It wasnt the plane that won, it was the pilot. The 18 had him dead to rights over and over, but the pilot missed. We(vfa146) won the boola boola over and over the 16. The F/A 18 is an amazing aircraft in expert hands. 🙂
I'm not sure about this one, guys. I don't really think this proves anything other than that some people are flat better dogfighters than others. That is to say, I don't think this video really does anything other than showcase the aircraft themselves and how skewed tests like these can be due to the skill of the pilots.
Yes, that was a highly unacademic approach, to be honest. Take one pair of contesting jets first, let all the pilots in the team have at least three rounds in the same plane against the other, then let the pilots swap the planes. Use standard meteorological conditions, no weather, no clouds, put them over some perfectly flat terrain or water. Do it at noon. Also, make everyone switch to the graphics settings maximizing the fps and the visibility and turn on the labels. That way you'll make that into a proper machine on a machine contest, as it should have been. As it is now, it's just a series of matches against the pilots in the team. Fun to watch, yes, but it doesn't really say anything about how good the jets themselves are in a dogfight. And yes, that's a good point that the Flanker had next to no screen time in here, while the Mirage got very little of it, but still looked impressive. Also, please don't use SFM planes for experiments like this. Hopefully, one of these days the Fulcrum will get its physics update, but for now it's rather a UFO than a plane. Again, still enjoyed watching it. Especially the two on one fight against the Mirage.
Problem: MiG-29 specialists are hard to come by in DCS and will continue to be until the PFM, at which point everyone and their mother will be a self-proclaimed MiG ace. Mirage specialists are also not as common as you'd think, despite it being a fantastic aircraft
That's why I said MiG-29 or anything else with SFM shouldn't be a part of any test while driven by a human pilot. As for the outburst of self-proclaimed MiG aces after the PFM, well, wasn't it like that for pretty much every plane? But yes, you have a point there. If the majority of the pilots in the test are not familiar with the Soviet planes and the Mirage, that will only contribute to the machines losing in such a test. The task has grown in complexity then, hasn't it? So, after all, it should be the best pilots for each particular aircraft to compare them while doing several matches. But then the test doesn't make much sense... It simply boils down to which plane you are most resultative with. And then, to how good a pilot you actually are compared to others. So, in the end there is no "best dogfighter plane" out there, only "the best dogfighter plane for me at the moment".
Always gonna be hard to get guns kills against a faster fighter, the F-15s can get out of the guns envelope so easily it seems. Id like to see this redone but allowing Aim-9Ms i think the results would be really different cause the F-18 can point its nose so fast with the G-limit override.
WW2 sims show some good lessons on this. Don't turn fight a Yak-1b with a 190 and don't try and outrun a 190 with a Yak-1b. For the F/A-18C, I think you need to try and get the F-15 to bite into an energy trap and get him slow. But keep your speed against slower fighters like the F-5 and don't get sucked into scissors.
It's not so much that the F-5 is a /lot/ better at low speeds, but it's overall envelope is skewed more towards the low end than an F18's is, and it can safely pull a turn at lower speeds than a hornet can before it looses control authority. TBH since an F18 can go vertical much better than an F5 (Even phantoms could for fucks sake), it should never even be an issue because an F18 should be able to use it's vertical performance to escape an F-5 in a gunfight and extend for energy before coming back, but of course this all depends on the skill of both pilots in question, actually a lot more on the pilots than the airframes. T-38 Aggressors can and will beat F-16's in dogfights, and it's defninatley NOT because a t-38 can keep up with an F-16, and the same can be said here. Even if the reapers put their best hornet pilot (if they even knew who it was yet) against the F-5, They'd have a hell of a time winning because Tail seems to really know what he's doing in his F-5. he's flying it in almost every mission, and we've all seen him down flankers in it, so that's not surprising.
To be fair, the Phantom does have near-as-makes-no-difference 32,000 pounds of thrust, the vertical was always its big strength against similar generation planes, and it will still be a big strength when Belsimtek brings it to DCS. I imagine a lot of very frustrated Flanker and Eagle newbies getting their asses handed to them by good F-4 crews. A good F-4 crew can and will be just as competitive against more modern planes.
hvymtal, the F-15 and the Su-27 should both have superior thrust-to-weight ratios over the F-4, so the only way for either of those planes to get their asses handed to them by an F-4 is if the Rhino pilot is very good.
For some reason I keep reading comments from people that don't know anything about real combat, saying that the Mirage is the best lol. Seriously I almost choked I laughed so hard. First off I know ALOT of pilots in the US air force and my older brother is a actually a F-15E pilot. I spent over 10 years in the US army myself. Not only has my brother said but alot of other figher pilots told me that one of the last aircraft that they worry about is the Mirage 2000. They actually said it is one of the easiest fighters to shoot down. But in REAL combat, most kills are going to happen long before they get into visual range. That is what makes the F-22 and F-35 the best fighters in the world. Also from what I know is that the F-15 is still a beast and has one of the best radars and avionic packages in the world. The Mig 29 is just target practice for US pilots. I always get a good laugh at civilians that think they know what they are talking about. And anyone that thinks that the Mig 29 was ever a real threat to US fighters, they should go read what one US pilot said about it after he flew in a German Mig 29.
