Saab STRANDED in a Parking Lot? (9-3 V6 Quirky No-Crank)
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- Опубликовано: 30 апр 2024
- Got a call for a 2006 Saab 9-3 V6 that is refusing to CRANK in a parking lot.
There is a loud "CLICK" when you try to crank it, but the engine does not turn over.
BAD STARTER, Right?
Owner already removed and "bench-tested" the starter, but it seemed to be OK, so he reinstalled it.
Let's do some basic checks and see if there are more variables on this Quirky European...
ASTRO DC AMP CLAMP:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08MTCMWLB?...
AMAZING TEST LIGHT:
www.amazon.com/dp/B000M5ZWBA?...
THINKTOOL PROS:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08XXWHQVJ?...
Enjoy!
Ivan 
Авто/Мото
Customer:" 200 dollars to push a button?". Mechanic " Actually 10 dollars to push a button but another 190 dollars to know what button to push".
More like $190 to discover that you had a button.
I was involved at the development of that device. First of all it is a steady state Relay (Safety Relay), which can be tripped by several events coming from AirBagModule. Saab was in the GM group at that time. Since Sveden has the most straight country roads with rare traffic, Saab were concerned about head to head collisions with other cars. All wires were fused, except the Starter/Generator wire. In Case of an accident, the Safety Relay tripps and disconnect the starter circuit. Saabs engineers were concerned at that time, when a crash happens, the airbags were deployed, the car wouldn't be able to operate any more. They drew a situation where that happens on train crossing or at any other situation where you need to restart vehicle. Saab wanted at that time a reset button - the yellow knob. I was working at Delphi that time. After Saab installed it, many other European OEM's went to a pyrofuse, which was 1/3 of the cost but not reversable. After a crash event with airbag deployed, driving off the scene is the most unirportant thing. To my understanding tripping should be only by SRS.
Greetings from Germany.
I worked on developing the airbag module for a couple of Saab models and was going to respond with the same info. Some vehicle manufacturers have battery-cutoff that is triggered after an accident. Not sure why you got that triggered without an event (it doesn't trigger by itself - you should also have airbags deployed if it was commanded to trigger.
All caused by the left front turn signal bulb failure ;)😂
I fixed that too by removing and reinstalling the bulb 😂
❤
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnosticsactually it may come back or socket had higher resistance. I would get that ,bulb was good then weeks later blub would be blown.I guess resistance rises as the filament gets to end of life triggering code
@@chrisevans7416this is true. All euros are notorious for this.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics No parts required!
The battery disconnect switch is controlled by the airbag module and is designed to shut off high current wires in the event of a crash
Safety focused as always, haven't seen them on Australian models.
Potholes can cause that to trip
As an Aussie ex-SAAB mechanic we didn’t have that fitted 🤷🏻♂️
It's because Saab are "born from jets ' When jets crash I guess they trip the high current breaker.
If only fusible links existed.
V6 with the 6 speed manual is pretty cool. 😎
Yeah, reading the manual could have made a difference.
Reminds me of the red button inertia switch in the trunk of the Ford Crown Vic.
This is not a breaker for overcurrent or overtemperature. It is strictly a disconnect switch that can be triggered by the front impact protection system (airbag). A quick search found another Saab owner who had it trip after a low battery condition. Maybe there is a quirk where this switch can sometimes trigger in a low voltage situation. The low voltage code confirms that there has been a low voltage condition.
Page 228 in the owner's manual "Battery disconnect switch 3
"
RTFM problem at hand
Hopefully this SADD wasn't owned by an engineering student?
Should have been on page 1 🙃
THE MAGIC YELLOW BUTTON, LMAO.
I can't believe they were to cheap to have green show when working. I think the last 3 starter problem I had were all green wires at the connector where insulation pulled back.
You need to push it to load it!
