Kissing Icons: In Greece, kissing someone is how we greet our family and friends. When we see them, we kiss them on both cheeks to make them feel loved. We pray to our Saints so that they pray for us in front of the throne of God... and for those who don't believe that saints see or hear us in heaven... Jesus Christ said: “Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope and prospect of seeing My day (My incarnation); and he did see it and was delighted. [Heb. 11:13.]” John 8:56
@@tylerbasham1491 If you think about it, all that separates souls on earth is our flesh and body. When souls go to heaven, there is nothing that separates one saint from the next, or with The Father, The Son or the Holy Spirit. This is why Orthodox believe that we need to work out our lives, refrain from Sin, confess, repent, forgive and bear our cross to the end because Evil can not be in the presence of God, nor darkness in light. Orthodox do not believe that everyone is saved because they claim to have faith, and at the beginning, they may have had it. But time has a way of changing priorities and cooling our plates. If we have our sin when we repose to the Lord... then we don't believe that we'll be able to enter heaven, because the only Guarantee is that Christ will Judge us all individually. We become part of Heaven, and the Saints can see us through Christ. It's so interesting to read the Church Fathers and learn what 2,000 years of thought and working it out results in. We know so little about God, because it's unknowable to our human minds. The best we can do is find the Church that has an unbroken line from the Apostles... and follow their direction.
@@spartanastas it's been hard for me coming back to faith searching for truth, because I've found the bible contradicts a lot of what I hear people online teaching so I've been really looking into Orthodoxy and messianic Judaism trying to trace things back to the beginning
@@tylerbasham1491 First rule, don't learn about it online. When you go to the chats, people's egos take over and they want to appear to know what they are talking about. Yes, some do, but there is too much confusion. If you want to listen to a podcast that is outstanding... "Searching the Scriptures Live". There is also a Podcast called "Our Life in Christ" and that is done by two people who used to belong to Protestant Churches, and they explain the trouble that they had when they were converting to Orthodoxy because of many years of misdirection. Many Churches like to misrepresent Orthodoxy to be heretical, which it is not. In the Podcast they explain how they overcame the heterodox detours and came to understand what Holy Traditions really are. One thing that gives many trouble is venerating or kissing icons. Well, Greeks and Europeans kiss their family when they see them for the first time in a week. We kiss them on each cheek because we love them and we want to show them that. The same goes for our heavenly family. We kiss the icon to show them that we love them. Icons keep your thinking about God, and remind us that God is always watching. It's true! God is always watching. Is an icon bad? If we look at the Bible, Scripture or epistles, they are made up of paragraphs of words. If we look a little closer, the words are all created by letters. What is a letter? Is it an Icon that represents a sound, which helps us put the sounds together to say the words that build the paragraphs that fill the Bible. That means that the Bible is filled with icons that helps us learn the Word of God. The Bible is also an icon because it gives us the sounds of God's Word. That's exactly what our Painted/written icons do: they help us see a story at a glance. You may see St. George slaying a dragon/demon because that's what he did. You may see another Saint Holding a Child, because he protected and healed born, unborn and orphan Children from a cave (Saint Stylianos). You may see an Icon of John the Baptist, with a silver tray and an axe in the background. They all teach us about the Orthodox MVPs of the past, and show us that it is possible to reach their level, if we keep them in our thoughts, and that's what the icon does: it keeps God in our thoughts so that other things don't fill our minds. It's 2,000 years of working it out that helps us stay on the right path. Not by force, we don't have a Church that is oppressive, because we celebrate the Resurrection, the Victory, as others focus on the death or crucifixion. I'm sorry, I kind of went on a tangent. LOL I hope you had a Merry Christmas, and that Saint Nicholas the wonderworker watches over and intercedes for you.
To answer the question “why are you in our church” I would say “why is your church in the United States?” Orthodox Churches should be more welcoming to any who seek understanding. I get that it is also a place of community for immigrant groups, but primarily it should be a church.
I glorify God for the witness of these two, most especially what brother Thilo said at around 55:17. Those servants and clergy who truly wish to feed the flock of Christ by serving formerly Protestant inquirers and catechumens truly need to heed his words. I have heard similar sentiments expressed by dozens of formerly Protestant converts to Orthodoxy. They do not want a cheap imitation of their former tradition. They simply want the Orthodox Faith and Orthodox practice - liturgical worship - in English. Those who bring CCM into the life of the Coptic Church often claim they are doing it in the name of "converts", but frankly, they are usually thinking about themselves and their own misguided perception as Orthodoxy as the "faith of the Motherland" and Evangelical Protestantism as the "faith of the Lands of Immigration". This is based on bad ecclesiology which regards Protestant denominations as being part of the Church when truly they are not. Lord, have mercy.
One of the big problems with Bart Ehrman’s arguments is a refusal to understandthat both the OT and NT were oral texts/traditions before they were ever written down. John Walton is a good resource for understanding this idea.
My husband and I visited Greek and Antiochian parishes during our journey. We also read from great Russian theologians. The reason we ultimately chose the Coptic church is because of their ethos. It is one of great humility and endurance that is borne from 2000+ years of persecution. While we loved everywhere we visited and greatly appreciated the scholasticism of the EO, it remained that the OO had the humility we most needed to acquire as westerners.