F-14As. With TF-30s. OK, hope y'all like L-Stall warnings/compressor stalls. "If it says Pratt&Whitney on the engine, it better say Martin-Baker on the seat." The TF30 engine "in the F14 is probably the worst engine-airplane mismatch we have had in many years. The TF30 engine is just a terrible engine and has accounted for 28.2 percent of all F14 crashes."
The TF-30 was not a bad engine per se, but it really was for the F-14. Did just fine in the F-111, the role the TF-30 was originally designed for. Really, they would have been better off re-using the J79 in the F-14 :P Nobody except the purists, 80s campaign players, and masochists will be flying the A. The F-14B will be the default option in most cases, most likely.
hvymtal The TF-30 was initially a bad engine in any aircraft that it was used in, be it A-7, F-14A, or F-111(don't know about Mirage G/F2). You always had to "fly the engines instead of the airplane." Part of the problem with the F-111 was attributed to the intake design, but the original engines were still prone to compressor stalls. The engines still needed to be completely redesigned to iron out the problems. The original "party trick" of the early TF-30s in F-14As would be exploding due to compressor blade disintegration, not just compressor stalls. The J-79 would not have been a good alternative to the TF-30 simply because it consumed fuel at a much higher rate and provided less thrust.
I love dog fights. I know its not easy when you get the stick on hand but if I am not mistaken Sherman had to go for high yo-yo on 2:05 or convert it to high G barrel roll attack; if the bandit pass turns it to high G turn on opposite direction turn of the bandit. in this case 2:08 hard left. but sherman decide to pull up. 3:23 had to roll and continue to keep track of it. but sherman didnt go for scissors nor on the tail of him he decided to pull up, that was a big mistake Great one cap on 7:55 it is awesome. This recording os one of the best.
That was not an easy kill. F18 had just come out of a stall speed high yo-yo. At the same time, the M2000 was changing his vector and coming up towards the F18. Not quite the same as War Thunder physics.
Depends on how good the F-15 and Su drivers are. With really good pilots, they can trade blows all day long, especially if its a guns-only fight. Shame we can't use the R60 non-M on the flanker and mig or the Magic 1s on the mirage, Giving each player 2 rear-aspect missiles would be an interesting twist
This was actually a great format, wait for the merge and then have at it with guns only. With multiple sorties going on one after another it made it really enjoyable. I appreciate it a great deal. I wish I could have been there, seriously considering getting into DCS avaiation.
Awesome video guys. My favorite videos are just you guys fighting each other and throwing banter around. What ever happened to Fort haven't seen old boy in a while.
You guys have TOO MUCH FUN! Enjoyed the banter! The F-15 looked BOSS? NICE work in the scissors...Love watching someone who knows how to do it PROPERLY. I am new to DCS,havent been online yet...trying to get my SA in shape with no ICONS..harder than you guys make it look. Fellers, enjoyed this one
I can confirm , absolute monster in dogfight and in the right hands you cant be beat. It was a pain watching Cap flying the Flanker and Fulcrum.. he was flying them like they were F15s. All you have to do is pull the stick as hard as you can and release it a bit once you need energy to go vertical. Using flaps also helps the 29 in certain situations, in the Flanker you can pull even harder overiding the FCS by pressing W IIRC (29 will have that too once it gets PFM) and with the 33 you can use emergency thrust which gives you 4% more RPM (hepls a lot and some versions of the 29 have it as well so i dont know if it will be included once it gets PFM).
Well, you can't be full stick back all the time, or you'll black out and lose the fight. The trick is to get it slow and then just do full power "slogging"
Depends on how fast you're going, the Fulcrum has a tendency to bleed speed very fast. If you pull full stick with full burner at around 800kph you wont black out because of the speed loss while going faster than 800kph will result in getting even more airspeed causing a black out. You just have to get the 'feel' of the aircraft which needs a lot of hours in it to get it. Its corner speed is around 650kph and it still turns pretty good at even 300kph, problem starts if you go slower than 250 which only happens if you go vertical or being at high altitudes thats why you need to release the stick a bit to gain some airspeed back. The ideal way to start a merge with the 29 and many other fighters in going 800kph and the first move is to go vertical, full burners and max stick pull. After that you'll have to plan your moves carefully. And BTW i've been flying the Fulcrum since Lock On:Demo so i have a pretty good experience/feel with it.
Turns out the F-15 is a beast when you drop those external tanks. It overpowers just about everything. The Hornet is quite good and I think you'll do even better with time. You've been flying the other aircraft for far longer and are better at it. I wonder how much the AIM-9X will help when it's released in terms of preventing a gunfight...
You should do a collaboration with other groups like maverick 104th in a no holds barred VS match. That would test the mettle of all sides. Maybe even a trophy lol
Grim Reapers I just asked him on his live steam and he's all for it. IDK how you could contact him but he said yes and he would live steam it too. This is going to be EPIC if it happens. Thanks CAP
The F-15 is very simple to get your mind around. Like all FC3 aircraft, they're pretty linear-flying and feeling (though the MiG-29 is at a whole other level of linear). The Hornet, being the project that it is, has more quirks to it, both good and bad.
As a huge F-15 fan, I was worried going into this that the more modern airframe would show it up in the low and slow. But damn, that horsepower! Long Live the King!
