This is a mismatch. Carnotaurus was over twice as massive as arctodus ( on average ) and still significantly larger when using the largest specimen. The dinosaur would overpower the bear. A more fair matchup is with Majungasaurus instead.
Well you wouldn't really need them if you're evolved to have a massive, bone eviscerating mouth instead. You don't need to really grab onto anything if all it takes is one bite
9:20 this is actually wrong. The reason why the short face bear was so rare at the tar pits is because it lived in more open habitat areas the tar pits, mostly take place in the forest and areas. That’s why there are sabertooth cats and dire wolves at the tar pits more than short faced bears and American lions.
The reason given by the authors of the paper is that all the three bear species recovered from the Tar Pits were likely not regularly competing for carcasses (at least not at the rate the hypercarnivores were competing for said carcasses), with lower population densities to boot. Arctodus simus was recorded at its baseline continental abundance, though from a shorter time window.
@@Rafael-w4j ok but bears, with the higher intelligence could just change its tactic to fighting on all fours. Or the bear could stand up to the charge, side stepping, pushing its head to the side and then giving a near fatal blow from its paw swipe across the neck.
The horns are purely ornamental, they cant use them as weapons in any capacity. The bear however is known to charge at its prey and could easily wrestle with a carno because you have to think about how they are close in size and that bears wrestle eachother often in nature
Bro, great video👍 Your channel is popping off!! I like how you kept it as accurate as possible (I liked how you even referenced the debate on whether the limbs of the bear made it a poor grappler or not). I pretty much agree with the verdict :) Keep up the amazing work 🐻🦖
The valley isn't exactly created in that movie, they just find an entry to it. There's another theory out there about Dinosaur being a prequel to The Lost World (the classic film, not thr JP film)
@@addictedtochocolate920 that's explain a lot why the dinosaurs can live unbothered after several millions years of their actual extinction date. But the refugia also hold various other animals that existed before dinosaurs like labyrinthodont amphibian and even several animals that appear after dinosaur extinction can reached the valley one by one. Hence deer, tapir, and glyptodon can also discovered there
@@prasetyodwikuncorojati2434 The theory does state that both other species and modern humans eventually found the same passage in times of crisis. This is of course just a little fun coincidence that sounds somewhat reasonable; i do not think the similarities were intentional
For those who don’t know, The 1.2 tonne fat-free mass estimate for a *very large* Arctodus specimen comes from a volumetric estimate on the Kansas River giant specimen scaled from others of its kind, where the author calculated via the volumetric method a fat+fur free mass of 1211kg; with these added on, it would likely surpass 1300kg in life. It would also have a shoulder height of 2m or 6”6. Double that on its hind legs. This is an exceptional specimen though, keep in mind.
Do you have the paper for that? I only have this one for the Kansas River specimen liberalarts.tamu.edu/csfa/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2023/07/CRP-18-2001.pdf
off question but how do you think its physical presence and potential height when standing on hind legs would have affected its interactions with other contemporary predators in its ecosystem?
@@AncientWildTV well, the specimen in question would absolutely intimidate anything in its path, including others of its species. It wouldn’t be the fastest, but could fit into the stereotype of being a kleptoparasite. If it did hunt, then big and slower prey would be optimal.
If he's using the largest known specimen for Arctodus, then he should be doing the same for Carnotaurus. It's incredibly disingenuous to use the lower end of size for one and the largest ever found for the other. Also can you point me to any more info on the Kansas River giant specimen, because as far as I can find the upper limit for Arctodus was 1 tonne.
@@MattSinz we only have 1 decently preserved Carnotaurus specimen. And if we used a more typical sized Arctodus, it wouldn’t be that interesting of a fight to be honest lol
For whatever reason, a few days ago I was suddenly inspired to write a short story about a team of explorers bringing a living Carnotaurus back to the San Francisco zoo where it rampages and fights a polar bear. Im glad i came across this video.
This reminds me of the old book that said a grizzly bear could easily defeat a _Tyrannosaurus rex_ due to being a mammal-and therefore warm blooded and far smarter than the cold-blooded and pea-brained oversized lizard.
Oh please, youre ignoring critical points by just saying the larger animal wins. A 7 year old grizzly bear in alberta canada was struck by a car traveling 60mph and walked away unharmed. If that car hits a carno its literally dead, as its leg(s) are likely shattered. A short faced bear being even more massive than the grizzly means that it has even better defense and is much more survivable. Dont sell the bears short, theres much more to the equation than just size, speed, and bite force.
2:09 I ducking HATE that people say that every dinosaur has a weak bite force because the overrated T Rex had a stronger one, dam that's so annoying, Carnotaurus, pound for pound had a even stronger bite than t Rex, also, when tf is 3500N-7500N weak? That can crush the life out of anything that enters it's jaws
It’s not weak but they’re considering that a lion has 4000N while it supposedly has 7500N (which is more) but ppl were expecting more because its a DINOSAUR
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't archosaur/reptile muscles more dense than mammal muscles. Wouldn't that also make Carnotaurus stronger pound by pound?
@@megamente7849 A lot of dinosaurs had the same sort of network of airspaces and hollows in their bones that their avian descendants have. There's even some evidence for having an avian-style one-way respiratory system (more efficient than mammalian respiration).
I think with the weight differences you would have a similar interaction to how that pair of lionesses encountered a honey badger. It might just end in the Carno deciding it isn't worth the trouble
@@HelperKaiGlenn Do you not understand I was replying to the original post? Please tell me your temporarily impaired from 8-12 beers and not really dumb as a rock here as your comments suggest.....
Orcas are even more OP than any dino ever was. Size, speed, bite, pack hunter, top intelligence to adapt their kill techniques (like removing great white shark livers) and on top of all that, they got sonar to communicate to their pod from miles away.....so broken. The entire cat family, for their size are pretty much OP too. But nothing compares to the sheer size and the chompers of Jurassic era dinos.
@@srobeck77 Orcas are much smaller than Large carnivores and speed take the Utahraptor way faster bite Tyrannosaurus Rex solos the Orca for pack hunter if you need size and bite Giganotosaurus it hunted in packs and Tyrannosaurus Rex kill techniques were estimated to kill its pray via decapitation, crushing hadrosaurids by its weight, removing organs and removing specific parts of flesh to disable a dinosaur
@@Eesa9807 please tell me you were drunk when you implied that a T-rex would swim out into the ocean to kill an Orca? Orcas also can weight up to 22,000lbs whereas a T-rex was about the same as that or slightly less.
@@srobeck77 well i supposed spinosaurus could swim and I'm not sayin T-rex will swim all the down to swim and T-rex can actually swim not down only on surface I was just comparing stats because same goes for Orcas they can't come out to the fucking land to kill something but again you were comparing Orcas to dinosaurs orcas aren't Land and Dinosaurs aren't sea your comparison was a comparison so was mine and please tell me you were drunk when you implied that a Orca would swim out to dry land to kill some dinos
@@Eesa9807 Theres no fight happening on land or sea. Plus you also screwed up on the stats. T-Rex are about the same size as an Orca or Orcas are slightly bigger.
This is interesting regarding the size of Arctotherium. Copium Rex actually had a similar thing going on with its femur, the femur was actually shorter than Stan, Sue, and Scotty’s femur but Copium’s was girthier. While Arctotherium’s humerus was shorter than Arctodus by around 2cm it was also girthier by around 2cm as well. I’m not a scientist or anything but it’s something to think about.
The size estimates based on femurs likely weren’t the same between T. rex and bears however, because something like Theropods iirc, you’ll go with the width of the femur not the length. Looking at the study and the post, using humerus length seems to best way to estimate the mass of the bear.