This case was messy because battery testing was done by the owner and maybe even somebody tried boosting which might have tripped that current sensor. I found your use of a current clamp to be a novel way to advance the diagnosis without searching for the starter, an interesting idea. For the guy at the roadside with minimal tools, I like a 4 step mod of ScannerDanner's three step algorithm, even though the sensitivity of some steps may be a little weak. Of all the diagnostic pathways in auto repair, no crank no start at the roadside easily fits a cookbook checklist. Bravo to you for a thought provoking video!
No parts required! Nice work Ivan. Glad you didn't get hit by a car.
The thing about starter motors is they want to turn at a target speed and will, depending on voltage, draw all the amps it needs to reach the design speed. It the voltage is higher, it can reach design speed with fewer amps. But if the voltage drops below 12.0, the motor will try and draw more amps to reach the design speed. The one code indicated a possible low voltage situation had occurred.
I think Eric O would push that button and say “contact” as he turns the key 😂
...and Rainman Ray would say..."click"...
So would Matt at Diesel Creek
smoke test lol
What would Derek from VGG say?
I was thinking more of LS George's "HOW BOUT NOW?!"
I love my 2005 93 2.0T !!
Them goofy Saabs. I have 5 of 'em.
"It is a SAAB thing"🤣Cheers Ivan.
We learn new things every day!
I have a 2006 9-3 but it's a 4 cylinder automatic, and it does not have a circuit breaker on the positive terminal. That looked stock. I have no idea. GM took over SAAB in 1995 and ran the company into the ground in my opinion. I have owned three real SAABs and they were amazing cars. Two 99s and a 900 turbo with a five speed. Now that I own one from the GM era I can see the huge difference in the quality of the engineering. After WW2, SAAB assigned sixteen aircraft engineers the task of designing and manufacturing cars. So basically what you had was a fuselage with no wings. They were designed to function at the highest level of performance and were easy to repair because aircraft engineers took into account that the vehicle would need to be serviced at some point, unlike most automobile manufacturers. If you removed all of the badges from my car, you would guess it as a Chevy. Everything on it had the GM logo. It has the Ecotec engine. Everything is GM with the only nod to SAAB are the badges. I just wish mine had a V6 with a 6 speed.
Control. Alt. Delete. 😀 makes up for some of the crazy ones.
Happy midnight from Hawaii.
Had a van with the cable running below the front of the engine , some how that cable failed . Routed a new cable to the starter , still working .
I worked at Saab dealer in 70/80’s.
Sorry A$$ Auto Builder was their moniker then.
I can think of very few things I enjoyed about working on them.
Except easy hood removal and clutch replacement.
I worked at a SAAB dealer late 80s to late 90s. Our saying was "SAABS make jobs". The 79-93 900 was a great car to work on. I wasn't a fan of the 9000. Once GM (Grenade Makers) got involved it went downhill fast.
@@mlieser1230Yep. I worked on Sonnett, 99 and 900’s. Saw a few 9000’s.
Our PDI joke was to look under it. If it was leaking all the fluids then it was ready for delivery.
Started own shop in 1986 and we just sold in 22 though I retired from full time 8 yrs ago. My brother finally had enough physical ailments that we sold out.
You can sure lose your edge quickly. That’s why I keep up with the tech here. And I come away with no skinned knuckles or aching back ‼️
@@dharley189 I did my own thing part time for awhile doing mobile service for SAABs. I got away from it when the supply of 900s dried up. You sure do lose your edge when you are away from the business. RUclips is a great place to keep up with all this modern technology.
How about a video on what used cars to not buy or own based on your repair experience.
Just see which ones appear the most often in my videos...don't buy those HAHA
Ive owned my 93 for 22 years 2003 have done regular maintenace and have only had minor issues all fixed with no parts from wiper motor to door locks
Thanks Ivan!
Nice job, Alex!
Saab Things..
How easy !
Just push the reset button. 🤣
Or $500 for circuit breaker assy 😂😂
I bought no crank Volvo v50 2.0d (PSA crap) from customer. It has also fuse to the starter/alternator power.
