The problem with Lordship Salvation
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Music:
The first song is the music for Psalm 124 of the Genevan Psalter by Claude Goudimel. The lyrics to that can be found here:
genevanpsalter...
The rest of the music is written by me.
"It is not the strength of your faith, but the object of your faith that saves you"! Amen, brother!
You still need to have faith though. And the greek word for "faith" also means faithfulness. So without allegiance to Christ, we are not part of His body.
@@dimitartodorov4826 Amen, pistis
I don't feel like Paul Washer would disagree with this. I wouldn't be surprised if Washer said something very similar. I often hear Washer talk about making himself smaller and Christ bigger, by looking at how perfect God and his law is and how imperfect he is.
"You are not saved because your repentance and faith are perfect. You're saved because the work of Christ is perfect and you're clinging to that in you frailty and your helplessness." Paul Washer
"You are not saved because your repentance and faith are perfect. You're saved because the work of Christ is perfect and you're clinging to that in your frailty and your helplessness." Paul Washer
Maybe he said that, but that's not the message his sermons give off. That doesn't change the fact that tons of believers (especially those who have an addiction to some sin) have endless unnecessary anxiety over whether they're really saved after listening to his sermons.
@@redeemedzoomer6053exactly what i was thinking. Thats a shocking quote from washer
The quote would be shocking if you hadn’t followed the repentance and change in trajectory of his life. Years after his “shocking youth message” he brought up some errors in the message. There’s old-old (unsaved) Washer, old Washer (born-again, Lordship salvation teaching), and present Washer. He has surrounded himself with good teachers including Reformed/Presbyterians and he has changed a lot.
He tells a story of a church that invited him to preach and he presented a simple Gospel message. Afterwards some people asked him “where was the [sauce]?” (i.e. yell at us to repent). And he said that’s not what this congregation needed. They needed to know the love of God.
@@redeemedzoomer6053But the calvinistic doctrine of predestination also spread a lot of anxiety among people about the assurance of their salvation, maybe even more than lordship salvation
I think the methods of Paul Washer, while harsh, was necessary for my life and walk with Christ. I never would have truly come to Christ until I realized I am utterly utterly under His will and power, and what great love He has shown in my sinfulness that I was brought to repentance. Also, Paul Washer has definitely changed a lot over the years. I think in one interview he admits that he was too harsh in his preaching, and is more focused on Christ's love
I think the Wash man is legit. He seems like Solus Christus as a pastor. I don't agree totally with this video and I think he usually nails everything he preaches. But do not idolize Washer as he himself would say he's no model compared to our elder spiritual brother Jesus. His more recent message "Mankind in Sin" is extremely encouraging and helpful for evangelism which is a recent focus of mine.
this is perhaps one of the strangest concepts for a series that I've ever been recommended
I know 😂
@Redeemed Zoomer hey man, I'm so glad I found this video. The last 3 weeks for me has literally been this. Growing up in a christian home, I didn't have a dramatic testimony. I had been caught in sin and up until a few weeks ago it was a struggle. But through this experience of anxiety, I've seen the true depravity of sin and the weight of God's wrath towards it. It's by God's grace no doubt, my battle with lust hasn't resolved but has drastically improved. Yet I was struggling asking myself if I was a self decieved Christian. I was struggling and ridden with anxiety. I was also wrought over my sin and in anguish. And I was struggling with reformed/calvinistic theology over it at the same time. I fell in a spiral of what if I'm a vessel for God's wrath because of my sin. I didn't want to be but if that was God's purpose for me then I couldn't change it. And it broke me. But having watched this video, I think I may have been struggling with lordship salvation. For reference not that it matters l, I am SBC.
My husband and I love your videos. I’m a practicing Catholic from a loosely Catholic family, and he was baptized as a little kid but raised in an otherwise totally secular household. He’s going through RCIA to become Catholic, and we’re constantly watching channels like yours, Trent Horn’s, and Bishop Robert Barron’s to help him (and me) learn about the Christian faith.