I hope to see this same competition when the F14 is released. Also the Tomcats slogan of "Anytime baby" was a standing challenge that it could beat the F15.
Gungriffen At Mach 0.74 and below, sure. That being said, I'd take an AIM-120 over an AIM-54 when going against fighters like we have in DCS. At ACM range, the F-14A+ will be good fun. I really hope co-op functionality it 100% flushed out on launch as well.
There U have it, the problem with the Navy & Marine's primary workhorse isn't particularly just with its lesser thrusted engines, when compared to the F-15's. Rather it was from unfortunate decisions, like what Spiderman's Uncle Ben sed in his epithet like - iconic tagline "with great powers, comes great responsibilities" one has to shoulder, likewise the same can be sed for the latest versions. When someones at the airframe developer were made known to the potential of an evn higher rating engines is in the pipes, poeps got greedy from the good what can be had from the new engines. So they made a heftier in evry bit plane out from what was its predecessor. In spite of the successor aircraft's capacity at being able to also perform a maneuver akin to the Russian's famed 'Cobra Maneuver', it but howevr ended up being more sluggish than its niftier predecessor, it was aimed at replacing, all out from the greater mass that it now had to lug around. With regard to the guest real (Servicemen) -pilots' comments, if anything was to blame regarding this Navy & Marine fighter's inability to quickly get-up to speed. That absolutely had to do with the aircraft's poor choice for a wing design, especially with such an angle to the leading-edge & as well the over extended aft-wing root. Besides, there was this much emphasised feature, what was claimed an advantageous plus-point, entirely unique to this platform alone, of the so-called "low-alt - low-speed maneuver", rubbish. I mean.."low-alt "high-speed maneuver" is truly something of a plus-point of sorts. But at "low-speeds" ?, at especially in hostile-enemy territory ? C'mon.., Ya gotta be joking.. One will get strafed & knocked out in no time. And that duznt evn need dedicated AA artillery, multiple small-arms fire from enemy combatants' assault-rifles on the ground probably might evn suffice for that job, whatmore when they have those with them.
+GrimReapers *The USN-USMC/McDonnellDouglas F-18 driver's tactics have to be tailored to known information about the bogey.* Steeply vertical energy tactics might work against the Avions Marcel Dassault Breguet Mirage 2000E, as the delta wing bleeds major speed past 15° alpha. The McDonnellDouglas F-15 developed for the U. S. Air Force is a classic dissimilar with 10% better T/W and 7% worse wing loading. The Northrop F-5, an ancestor of the F-18, has 10% T/W deficit; the YF-20, a 10% T/W advantage; both with wing loading on par but higher minimum controllable airspeed. The JASDF/Mitsubishi-Lockheed F-16EJ (the Japanese numbered this Convair Falcon development the F-2) is practically on par for T/W and wing loading but with higher minimum controllable airspeed. Among the types that might eat the F-18 for lunch are the VVS/Sukhoi-57 Forsirovannyj, a low-observable fighter-interceptor with 20% lower wing loading than the now-retired Grumman F-14 coupled to the best T/W of any pursuit jet to date; and the Armée de l'Air/Avions Marcel Dassault Breguet Rafale-C, a canard delta with a 15% wing loading advantage on the F-18.
People...this is a game. In real life ATA training, F/A-18 (in the US Navy) are trained to engage even below the threshold ceiling of 12K ft - its engine can operate at optimum even below 10K ft. That is why F/A-18 are so deadly - it can conduct operation at its maximum potential, with minimal loss of kinetic energy, at almost any altitude - an engineering marvel.
16:30 The high-pitch sound bug is still there in DCS. Porked doppler effect implementation perhaps. The new graphics engine is nice and all but right now the audi department in DCS lags terribly behind. You guys are lucky you're jet jockeys. Some WW2 stuff sounds like it's been recorded from mouth improvisation 8-/
Hope you lads had at least as much flying this as i had watching it! Which is to say....quite a lot! Yeah, in a gunfight Ps rules the day! Strap some Winders on and it's a whole new game then. For me personally, the Hornet was always one of the easiest planes to fly and control, but it's never been my favorite all in all. That would be the alpha Tomcat. Just like you, i can't wait to see how it will perform this low in a gun fight!
DCS F-15 full gas is a 9g platform. F-18 is G limited by the FCS to 5.5 G until at combat weight when it can pull 7.5ish. By starting these fights with full gas you guys are fighting the Hornet with a double handicap, weight and an inability to max perform in G. Check your FCS page.
Dogfighting the Mirage is suicide, it's flight characteristics are made for hard-core dogfighting and good BVR at high altitudes. And not just the Mirage, anyone that would go up against a delta wing in a dogfight like the Typhoon or Rafale is still suicide. Well I guess the Mirage keeps the dogfight crown. Can't wait for F16 to arrive that will be very interesting.