@@denistyrant both the femurs and humerus are weigh bearing bones so I think while there will be some differences in equation I still think it would have similar effects. There’s also (Nicolás E Campione et al 2012-A universal scaling relationship between body mass and proximal limb bone dimensions in quadrupedal terrestrial tetrapods) this is what is said in the conclusion “The conserved nature of the relationship between stylopodial circumference and body mass suggests that the minimum diaphyseal circumference of the major weight-bearing bones is only weakly influenced by the varied forces exerted on the limbs (that is, compression or torsion) and most strongly related to the mass of the animal. Our results, therefore, provide a much-needed, robust, phylogenetically corrected framework for accurate and consistent estimation of body mass in extinct terrestrial quadrupeds.” I also couldn’t find anything on humerus length being a better indicator for mass estimates in general let alone for bears. I personally think only using one equation to estimate an animals mass would also yield a lower sample size. versus multiple equations to find the median/mean mass, which would lead to more accurate or reliable estimate imo.
The whole two ton size estimate for Arctotherium angustidens is far fetched for several reasons. The bone used for the size estimate had been broken and then healed, leading to a far greater diameter than it otherwise would have, thus giving false results when put into the equation. It also ignores that there are multiple known Arctodus bones of the same limb element no less, that are larger than the specimen used in the study, and come from animals that only weighed around 1000kg, meaning the individual bear used to get the 2 ton size estimate would actually be smaller than 1000kg. The equation was also developed using obese brown bears in captive settings, meaning it is effectively useless for calculating the mass of non-obese bears. So, from what material we have, Arctotherium angustidens likely only weighed around 800kg-bigger than any living bear save for the record sized polar bear, but smaller than Arctodus.
@@mhdfrb9971 “The 2ton estimate being far fetched” so you do agree with the paper! Because the paper says itself “The highest predicted value is probably unrealistic” aka the 2ton estimate. Yes the specimen in question had heal damage but what you fail to mention is where on the specimen. The parts that were damaged were the caudal border and deltoid crest. Not the shaft of the humerus. As I pointed out to the individual before you. diaphyseal circumference of the major weight-bearing bones strongly related to the mass of the animal (Nicolás E Campione et al 2012).I have yet to see a Arctodus specimen that surpasses the Arctotherium’s humerus in circumference. But if they are as common as you say they are then it should be no problem to mention them. Which equation was based on an obese brown bear? There’s 6 different equations if you didn’t know, so one being unreliable probably wouldn’t change too much. Was it the 2ton estimate or the other three that put Arctotherium above 1,600kg. So many to choose from lol. So, from one equation from one measurement used (length) of the humerus you guesstimate that the animal weighed 800kg despite the fact that the lowest estimate provided was 983kg so even the lowest estimate of Arctotherium would still make it slightly than the average Arctodus.
@@albino-fish The 800-900 kg size estimate is for the largest known Arctotherium angustidens individual, it’s not the norm for that species. An average of 550-650 kg seems more reasonable for them which is around the same as male polar bears. They were certainly huge bears, we just don’t have the material indicating they matched or surpassed Arctodus simus.
I agree with your assessment and outcome. I still think the Arctodus could hold its own and potentially win a lucky few encounters, however. It’s incredible how strong modern bears are, so I’d imagine that a large male Arctodus would be one of the last mammals any Carnotaurus would want to bother. This was a very interesting breakdown, so I’d like to suggest some future, similar topics. Ceratosaurus vs Daeodon Utahraptor vs American Lion Herrerasaurus vs Hyaenodon Gigas
Bite size vs Jaw size/opening angle pretty much tells us the story here. How does any bear get its mouth open far enough to do any appreciable damage to something with a neck like an oil drum and reach for days?
A 1.3 ton bear could probably wrestle an even heavier carnotaurus with ease. And once the carnotaurus is on the ground it's over. The bear is too intelligent and knows how to fight.
That is how a real situation would go. Predators would not risk their health over nothing, but in a battle to the end, I think the Carno would take it.
Generally yes, but under certain circumstances sometimes predators will risk fighting to the death. When starving and close to death or to protect their young for example.
1:18 Just a reminder, though: nothing below the proximal end of the tibia is known. We honestly don't know what the hindlimb proportions of Carnotaurus was like. The idea of the speedester abelisaurids (or specifically Carnotaurus) is not supported by evidence other than the big hip/tail muscles. The ultra-long legs on the mount are imagination, and not backed up by actual science.
Because of its size in the movie as a kid, I thought that was supposed to be T-Rex, but my aunt was a former paleontologist before her foot was itched falling down a rock during one of her exhibitions, and she was a paleontologist I was I was a pampers, but when I was old enough to watch the movie, she wasn’t a paleontologist anymore, but she’s what gave me all my knowledge about dinosaurs and my dad. Of course heloved it.
You have really bad grammar. Excusable if English isn't your first language with all those run on sentences. Generally, if there's more than 1 or 2 commas, it's a bad sentence.
Do you think a carnotaurus walks away from being struck by a passenger car traveling at 60mph? Because a 7 year old grizzly bear did in alberta canada... My money is on the bear as it is much more defensible than carnotaurus and has more weapons during the attack. The carno has its jaws, but the bear has complex arms and legs and jaws and it can use them all much more effectively. You cant downplay the defebsive qualities of the fur, the thick hide, and the large layer of blubber which protects critical organs and major blood vessels. The carno falls apart when it comes to its survivability. A "natural" wild encounter has both animals not wanting to fuck with the other, but a forced fight is different and i think the bear would surprise you.
You gave the advantage in stability to the animal with 2 legs instead of four? Keep in mind speed and agility doesnt mean a whole lot if the other animal is able to instantly position himself in better footing because hes got 4 legs and youve only got two. Regardless i think ill stikl have to agree with you on the outcome.
What people ALWAYS get wrong about Carnotaurus are it's horns, due to the body of it and it's diet, they're clearly designed for stabbing it's prey while running along side or directly into them in the right angle, also why it's arms are basically not existent because of it's blatant build for ramming at high speeds, and why they were known for not having a high bite force since they can just inflict more greater internal damage to their prey that a simple bite couldn't do, with the ram being aided by the speed and force of the impact when said horns go into their prey to cause said internal damage.
My money is on the bear, sure its smaller but bears are tanks... a 7 year old grizzly bear in alberta canada was struck by a passenger car traveling at 60mph and the bear just walked away with a mild concussion. That thick hide and layer of blubber is incredible for defense, and the carnotauras doesnt really have the defensive tools to hang in a fight. Carno could win if it manages to successfully ambush the bear but i cant see that happening as bears have INCREDIBLE senses. The strength of the bear can not be understated either, not to mention it just has more tools for offense and defense. Theres more to the discussion than bite force, speed, and size/mass. If this is a canned fight, my money is on the bear, if they happened upon eachother in a natural environment, they both walk away because the juice isnt worth the squeeze for either of them. Bears have incredible stamina and energy reserves, so unless the bear just came out of hibernation, it can outpace the carno. We know bears fight eachother regularly so id also say that the bear would have more experience fighting than the carno.
If the bear can get the dino knocked on its side, it would have a better than fair chance of winning. Predators that can use forelimb/arms to pin opponents to the ground, especially those without forelimbs that can rotate or have some sort of forward motion, have a huge advantage in the ground game. We see this today with predators such as cats and bears, animals that can bring down prey larger than themselves. If the bear cannot take the fight to the ground, it's over for Arctodus--he becomes a meal.
