I also like in this episode is that Dr. Crusher reports her strange feelings, AND that the crew takes it serious. Too often in sci-fi or tv in general, characters brush these things off or are not taken seriously, so that a plot can happen. Here on the other hand, the crew has t so much trust in each other. Love it.
Yes, throughout the show I've noticed certainly the senior staff trust both each other and the reports from the rest of the crew unless and until they feel there's reason and evidence to question it, and their conduct gets applied to the rest of the general crew as well. There *is* Worf, of course, but even in his cases, it's not a matter of not trusting his perceptions or information, but usually making a command decision to favor diplomacy, exploration, and information-gathering over a purely security-minded defensive posture.
Particularly Picard. No matter how crazy their request, or what they were asking he always trusted them implicitly. Many times, based merely on the story a crew member told him, he would raise the alert level, or stop the enterprise and carry out a diagnostic. He would even change his orders based on what Gainen advised him. There were too many shows back then where no ever believed the protagonist, despite having close relationships, until it was too late. So, it was refreshing back then to see the crew so competent, and excel individually and as a team.
I know this isn't really what the episode was about, but I liked when Dr. Crusher moved her glass, so she wouldn't break it, and she ended up breaking it anyway. It makes me wonder about things that are "supposed" to happen, and you can't change them.
Star Trek pretty explicitly has Fate as a force in the universe that keeps events vaguely in the same shape. My pet theory is that fate *evolved* - any species without Fate gets butterflied out of existence by time travel.
That glass breaking after she put it away scene is a rare occurence of what seems to be a combination of Red Herring and Chekov's Gun at the same time. At first glance, it seems to indicate that despite all efforts, what's gonna happen can't be changed. However, when you examine it more closely, it proves precisely that it CAN be changed, because that's not HOW the glass broke the other times AT ALL. This in turn forshadows the destruction of the Enterprise as also preventable.
When this episode first aired, it was a real shocker to see Kelsey Grammer sitting in The Center Seat as Captain Bateson, just as it was to see Stephen Root in 'Unification' as the Klingon Captain K'vada. So many A-List stars on TNG, and many of them were in the midst of starring on their own popular Shows when they made these Guest appearances.
@@DrummingWriterTrekfan84 And when asked why they wanted to be on a weekly, syndicated TV show, everyone said the same thing; "Because, it's... Star Trek!"
Love this episode. Another detail I like which doesn't come across when streaming - the Enterprise blows up at the beginning of each commercial break and it resets when you come back.
The uniforms are from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. Originally the idea was to have the bridge of the U.S.S. Bozeman be a little reunion. Kelsey Grammer from Cheers plays the captain of the U.S.S. Bozeman and they wanted his executive officer to be Lt. Saavik (from Star Trek II, III, and IV) who in Star Trek II was played by his Cheers co-star Kirstie Alley. Alley wasn't available unfortunately. The name of the Bozeman is also a recurring in-joke. Bozeman, Montana is the hometown of Star Trek writer-producer Brannon Braga (co-creator of Enterprise) and is later the site of Zephram Cochrane's warp ship launch facility in Star Trek: First Contact.
Kirsty Alley didn't play Savik in ST 3 or 4 that was Robin Curtis. They tried to get her back for 6 but she said No and so they renamed the character Valaris. It would have made Spocks comment that she was meant to succeed him on the Enterprise make more sense and the betrayal more powerful
@@Calzaki I didn't say she played her in Star Trek III or IV. I said the character appeared in Star Treks II, III, and IV and in II was played by Alley. Incidently, they tried to get her back for ST III as well but she wanted far too much money; ironic considering how lucky she was to get the role in the first place. She's admitted that she lied to them about her acting experience and you'd think someone who only got the job through deceit would be a little less likely to give up that job with unrealistic salary demands. Then again, she is a scientologist and has made plenty of statements recently that point to her phaser not firing on all settings.
Fun fact: A ship named Bozeman later returns twice. First it's mentioned by Data in "Generations" altering it's course due to the Nexus and second we hear some confirmation from the ship via Starfleet intercom during the battle with the Borg cube in "First Contact".
I watched this episode when it aired (1992). Me and some friends thought the television station airing it made a mistake by airing the same scenes over and over. We didn't have DVR technology or chat room/ social media sites back then to compare or review what we were watching. It was after the third commercial break that we realized the ship was in some sort of time loop. I was videotaping it at the time, so when the episode ended I rewatched it several times to finally notice the subtle differences in the scenes. From there I realized "Cause and Effect" will go down as one of TNG's best episodes.
The Enterprise is about to explode. Paula and Katrina discussing Ro's new hairstyle. Love you guys!🖖 5 card stud was the poker game and you see versions of those uniforms in Yesterday's Enterprise and when Wesley sees the Holodeck message from his father. Bebe Neuwirth, who is in an earlier episode, and Kelsey Grammer were both shooting Cheers on the same lot that TNG was shooting and that's how they got the guest roles. Loved this time loop episode. A year before Groundhog Day came out.
Wow this is a Mandela effect thing for me, I swore for over 30 years it was 7 card stud but you're right! 7 card stud was the most popular form until Texas hold'em became popular in the late 90's early 2000's.
my reaction to "what are they playing?" was an intentionally crankyoldman "it's just POKER, none of this newfangled variant crap" haha. even if not actually the most popular a lot of the time, 5 stud was just the core default for so long, until the world went crazy for Hold 'em
I love how they deal with the time loop in this episode. When I first saw this episode, I was worried it would get boring since basically the same events happen over and over, but every loop is just different enough from the previous loop to keep the episode interesting. Such a great episode.
This episode has one of my favorite Star Trek isms. "I'm not imagining things/crazy, *reality* has been changed!" the rest of the crew... "ok. let's go to work."
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite episode of TNG. It was well-paced, well-acted (I mean, Picard's reaction when he hears *himself* order "Abandon ship!".... **chef's kiss**), and was really entertaining. Fun little tidbit: this episode aired on March 23, 1992, about 10 1/2 *months* before "Groundhog Day". Just felt the need to point that out, for some threeson....
One of my top 5 episodes! I love this episode and is probably one of the things that created a lifelong LOVE of time travel, time loop,etc kind of genre in me
Any time travel episode is a great episode, but this one really is high at the top of the list of TNG time traveling episodes! It had such a great concept that other non-star Trek shows, such as Family Guy and others, have referenced the expression "Temporal Causality loop".