Depends on what the tiffy guy does, Tiffy and F-22 are pretty competitive. Extreme low speed, the F-22 will have him tho As for the Mirage, I can confirm that it is a very good dogfighter _if you know what you're doing_ , higher skill floor but higher skill ceiling. It doesn't really have a proper competitor until the Fulcrum gets its PFM. Fulcrum vs Mirage vs Viper vs Hornet is a very interesting comparison though, especially if it's a GE viper with that monster 32k lbf/142Kn engine
nice dogfighting! but it will be wrong to make conclusions about any jet, because of the human factor - one real ace will win a dogfight even if he's flying a jet with worse characteristics then his opponent. tactics, errors, terrain, clouds... too many components that matters in one dogfight. but still - the show was very nice! 👍🏻
I see Georgia map is used again in DCS game, like majority of the vids I have seen... Good dogfhighting, wish I had the game and the hotas to play it. at least I would have made my dream come true in a game :|
For some guys,at my previous comment that said about the Mirage leading the F-16 in the real world dogfight here is why: /watch?v=7hLsWKrEAhM Video is taken from a Greek Mirage 2000 EGM from the recorder.
In one set of disimilar air to air combat training engagements (dogfights) between the RAF and the USN the F-18 was beaten, without loss by the Hawk T1A!
The flight models must not be very good. The Mirage 2000 in real life is known as a fair dogfighter but it is not known as a particularly dangerous machine.
Where do you guys train usually? If you have dogfighting enthusiasts who like to train somewhat regularly, maybe I could be of assistance, a "guest appearance" of sort. I already do that with SF. :)
I think the developers of the sim/modules should give GR special privileges for the interest you guys generate on here. You guys also do testing and debugging, and those flight and radar model experiments you guys did with the Hornet were illuminating. Your South African *ahem* or is it Rhodesian flight instructor’s no bull lack of patience always gets a chuckle from me, and he seems to be quite knowledgeable for his age.
It wasnt the plane that won, it was the pilot. The 18 had him dead to rights over and over, but the pilot missed. We(vfa146) won the boola boola over and over the 16. The F/A 18 is an amazing aircraft in expert hands. 🙂
I'm not sure about this one, guys. I don't really think this proves anything other than that some people are flat better dogfighters than others. That is to say, I don't think this video really does anything other than showcase the aircraft themselves and how skewed tests like these can be due to the skill of the pilots.
Yes probably. Good fun in any case though.
Grim Reapers
Exactly. Good fun, and good content.
Yes, that was a highly unacademic approach, to be honest. Take one pair of contesting jets first, let all the pilots in the team have at least three rounds in the same plane against the other, then let the pilots swap the planes. Use standard meteorological conditions, no weather, no clouds, put them over some perfectly flat terrain or water. Do it at noon. Also, make everyone switch to the graphics settings maximizing the fps and the visibility and turn on the labels. That way you'll make that into a proper machine on a machine contest, as it should have been. As it is now, it's just a series of matches against the pilots in the team. Fun to watch, yes, but it doesn't really say anything about how good the jets themselves are in a dogfight.
And yes, that's a good point that the Flanker had next to no screen time in here, while the Mirage got very little of it, but still looked impressive. Also, please don't use SFM planes for experiments like this. Hopefully, one of these days the Fulcrum will get its physics update, but for now it's rather a UFO than a plane. Again, still enjoyed watching it. Especially the two on one fight against the Mirage.
Problem: MiG-29 specialists are hard to come by in DCS and will continue to be until the PFM, at which point everyone and their mother will be a self-proclaimed MiG ace. Mirage specialists are also not as common as you'd think, despite it being a fantastic aircraft
That's why I said MiG-29 or anything else with SFM shouldn't be a part of any test while driven by a human pilot. As for the outburst of self-proclaimed MiG aces after the PFM, well, wasn't it like that for pretty much every plane?
But yes, you have a point there. If the majority of the pilots in the test are not familiar with the Soviet planes and the Mirage, that will only contribute to the machines losing in such a test. The task has grown in complexity then, hasn't it? So, after all, it should be the best pilots for each particular aircraft to compare them while doing several matches. But then the test doesn't make much sense... It simply boils down to which plane you are most resultative with. And then, to how good a pilot you actually are compared to others. So, in the end there is no "best dogfighter plane" out there, only "the best dogfighter plane for me at the moment".
Those F15 turns after the merge are no joke
The Hornets low-speed pitch authority is simply incredible
affirm
sherman: Warren is in an F-18
Warren: F/"A"-18
lol its that "A" thing again
Great Vid As Usual Reapers!
lol that bloody A
this video should be called, Am i a Good Dogfighter? Let's Find out
Always gonna be hard to get guns kills against a faster fighter, the F-15s can get out of the guns envelope so easily it seems. Id like to see this redone but allowing Aim-9Ms i think the results would be really different cause the F-18 can point its nose so fast with the G-limit override.
WW2 sims show some good lessons on this. Don't turn fight a Yak-1b with a 190 and don't try and outrun a 190 with a Yak-1b. For the F/A-18C, I think you need to try and get the F-15 to bite into an energy trap and get him slow. But keep your speed against slower fighters like the F-5 and don't get sucked into scissors.