This video explained a lot about some Baptists to me. My mom sent me to a bunch of Baptist VBS programs as a kid (free childcare and food), and the counselors would always pull me aside to ascertain that I was “truly” saved. They saw that I was very interested in God and they worried that Catholicism was holding me back, I guess. One night, I came home very distressed because I had been told that I hadn’t truly accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. The counselor had said that when he got saved, his blood ran hot, his heart raced, and he was never the same again. He said that until we all made that personal commitment, we weren’t true Christians. I can see how lordship salvation can lend to the notion that accepting Christ is a “one and done” type thing where you’re either all in or all out. Speaking from my own experience, surrendering completely to Christ is more of a longterm process. Time and again, I experience Him in startling ways that draw me in more and more. And, yes, in the past I’ve fallen away somewhat, but He always brings me back.
I know that was long-winded lol. Thanks for making these videos, and God bless!
Maybe this is an experience a lot of kids have from growing up Catholic lol. My family was Catholic (I say that loosely as my mom would only go when my grandparents made us go) and I'm an adult now and I'm still worried I'm going to Hell even though my husband and I are Christians
@@j8246 No, it wasn’t a concern of mine until I attended the Baptist VBS.
@@MarianMetanoiaHi, I enjoyed your comments. I am Catholic. I hope your RCIA experience was fruitful. I enjoyed reading your experience of VBS as I raised my children in a small town that was mostly Ptotestant but with 1/3 Catholic. The VBS were alluring but we resisted. But then Young Life came to our high school and secretly recruited many of the Catholic boys to Protestantism.
Thanks for this important discussion, RZ. Lordship salvation did in fact give me a great deal of anxiety for a while. It was only when I understood that Christ's salvation is based on His ability to save and keep us, that I was able to relax. I don't always do it perfectly, but Christ's work is enough, and His grip is perfect. Nothing we do can ever take us out of His hands.
For me, repentance is a change of mind or a change of desire. Before you came to Christ, you lived a sinful lifestyle, and you enjoyed sinning, and you just kept wanting to sin more and more. But after repenting, you change your mind about sin, and you know that sin is wrong, and you do not want to sin anymore, but you will still keep on sinning until the end of your life because our nature is sin. When a person repents, he must try to avoid sin as best as he could and must not have the desire to stay in sin anymore.
Very well said!
Hmmm, looking at repentance that way is still wrong. Even the Bible describes New Testament repentance as changing your mind from unbelief to belief”
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus’s
Acts 19:3-4
Notice how it doesn’t say “baptism of repentance, saying unto people they should turn from their sins”
Been in the mission field for over 10 years down here in Panamá. Love your content Redeemed Zoomer, and I plan on using some of your videos for my students this year🎉🇵🇦🙏🏼
This literally got recommended to me after I argued with a street preacher yesterday after he said that a “true Christian” wouldn’t struggle with sin anymore and insisted that he no longer sinned or struggled with sin since he gave his life to Christ. He told me that I was deceived and wasn’t really saved 😂 I said Christ is the author and perfecter of my faith 😂
Slap him across the face and see if he gets angry with you
If that street preacher really believes that he no longer sins… well 1 John says some less than positive things about those kinds of ppl
I can’t imagine how blind one would have to be to think they don’t sin!
That sort of Pelagianism is rampant among street preachers for some reason. As someone who flirted with their beliefs when I was a newer Christian, it’s a way to feel better about themselves, probably why they often do it at venues with rank debauchery like Mardi Gras. Pretty easy to feel “holy” there.
I'm glad youtube recommended ur channel to me, this is the typa innovation we need on RUclips😂
Thank you, thank you. I'm glad that you have clarified that problem. It means a lot to me. I was dramaticaly saved, for me it was a night/day expirience and I know what are you talking abouth. Great video, as many other of your videos. I'm glad I have stumbled on your chanel...greetings from a generation X member.😊
Repentance is a change of mind that leads to a change of action.
I really dig the music you write for your videos. Sounds like oldschool runescape music or TempleOS music lol. God bless!
Been feeling very discouraged after having been taught lordship salvation for years. You never feel like you're good enough.
i believed in Lordship in the beginning. I get why it was created, and I do like the idea of it, but I also have seen many people question their salvation from it, myself included. And what made me raise eyebrows was the fact that it could be a tainted gospel. Im not big on calling preachers who preach it full blown heretics, nor calling those who believe in it are unsaved. But yea i know exactly what youre talking about. I just want peace to serve God at the end of the day.