Before having even watched this video, I'm going short faced bear all the way. Yes, i know it is half the size. Doesn't matter. Carnotaurus had one weapon. It's bite, which wasn't that powerful and it's teeth weren't particularly large. The osteoderms on its body were largely on the back and wouldn't have provided as much protection as people think. I would bet money that the horns were not weapons. If they were, they would have ONLY been used for pushing matches against other carnotaurus' and not against other species for hunting or defense. The short faced bear on the other hand has more weapons that each do more damage. The bite was much more powerful. The canine teeth were much larger than anything in a carnotaurus' mouth. The paws had huge claws backed by extremely powerful muscles. And not only could it use those paws and claws for extremely powerful blows, easily capable of breaking bones in the carnotaurus, but it could also use them for gripping, ripping, tearing, and most importantly, grappling. As far as defenses, bears have skin like dogs and cats, which is loosely attached to the body, allowing the animal to "move around in its own skin". This may not sound like much, but it is an incredibly effective defensive armor. Anything biting the bear is likely to just get a mouth full of skin folds, making the bite largely ineffective. Anybody with a dog or cat that has ever tried to immobilize their head by holding the neck knows it is nearly impossible to do so. Now combine that with a very thick layer of subcutaneous fat. So thick that none of the carnotaurus' teeth are long enough to get through it. Not even close. And as Joe Rogan is famous for saying, bears know judo. Sounds ridiculous and is only a slight exaggeration, but bears regularly perform real grappling moves like hip tosses, head locks, picks, and many others. They are exceptional grapplers. I see the carnotaurus charging in and biting the bear, getting a mouth full of loose skin, and starts shaking its head thinking it's doing real damage when it isn't. The bear can now turn in its skin, bite onto the carno, easily peircing the scales with its large canines and powerful jaws. The bear would simultaneously wrap its forearms around the carno's neck, twist, pulling it off balance, and dragging it to the ground. And that's it. Once the carno is on the ground, the bear pins it and starts ripping it to pieces, targeting the unarmored belly and neck. Now after watching the video... He explained that the carno bite force was much weaker than the bear, but then gave the bite force advantage to the carno? The carno could not have been more agile than the bear. Pure running speed ≠ agility. The carno was larger, longer, and bipedal. That is a huge lever that needs to pivot around a single point on two legs. A quadrupedal bear half the weight would be much more agile even if it was a slower runner. A bear standing on two legs is absolutely not in any sort of disadvantage. Just watch bears fighting. They stand on their hind legs on purpose and they are exceptionally stable while doing so. They don't get "knocked over" so easily. Just because they prefer to travel on all 4s doesn't mean they aren't perfectly comfortable and able to fight while on two legs. In fact it is their preferred fighting stance. So yeah, i say the short faced bear wins 8/10 times.
@@princevermilion8799 can you give examples? Jacksons chameleons are one example that do, some are for defense though like Horned lizards but that still has a use other than display, its important not to confuse true horns with crests or casques seen on many birds/ dinosaurs
Your stats are a bit misleading, 1.3 tonnes is the upper limit for the Short-Faced bears, where as 1.35 tonnes is the low end for Carnotaurus. If you going to use the upper limit for one you should be using the upper limit for the other(which in the case of Carnotaurus is over 2 tonnes).
If they were close to equal in size I think it's a 50/50 shot as to who wins. Carnotaurus could land a bite on arctodus front limb and from there it might be game over depending on the bite or maybe land a bite on the neck. On the other hand bears regularly bite the ever loving shit out of each other and fight like Olympic Greco-Roman wrestlers. They're much more stable bipedally than given credit for here. If the arctodus came rushing on all fours and stood up quickly as bears often do, it could bite the carnos neck with it's arms wrapped around. Bears power is often severely underestimated in these types of videos and to this day we have no way of accurately measuring their strength, let alone an extinct bear. Just look at the Sloth Bear vs Bengal Tiger. Yes Bengals do kill them but Sloth Bears often return the favor or scare the Tigers off because it's not worth the risk but then they go drop a 2800lbs Guar. Like I said, if it's close in size 50/50 is probably the most likely outcome, or they just give each other a wide birth.
Wrong, there’s multiple problems with this. While yes, they can stand up on their hind legs, the stability isn’t going to be as good as something like Carnotaurus, especially since they don’t have a large muscular tail to keep them stable. This would leave them vulnerable to being knocked over, especially since when intraspecific conflicts, bears tend to get rag dolled when they’re both standing on their hind legs. Something like Carnotaurus would have far better stability when it comes to bipedal stance, and it’s not even close. Now for the biting, even with that being said, bears aren’t adapted for landing quick and fatal bites like Felids, and to land such a well placed bite, Arctodus is going to have to keep Carnotaurus in a good place. One could say sure, the bears strength is underestimated but so are dinosaurs and in general macropredatory reptiles like crocodiles, especially when compared to bears. I should mention as well unlike canine teeth, ziphodont teeth isn’t dependent on going to softer areas such as the neck, they can go for any area, as along as they get a good bite in, it would cause serious bleeding for the animal.
The dinosaur ecosystem was far more dangerous than the Pleistocene. The animals are much tougher, more aggressive, and frequently armored and armed with defensive weapons. I doubt any mammalian predator would stand a chance even against like sized herbivores.
I think the bear would run and avoid a fight, but one with experience and their probably much more intelligent would use its arms and get control of its long neck. They do this with mooses they'll even control the antlers and pull its head down and tire it out.
Environment and diseases aside, more than likely short-face would be terrified and make all of its efforts into scaring away carno. Carno would be confused and probably wouldnt find the bear worth it, stat-wise Carno probably on average weighed more. So even equalization the mammal doesn't win but something wasnt taken into account that normal brown bears do, is grappling. I think the bear would try to shove and grapple the head of the carno as bad as an Idea that is, still interesting.
I don’t know why, but for some reason, I thought this video was about Carnotaurus vs. a Polar Bear (instead of Short-Faced Bear). Well, at least it’s a bit more of a formidable hypothetical opponent (Polar Bear probably wouldn’t last 3 minutes).
Any smaller-medium size and larger carnivorous dinosaur would absolutely NERF any carnivorous mammal, alive or extinct. We’re talking about an entirely different league of deadliness. Anything on the scale of Utahraptor and up is only going to be matched by another dinosaur/archosaur (predatory).
Carno's big advantage would be gone after the initial charge, if the fight ever goes to the ground then the bear would have advantage. In short it would be decided in a moment, despite being a drawn out encounter.
I wonder what Carno's resting heart rate would be? Reptiles generally tend to have lower metabolic rates than mammals, leaving them prone to exhaustion after quick bursts of energy. Caimans have been observed to have resting heart rate in the single digits that rise to the 30s and 40s of bpm when sighting prey. Conversely, polar bears have a resting heart rate in the 40s and 50s of bpm. This would likely increase during predation and combat, but I haven't found numbers on that. This would make a big difference in a prolonged fight, with the reptilian Carno tiring out after it's initial attack/struggle. Fights between similarly sized male Grizzly bears during the mating season can be prolonged encounters. I've seen footage of some lasting well over 10 minutes. Now I'm unsure if this means the short faced bear would have more stamina than the Carno, given the larger size of the Shortface compared to modern bears. But if the stark contrast between the metabolic rates of mammals and reptilians applied in this fight, I'd say that the Carno would have a smaller window of opportunity to win than the bear. Now if the Carno bore a similar metabolic rate to living terrestrial birds like Ostriches or Cassowary, which have resting bpm around the 40s and 50s and a range similar to that of mammals, there wouldn't be as much of a discrepency. Also for some reason, six flags new england says Carnos may have hunted in packs, although I can't find any other support for that claim. If that was true then the bear would lose as there would likely be more carnos.
It’s very likely Carnotaurus had higher metabolic rates than other reptiles. It was at least an mesotherm, with some studies even suggests that suggests that many dinosaurs were endothermic, having a metabolic rate higher than mammals and closer to that of birds.
