Since draw weight is measured at 28" and it increases usually around 3 pounds per inch of draw, it means that for 32" draw, the 30 pound limbs are actually 42 pounds and the 45 pound limbs are 57 pounds. But that is estimate, the real poundage would have to be measured to be accurate. That means that the 45 pound (57 at 32") had grains per pound at roughly 10 gpp where the 30 pound (42 at 32") almost 13.6 gpp. That is the reason to speed difference, the higher pound limbs are not 20 fps faster, it just uses lighter gpp arrow (arrows are the same, but gpp isn't. 570gn/57=10 and 570gn/42=13.6).
Thanks for watching and sharing your comment. I agree with all that. One of these days I need to get a draw scale. When I say 'faster' I'm speaking in terms of raw chronograph velocity using the same arrow, not relative velocity at equal GPP between the 30# and 45# limbs. Sorry for any confusion there. 🏹
Great info for me since i just bought this bow with the 45pound limbs but havent tried it yet other than at the store but that was with other limbs and its my first bow ever so i am super exited. Cheers from Sweden 🇸🇪
Thank you for posting and including the info not only on the bow, but the arrows as well. I have a Samick Discovery with 40# and 45# foam core limbs and I use both carbon and wood arrows. I use an elevated rest and it would be nice if Samick would offer a side plate so I can shoot off the shelf. Did loose a spring on the limb detent and Samick has yet to respond.
We Americans forget the OTTOMAN bows from Turkey are historically very fast ! There is a Monument that's several hundred years old dedicated to Archery distance competition with these bows .
@@shanepitzer4126 sorry, I mean pinch. If the string angle is too severe sometimes shooters complain of the string “biting” either the outside of the top or bottom finger. Us long draw guys have to deal with this on some short AMO bows. Just curious if this one has given you any problems?
limbs are measured at 28" draw length. If estimated increase of 3 pounds per inch, it would make them 42 lbs at 32". Also 1" increase in draw length, gives on average a 4 to 5 fps increase in speed. So not only it is actually 12 lbs heavier than it says in the limb, it also gives additional 16 to 20 fps more speed than 42 lbs limbs would give at 28" draw.
I did a quick calculation to see if a 50% increase in draw weight equals 50% increase in energy. The 30lb gave 165, so multiply by Square root of 1.5 and you get 202. Yet the actual results showed about 189. So more draw weight does not translate totally into energy.
That would require the bow efficiency to be 100%, but it can never be 100%, because the stored energy also has to move the bow limbs and the string along with the arrow, so 100% of the stored energy can never fully go to the arrow.
nice little experiment. as Vincent points out, 150% more nominal draw weight, but only 131% increase in kinetic energy. 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity : 47.2 Joules for 30# vs 61.9 Joules for 45#). a little loss in efficiency, might be due minor differences in archer draw at 30# and 45#, arrow spine, differences in draw force curves (how the actual poundage varies at different draw lengths) between limbs, atmospheric conditions.
you can't say... at his draw length, the poundage is not the marked one. and by using the same arrows, it change the grain per pounds (wich affect the efficiency).
A question for you sir, if i put on a sight on this riser to shoot like olimpic style will I be able to see the pin at shorter distances (15-20 meters) or it will be hiding behind the upper part of the handle? Best regards, A.S.
the riser has sight holes, so the sight will work properly. i would recommend something like a recurve sight or a simple pin sight rather than one with a larger scope housing. This is to ensure proper arrow clearance since the sight window is rather short on a 17" riser.
Eric, In my opinion, 30# limbs is a great place to start, and you will never outgrow those limbs for practice or casual shooting. 30# is light enough to really focus on form, and heavy enough to get a pretty clean release. I shoot the 30# limbs a lot. Thanks for watching! Shane
Eric, with the 30# limbs you will want an arrow with about a 600 spine, and 125-150gr point. I would suggest not cutting the arrows just leave them at 30", 32" or whatever they come as. The longer shaft will be easier to tune with point weight adjustments as you go along, because it will be more flexible than a shorter shaft of the same spine.
