@@AzrielKnight At least in Europe, there are alternatives to Kodak products. Kodak had never such a grip on the film and photofinishing in Europe it once had in North America. Yes, its position was strong, but Fuji and the German Agfa (now defunct) had their share of the business. In B&W, Ilford should not be forgotten. Adox still produces much of chemistries according to the old Agfa recipes. They have also started to make their versions of Kodak´s powder developers, such as D-76 in addition to their version of XTOL. There is also Bellini Foto, which makes quality chemistry. I have used their E-6 kits since Fuji Hunt discontinued their 5 L kirs for E6. This is a good product in my opinion, but available only in 1L size. The other option would be Fuji, but it is available only in very big quantities, such as for 100 L of developer. Of course, there are the "CineStill powder kits", but these are nonstandard, simplified processes that cut somewhere for simplicity. Not the kind of chemistry I would opt for.
I've been using XTOL since it was announced. Over 25-years experience. IME, HP5+ in stock strength XTOL is an ISO 320 film (slower than box speed, not faster). XTOL produces finer grain than D76, but loses a tiny bit of sharpness. Stock XTOL will last at least a year in a full glass container (just used some last night). Also, XTOL patents have expired and ECO PRO developer is an equal formula, readily available, so Kodak's production problems are a non-issue. Hope this helps.
though the film resurgence continues, we shouldn't forget stuff like this can still happen. I believe Kodak can find a more stable manufacturer, but it's going to take time.
While I have several bags of Xtol waiting to be used, I did try legacyPro which is basically xtol. I found that it matched the performance of xtol and I could not really see any difference in the use of it vis a vis Xtol itself. So, even if Kodak does not find another Chinese plant to produce xtol perhaps the small vendors will continue to provide it to us. Xtol 1:1 is my developer of choice when I'm not doing semi-stand development where I use HC110.
Talking of developers I recently went on an eco-friendly course for b&w using, of all things, moss as the key developing ingredient. Collect moss, 1/3volume to water, soak it for a couple of days, strain it (coffee filter cones) and use as any other developer. I did a bit of research to find other natural materials for developers and found out that pine needles have an even greater concentration of the active chemical, so I'm going to give this a bash after I run out of LC29
As Rodinal survived the break-up of Agfa, so would Xtol survive Kodak's complete withdrawal from selling photo chemistry. (They have not made chemistry directly for years.) As far as I know, Kodak has never published the formula for Xtol, however there are several formulas claiming to be the equivalent out there. There are other formulas primarily dependent on sodium acerbate which do an equal job. Fear not!
Here ya go: XTOL FORMULA FROM PATENT 85 g Sodium Sulfite 3.5 g Sodium Metabisulfite 12 g (Sodium) isoascorbate (Sodium Erythorbate) .2 g Dimezone S 4 g Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) Dimezone is phenidone. Sodium Ascorbate is just a buffered, neutral pH version of ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid with 47% of it's weight in sodium bicarbonated (baking soda) will give you the ascorbate.
Photo Systems, Inc. is now making Kodak chemicals. PSI, out of Michigan, also makes Unicolor color chemicals, and used to make and sell the Unicolor processing equipment. Hope they do well with this, they have been around, a long, long time.
and for some reason the oldest commercial bw developer, Rodinal still exist until today by different brands and names. some homebrewed rodinal also getting more popular. unlike Xtol that contain vitamin C, the homebrewed rodinal often used over the counter painkiller (paracetamol) and drain cleaner (Sodium hydroxide) as the main ingredients
So, the Ghost of Rochester continues to fade away? In the 1970's, I looked at making my own film developer and discovered Photographer's Formulary. Basic chemicals were used, and there were "Tablespoons and teaspoons" recipes for low-volume users. Nevertheless, I bought a triple beam balance scale and filter/coffee filters paper, harking back to the high school Chemistry lab. This led to the H&W Control Company, with specialized, mix-just-before-using film developers and Agfa Copex and Copex Pan Rapid microfilms. The century was about to turn, a new job completely discouraged photography, and I didn't quite see the Digital tidal wave pushing film photography into the history books. I haven't returned to film photography, where film expiration dates turned me toward now-affordable, high resolution digital photography. Write on and keep using film, oh Keeper of the Flame.;)
I liked xtol (1+1) and never had any sudden death problems with Xtol. Adox XT3 could be another source and as I got back to film, why not use some Xtol I still have (unopened bags from way back). I'm thinking of testing some diy vitamine-c developers (like FX-55). Do you mix D76 as warm mixture? I never have had any solubility problems when using room temperature water. I tend to mix developer a day before use but with with good agitation it dissolves pretty quickly too. (I like using a large beaker and magnetic stirrer just for convenience because I have one).
