line w Mr. Collins ideas for his reputation.
And moralising herself. I always thought they would have been well suited. They’d sort of echo chamber each other’s ego of accomplishment and propriety. They’d likely be insufferable to everyone around them, but at least one of the Bennett girls could have retained Longbourn and Mary probably would have been happier in the relationship than Charlotte.
I agree that Mr Collins is attracted by looks over any other characteristic, but, to be fair to him, he would also consider it right to proceed in order of age. Lydia makes much of being married before any of her sisters, but it was generally considered preferable for older sisters to be married before younger ones. Remember how shocked Lady Catherine is when she learns that the younger sisters are all "out" before the older ones are married!
Well why SHOULDN’T he go for the prettiest sisters? What man wouldn’t? He was only 25 after all.
Honestly, while Mary may have been attracted to him as a like-minded person, Charlotte is the more functional match. There's no indication of Mary's skill level in household economy, we're told explicitly that she can't cook, and she's not socially perceptive in the networking/politicking way that might help Mr. Collins to rise in the church. I think the theoretical Mary Collins would struggle to maintain her high-minded philosophizing in a life with suddenly increased practical demands.
I think sucking up to Lady Catherine would have galled. They were an obvious match by the obvious standards, but I do not think they would have been a felicitous one (Charlotte had fewer options, and knew what she was signing up for- I'm glad for Mary and her semicanonical uncle's clerk).
@@voluntaryismistheanswer Yes! I also prefer Mary × Clerk, because it keeps her close to her existing social network.
@@voluntaryismistheanswer who is Mary’s semicanonical uncle’s clerk? What am I missing?
@@athag1 Austen told her nephew that Kitty married a Clergyman near Pemberley and Mary married one of her uncles clerks.
@@danielrobinson7350 Thanks! That’s cool! Do you know if it’s in one of her letters or is it something her nephew related in his memoir?
I played Mary Bennett many years ago, and the production I was in leaned heavily into middle child syndrome.
Mary is the most isolated of the sisters - everyone else has a built in buddy.
I ultimately saw her obsession with books as a desperate way to make some sort of connection with her father, because she has given up on even being seen by the rest of her family.
Also, every 18 year old intellectual ever is pretty insufferable for a few years.
It must have been very interesting to get into that role and play it out.
I've always perceived her as someone on the spectrum. She appears to fail to see some social cues and happy with her own company.
I have two siblings on each side. I connected with her character so much.
Sadly I can relate to Mary way too much.
That's me!❤
One thing to remember is that Mr. Collins was a young man himself, about 25 years of age. Most of the movies and series show him as much older. Mary thinking that she can help out her peer is much more reasonable than her thinking she can influence a 35-year-old, which is how he is usually portrayed.
Thank you Jenny! It frustrates me that Mr Collins is always portrayed by actors who are too old.
I think maybe it's done to make his character seem worse...? When reading the original text he's pretty obnoxious, for sure, but it does seem as if (like Lydia) his folly is at least partially contributed to by his youth and lack of experience?
Not sure if he would've improved with age, mind you, esp. with Lady C egging him on and no check to his idiocies from Charlotte who seems rather to try and just avoid him as much as possible!
His behaviour does seem sillier when you think of how young he is but I often think kindly of him - and that he means well and has no ill intent so Charlotte should feel good about that.
Most people are who they are going to be by 25. I dont count that as young. Even though I can give him 50 years.
I think the novel points out that he is old for his years, & that's why they age the character. OTOH, none of the actresses who play the sisters are in their teens, or 21/22....
Yes, oh yes she did.
I have to go back and read again. For the umpteenth time. Love Jane Austen
I think there's an interesting contrast between how Mary's feelings towards Mr Collins and Charlotte's. Mary is interested in moulding him into someone she would be happy with, Charlotte is focused on how to engineer her situation to make herself content with him as he is. I think Mr Collins' follies are not likely to be changed which untimately makes Charlotte a better match for him. She is able to be content without expecting him to change, whereas had Mary married him she would likely have ended up miserable when she discovered she could not force the improvements she wanted to make to his character.
Well said.
The gasp i let out when i saw the notification for this premiere
I hit the bell, and I never hit the bell 😄
Even before the explicit "invasion" of Mary's mind, her behavior has already given the reader the sense that Mary may be interested in Mr Collins. She is the only one of the Bennett sisters who willingly listens to him read and philosophize. (He doesn't seem to take the hint.) So Austen's peek behind the curtains of Mary's thoughts confirms what we have already come to suspect.
It was deeply hinted at in the 1995 series and 2005 movie that Mary clearly fancied Mr Collins. If Charlotte hadn't come to the house by chance that day, then he probably would have proposed to Mary, as she was the next sister after Lizzy.
Mind you, Lydia would have been deeply annoyed if her "plain" sister got married before her. XD
I have to partially disagree with you about Charlotte. After Lizzie rejected Mr.Collins, Charlotte hung around him a lot more/ invited his attention/ listened to him. She clearly let him know that she was available and agreeable to him, if he were to propose (just like what she encouraged Jane to do with Mr.Bingley). I don't think Mr.Collins ever really thought of Mary Bennet, as he didn't have time to do so. Jane was made unavailable, Elizabeth had all his attention for most of his stay, so much so that she suspected he wanted to propose to her before it even happened, and then once she refused him, Charlotte influenced him to consider her as his potential wife. I don't even think Mary was ever an option in Mr.Collins' mind.
I’m sure their father would have had amusement in Lydia’s disgruntlement.
@@JennyferPepin Good point. Being the middle child, poor Mary was probably ignored a lot.
@@kansmill Maybe, behind the scenes, he found the elopement amusing as well. XD
We know from Charlotte’s earlier conversation with Elizabeth on the subject of marriage that Charlotte understood the necessity of pretending to feel more than one did for a prospective partner. And she also would have noted Collins’ designs on Elizabeth and known full well that his suit would not be received well by her friend. She had already started making herself subtly agreeable to Collins before it even occurred to Mary that such a thing could be allowed.
Mary’s lack of social awareness was a severe handicap in her romantic hopes.
Although Mary's absence wouldn't have changed the plot, she does have a tiny tangential affect - her public performance at the dance, insisting on showing off what she thought of as her accomplishment, was the means for others of the Bennet family to act in a way that Darcy thought inappropriate, low class. He refers to it in 'The Letter'. It was one of the reasons that he advised Bingley to forget Jane, and something that Lizzie had dismissed and forgotten. On reading the letter, Lizzie realised her whole family acted such that they couldn't have made a better job of scuppering Jane's chances if it had been deliberately planned. Btw, great to see you back!
I certainly agree that Mary would have accepted Mr. Collins, but I doubt Mr. Collins would have redirected his attentions to Mary. He had so high an opinion of himself that despite proposing to Elizabeth, one of the two prettiest and brightest of the sisters, he still felt compelled to remind her that she would inherit little from her father-and that thus his attentions were particularly disinterested and Lizzie particularly fortunate to receive them. Charlotte, on the other hand, while plain, has a titled father whose significant estate and familiarity with appearances at Court, etc., would have appealed to Mr. Collins’ vanity and ambition.