It's not so much that the F-5 is a /lot/ better at low speeds, but it's overall envelope is skewed more towards the low end than an F18's is, and it can safely pull a turn at lower speeds than a hornet can before it looses control authority. TBH since an F18 can go vertical much better than an F5 (Even phantoms could for fucks sake), it should never even be an issue because an F18 should be able to use it's vertical performance to escape an F-5 in a gunfight and extend for energy before coming back, but of course this all depends on the skill of both pilots in question, actually a lot more on the pilots than the airframes. T-38 Aggressors can and will beat F-16's in dogfights, and it's defninatley NOT because a t-38 can keep up with an F-16, and the same can be said here. Even if the reapers put their best hornet pilot (if they even knew who it was yet) against the F-5, They'd have a hell of a time winning because Tail seems to really know what he's doing in his F-5. he's flying it in almost every mission, and we've all seen him down flankers in it, so that's not surprising.
To be fair, the Phantom does have near-as-makes-no-difference 32,000 pounds of thrust, the vertical was always its big strength against similar generation planes, and it will still be a big strength when Belsimtek brings it to DCS. I imagine a lot of very frustrated Flanker and Eagle newbies getting their asses handed to them by good F-4 crews. A good F-4 crew can and will be just as competitive against more modern planes.
Downing Flankers doesn't mean much if those Flanker drivers struggle even with getting on an AI's six in one.
hvymtal, the F-15 and the Su-27 should both have superior thrust-to-weight ratios over the F-4, so the only way for either of those planes to get their asses handed to them by an F-4 is if the Rhino pilot is very good.
For some reason I keep reading comments from people that don't know anything about real combat, saying that the Mirage is the best lol. Seriously I almost choked I laughed so hard. First off I know ALOT of pilots in the US air force and my older brother is a actually a F-15E pilot. I spent over 10 years in the US army myself. Not only has my brother said but alot of other figher pilots told me that one of the last aircraft that they worry about is the Mirage 2000. They actually said it is one of the easiest fighters to shoot down.
But in REAL combat, most kills are going to happen long before they get into visual range. That is what makes the F-22 and F-35 the best fighters in the world. Also from what I know is that the F-15 is still a beast and has one of the best radars and avionic packages in the world. The Mig 29 is just target practice for US pilots.
I always get a good laugh at civilians that think they know what they are talking about. And anyone that thinks that the Mig 29 was ever a real threat to US fighters, they should go read what one US pilot said about it after he flew in a German Mig 29.
Rgr thx for feedback
6 years Marine Corps here and have hours of flight exp myself, mirage would never stand a chance!!! F-18 Baby all the way..
Maybe France should stop providing free health care and education and focus more on fancy jets. Like America!
F-14As. With TF-30s. OK, hope y'all like L-Stall warnings/compressor stalls.
"If it says Pratt&Whitney on the engine, it better say Martin-Baker on the seat."
The TF30 engine "in the F14 is probably the worst engine-airplane mismatch we have had in many years. The TF30 engine is just a terrible engine and has accounted for 28.2 percent of all F14 crashes."
thx
The TF-30 was not a bad engine per se, but it really was for the F-14. Did just fine in the F-111, the role the TF-30 was originally designed for. Really, they would have been better off re-using the J79 in the F-14 :P
Nobody except the purists, 80s campaign players, and masochists will be flying the A. The F-14B will be the default option in most cases, most likely.
hvymtal
The TF-30 was initially a bad engine in any aircraft that it was used in, be it A-7, F-14A, or F-111(don't know about Mirage G/F2). You always had to "fly the engines instead of the airplane." Part of the problem with the F-111 was attributed to the intake design, but the original engines were still prone to compressor stalls. The engines still needed to be completely redesigned to iron out the problems. The original "party trick" of the early TF-30s in F-14As would be exploding due to compressor blade disintegration, not just compressor stalls.
The J-79 would not have been a good alternative to the TF-30 simply because it consumed fuel at a much higher rate and provided less thrust.
A worthy price to Pat for such a maneuverable aircraft
16:27 Very Honorable
"You can always take one with you" approach.
5:13 "You fucked up, you lose" Gotta love those DCS life lessons. :)
lol yes
Grim Reapers Not as good as Waggs "let her go the full cycle" marriage fight advice (when talking about bitchin' Betty) but still solid :)
I love dog fights. I know its not easy when you get the stick on hand but if I am not mistaken Sherman had to go for high yo-yo on 2:05 or convert it to high G barrel roll attack; if the bandit pass turns it to high G turn on opposite direction turn of the bandit. in this case 2:08 hard left. but sherman decide to pull up.
3:23 had to roll and continue to keep track of it. but sherman didnt go for scissors nor on the tail of him he decided to pull up, that was a big mistake
Great one cap on 7:55 it is awesome. This recording os one of the best.
the f18 missed a lot of opportunities against the m2000 including the easy kill at 2:25
That was not an easy kill. F18 had just come out of a stall speed high yo-yo. At the same time, the M2000 was changing his vector and coming up towards the F18. Not quite the same as War Thunder physics.
GR dogfighting competition, with actual brackets, and stuff or riot :D
TOURNAMENT ARC!
I 100% think this sounds great. Although, the guys on the REDFOR side are probably going to get top marks.
ooo nice
jim volkert I approve this reference. It needs to happen
Depends on how good the F-15 and Su drivers are. With really good pilots, they can trade blows all day long, especially if its a guns-only fight.
Shame we can't use the R60 non-M on the flanker and mig or the Magic 1s on the mirage, Giving each player 2 rear-aspect missiles would be an interesting twist
I don’t know how I missed this one, but well played GR, well played!