@@idriveastationwagon1534Yeah like continue to serve God bc He saved You first
How are doing now. I hope you have found the peace and rest that comes with trusting in Christ alone
I had a pretty radical conversion, but I’ve had a VERY hard time with assurance of salvation. When I first got saved I listened to Paul Washer constantly, almost exclusively. But I also listened to John Piper, Voddie Baucham, Ray Comfort, Justin Peters, Todd Friel, James White/Jeff Durbin/Sye Ten Bruggencate, Steve Lawson, RC Sproul, etc.
In my 6 years of being a Christian, I’ve only just now realized that reformed baptist isn’t the only brand of Christianity (honestly felt kinda vindicated when you put Baptist on C-tier in your denomination ranking vid). I think these people are brothers, but I haven't been served well by some of their teaching. Unfortunately, I also had some pretty crummy experiences of uncharitable believers in the SBC church I attended when I first became a christian.
Overall (thanks to my additional interests in heretic hunters and hyper-charismatic teachers) I developed a "superstitious fundamentalism" that damaged relationships with unbelievers, snuffed many of my personal desires, and greatly diminished my intellectual interests. All because they weren’t “spiritual” enough, or because I couldn't fit them in the spooky-spiritual-lordship-biblicism-individualist-escapism worldview I had developed.
Thanks to your videos I’m looking more into different (truly) reformed traditions and kingdom theology. And reading NT Wright’s Surprised by Hope rn. Predestination still makes me a little uncomfortable, but I’m okay wrestling with uncomfortable stuff. Although, as a Jazz enjoyer, the older music isn't my favorite. At least I can throw in some gospel chord progressions at my church 🙌
Anyway, thanks for doing what you do. I pray that God would restore the life I feel like I've lost and give me some peace and assurance of salvation.
I agree with you, however it is very important to remember that Christ himself said that we would be known by our fruits. Even if one is baptized and professes faith, if they bear no fruit, it should be cause for concern.
True. But that's the thing. No fruit. Which means that someone who shows fruit, but is caught in a particular sin, is still saved but needs help getting out of that sin and staying out. That's why we pray for each other, and have things like accountability groups etc.
When Jesus talks about being born of the water and of the spirit, he is explaining how a person can be born twice
In the context of the chapter it makes sense that he is talking about two separate events; being born of the water (physical birth), and born of the spirit (born again, by the holy spirit)
Actually, he’s making a direct reference to Ezekiel 36:24-27, a passage that Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel, would instantly recognize. It just means that in a person’s profane unclean state, God washes away their impurity and dwells within them. It is a simultaneous event, per the original reference.
I'd call that quite the stretch. If being "born of water" is physical birth, why would he say "you must be born of water and Spirit?" Everyone is physically born, it would make more sense to just say "born of Spirit" if that was his message. And even if he did mean physical birth, there are dozens upon dozens of other verses saying baptism saves. This was the unanimous understanding of the entire Church from her beginnings up until Zwingli.
One of the many problems with this doctrine is what constitutes true “lordship” that renders you saved? When you sin, is Jesus still your Lord? Can you therefore lose your salvation if you have a season of doubt or you backslide?
There definitely is something to be said for examining fruit in your life, and that some may have a false sense of security because they recited a prayer but never truly repented.
I agree with you that it can cause much anxiety and insecurity that is not biblical.
If you are not saved if you are stuck in sin then no one is saved.
It's funny how lordship salvation teachings ironicly seems to make it harder for me to resist sin. When I am at peace in God's grace upon me, it's actually easier for me to resist sin because I'm being able to rest more in God's love and faith in him, and so his love is what helps me avoid sin. I still mess up some but it doesn't cause me to weaken in resolve to keep trying to live holy because I know I'm forgiven. But then when I hear lordship salvation it disheartens me and causes me to panic and feel like I am not doing good enough and not repentant enough and so then I end up relying on my own strength to avoid sin. And so then I weaken, loose sight of God, and give in more and more. It casues me to rely on my own human frailty and thinking "man I'm so bad, I can never do it, whats the point in trying anymore" instead of submiting to God's grace and finding strength in him and thinking "Wow, God considers me rightious through what Jesus did? Now I have something to live up too, with his help I can do better and walk in forgiveness and freedom!"