I agree! Mr. Collins was very fond of himself. When Lady Catherine chose him, she inflated his ego to the stratosphere. During his proposal to Lizzie, he talked as though he was really quite a catch and felt sure she would marry him.
He thought himself much superior to dull, unattractive Mary, and I think he married Charlotte to spite the Bennets for Lizzie’s refusal as well as for his perceived superiority over Mary. He also wouldn’t want to take the chance that a third Bennet sister might reject him.
He was going to propose to Jane but when he saw another man courting her, he gave up and courted Lizzy. It's awful how little he thought of them as people.
Charlotte's family was NOT wealthy and the knighted father was not much of an asset, they were accepted in their circles, but were not outstanding. Charlotte saw that realistic, for her the proposal of Mr. Collins was good luck (the knighthood of her father meant nothing to potential suitors and it did not really give them a HIGH status. They were acceptable, but nothing more. Everyone knew that her father had been in trade before he got knighted, likely Mr. Collins saw himself higher in status even before he would inherit the Bennet property.
Her father gave up trade for the title and for becoming part of the gentry. (He could not be a gentleman and continute to be in trade). He was foolish to do so, the family would have been better off financially if he had not aspired for higher socials status. The family did not have a cook (the girls had to help in the kitchen), Mrs. Bennet was proud that she kept a much better table (so better food, and more dishes per meal to chose from).
The Lucas' girls most likely could not expect a decent dowry and Charlotte said that she is already a burden on her parents (being 29 or 27, I forgot the number, she mentions it when she tells Lizzy that she is engaged to Mr. Collins). They were not wealthy OR prestigious, they just could keep up ....
@@RKNancy No Mrs. Bennet - when Mr. Collins disclosed his intentions (which were honorable btw) - told him right away that Jane was as good as engaged (Mr. Bingley was still around, so she did not even lie) but as for Lizzy I do not know of any attachment. SHE greenlighted Lizzy for him. (And Mary knew of course that no one even CONSIDERED her, not her mother and not Mr. Collins).
My first impression of this set up and disappointed pay off was to cast shade on Mr. Collins character; that he would pursue the most beautiful available Bennett sister and not the one he was, in theory, most suited to. He cared more about beauty, charm and flattery than his air of values.
Indeed. Also it is extra painful to Mrs Bennet. Had Collins married Mary after Lizzy’s refusal, all would be well and Lizzy would be forgiven instantly. But with Lizzy’s best friend Charlotte snapping up Mr Collins, Lizzy ruined the family’s fortune in her mother’s eyes. 😅
@@elianwolfert3879 It always seemed to me consistent with the Bennets' general neglect of Mary. They don't really notice her until later, when all the other sisters have moved away. They don't even think about pointing Mr. Collins in her direction. Still, he's probably better off with Charlotte as she is so practical.
It is very easy to cast shade on Mr Collins' character! It truly is not very good.
Mr. Collins is clearly written as someone whose preference is easy to sway. He's the sort of person, had he proposed down the entire flock of the Bennet sisters, would have easily found ways to qualify why each of them was the loveliest in his eye, and certainly the best suited for him, in the required order, without ever as much as a suggestion of backbone. He's very dedicated to playing the part of a virtuous man, but lacks true principled virtues.
It should be noted that at the time, personal compatibility between prospective future spouses, while often considered an important thing to consider for a successful match, was thought of in very different terms to how we think of it today. We may think of how temperaments and personality types will play off each other, whether traits will cause tensions or mesh well together, how strong and weak points may overlap and aggravate or compensate, and so on. For the 1810s, being compatible was more of a smell test. Does it seem evident that profound misery is unavoidable should the two enter wedlock? No? They're passing compatible.
Another important point is that proposing in descending age order was thought as the proper thing to do. As long as Lizzie was eligible, it would have been an affront to her and her parents to bypass her as the eldest daughter. Women may not been able to inherit, but their birth order was still a precedence to be respected. Bypassing the Miss Bennett without as much as a token suggestion to propose, for her or her parents to turn down, would not just be rude but constitute a red flag. Who would flout such basic propriety to pursue a younger sister? A frivolous man of the worst sort, one concerned more with superficial charm and satisfying romantic fancies than making a functional match for running a household and a family. And Mr. Collins may be a superficial and coarse-witted buffoon, but he's not one to flout propriety.
It's funny that Mrs. Bennet thinks that Mary "might have been prevailed on to accept" Mr. Collins. It shows that despite her determination to get him as an son-in-law, even she knows that Mr. Collins is a bit of a hard sell.
Mrs. Bennet does not know her children very well nor does she care to know them either. If she had she would have pushed Mr. Collins in the direction of Mary to begin with. That she even thought Lizzie would accept him shows how delusional she really is. This whole ordeal is in the book to illustrate how selfish and self absorbed she really is.
I agree with your analysis about Mary Bennett. Even after the analysis you covered here, when the scandal of Lydia and Wickham was revealed to everyone, Mr. Collins has to come to the Bennett house and share his condemnation of the situation. His attitude of self- judgment as a relative, minister and connections with with Lady Catherine de Bourgh. As he leaves the Bennett house, Lizzy expresses her thoughts about Collins, which was a true assessment, but Mary states she felt his motives were pure and correct. Again, we see Mary's opinions of high morals and she's the one who doesn't hesitate to share them...just like Mr. Collins did.
For a minor character, Mary is well formed. We know she thinks she isn't as pretty as her sisters which has stimulated her desire for education, and unfortunately for performance as her talent does not reflect her hard work. We know that Lydia never listens to her. She has this desire I feel for affirmation and credit and Mr. Collins is weirdly similar to her on some points. They both express the pompous morality of the day that Mr. Bennett described with Mary as 'reading texts'. He too is a performer both in the pulpit and socially. He always needs to be noticed be it name dropping or otherwise. They both have a lack of awareness. Note his attitude to Lizzie Bennett's advice when he decided to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy. So Mary's tender hope that she would guide him is misguided and I am so pleased their engagement never happened.
So lovely to hear you again! When Elizabeth, after reading Darcy’s letter of explanation, is considering the justice of some of Darcy’s observations on her family and she admits to herself that even her beloved father is not without flaws, I think of Mary and how Mr. Bennett could have steered her mind and opened her heart. She seems genuinely pitiable to me; she may not have Elizabeth’s sparkling wit, but Mary does have an intellect that wishes to be employed. Mary always seemed redeemable.I hope she packed up, left home, got swept off to an archaeological dig, learned to drink and to swear (lightly), took up wearing pants, had a bunch of lovers, and died at an advanced age, very well pleased with her life.
Might you, Dr. Cox, sometime give us a talk on why Jane and Elizabeth turned out so differently than the other girls? It seems that Elizabeth benefitted from her father’s attention, but even then she has a kinder heart than time with her sardonic father is likely to have inculcated. Is it that Jane and Lizzie were the first two, that the prospect of a boy still seemed on the horizon when they were born and so their births were not as disappointing as that of three more non-males? Might Mrs. Bennett have been less flighty then? Is there any evidence in the text for my conjectures?