F15, A10 and A1 are still my favorite planes. GR are a great group of guys
Love watching these dogfights! One of the most entertaining DCS videos I’ve seen.
thx
Wow, that rearview at 20:00 is intense!
WOW! What a great video! One of the best yet! Awesome dogfighting! Great job,guys!
thx
This was actually a great format, wait for the merge and then have at it with guns only. With multiple sorties going on one after another it made it really enjoyable. I appreciate it a great deal. I wish I could have been there, seriously considering getting into DCS avaiation.
The banter was great lmfao, cap was like ahhh fuck off
lols yes
Awesome video guys. My favorite videos are just you guys fighting each other and throwing banter around. What ever happened to Fort haven't seen old boy in a while.
You guys have TOO MUCH FUN! Enjoyed the banter! The F-15 looked BOSS? NICE work in the scissors...Love watching someone who knows how to do it PROPERLY. I am new to DCS,havent been online yet...trying to get my SA in shape with no ICONS..harder than you guys make it look. Fellers, enjoyed this one
thx
I suspect the Fulcrum would've faired better had someone who was accustomed to it been flying. It is an absolute energy monster
I can confirm , absolute monster in dogfight and in the right hands you cant be beat. It was a pain watching Cap flying the Flanker and Fulcrum.. he was flying them like they were F15s. All you have to do is pull the stick as hard as you can and release it a bit once you need energy to go vertical. Using flaps also helps the 29 in certain situations, in the Flanker you can pull even harder overiding the FCS by pressing W IIRC (29 will have that too once it gets PFM) and with the 33 you can use emergency thrust which gives you 4% more RPM (hepls a lot and some versions of the 29 have it as well so i dont know if it will be included once it gets PFM).
Completely agreed
Well, you can't be full stick back all the time, or you'll black out and lose the fight. The trick is to get it slow and then just do full power "slogging"
Depends on how fast you're going, the Fulcrum has a tendency to bleed speed very fast. If you pull full stick with full burner at around 800kph you wont black out because of the speed loss while going faster than 800kph will result in getting even more airspeed causing a black out. You just have to get the 'feel' of the aircraft which needs a lot of hours in it to get it. Its corner speed is around 650kph and it still turns pretty good at even 300kph, problem starts if you go slower than 250 which only happens if you go vertical or being at high altitudes thats why you need to release the stick a bit to gain some airspeed back. The ideal way to start a merge with the 29 and many other fighters in going 800kph and the first move is to go vertical, full burners and max stick pull. After that you'll have to plan your moves carefully.
And BTW i've been flying the Fulcrum since Lock On:Demo so i have a pretty good experience/feel with it.
glad to see you are finally flying the F-18^5!
Welcome back Bear!
in most of those cases of maneuvering the f-18, you could have used a speed brake to slow down and turn tighter.
Turns out the F-15 is a beast when you drop those external tanks. It overpowers just about everything. The Hornet is quite good and I think you'll do even better with time. You've been flying the other aircraft for far longer and are better at it.
I wonder how much the AIM-9X will help when it's released in terms of preventing a gunfight...
Yes absolutely when the hornet will probably win once it has it's equipment finished.
Really love watching this channel. I just bought myself into this game because of you guys. Keep up the epic content!
Welcome to the family :)
You should do a collaboration with other groups like maverick 104th in a no holds barred VS match. That would test the mettle of all sides. Maybe even a trophy lol
Affirm get them over here.
Grim Reapers I just asked him on his live steam and he's all for it. IDK how you could contact him but he said yes and he would live steam it too. This is going to be EPIC if it happens. Thanks CAP
This I would watch!
Woot! 15's need a revamp. I'd pay good money for that.
The F-15 is very simple to get your mind around. Like all FC3 aircraft, they're pretty linear-flying and feeling (though the MiG-29 is at a whole other level of linear).
The Hornet, being the project that it is, has more quirks to it, both good and bad.
Fantastic video. Great dogfighting and lots of laughs. Well done you blokes.
thx
As a huge F-15 fan, I was worried going into this that the more modern airframe would show it up in the low and slow. But damn, that horsepower! Long Live the King!
I hope to see this same competition when the F14 is released.
Also the Tomcats slogan of "Anytime baby" was a standing challenge that it could beat the F15.
Gungriffen
At Mach 0.74 and below, sure. That being said, I'd take an AIM-120 over an AIM-54 when going against fighters like we have in DCS. At ACM range, the F-14A+ will be good fun. I really hope co-op functionality it 100% flushed out on launch as well.
1:09 The words that Cap has always wanted to hear Sherman say.
lol
Love it...CAP..."I don't really know what I'm doing in a Flanker to be honest". Funny as.
lol true
There U have it, the problem with the Navy & Marine's primary workhorse isn't particularly just with its lesser thrusted engines, when compared to the F-15's. Rather it was from unfortunate decisions, like what Spiderman's Uncle Ben sed in his epithet like - iconic tagline "with great powers, comes great responsibilities" one has to shoulder, likewise the same can be sed for the latest versions. When someones at the airframe developer were made known to the potential of an evn higher rating engines is in the pipes, poeps got greedy from the good what can be had from the new engines. So they made a heftier in evry bit plane out from what was its predecessor. In spite of the successor aircraft's capacity at being able to also perform a maneuver akin to the Russian's famed 'Cobra Maneuver', it but howevr ended up being more sluggish than its niftier predecessor, it was aimed at replacing, all out from the greater mass that it now had to lug around.