I suppose it would be similar. Besides draw weight, there is also the length of the power stroke with the variable of draw length. It would be interesting to compare equal actual draw weight at different draw lengths, with same arrow weight.
wonder what the difference is between say a 37 or a 42# I have 35lb limbs now. State requires 40 to hunt. with carbon arrows I think they could reduce the weight to 35#. Aluminum is so much heavier.
@@ddeboy002 Here in Montana there is no minimum draw weight requirement as far as I know. I've been shooting archery now for about 2.5 years. Haven't hunted with it yet. With my 32" draw length, I believe a 35# bow would be plenty of power for shots inside 20 yards.
Your 30’s are close to 40, and your 45’s are close to 55. I draw 31 and had a 45 Sage that was 56. You ought to try super hooks, they really eliminate stacking.
Could be way higher than that too, depends on the limb. I know someone with a 32" draw that had 35# limbs weigh in over 50# at his draw length. First thing I try and do with a new bow is weigh it at your draw length, otherwise you are just guessing when it comes to picking the right spine arrows.
Ty, I haven't measured them on a scale. going with ther standard 2.5" per inch would put them at 40# and 55# respectively, at my 32" draw length. Shane
I shot the 576 grain arrow in he 30# for a good while, 165 fps is enough to get it out there to 20-30 yards with good accuracy. Eventually I looked around for a weaker 32" shaft so I could build a lighter arrow. Ended up with a 32" 700 spine with 140gr glue-in point. About 340 grains. They do zip out of the 30# bow, and fly well too.
hi, interesting video, but... you can compare two different poundage of limbs with the same arrows.... what you need to do to have a fair comparison is to shoot arrow with the same weight per pound. the AMO advice 8grain per pound. More over, your draw length gives you at least 15pounds about the marked poundage on the limbs. Comparing arrow speeds is always coplicated... there are many things that affect the final result.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. I agree that there are a lot of ways to compare things. Naturally the lighter limbs will not make the same speed with the same arrow. I was curious just how much the difference would be.
@@shanepitzer4126 thats intereting yes. In reallity, it's very difficult to obtain a fair comparaison... It would involve to test the output ratio of each set with different arrow weigth to draw the curve (wich looks like a gauss curve). And only after we could see some relevant data... But it's really difficult to do... One Day maybe i will have the ressources to do that...
@@benji280792 Yes it can become very sophisticated. My objective was fairly simple. I wanted to know the velocity differences between 30# and 45#, using the same arrow, same bow, different weight limbs, and myself pulling the string back and letting it go.
I tend to do my best shooting with this bow. The weight is significantly more than my wood longbows. It feels more stable, and forgiving of minor mistakes.
That is because draw weight has nothing to do with speed. Draw weight is like torque in a car, not horse power, it means that if you increase torque, you will not get faster, but you can pull a heavier weight as fast. But now to science. When you compare different draw weights, you need to compare stored energy to kinetic energy, not stored energy to speed, because that's what's happening, the stored energy is turned to kinetic energy. If you could increase the speed by 50%, you would increase the energy of that arrow by 100%, but it only has 50% more energy stored, so 100% more kinetic energy is not possible. If the bow would be 100% efficient, then increasing the stored energy by 50% would increase the kinetic energy also by 50% (this cannot happen cus bow cannot be 100% efficient) and 50% increase in kinetic energy is only 25% increase in speed. But in real world, the bows efficiency is maybe around 80% (I don't know for sure, that's just my estimate, it depends on the bow). So that would mean only 20% increase in speed, if my math is correct, or 40% increase in kinetic energy. Now already can be seen that my estimate of 80% efficiency was wrong, cus the real difference in speed is 15% not 20%, so the efficiency is lower than 80% (I also forgot to take into consideration the efficiency of that original 30 pounds, now I accidentally calculated it to be 100%, even tough it is not, so maybe that's why my calculations are 5% in speed wrong) Now let's calculate the real gain in kinetic energy, I do it in Joules, cus I don't know how to do it in imperial measurements. The 30 lbs limbs 165 fps=50.92 m/s and the arrow 572 grains = 37 grams that comes to 46.8 J of kinetic energy. 45 lbs: 189 fps=57.6 m/s so that makes 61.4J. That comes to about 31% increase in kinetic energy. But there is still one more but. The heavier the arrow is, the more kinetic energy it has, and the 30 lbs limbs (estimated to be at 32" around 42 lbs, since it increases usually around 3 pounds per inch of draw, and the 30 lbs is at 28" draw) so 572 grain / 42 lbs = at around 13.6 grains per pound (gpp) and the 45 lbs limbs (estimated at 57 lbs at 32") is 572/57 about 10 gpp. This means that because of arrow weight per pound is not the same, the gain in kinetic energy cannot be accurately calculated. It would require the heavier limbs to be measured with around 772 grain arrow instead of 572 grains, so that we could really see, how much does 50% increase in draw weight gain in kinetic energy. But that's the best I can do, I'm only a truck driver, not an engineer, so my math is not 100% correct, but it's close I guess. Hopefully it helps to understand better why the increase in speed can never be the same in percentage than the increase in draw weight.