My theory is that they had different nurses (read foster-mother) who brought them up differently.
@@chrisd725 That's a pretty good theory!
The influence of the Gardeners might be a factor.
@@gowrinandana8999
I agree with your point. Jane and Elizabeth are said to have often been staying in town with the Gardiner's; if that began at a young age, say 9 or 10, the Gardiner's positive influence would certainly have helped shape Jane's & Elizabeth's characters. But did the 3 younger girls receive this benefit? It seems not, but we don't know. Were they ever asked? Were they interested in going? Did the births of the Gardiner's children affect these decisions? We can only speculate.
@@dawnkindnesscountsmost5991 Indeed, but your speculations are very astute.
Dr Cox is back!!!
Poor Mary. I think this little excerpt reveals something of her earnest desire for marriage and companionship. She is a romantic, just like the rest of the Bennetts! She is also the loneliest member of that family-and tries to puff herself up to compensate for the lack of love and respect. She’s a good foil to Charlotte, who likewise is not pretty, but has the confidence and awareness (and familial support) to better her situation.
That‘s exactly what I feel about Mary. Adding to the parallel between Charlotte and Mary, Mary is about 10 years younger (roundabout 18?!). This could also have been an important point for Mr Collins.
It is wonderful to see you back! Thank you for posting. I always love watching your videos.
Mary always struck me as a character who never feels adequate in the ways society tells her really matter: she isn't beautiful, she isn't vivacious or sparkling, she isn't fashionable, and she doesn't stand out. She has no support or friendships, not even in her own house.
It's a very lonely life, and she is very young. Without any direction, she tries to stand out through modesty, talent, hard work, and intellect. In a lot of ways, she's an early predecessor of the "not like other girls" trope. She is competing with her sisters on her own terms, but within the bounds of society.
I think it's important that she is trying to set herself up as more moral and more intelligent. She can't get her mother's love, not being a beauty, but she can compete for her father with Lizzy. Austen has a keen eye for the actions of neglected children. Mary's brittle pride and hubristic identity are spot on.
Addition: When I first read P&P, I got the impression that Mary was following all of the dictats of Fordyce and waiting for Mr. Collins to take notice of her as a proper candidate for his interest. Had he been more intelligent and less hypocritical, he might have. But it is probably lucky for the both of them that he didn't. It really would take someone like Charlotte Collins to see him as he is and act accordingly.
I love your analysis!
Superb insights... thank you so much for sharing.
I really feel for Mary in the piano scene where Mr Bennet tells her that she has delighted them enough! She is easily smart enough to know what he really means and of course the incident has an important influence on Mr Darcy's not very stellar opinion of the family.
@keithprice475 It is sad. Mary really seems to crave approval in spite of claiming modesty--she is human--and she is slighted and neglected by everyone the harder she tries to "improve".
Thank you for, once again, giving support to what I had subconsciously absorbed. I agree with another commenter that, although Mary would have liked to become Mrs. Collins, she would not have been as successful as Charlotte.
She has returned! 🎉
This analysis is absolutely lovely. Mary is a character often seen as a character foil or comic relief. It’s absolutely masterful how Austen captures her pride and prejudice in so few sentences.
I often think, if only the Bennets had had a family meeting and discussed Mr. Collins willingness to marry one of the girls! It would have been obvious that Mary was the only daughter willing to give him a chance.
I agree. Mrs. Bennett was pretty clueless about her daughters, assuming Lizzy would of course accept him, but if Mr. Bennett had pushed her and pushed Mr. Collins towards Mary, things would have ended differently.
I always saw this as more of an example of Mr. Bennett’s apathy than anything else. Mr. Collins, with all his flaws, would have helped the family tremendously by marrying a Bennett daughter. Mr. Bennett just…didn’t seem to care.
I don't think that would have been viewed as seemly, and it would have been far too democratic-looking for Mrs. Bennet's taste. I suspect that if Mr. Bennet had got wind of it, he would have put his foot down. Mr. Collins' pomposity and lack of sense amused him, but not to the point that he would have liked to have him for a son-in-law. If Charlotte had not been so quick off the mark, though, I suppose he would have agreed to a Mary/Mr. Collins match as being probably the best she would attract.
Mr. Bennet did care; he really did not want Mr. Collins as a son-in-law. Whether he was acting in the best interests of his daughters is another question.
Yeah, but Mary wasn't good looking enough to satisfy his vanity. He wanted Jane first bc she was the prettiest, and only chased Lizzie when he couldn't get Jane. Mary would've been way down his list bc he was silly enough to think he was attractive to better looking women. Sad but true 😅
@@FionaEm Charlotte was not beautiful, either. She appealed to his vanity and won him over.
I'm so happy the new lecture is on the way. Looking forward to it. 😊 Regards
I think that Mary and Mr Collins were similar enough to be a good match on paper. Both religious, proper and boring. But I don't think Mary would've trived at Hunsford, with all the duties of a wife of a religious leader, household economy and "managing" Lady Catherine. She never struck me as a pragmatic or involved. During the fall-out of Lydia's elopment, did she step in to aid Jane? No, she still studied so much that Jane didn't want to bother her during breaks. Down to earth Charlotte was a much better much counterbalance for Mr Collins' fanciful streak. She took on the mental labour of that relationship as well as household and parishioners, so Mr Collins can focus on his sermons, his reading and being a court jester at Rosings Park. An unfair load on Charlotte by any standards, but a great match for Mr Collins.
First of all - welcome back! I have missed your videos and look forward to listening to the one on JA's use of wit. This was a fascinating read of Mary Bennett. Other than the two lead sisters, she is by far the most interesting (arguable more interesting in fact than Jane). There is some real complexity there - her over-inflated view of her musical abilities, for example. But I am glad she didn't land Mr Collins. His patron Lady Catherine would not have liked her one bit - the terrible singing and her insistence on doing it at every available opportunity would have seen to that, along with her lack of humility. And of course Mr Collins would never have defended his wife against his "noble patroness" so a source of endless strife in that scenario. Although one would have liked to see Charlotte marry for love, she was a far better match for him given that she new exactly what she was getting and was happy with that.
Yes! I've always thought this was a rather sad little subplot, the way those two didn't get together even though they're perfect for each other, and she obviously liked him, which no one else did. Poor Mary. She's going to end up a spinster who lives permanently with one of her sisters. And poor Charlotte Lucas too of course married to that insufferable man.
According to James Edward Austen-Leigh, Jane Austen's nephew, in his _Memoir of Jane Austen_ (1869), Mary Bennet settled for marrying a local attorney's clerk: "She [JA] would, if asked, tell us many little particulars about the subsequent career of some of her people. In this traditionary way we learned that ... Mary obtained nothing higher than one of her uncle Philip’s clerks [Mr Philips is Meryton's attorney], and was content to be considered a star in the society of Meryton".
The 1995 mini series basically said what we all know- Mr Collins is still a man, silly as he is. So he started with the prettiest daughter and worked his way through. Despite all his fancy words, he always wanted the pretty girl.
