RDWorks Learning Lab 16 Laser Power LossTests
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- If you own a Chinese laser cutter this little series of videos about me learning how to use the free software provided, may solve the problem of trying to learn from a virtually unreadable manual.
I am nothing to do with RD Works, I am not an instructor and I am no expert. This series will document the essential bits of many hours of trial and error
Russ,
Just to post this into the right place....
But I did some tests with my, supposedly the same machine, and I can not cut even 4mm plywood. The plywood I'm using is marine plywood, so it could be made of harder wood. I'm not sure but I don't think that would explain why I can't cut even half the depth that you can.
Strangely I can cut 3mm plywood, without any problems, at 65% power and around 15mm/sec
I can cut 4mm MDF at about 65% power 10mm/sec
What seems to happen with cutting wood, is at a certain cut off point, the cut almost seems to be self sealing with carbon, which absorbs all the laser energy, and to all intents and purposes it doesn't really matter how slow the I set the speed, I can't get through, as it just increases the area of carbon around the cut line.
I'm sure there is a technical explanation for this, but I'm not sure what it is.
Anyway, I'm waiting with baited breath for my 38mm lens to see if it gives the cutter the god like abilities of yours ;-)
From my info that is about specific of CO2 lasers and gas that is inside. it needs time after long cut to recycle gas to right state. So with long cut gas degradation is more and there is power loss. After sometime gas regenerates and you gain back power...
+MNO
Hi
When I did this work I was ignorant of how my tube worked. I was trying to find a pattern of power loss . A few months later after a lot of research I discovered exactly why my tube behaved the way it did. If you haven't been there yet you might like to visit the 3 part video starting at ruclips.net/video/6onXMU08GzQ/видео.html
Best regards
Russ
I think the PowerSupply is workink at its upper limit, getting overheating due to long working time
When the PowerSupply get hot it will reduce the output power and then cool down a little.
Have youthe option to log the temperature of the semiconductors on the PC-board?
Maybe to add more heat exchange to the PC-bord will help.
Well, 5 years after your test, you may already find the answear in one later video you have done.
I was very naive when I bought this machine and with no advice on WWW to guide me I had no idea of the tricks the Chinese play with these machine. The tubes fitted to Ebay machines are B grade tubes that have failed final test at one of the big tube manufacturers. They are bought for next to nothing , retested to make sure they work "in some way", relabeled to give them credibility then are fitted to ebay machines The machinesare container shipped to various local warehouses around the world and a team of PRIVATE ebay sellers in China sell them to you from the kitchen in China for commission from the manufacturer That makes any promised support/warranty worthless because if you are savvy enough to spot the problems then the buyer will disappear once he has his commission. I fought with the tube for a while and then bought a new tube from ebay. BAD MOVE. It was another B grade tube. I ultimately had to do some research and bought a new power supply to match the A grade tube that I purchased. I subsequently found out that I had a B grade power supply as well as a B grade tube, My new tube and power supply have been working perfectly for more than 4 years now and are still performing as new, I subsequently worked out as I acquired more knowledge , that the B grade power supply was randomly switching the output mA from what ever working current I had chosen down to about 3 or 4mA. ( the preionization zone) which is why it was whistling/hissing). With so much worldwide correspondence I quickly get to see pattern in the problems
Best wishes
Russ
my machine is new...i am getting constantly getting
system overcharged after 15 minutes of cutting 3mm acrylic...can you help me please..
I am having the same problem, with a cut of six pieces it will cut the first few nicely then taper off to not even stain the back side then on the last piece the power is back nearly to what it was with the first cut but they not even close to each other on the board.