And now i noticed that the arrow weight is 576 not the 572 that I used in my calculations. My bad, but I already told, they are not 100% accurate anyways.
over 500 grain arrows... thats terrible heavy for a 30 pound bow and even heavy for the 45 pound limbs. "normal" weight would be 300 grains for 30 pounds and 450 grains for the 45 pounder, 10 grains weight per pound of bow strength. in target sport that goes even down to around 7 grains per pound on average and 6grain at max. speed is acuracy at range. its a testimony for the quality of the limbs that they even reached the speeds they did with such heavy arrows
I understand all of that, and thanks for your detailed input. At my 32" draw length, I'm actually closer to 40# at my full draw. My typical arrow for this bow with the 30# limbs is 520 grains, working out to around 13 gpp, and 170 fps. For the sake of direct comparison, I used the arrow I typically use with the 50# limbs. I suppose it would be fair to use both the 520gr and the 576gr arrows in the comparison, but I chose to keep it short and sweet. Shane
@@dusanpavlovic2201 If you are right handed, it would indicate your arrow spine is too stiff. You could try using a heavier point. Try adding about 50 grains at a time or so and see if that helps. I'm shooting 400 spine with 32" shaft and 275 grains up front in my 35-45 lb bows. I really need some arrows more flexible, maybe 500 or 600, but they are not always easy to find at 32".
Since draw weight is measured at 28" and it increases usually around 3 pounds per inch of draw, it means that for 32" draw, the 30 pound limbs are actually 42 pounds and the 45 pound limbs are 57 pounds. But that is estimate, the real poundage would have to be measured to be accurate.
That means that the 45 pound (57 at 32") had grains per pound at roughly 10 gpp where the 30 pound (42 at 32") almost 13.6 gpp. That is the reason to speed difference, the higher pound limbs are not 20 fps faster, it just uses lighter gpp arrow (arrows are the same, but gpp isn't. 570gn/57=10 and 570gn/42=13.6).
Thanks for watching and sharing your comment. I agree with all that. One of these days I need to get a draw scale. When I say 'faster' I'm speaking in terms of raw chronograph velocity using the same arrow, not relative velocity at equal GPP between the 30# and 45# limbs. Sorry for any confusion there. 🏹
A very nice place. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Thanks for watching and sharing your comments.
Great info for me since i just bought this bow with the 45pound limbs but havent tried it yet other than at the store but that was with other limbs and its my first bow ever so i am super exited.
Cheers from Sweden 🇸🇪
I hope you enjoy your bow as much as I am enjoying mine. I like my wood bows, but I do my best shooting with the Discovery.
Gorgeous landscapes in your vids! Nice to see another lefty shooter! Sub!
Thanks, glad you are enjoying the vids.
Thank you for posting and including the info not only on the bow, but the arrows as well. I have a Samick Discovery with 40# and 45# foam core limbs and I use both carbon and wood arrows. I use an elevated rest and it would be nice if Samick would offer a side plate so I can shoot off the shelf. Did loose a spring on the limb detent and Samick has yet to respond.
Yeah, I prefer the simplicity of shooting off the shelf too. Thanks for watching and sharing your comments.
I love my Samick discovery. I am jealous of the 32" DL. Those 45 # limbs really pop.