Back when this episode first aired, I remember watching this withy dad and being so scared watching the Enterprise exploding, I would always cover my eyes haha.
I know I seem to say this with every episode but this is definitely one of my all-time favourite episodes. The teaser is certainly one of the best and most-shocking in all of Trek. Jonathan Frakes once again proves how great of a director he is. As you pointed out, he keeps every loop unique and different in all kinds of ways. Anyway, it was awesome seeing Kelsey Grammar having a cameo as Captain Bateson. He was more well-known at the time for playing Doctor Frasier Crane in the sitcom "Cheers". A few trivia tidbits: the Bozeman uniforms are from "Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan" onwards. The computer graphics on the Bridge are the same as the ones from "Star Trek 5" onwards. Also, the Bozeman is mentioned twice in the movies. Once in "Star Trek: Generations" and once in "Star Trek: First Contact". Captain Bateson himself is heard giving a simple "Acknowledged" to a communication order near the start of "First Contact". Finally, there's a novel prequel to "First Contact" starring Captain Bateson as the original candidate for the captaincy of the newly-built Enterprise-E, although obviously it eventually goes to Picard again.
The acknowledged in First Contact was the Defiant. Also in Beta cannon the Soyuz class Bozeman was retired and replaced with a Sovereign class Bozeman which was commanded by Bateson. A Soyuz class in a fight like they had in First Contact would be a suicide mission
"Oh, for god's sakes, this story is still going around?" Yeah, it boggles my mind. Seems to have sprung up late anyway, back then nobody assumed that it is the same ship. Why should Enterprise, Saratoga and Defiant be the only names to be reused? Similarly to some people whining about "if you don't know DS9, you would be confused by Worf being on the Defiant"... Really? You would? Like you were confused about Chekov being on the Reliant?
Yeah, this is one of my favorite eps. I can watch it.. over and over again.. Though I always found Data's "3" signal so speculative. Because Data himself is the 2nd Officer and 3rd in rank on the ship, so "3" could have just as easily indicated him while Riker might be "2". Or Riker, being 1st Officer, might be "1" ("Number One"), while Data could be "2".
Data realized Picard was going with his suggestion but they were stuck. Combine that with Riker's 3 (and there are 3 main shuttlebays) and he made the leap to choose the other option.
The episode became the basis for a couple of meme areas; one has Laforge mentioning they could have been stuck in the loop for an unknown amount of times, the other has Grammer doing a Frasier-style conversation while in the captain's chair.
You were close on the 2278 uniforms, Paula. These uniforms are actually first seen in Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. In the prime Star Trek universe, these uniforms remained relatively unchanged until sometime in the 2350's when Starfleet changes over to what we see in Encounter At Farpoint.
We have seen that new uniforms are changed in stages, introduced on space stations, academy cadets, science vessels, the admiralty, etc. Perhaps the Bozeman was chosen as one of the tryouts for the "monster maroon" uniform or maybe just officers on ships and not NCO's/crewmen (like in TWOK).
'Star Trek: The Motion Picture' had the best uniforms, though. I guess they used the 'Wrath of Khan' uniforms for the episode because they're more iconic. But this means that the 'Motion Picture' uniforms were very short lived in the Star Trek universe. A shame.
11:50 the outfits are actually those of the previous century, in the Star Trek timeline. Katrina, you will see those uniforms in the movies - beginning with Star Trek II - that are set in that period of time (starring Kirk and his guys).
Yes, the used this uniforms since Star Trek II (one of the best Star Trek Movies with probably the best villain), fans actually didn't like the uniforms of the first Star Trek movie, therefore the changed it for Star Trek II.
@@smartfox2295 was there anything about the first movie anyone liked? Personally I wish they'd used the unused uniform designs from Generations (movie) which were going to be a cross between TNG season 3-7 and TOS Movies (You can still find concept art online... The coloured jackets but with pull across wraps and shoulder pins and undershorts also reminiscent of late DS9... They would have tied the two time periods together nicely
@@silkwesir1444 Sorry, for the late reply but yes i would say these are the major things that were good on the movie and i have to admit that the movie grew on me over time. And i always find new things out about it like the fact that the klingon commander in the beginning of the movie was played by Mark Lenard who of course also played Spock's father Sarek.
The way Picard reacts when Crusher tells him she heard voices, pulls back almost defensively... Kinda a cross between "ok weirdo", "Well it's not the craziest thing i've heard from you" and "Well it certainly wasn't me hiding in your closet watching you sleep."
I saw it more as surprise followed by concern. He still took her seriously, as he did for all his crew whatever crazy stories they told him. That’s one of things I loved about this show.
Paula showing us how an introverted nerd- if she is - can seem like an extrovert as she gets more hyper and intense talking about something that she finds genuinely fascinating. If I ever met her we'd probably be talking over each other with excitement. lol
s5e18 of TNG premiered in March 1992. Groundhog Day principal photography began March 1992. Five days after the air date. :P Who out groundhog'd who? But the idea was formulated a few years before. I wonder if the Groundhog Day director Harold Ramis watched this and went... Oh. Come. On!?! :)
Also the Bozeman needing to make a course correction after a star is destroyed is how Picard and Data figure out Soren’s plan in Star Trek: Generations.
In all likelihood not the same ship. There have been more than one Enterprise, more than one Saratoga, more than one Defiant. Why should for some reason Bozeman be a name used only once?
The general consensus is that the Bozeman flew through a time rift to 90 years in the future, collided with the Enterprise, and then the huge explosion next to the time rift made it go wonky and caused it to form a time loop. So both the Enterprise and Bozeman were looping the Bozeman's emergence from the rift for 17 days.
When this originally aired, the opening showed the Enterprise blow up, then we heard the intro: "Space, the final frontier: these are the voyages of the starship Enterprise...", and I thought "based on what we just saw, shouldn't that be '... these WERE the voyages of the starship Enterprise'?" A few days later I learned that a few of my friends had used this episode to try to play a "Star Trek drinking game" that had been shared over e-mail, mostly as a joke. They didn't get very far, because the last instruction in the game was "If the Enterprise blows up, finish off the keg".
couple other episodes I can think of where that'd really do you in haha. in fact, given that time travel is almost guarantEED to get involved if the ship blows up, that rule is very predisposed to extreme spikes in incidence!