There's a sequel to P&P where Mary gets to shine. I believe it's called _Pemberly._
@@DrOctaviaCoxthe Philips didn't have children, though, so the clerk COULD have taken on the business and Mary the money so it's not that bad for her
@@katinphilly1312 Just what I think. Though he attributes his interest in marrying to his patron, his thoughts are a bit more carnal.
Fun fact; Marsha Hunt who played Mary Bennet in the 1940 movie version (staring Greer Garson and Lawrence Olivier) died only last year at the age of 104. It makes me think that since Pride and Prejudice was published in 1813, about a little more that 200 years ago, it is like it was only really 2 lifetimes ago.
I think Mary adds that little bit of detail that is in the back of our minds as we read about Mr. Collins. Here, Mr. Collins is automatically attaching his interest to the older sisters, regardless of whether they are well suited to each other. Elizabeth and Jane are "out of his league", yet he relentlessly sets his sights on them. Marriage with Lizzie would be a disaster for them both, and Mary would be best suited to him based on personality, yet Collins pursues looks over character. This small part of the text beautifully illustrates the shallowness and lack of self awareness of Mr. Collins, and the loneliness of the overlooked Mary.
The Other Bennet Sister by Janice Hadlow fleshes Mary's story out in such a rich way that beautifully dovetails with the P&P text.
Wonderful lecture, Dr. Cox!
I always thought the line about all hopes being dashed applied to Mrs. Bennet as well as Mary.
I really like your observation about Mary's hopes and plans for marrying Mr Collins. There's a sense in some novels and in some narrative styles that other characters stand still until they're observed by the narrater. While the short, but well constucted little section about Mary, really shows that other characters in Austen's novels are thinking and planning and feeling apart from the main character
I actually like to think Austen, had she lived today, certainly, would have written a series where more of the characters would have gotten a book. Mary's isn't the only story without a conclusion.
The Other Bennet Sister, a recent novel, did a nice portrayal of Mary. Made her less conceited and holier than thou.
Kitty, according to Jane Austin‘s nephew who wrote a biography of his aunt, “Kitty Bennet was satisfactorily married to a clergyman near Pemberley,”
Jane Austen used to discuss her characters with her relatives and so it was well known in the family as to what the future held for them.
This was true for the books that had already been published. And as pride and prejudice is my absolute favourite it’s lovely to know what Austen had in mind.
I agree. Mary Bennett was a character I felt a little sorry for. She definitely has her flaws, but she tries really hard to overcome her ‘disadvantages’ in terms of looks and wit/personality with learning. I guess I kind of feel I can empathise with trying really hard at things and the result being too ‘pedantic’ and not really good at it, while other people seem naturally gifted. 😅
I always imagine Lydia creating fashionable hats and selling them to support her family.
@@ninaklein8154 I loved that book. It delves into Mary's character and you end up routing for her by the end of part one. I loved the way the two books were intertwined ( part 1)
Looking forward to this! Your analyses are always so insightful, you’ve been missed.
I was having a gloomy day and this really brightened it! So happy to see you giving a lecture on this channel again 💫
I'm excited for this one!
At 12:59 - With Virginia Woolf's observation that "characters can move hither and thither, whether or not the author watches them" is a perfect set-up for fan fiction: taking the perspective of a character who isn't the main focus of the novel, for example.
I am watching in silent mode (because of a sleeping baby) and your video is the first here on RUclips that is - so far - perfectly legible with automatic subtitles - bravo to your clear articulation!
Its so funny, i was just thinking about this channel today. Im really exciting for this new episode.
So excited to see this pop up today in my feed. Can't wait to view it. Thank you, Dr. Cox.
I absolutely loved the different ending that was in the Lawrence Olivier version, where she is perfectly paired off with someone better than Mr. Collins. I think just because she would have married him to save the family, it doesn't mean she would have chosen him under other circumstances. Thank you for this video!
I have a perverse fondness for the 1940s P&P: it was my earliest exposure to Austen, and it still remains my favorite adaptation, though I know it's actually based on a stage play of the novel, and we're getting the story third-hand. But Marsha Hunt's Mary is very sweet and charmingly goofy here: one of the many little details between the actors has Greer Garson's Lizzie leaning over to take a look at Mary's new book from the bookstore and smiling about it. Hunt, in real life, had a nice singing voice, and she knows how to direct Mary's attempts so that they come off sincere and off. The last moment with her, when she hits the note and smiles in amazement and appreciation, is a favorite one of mine.
@@melenatorr I like the 1940s version as well.
@@julieletford5695 It's one of those movies that my sisters and I will often quote at each other out of nowhere.
Sorry, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would like the Olivier-Garson P&P, when we have several much truer adaptations.
@@sybillestahl8646 From an extremely personal point of view:
The 1940s version is the only one that makes me smile and laugh and feel on the side of the characters. Melville Cooper, complete with that funny little musical motif, captures Mr. Collins in a way that, for me, no one else does. Greer Garson is old for the part, but understands Lizzie's wry, dry charm, and I like her scenes with Olivier. The actors feel like a family: they live and know that house; they know and relate to each other with little throw-away glances, nods and gestures that make me feel like these are truly sisters. There is no Bennet parental unit like Mary Boland and Edmund Gwenn: that first scene of theirs together is, for me, perfection.
For me, while the other versions may be much, much more accurate, I don't, for the most part, enjoy them: for me, they generally lack in spirit, somehow, or they're trying too hard, or they want to make some kind of point that is best left to come naturally. I do not "get along" with Colin Firth's Darcy - in fact, thanks to this production, I ended up not feeling much for Firth at all until "The King's Speech", and for me, there's a general sense of drag through many of the episodes. I'm not a fan of the "messiness" I get from the Keira Knightley version.
Very subjective, and I did say my enjoyment of the 1940 version is perverse....
First of all - great to have you back! Can we look forward to further videos analysing characters?
A slight digression: there is a character in "Jane Eyre" whose function in that novel might have been analogous to Mary Bennet's in P&P - Helen Burns. Unfortunately, she is bumped off far too quickly - had she survived and Helen's and the heroine's friendship developed, just possibly the former would have learned to stand up for herself a little more and (more importantly) the latter might have learned to be a little more self-critical and so be less insufferable.
But Mary: the word "companion" is relevant here. Yes, yes, I get that she is being cautious, but really, with the possible exception of Edmund Bertram and Mary Crawford, could we imagine any two characters in JA's works for whom marriage would not have been a greater unforeseen (though foreseeable to the reader) disaster than Mary Bennet and Mr Collins? (And with Edmund and Mary C. I think each would have realised that the mistake was their own.) Both Mr Collins and Mary are rather dim and both think a great deal too much of themselves; Mary is a better pianist (technically) than Lizzy, but she "has neither genius nor taste", her playing is "pedantic" and "mannered"*, and thus is less pleasing than Lizzy's (who stays within her own competence). Mary's voice is "weak" (much too weak for Netherfield Hall) but she assumes that the polite applause that she receives is a demand for an encore (NB I don't think that "weak" is a synonym for "out of tune to the point where she is tone deaf"). She repeats tired old nostrums and assumes that they are original thoughts. Mr Bennet's negligence (particularly in the educational sphere) as a parent is at least as malign toward Mary as it is toward Lydia, though in a very different ways. I feel rather sorry for Mary.