I noticed this recently, because Inwas in a terrible, terrible cycle of sin recently and I was just praying to God begging him to turn my heart back to him because I no strength or will in myself to stop ir resist it anymore. And he answered and drew me back to him, not with harsh condemnation, but with gentle grace and forgiveness, showing his love for me. And then for a while I was being able to do a lot better. I still mesed up a few times over the next few weeks, but I was able to pick myself back up in his strength and keep going. But then I listened to an audio drama that was reallt scary about people going to hell and stuff, and it made me start questioning my salvation and made me fearful and guilty, and now the past several days I have been spiraling into worse and worse sin cycles again. Is that a coincidence? Idk, it doesnt seem like it.
I was just falling into sin very baddly an hour ago, for hours, and feeling helpless and blocking it out of my mind that I could go worship God instead because it would be disingenuine to do so right after sinning so much. But I watched this video and now I feel peace again and feel like I don't want to sin anymore, I feel more free in christ again, my spirit can breath again now, no long so overwhelemed by the smothering desires of my flesh.
tl:dr I also heard some testimonies that they overcame their major sins just by fully resting on God's hand and seeing His grace and love
You are mistaking lordship salvation with salvation by works
Why would acknowledging the supremacy of Christ stress you?
We are saved by our RELATIONSHIP with Christ
Not by repeating the sinners prayer in Sunday school
Not by our good deeds outweighing the bad
That's what Lordship Salvation means
Love your videos. Yes this teaching definitely caused me anxiety from my youth thru early adulthood. And all these Christians suggesting that you're saved as long as you dont "willfully sin"... that makes zero sense because when you think about it which sin wouldnt be considered willful? Did anyone hold a gun to your head? Did the "devil make you do it?" Fact is ALL sin is a willful act. We all have the choice to do it or not. Its never just an "accident" or "accidental sin". Folks will use the verse in Hebrews 10:26 out of context by trying to say continued "willful sin, Jesus's sacrifice will no longer work". But that verse isnt talking about Christians that struggle with sin, its talking about Jewish folks the believe in Jesus but havent yet acted on their faith because of their traditions so they continune in animal sacrifices and burnt offerings AFTER having received the knowledge of Jesus being the ultimate final sacrifice. So the writer tells them there no longer remains a sacrifice for them, or them living their Jewish customs wont save them going further. Anyhow. Keep up the great work!
You should do a whole video of Satanic panic era and how it shows up today
Great video! Very edifying! God bless brother
I agree with the law and gospel style for showing how we are sinners and seeing Jesus’s goodness to save us but I disagree with your perspective on repentance because you said it was a change in mindset. I think it is to realize how are sins were wrong and move away from them and continually move away from sin Ray Comfort portrays this really well. Cheers!
Get ready to weep with this one
Ray Comfort: Just Witnessing
Is a great video to watch on this.
I'd like to see a follow-up video on this, especially regarding the Hebrews warning verses, because woooooow does that get a lot of anxious Christians spiraling without guidance.
This was great, thanks.
As a Baptist, I can confirm that I sometimes heard lordship salvation stuff and my faith was temporarily damaged by it. However, the preacher that helped me understand assurance (just resting in Christ's finished work) was also a very strict fundamental Baptist, so the denomination as a whole is a mixed bag.
what do you think of Matthew W Bates books like Salvation by Allegiance Alone?
A bigger issue is that this Lordship salvation vs free grace debate has become a sort of a caricature of predestination vs personal choice debate, and people incorrectly equate calvinism with lordship, even though the law-gospel distinction is actually made in free grace.
EVERYTHING AND IT'S ENTIRE EXISTENCE.
zoomer, as catholic i kinda wanted to ask what do you think of miraculus sights and pilgrimages? i mean like sights like jasna gora monostary in poland or sanctuary of our lady of guadelupe
Thank you Redeemed Zoomer. I've come across a whole lot of angry people on the internet calling everybody and their mother heretics who are damning people to hell in their own vile judgement just because they teach a lordship salvation, or something that sounds like it. I can agree with this view to a degree, but not fully. I still enjoy listening to these teachers who allegedly teach lordship salvation, and I'm honestly upset with the whole christian side of internet over this whole thing. Following Christ has never been harder in a time where everybody is labeled a heretic for no reason.