Archosaurs (which is the greater clade including crocodiles and dinosaurs) are ancestrally endothermic, and have a superior respiratory system to mammals, this is most well seen in birds (which have even higher internal temperatures than mammals) but even crocodiles, which split off from the dinosaur clade very early, have the superior lungs, despite having a much more sedentary lifestyle and secondarily reevolving ectothermy. Other than the lungs themselves being more efficient, by using a four-chamber valve system that insures air is constantly entering the lungs instead of the mammalian lungs having to breath in and out, dinosaurian bodies also had a bunch of air sacs delivering oxygen all over the body too. This actually means that dinosaurs were probably better in endurance than most mammals. That being said bears do have an exceptionally high endurance for mammals, so its not as set in stone. I would say arctodus would be probably equal or at a small to medium disadvantage, but its likely both have enough endurance to last until one kills the other, which is basically the only metric that maters.
i think the carnosaurus would win 8-9 out of every 10 encounters. we got to remember that the momentum of the carnotarus would also be transferred to the bear, meaning that it most likely would be flung backwards if it got hit, opening up opportunities for the carnotaurus to attack
The dino has the edge in size and intimidation however -- total lack of arms would be a distinct handicap in a carnivore vs. carnivore duel. Arms can come in pretty "handy."
arctodis would win in my opinion. smarter better armed and more stable. the canotaurus could easily be toppled over and wasn't much of a grappler, while arctodis was quite good at wrestling..it had lots of practice. The biggest advantage was it's intelligence.
Amazing video and I agree with the outcome but he did get a few things wrong about the carno. For starters the carno was not good at quick turns quite the opposite actually it’s tail was wide and thick but did not have a lot of maneuverability which is what most therapods rely on to turn. Second of all it was not an ambush hunter taking in the fact that it could not turn very quickly means it most likely hunted on open plains where it would pretty much race its prey and bite at it in quick succession until it dropped not one large bite to drop it in one go. And finally I pretty much just said it but it did not rely on its bite force but rather its bite speed to take down prey.
Have you seen Grizzlies fighting each other? Even if they stand up, they are not that easy to throw down, and if, they go down , they are up again in a second...
Do your homework. They we dead for 60,000,000 years! Now. The short face bear, or smidon, were there and other cats, dire wolves, lions, the list goes on!
@thetruthfornow6045 you just enforced the fact that you're an idiot! Dinosaurs lived mostly in the Jurassic era, but they hung in there well into the Centosoric era ! Keep making a damn fool outta yourself, you've made a great example of your party!! Idiots are us!!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
It always amazes me how mid sized predators were still bigger than 99% of the land predators we have today.
What’s the 1%
Unless it’s smaller than a Polar/Kodiak bear, than it’s larger than 100% of all land predators today.
100%*. Largest polar bear is 1 ton. Even mid sized Theropod Allosaurus reached 3 tons
@@leaguenpaleontology23 no, the largest polar bear without extra fat should be 700 kg.
Ikr? Predatory dinosaurs are in a different league when it comes to size amazing scary creatures
This is a mismatch. Carnotaurus was over twice as massive as arctodus ( on average ) and still significantly larger when using the largest specimen. The dinosaur would overpower the bear. A more fair matchup is with Majungasaurus instead.
Yo man u still alive?
@@DocAllo yeah but im too busy to make videos atm
@@DocAllo what happened to your videos?
@@TheKingWolf470 i think it was enough of the channel
@@DocAlloHe actually is very active in different channels community posts unlike u
Some dinosaurs fr just gave up on having arms
Well you wouldn't really need them if you're evolved to have a massive, bone eviscerating mouth instead. You don't need to really grab onto anything if all it takes is one bite
Even modern ratites have reduced forelimbs
@@Mr.V1111 id still need them to wipe on own arse
@@SuperBetaBuxbros.Those are herbivores and ostriches still have relatively large wings.
They will never give you a hand.
Carnotaurus: Stand proud Arctodus you are strong.
Arctodus: What is this?
Arctodus: Tears?🖐
Carnotaurus: Good question i wouldn't know.
Stop these nonsense ✋
@MonsterZilla856 🙃: Nah I'd meme.
Till' the tyrannosaurus enters the picture
@@leaguenpaleontology23
Sit ashamed, you are not him
@@GoofyBONbon Then Paleoloxodon Namidicus clears it's throat and looks DOWN on the Carnotaurus, The Short Faced Bear and the T Rex.
9:20 this is actually wrong. The reason why the short face bear was so rare at the tar pits is because it lived in more open habitat areas the tar pits, mostly take place in the forest and areas. That’s why there are sabertooth cats and dire wolves at the tar pits more than short faced bears and American lions.
Mostly take place in the forest and what areas?
The reason given by the authors of the paper is that all the three bear species recovered from the Tar Pits were likely not regularly competing for carcasses (at least not at the rate the hypercarnivores were competing for said carcasses), with lower population densities to boot. Arctodus simus was recorded at its baseline continental abundance, though from a shorter time window.
@SuperTah33 it’s not just that it’s also because the short face bear was also a nomad because basically the entire continent was its habitat
@Dramn_ that I don’t know
@@tyrannotherium7873 Oh okay thank you
“Well if the bear got up on its hind legs it might cause me some trouble…”
But would you lose?
“Nah, I’d win”
Bear uses stand up, Carnotaurus uses charge and tackle, its super effective.
And drops to the floor.
@@Rafael-w4j ok but bears, with the higher intelligence could just change its tactic to fighting on all fours. Or the bear could stand up to the charge, side stepping, pushing its head to the side and then giving a near fatal blow from its paw swipe across the neck.
It’s very unlikely that Carnotaurus would’ve used its head to charge at animals
The horns are purely ornamental, they cant use them as weapons in any capacity. The bear however is known to charge at its prey and could easily wrestle with a carno because you have to think about how they are close in size and that bears wrestle eachother often in nature
@@srobeck77 Since when do animals fight with such intelligence in nature you're typing a bunch of bull that would never happen.
Do argentinosaurus vs a rat
Now that is just unfair. That rat will eat argentinosaurus alive
@@TheOverseerDebates Next Tyrannosaurus Rex vs hippopotamus
@@TheOverseerDebates kind of like this battle.
A bear half a carno's mass would get demolished.
@@Quwucuqinhippopotamus kills tyrannosaurus using it's killing sight
@@DreamerOfTheSouth yep, that was obvious
Bro, great video👍 Your channel is popping off!! I like how you kept it as accurate as possible (I liked how you even referenced the debate on whether the limbs of the bear made it a poor grappler or not). I pretty much agree with the verdict :) Keep up the amazing work 🐻🦖
Appreciate it!
When are you gonna post more dinosaur vs mammal content cc I need more
Finally, after a while, your new Overseer video was successful again!!! it was a particular clash and unique💪
More to come!
I have a theory that the movie dinosaur was a prequel to The movie Land before Time and it was just a story of how the valley came to be.
The valley isn't exactly created in that movie, they just find an entry to it.
There's another theory out there about Dinosaur being a prequel to The Lost World (the classic film, not thr JP film)
@@addictedtochocolate920 that's explain a lot why the dinosaurs can live unbothered after several millions years of their actual extinction date. But the refugia also hold various other animals that existed before dinosaurs like labyrinthodont amphibian and even several animals that appear after dinosaur extinction can reached the valley one by one. Hence deer, tapir, and glyptodon can also discovered there
@@prasetyodwikuncorojati2434 The theory does state that both other species and modern humans eventually found the same passage in times of crisis. This is of course just a little fun coincidence that sounds somewhat reasonable; i do not think the similarities were intentional
For those who don’t know, The 1.2 tonne fat-free mass estimate for a *very large* Arctodus specimen comes from a volumetric estimate on the Kansas River giant specimen scaled from others of its kind, where the author calculated via the volumetric method a fat+fur free mass of 1211kg; with these added on, it would likely surpass 1300kg in life. It would also have a shoulder height of 2m or 6”6. Double that on its hind legs. This is an exceptional specimen though, keep in mind.