+Mentorcase
If you look at the latest video about working with paper you will see that I was using my dodgy machine at 15 and 18% power setting. It performed flawlessly hour after hour. It was a bit puzzling. I have carried out some more tests that will be published in the next day or so where I use some very basic techniques to establish what the actual power output is. I found that at 50% power my machine worked reliably (outputting on average about 20watts) but push it up to 70% and the power output actually drps to less than 10 watts! Try running yours at low wattages.
hi thank you for information i have a Question please
if i upgrade my Laser from 30 W to 100 W what Vendor Tools in Laser TAB i need to Configure Because after upgrading my Machine to 100W it still work like 30W Laser
and Thank you .
Hi Fatehy
Your laser vendor settings should be for glass tube with 0 attenuation. The min power can be 1% and Max power 99% Laser frequency should be 20kHz and signal level LOW (to switch the tube on). It is very unlikely these will be set wrong and your new 100 watt tube will not be affected by these settings unlee max power is set very low.
Do you have an ammeter fitted to your machine? Did you upgrade your power supply to100 watts also? where did you buy your tube and power supply?
Best wishes
Russ
Hello Russ. My laser just stopped working for me while I was producing a job. It just stopped firing. I checked the tube while pressing the firing/testing button, but there was no red light occurring inside the tube. The water flow sensor is working well as I checked this first seeing that I had a problem months ago with my water pump cutting out and the the tube not firing. I also checked the power supply and the fan is still working. Is there any way of me checking to see what could be causing this problem? I'm thinking about replacing all the electrical guts in the machine along with a new laser tube to get her back up and running.
Hi Brian
Unless the tube is mechanically damaged in some way it will not just drop dead. Even when it runs out of CO2 and delivers no power it will still have a pink glow of ionized nitrogen in the tube. Without going into detail about the physics of how the tube works, the pink glow is NOT the laser beam it is the engine that creates the invisible laser beam.. When a machine stops working instantly it is 99.9% certain to be a failed HV power supply. Although most people think the tube is the most vulnerable part of the machine from tall the correspondence like yours, I can assure you that the most likely item to fail is the HV power supply. Within the power supply there are one or more specia transformers that create the very high voltage required to ionize the nitrogen. The fact you have no pink glow tells me that your power supply is not generating that high voltage.. You will not need a new tube because a failed power supply will not have damaged the tube. . If the tube was working well before the sudden stop then it will work again after you renew the HV power supply.
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia Hi Russ. Thanks for your reply...welcoming it was to know that it is more likely to be the power supply rather the laser tube itself. Maybe I should not be asking you this, but seeing that your knowledge and experience far outweighs mine, do you happen to know of a reputable retailer who may have these power supplies? Seeing that you have repaired/replaced and probably revitalised your laser with new parts I assume that you may have a contact of reputable character with whom I might be able to do business. I would prefer a company in the United States seeing that I have family living there to whom I may have the item shipped, but if your contact is only in China, well, beggars can't be choosers. I look forward to your reply with regards to a contact name, number or email address. You may reply to email address as this is one area I check constantly and the information will be stored there safely for future reference. Thank you so very much
@@brianserrao2331
Hi Brian
I have established one trusted contact in China that is absolutely honest and straight with his business dealings and understands the western meaning of customer service. The fact that he has a Chinese website sounds like bad news for you. See www.cloudraylaser.com/
BUT the good news is that he is trying to establish a western presence and so you will be pleased to find him also at
www.amazon.com/s?i=merchant-items&me=A2M1Y79D9F74M8
The prices will be different because you are buying from Amazon with Amazon's commission added plus any shipping if it seem to be free.
Best wishes
Russ
Hello friend, I have a problem with my POWER, it is all well connected between board and power supply, I have my a 0-5V activation on the PWM pin of the power supply but when I shoot 5V the source does not deliver more than 29kv and 5mah. Do you have any idea where the problem is? I have power supply RECI P14 and main board with rdworks
Hi Sebastian
29kv is ample to trigger as high as 130 watt tube but Reci play safe and say 100watts.
