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What's My Line? - Jerry Herman; Henry Fonda; Tony Randall [panel] (Sep 13, 1964)
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2014
- MYSTERY GUESTS: Jerry Herman; Henry Fonda
PANEL: Dorothy Kilgallen, Tony Randall, Arlene Francis, Bennett Cerf
![What's My Line? - Buddy Hackett; Carol Channing [panel] (Nov 29, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qQYQOKDnhoU/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Buddy Hackett; Carol Channing [panel] (Nov 29, 1964)](/img/tr.png)
![What's My Line? - Jack E. Leonard; Steve Allen [panel] (Dec 20, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k1m96yKbSh0/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Henry Fonda; Gig Young [panel] (Jan 15, 1961)](/img/1.gif)
Dorothy's question to the sommelier on whether she was "a little old winemaker" referred to a series of then-current commercials for Italian Swiss Colony wines, which concluded with a little white-haired, white-mustachioed man in an Alpine hat and lederhosen says that the wines are from "that little old winemaker, me." Dean Martin later did a take-off song called "Little Ole Wine Drinker, Me."
I LOVE LOVE ARLENE FRANCIS !!!!!! I wish there would be somebody.....just anybody in this world today....well....just a little bit like her....but alas! 😘💗💗💗💗
Very interesting seeing Jerry Herman. Didn't know what he looked like. 😊
See "12 Angry Men" in order to learn why Henry Fonda was so greatly admired as an actor's actor among film stars. You'll have the added benefit of seeing a great film at the same time.
And you'll have the bonus of seeing him make his own the role originated by Robert Cummings in its screen premiere, on "Studio One."
eoselan7 And his last On golden pond
I
@eoselan7 - And every one of the other great American actors who performed with him in that film. It was a superb cast and they were riveting performances.
What a great movie that was
Jerry Herman seemed like such a gentleman and a Mensch.
Whether by design or not, "Beekman Place," a comedy by Samuel Taylor, ran only 29 performances on Broadway, after its out-of-town tryouts. It would open on Wednesday, 7 October 1964 at the Morosco Theatre - and close on Saturday, 31 October 1964. Arlene Francis played Pamela Piper in a 7-person cast; the other six cast members were Carol Booth, Mary Grace Canfield, George Coulouris, Leora Dana, Fernand Gravet, and Laurence Luckinbill. (Joan Westmore understudied Arlene Francis and Leora Dana.)
The production was staged by the playwright, Samuel Taylor, with sets designed by Oliver Smith, costumes designed by Donald Brooks, and lighting designed by Jack Brown.
How is it possible that someone who is nearly 57 looks as young and as good as Arlene does??? Plus, she has such a pleasant and delightful personality! :) ...wish to be more like her!
She sure was a good looking woman.
I just watched a show from 1975, and she was on the panel. And, sorry, but she was beginning to show her age. That said, she was still beautiful.
@@scottpardee6303Arlene was born in 1907. In the shows from 1975 she would’ve been in her late 60s. Even if you could say that was “showing her age“, IMO she looked great. Great genes and some good lighting
No quarrel here.
There's a very interesting "point of clarification" by Tony Randall at the 11:50 mark regarding the silly custom on WML of John not considering products that came from vegetable matter to have ever been alive!
Yes!
***** It makes no sense, it really doesn't. Again, we're not talking about fine technical points of biological taxonomy here. I recall one show (maybe this one?) where John answers a question about whether a product that came from plants had ever been alive by saying something to the effect of, "In the sense of growing, but not really alive, no." Seriously???
What's My Line?
In explaining what is or isn't alive to preschool children, we often use the fact that something grows as evidence that it is alive. The children are more likely to be confused by the idea of adults growing (we explain that even though they are no longer growing taller, their hair and nails still grow), but they have no confusion at all about the fact that if plants grow they must be alive.
oldfart4751 Yes, John Daly frequently cited WML's specific "terms of reference" as justification of some of his moderating decisions about answers, but I think that establishing this particular term of reference was a mistake from the beginning.