Do you have the paper for that? I only have this one for the Kansas River specimen
liberalarts.tamu.edu/csfa/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2023/07/CRP-18-2001.pdf
off question but how do you think its physical presence and potential height when standing on hind legs would have affected its interactions with other contemporary predators in its ecosystem?
@@AncientWildTV well, the specimen in question would absolutely intimidate anything in its path, including others of its species. It wouldn’t be the fastest, but could fit into the stereotype of being a kleptoparasite. If it did hunt, then big and slower prey would be optimal.
If he's using the largest known specimen for Arctodus, then he should be doing the same for Carnotaurus. It's incredibly disingenuous to use the lower end of size for one and the largest ever found for the other. Also can you point me to any more info on the Kansas River giant specimen, because as far as I can find the upper limit for Arctodus was 1 tonne.
@@MattSinz we only have 1 decently preserved Carnotaurus specimen. And if we used a more typical sized Arctodus, it wouldn’t be that interesting of a fight to be honest lol
For whatever reason, a few days ago I was suddenly inspired to write a short story about a team of explorers bringing a living Carnotaurus back to the San Francisco zoo where it rampages and fights a polar bear. Im glad i came across this video.
Wonder if the Carno in your story won?
@TheOverseerDebates it does, but the SWAT team takes it down when it gets out of the zoo. It's sort of a King Kong/Lost World story
I first saw Carnotaurus from Dinosaur King. Dinosaurs were my childhood.
Dinosaur King was a goated show
@@TheOverseerDebates Absolutely
@@TheOverseerDebatesyou shall be correct
@@TheOverseerDebates I concur
Great show
Carnotaurus vs Short Faced Bear = Hypsilophodon wins.
Psittacosaurus solos
🧢 Microraptor Slams
@@TheOverseerDebates another psittacosaurus enjoyer???
Nah microceratus solos
Cap yinlong demolishes
This reminds me of the old book that said a grizzly bear could easily defeat a _Tyrannosaurus rex_ due to being a mammal-and therefore warm blooded and far smarter than the cold-blooded and pea-brained oversized lizard.
What book was it please 😂😂😂
That's absurd, a grizzly is like a chihuahua that would nip at a t-rex's ankles 😂
That's like saying a human can beat a saltwater crocodile in a straight up fight for the same reasons.
Well since we're reading bs might as well pick the acclaimed book "Hot wet Allosuarus summer", yes it is a real book! 😂
I found a worse one, when it said a pack of velociraptors could beat a T-Rex☠️
aside from the battle being a mismatch due to the size discrepancy this video is a W as always.
Oh please, youre ignoring critical points by just saying the larger animal wins. A 7 year old grizzly bear in alberta canada was struck by a car traveling 60mph and walked away unharmed. If that car hits a carno its literally dead, as its leg(s) are likely shattered. A short faced bear being even more massive than the grizzly means that it has even better defense and is much more survivable. Dont sell the bears short, theres much more to the equation than just size, speed, and bite force.
@@g00gleisgayerthanaids56Bears can't drive
Some of the colour patterns on the paleoart are absolutely gorgeous.
Carnotaurus is such an ancient animal that its very difficult to predict how this animal would behave however we know bears pretty well.
well like a mixture of crocodiles and raptors
2:09 I ducking HATE that people say that every dinosaur has a weak bite force because the overrated T Rex had a stronger one, dam that's so annoying, Carnotaurus, pound for pound had a even stronger bite than t Rex, also, when tf is 3500N-7500N weak? That can crush the life out of anything that enters it's jaws
You ok bud?
@11jerans lol yes btw, just ranting, but how about u?
It’s not weak but they’re considering that a lion has 4000N while it supposedly has 7500N (which is more) but ppl were expecting more because its a DINOSAUR
Carnotaurus was way stronger , way larger , way faster and way tougher and way dangerous and fearsome than Arctodus.
Bear better
should have used arcthotherium not arctodus
@@alfrdhrnndz Still Carnotaurus would win
@@amitpalit4343 yes. It was a stupid matchup
Arcthotherium would win it was 13 feet over 3k pounds
2:38 those little cute arms made me look at carnosaurus like it was a puppy asking for attention😂
Correct me if I'm mistaken,
but aren't archosaur/reptile muscles more dense than mammal muscles. Wouldn't that also make Carnotaurus stronger pound by pound?
mammals have denser bones and muscles than those of reptiles (including archosaurs)
@@asiergonzalez4060Not really, especially since reptiles like crocodiles are far more explosive than many mammals of similar size
@@asiergonzalez4060you are thinking about birds, teropods dont neded empty bones
@@megamente7849 A lot of dinosaurs had the same sort of network of airspaces and hollows in their bones that their avian descendants have. There's even some evidence for having an avian-style one-way respiratory system (more efficient than mammalian respiration).
@@svenofthejunglewell the avain style Respiratory isn't just bird-exclusive crocodilians have them too.
Thank you for giving Carnotaurus some love.
Great video!
3:16 HAPPY DANCE. HAPPY DANCE. HAPPY DANCE😂😂😂😂
I'd like to see a breakdown of similar sized cats versus dromeosaurs
Hell yeah. Smilodon vs Utah raptor
American lion vs deinonychus
I think with the weight differences you would have a similar interaction to how that pair of lionesses encountered a honey badger.
It might just end in the Carno deciding it isn't worth the trouble
I've Just found your channel today and its been great! You're very well informed and make good quality videos. I look forward to seeing more from you
Glad you enjoyed!
I read "shit faced beard" lol
thats what generally happens 8-12 beers in
@@srobeck77Speaking from experience?
@@HelperKaiGlenn youve never once heard of impaired driving symptoms in a DUI? Not good....
@@srobeck77 I don't drink at least not enough to get drunk and even if I did, I don't drive. So I don't really need to know that stuff.
@@HelperKaiGlenn Do you not understand I was replying to the original post? Please tell me your temporarily impaired from 8-12 beers and not really dumb as a rock here as your comments suggest.....
Dinosaurs were OP, the devs definitely made the right move by removing them from the server
Orcas are even more OP than any dino ever was. Size, speed, bite, pack hunter, top intelligence to adapt their kill techniques (like removing great white shark livers) and on top of all that, they got sonar to communicate to their pod from miles away.....so broken.
The entire cat family, for their size are pretty much OP too. But nothing compares to the sheer size and the chompers of Jurassic era dinos.
@@srobeck77 Orcas are much smaller than Large carnivores and speed take the Utahraptor way faster bite Tyrannosaurus Rex solos the Orca for pack hunter if you need size and bite Giganotosaurus it hunted in packs and Tyrannosaurus Rex kill techniques were estimated to kill its pray via decapitation, crushing hadrosaurids by its weight, removing organs and removing specific parts of flesh to disable a dinosaur
@@Eesa9807 please tell me you were drunk when you implied that a T-rex would swim out into the ocean to kill an Orca? Orcas also can weight up to 22,000lbs whereas a T-rex was about the same as that or slightly less.
@@srobeck77 well i supposed spinosaurus could swim and I'm not sayin T-rex will swim all the down to swim and T-rex can actually swim not down only on surface I was just comparing stats because same goes for Orcas they can't come out to the fucking land to kill something but again you were comparing Orcas to dinosaurs orcas aren't Land and Dinosaurs aren't sea your comparison was a comparison so was mine and please tell me you were drunk when you implied that a Orca would swim out to dry land to kill some dinos
@@Eesa9807 Theres no fight happening on land or sea. Plus you also screwed up on the stats. T-Rex are about the same size as an Orca or Orcas are slightly bigger.
This is interesting regarding the size of Arctotherium.
Copium Rex actually had a similar thing going on with its femur, the femur was actually shorter than Stan, Sue, and Scotty’s femur but Copium’s was girthier.