Here is a typical connection diagram
www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Reci-laser-co2-power-supply-P14_60637980483.html?spm=a2700.7724857.main07.1.1a6a4e3amumi2m
The key links between the Ruida controller and the HVpower supply are on the 6 way connector The PWM or Analoge go to IN. The L1 goes to L and GND links to G. The L controls the beam ON/OFF and the IN controls the current flow through the tube. The water protect is usually done at the controller end thus the WP is linked to G on the HV power supply. The other connections are all to do with the display on the power supply
If there is a glow of any sort in the tube then the power supply is doing its job and has enough voltage available to trigger ionization of the nitrogen in the gas mix.. When the current flow is VERY low, maybe 3 or 4 mA there will be a glow at each end of the tube . As you increase the current flow the two ends will eventually meet in the middle. This low current phase is called preioniztion and may exist even when the the beam meets in the middle as a hazy wisp. Maybe at 6 or 7mA the beam characteristic will become much more solid and pinky mauve. You are now into the steady state phase that should continue up to 25mA. Reci do not recommend any of their tubes to run over 25mA if you want to achieve the claimed service life.
My first reaction would be to prove if the instrumentation is telling the truth. Remove the lens. Put a tray of water under the head about 200mm to 300 below. Set up a simple test program of say a 25mm circle and set the speed to 1mm/sec. Now set the program power to 10% and examine the beam in the tube for the conditions I described above.. Repeat the test with a 1% power increase until you get a solid pink beam then step up in 10% increments. as you get to 60% and above I would expect to see steam rising from the water. Increasing steam indicates increasing power, regardless of what the meter shows. .
If that appears to be successful then replace the water tray with a piece of 5mm or 6mm acrylic. Draw lines on the acrylic at say 50mm/sec but for increasing powers in 10% increments. The surface groove should get deeper and deeper as you increase the power.
If you can prove you have the power there , then it will be a matter of sorting the instrumentation connections to reflect what is really going on.
If you have those 2 key wires from the controller correct (L and IN) and you are truly down on power, then it can only be a power supply issue.
Hope this (and the simple tests) helps to clarify your thoughts
All best wishes
Russ
Thanks for you answer Russ, i try with water test and tell you the result. Sebastian
So the core problem is where sir ... I have the exact same problem as yours ... what should I do to fix this problem ... Please help
Hoi Roy
At this point in my learning journey I was still very naive about how corrupt the Chinese laser business was (and still is). I bought what I thought was a 50 watt laser. It turned out to be an 800 mm long 40 watt tube that was also a B grade tube and in reality delivered 30 watts for a few minutes and then lost power. I eventually gave up on this tube and bought a replacement. from Ebay. Bad mistake because I replaced junk with junk. and It was not until I upgraded to 60 watts with an A grade tube and new power supply that my machine became a proper machine. Here we are 5 years on and that tube is still performing as new.. It will be worth the money because the tube you bought with the machine is a reject tube from a large manufacturer that could not be warranted.
It is almost certain that your HV power supply is qually B grade so I am afraid it will cost you money to get A grade replacements.. Do not buy fron Ebay or Amazon market place or the sharks will eat you alive. One 100% trusted source for spares is cloudraylaser.com. If your buying new , this is the right time to swallow hard and decide if you want to rplace like for like or upgrade to 60 or 80 watts. Let me know and I will advise on the options.
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia my machine uses reci brand laser tube ... 100 watts ... and indeed there is a written label ... power supply uses 100 watts ... and uses ruida ... and RD Work v8 for the software..
I uses wather chiller CW5200 for cooling system machine..
like what I saw in your video ... the beginning is good it can cut ... but over time it can't ... So the conclusion is there is a solution? besides having to buy new spare parts ??
my machine has only been used for 4 months ... and rarely operates ...
Maybe others can help me for this comdition?