@@jerodast Yes, I can also think of a few other episodes where we see the Enterprise blow up. But is there any other where it blows up this many times in one episode?
I love how the episode caught some of the creepy vibes of deja vu. That close up of Riker "you're going to call my bluff" was unexpected to the point I was like 😲 But I hated seeing my space lambs in such distress. Esp Picard calling all hands to abadon sh-- 😞 I YEET that timeline.
To date this has been the only appearance of a Soyuz Class Starship. If it looks familiar, it would because of another class known as the Miranda Class was used in periodically in Trek projects. It was too expensive to make an entirely new class model so the Miranda Class model was given some nifty sensor pods thus making this an entirely new class of ship!
This was always one of my favorite episodes of the whole series, such a cool concept, but beyond that, what it really highlights is how Picard always, in pretty much every episode, values Data's recommendations above anyone else's (and Worf is always at the bottom of that list, as we all know). I like this fact, because I like Data, and I like when Data gets to show off just how smart and quick-thinking he is, and I appreciate that Picard also recognizes this quality. Picard usually doesn't need that much convincing. But, as we see here, Data isn't infallible.
TNG had the best ones, pretty much, because it was basically a rule on TNG that the writers couldn't write time travel stories. They'd done too many with TOS, the producers felt, and it was becoming cliche in scifi in general. That's why you don't see the standard "crew from the Enterprise goes back in time on Earth and meets people from current broadcast year" thing on TNG, and even if any members of the crew do travel through time, there's always some kind of twist to it. Lots of time loops, time-traveling con men, time skips that turn out to be elaborate deceptions, a past version of the Enterprise changes the timeline, etc., and our crew are, for the most part, in the present, dealing with whatever's going on. Even the most cliche time travel episode in TNG has a pretty unique twist on it, but we're not there yet. DS9 threw out the rule, although they still had a couple clever episodes. VOY also went pretty cliche with it a bunch, but managed a couple interesting takes.
One of my favs! I'm an old crusty who saw all this at the time but I love how you seem to get everything! All the nuances of characters etc. Good Work!
I think the 2nd ship was in a shorter loop. Their loop is that they exited the time distortion and struck the Enterprise over and over. The time distortion made them travel 90 years into the future.
my theory was always they WERE stuck in a loop for 90 years, but until 17 days ago their loop was LITERALLY the same, and it was only the interaction of the two ships that caused the buildup of weird echoes that allowed the Enterprise to figure it out. of course this is pure headcanon, its all too made up to say any version is really "right" :)
@@jerodastI don’t know why they would have been in a loop before 17 days ago considering the explosion of the warp core creates the loop. I think they traveled 90 years in the future through the rift only to immediately run into the enterprise and start looping, also for 17 days.
The second time I saw this episode, was with my father and brother. I had to stop them from changing the channel because they thought the TV station was having technical difficulties and the episode just kept starting over from the beginning.
"Es gibt Leute, die haben sich schon totgemischt." - "Nur durch gründliches Mischen wird der Verdacht des Falschspielens ausgeräumt." - "Das hoffe ich sehr..." totally burned into my memory
Red Letter Media owns the exploded Enterprise D model used in this episode (among other props from the show as Mike and Rich are huge TNG fans). They showed it off in one of their videos two weeks ago but I can't link it here because my comment gets auto-deleted if I do.
Technically the Bozeman was trapped in the causality loop for the same amount of time as the Enterprise. Each time the loop reset, The Bozeman would start it's point in the time loop 90 years in the past leading up to when it encountered the Spatial distortion, then entering and exiting the Phenomenon 90 years later and colliding with the Enterprise-D and destroying her which reset the loop repeating the process. (Try to wrap your brain around that one. Just thinking about it gives me a headache. LOL!)
For more on this story, check out the ST:TNG novel “Ship of the Line” by Diane Carey. In her backstory, the ship at the end (the Bozeman) has come through a space-time rift 90 years into the future, rather than being stuck in the causality loop for 90 years. She does a good job portraying the sudden grief that that ship’s captain feels when he realizes that he and his crew have permanently disappeared from their families that are left in 2278.
girls I wanted to ask are you planning to start watching deep space nine simultaneously with the beginning of tng’s 6th season (because chronologically they are set in the same time) or after you finish tng completely?
They should defiantly do it together as that way they'll know who their meeting in episodes like Birthright or that other episode where Quark cameos. The Maquis set up will work better too. Then when TNG finishes sub in out with Voyager, although it might just be DS9 fanboying but VOY doesn't hold a candle
For a time loop episode, considering when this was done, it's very good. Now, it's like how quickly Katrina knew what was happening, because it's been done so often. I forget what was the 1st time loop story ever I saw, but this was early on.
Kelsey Grammar (Frasier ) as the captain and the female first officer was originally going to be Savik the Vulcan from Star Trek 2 . The actress wasn’t interested in doing it.
Although the film "First Contact" might contradict that, as the Bozeman is one of the ships that faces the Borg in the beginning (not seen, but referenced in the audio.)
@@albertmartinez2539 I recall the book set that up as a newer USS Bozeman that Bateson moved some of his crew onto. Although the TNG finale also mentions the Bozeman, presumably not a new one yet?
I think the events are nearer what would be described as a do-loop, varying from the exact repeats that typify a time loop in that there are progressive differences to each succeeding sequence. That was a neat surprise having Kelsey Grammer as the captain of the Bozeman at the end.
Did you recognize Frasier? Kelsey Grammer is a Trek fan and was thrilled to play a starship captain. When I first saw this, I went and got the phone book to call the TV station to tell them they were repeating.
If the Enterprise crew is facing severe deja vu after only seventeen days, I imagine the crew of the Bozeman would be stark raving mad after having experienced it for almost a century. Yet they seem pretty composed and curious about what's happened. So I'm going with the they've just traveled now theory as opposed to having spent over ninety years reliving the same day.
you're never safe aboard a Miranda class. time loops on the Bozeman, abductions by guerrilla fighters on the Reliant, mass hysteria on the Brattain, assimilated on the Saratoga, blown to bits on the Majestic.... might as well accept your fate and keep it cool.