Saying the Muslims helped Copts sounds very bad. I know what he means though. A better way of saying it - The Church has lasted through the persecutions of Muslims which shows that its the True Church which the gates of hell would not prevail. The miracles with Mary are also a sign and confirmation God is with the Church. However, we must remember that God does NOT use Muslims to persecute and kill Copts to 'help' them in anything. That is Jewish thinking. That is not the God we worship, nor is it how God looks after us. That is a false, Jewish understanding which applies to their g-d of war and death - not our True God. The True God ensures that Satan will not overthrow the Church, but he would NEVER 'help' Copts by using Muslims to persecute them as proof they are the True Church. Jesus says to PRAY for those who persecute you. But he did NOT say to love them. Read the verse very carefully. Those who persecute you are worse than enemies. And when you are praying for those who persecute you it means.. Also choosing a Church because of persecution is not a good thing or desirable. The Jews #1 boasting is that they have survived through the greatest persecutions etc.etc. They tell each other in every gathering. Its literally their religion. Every year a new fable is made about their people and it gets published in their books and spread around their community and eventually makes it to the mainstream as legitimate history and people are tricked. They DECEIVE people into believing they are from the middle east and that they have survived the longest, hardest Persecution so God MUST be protecting them. Even Christians believe this. This is a deception and a FALSE reason that something is from God. Its also a very bad reason to join a Church. This is Jewish thinking because they LOVE to see Christians persecuted. Some even might think it 'helps' Christians. Also being anti-Catholic is a very bad sign. If you are anti-Catholic, it means you are in COMPLIANCE with the scripture of PROTOCOL OF ZION no. 17. This is not what our Lord had in mind to establish his Kingdom. Ideally Satan was overcome, the Church became official, and we should be reigning on earth, not be persecuted and in subjection and bondage. But I know, the problems didn't begin until Israel and before then it was largely peace all through the middle east. Only Christians have been persecuted. To Muslims its a normal way of life, to us Christians it is not natural for us or a good thing. So no, I don't feel they 'help' us.
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Kissing Icons: In Greece, kissing someone is how we greet our family and friends. When we see them, we kiss them on both cheeks to make them feel loved. We pray to our Saints so that they pray for us in front of the throne of God... and for those who don't believe that saints see or hear us in heaven...
Jesus Christ said: “Your forefather Abraham was extremely happy at the hope and prospect of seeing My day (My incarnation); and he did see it and was delighted. [Heb. 11:13.]”
John 8:56
Thank you for that scripture!
I had never thought of that verse in regard to praying to saints
@@tylerbasham1491 If you think about it, all that separates souls on earth is our flesh and body. When souls go to heaven, there is nothing that separates one saint from the next, or with The Father, The Son or the Holy Spirit. This is why Orthodox believe that we need to work out our lives, refrain from Sin, confess, repent, forgive and bear our cross to the end because Evil can not be in the presence of God, nor darkness in light. Orthodox do not believe that everyone is saved because they claim to have faith, and at the beginning, they may have had it. But time has a way of changing priorities and cooling our plates. If we have our sin when we repose to the Lord... then we don't believe that we'll be able to enter heaven, because the only Guarantee is that Christ will Judge us all individually. We become part of Heaven, and the Saints can see us through Christ. It's so interesting to read the Church Fathers and learn what 2,000 years of thought and working it out results in. We know so little about God, because it's unknowable to our human minds. The best we can do is find the Church that has an unbroken line from the Apostles... and follow their direction.
@@spartanastas it's been hard for me coming back to faith searching for truth, because I've found the bible contradicts a lot of what I hear people online teaching so I've been really looking into Orthodoxy and messianic Judaism trying to trace things back to the beginning
@@tylerbasham1491 First rule, don't learn about it online. When you go to the chats, people's egos take over and they want to appear to know what they are talking about. Yes, some do, but there is too much confusion. If you want to listen to a podcast that is outstanding... "Searching the Scriptures Live". There is also a Podcast called "Our Life in Christ" and that is done by two people who used to belong to Protestant Churches, and they explain the trouble that they had when they were converting to Orthodoxy because of many years of misdirection. Many Churches like to misrepresent Orthodoxy to be heretical, which it is not. In the Podcast they explain how they overcame the heterodox detours and came to understand what Holy Traditions really are. One thing that gives many trouble is venerating or kissing icons. Well, Greeks and Europeans kiss their family when they see them for the first time in a week. We kiss them on each cheek because we love them and we want to show them that. The same goes for our heavenly family. We kiss the icon to show them that we love them. Icons keep your thinking about God, and remind us that God is always watching. It's true! God is always watching.