With regard to the guest real (Servicemen) -pilots' comments, if anything was to blame regarding this Navy & Marine fighter's inability to quickly get-up to speed. That absolutely had to do with the aircraft's poor choice for a wing design, especially with such an angle to the leading-edge & as well the over extended aft-wing root.
Besides, there was this much emphasised feature, what was claimed an advantageous plus-point, entirely unique to this platform alone, of the so-called "low-alt - low-speed maneuver", rubbish. I mean.."low-alt "high-speed maneuver" is truly something of a plus-point of sorts. But at "low-speeds" ?, at especially in hostile-enemy territory ? C'mon.., Ya gotta be joking.. One will get strafed & knocked out in no time. And that duznt evn need dedicated AA artillery, multiple small-arms fire from enemy combatants' assault-rifles on the ground probably might evn suffice for that job, whatmore when they have those with them.
fantastic Vid - loved the dogfighting- thanks gents
+GrimReapers *The USN-USMC/McDonnellDouglas F-18 driver's tactics have to be tailored to known information about the bogey.* Steeply vertical energy tactics might work against the Avions Marcel Dassault Breguet Mirage 2000E, as the delta wing bleeds major speed past 15° alpha. The McDonnellDouglas F-15 developed for the U. S. Air Force is a classic dissimilar with 10% better T/W and 7% worse wing loading. The Northrop F-5, an ancestor of the F-18, has 10% T/W deficit; the YF-20, a 10% T/W advantage; both with wing loading on par but higher minimum controllable airspeed. The JASDF/Mitsubishi-Lockheed F-16EJ (the Japanese numbered this Convair Falcon development the F-2) is practically on par for T/W and wing loading but with higher minimum controllable airspeed. Among the types that might eat the F-18 for lunch are the VVS/Sukhoi-57 Forsirovannyj, a low-observable fighter-interceptor with 20% lower wing loading than the now-retired Grumman F-14 coupled to the best T/W of any pursuit jet to date; and the Armée de l'Air/Avions Marcel Dassault Breguet Rafale-C, a canard delta with a 15% wing loading advantage on the F-18.
Sherman, if you can't see the enemy, he is probably behind you . ;)
People...this is a game. In real life ATA training, F/A-18 (in the US Navy) are trained to engage even below the threshold ceiling of 12K ft - its engine can operate at optimum even below 10K ft. That is why F/A-18 are so deadly - it can conduct operation at its maximum potential, with minimal loss of kinetic energy, at almost any altitude - an engineering marvel.
Most entertaining dog fighting yet well done cap
thx TJ
Grim Reapers warren had sherman.....he is GOOD he needs to capitalize on his FIRST shot.
At the end of the day, you can't land a f15 on the boat. 😎
Yes, also remember that this only applies guns-only fighting
Sure you can ... that's what the barrier's for. ;-) ^v^
Don't forget to listen to THE SHEPPARD this Christmas! It's tradition.
Just search RUclips for CBC the SHEPPARD.
I love the ESF SKin on the hornet.
16:30 The high-pitch sound bug is still there in DCS. Porked doppler effect implementation perhaps. The new graphics engine is nice and all but right now the audi department in DCS lags terribly behind. You guys are lucky you're jet jockeys. Some WW2 stuff sounds like it's been recorded from mouth improvisation 8-/
CAP: "Well... you fucked up, you lose". *LOL* :)
lol yup
I wanna see you guys doing dogfights with the F14....it would be awesome
Hope you lads had at least as much flying this as i had watching it! Which is to say....quite a lot! Yeah, in a gunfight Ps rules the day! Strap some Winders on and it's a whole new game then. For me personally, the Hornet was always one of the easiest planes to fly and control, but it's never been my favorite all in all. That would be the alpha Tomcat. Just like you, i can't wait to see how it will perform this low in a gun fight!
Absoultely agree
9:50 The sound of freedom
DCS F-15 full gas is a 9g platform. F-18 is G limited by the FCS to 5.5 G until at combat weight when it can pull 7.5ish. By starting these fights with full gas you guys are fighting the Hornet with a double handicap, weight and an inability to max perform in G. Check your FCS page.
thx
Do you all plan on getting the f-16 when it's available? Fun video.