The word heretic is losing its meaning.
I really don't know where this criticism comes from. Lordship salvation just teaches that true faith is a faith that acknowledges Jesus as Lord, and that true faith will always result in sanctification. Nobody, as far as I am aware, says that anybody struggling with addiction is not saved, nobody says that our salvation rests on anything but God's grace alone in Jesus alone by faith alone. It is quite literally just orthodox christian soteriology. We emphasize the lordship of Christ because much of modern day "christianity" teaches that all you have to do is believe, then you can do whatever you want and be fine, which is anti biblical.
Theosis = Lordship Salvation
?
I agree.
Christian leaders misrepresenting Lordship Salvation
Then attacking it as heresy
All I get out of their tilting at windmills
Is that they lack critical thinking skills
And they lose credibility FAST 🇨🇦
I love Paul Washer and I'll defend him on this one: I think the fact to BE SAVED by "lordship salvation" is wrong, but in Paul Washer's case he says you might not be saved if you don't bear fruit, you should ask yourself why you're not bearing fruit. The fruit is not what saves you, but the outflow of genuine faith. I think this is consistent with Paul Washer's teachings because nobody is strong enough to make Jesus the Lord of their lives on their own strength. That's only for someone with unspeakable might, namely our savior and king Jesus.
I'm a big Washer fan, and I think he's pretty clear about salvation/fruit distinction. He does talk a lot to a Matthew 7:21-23 type crowd so his comments about a majority of the room or nation going to hell is true because not many people actually do have faith in Christ. A lot of people point to their works, or lack of evil, and thus don't have true faith. But true faith changes a man or woman. So for your concern about the boring and riveting testimony isn't necessarily a dichotomy that Paul Washer brings up because a boring testimony person should be bearing fruit if they have faith. I'm halfway between the two and if I weren't bearing fruit then that's a problem. If I do bear fruit I should be seeking to bear fruit 30 fold, 60 fold, and even 100 fold because that's the power of God in a man's life, the glorious gospel!
I hope that defended his teaching in an adequate and biblical way. But more than that I hope to have glorified God in some way.
It’d be a shame to leave the video at this and not recognize the change that’s taken place. Years after Washer’s “shocking youth message” he brought up some errors in the message. There’s old-old (unsaved) Washer, old Washer (born-again, Lordship salvation teaching), and present Washer. He has surrounded himself with good teachers including Reformed/Presbyterians and he has changed a lot.
He tells a story of a church that invited him to preach and he presented a simple Gospel message. Afterwards some people asked him “where was the [sauce]?” (i.e. yell at us to repent). And he said that’s not what this congregation needed. They needed to know the love of God.
Any chance you could give us a video or article title? I haven’t been able to find such a thing, though the video “Don’t expect a perfect repentance” comes close
I think you are forgetting about spiritual baptism which believing and accepting the gospel does, where we are then born in spirit. This is the baptism that begins the healing, the water baptism is more symbolic for others and to show your support for a certain church or belief, like when Jesus was baptized by John.
I think you have a point on many messages preaching it for the wrong reason but again as you stated there are preachers who do preach it correctly. I believe Lordship Salvation, when taught correctly will not led you to a guilt and false assurance but it will remind you of who you are and where you are in Christ. I agree that being born again isn’t a dramatic experience too because mine wasn’t dramatic haha. I myself struggled with that guilt and landed on its only faith that truly determines our assurance.
So in conclusion, I think the video brought some good points but it also didn’t bring up the true intentions of Lordship Salvation. And also at the beginning you said you could offer an alternative, but I didn’t hear one anywhere in the video. If you’re alternative is the part where you say someone is saved because they worry of their salvation that’s kinda a terrible situation because that can led someone into a path a fighting Christ instead of fighting for Christ.
i loved paul washer when i was a super young christian and lordship salvation made me leave the faith until about 5 years ago when i got saved again and started studying theology super hard
if any of you could point out how im wrong that would be wonderful because i would rather hold the correct view but right now i believe have the correct view. i developed this view reading the Bible myself. i dont see whats false about this doctrine.