What's My Line?
It gave them a clue that it's an animal in this case
The Butcher Baker Candlestick Maker episode to which Bennett refers happened in 1960, posted by this channel under the name of panelist Dick Van Dyke.
soulierinvestments - I rather liked what that episode showed about the human memory or our memory under the limitations of performing on a half hour live TV show. It was after Princess Margaret's May wedding and, even with all their experience of how shrewd the producers could be about contestant choices, they totally forgot about the butcher and baker during the MG segment. Now there was also a bit of a misleading comment by Daly. Nonetheless, they blew it and failed to make the connection, all the while knowing how they organized shows.
Someone should make a list of all the things Dorothy would look odd carry down Fifth Avenue.
And why is it she seems so often, by sheer coincidence, to ask this question when the contestant deals with alcoholic products?
soulierinvestments
It's often humerous when she does.
And a list of what Arlene has on her person 😀
A wedding cake with Thomas Dewey on top?
There is no list cause dorothy makes every thing look good
Can’t believe they didn’t recognize Jerry Herman-I suppose he was just on the cusp of celebrity with “Hello Dolly” and before “Mame” 😳
I was surprised that the inveterate punster Bennett Cerf didn't come up with, "Is it true Mrs. Hupperts that you have nothing in your cupboards?"
That interesting of Daly revealing Carol Channing on the panel for a missing episode(11-20-1964)
How could a Broadway stalwart like Arlene not know who Jerry Herman is?
She claims that she knew him.
She admitted that she should have recognised him as he had played piano for her. Obviously she wasn't thinking too hard about it. John was worried she would cotton on too.
WOW Dorothy’s hair.
This style is perhaps the best I've ever seen on her. She looks like one of the Lennon sisters.
Tony Randall could be a fuss budget
*_JERRY HERMAN, SONGWRITER ("HELLO DOLLY")_*
*_WINE STEWARD IN RESTAURANT_*
*_STOCKBROKER_*
"Beekman Place," the Broadway play mentioned that starred Arlene, was a big flop, closing after 29 performances.
Loved Henry in 12 Angry Men!
At some sort of tribute to Jerry Herman, Beatrice Arthur made what I think is the funniest observation about him as a composer. She co-starred with Angela Lansbury in the first Broadway run of Herman's "Mame," (1966) which at one point she referred to as "Vera." "Oh yes," she said about her character in that play,"Jerry said that he had to call the play "Mame" instead of "Vera" because nothing rhymes with "Vera." [three beats of a pause followed by a wicked star to Herman] "Sondheim could have rhymed 'Vera.' "
I guess he did use a few rhyming words (I've put the ones that I think "count" in *bold*, below -- "shame" and "same"):
*"Mame" song lyrics*
You coax the blues right out of the horn, Mame,
You charm the husk right off of the corn, Mame,
You've got that banjoes strummin'
And plunkin' out a tune to beat the band,
The whole plantation's hummin'
Since you brought Dixie back to Dixie land.
You make the cotton easy to pick, Mame,
You give my old mint julep a kick, Mame,
Who ever thought a Yankee would put
A little Dixie mouse to *shame*.
You've made us feel alive again,
You've given us the drive again,
To make the South revive again, Mame.
Beauregard Burnside:
You've brought the cake-walk back into style, Mame
You make the weepin' willow tree smile, Mame,
Your skin is Dixie satin,
There's rebel in your manner and your speech,
You may be from Manhattan,
But Georgia never had a sweeter peach.
All:
You make our black-eyed peas and our grits, Mame,
Seem like the bill of fare at the Ritz, Mame,
You came, you saw, you conquered
And absolutely nothing is the *same*.
You're special fascination'll prove to be inspirational,
We think you're just sensational, Mame.
Since you brought Dixie back to Dixie land.
Since you brought Dixie back to Dixie land.