*After 60 years of concert-, recital-, and opera-going, I think that I know what JA meant!
Jane Eyre is a mystery novel. We are not getting the rich inner lives of the passengers of Poirot's Orient Express for the same reason we aren't getting Mrs Fairfax's. Not because they don't have any but because their rich inner lives spoil the plot twist. Genre and its necessary limitations is a weird thing to criticize JE for.
@@magdn1 Criticising "Jane Eyre"? You underestimate my arrogance - I was suggesting a way in which Charlotte Bronte could have improved her novel and made the eponymous heroine more likable!!!
@@HRJohn1944 hey, I love and like Jane Eyre... why do you think she is unlikeable....?
Enjoyed this comment very much. We all feel a little sorry for Mary Bennet, because she is so overlooked by all her family, including by Jane and Elizabeth. But there's no denying she's not really very likeable - too conceited and sententious, as you say. And while we might like to think she could improve, that's not Jane Austen's way. Even Emma Woodhouse doesn't really "improve", so much as open her eyes. She's still going to be bossy and meddling, just not quite so disastrously.
You're back! A wonderful as a new Audley House episode!😊
Seriously, we've missed you.❤
I hope you are doing well with your other endeavors, as you have been missed.
Thank you for this topic. I dont think that Mary and Mr. Collins would have faired too well. They were too much alike with their unhealthy egos. And just by Mary thinking how she could change him is a red flag for me. Whereas, Charlotte knew how he was and accepted him. However, its hard to know how that all turned out either. Sometimes with an example of how to be happy, smarter and less arrogant, he might just change his behavior. No telling.
Maybe, you could look into some of the scenarios of the characters lives after the book that Jane Austin herself talked about in how they faired. That would be fun.
Thank you for your explanation regarding the writing itself to help us understand the thoughts and who they actually came from. You've helped me understand this book so much more.because in this day and age, it's a bit much to grasp it all with Jane's genius writing. ❤🥰❤
He wasn't going to change with Lady Catherine as an example. II think Mary would have complied with Fordyce's advice, being as prudent as she was, and obeyed her husband. She would have reveled in being given the role of clergyman's wife (think a regency era version of Helen Lovejoy from The Simpsons)
I’m so excited to see another video from you. This is a wonderful topic to cover, too! ☺️
When you emphasized "solidity of reflections" I was reminded of my nearest superior at work. She has a specific favourite phrase she uses as a compliment of other people. I think this one is Mary's favourite compliment of anyone, including herself.
plus of course, it is completely wrong, as reflections are never solid, that is the whole point of them!
I’ve always thought that Mary illustrates the predicament of a woman who hasn’t got the advantages of money/class/beauty or great charm in making a marriage (she would have to compromise) and tries to set herself as an intellectual in order to carve out a space and a value for herself. Of course she is not a great intellect, but I understand her need to present/think of herself as such. It’s a form of self preservation for the ego.
I'm playing Charlotte in a production of "Pride and Prejudice" right now and we were ruminating on this exact question. I'm definitely going to send them this video! Considering how quickly Mr. Collins leapt from Jane to Lizzy, it's not unreasonable for *both* Mrs. Bennet and Mary to assume that he would begin courting Mary next. I think the language at the end of the paragraph you cite, "every hope of that kind," might be referring to Mary's and Mrs. Bennet's hopes. Had there been no Charlotte, Mr. Collins could very well have just moved right along to the third sister, but Charlotte saw her chance and grabbed it.
Agreed! Think the phrasing is referring to mother and daughter's hopes. Which I guess just adds to Mrs B's frustration & chagrin when she hears Charlotte has bagged Mr Collins!
And even though we are strongly encouraged by the text to laugh at her, I do think Mrs Bennett has her daughter's best interests at heart here? Knowing she must marry for financial survival, and being aware there is a confluence of character & interests between her and Collins. (Whether they'd bring out the best in each other or encourage each other into folly isn't something she seems too concerned about in any of her children's matches!)
Glad to see you back! There is a video by Ellie Dashwood entitled "What is Mary Bennet's Purpose in Life?" Where she discusses why she believes Mary is essential, I'd be interested to know if you agree. I've always noticed the way Mary is treated by her family, particularly her parents. While Mr. Bennet respects Jane and Lizzie's intelligence he scoffs at Mary's attempt to be intelligent and doesn't seem to be interested in guiding her. Mrs. Bennet also puts Mary down for reading too much. Lizzie told Lady Catherine that those who wanted to learn were encouraged but I don't get that impression, at least not where Mary is concerned, but maybe I'm missing something.
Now they are out in society, I think Mary is scoffed at for reading too much because her mother is worried no man will want to marry her- Mrs Bennett was picked for her looks not her brains and comes from the middle class. While her father recognises that booksmarts are not what makes intelligence. He already has his wife bossing him around and he much prefers Lizzie and Jane's wit. Mary looks like she's trying to be smart and thinks she's smart but can't see beyond black and white. Elizabeth reads a lot but she reads more widely and so she is an interesting person.
Thanks @junipercats for flagging that vid - was on my mind too! 😊
I feel like the reason Mr Bennet doesn't encourage Mary's intelligence is her lack of a sense of humour? He only seems to like Lizzy's sharp wit because it amuses him, really. Mary's pomposity & lack of self-awareness annoys him, and so he mocks her, rather than encouraging her to turn her moralizing awareness inwards. I don't think even Austen herself seems to argue for Mr Bennet being a good parent, alas! 😒
I agree with both of you, Mr. Bennet prefers Lizzie for her sharp wit and Jane for her good sense both of which are enhanced by natural intelligence. Mary is intelligent but lacks both sense and wit. She may have read more than her elder sisters and read more books that were instructive and it may be that she has learned more but without good sense she misapplies what she has learned and without real wit takes it too seriously. Add to that her vanity at having out-read her sisters and thinking she understands better than they do, and it's no wonder Mr. Bennet thinks her a very silly person.
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Yeah, Mr. Bennet is usually portrayed as the nicer parent in screen adaptations, but he's really not a good father. He plays favourites, he's judgemental, and he consistently puts his own comfort over ensuring that his daughters have a good future.
@@junipercats2472 I think you make a good point. Mary's reading and accomplishments are performative. She has a lot of information, but not the natural intelligence, understanding, or sense to put it together. It is as if she were copying her older sisters and her father, but is incapable of putting assembling it into a reasonable whole. She seems puzzled/oblivious by her father's and sisters' response to her trying to be just like them. I suspect that Mr. Bennet was a very involved parent to Jane and Lizzie, but quit by the time it came to Mary's education (which would about the time he realized that there was not going to be a son). It must have been very sad for Mary to watch her father so engaged with her older sisters, but not her.
Always a treat to hear from you Dr Cox! A question for you - what do you think Jane a Austen would have made of the Brontes? Wuthering Heights?