"If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9-10
"and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" Hebrews 5:9
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left" Hebrews 10:26
My childhood in a nutshell :(
Nothing like being taught that works can affect your salvation and that there aren't even any sacraments to ease your conscience amirite? 😄 😰
I have OCD and Lordship salvation hurts my faith because it makes me feel I’ll never become “perfect” and I’ll never be worthy of God. For example I enjoy the sin of lust/fornication therefore if I enjoy it it means I’m not saved since I know it’s wrong and still do it even tho God literally commands against it meaning I put sin over God
I have OCD and I believe Lordship salvation is fundamental to livings as a christian. Jesus doesn't aspect of you to be perfect like "never sinning again", but I believe He wants from us to not wilfully sin and if you continue wilfully sinning you are rightly worrying about your relationship with the Lord.
Dude, if you live in lust/fornication aka you continue commiting the same sin again and again wilfully (I don't know if it's even possible to lust/fornicate unwilfully), I don't know how you are any different from the demons. The demons also believe in a few truth about Jesus, but the point is that they do not follow Him, but rebel.
Continuing in wilfull sin will result in falling away from the faith, or then the warnings of Jesus, Paul, Peter and the others would be pointless.
@@dimitartodorov4826 you’re right it’s definitely wrong but horniness gets the best of you (still not an excuse). And what makes me different from demons is I don’t serve satan. I hate him. Lordship salvation isn’t saying you should repent from sin, but it’s impossible to follow Jesus perfectly despite our best efforts. For example, when the rich man told Jesus he obeyed all his commandments yet refused to give away all but his bare necessities to the poor
@@dimitartodorov4826 also lust is a mindset. Not just an action. So while you might restrain yourself from acting upon it,the thought and desire is still there (and it’s still a sin)
Baptist here. Lordship salvation isn't about performance. It's about a one time decision to abandon everything over to Christ and follow Him (your sin, ideas, possessions, reservations, etc.). Turning to Christ is like selling your car to someone. You sign the papers and it's now theirs. They can then decide to lend you the car and let you use it to drive to work, but it's still their car. So it is with my life now that I belong to Christ.
@@dimitartodorov4826 Absolutely
Washer mever said anything about losing your salvation because of inability to let go of sin. The message is really just, if you're making an honest effort to let go of your sin and live better day by day, then maybe you should check whether your faith is genuine.
Doesn't 2 Cor 13:5-7 say "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates." Doesn't that go a bit against what you are saying?
Same thought
He says he is in favor of that later on.
Tbh the letter of 2 Cor is Paul trying to address the church after false “super apostles” infiltrated the church and lead them astray. Paul is saying that to encourage them to make sure they are following Paul’s gospel not the false teachings of the heretics.
As far as the whole assurance of salvation thing goes, I don't think baptism is a very good metric. I agree that submission based Lordship Salvation can be tricky at the very least, but saying that baptism saves (even as long as you don't reject it) sets the bar way too low and is very misleading to potential Christians.
First off, the Bible DOES give ways we can be assured of our salvation: faith (Hebrews 10:22), service [referring to deacons] (1 Timothy 3:13), and... dun dun duuun: works! (1 John 2:3-6) That's right! Salvation certainly doesn't come by works but the Bible is very clear that our works provide evidence of our salvation. The passage: "If you love me, you will keep and obey my commandments" (John 14:15 AMP) isn't an instruction to obey the law, it's saying that obeying God's commandments is a natural result of loving Him.
Onto baptism, I don't believe that it has any saving power or that God works through baptism to save. Even some of the more compelling scriptures for this line of thinking like Mark 16:16 and 1 Peter 3:21 always take the emphasis off baptism itself and proclaims the power of grace, faith, and belief. So I believe saying "Baptism saves. Period." is a misleading interpretation of the Bible. It makes people think that if they just get baptized then they're 'in'. Not to mention the fact that if baptism does save, then it's a work that aids in salvation and well... you know. Even if I were to concede that baptism has saving power in some sense, you would still admit that it's possible for one to be saved and not baptized as well as baptized yet not saved. That doesn't sound very consistent let alone assuring.
13:20 about lordship salvation
I wonder what Paul(?) meant when he urges us to pray for those who "sin that does not cause death"
Can you provide a verse, I’d like to read it.
@@yochelu8595 I finally found it. John said it. 1 John 5:16.