I have been using Adox FX-3 lately and find it a really interesting developer and I now have a decision to make as to whether I use Adox XT-3 or Adox Atomal as my primary developer. I also like Adox Fx-39 as the tonal range is rather nice but I end up with a grainer looking film so It is probably Adox XT-3 that I will adopt but then again it might be Adox Atomal.
I mixed my 5 ltrs. up and put into 1ltr. individual containers over 2 years ago. Stored them in a cool dark place and tested recently with a piece of film and it's still good to go.
FX-55 is a very nice Xtol option if you are up to compounding it. If you can access back issues of Darkroom Photography, there were some excellent articles which explored its performance and usage options.
@@randallstewart1224 I first thought you crazy because Crowley's work precedes Xtol by some 20 years. But I looked, and you are right, it uses ascorbic acid. But the formula for Xtol and a host of clones is well known, so in practical terms, FX-55 is a dud. But an interesting note to developer history, thanks.
As soon as B&H listed XTOL as discontinued I doubled my inventory. With any luck the 20 liters of I powder I have should last until kodak can get someone else to produce it.
My favorite and most used developer. My current batch was mixed in 7/2022 and still being used in replenishment process, just did 3 rolls last weekend. If you can prevent oxidation during storage, this stuff will last. I have little hope for Sino Promise, given the state of the businesses in China, and have used the Eco Pro brand in the past, with no issues.
I love Xtol, but the big batches are no bueno. These days I favor Black White and Green by Flic Film. Same active ingredient, but with the mix-on-use flexibilityand long shelf life of Rodinal. I use Flic Film for C41 too. Even though Kodak is having chem issues, at least there are still many alternatives. It will be more interesting to see what happens with the split-brain film manufacturing debacle.
Thank you for this link. I asked you a few days ago on your Patreon what dev's might be an adequate substitute for XTOL and you've now supplied me with the answer!!
Kodak has no more manufacturing capability. The equipment and buildings were sold off or leveled and Kodak is trying to sub contract with Chinese manufacturers. The isn’t working.
@@AzrielKnight but they have problems in QC, and at least one of their iso 100 color print films is being manufactured by a Chinese company and released under Kodak label and under a Fuji label.
I think we may be seeing the last 5-10 years of film photography. I am enjoying it while we have it, but admit, I have been selling off my film cameras which I don’t not use as much. I get the feeling that with Kodak the writing is on the wall. I think black and white film photography will be around for a while longer with Ilford, FOMA etc. Kodak could be forewarning us that the next 5 years is the final years for Kodak film products. Sometimes I question if it’s worth buying a new Leica M6 and spend over 6k for a camera that may be a paperweight within 10 years.
@@AzrielKnight In color, Kodak has invested too much for withdrawing. Fuji has made investments on their products for photofinishing, and not planning to withdraw (chemistry, paper). B&W scene is different, as there are much more small companies having the technology to make films, papers and chemistries. Ilford (Harman) is not planning to shut down in the near future. We have all heard these "trombones of the doomsday" preaching about the imminent demise of film for the last 25 years now. Not gonna happen.
Наука
Adox do a version of Xtol. XT-3
…1:1 copy with identical dev times.
Bellini eco film
I hear good things.
@@AzrielKnight At least in Europe, there are alternatives to Kodak products. Kodak had never such a grip on the film and photofinishing in Europe it once had in North America. Yes, its position was strong, but Fuji and the German Agfa (now defunct) had their share of the business. In B&W, Ilford should not be forgotten. Adox still produces much of chemistries according to the old Agfa recipes. They have also started to make their versions of Kodak´s powder developers, such as D-76 in addition to their version of XTOL. There is also Bellini Foto, which makes quality chemistry. I have used their E-6 kits since Fuji Hunt discontinued their 5 L kirs for E6. This is a good product in my opinion, but available only in 1L size. The other option would be Fuji, but it is available only in very big quantities, such as for 100 L of developer. Of course, there are the "CineStill powder kits", but these are nonstandard, simplified processes that cut somewhere for simplicity. Not the kind of chemistry I would opt for.