You coax the blues right out of the horn, Mame,
You charm the husk right off of the corn, Mame,
You've got that banjoes strummin'
And plunkin' out a tune to beat the band,
The whole plantation's hummin'
Since you brought Dixie back to Dixie land.
You make the cotton easy to pick, Mame,
You give my old mint julep a kick, Mame,
Who ever thought a Yankee would put
A little Dixie mouse to *shame*.
You've made us feel alive again,
You've given us the drive again,
To make the South revive again, Mame.
Mame! Mame! Mame! Mame!
(from: www.allmusicals.com/lyrics/mame/mame.htm)
SaveThe TPC Wow, good work! Now I better go and find the melody... ;)
SuperWinterborn
Mame - Angelea Lansbury (with Original Soundtrack)
I think Arlene would have made a wonderful "Dolly Levi". Carol Channing showed us that singing ability is not required. I wonder if Arlene ever did "Dolly" somewhere?
Dorothy looks like such a brittle person
YES... as if she were to break at any second. A delicate flower... which I have always found unattractive since it seems put on.. feigned or fake
I was expecting Bennett to tell his joke that ends with, “absinthe makes the heart grow, Fonda.” He told that joke on at least two occasions when Jane Fonda was on lol.
Henry Fonda did so many memorable movie.-- and such great films as "Fail Safe," "Best Man," and "Advise and Consent" were in his second string of fine movies -- that it is easy to forget he did a number of Broadway productions in his career. "Mister Roberts" [I almost wrote South Pacific, but M R was set in the South Pacific during World War II] and Best Man come to mind along with "Critic's Choice" (which was sorta-so-so) In reference to his comment around 19:50 that he'd come back to Broadway is someone wrote him a good play -- fortunately in the next year someone did write him a good play that was called "Generations." Later he got that play about Clarence Darrow. As I recall he was in the first production of "First Monday in October" in which he portrayed a Supreme Court justice. So on Broadway he was in two branches of government.
And Maude Findlay wanted him to be president. :)
I'd forgotten about that. He hosted one of the major anniversaries of "All in the Family." He starred in a three season sitcom called "The Smith Family" where he was a police detective and his oldest son was -- brace yourself -- Ronny Howard after Andy Griffith and before Happy Days.
soulierinvestments
Interesting! I have no memory of this show at all and probably was unaware of it at the time, because I *do* remember that when I first saw Ron Howard in "Happy Days," I was excited to see what he looked like as a teenager (though I guess he was actually 20 when the show started) instead of a little boy. I guess that would not have been such an unknown if I'd seen him in anything in between Opie and Richie.
SMITH FAMILY opening credits season one ABC
Henry Fonda - The Smith Family (1971)
ABC promo The Smith Family 1971
soulierinvestments
The Smith Family was probably best remembered for its theme song - Primrose Lane
I like Henry Fonda best as Juror Number 8 in "Twelve Angry Men"
Prettiest stock broker I've ever seen!
I enjoy that the women can be called pretty by the men and the ladies can comment on a handsome man. It wasn't the making of a lawsuit.
This is one of a number of times that the final contestant was a female stockbroker. In no such instance did the panel ever guess her occupation. Finance is still largely a man's world in 2019 but in the 1960's, women in the stock market were rare indeed. As of this time, there had never been a woman who owned a seat on the New York Stock Exchange. That did not change until 1967, shortly after WML went off the air, and she encountered significant resistance, as might have been expected at the time.
Jerry Herman is alive and well, living with HIV for nearly 30 years. He is 83 years old.
He died in December 2019.
Jerry just died a few months ago RIP
Arlene face looks so pretty!!
The mysterious "Wahoo" was Wahoo McDaniel, a wildman defensive player for the NY Jets during the time that they were struggling to establish themselves out of the wreckage of the NY Titans. They were looking for someone to sell to the public (this was a couple of years before Joe Namath came to the Jets) and picked this ephemerally popular guy.