A good question, Susan. I certainly think she would have enjoyed poking fun at some of their more _unrealistic_ aspects!
@@DrOctaviaCox LOL. And I always assumed Mary would have married Mr Collins in a heartbeat. I think she saw herself as soooooo morally superior that she was a natural to be a preacher’s wife. Alas he may not have lived up to her standards nor she his in the end.
I think Northanger Abbey is your answer.
@@jrpipik haaaaa!! But it was an answer to Wilkie Collins etc. Imagine what she would have made if Heathcliff and Cathy!!
@@susanrobertson984 Catherine would have had ghosts on the brain!
Good to have you back :) I have always loved the way Mary Bennett's pretensions to intellect are contrasted with Lizzy & Darcy's natural cleverness. They don't shout about their intellectual prowess either.
I do think Lizzie is a little vain of her cleverness.
Actually they do. Actually I never thought Elizabeth was all that clever.
@@akapam57 Both have what one would call wit. They see and think abstractly and beyond the literal- hence why their dialogue is so good. While Mr Collins may gush over Rosings, Lizzie sees it for what it is- ostentatious and Darcy sees his aunt's pretend airs and graces as vulgar snobbery. Even her father says Lizzie has more wit than most women- women were generally considered to think emotionally while men where meant to think more analytically. They are just governed by their emotions and immediate assumptions until later on and that crowds and that obscures their thinking- hence Pride and Prejudice. Jane was always an advocate for more rational rather than emotional thinking, while not completely rejecting the heart- see Sense and Sensibility.
Being clever and being intelligent are two different things. None of the Bennett sisters are intellectual stars.
So glad to see you back with another video! I would be curious to hear you analyse why Elizabeth is so reluctant to go along with her mother's schemes to give Mr. Bingley a chance to propose to Jane when he returns to Netherfield at the end of the novel.
Great question! I've often read that section with a bit of a quizzical brow. It could be a morality thing (Regency courting couples were supposed to be very closely supervised), or that she found her mother's too-obvious manoevrings embarrassing &/or feared they might put Bingley off again?
However, I almost feel like it's Elizabeth testing Bingley's resolve & perhaps even holding a wee grudge for his previous inconstancy towards Jane? Like, "If he REALLY cares and has grown a spine, he'll make his own opportunities... If he doesn't, then he's still not good enough for my fave sister!" 😂
I’ve missed your content, looking forward to this
Thank you!
Thank you for this illuminating video. Wonderful insights into Mary’s pride! It does seem as though someone who is forever moralizing would have to believe themselves to be superior in understanding. She would have found a “project” in Mr. Collins that would suit her. I wonder how much he would have liked her attempts at instructing him? Somehow I think he’d find her just as irritating as the rest of her family does. I don’t think Mary possesses Charlotte’s subtlety.
Given Mr Collins' stated high opinion of himself, one does wonder! 😆 Despite (or rather because of) their similar characters I think they would probably have brought out the worst in each other. But I can't help feeling the theoretical resulting relationship would've been one the perpetually snarky JA would have had a really good time skewering on the page! 😏
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 your answer made me laugh out loud , I think you are spot on. I felt a touch of Mr . and Mrs. Pugh in Under Milk Wood where in a silence in a terse exchange Dylan Thomas says " An Icicle formed in the air". Thankyou for making a grumpy old man laugh.
I do so miss your regular videos, especially about Jane Austen books. I don't have any particular question or idea for you to talk about. In fact, you did videos on things that would never occur to me, opening up new ways to look at her works. I've had to reread every book with my new knowledge!
Absolutely yes poor girl! Great to have you back ❤
I read that Hilary Mantel started on a novel told from Mary Bennet’s point of view. Sadly, the author has died before finishing it. I’d have loved to read it.
There’s Jennifer Paynter’s 2014 The Forgotten Sister: Mary Bennet’s Pride and Prejudice, which narrates the events of Austen’s novel from Mary’s point of view. There’s also Pamela Mingle’s The Pursuit of Mary Bennet: A Pride and Prejudice Novel, which offers Mary an alternate romantic subplot. And A Match For Mary Bennet, which does the same.
I've always thought Mary exists as a mirror of Collins: respectable and pious but vain and silly. The fact that Collins ends up with Lizzie's eminently sensible bestie instead is a terrific plot twist 😊
I can't wait!
cant wait!!!
I find it interesting/amusing that Austen's readers are so quick to feel for Mary and to want to insert these charitable interpretations of her character and then Fanny Price of Mansfield Park is referred to as "insipid". We are given all the insights and reasons to feel for Fanny but reject them yet invent all these reasons to love and forgive Mary. A lot of Austen fans, myself included, tend to be wallflower sorts of people and tend to project ourselves onto these side characters. I am not certain Austen ever intended us to be so charitable to Mary and it makes me pause and wonder at my own pretences of intelligence or personality. One of my favourite lines of the whole novel is "Mary wished to say something very sensible, but knew not how". It's entertaining to know even 200 years ago that girls were still clinging to "at least I have a good personality". She knew she didn't have the looks so wanted to be known for her accomplishments. I do pity her that it seems she didn't even have that--I can certainly identify with that too! But I don't want to be a Mary. She does seem to be the sort of silly that would not take advantage of her two well-married sisters to get a good match of her own and end up with a local lawyer's clerk. She probably could have met some decent men visiting her sisters, including whoever Bingley or Darcy would have hired for their own parishes. Her other Uncle Gardiner would have known rich businessmen she could have connected with too. Perhaps she saw such manoeuvrings as 'beneath' her or as immoral.
Fanny Price is my absolute favourite of the heroines though. I will always defend her as I identify with her more than any of the other heroines.
You make some very interesting points! It definitely makes me wonder where the author's own sympathies truly lay? Austen seems to put quite a lot of effort into these glimpses of the interiority of even her more unlikeable characters. In fact, even the villains of the piece often have their motivations & feelings laid out in fair detail, albeit usually after the twist in the tale has happened! I feel like that insight does lure the reader into empathizing with them more, perhaps unconsciously, as it puts us "in their shoes" for a bit...?
One character whose consistently unsympathetic treatment by Austen does surprise me a bit is Mrs Bennet! My memory may be faulty, but I don't recall any instances where we're invited to sympathise with her in this way, & her emotional excesses are very harshly criticized... and yet if we understand her family's economic situation, her panic about getting her daughters married seems WAY more sensible than Mr Bennet's laissez-faire approach! And his constantly mocking her rather than trying to kindly broaden her perspective can start to seem very cruel & counterproductive. Elizabeth clearly far prefers her father, & we're invited to do likewise due to being in her viewpoint, but the more I reread the book, the more my sympathies shift away from him and the more sorry I feel for her mother... however hard she makes that by her own behaviour! 😂
I think the big difference between the two is that one is a side character and one is the heroine. And for modern audiences, it's okay for a side character to be a wet blanket but the heroine needs to be a sparkling personality.
Welcome back. Brilliant. I always thought they deserved each other - Mary and Mr Collins that is - as they feel very similar characters to me.