I got the Samick Sage with 30# and 50# limbs
Good video, informative 👍 thank you Shane
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it!
I’m enjoying the chrono tests
Good deal, glad the info is in some way interesting, or at least entertaining.
We Americans forget the OTTOMAN bows from Turkey are historically very fast ! There is a Monument that's several hundred years old dedicated to Archery distance competition with these bows .
Archery is amazing in the long time it has been around, and evolved differently in different cultures.
Hello. May I know what is fps unit, convert to mps? I can't see it on the Internet
1 meter equals 3.28 feet. Thanks for watching!
@@shanepitzer4126 thanks. I didn't know that is feet per second
@@angquoctri9613 You bet!
Great video brother well done keep um coming 👍🏻
Yeah I need to get the cameras up and running. Should be getting warmer in the near future.
Good job 👍
So with your long draw how is finger punch with this bow??
I'm not familiar with the term 'finger punch'. I don't feel anything odd though.
@@shanepitzer4126 sorry, I mean pinch. If the string angle is too severe sometimes shooters complain of the string “biting” either the outside of the top or bottom finger.
Us long draw guys have to deal with this on some short AMO bows. Just curious if this one has given you any problems?
@@Leehealy-wheninthewoods OK, I got ya now. You know, I use a three-under draw, and I've never felt any finger pinch even on my short (60") bows.
@@shanepitzer4126 thank you !
Quite interesting thank you
Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it.
Pretty impressive numbers for 30# limbs
Yes those are fast. My draw is 32", so that makes quite a difference.
limbs are measured at 28" draw length. If estimated increase of 3 pounds per inch, it would make them 42 lbs at 32". Also 1" increase in draw length, gives on average a 4 to 5 fps increase in speed. So not only it is actually 12 lbs heavier than it says in the limb, it also gives additional 16 to 20 fps more speed than 42 lbs limbs would give at 28" draw.
thank for the info!
You bet!
I did a quick calculation to see if a 50% increase in draw weight equals 50% increase in energy. The 30lb gave 165, so multiply by Square root of 1.5 and you get 202. Yet the actual results showed about 189. So more draw weight does not translate totally into energy.
That's interesting. Thanks for watching and your informative comment.
That would require the bow efficiency to be 100%, but it can never be 100%, because the stored energy also has to move the bow limbs and the string along with the arrow, so 100% of the stored energy can never fully go to the arrow.
nice little experiment.
as Vincent points out, 150% more nominal draw weight, but only 131% increase in kinetic energy. 1/2 * mass * velocity * velocity : 47.2 Joules for 30# vs 61.9 Joules for 45#).
a little loss in efficiency, might be due minor differences in archer draw at 30# and 45#, arrow spine, differences in draw force curves (how the actual poundage varies at different draw lengths) between limbs, atmospheric conditions.
you can't say... at his draw length, the poundage is not the marked one. and by using the same arrows, it change the grain per pounds (wich affect the efficiency).
@@benji280792 exactly!
The scenery is stunning! What state are you in? Test is cool too. Thanks.
The scenery is not hard to look at. We are in Montana.
A question for you sir, if i put on a sight on this riser to shoot like olimpic style will I be able to see the pin at shorter distances (15-20 meters) or it will be hiding behind the upper part of the handle? Best regards, A.S.
I'm afraid I cannot answer that. I have never used that type of equipment.
@@shanepitzer4126 OK
the riser has sight holes, so the sight will work properly.
i would recommend something like a recurve sight or a simple pin sight rather than one with a larger scope housing. This is to ensure proper arrow clearance since the sight window is rather short on a 17" riser.
Hi Shane, for beginner adult male with a smaller frame and average strength -- what draw weight limbs do you recommend?
Eric, In my opinion, 30# limbs is a great place to start, and you will never outgrow those limbs for practice or casual shooting. 30# is light enough to really focus on form, and heavy enough to get a pretty clean release. I shoot the 30# limbs a lot. Thanks for watching! Shane
Eric, with the 30# limbs you will want an arrow with about a 600 spine, and 125-150gr point. I would suggest not cutting the arrows just leave them at 30", 32" or whatever they come as. The longer shaft will be easier to tune with point weight adjustments as you go along, because it will be more flexible than a shorter shaft of the same spine.