@@bcn1gh7h4wk I'd agree except they explicitly said that it was a Suyez class... But it looks like a Miranda because they used a "kitbash" for the model effects. That's when they don't want to reuse, or don't have access to a new model but don't have the time/money to make a whole new ship, especially in this case when it's only getting used for 1 shot. So they buy a literal model kit from a hobby shop for a few dollars and stick a few extra bits on it like in this case the dish hanging on the bottom. It became a lot more common in the DS9 era where they had a lot more back ground ships. Then they didn't need it so much after CGI took over... Incidently the Stargazer was originally a kitbash made from 2 wrath of kahn enterprise kits. Using the saucer from one and the extra nacelles from the other
Typhon, the namesake for the region of space they were going through, is a serpentine giant from Greek myth, which might have been a wink and a nod in the direction of ouroboros, the serpent that eats its own tail, given the time loop plot.
honestly, i would wanted to see their faces on screen when Picard tells them the actual Star Date... would have been amazing. i was sad they didnt went with that angle.
The Doctor was stuck in the confessional dial for 4.5 Billion years… so it could have been worse. Or almost 600 years for Haruhi Suzumiya Endless Eight time loop.
I am guessing that there was something special about the Enterprise which allowed echoes to move from one time loop into the next (Data's positronic brain, Geordi's visor, the existence of over a thousand voices at the same time). For the Bozeman, maybe they didnt even realize that time was repeating itself.
my totally speculative theory I think the Bozeman also had 17 days of time loop echoes, but they didn't get them until another ship became involved. and our heroes are just more resourceful (and have better training and sensor capabilities regarding temporal distortions) so they figred it out much sooner :)
I grew up watching TOS. When TNG first came out I was reluctant to watch it, fearing it wouldn't live up to my expectations. When I finally watched, I fell in love with it. I also loved Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and Star Trek: Enterprise. Just as a side note, Kat's look makes me think of a classical Greek sculpture.
I think i've seen this episode of Star Trek more than any other across every iteration. I think it cemented my love to time loop shit in sci-fi. Edit* 6:34 Also, if I was Picard i'd absolutely be trying to woo Crusher with hot drinks with nutmeg.
Originally the plan was fo have Kristy Alley reprising her role of Saavik as the first officer of the Bozeman but she was too expensive for a cameo. So they changed the actress and date that the Bozeman came from
They kept trying to get her back, was never going to happen. They wanted Saavik back for Undiscovered Country (building on the idea that if you skip Final frontier ST:2 to ST:6 are one story) but she refused and the character became Valaris. Which was a shame because Spocks comment about succeeding him on the Enterprise would have made more sense and her final betrayal more impactful.
I've always wondered since I saw this episode in 1989 (which seems like 90 years ago 🙄) how the Bosman could be stuck in the loop for 90 years if the Enterprise was only stuck for 3 weeks if the only way to restart a loop was to be destroyed. As my wife says that doesn't math correctly
I commented on that last week! Definitely got a Death of the Endless cosplay there. Have to be careful with my words though, I didn't want to be commenting every week saying "Katrina! You look like death!" because she does but doesn't. Looking beautiful!
I remember watching this episode when it aired at a hotel in California. At the time, i wasnt a fan of the Enterprise D, and 11 year old me was annoyed when the ship wasn't actually destroyed.
They had like 3 seconds to abandon ship, and no way a life pod could've launched with how crazy the ship was spinning. Nobody was getting out of that one alive.
I believe the other ship wasn't in a loop the whole time but went through a rift in space time 90 years into the future and then the collision caused the loop. Otherwise why after 90 years did none of them remember information of the loop while the enterprise did after only 17 days.
I also like in this episode is that Dr. Crusher reports her strange feelings, AND that the crew takes it serious. Too often in sci-fi or tv in general, characters brush these things off or are not taken seriously, so that a plot can happen. Here on the other hand, the crew has t so much trust in each other. Love it.
I also love that. Nothing is simply discarded as that's crazy talk. It's all at the very least let's run a diagnostic.
That happens several times in TNG, it shows how much everyone on the Enterprise is trusted
Yes, throughout the show I've noticed certainly the senior staff trust both each other and the reports from the rest of the crew unless and until they feel there's reason and evidence to question it, and their conduct gets applied to the rest of the general crew as well.
There *is* Worf, of course, but even in his cases, it's not a matter of not trusting his perceptions or information, but usually making a command decision to favor diplomacy, exploration, and information-gathering over a purely security-minded defensive posture.
Particularly Picard. No matter how crazy their request, or what they were asking he always trusted them implicitly. Many times, based merely on the story a crew member told him, he would raise the alert level, or stop the enterprise and carry out a diagnostic. He would even change his orders based on what Gainen advised him.
There were too many shows back then where no ever believed the protagonist, despite having close relationships, until it was too late. So, it was refreshing back then to see the crew so competent, and excel individually and as a team.
@@gluuuuue and then in that frozen time episode, Riker takes Worf's advice for once and he's so surprised that he specifically thanks him!
One whole year before Groundhog Day, i smell some typical starfleet time shenanigens
one whole year, *OR,* exactly at the same time.
are we talking Earth time or Hollywood time? there's usually some time dilation.
I know this isn't really what the episode was about, but I liked when Dr. Crusher moved her glass, so she wouldn't break it, and she ended up breaking it anyway. It makes me wonder about things that are "supposed" to happen, and you can't change them.
Who knows what dire consequences to the space time continuum would occur if Beverly was less careless with tableware?
Star Trek pretty explicitly has Fate as a force in the universe that keeps events vaguely in the same shape. My pet theory is that fate *evolved* - any species without Fate gets butterflied out of existence by time travel.
The glass breaking is a fixed point in time.
That glass breaking after she put it away scene is a rare occurence of what seems to be a combination of Red Herring and Chekov's Gun at the same time.
At first glance, it seems to indicate that despite all efforts, what's gonna happen can't be changed. However, when you examine it more closely, it proves precisely that it CAN be changed, because that's not HOW the glass broke the other times AT ALL. This in turn forshadows the destruction of the Enterprise as also preventable.
whats really going to bake your noodle is, would you have knocked it off if I hadn't said anything.
When this episode first aired, it was a real shocker to see Kelsey Grammer sitting in The Center Seat as Captain Bateson, just as it was to see Stephen Root in 'Unification' as the Klingon Captain K'vada. So many A-List stars on TNG, and many of them were in the midst of starring on their own popular Shows when they made these Guest appearances.