@@roytjandra2554
Hi Roy
I have no doubt that you have genuine Reci tube but Reci do the same with their rejects tubes, they sell them cheaply to machine builders with no warranty. Is this a W2 model which will be claimed as a 100 watt tube but in reality is a 75 to 80 watt tube when A grade. The clue to it being B grade will be in the graph and numbers on the tube. The max (peak) test watts for a W2 MUST exceed 100 watts or it fails . For a W4 the value is 130watts. If your graph exceeds these values then you have an A grade tube. If the max value is low, there could be any number of faults with the tube. Stand a piece of card in front of mirror 1 so that it is 90 degrees to the beam (not 45 degrees) and put a low power (maybe 20%) scorch mark onto the card. Run the machine until you lose power and repeat the test. My guess is that now you will either see 2 or 4 dots.?
Despite their name, Reci do not make the best tubes, just the most over specified and overpriced tubes.
Let me know what you find.
Best wishes
Russ
what is the wattage of your laser ? im thinking of getting the 130 watt thunder laser machine ?
+Jay Kay
I bought a 50 watt laser off Ebay. The machine is mechanically good but the tube was only a 40 watt tube. How was I to know? We have no means of checking and no one was warning of the scams that are going on with these machines and tubes on Ebay. I think you will be safe with Thunder Laser they have a good reputation. 130 watts is a powerful beast that will probably just about etch metal surfaces as well as cut through thick materials (15 to 20mm acrylic I'm guessing).
www.cncoletech.cn/Laser%20tuber%20high%20power.html
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-pcs-Of-High-Quality-1650MM-Length-Long-Lifetime-130W-Co2-Laser-Tube-Warranty-6-Months/321243_1794596115.html
www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/fc9181e93b448cac013b44f673270de5.htm
It will be worth contacting Thunder laser and getting written confirmation that this is a working 130 watt tube and not a max rated 130 watts
Your Mars machine width is 1850mm. Of the three reputable tube manufacturers above, two of the 130 watt tubes will fit that frame. If fitted with a Cole tube then it will be a 100 watt tube. The thunder laser spec says 100 -130watts. What does that actually mean? For example the Cole 130 watt is not clearly specified whereas Reci are being honest. Their 100 watt tube is a 100/130 watt tube. What that means is that yes. it will develop 130 watts if you over drive it, but at the recommended max drive current (maybe 30mA?) it will develop 100 watts. Just be suspicious because you are spending a lot of money. Find out what brand and tube/ part number will be fitted to your machine and check it out . Despite their good reputation your 130 watt dream may not be what it seems.
Good luck
Russ
i really appreciate your time and help ill keep all that in mind and i ll let you know how s my business will go i haven't start yet im waiting for the machine so wish me luck
sorry i am getting system overvoltage...how can i fix this?
Hi Fahyaze
I do not understand your problem. I dont know where or how you can get over voltage. Please explain more.
Best wishes
Russ
hello russ...may i have an email i can contact you?
i known its late but your water wasn't flowing
Hi Norm
Without water flow the tube would overheat and pop within a few seconds. I use distilled water and there are no bubbles in the water to indicate flow. The good news is that the system is protected by a flow switch that prevents the laser from firing if there is no flow. This was very early in my learning journey and I had no ability to measure watts of power output. I sensed there wss something very wrong with the tube but was trying different ways to prove it without a power meter. I did eventually find out what the problem was with this tube. All ebay machines are supplied with B grade tubes that work in some way.......... enough to fool the technically naive Ebay buyer. As the series progresses, the story will unfold.
Thanks for your concern
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia in the video there was bubbles but they were not moving when you did the "Mode burn" by the laser tube. Unless I'm seeing things.
@@normcaissie5598 Hi Norm
Panic not,. there are microbubbles that often stick to the inside of the tube and will not be easily moved by the relatively low velocity of the water flow. It was very observant of you, but in 4 years with 2 tubes I have never had a water problem. Even quite big bubbles can exist in the tube and not cause overheating. However, I am a believer in keeping them to an absolute minimum but not stressing over a few.
Thanks again for the comment.
Best wishes
Russ