Mary and Lydia contrast each other like night and day. The differences between the two sisters are profound. On one hand Lydia is flirtatious and puts herself in front of men, whereas Mary is much more reserve and acts upon decorum. I believe each sister creates their own special identity within themselves to be unique from one another.
This is great news!! I really love these lectures and learn a great deal from them. Thanks!!
I thought Bennett was spelt with 2 t's
I've felt like Mary turned to her studies as a way to distinguish herself from her sisters. Jane was the most beautiful, Lizzie the wit, and Kitty and Lydia in cahoots... since she didn't have a sufficiency of education, she grew pedantic. She knew she couldn't dream of a brilliant match, and her prospects were probably dimmest out of all her sisters since she was the least agreeable. Mr Collins was probably her best chance for a life independent of her family. I think she wasn't quite realistic in her ability to manage him and the marriage would have been less agreeable than she supposed. He would have always been bringing up the deficiencies of her family as well.
As with many other characters, in all her novels, Jane Austen constantly reminds us of how self-involved we are, how unaware of other people. Being “the only plain one” in the family, Mary works hard on establishing herself as a somebody, so that she is not lost amidst her beautiful and sexy sisters. It’s the human spirit at work, rising to the occasion, no matter how silly it may seem or actually be. No matter - Jane Austen is both a tireless observer and a champion of the human spirit, especially in women. That’s part of her genius and appeal.
I have not visited this channel for some time. That’s my loss - as Dr. Cox’s takes are wonderful & subtle. You can imagine Jane Austen chuckling to herself as she wrote lines for Mary Bennett (in the same way that you can imagine Ishiguro silently laughing sometimes he recounted some of the most farcical predicaments (& musings) of Stevens in remains of the Day.)
I'd like to punt out how far you've come. In your first videos it always took you a while to shake off your nerves and now you speak so smoothly. And it's such a pleasure to listen to you (especially since my first language is not English).
I was hoping you'd put out a new video soon and I am sooo enjoying this one.
Thank you and enjoy your free weekend :)
Also I like your new haircut
As Jane Eyre is written from the first person point of view, it is to be expected that the other characters would appear only as they are perceived by the narrator. On the other hand, the shifting point of view in Jane Austen’s novels allows us to take a peek at the inner lives of minor characters.
That was my first thought too.
In every version of P&P (including BBC 1980) Mary is shown to be partial to Mr Collins. Mr Collins is going for beauty, and never notices Mary. In the 1995 version, Jane drives Mr Collins to Mary to discuss Fordyce's sermons... to no avail. He was very lucky to end up with Charlotte Lucas.
Totally agree. Mr. Collins and Mrs. Bennett were oblivious.
Its so lovely to see you back!
I *always* thought so. The BBC 1980 series makes this clear in her expressions; one of the reasons I love it the best.
I love how the actress in Kiera Knightly's Pride and Prejudice also nods at this but very subtly. It's something that took a couple of watches to notice and I feel like it's the same in the books, in that it took a few reads to pick it up for me. Loving your videos
Masterful analysis as usual Dr Cox. Brava!
I remember noting Mary's vanity when first reading P&P as a schoolboy and thinking "she's obviously got tickets on herself". However I don't recall considering the possibility of a romantic/marital connection between her and Mr Collins. I expect that most schoolboys wouldn't. I rather naively thought that any "companionship" would revolve around their analysing Fordyce's Sermons together.
Thank you, Dr. Cox. I am so grateful for your inspiring discussions.
I simply love your analyses. I've read Pride and Prejudice probably 5 times in the past several years and never really noticed that passage before. And I definitely did not notice the parallel passage of Mary's reflections in the early chapter vs her impression of his reflections here. It's amazing how much can be picked from these seemingly spartan sentences that is so (now) obviously intentional.
So happy to see you back ‼️
For the clerk, marrying Mary would be the equivalent of marrying the boss's daughter. He would take over the business and she would inherit the Phillips' money. Also, the connections to rich men with, especially in Darcy's case, the possibility of legal work to be done, would make Mary much more desirable a match than when she was just one of the Bennet's five daughters!
It's really interesting to see that JA's characters lived on in her own head too, and not just those of her readers! An amusing contrast to some other authors (cf Conan Doyle) who just wanted to kill off their characters by the end, regardless of how well-received they'd been by the public...
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 Comparing Austen and Doyle is not really apples-to-apples. Doyle was a competent writer, but the Holmes stories are all that's read now out of a large body of work. Austen is only now being recognized as one who influenced the development of the novel even more than Defoe, Richardson, and Fielding, who were the ones traditionally taught as the fathers of the novel. Austen might be called the mother of the novel, as she took the rough and flawed form they began and shaped it into the grown-up novel it has been since her time.
Great vlog by the way. Admire your passion for the subject!
This is why I love the 2005 movie so much. The directing of the side characters and background actors conveyed the exact same effect that Jane Austen achieved in her books. Every time I rewatch it I pick up on a new detail in the background, the way a character looks at another, or two characters whispering to each other, or just their body language. It really fleshes out the world of P&P and adds depth to the other characters
I thought the Mary character helped to illustrate something about the morality of the time that Austen was interested in illustrating. Mary was, on the surface, everything that the morality of the day pushed forward as virtuous, and yet she was prideful about that and was lacking in the kind of self-awareness that would allow her to be more interesting or vital like her sisters. She was essential to helping Austen's readers notice the vitality and likability that even the reckless younger sisters had.
By contrast, Fanny Price in Mansfield Park fit all of the popular notions of virtue, was not prideful, was pretty boring/insipid, and yet retained a kind of likability by digging in her heels at the idea of obeying the status-based social expectation instead of her inner conscience. In that case, I think Austen wanted to illustrate the difference between those 2 kinds of social "virtue" on the backdrop of a character that was perfectly virtuous by the standards of the time.
Good point! And it really makes me wonder how the various sisters were received by readers of the time, as opposed to us with our modern sensibities! For example, we see Lizzy's athleticism & lack of pretension as admirable, but I wonder if many of the contemporary authors would've censured some of her behaviour...? How iconoclastic was Austen in making her the main heroine?
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166 I don't know historically, but I get hints from the text -- how Lizzy is described as "positively wild" for walking several miles in the mud. Even though Darcy likes her by then, he has to admit that he wouldn't want his sister to behave like that. And the reaction to her various refusals of marriage offers shows a lot. Her mother is outraged about Mr. Collins and very vocal about that, without any allowance for Lizzy's feelings about spending her life with a man like that. Lizzy mentions in her refusal of Darcy that the convention is that she is obligated to accept him just by virtue of his status. With Fanny Price, you see even more of the judgments of being "headstrong" or "disobliging." Must have been a nightmare to navigate life as a woman back then.
I think that Jane Austen often uses the device of providing two extremes to bring us to the middle.She does this with many heroes and heroines. Marianne, Elinor, and Lucy in S&S, for example. Lydia is the narcissistic, self-centered, careless, immoral and uncaring extreme; Mary is the moralistic, humorless, and untalented opposite other extreme. Between these two reside Lizzie who comes off as perfectly balanced and wonderful.