I know right!
@@DrummingWriterTrekfan84 And when asked why they wanted to be on a weekly, syndicated TV show, everyone said the same thing; "Because, it's... Star Trek!"
@@cleekmaker00It also drew monster ratings. A few times I think it even beat Monday Night Football.
“Oh, shit. We in a time loop.”
😂😂😂 We are, indeed!
Love this episode. Another detail I like which doesn't come across when streaming - the Enterprise blows up at the beginning of each commercial break and it resets when you come back.
yeah natural act breaks can be nice
The uniforms are from Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
Originally the idea was to have the bridge of the U.S.S. Bozeman be a little reunion. Kelsey Grammer from Cheers plays the captain of the U.S.S. Bozeman and they wanted his executive officer to be Lt. Saavik (from Star Trek II, III, and IV) who in Star Trek II was played by his Cheers co-star Kirstie Alley. Alley wasn't available unfortunately.
The name of the Bozeman is also a recurring in-joke. Bozeman, Montana is the hometown of Star Trek writer-producer Brannon Braga (co-creator of Enterprise) and is later the site of Zephram Cochrane's warp ship launch facility in Star Trek: First Contact.
Kirsty Alley didn't play Savik in ST 3 or 4 that was Robin Curtis. They tried to get her back for 6 but she said No and so they renamed the character Valaris. It would have made Spocks comment that she was meant to succeed him on the Enterprise make more sense and the betrayal more powerful
@@Calzaki I didn't say she played her in Star Trek III or IV. I said the character appeared in Star Treks II, III, and IV and in II was played by Alley. Incidently, they tried to get her back for ST III as well but she wanted far too much money; ironic considering how lucky she was to get the role in the first place. She's admitted that she lied to them about her acting experience and you'd think someone who only got the job through deceit would be a little less likely to give up that job with unrealistic salary demands. Then again, she is a scientologist and has made plenty of statements recently that point to her phaser not firing on all settings.
Fun fact: A ship named Bozeman later returns twice. First it's mentioned by Data in "Generations" altering it's course due to the Nexus and second we hear some confirmation from the ship via Starfleet intercom during the battle with the Borg cube in "First Contact".
I watched this episode when it aired (1992). Me and some friends thought the television station airing it made a mistake by airing the same scenes over and over. We didn't have DVR technology or chat room/ social media sites back then to compare or review what we were watching. It was after the third commercial break that we realized the ship was in some sort of time loop. I was videotaping it at the time, so when the episode ended I rewatched it several times to finally notice the subtle differences in the scenes. From there I realized "Cause and Effect" will go down as one of TNG's best episodes.
The Enterprise is about to explode. Paula and Katrina discussing Ro's new hairstyle. Love you guys!🖖
5 card stud was the poker game and you see versions of those uniforms in Yesterday's Enterprise and when Wesley sees the Holodeck message from his father. Bebe Neuwirth, who is in an earlier episode, and Kelsey Grammer were both shooting Cheers on the same lot that TNG was shooting and that's how they got the guest roles.
Loved this time loop episode. A year before Groundhog Day came out.
Wow this is a Mandela effect thing for me, I swore for over 30 years it was 7 card stud but you're right! 7 card stud was the most popular form until Texas hold'em became popular in the late 90's early 2000's.
my reaction to "what are they playing?" was an intentionally crankyoldman "it's just POKER, none of this newfangled variant crap" haha. even if not actually the most popular a lot of the time, 5 stud was just the core default for so long, until the world went crazy for Hold 'em
I love how they deal with the time loop in this episode. When I first saw this episode, I was worried it would get boring since basically the same events happen over and over, but every loop is just different enough from the previous loop to keep the episode interesting. Such a great episode.
Glad you like Jonathan Frakes directing. Get used to it, because spoiler alert, he's still directing to this day.
Yeah he is
This episode has one of my favorite Star Trek isms.
"I'm not imagining things/crazy, *reality* has been changed!"
the rest of the crew... "ok. let's go to work."
This is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favourite episode of TNG. It was well-paced, well-acted (I mean, Picard's reaction when he hears *himself* order "Abandon ship!".... **chef's kiss**), and was really entertaining.
Fun little tidbit: this episode aired on March 23, 1992, about 10 1/2 *months* before "Groundhog Day". Just felt the need to point that out, for some threeson....
This is one of my favorite episodes. I don't watch it in bed very often since the repeated screaming of ALL HANDS ABANDON SHIP! tends to wake me up.
At least Worf doesn't always get shot down in DS9, although that's partly because Sisko usually is ready to fight even before Worf suggests it
The 2 Captains this Episode were Xavier and Beast.
not for a couple more time loops, they won't be.
One of my top 5 episodes! I love this episode and is probably one of the things that created a lifelong LOVE of time travel, time loop,etc kind of genre in me
Any time travel episode is a great episode, but this one really is high at the top of the list of TNG time traveling episodes! It had such a great concept that other non-star Trek shows, such as Family Guy and others, have referenced the expression "Temporal Causality loop".
Which is one of the reasons I enjoyed Voyager.
Back when this episode first aired, I remember watching this withy dad and being so scared watching the Enterprise exploding, I would always cover my eyes haha.
Yes! It’s THIS episode! One of my all-time favorites! I love the repeating time trope in everything.
I know I seem to say this with every episode but this is definitely one of my all-time favourite episodes. The teaser is certainly one of the best and most-shocking in all of Trek. Jonathan Frakes once again proves how great of a director he is. As you pointed out, he keeps every loop unique and different in all kinds of ways. Anyway, it was awesome seeing Kelsey Grammar having a cameo as Captain Bateson. He was more well-known at the time for playing Doctor Frasier Crane in the sitcom "Cheers". A few trivia tidbits: the Bozeman uniforms are from "Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan" onwards. The computer graphics on the Bridge are the same as the ones from "Star Trek 5" onwards. Also, the Bozeman is mentioned twice in the movies. Once in "Star Trek: Generations" and once in "Star Trek: First Contact". Captain Bateson himself is heard giving a simple "Acknowledged" to a communication order near the start of "First Contact". Finally, there's a novel prequel to "First Contact" starring Captain Bateson as the original candidate for the captaincy of the newly-built Enterprise-E, although obviously it eventually goes to Picard again.