Since the home games were blacked out on TV at that time, I can remember listening to Merle Harmon broadcasting the Jets games from brand new Shea Stadium and the crowd going wild for Wahoo. In contact sports, New York metro area fans love hard-hitting defensive players. Wahoo fit the bill at middle linebacker and the timing was perfect. The Jets brought him over from the Denver Broncos before the start of the 1964 season, coinciding with the NFL New York Giants foolishly trading their tough as nails middle linebacker, Sam Huff to Washington. The 1964 season turned out to be a disaster for the Giants, a losing record after three straight Eastern Division titles. Fans started to look at in the direction of the Jets playing in a modern stadium and with a new owner who was a master promoter and also willing to spend some money to build a winning team.
The evening before this episode, the New York Jets played their first game of the season. It was also the first football game played at Shea. Wahoo had a field day, unofficially credited with 23 tackles of his former Denver teammates as the Jets romped to a 30-6 win. That is an unusually high number of tackles for one game.
Soon the Shea Stadium PA announcer began to ad lib. He turned one of the more perfunctory elements of the game into a group experience. Instead of announcing the name of the tackler, he left a long pause. The Jets fans caught on quickly. They would fill the void by shouting "WAHOO". (A couple of home games later, the PA announcer refined it by saying "Jets tackle made by guess who ..." and the crowd would shout his name.
Of course the Jets publicity department set the stage for him early on: he had his nickname on the back of his jersey instead of his last name. And Jets fans quickly learned that their new middle linebacker was also a pro wrestler who often wore a full headdress, befitting his heritage as a Choctaw-Chickasaw Native American.
He only played two years for the Jets. In his second year, he was joined by rookie QB Joe Namath. With a high-priced potential new matinee idol on the roster, the Jets decided to expose Wahoo in the expansion draft after the 1965 season and Miami grabbed him. He lasted three seasons in Miami. He was traded to San Diego but never played for them. His pro football career ended when he punched out two San Diego police officers. His football career was all but over when the Jets won the Super Bowl in January 1969. But he continued pro wrestling another 28 years.
Ephemeral? Not so fast, my friend, legendary Native American, Edward "Chief Wahoo" McDaniel became a pro wrestling star for several decades.
@@algoritmosalfredohipicasig7116 Wahoo was a really well known "baby face" (good guy) in the wrestling world. He and Ric Flair had many epic matches.
Loved Henry in On Golden Pond
Dorothy looks so pretty
I'm certain I've seen this episode before. Was it one of the few full episodes available here before Gary started posting? Either that, or I happened to catch it one of the few times I saw the show on GSN.
John is so delicate when the panelist get a no.
Dorothy's wigs were visibly obvious. All the attention given to makeup and clothes, I'm surprised the forehead hairline wasn't concealed. Instead a hard straight line is seen. This is true with other styled wigs she wore as well. Wigs were a popular fashion choice during the 50' and 60's.
She may have worn them more than I thought
Why cares about wigs. Will you complain about her clothes, her makeup, her shoes, her voice?
Not only were wigs popular (more so in the 1960s) but “partial” hairpieces were popular as well. An example of this was the contestant who was the stockbroker in this episode.
“You must be a very proud father,” suggested John. Notice that he chose not to reply to that? Hmmmm.
I did notice that, and was somewhat curious as to why.
Half the set has changed in this episode.
The other half will change after this episode.
*****
Could you point out exactly what has changed? I know you had mentioned it before, but I didn't notice any drastic change while watching the show, and in fact wondered if this were still a taped episode. At the top of the program, indeed the word "live" was not audible in the introduction to the show, but neither was there any announcement at the end of the show having been prerecorded. This may be another case of the kinescope having been edited to delete the word "live" from the audio track -- a practice which I know has been discussed on this channel before. Do I remember correctly that there were several speculations but no definitive reason given for why this seems to occur sometimes but not always?
SaveThe TPC This IS a live episode. We won't be seeing anymore taped episodes, until we get to December 1964.
SaveThe TPC Now for your other question (fairly long post).