While Arctotherium’s humerus was shorter than Arctodus by around 2cm it was also girthier by around 2cm as well.
I’m not a scientist or anything but it’s something to think about.
The size estimates based on femurs likely weren’t the same between T. rex and bears however, because something like Theropods iirc, you’ll go with the width of the femur not the length. Looking at the study and the post, using humerus length seems to best way to estimate the mass of the bear.
@@denistyrant both the femurs and humerus are weigh bearing bones so I think while there will be some differences in equation I still think it would have similar effects.
There’s also (Nicolás E Campione et al 2012-A universal scaling relationship between body mass and proximal limb bone dimensions in quadrupedal terrestrial tetrapods) this is what is said in the conclusion
“The conserved nature of the relationship between stylopodial circumference and body mass suggests that the minimum diaphyseal circumference of the major weight-bearing bones is only weakly influenced by the varied forces exerted on the limbs (that is, compression or torsion) and most strongly related to the mass of the animal. Our results, therefore, provide a much-needed, robust, phylogenetically corrected framework for accurate and consistent estimation of body mass in extinct terrestrial quadrupeds.”
I also couldn’t find anything on humerus length being a better indicator for mass estimates in general let alone for bears. I personally think only using one equation to estimate an animals mass would also yield a lower sample size. versus multiple equations to find the median/mean mass, which would lead to more accurate or reliable estimate imo.
The whole two ton size estimate for Arctotherium angustidens is far fetched for several reasons. The bone used for the size estimate had been broken and then healed, leading to a far greater diameter than it otherwise would have, thus giving false results when put into the equation.
It also ignores that there are multiple known Arctodus bones of the same limb element no less, that are larger than the specimen used in the study, and come from animals that only weighed around 1000kg, meaning the individual bear used to get the 2 ton size estimate would actually be smaller than 1000kg. The equation was also developed using obese brown bears in captive settings, meaning it is effectively useless for calculating the mass of non-obese bears.
So, from what material we have, Arctotherium angustidens likely only weighed around 800kg-bigger than any living bear save for the record sized polar bear, but smaller than Arctodus.
@@mhdfrb9971 “The 2ton estimate being far fetched” so you do agree with the paper! Because the paper says itself “The highest predicted value is probably unrealistic” aka the 2ton estimate.
Yes the specimen in question had heal damage but what you fail to mention is where on the specimen. The parts that were damaged were the caudal border and deltoid crest. Not the shaft of the humerus.
As I pointed out to the individual before you. diaphyseal circumference of the major weight-bearing bones strongly related to the mass of the animal (Nicolás E Campione et al 2012).I have yet to see a Arctodus specimen that surpasses the Arctotherium’s humerus in circumference. But if they are as common as you say they are then it should be no problem to mention them.
Which equation was based on an obese brown bear? There’s 6 different equations if you didn’t know, so one being unreliable probably wouldn’t change too much. Was it the 2ton estimate or the other three that put Arctotherium above 1,600kg. So many to choose from lol.
So, from one equation from one measurement used (length) of the humerus you guesstimate that the animal weighed 800kg despite the fact that the lowest estimate provided was 983kg so even the lowest estimate of Arctotherium would still make it slightly than the average Arctodus.
@@albino-fish The 800-900 kg size estimate is for the largest known Arctotherium angustidens individual, it’s not the norm for that species. An average of 550-650 kg seems more reasonable for them which is around the same as male polar bears. They were certainly huge bears, we just don’t have the material indicating they matched or surpassed Arctodus simus.
love the video
I agree with your assessment and outcome. I still think the Arctodus could hold its own and potentially win a lucky few encounters, however. It’s incredible how strong modern bears are, so I’d imagine that a large male Arctodus would be one of the last mammals any Carnotaurus would want to bother. This was a very interesting breakdown, so I’d like to suggest some future, similar topics.
Ceratosaurus vs Daeodon
Utahraptor vs American Lion
Herrerasaurus vs Hyaenodon Gigas
What the T-Rex in the comic panel did not take into account is the Mammals had called in Air Support from an AC 130 Gunship. :D
Bite size vs Jaw size/opening angle pretty much tells us the story here. How does any bear get its mouth open far enough to do any appreciable damage to something with a neck like an oil drum and reach for days?
Where did you get the first clip t rex vs modern animals from ?
mfw you pit the nearly 2 ton carnotaurus against a bear half its size
era of terror video when?!!??!!?!!?
Hey Scanova! Love your vids man, hope your doing well 👍
And yet, the bear likely wins
A 1.3 ton bear could probably wrestle an even heavier carnotaurus with ease. And once the carnotaurus is on the ground it's over. The bear is too intelligent and knows how to fight.
The two are similar in size, but this is still an unfair fight. Carnotaurus wins mid-high difficulty
2:38 never have i ever thought i would think a carnotaurus to be cute still my favorite dino
the fact that he used the LARGEST bear and SMALLEST carno and carno still wins
Can you make a Video on Asiatic Lion Vs. American Alligator?
This wouldn't be that much different than a lion vs mile croc. Lion/tiger will have advantage on land and gator/croc would have advantage the water.
2:36
Bro's got that dino rizz
I feel like a good couple swipes from the bear would make the carno retreat since it would think the fight isn't worth being badly injured
That is how a real situation would go. Predators would not risk their health over nothing, but in a battle to the end, I think the Carno would take it.
@@TheOverseerDebates Agreed, great video boss
Generally yes, but under certain circumstances sometimes predators will risk fighting to the death. When starving and close to death or to protect their young for example.
1:18 Just a reminder, though: nothing below the proximal end of the tibia is known. We honestly don't know what the hindlimb proportions of Carnotaurus was like. The idea of the speedester abelisaurids (or specifically Carnotaurus) is not supported by evidence other than the big hip/tail muscles. The ultra-long legs on the mount are imagination, and not backed up by actual science.
Because of its size in the movie as a kid, I thought that was supposed to be T-Rex, but my aunt was a former paleontologist before her foot was itched falling down a rock during one of her exhibitions, and she was a paleontologist I was I was a pampers, but when I was old enough to watch the movie, she wasn’t a paleontologist anymore, but she’s what gave me all my knowledge about dinosaurs and my dad. Of course heloved it.
You have really bad grammar. Excusable if English isn't your first language with all those run on sentences. Generally, if there's more than 1 or 2 commas, it's a bad sentence.
Don’t worry it be like that sometimes 😂😂
Humungous Apex Dinosaur VS A “Giant” Bear……I do believe it’s pretty obvious who the default winner is.
@PajeetHunter67 my thoughts exactly.
Do you think a carnotaurus walks away from being struck by a passenger car traveling at 60mph? Because a 7 year old grizzly bear did in alberta canada...
My money is on the bear as it is much more defensible than carnotaurus and has more weapons during the attack. The carno has its jaws, but the bear has complex arms and legs and jaws and it can use them all much more effectively. You cant downplay the defebsive qualities of the fur, the thick hide, and the large layer of blubber which protects critical organs and major blood vessels. The carno falls apart when it comes to its survivability. A "natural" wild encounter has both animals not wanting to fuck with the other, but a forced fight is different and i think the bear would surprise you.
You gave the advantage in stability to the animal with 2 legs instead of four? Keep in mind speed and agility doesnt mean a whole lot if the other animal is able to instantly position himself in better footing because hes got 4 legs and youve only got two. Regardless i think ill stikl have to agree with you on the outcome.
What people ALWAYS get wrong about Carnotaurus are it's horns, due to the body of it and it's diet, they're clearly designed for stabbing it's prey while running along side or directly into them in the right angle, also why it's arms are basically not existent because of it's blatant build for ramming at high speeds, and why they were known for not having a high bite force since they can just inflict more greater internal damage to their prey that a simple bite couldn't do, with the ram being aided by the speed and force of the impact when said horns go into their prey to cause said internal damage.