I've been using XTOL since it was announced. Over 25-years experience. IME, HP5+ in stock strength XTOL is an ISO 320 film (slower than box speed, not faster). XTOL produces finer grain than D76, but loses a tiny bit of sharpness. Stock XTOL will last at least a year in a full glass container (just used some last night). Also, XTOL patents have expired and ECO PRO developer is an equal formula, readily available, so Kodak's production problems are a non-issue. Hope this helps.
though the film resurgence continues, we shouldn't forget stuff like this can still happen. I believe Kodak can find a more stable manufacturer, but it's going to take time.
While I have several bags of Xtol waiting to be used, I did try legacyPro which is basically xtol. I found that it matched the performance of xtol and I could not really see any difference in the use of it vis a vis Xtol itself. So, even if Kodak does not find another Chinese plant to produce xtol perhaps the small vendors will continue to provide it to us. Xtol 1:1 is my developer of choice when I'm not doing semi-stand development where I use HC110.
Talking of developers I recently went on an eco-friendly course for b&w using, of all things, moss as the key developing ingredient. Collect moss, 1/3volume to water, soak it for a couple of days, strain it (coffee filter cones) and use as any other developer. I did a bit of research to find other natural materials for developers and found out that pine needles have an even greater concentration of the active chemical, so I'm going to give this a bash after I run out of LC29
As Rodinal survived the break-up of Agfa, so would Xtol survive Kodak's complete withdrawal from selling photo chemistry. (They have not made chemistry directly for years.) As far as I know, Kodak has never published the formula for Xtol, however there are several formulas claiming to be the equivalent out there. There are other formulas primarily dependent on sodium acerbate which do an equal job. Fear not!
Here ya go: XTOL FORMULA FROM PATENT
85 g Sodium Sulfite
3.5 g Sodium Metabisulfite
12 g (Sodium) isoascorbate (Sodium Erythorbate)
.2 g Dimezone S
4 g Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk)
Dimezone is phenidone. Sodium Ascorbate is just a buffered, neutral pH version of ascorbic acid. Ascorbic acid with 47% of it's weight in sodium bicarbonated (baking soda) will give you the ascorbate.
Photo Systems, Inc. is now making Kodak chemicals. PSI, out of Michigan, also makes Unicolor color chemicals, and used to make and sell the Unicolor processing equipment. Hope they do well with this, they have been around, a long, long time.
Thanks for the info Mike, fingers crossed!
and for some reason the oldest commercial bw developer, Rodinal still exist until today by different brands and names. some homebrewed rodinal also getting more popular. unlike Xtol that contain vitamin C, the homebrewed rodinal often used over the counter painkiller (paracetamol) and drain cleaner (Sodium hydroxide) as the main ingredients
So, the Ghost of Rochester continues to fade away? In the 1970's, I looked at making my own film developer and discovered Photographer's Formulary. Basic chemicals were used, and there were "Tablespoons and teaspoons" recipes for low-volume users. Nevertheless, I bought a triple beam balance scale and filter/coffee filters paper, harking back to the high school Chemistry lab. This led to the H&W Control Company, with specialized, mix-just-before-using film developers and Agfa Copex and Copex Pan Rapid microfilms. The century was about to turn, a new job completely discouraged photography, and I didn't quite see the Digital tidal wave pushing film photography into the history books. I haven't returned to film photography, where film expiration dates turned me toward now-affordable, high resolution digital photography. Write on and keep using film, oh Keeper of the Flame.;)
I liked xtol (1+1) and never had any sudden death problems with Xtol. Adox XT3 could be another source and as I got back to film, why not use some Xtol I still have (unopened bags from way back). I'm thinking of testing some diy vitamine-c developers (like FX-55).
Do you mix D76 as warm mixture? I never have had any solubility problems when using room temperature water. I tend to mix developer a day before use but with with good agitation it dissolves pretty quickly too. (I like using a large beaker and magnetic stirrer just for convenience because I have one).