The walls behind the panel and host look much more refined. They now have a horizontal-line texture, as opposed to the woven texture that was first seen on February 8, 1959.
Beginning with the next episode, they made further changes to the set. Gone were the sponsor I.D.'s for the host and panel desks, and in were new desk coverings that looked like hi-fi stereo systems. They also changed the background that was seen when the panel and host made their entrances, and the sign-in board now displayed the "What's My Line" logo from 1962 (later replaced with the 1965 logo).
However, because the next episode is lost, we'll be seeing the extra set changes on the 9/27/64 episode instead.
SaveThe TPC Yes, you're remembering correctly (at least as far as I'm concerned) that no definite explanation of the editing out of the word "live" has been arrived at. The theory previously proposed, that this was due to time zone shifting, never made any sense to me and I found good evidence that it wasn't the case. But I'd be hard pressed to remember the details of it at this point!
***** Thanks as always for the very informative post, Vahan. I doubt I ever would have noticed this kind of detail!
My taste buds don't taste the wine...To me all dry wine taste the same...The only thing I really can tell if the wine has any body to it..Other wise it all taste the same..
3:19--Jerry Herman 1931-2019
RIP.
Do you have episodes from the coloured what’s my line the new version with just Arlene?
John uses the phrase "painting the lily" at about 8:20. Is that exactly the same as "gilding the lily"?
Yes
The origin of the phrase is Shakespeare's play King John. The quotation reads, in part, "To gild refined gold, to paint the lily / To throw a perfume on the violet. . .. / Is wasteful and ridiculous excess." Instead of saying "paint the lily", most people say "gild the lily". That misses the point, though. To gild is to cover with a thin layer of gold. To gild refined gold is pointless and, as Shakespeare said, an excess.
Who was that banshee screaming in the audience at the top of the show? I think it really irritated Dorothy.
Joe Postove
I did notice that it was a rowdy crowd, but I thought Dorothy looked flattered at the attention. I certainly am not used to hearing that kind of yelling from the WML audience. (The sounds in question are at around 0:56 and 1:35.)
I think Bennett knew Henry was in town.
Are you missing the net episode with Carol Channing?
+Purple Capricorn Yes-- that episode is presumed to be lost.
doug w Carol Channing was on WML several times-- Purple Capricorn was specifically asking about the program from the week following this one, which is a lost episode.
How did these women get and keep and manage and maintain these hairstyles? I'm fascinated by them, and I actually like them. But are these all their own hair that's just teased and set beyond crazy? Or are they ALL (ALL these women for the past several years) wearing full wigs? Or hair pieces? HOW do they do it, I want to know! Because they may be wild but they look like art, they don't look off the wall.
I do not know about the panelists wearing wigs, good question! But I do know that I teased my hair to look like the bouffant on Dorothy, brushing a front piece downwards that was not teased, and then backcombing a lot of the 'fall', which was followed by placing the unteased portion over that, and then hairspraying it like crazy. Hope this helps!
They are teased like crazy and then sprayed likewise before the teasing flattens. Stiff as boards. But pretty and last all day.
It looks as if Bennet Cerf was once again tipped off with guessing the celebrity guest.
Taped?
Joe Postove Nope. Back to live airings.
Henry Fonda's voice was so badly disguised... even I, a mere European , would have guessed him on the first "Non" he gave..
Unfortunately, Gary, we're going to have to skip the next episode: #731; September 20, 1964. It doesn't exist anymore.
Gary please update the description to this episode, as well as the description to the September 27, 1964 episode, with this tv.com link.
www.tv.com/shows/whats-my-line/episode-731-97739/
I think people might be questioning why this episode is being skipped.
It's noted in the next episode's description, but thanks, Vahan. No one's going to be wondering about the missing episode until it gets skipped.
What's My Line? I wonder if there was a memorable moment from that episode Gil Fates wanted to use for the special?
Would be interesting if Gil Fates bought up that episode with Arthur Godfrey and three female guest panelists in his book.