Alternator was seized up and blew that fuse. It’s some kinda crash safety so the big power cables won’t light the car up on flames if they get contact with the body/gnd.
Wow, never seen that before circuit breaker trip in saab . Nice fix Ivan! Awesome video!
Maybe the circuit breaker tripped due to a weak battery or bad connection on the hot? That would raise the current draw.
Cranking sounds a bit sluggish to me? Time will tell.
Penn State appears to be located about 9 miles from Pennsylvania Furnace. IIRC you did your graduate work there. When I was in college (in the early 80's) my roommate had a 900 Turbo. One of the weirdest cars I have ever driven. GREAT VIDEO!
Love Saab content. Strange that for PA you don't get more of them - Central Penn SAAB Club and SAABs@Carlisle are right there.
Can I have some more please?
That's like 2 hours away lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Yes. That's closer that 5H away or New York and Virginia!
Good morning Ivan. Always great videos. My guess would be, a bad spot on starter armature or possibly some oil/grase got on the brushes. If wiring and cables all good.
Nothing like working in a parking lot full of cars coming and going! I enjoy your videos!
Actually it's long term parking for undergrads, so basically no traffic :)
Sweet diagnostic !
Love it !
Thanks again .
👊🏼 🔥 💻 📈 🧰
Safety and technology you got to love it ! Could there be a bad solenoid be the cause of the breaker tripping and it only lands on it once it a while ?
Because the battery was dead, they jump started the battery and opened that circuit breaker. The customer will never tell you the lack of mental ability
Even a Saab can't fool you! Ivan, you're the man!!!
Saabs are quirky alright. As others have mentioned, that's a safety feature. It was a factory feature that was on and then off of some models.
I like that switch that's a very good design wish more cars were designed that way
Thanks for the video Ivan. I noticed a 4 year old never start battery.
Thanks for the "sob" story LOL
Last time I was up this early was two days ago.
and it was well worth it. Light bulb day. I was a little shocked he didn't pull apart the dash like he did with the UFO cars gauge. But still a nice trick with the resisters. Shame they don't sell temp sensors with a resistance range so you could just swap in the amount you need.
Nice video. I hit the like button and hit the triple sevens. I guess I should have went to the casino next door instead. 🤣🤣
We used to say if you owned a Saab, you better have a Toyota at home in the garage because you will need it. Those cars spent a lot of time on the hook around here.
That's crazy but good for us to learn from and for the owner who didn't have to buy any parts.
I've seen that circuit breaker before. But never saw it trip before. That's pretty cool. Usually, it's some stupid proprietary fuse that's always a pain to replace.
Age, salt, Pa roads (potholes) caused the left side bulb issue and likely the circuit breaker to trip too easily..... Might be a good idea to locate a non-rust belt used replacement. Circuit breakers will tend to trip or even fail after repeated trip events.
Could have been a shorted battery cable near the starter. Customer moved the cable when he took the starter off.
Hello USA! Saab is a rare model even in Europe. Some things are different about Saab. For example, the model with a mechanical gearbox has the ignition lock at the gear lever and you have to switch to a certain gear to get the ignition key. The very old model had such a handbrake that was built into the front wheels. The old Saab used to have one in the gearbox the lever that engaged and disengaged the freewheel clutch, when you let go of the gas pedal, the gearbox did not pull the engine along.
I can tell you engine ground is thru drivers side engine mount i had issues where galvinic corrosion ate the threads on ground wire engine mount.Replaced it with a stainless bolt and nut 10 years ago
We're a sucker for a Saab story!! 😂😂😂
Very interesting case, symptom and fix 👍
My 2016 Kia Rio starter made once in January this kind of click sound too, it was the coldest time of the winter (around -30°C), but it happened just once. Turned lights and interior fan off after that click insident, and it started normally, and has been starting normally always after that one day.