I have been using Adox FX-3 lately and find it a really interesting developer and I now have a decision to make as to whether I use Adox XT-3 or Adox Atomal as my primary developer. I also like Adox Fx-39 as the tonal range is rather nice but I end up with a grainer looking film so It is probably Adox XT-3 that I will adopt but then again it might be Adox Atomal.
I mixed my 5 ltrs. up and put into 1ltr. individual containers over 2 years ago. Stored them in a cool dark place and tested recently with a piece of film and it's still good to go.
Great idea!
Yeah, expiry dates are often just CYA. Not coincidentally, they sell more developer. Same with food dating.
to clarify, Kodak is "committed" to film until 2029. Then it's anyone's guess.
Fingers crossed I guess.
I love XTOL. I usually fill 5 1L bottles to the brim and use one at a time until it’s exhausted and then move to the next. They last for months.
I have one packet I'm holding on to for the time being...
Great vid! Anothet sort of Xtol alternative is FX-55, by Crowley, which I've really been meaning to prepare myself for a while now.
FX-55 is a very nice Xtol option if you are up to compounding it. If you can access back issues of Darkroom Photography, there were some excellent articles which explored its performance and usage options.
@randallstewart1224 Thanks for the tip! Do you remember which issues?
@@randallstewart1224 I first thought you crazy because Crowley's work precedes Xtol by some 20 years. But I looked, and you are right, it uses ascorbic acid. But the formula for Xtol and a host of clones is well known, so in practical terms, FX-55 is a dud. But an interesting note to developer history, thanks.
They'll never take my Caffinol away!
Doesn't that use vitamin C as well?
Thanks for the info on x-tol.
I hope that they get their chemical manufacturing back in order as I enjoy using d76 as my main bw developer!
As soon as B&H listed XTOL as discontinued I doubled my inventory. With any luck the 20 liters of I powder I have should last until kodak can get someone else to produce it.
My favorite and most used developer. My current batch was mixed in 7/2022 and still being used in replenishment process, just did 3 rolls last weekend. If you can prevent oxidation during storage, this stuff will last. I have little hope for Sino Promise, given the state of the businesses in China, and have used the Eco Pro brand in the past, with no issues.
mythol is alternative for xtol with easy ingridients
I love Xtol, but the big batches are no bueno. These days I favor Black White and Green by Flic Film. Same active ingredient, but with the mix-on-use flexibilityand long shelf life of Rodinal. I use Flic Film for C41 too.
Even though Kodak is having chem issues, at least there are still many alternatives. It will be more interesting to see what happens with the split-brain film manufacturing debacle.
5L is a lot, I've considered pouring into several smaller bottles to extend its life.
It's still available as "clones" by Adox (XT-3) and Fomadon Excel.
And Adox is amazing
I might be jumping the gun, but could you post that Reddit link?
Omg thanks for the reminder!
Thank you for this link. I asked you a few days ago on your Patreon what dev's might be an adequate substitute for XTOL and you've now supplied me with the answer!!
Kodak has no more manufacturing capability. The equipment and buildings were sold off or leveled and Kodak is trying to sub contract with Chinese manufacturers. The isn’t working.
I think they found a new source for their chemistry.
@@AzrielKnight but they have problems in QC, and at least one of their iso 100 color print films is being manufactured by a Chinese company and released under Kodak label and under a Fuji label.
I think we may be seeing the last 5-10 years of film photography. I am enjoying it while we have it, but admit, I have been selling off my film cameras which I don’t not use as much. I get the feeling that with Kodak the writing is on the wall. I think black and white film photography will be around for a while longer with Ilford, FOMA etc. Kodak could be forewarning us that the next 5 years is the final years for Kodak film products. Sometimes I question if it’s worth buying a new Leica M6 and spend over 6k for a camera that may be a paperweight within 10 years.
I think there are too many smaller companies working at it for it to die.
@@AzrielKnight In color, Kodak has invested too much for withdrawing. Fuji has made investments on their products for photofinishing, and not planning to withdraw (chemistry, paper). B&W scene is different, as there are much more small companies having the technology to make films, papers and chemistries. Ilford (Harman) is not planning to shut down in the near future. We have all heard these "trombones of the doomsday" preaching about the imminent demise of film for the last 25 years now. Not gonna happen.