***** There's a good chance they were at least considering its use for the special, yes, and that would imply something particularly memorable happened. :(
I'm rereading the Fates book for the 3rd time now, but I don't think this show is mentioned in there.
I’m quite the same
The "Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker" episode mentioned: ruclips.net/video/A_35mJDZnLI/видео.html
I think Bennett had a crush on Jane Fonda, even when Henry and Peter were on the show he asked them where she was.
"I have wonderful news Carol is going to be on the panel with us next Sunday night," says John making a tacky dig at Tony Randall.
I'm not sure where in the video you're hearing that, but if he said that, it wasn't a serious dig at Tony Randall, for goodness sake. It was either just a joke, or enthusiasm for Carol Burnett. Since she wasn't on the panel the next week, I assume it was a joke.
Tony Randall was the second most frequent guest panelist on WML-- he was on the panel 62 times. Clearly this wouldn't have been the case if John disliked having him on the show, no? And even if he DID dislike Tony Randall, John was the model of politeness and civility. He'd never have insulted a guest on air. The one and only time John ever insulted anyone-- not counting when it was just a joke-- was Henry Morgan, in response to Morgan having been very rude to Bennett in a 1967 show. That's it.
Rewatch what John said to Tony in the intro.
It was not...John just was too wordy.
Just because John was enthusiastic about a guest panelist, it does not mean that he was insulting anyone on this episode's panel. That would be like me assuming that someone hated my skirt because they told me that they admired my blouse.
The only other clarification needed is that the Carol being referred to by John was Channing, not Burnett. He mentioned it after Jerry Herman gave a good deal of credit for the success of "Hello Dolly" to Miss Channing.
Henry Fonda kissed Arlene's hand and shook Dorothy's. Makes sense to me.
Arlene had a natural warmth that Dorothy did not, but that did not make Dorothy a bad person. She had to navigate the macho world of journalism, which made her incisive and tough, and she was not afraid to trash celebrities in her column, making more than a few enemies along the way.
Perhaps, you noticed that contestants and MG alike were all attractive and possessed the initial "H," that wasn't a coincidence, rather a code-incident for the date September 13th.
The wine stewardess was dangerously low on brain cells. Apparently utterly clueless on everything.
So without blindfolds they couldn’t recognise Jerry Herman sorry, but incredulous is the word.
And they are all theater people, too! Dolly was the big hit of the season, and it was not Jerry Herman's first theatrical venture.
It took all these years, but I've FINALLY made up my mind about John. No matter WHAT he did, I couldn't stop liking him. But I decided tonight that I DON'T like him. And it's a shame too because he was always such a nice guy.
Even when he flipped over those cards on almost every episode for no reason, I wanted NOT to like him, but I couldn't. But tonight, he flipped them over for no reason whatsoever for BOTH contestants. I FINALLY got fed up with him flipping the cards over for those who have 40 and 45 points and yet when a person has 10 and 15 points, he leaves it at that :(
Flipping the cards made no difference. They all got the full prize.
I simply cannot fathom your obsession with John flipping the cards. Nobody else on the planet gives a damn about that.
So with blindfolds they got Henry Fonda in seconds - even more incredulous.
Bennett would read up on who was in New York
What a dishonor to have Hanoi Jane as a daughter!
What's my whine.
yawnnnn
You must sh!t for commies, because you are full of it.
You mean a daughter who is a traitor?
What's my whine
After watching dozen of these episodes, I really think that Dorothy cheats.... ....
- She does not.
Michele0403 how?
She was an investigative journalist with a very good brain. She just knew how to ask questions.
Cmon. Get real. She is a smart cookie and columnist who.knows what is happening in L.A.
Back when my family watched WML in the '50s, my mom often accused Dorothy of cheating. But I seriously doubt it. This was after the quiz show scandals. They wouldn't have risked it.
Kilgallen writes "Broadway Coast to Coast" doesn't recognize the man who just won the Tony for best musical... fake news
You are fake, brainless.