Makes me wonder if 60# limbs would give a similar effect.
I suppose it would be similar. Besides draw weight, there is also the length of the power stroke with the variable of draw length. It would be interesting to compare equal actual draw weight at different draw lengths, with same arrow weight.
wonder what the difference is between say a 37 or a 42# I have 35lb limbs now. State requires 40 to hunt. with carbon arrows I think they could reduce the weight to 35#. Aluminum is so much heavier.
I don't know. One of these days I should test the 35# vs 40# limbs on the same riser, with the same arrow.
@@shanepitzer4126 What I love about it... for 79.00 I can get a new set of limbs instead of 2000.00
@@shanepitzer4126 With carbon arrows I'm surprised you can't hunt with 35#. It's more than enough force.
@@ddeboy002 Samick is a fantastic value in price/quality. To be honest, I like my Samick Discovery more than my Hoyt Satori.
@@ddeboy002 Here in Montana there is no minimum draw weight requirement as far as I know. I've been shooting archery now for about 2.5 years. Haven't hunted with it yet. With my 32" draw length, I believe a 35# bow would be plenty of power for shots inside 20 yards.
Hi Shane. What´s your brace hight on the bow?? All for kill!! Thanks.
Hans, right at 8 inches.
Your 30’s are close to 40, and your 45’s are close to 55. I draw 31 and had a 45 Sage that was 56. You ought to try super hooks, they really eliminate stacking.
I've heard of the super hooks, watched a vid or two. I might have to check that out a bit more.
Could be way higher than that too, depends on the limb. I know someone with a 32" draw that had 35# limbs weigh in over 50# at his draw length. First thing I try and do with a new bow is weigh it at your draw length, otherwise you are just guessing when it comes to picking the right spine arrows.
What’s the weight at your draw length?
Ty, I haven't measured them on a scale. going with ther standard 2.5" per inch would put them at 40# and 55# respectively, at my 32" draw length. Shane
I dig that arm guard. Mind if I ask where you got it? (Also, great video thanks for the helpful info!)
Marshall, it's an American Bison armguard from 3Rivers Archery.
www.3riversarchery.com/american-bison-leather-armguard.html
Only thing is you would be shooting a lower grain arrow with 30 lb limbs and reach the same speed as the heaver grain of the 45 lb limbs
I shot the 576 grain arrow in he 30# for a good while, 165 fps is enough to get it out there to 20-30 yards with good accuracy. Eventually I looked around for a weaker 32" shaft so I could build a lighter arrow. Ended up with a 32" 700 spine with 140gr glue-in point. About 340 grains. They do zip out of the 30# bow, and fly well too.
So your draw weight is 54ish at your draw length?
I haven't measured on a scale, but I figure it is somewhere in that ballpark with the 45# limbs.
interesting
hi, interesting video, but... you can compare two different poundage of limbs with the same arrows.... what you need to do to have a fair comparison is to shoot arrow with the same weight per pound. the AMO advice 8grain per pound. More over, your draw length gives you at least 15pounds about the marked poundage on the limbs.
Comparing arrow speeds is always coplicated... there are many things that affect the final result.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. I agree that there are a lot of ways to compare things. Naturally the lighter limbs will not make the same speed with the same arrow. I was curious just how much the difference would be.
@@shanepitzer4126 thats intereting yes.
In reallity, it's very difficult to obtain a fair comparaison...
It would involve to test the output ratio of each set with different arrow weigth to draw the curve (wich looks like a gauss curve). And only after we could see some relevant data... But it's really difficult to do...
One Day maybe i will have the ressources to do that...
@@benji280792 Yes it can become very sophisticated. My objective was fairly simple. I wanted to know the velocity differences between 30# and 45#, using the same arrow, same bow, different weight limbs, and myself pulling the string back and letting it go.
this bow seems accurate or it's maybe you . good test by the way thank you for sharing it.
I tend to do my best shooting with this bow. The weight is significantly more than my wood longbows. It feels more stable, and forgiving of minor mistakes.