There's black box in the battery negative cable, probably some voltage or current sensor for start&stop system (agm battery too), but no button. In the plus side, there's a 10 amp fuse called AMS, and some black box, again no button. No check engine or any other lights in the dash.
I was initially thinking maybe my battery voltage was low, but this video brings it in new light and gives some ideas to check if it happens again and won't go away.
Well since you don't have a circuit breaker you definitely don't and won't have this problem. Chances are you need to clean your battery cable connections and make sure they're tight. Your symptom sounds exactly like a poor connection, the heat of 200+amps trying to jump a poor connection actually temporarily fixed the connection.
@@truracer20 Thanks for the advice, I'll keep it in mind :)
Gotta love getting an easy one for once. :)
ive seen mega fuses on semi trucks for fuse boxes etc
but also have never seen on starter positive…
nice no parts required…..
You are a lot younger than me but when I called under cars I always had large pice of cardboard with me hope this helps like always great video.
I'm going to say it was late at night, or cold, or both when the daddy looked at it. Both factors that would not slow Ivan one iota!
Simple to complex.
start with basics:
-power
-ground
Had a 900 V-6, late 90's I think...had some Delco parts so it was when GM had their hands in with Saab...one of the most comfortable cars I've ever driven...the seats were like gloves...mystery electrical gremlins though....Got stranded at a concert in the rain....no crank...no start...but the wipers would actuate when tring to crank it!!!..we slept in the car for a few hours after the rain stopped.....then she started and got us home....sold the car not long after that....
Sounds more like God was keeping you safe in that nice V6 SAAB for whatever reason until the storm passed.
Had something very similar on my Ford Transit tipper truck here in the U.K. - peculiar no cranks then just as peculiar starts after it had changed its mind. Then it began doing wobbly throttle after ten minutes driving and deciding to go into limp mode. As I was running a large construction site at the time and had a choice of eager mechanics - I took the easy option and that gained me a £260 fine for breaking down in a restricted area ( yes, they do that over here! And it doesn't do you any good to complain because the appeals system is biased in their favour and the charges continue to grow!!!) Mind you, in the end, the damned thing shutdown in the fast lane of the M25 (think very busy and dangerous motorway) when I had to vacate the vehicle to stand on the concrete (median) till rescued by the Highway Patrol ( U,K. equivalent) they were very reasonable and helped rather than issuing tickets ( citations ).
Never seen it before but this Ford has TWO batteries under the driver's seat and there's cut our gadgets on both POS and Earth ( Ground) it was GREEN CRUSTY heaven down there too - so like some of your diagnoses - professionals nil pointes!
If it is just a circuit breaker, high resistance of course, from poor connections and or the crusties in the cable. And that is considering that starter is good. Or if as mentioned below it is a safety cut out controlled by the airbag,though it did not appear to be involved in a collision. Good morning Ivan, have a great day! 👍👍🇺🇸
Maybe someone bumped the car backing out. It's the anti carjack mode. carjackers box you in, starter cuts off.
...or the battery was low, somebody tried to jumpstart it and it tripped the breaker.
Might need to be colder to see the max load CCA. Nice to have feature if the starter grenades I suppose. Tally another NPR!
P228
Battery disconnect switch 3
Warning:
If the battery disconnect switch has tripped, do not reset it until you have visually inspected the car's electrical system.
If there are visible signs of damage, have the car checked at a workshop before resetting the disconnect switch. We recommend that you contact an author-ised Saab workshop.
A collision could cause a short circuit in the alternator or starter motor. A disconnect switch by the battery's positive terminal cuts off the battery from the alternator and starter motor when the airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners are detonated.
Notice:
Exercise special care when removing and fitting the positive (+) cable so as not to damage the battery disconnect switch.
On an older car I would consider the breaker becoming weak and no longer up to spec.
Reading through the comments reminded me of a man that I went to do a first aid certification & he had one I questioned him why a SAAB & his answer was they are so cheap second hand that when they stop going he would just buy another one (the one he was driving was No.3).(AUS)
Now that was weird Ivan, go figure I wonder why thats there?