The acknowledged in First Contact was the Defiant. Also in Beta cannon the Soyuz class Bozeman was retired and replaced with a Sovereign class Bozeman which was commanded by Bateson. A Soyuz class in a fight like they had in First Contact would be a suicide mission
"Oh, for god's sakes, this story is still going around?" Yeah, it boggles my mind. Seems to have sprung up late anyway, back then nobody assumed that it is the same ship. Why should Enterprise, Saratoga and Defiant be the only names to be reused? Similarly to some people whining about "if you don't know DS9, you would be confused by Worf being on the Defiant"... Really? You would? Like you were confused about Chekov being on the Reliant?
Yeah, this is one of my favorite eps. I can watch it.. over and over again..
Though I always found Data's "3" signal so speculative. Because Data himself is the 2nd Officer and 3rd in rank on the ship, so "3" could have just as easily indicated him while Riker might be "2". Or Riker, being 1st Officer, might be "1" ("Number One"), while Data could be "2".
I like that when the senior staff was speculating on what "3" meant, Picard asked and the camera panned to Riker.
I think Data probably worked out the probabilities very quickly and went with it. Still a huge gamble, and he didn’t have much time.
Its probably the type of thing that Data himself would understand best.
Data realized Picard was going with his suggestion but they were stuck. Combine that with Riker's 3 (and there are 3 main shuttlebays) and he made the leap to choose the other option.
Fun Fact Captain of the other ship was Kelsey Gramer who had his own show Fraiser and was Beast in xmen
The episode became the basis for a couple of meme areas; one has Laforge mentioning they could have been stuck in the loop for an unknown amount of times, the other has Grammer doing a Frasier-style conversation while in the captain's chair.
You were close on the 2278 uniforms, Paula. These uniforms are actually first seen in Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan. In the prime Star Trek universe, these uniforms remained relatively unchanged until sometime in the 2350's when Starfleet changes over to what we see in Encounter At Farpoint.
We have seen that new uniforms are changed in stages, introduced on space stations, academy cadets, science vessels, the admiralty, etc. Perhaps the Bozeman was chosen as one of the tryouts for the "monster maroon" uniform or maybe just officers on ships and not NCO's/crewmen (like in TWOK).
'Star Trek: The Motion Picture' had the best uniforms, though. I guess they used the 'Wrath of Khan' uniforms for the episode because they're more iconic. But this means that the 'Motion Picture' uniforms were very short lived in the Star Trek universe. A shame.
One of my favorite things about this episode is that the Bozeman's first, instinctual, reaction is "Can we provide assistance?"
11:50 the outfits are actually those of the previous century, in the Star Trek timeline. Katrina, you will see those uniforms in the movies - beginning with Star Trek II - that are set in that period of time (starring Kirk and his guys).
Yes, the used this uniforms since Star Trek II (one of the best Star Trek Movies with probably the best villain), fans actually didn't like the uniforms of the first Star Trek movie, therefore the changed it for Star Trek II.
@@smartfox2295 was there anything about the first movie anyone liked? Personally I wish they'd used the unused uniform designs from Generations (movie) which were going to be a cross between TNG season 3-7 and TOS Movies (You can still find concept art online... The coloured jackets but with pull across wraps and shoulder pins and undershorts also reminiscent of late DS9... They would have tied the two time periods together nicely
@@Calzaki The music, the special effects, the models and matte paintings, ... also the core concept of the plot
@@silkwesir1444 Sorry, for the late reply but yes i would say these are the major things that were good on the movie and i have to admit that the movie grew on me over time. And i always find new things out about it like the fact that the klingon commander in the beginning of the movie was played by Mark Lenard who of course also played Spock's father Sarek.
I love how they casually talk about Ro's hair while the Enterprise is destroyed
The way Picard reacts when Crusher tells him she heard voices, pulls back almost defensively... Kinda a cross between "ok weirdo", "Well it's not the craziest thing i've heard from you" and "Well it certainly wasn't me hiding in your closet watching you sleep."
I saw it more as surprise followed by concern. He still took her seriously, as he did for all his crew whatever crazy stories they told him. That’s one of things I loved about this show.
Paula showing us how an introverted nerd- if she is - can seem like an extrovert as she gets more hyper and intense talking about something that she finds genuinely fascinating. If I ever met her we'd probably be talking over each other with excitement. lol
It's not that introverts lack energy, it's that they put out a lot, and need an equally large amount back or else they get tired from the expenditure.
s5e18 of TNG premiered in March 1992. Groundhog Day principal photography began March 1992. Five days after the air date. :P Who out groundhog'd who? But the idea was formulated a few years before. I wonder if the Groundhog Day director Harold Ramis watched this and went... Oh. Come. On!?! :)
In First Contact when the fleet is battling the Borg cube, you can hear a radio transmission from or to the Bozeman.
Also the Bozeman needing to make a course correction after a star is destroyed is how Picard and Data figure out Soren’s plan in Star Trek: Generations.
In all likelihood not the same ship. There have been more than one Enterprise, more than one Saratoga, more than one Defiant. Why should for some reason Bozeman be a name used only once?
The general consensus is that the Bozeman flew through a time rift to 90 years in the future, collided with the Enterprise, and then the huge explosion next to the time rift made it go wonky and caused it to form a time loop. So both the Enterprise and Bozeman were looping the Bozeman's emergence from the rift for 17 days.
When this originally aired, the opening showed the Enterprise blow up, then we heard the intro: "Space, the final frontier: these are the voyages of the starship Enterprise...", and I thought "based on what we just saw, shouldn't that be '... these WERE the voyages of the starship Enterprise'?"
A few days later I learned that a few of my friends had used this episode to try to play a "Star Trek drinking game" that had been shared over e-mail, mostly as a joke. They didn't get very far, because the last instruction in the game was "If the Enterprise blows up, finish off the keg".
couple other episodes I can think of where that'd really do you in haha. in fact, given that time travel is almost guarantEED to get involved if the ship blows up, that rule is very predisposed to extreme spikes in incidence!
@@jerodast Yes, I can also think of a few other episodes where we see the Enterprise blow up. But is there any other where it blows up this many times in one episode?
5:38 Roll them bones Shepherd.
**glass breaks**
"Dust in the wind...."