Yup sure thing
Dogfighting the Mirage is suicide, it's flight characteristics are made for hard-core dogfighting and good BVR at high altitudes. And not just the Mirage, anyone that would go up against a delta wing in a dogfight like the Typhoon or Rafale is still suicide. Well I guess the Mirage keeps the dogfight crown. Can't wait for F16 to arrive that will be very interesting.
lol
The F22 can reliably take a typhoon in a gun dogfight actually, not a rafale though (50% win chance)
Depends on what the tiffy guy does, Tiffy and F-22 are pretty competitive. Extreme low speed, the F-22 will have him tho
As for the Mirage, I can confirm that it is a very good dogfighter _if you know what you're doing_ , higher skill floor but higher skill ceiling. It doesn't really have a proper competitor until the Fulcrum gets its PFM. Fulcrum vs Mirage vs Viper vs Hornet is a very interesting comparison though, especially if it's a GE viper with that monster 32k lbf/142Kn engine
AGENT47ist i have gun down some mirage in my su-27 before, and i didn’t find it to difficult
NovorSec yeah...but who was flying the Mirage?
nice dogfighting! but it will be wrong to make conclusions about any jet, because of the human factor - one real ace will win a dogfight even if he's flying a jet with worse characteristics then his opponent. tactics, errors, terrain, clouds... too many components that matters in one dogfight. but still - the show was very nice! 👍🏻
you didnt do the su 27 justice cap
Agree, we just don't have any decent su/mig pilots in the battle
Very good video again and I learned a lot, thanks! The skies wouldn't be the same if you stay on the ground, keep on fighting 🙂
I'd love to see how the F16 compares to all the of the above.
it will win
Did the f18 use the G override? just curious for reference.
yes or at least I did so they prob did
Cap's an excellent fly by wire driver!
lol yes, well kinda
COOLEST FREAKING RUclips VIDEO EVER!!!! WELL DONE!!!!
What skin was the Hornet using that was black and red? The one that killed cap in Su27 and Mig29?
ESF skin
Which f16 collision are they talking about? 30:13
nice video but, you could just press F5 to have a view lock on enemy plane.
Roger we have banned F5
This was a test of pilot skills, not which plane is better.
I keep trying to tell people that the F15 is the dominant airframe unless you’re BVR with a Tomcat without terrain.
agree
Bought shame to the flanker
I see Georgia map is used again in DCS game, like majority of the vids I have seen...
Good dogfhighting, wish I had the game and the hotas to play it. at least I would have made my dream come true in a game :|
thrust to weight ratio is also miss judged in this video. The f15 is a beast but the f18 is just as good, depends on experience with pilot
NIce video . I love flight simulators!. Question: how can you do the "military radio" effect on voice chat? is the game or discord?
ruclips.net/video/sfXnkVX8KDg/видео.html
SRS
Sound mod for the SU-27's cannon?
neg
This is epic
32:45 Giggity!
As far as a Delta wing...remember the F-106. Yet...if the YF-17 lost to the YF-16, where is the argument?
Good point
For some guys,at my previous comment that said about the Mirage leading the F-16 in the real world dogfight here is why: /watch?v=7hLsWKrEAhM
Video is taken from a Greek Mirage 2000 EGM from the recorder.
Jesus you guys really rip each other apart for making mistakes lol, great video regardless
thx
Great video
Is that the music from Aliens at the end of the vid?
yes
Honestly, this just shows that people can’t fly the hornet properly. Overall still fun to watch.
YOU FORGOT TO TURN ON THRUST VECTORING ON THE SU-27 AGAIN CAP!
lol yes
But what about the fishbed?
LOL we did do it, but it was so useless I cut it from the vis sorry
No potatoes for you.
the swiss did those F/A-18 vs F-5 endlessly
How come theres less you tube videos on Presian gulf and same with MP servers,whats going on Dcs.
PG is not as stable for large multiplayer as Caucuses. We get a lot of crashes.
All I have to say is...."well done, well done"
that yellow/orangeish reflection on the planes is really unnatural and weird
It's probably the graphics engine getting confused about where the afterburner light source is.
yeah it indeed looks like that
How do you use a lock with the guns?
Use sensor select down, that will lock you onto a target with guns. Infact just watch the most recent A2A hornet vid please.
Do you think they will make the D model eventually?
I doubt it
It would be fair to have super hornet atleast
Top Gun stuff right here
lol
What? no INTRO music? ......"WHO LET THE DOG'S OUT?
In one set of disimilar air to air combat training engagements (dogfights) between the RAF and the USN the F-18 was beaten, without loss by the Hawk T1A!
LOL I love hawk!!!
Looked it up. Apparently the Hawk got an F-22A kill!!!!
The Hawk, in terms of meme-worthiness, is the modern counterpart to the -Po2- OP-2
The flight models must not be very good. The Mirage 2000 in real life is known as a fair dogfighter but it is not known as a particularly dangerous machine.
Roger, possibly, I am not sure as I do not drive it.
Why did Sherman keep turning into the F18????????
I see that Flanker and Mig in one`s idiot hands can`t fight at all...
Love f-18s since Independence day lolol
Which key ignites afterburbers?
Burners come on automaticalyl at full power
Grim Reapers thanks. Yeah it seemed like it when i played.
What game is this please
DCS WORLD
Where do you guys train usually? If you have dogfighting enthusiasts who like to train somewhat regularly, maybe I could be of assistance, a "guest appearance" of sort. I already do that with SF. :)
Cool Stuge. SF are amazing. Best off join the Discord server and give me a shout :)
Get some rafale clips too please
rgr
I think the developers of the sim/modules should give GR special privileges for the interest you guys generate on here. You guys also do testing and debugging, and those flight and radar model experiments you guys did with the Hornet were illuminating. Your South African *ahem* or is it Rhodesian flight instructor’s no bull lack of patience always gets a chuckle from me, and he seems to be quite knowledgeable for his age.
They don't hold much ammunition for the guns huh?
518 rounds I think