Its more likely that theyre for mate selection than any real pragmatic use.
If the short-faced bear is mindful of his footwork and can establish his jab he should be able to get the W.
Its all about controlling the void
A ceratasaurus would have been a better match. As it is, I think everyone is massively underestimating how vigorously a bear will defend itself.
My money is on the bear, sure its smaller but bears are tanks... a 7 year old grizzly bear in alberta canada was struck by a passenger car traveling at 60mph and the bear just walked away with a mild concussion. That thick hide and layer of blubber is incredible for defense, and the carnotauras doesnt really have the defensive tools to hang in a fight. Carno could win if it manages to successfully ambush the bear but i cant see that happening as bears have INCREDIBLE senses. The strength of the bear can not be understated either, not to mention it just has more tools for offense and defense. Theres more to the discussion than bite force, speed, and size/mass. If this is a canned fight, my money is on the bear, if they happened upon eachother in a natural environment, they both walk away because the juice isnt worth the squeeze for either of them. Bears have incredible stamina and energy reserves, so unless the bear just came out of hibernation, it can outpace the carno. We know bears fight eachother regularly so id also say that the bear would have more experience fighting than the carno.
That comic at the opening🤣🤣
Join us this week to see who will win between a trex and a raccoon! After 65 million years of wondering we'll finally settle this debate.
The Carnotaurus had Devil like hornes
Trex was most robust theropod
If the bear can get the dino knocked on its side, it would have a better than fair chance of winning. Predators that can use forelimb/arms to pin opponents to the ground, especially those without forelimbs that can rotate or have some sort of forward motion, have a huge advantage in the ground game. We see this today with predators such as cats and bears, animals that can bring down prey larger than themselves. If the bear cannot take the fight to the ground, it's over for Arctodus--he becomes a meal.
kinda wanna try to animate such a fight
Before having even watched this video, I'm going short faced bear all the way.
Yes, i know it is half the size. Doesn't matter.
Carnotaurus had one weapon. It's bite, which wasn't that powerful and it's teeth weren't particularly large. The osteoderms on its body were largely on the back and wouldn't have provided as much protection as people think. I would bet money that the horns were not weapons. If they were, they would have ONLY been used for pushing matches against other carnotaurus' and not against other species for hunting or defense.
The short faced bear on the other hand has more weapons that each do more damage. The bite was much more powerful. The canine teeth were much larger than anything in a carnotaurus' mouth. The paws had huge claws backed by extremely powerful muscles. And not only could it use those paws and claws for extremely powerful blows, easily capable of breaking bones in the carnotaurus, but it could also use them for gripping, ripping, tearing, and most importantly, grappling. As far as defenses, bears have skin like dogs and cats, which is loosely attached to the body, allowing the animal to "move around in its own skin". This may not sound like much, but it is an incredibly effective defensive armor. Anything biting the bear is likely to just get a mouth full of skin folds, making the bite largely ineffective. Anybody with a dog or cat that has ever tried to immobilize their head by holding the neck knows it is nearly impossible to do so.
Now combine that with a very thick layer of subcutaneous fat. So thick that none of the carnotaurus' teeth are long enough to get through it. Not even close.
And as Joe Rogan is famous for saying, bears know judo. Sounds ridiculous and is only a slight exaggeration, but bears regularly perform real grappling moves like hip tosses, head locks, picks, and many others. They are exceptional grapplers.
I see the carnotaurus charging in and biting the bear, getting a mouth full of loose skin, and starts shaking its head thinking it's doing real damage when it isn't. The bear can now turn in its skin, bite onto the carno, easily peircing the scales with its large canines and powerful jaws. The bear would simultaneously wrap its forearms around the carno's neck, twist, pulling it off balance, and dragging it to the ground. And that's it. Once the carno is on the ground, the bear pins it and starts ripping it to pieces, targeting the unarmored belly and neck.
Now after watching the video...
He explained that the carno bite force was much weaker than the bear, but then gave the bite force advantage to the carno?
The carno could not have been more agile than the bear. Pure running speed ≠ agility. The carno was larger, longer, and bipedal. That is a huge lever that needs to pivot around a single point on two legs. A quadrupedal bear half the weight would be much more agile even if it was a slower runner.
A bear standing on two legs is absolutely not in any sort of disadvantage. Just watch bears fighting. They stand on their hind legs on purpose and they are exceptionally stable while doing so. They don't get "knocked over" so easily. Just because they prefer to travel on all 4s doesn't mean they aren't perfectly comfortable and able to fight while on two legs. In fact it is their preferred fighting stance.
So yeah, i say the short faced bear wins 8/10 times.
All modern animals that have true horns use them so i agree they probably used them in intraspecific competition
Lots of horned reptiles don't use them for anything beyond display
@@princevermilion8799 can you give examples? Jacksons chameleons are one example that do, some are for defense though like Horned lizards but that still has a use other than display, its important not to confuse true horns with crests or casques seen on many birds/ dinosaurs
@@princevermilion8799 also large bodied animals are better comparisons imo
@@joakos1122 Acanthosaura sp., Harpesaurus sp., Cerastes cerastes, Pseudocerastes sp., Atheris ceratophora, Atheris matildae, Anolis proboscis, Ceratophora aspera
Your stats are a bit misleading, 1.3 tonnes is the upper limit for the Short-Faced bears, where as 1.35 tonnes is the low end for Carnotaurus. If you going to use the upper limit for one you should be using the upper limit for the other(which in the case of Carnotaurus is over 2 tonnes).
I wonder what would some other dinosaurs look like standing upright ?
Barinasuchus vs carno? Who would win
That’s an interesting match up. Haven’t looked too deeply into Barinasuchus, however, I think it fairs a lot better than Arctodus simus.
Carnotaurus
@@leaguenpaleontology23 high diff?
Top speed for a carno 35mph
Top speed for short faced bear 50 to 60 mph
Do you have a source for that?
"If the carno charged at me he would cause me some trouble.."
But would you lose?
"Nah, i'd win"
Htf would a short faced bear have more experience then a damn dinosaur 😂
Hey @TheOverseerDebates Can You Make American Pitbull Terrier vs Velociraptor Please! I'm Waiting For A Reply :)
0:00 the strongerst dinosaur in hystory vs strongerst animals of today
Title: Short-Faced Bear
Thumbnail: Polar Bear
If they were close to equal in size I think it's a 50/50 shot as to who wins. Carnotaurus could land a bite on arctodus front limb and from there it might be game over depending on the bite or maybe land a bite on the neck. On the other hand bears regularly bite the ever loving shit out of each other and fight like Olympic Greco-Roman wrestlers. They're much more stable bipedally than given credit for here. If the arctodus came rushing on all fours and stood up quickly as bears often do, it could bite the carnos neck with it's arms wrapped around. Bears power is often severely underestimated in these types of videos and to this day we have no way of accurately measuring their strength, let alone an extinct bear. Just look at the Sloth Bear vs Bengal Tiger. Yes Bengals do kill them but Sloth Bears often return the favor or scare the Tigers off because it's not worth the risk but then they go drop a 2800lbs Guar. Like I said, if it's close in size 50/50 is probably the most likely outcome, or they just give each other a wide birth.
Wrong, there’s multiple problems with this. While yes, they can stand up on their hind legs, the stability isn’t going to be as good as something like Carnotaurus, especially since they don’t have a large muscular tail to keep them stable. This would leave them vulnerable to being knocked over, especially since when intraspecific conflicts, bears tend to get rag dolled when they’re both standing on their hind legs.
Something like Carnotaurus would have far better stability when it comes to bipedal stance, and it’s not even close. Now for the biting, even with that being said, bears aren’t adapted for landing quick and fatal bites like Felids, and to land such a well placed bite, Arctodus is going to have to keep Carnotaurus in a good place.