Is an icon bad? If we look at the Bible, Scripture or epistles, they are made up of paragraphs of words. If we look a little closer, the words are all created by letters. What is a letter? Is it an Icon that represents a sound, which helps us put the sounds together to say the words that build the paragraphs that fill the Bible. That means that the Bible is filled with icons that helps us learn the Word of God. The Bible is also an icon because it gives us the sounds of God's Word. That's exactly what our Painted/written icons do: they help us see a story at a glance. You may see St. George slaying a dragon/demon because that's what he did. You may see another Saint Holding a Child, because he protected and healed born, unborn and orphan Children from a cave (Saint Stylianos). You may see an Icon of John the Baptist, with a silver tray and an axe in the background. They all teach us about the Orthodox MVPs of the past, and show us that it is possible to reach their level, if we keep them in our thoughts, and that's what the icon does: it keeps God in our thoughts so that other things don't fill our minds. It's 2,000 years of working it out that helps us stay on the right path. Not by force, we don't have a Church that is oppressive, because we celebrate the Resurrection, the Victory, as others focus on the death or crucifixion.
I'm sorry, I kind of went on a tangent. LOL I hope you had a Merry Christmas, and that Saint Nicholas the wonderworker watches over and intercedes for you.
To answer the question “why are you in our church” I would say “why is your church in the United States?” Orthodox Churches should be more welcoming to any who seek understanding. I get that it is also a place of community for immigrant groups, but primarily it should be a church.
I glorify God for the witness of these two, most especially what brother Thilo said at around 55:17. Those servants and clergy who truly wish to feed the flock of Christ by serving formerly Protestant inquirers and catechumens truly need to heed his words. I have heard similar sentiments expressed by dozens of formerly Protestant converts to Orthodoxy. They do not want a cheap imitation of their former tradition. They simply want the Orthodox Faith and Orthodox practice - liturgical worship - in English. Those who bring CCM into the life of the Coptic Church often claim they are doing it in the name of "converts", but frankly, they are usually thinking about themselves and their own misguided perception as Orthodoxy as the "faith of the Motherland" and Evangelical Protestantism as the "faith of the Lands of Immigration". This is based on bad ecclesiology which regards Protestant denominations as being part of the Church when truly they are not. Lord, have mercy.
Thanks for sharing! Peace be with you!
One of the big problems with Bart Ehrman’s arguments is a refusal to understandthat both the OT and NT were oral texts/traditions before they were ever written down.
John Walton is a good resource for understanding this idea.
Why did you pick the Coptic versus the OCA? Considering the fact that you are English speaking ....
They know the difference between EO and OO so I guess they agree with ''christ is of two natures'', vs ''Christ is in two natures.''
My husband and I visited Greek and Antiochian parishes during our journey. We also read from great Russian theologians. The reason we ultimately chose the Coptic church is because of their ethos. It is one of great humility and endurance that is borne from 2000+ years of persecution. While we loved everywhere we visited and greatly appreciated the scholasticism of the EO, it remained that the OO had the humility we most needed to acquire as westerners.
@@anastasiayoung4440 me too same reason I chose coptic Orthodoxy
@@anastasiayoung4440 same reason i chose coptic orthodoxy
Good morning what are the speaker's names again?
Thilo and Anastasia
Saying the Muslims helped Copts sounds very bad. I know what he means though. A better way of saying it - The Church has lasted through the persecutions of Muslims which shows that its the True Church which the gates of hell would not prevail. The miracles with Mary are also a sign and confirmation God is with the Church.
However, we must remember that God does NOT use Muslims to persecute and kill Copts to 'help' them in anything. That is Jewish thinking. That is not the God we worship, nor is it how God looks after us. That is a false, Jewish understanding which applies to their g-d of war and death - not our True God.
The True God ensures that Satan will not overthrow the Church, but he would NEVER 'help' Copts by using Muslims to persecute them as proof they are the True Church. Jesus says to PRAY for those who persecute you. But he did NOT say to love them. Read the verse very carefully. Those who persecute you are worse than enemies. And when you are praying for those who persecute you it means..
Also choosing a Church because of persecution is not a good thing or desirable. The Jews #1 boasting is that they have survived through the greatest persecutions etc.etc. They tell each other in every gathering. Its literally their religion. Every year a new fable is made about their people and it gets published in their books and spread around their community and eventually makes it to the mainstream as legitimate history and people are tricked.
They DECEIVE people into believing they are from the middle east and that they have survived the longest, hardest Persecution so God MUST be protecting them. Even Christians believe this. This is a deception and a FALSE reason that something is from God. Its also a very bad reason to join a Church.
This is Jewish thinking because they LOVE to see Christians persecuted. Some even might think it 'helps' Christians. Also being anti-Catholic is a very bad sign. If you are anti-Catholic, it means you are in COMPLIANCE with the scripture of PROTOCOL OF ZION no. 17.
This is not what our Lord had in mind to establish his Kingdom. Ideally Satan was overcome, the Church became official, and we should be reigning on earth, not be persecuted and in subjection and bondage. But I know, the problems didn't begin until Israel and before then it was largely peace all through the middle east. Only Christians have been persecuted. To Muslims its a normal way of life, to us Christians it is not natural for us or a good thing. So no, I don't feel they 'help' us.
Are you a Coptic orthodox
in Tasbeha we literally chant Exodus 15… “The Lord is a man of war, the Lord is his name”