I don't think that Fanny Price is a good example of a likeable heroine at all. She is deeply boring, insipid and I think prideful in her humility too, though she's certainly a little bit smarter and more socially aware than poor old Mary Bennet. Anne Elliot is a much better example of a truely virtuous (by the standards of the day) heroine, who is introverted, bookish and conventional, but likeable. And I think the reason why Anne is so sympathetic while Fanny Price is so irritating and unsympathetic is the rigid, moralizing, envious, poe faced nature of Fanny's inner monologue as opposed to Anne's wise, thoughtful, much more appealing inner monologue.
@@lilith3953 Yeah. I meant more likable than Mary Bennett. She gives Fanny some respect.
When Mr. Collins first appeared upon the scene I immediately thought how perfect he would be for Mary since she was much more conservative than Lydia and Kitty and more bookish than Elizabeth and Jane. I thought the actor in the TV series perfectly captured in a single look Mr. Collin's reasons for not considering her. Such a pity things didn't work out as they would have been a hoot of a couple.
It's *always* a pleasure to hear your analyses, especially of Austen (& you're so right about the 'world' she creates -- it has been many years since I read those novels but I can 'see' all her characters, including their character & behavior, whenever I think about them -- she created the world/s but I live in them too!) I hope all is going well with your coursework -- you are certainly missed in terms of your regular posts but we all appreciate that you are sharing your considerable talents with a paying audience :)
Yes !!! 😀😀😀
Oh Dr. Octavia it’s lovely to have you back! I hope all is well on your end. Your chapters are always a delight!
6:20 Hmm! My reading of the "every hope" phrasing is slightly different - I believe Austen is referring to the hopes of Mary AND of Mrs Bennett here, as both of them had aspirations for Mr Collins to marry her? Rather than multiple hopes of Mary's own. (Though I do believe Dr Cox is right in her reading of her previous lines, indicating Mary had been contemplating the possibility for some time). Really liked how it was played in the 1995 series, indeed subtle but touching.
In terms of whether Mary would've been a better choice for Mr C. than Charlotte... My opinion would be yes? She actually saw something positive in him other than his providing marital security (even if with some intellectual arrogance!) and they also had shared interests, as indicated by this paragraph. Whereas Charlotte only married him to avoid being left single (didn't even need it for financial survival, like Mary did) and essentially shared no convictions or interests with him, apart perhaps from agreeing that toadying to Lady Catherine would get them ahead socially.... 🙄
Insightful discussion! The assessment of Virginia Woolf about the >living quality< of certain characters especially struck me!
So nice to see you back!
As an aside, your hair looks great! I'm so grateful to see a new video. As a recovering English Literature major working as a nurse, this part of my brain loves the exercise you provide for it!!
Thanks!
Always a joy listening to your literary insights.
When I read this book, I was convinced by the text that Mary fancied Collins. I was sorry for Mary that she was not even considered as an option.
So glad to see this!!❤😊
Hello from Montreal. Love your analysis. Love Jane Austen. I agree with your analysis of Mary Bennett. Great work.
Congratulations. I’ve been a doctor for 25 years and wish I could do the same. I found you after searching for a video on the cruise from Florida to NYC, Charleston. It was so, so helpful and fun. You have a fantastic personality and I've been a subscriber ever since.
If you do on-line Spanish GCSE tuition, I'd be v v interested for my son. You must have been an amazing teacher but after 25y, you deserve to make the move.
Congratulations and I wish you all the best. ❤
I had only read Pride & Prejudice one time before I watched the 1995 BBC version, the best version. I didn’t pick up on Mary’s fondness for Mr. Collins in the book, but it was unmistakable in the series. Kudos to the actress who played her 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Although it would have been nice for Mary and Mr. Collins to wed, we wouldn’t have gotten the perspective of the social condition (a.k.a. desperation) of a Regency era woman in her mid to late 20s being unmarried and her justification for lowering her standard like we did from Charlotte Lucas.
😏 What’s love got to do with it….? Indeed Charlotte, indeed.
Looking forward to this. 1980 mini series to me is the best Mary. Well the best P&P ever. Just my opinion.
I always wondered why Jane never got these two together in her book. But then I think charlotte was probably better able to handle Mr Collins. I can never make up my mind 😬
I think it heightens the jeopardy, if Mary is going to get Longbourne then the family is safe much earlier in the novel. I think it would be a great irony if, after Lizzie spends much of the book basically ignoring her 'wisdom' Mary suddenly won the Longbourne jackpot, but it would also reward her character when she is supposed to be as wrong as Lydia, just the opposite extreme.
@@hannahreynolds7611 oh so nice to hear others appreciating this wonderful miniseries. Elizabeth Garvey will always be my Elizabeth Bennett. She was just as I imagined her in the book come to life. I do prefer all the older adaptions. Especially 1983 Mansfield Park. Clunky sets and all.
I had a big crush on David Rintoul. He did a brilliant TV series Doctor Finlay, I keep hoping to get the DVDs.
I was also going to comment on Tessa Peake Jones’s portrayal of Mary Bennet. I think she does the very best at capturing Mary’s inner pride (as another illustration of it, perhaps, on Austen’s part) and of her continual efforts to be “philosophical” and “intellectual” while only providing “profound insights into the obvious.”
@@sylvain123 I heard that David Rintoul was a good actor - but he was terrible as Darcy, I suspect it was directions. Unfortunately (I would like to like him on second viewieng, but no). Sure there were societal restraints (even in the 1995 miniseries Lizzy and Fitzwilliam do not kiss when they finally get engaged). But Rintoul played him extremely stiff. The man was supposed to be madly in love after all.
I love all your videos, glad to see one up again, it seems like it's been a while. I want to offer a point of view that disagrees with one of your statements, that Mary's observation is not necessary, not even in the scene in which it takes place. I think it's actually very revealing. Firstly, because Mr. Collins has been described until now as a very disagreeable man (mostly from Lizzy's perspective, and to some degree Jane's) and with both humorous and tense scenes having just taken place. Mr. Collins is described as less than sufficient if he were the last man, etc. Yet... he is not wrong about his desirable status in life.
Charlotte accepts him for it, and she lightly berates Lizzy for doubting whether anyone be secured by him at all. The revelation from Mary's perspective is _incredibly_ valuable in heightening Mr. Collins' status in life, and by extension in allowing the reader to attribute more pride to Lizzy's character. Mr. Collins was not good enough for Lizzy. But because there's not one but _two_ women who thought very realistically about securing him, both their sentiments are brought forward as more real and valid, more part of the world of the book. If Mary already thought this, we can understand Charlotte better too.
It means we can allow ourselves to doubt (if we don't know the entire story) whether Lizzy made the right choice after all. And to some degree it adds credence to the scenes where Mrs. Bennett is so horrendously upset.
Happy to see you again, welcome back!
Agree with you re: Mary. Agree with prior commentators about her pride, prejudice and pathos.
I very much enjoy your videos - thank you for broadening my appreciation for Jane Austen as a writer. Sometime I hope you might consider a video about Mrs. Smith from Persuasion. I find her to be a very interesting person in her own right, living as a disabled person (yet still a lady) at that time.