Interesting, the draw weight goes up 50% for only a 15% speed gain
That is because draw weight has nothing to do with speed. Draw weight is like torque in a car, not horse power, it means that if you increase torque, you will not get faster, but you can pull a heavier weight as fast.
But now to science. When you compare different draw weights, you need to compare stored energy to kinetic energy, not stored energy to speed, because that's what's happening, the stored energy is turned to kinetic energy. If you could increase the speed by 50%, you would increase the energy of that arrow by 100%, but it only has 50% more energy stored, so 100% more kinetic energy is not possible. If the bow would be 100% efficient, then increasing the stored energy by 50% would increase the kinetic energy also by 50% (this cannot happen cus bow cannot be 100% efficient) and 50% increase in kinetic energy is only 25% increase in speed. But in real world, the bows efficiency is maybe around 80% (I don't know for sure, that's just my estimate, it depends on the bow). So that would mean only 20% increase in speed, if my math is correct, or 40% increase in kinetic energy. Now already can be seen that my estimate of 80% efficiency was wrong, cus the real difference in speed is 15% not 20%, so the efficiency is lower than 80% (I also forgot to take into consideration the efficiency of that original 30 pounds, now I accidentally calculated it to be 100%, even tough it is not, so maybe that's why my calculations are 5% in speed wrong)
Now let's calculate the real gain in kinetic energy, I do it in Joules, cus I don't know how to do it in imperial measurements. The 30 lbs limbs 165 fps=50.92 m/s and the arrow 572 grains = 37 grams that comes to 46.8 J of kinetic energy. 45 lbs: 189 fps=57.6 m/s so that makes 61.4J. That comes to about 31% increase in kinetic energy.
But there is still one more but. The heavier the arrow is, the more kinetic energy it has, and the 30 lbs limbs (estimated to be at 32" around 42 lbs, since it increases usually around 3 pounds per inch of draw, and the 30 lbs is at 28" draw) so 572 grain / 42 lbs = at around 13.6 grains per pound (gpp) and the 45 lbs limbs (estimated at 57 lbs at 32") is 572/57 about 10 gpp. This means that because of arrow weight per pound is not the same, the gain in kinetic energy cannot be accurately calculated. It would require the heavier limbs to be measured with around 772 grain arrow instead of 572 grains, so that we could really see, how much does 50% increase in draw weight gain in kinetic energy.
But that's the best I can do, I'm only a truck driver, not an engineer, so my math is not 100% correct, but it's close I guess. Hopefully it helps to understand better why the increase in speed can never be the same in percentage than the increase in draw weight.
And now i noticed that the arrow weight is 576 not the 572 that I used in my calculations. My bad, but I already told, they are not 100% accurate anyways.
over 500 grain arrows... thats terrible heavy for a 30 pound bow and even heavy for the 45 pound limbs.
"normal" weight would be 300 grains for 30 pounds and 450 grains for the 45 pounder, 10 grains weight per pound of bow strength.
in target sport that goes even down to around 7 grains per pound on average and 6grain at max.
speed is acuracy at range.
its a testimony for the quality of the limbs that they even reached the speeds they did with such heavy arrows
I understand all of that, and thanks for your detailed input. At my 32" draw length, I'm actually closer to 40# at my full draw. My typical arrow for this bow with the 30# limbs is 520 grains, working out to around 13 gpp, and 170 fps. For the sake of direct comparison, I used the arrow I typically use with the 50# limbs. I suppose it would be fair to use both the 520gr and the 576gr arrows in the comparison, but I chose to keep it short and sweet. Shane
DAMN,, SOUNDS LIKE A .22LR
Thanks for watching!
At your DL it's no longer 45# 😂
Probably closer to 55#.
so not by much compared to poundage
Not too much. 24 fps, for 15# increase in draw weight.
@@shanepitzer4126 what do i do if my arrows are hitting left from where im aiming and i dont have adjustable resy
@@dusanpavlovic2201 If you are right handed, it would indicate your arrow spine is too stiff. You could try using a heavier point. Try adding about 50 grains at a time or so and see if that helps. I'm shooting 400 spine with 32" shaft and 275 grains up front in my 35-45 lb bows. I really need some arrows more flexible, maybe 500 or 600, but they are not always easy to find at 32".