One could say sure, the bears strength is underestimated but so are dinosaurs and in general macropredatory reptiles like crocodiles, especially when compared to bears.
I should mention as well unlike canine teeth, ziphodont teeth isn’t dependent on going to softer areas such as the neck, they can go for any area, as along as they get a good bite in, it would cause serious bleeding for the animal.
@@denistyrantyou clearly dont know shit about bears.
The dinosaur ecosystem was far more dangerous than the Pleistocene. The animals are much tougher, more aggressive, and frequently armored and armed with defensive weapons. I doubt any mammalian predator would stand a chance even against like sized herbivores.
I think the bear would run and avoid a fight, but one with experience and their probably much more intelligent would use its arms and get control of its long neck. They do this with mooses they'll even control the antlers and pull its head down and tire it out.
Honestly, what I heard is that the short face bear can run up to 60 km/h which is 37 mph however they probably would’ve ran 35
Environment and diseases aside, more than likely short-face would be terrified and make all of its efforts into scaring away carno. Carno would be confused and probably wouldnt find the bear worth it, stat-wise Carno probably on average weighed more. So even equalization the mammal doesn't win but something wasnt taken into account that normal brown bears do, is grappling. I think the bear would try to shove and grapple the head of the carno as bad as an Idea that is, still interesting.
I don’t know why, but for some reason, I thought this video was about Carnotaurus vs. a Polar Bear (instead of Short-Faced Bear).
Well, at least it’s a bit more of a formidable hypothetical opponent (Polar Bear probably wouldn’t last 3 minutes).
Any smaller-medium size and larger carnivorous dinosaur would absolutely NERF any carnivorous mammal, alive or extinct. We’re talking about an entirely different league of deadliness. Anything on the scale of Utahraptor and up is only going to be matched by another dinosaur/archosaur (predatory).
You should pit a 2 tonne Carnotaurus against a 1.5 tonne Arctotherium.
The video literally mentions why they went with Arctodus simus and not Arctotherium angustidens
Arctotherium anguistidens is 1.1 tonnes
Were did you found this Sceen wen the trex is surrounded by mammals
Carno's big advantage would be gone after the initial charge, if the fight ever goes to the ground then the bear would have advantage.
In short it would be decided in a moment, despite being a drawn out encounter.
Quick thought: Gigantoraptor vs Terrorbird vs Giant Moa vs Casowary
Please make a video about t rex vs deinosuchus
On dry land T-rex, easily. In water, especially the deeper it gets, the gator should win.
I wonder what Carno's resting heart rate would be?
Reptiles generally tend to have lower metabolic rates than mammals, leaving them prone to exhaustion after quick bursts of energy.
Caimans have been observed to have resting heart rate in the single digits that rise to the 30s and 40s of bpm when sighting prey.
Conversely, polar bears have a resting heart rate in the 40s and 50s of bpm. This would likely increase during predation and combat, but I haven't found numbers on that.
This would make a big difference in a prolonged fight, with the reptilian Carno tiring out after it's initial attack/struggle.
Fights between similarly sized male Grizzly bears during the mating season can be prolonged encounters. I've seen footage of some lasting well over 10 minutes.
Now I'm unsure if this means the short faced bear would have more stamina than the Carno, given the larger size of the Shortface compared to modern bears.
But if the stark contrast between the metabolic rates of mammals and reptilians applied in this fight, I'd say that the Carno would have a smaller window of opportunity to win than the bear.
Now if the Carno bore a similar metabolic rate to living terrestrial birds like Ostriches or Cassowary, which have resting bpm around the 40s and 50s and a range similar to that of mammals, there wouldn't be as much of a discrepency.
Also for some reason, six flags new england says Carnos may have hunted in packs, although I can't find any other support for that claim. If that was true then the bear would lose as there would likely be more carnos.
It’s very likely Carnotaurus had higher metabolic rates than other reptiles. It was at least an mesotherm, with some studies even suggests that suggests that many dinosaurs were endothermic, having a metabolic rate higher than mammals and closer to that of birds.
Archosaurs (which is the greater clade including crocodiles and dinosaurs) are ancestrally endothermic, and have a superior respiratory system to mammals, this is most well seen in birds (which have even higher internal temperatures than mammals) but even crocodiles, which split off from the dinosaur clade very early, have the superior lungs, despite having a much more sedentary lifestyle and secondarily reevolving ectothermy. Other than the lungs themselves being more efficient, by using a four-chamber valve system that insures air is constantly entering the lungs instead of the mammalian lungs having to breath in and out, dinosaurian bodies also had a bunch of air sacs delivering oxygen all over the body too. This actually means that dinosaurs were probably better in endurance than most mammals. That being said bears do have an exceptionally high endurance for mammals, so its not as set in stone. I would say arctodus would be probably equal or at a small to medium disadvantage, but its likely both have enough endurance to last until one kills the other, which is basically the only metric that maters.
i think the carnosaurus would win 8-9 out of every 10 encounters.
we got to remember that the momentum of the carnotarus would also be transferred to the bear, meaning that it most likely would be flung backwards if it got hit, opening up opportunities for the carnotaurus to attack
Disney's dinosaur warped my perception about the true size of the carnotaurus.
The dino has the edge in size and intimidation however -- total lack of arms would be a distinct handicap in a carnivore vs. carnivore duel.
Arms can come in pretty "handy."
His little arms 😂
Maybe next time:
Meghaterium
-3m on 4
-6m standing on 2
-5 tons
-big claws
VS
Therizinosaurus
-5/6m tall
-5/6 tons
-big claws
arctodis would win in my opinion. smarter better armed and more stable. the canotaurus could easily be toppled over and wasn't much of a grappler, while arctodis was quite good at wrestling..it had lots of practice. The biggest advantage was it's intelligence.
What comic is the first one!???
The short faced bears actually 6 feet tall at the shoulder and 11 feet tall om to legs
For all of those who saw primal, know of that part were fang fight off bears from that scorpion tribe, it didn’t go well for those bears 😆
big up the carnataurus. so cool that "saurus" starts with a t instead, for no reason! this dinosaur is about that thug life.
Amazing video and I agree with the outcome but he did get a few things wrong about the carno. For starters the carno was not good at quick turns quite the opposite actually it’s tail was wide and thick but did not have a lot of maneuverability which is what most therapods rely on to turn. Second of all it was not an ambush hunter taking in the fact that it could not turn very quickly means it most likely hunted on open plains where it would pretty much race its prey and bite at it in quick succession until it dropped not one large bite to drop it in one go. And finally I pretty much just said it but it did not rely on its bite force but rather its bite speed to take down prey.
Have you seen Grizzlies fighting each other? Even if they stand up, they are not that easy to throw down, and if, they go down , they are up again in a second...
Do Suchomimus vs Glyptodon
The bears are used to fighting things their size or smaller. Carnotaurus had to live alongside things that were bigger
Who wins a Sabertooth Tiger or a Polar Bear?
That’s a good match up. Off the top of my head, due to the size and stamina advantage, I’d give it to the polar bear
11:19
Look at the matchups this planet used to have
Carno would run away if sufficiently harmed and it’s speed would allow it to escape
Now we know why cavemen lived in caves. It was suicidal to go out of the cave. And the dinosaurs were too big to enter a small cave entrance.
Do your homework. They we dead for 60,000,000 years! Now. The short face bear, or smidon, were there and other cats, dire wolves, lions, the list goes on!
@@markmccarty9793It's a joke, pretty sure
@thetruthfornow6045 you just enforced the fact that you're an idiot! Dinosaurs lived mostly in the Jurassic era, but they hung in there well into the Centosoric era ! Keep making a damn fool outta yourself, you've made a great example of your party!! Idiots are us!!