I love how the episode caught some of the creepy vibes of deja vu. That close up of Riker "you're going to call my bluff" was unexpected to the point I was like 😲
But I hated seeing my space lambs in such distress. Esp Picard calling all hands to abadon sh-- 😞 I YEET that timeline.
I've been meaning to ask this for a bit, but I'm wondering about what episode or season did Katrina actually consider herself a TNG fan?
To date this has been the only appearance of a Soyuz Class Starship. If it looks familiar, it would because of another class known as the Miranda Class was used in periodically in Trek projects. It was too expensive to make an entirely new class model so the Miranda Class model was given some nifty sensor pods thus making this an entirely new class of ship!
They used the Miranda class in Star Trek 2 as the ship Khan took over.
This was always one of my favorite episodes of the whole series, such a cool concept, but beyond that, what it really highlights is how Picard always, in pretty much every episode, values Data's recommendations above anyone else's (and Worf is always at the bottom of that list, as we all know). I like this fact, because I like Data, and I like when Data gets to show off just how smart and quick-thinking he is, and I appreciate that Picard also recognizes this quality. Picard usually doesn't need that much convincing. But, as we see here, Data isn't infallible.
One of Brannon Braga’s good episodes.
One of my favorite episodes! I love Time Travel stories
TNG had the best ones, pretty much, because it was basically a rule on TNG that the writers couldn't write time travel stories. They'd done too many with TOS, the producers felt, and it was becoming cliche in scifi in general. That's why you don't see the standard "crew from the Enterprise goes back in time on Earth and meets people from current broadcast year" thing on TNG, and even if any members of the crew do travel through time, there's always some kind of twist to it. Lots of time loops, time-traveling con men, time skips that turn out to be elaborate deceptions, a past version of the Enterprise changes the timeline, etc., and our crew are, for the most part, in the present, dealing with whatever's going on. Even the most cliche time travel episode in TNG has a pretty unique twist on it, but we're not there yet.
DS9 threw out the rule, although they still had a couple clever episodes. VOY also went pretty cliche with it a bunch, but managed a couple interesting takes.
My Favorite Worf episode involves an amazing anomaly. When it shows up in the far future, let's see if the crew takes it seriously.
One of my favs! I'm an old crusty who saw all this at the time but I love how you seem to get everything! All the nuances of characters etc. Good Work!
I think the 2nd ship was in a shorter loop. Their loop is that they exited the time distortion and struck the Enterprise over and over. The time distortion made them travel 90 years into the future.
my theory was always they WERE stuck in a loop for 90 years, but until 17 days ago their loop was LITERALLY the same, and it was only the interaction of the two ships that caused the buildup of weird echoes that allowed the Enterprise to figure it out. of course this is pure headcanon, its all too made up to say any version is really "right" :)
@@jerodastI don’t know why they would have been in a loop before 17 days ago considering the explosion of the warp core creates the loop. I think they traveled 90 years in the future through the rift only to immediately run into the enterprise and start looping, also for 17 days.
7:56 That's how Data says WTF xD
Will you guys ever watch voyager or DS9? They both have some great time travel stories too.
The second time I saw this episode, was with my father and brother. I had to stop them from changing the channel because they thought the TV station was having technical difficulties and the episode just kept starting over from the beginning.
Starfleet recertified The Bozeman after a much needed overhaul because at this point in time The Federation was desperate for starships.
"Es gibt Leute, die haben sich schon totgemischt."
- "Nur durch gründliches Mischen wird der Verdacht des Falschspielens ausgeräumt."
- "Das hoffe ich sehr..."
totally burned into my memory
Red Letter Media owns the exploded Enterprise D model used in this episode (among other props from the show as Mike and Rich are huge TNG fans).
They showed it off in one of their videos two weeks ago but I can't link it here because my comment gets auto-deleted if I do.
You guys should do Pushing Daisies next. It's an awesome show.
This was such a great episode! It can take time for the mind to recognize the that it has non memories in it!
Technically the Bozeman was trapped in the causality loop for the same amount of time as the Enterprise. Each time the loop reset, The Bozeman would start it's point in the time loop 90 years in the past leading up to when it encountered the Spatial distortion, then entering and exiting the Phenomenon 90 years later and colliding with the Enterprise-D and destroying her which reset the loop repeating the process. (Try to wrap your brain around that one. Just thinking about it gives me a headache. LOL!)
Time travel gives me a headache
For more on this story, check out the ST:TNG novel “Ship of the Line” by Diane Carey. In her backstory, the ship at the end (the Bozeman) has come through a space-time rift 90 years into the future, rather than being stuck in the causality loop for 90 years. She does a good job portraying the sudden grief that that ship’s captain feels when he realizes that he and his crew have permanently disappeared from their families that are left in 2278.
Five-Card Stud, Paula.
Shepard play with all the d4 dice. lay a nice dice caltrop trap for Paula to step on.
girls I wanted to ask are you planning to start watching deep space nine simultaneously with the beginning of tng’s 6th season (because chronologically they are set in the same time) or after you finish tng completely?
They should defiantly do it together as that way they'll know who their meeting in episodes like Birthright or that other episode where Quark cameos. The Maquis set up will work better too. Then when TNG finishes sub in out with Voyager, although it might just be DS9 fanboying but VOY doesn't hold a candle
For a time loop episode, considering when this was done, it's very good. Now, it's like how quickly Katrina knew what was happening, because it's been done so often. I forget what was the 1st time loop story ever I saw, but this was early on.
Kelsey Grammar (Frasier ) as the captain and the female first officer was originally going to be Savik the Vulcan from Star Trek 2 . The actress wasn’t interested in doing it.
12:05 Their ship is now a museum. The Star Trek book "Ship of the Line" tells more.
Although the film "First Contact" might contradict that, as the Bozeman is one of the ships that faces the Borg in the beginning (not seen, but referenced in the audio.)
@@albertmartinez2539 I recall the book set that up as a newer USS Bozeman that Bateson moved some of his crew onto.
Although the TNG finale also mentions the Bozeman, presumably not a new one yet?
This is one of my favorites. This is probably in my top 10.
I think the events are nearer what would be described as a do-loop, varying from the exact repeats that typify a time loop in that there are progressive differences to each succeeding sequence. That was a neat surprise having Kelsey Grammer as the captain of the Bozeman at the end.