Maybe some high current draw from accessories while trying to start the car when it was really cold out? If the battery is in great condition and the lights are on, heater is full blast and heated seats are on and you jump in and just try and crank it really fast it perhaps would trip the breaker? I imagine a cold morning, you leave the heated seats on and heater when you shut off the car and later after class you just jump in and try and start it as quick as possible to get it heated up with heater and heated seats still on and you do that so fast that the accessory relay barely has time to actuate so you get a large current spike... seems like a likely scenario, but idk.
Sometimes you have to push buttons to get what you want.
Hey Ivan, any automotive electrical books you recommend? Trying to make electrical my forte. Thanks!
Bench testing a starter got me 1 time. I took it off and it spun just fine. Seemed fine but when I put it back on the vehicle it just cranked very slow. N then gave up again. Just didn't have enough strength left in it.
I think the starter is tired and pulls excessive amps when it tries a hot start. May have an internal short, It has a donkey H6 battery too
i bet they had a flat battery from leaving something on and then tried to jump it and shorted the main lead out.
Most expensive button push in history. Of course if they would have had it towed to a shop there is a good chance they would have fired the parts cannon at it then they would have had to call you , because who else would think of pushing a button. LOL
RTFM problem
Expensive tripped circuit-breaker. Then again, I have never seen this on any vehicle I have owned.
Just a FYI about min max current readings. Using min/max can skew the results due to the initial current surge. More accurate to measure starter current while the engine is cranking, and not use min /max.
I was interested in the initial surge, since that is exactly when a circuit breaker would blow :)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics The breaker should be tolerant of surges, question is how much current surge is acceptable. Thats why an average current is a better indication of starter & engine condition. Just thinking out loud.
Another Saab sob story
Ivan i can tell you why it tripped My dad's boat engine a Vovolo Penta did something Basically the same it has to do with the battery connections it detects a arc it will do that if there's a jumped connection it will do that
LOL,, doh.. 278, finicky breaker, but whats the rating on/for it. Would recommend keeping an eye on it and if and how it should just be bypassed if it refuses to reset after a marginal cool down.
...this has to be Ivans shortest video/repair....👍
Is the switch OEM or Aftermarket? Very Interesting
Majic!
Ivan, where do I go to get one of those magic yellow buttons installed? 😅
Yeah that happened to me lol next to a gas station he couldn't help me so I had to call a tow truck lol.
Should imagine the owner is feeling a bit silly now!
Attempt to change starter with battery connected, led to wrench short open breaker?
sometimes it's easy. no parts required!
Are you sure that the main feed cable to the starter motor is connected in the right place on the battery pole? It would be more natural for the cable to the generator to go through such a fuse
No replacement fuse required!
Maybe the car was bumped while sitting and that could trip the switch?
First time I've seen that as well. If that breaker is original (not an aftermarket addition), it should be on the user's manual, right? 😅
That battery is on borrowed time.
easy saab story :P
Why did the breaker trip? The car is just pining for the fjords. ;)
Saab owners take note!
I wonder if someone shorted out that starter cable.
I wonder if that’s oem or aftermarket. Is it also a battery disconnect maybe installed previously for a parasitic draw? I’ve definitely never seen an actual circuit breaker attached to the terminal. It would make sense to do for most cars because of all the times people jump their car backwards and blow hundreds of dollars worth of fuses and labor replacing them!
Idk everything looked OEM! Quirky Saab! 😅
One way to trip it is to try cranking the engine with a gear selected and the handbrake enabled.
Can't crank without depressing the clutch ;)
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics One of those fancy ones. :P :P :P
Ivan, "What the heck, that's a problem" vs Eric O, "There's your problem lady" 👍 Wouldn't it be cool if all cars had a magic yellow button that fixed electrical problems.
No one told the owner about this device? I'm for safety too, but this is a little extreme.
Dang.