Did you recognize Frasier? Kelsey Grammer is a Trek fan and was thrilled to play a starship captain.
When I first saw this, I went and got the phone book to call the TV station to tell them they were repeating.
Is Frasier really a trek fan or just a fan of Sci fi franchises where Patrick Stewart plays the wise leader :)
So, Paula's cat has both amazing timing and a gambling problem. Just like that, Shepard's life is more interesting than mine.
If the Enterprise crew is facing severe deja vu after only seventeen days, I imagine the crew of the Bozeman would be stark raving mad after having experienced it for almost a century. Yet they seem pretty composed and curious about what's happened. So I'm going with the they've just traveled now theory as opposed to having spent over ninety years reliving the same day.
you're never safe aboard a Miranda class.
time loops on the Bozeman, abductions by guerrilla fighters on the Reliant, mass hysteria on the Brattain, assimilated on the Saratoga, blown to bits on the Majestic.... might as well accept your fate and keep it cool.
@@bcn1gh7h4wk I'd agree except they explicitly said that it was a Suyez class... But it looks like a Miranda because they used a "kitbash" for the model effects. That's when they don't want to reuse, or don't have access to a new model but don't have the time/money to make a whole new ship, especially in this case when it's only getting used for 1 shot. So they buy a literal model kit from a hobby shop for a few dollars and stick a few extra bits on it like in this case the dish hanging on the bottom. It became a lot more common in the DS9 era where they had a lot more back ground ships. Then they didn't need it so much after CGI took over... Incidently the Stargazer was originally a kitbash made from 2 wrath of kahn enterprise kits. Using the saucer from one and the extra nacelles from the other
The crew is so good at seriously checking out anyone's perception of any anomaly. The only time it doesn't happen is when the writers are being lazy.
One of my favorite episodes.
Typhon, the namesake for the region of space they were going through, is a serpentine giant from Greek myth, which might have been a wink and a nod in the direction of ouroboros, the serpent that eats its own tail, given the time loop plot.
I love this episode! Great reaction, Gals! 😃👍
honestly, i would wanted to see their faces on screen when Picard tells them the actual Star Date... would have been amazing. i was sad they didnt went with that angle.
The Doctor was stuck in the confessional dial for 4.5 Billion years… so it could have been worse. Or almost 600 years for Haruhi Suzumiya Endless Eight time loop.
I am guessing that there was something special about the Enterprise which allowed echoes to move from one time loop into the next (Data's positronic brain, Geordi's visor, the existence of over a thousand voices at the same time). For the Bozeman, maybe they didnt even realize that time was repeating itself.
I think that many people on the ship have at least some temporal awareness - either from past time travel or exposure to Guinan
my totally speculative theory I think the Bozeman also had 17 days of time loop echoes, but they didn't get them until another ship became involved. and our heroes are just more resourceful (and have better training and sensor capabilities regarding temporal distortions) so they figred it out much sooner :)
I grew up watching TOS. When TNG first came out I was reluctant to watch it, fearing it wouldn't live up to my expectations. When I finally watched, I fell in love with it. I also loved Star Trek: Deep Space 9 and Star Trek: Enterprise. Just as a side note, Kat's look makes me think of a classical Greek sculpture.
There's a Star Trek novel called "Ship of The Line", that follows up on this episode.
I think i've seen this episode of Star Trek more than any other across every iteration. I think it cemented my love to time loop shit in sci-fi.
Edit* 6:34 Also, if I was Picard i'd absolutely be trying to woo Crusher with hot drinks with nutmeg.
That happened to me once twice, or countless times, Who knows. There is a slight chance I made that up. Very Good Reactions Girls.
Originally the plan was fo have Kristy Alley reprising her role of Saavik as the first officer of the Bozeman but she was too expensive for a cameo. So they changed the actress and date that the Bozeman came from
They kept trying to get her back, was never going to happen. They wanted Saavik back for Undiscovered Country (building on the idea that if you skip Final frontier ST:2 to ST:6 are one story) but she refused and the character became Valaris. Which was a shame because Spocks comment about succeeding him on the Enterprise would have made more sense and her final betrayal more impactful.
I've always wondered since I saw this episode in 1989 (which seems like 90 years ago 🙄) how the Bosman could be stuck in the loop for 90 years if the Enterprise was only stuck for 3 weeks if the only way to restart a loop was to be destroyed. As my wife says that doesn't math correctly
Another quality fish-face video!
Has Katrina read The Sandman? Cuz her Death look is on point!
I commented on that last week! Definitely got a Death of the Endless cosplay there. Have to be careful with my words though, I didn't want to be commenting every week saying "Katrina! You look like death!" because she does but doesn't. Looking beautiful!
So many actors on Star Trek were also on 'Cheers.' Even Whoopi Goldberg had a connection to 'Cheers' because she was dating Ted Danson at the time.
Frakes directed this. Iirc he multicammed it so some scenes are the same but from different angles and sequence so it wouldn't get boring
Frasier Crane meets Star Trek!!!
I remember watching this episode when it aired at a hotel in California. At the time, i wasnt a fan of the Enterprise D, and 11 year old me was annoyed when the ship wasn't actually destroyed.
Such a deal we have for you, Katrina...
All hands abandon ship!
They had like 3 seconds to abandon ship, and no way a life pod could've launched with how crazy the ship was spinning. Nobody was getting out of that one alive.
shaky camera, manual zoom, time loop,..... omg, we're in Battlestar Galactica!
Star Trek Discovery did this too(Harry mudd trkied to steal the Enterpise)using a time crystal
17:02 She IS a commander they should be listened to.
Love love love this episode!!
I hate poker on TV. String bets and pot splashing all around.
I believe the other ship wasn't in a loop the whole time but went through a rift in space time 90 years into the future and then the collision caused the loop. Otherwise why after 90 years did none of them remember information of the loop while the enterprise did after only 17 days.
I concur. The loop was for only 17 days- for both ships.
Prof X and Beast together! lol 😆 i think Patrick Stuart has a good episode of Fraiser as well. It was later tho, well after this.
14:13 themotion mpicture they have white uniforms in star trek 2 they use those.
Love this episode so much
Love this episode
The game is Texas hold-em. 2 hole cards and 5up
Wibbly, wobbly, timey, wimey