@@retrictumrectus1010 northland bible baptist church 1 john 5 16-17 around the 23.35 minute mark for reference. I trust him as a great, pastor who backs almost everything up with scripture.
It seems that there are sins that this is either talking about a saved person living his life in direct rebellion to God, and that at a certain point God can literally end their life because of it. And it would be futile for a brother in Christ to pray for them.
@@yochelu8595 Thanks.
I cannot totally accept his interpretation but I am still open to it. But I won't dwell too much into it.
According to the pastor (if I interpreted it correctly), Christians can stumble and die like Ananias but still goes straight to heaven. His interpretation of the verse attacks Lordship Salvation at its core, and also Calvinism at the same time😆.
@@retrictumrectus1010 😂no problem brotha, always good to dig a little deeper.
This kind of sounds like Ray Comfort.
Catholics don’t believe is you sin “too much” you lose salvation. It’s not the amount of sin, but the type of sin. Mortal sins are very serious and intentional, and sever your relationship with God, unless/until you repent. But to be clear, these are very serious sins, and must be intentional…you cannot accidentally fall into mortal sin. This is biblical:
”And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’ ”“
Mark 10:17-19
”Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.“
Galatians 5:19-21
”Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.“
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Thief on the cross wasn’t baptized, are you saying without water Baptism you’re not saved?
Lordship salvation mixes justification with sanctification
No it doesn’t, you are confused on what lordship salvation is.
@@kohlkravat460 it 100% does
4:34 protestant salvation
I struggle to see how this is not heresy. Isn’t redefining faith as something else essentially the same as changing the Gospel? And everyone who preaches a false gospel is accursed. Anathema.
believing the gosple personal of 1.cor 15, to get saved :: its a free gift & believign the gospel, is to rely o nchrist finished work along, god HAS(happened) reconled the world unto himself, not imputhing their sins :: god recordi s,that he gave us enternal life in jesus christ && you part is it, to believe it & trust christ as saviour
Repentance is coming to the realization that a persons actions, words and/or thoughts are sinful. Now that they realize they have sinned, what are they going to do with that "pile of dirt" in their lives?
They could 1) Hide it 2) Ignore it 3) Place that pile at the feet of Jesus Christ and tell Him, "I can't clean this mess up. I'm giving it to you because I'm trusting in You alone to take it away." Furthermore, "I'm trusting You so much, that I'm not going to put my hands back on the pile of dirt again, even if I think you are not cleaning it up correctly."
It's one thing to present our sin before Christ and entirely another to come into agreement with trusting Him on how He wants to deal with cleaning up/removing that sin.
A great follow-up to the above would be to obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ that was preached by Paul and the other early disciples.
What did the hearers of that Gospel do?
1) They believed it after hearing it.
2) The repented as shown above.
3) They got baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins.
4) They received the Promise of the Father - The Baptism of the Holy Ghost.
Several instances of this pattern occurring in scripture are listed below.
The question I would ask is, "Why have we strayed from this pattern?" We should follow the bible pattern in order to get bible results.
"Believing" is the gateway to "Obeying" the TRUE GOSPEL. However, believing in and of itself is not a complete response to the entire GOSPEL.
Jesus said "BELIEVE", yes that is true. But Jesus further expounds "BELIEVE AS THE SCRIPTURES CONTINUE TO SAY" (John 7:38)
Jesus instructed His disciples to baptize. He didn't speak this directive just to give them "busy" work. In the scriptures below, we see example after example after example of what the listeners DID after Hearing and Obeying the True Gospel. There is a pattern here.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Why mention baptism in the scripture if baptism is irrelevant? Because it is relevant.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Again, The disciples of Jesus Christ baptized.
Joh 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
Peter is preaching the Gospel. He doesn't say, "for the few of you that feel the need to get baptized, go for it!" No, he says, "Be baptized every one of you..."
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Those that gladly received the Gospel that Peter preached got baptized. Those who rejected the Gospel he preached, didn't.
Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:
Philip is preaching the same Gospel. As a result, the people believed and as a result of that belief, they got baptized.
Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Simon heard the Gospel. He believed and as a result, he got baptized.
Acts 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Philip preached the Gospel to a eunuch. As a result, the eunuch does not say, "I believe in Jesus" and then go on his way. Instead, he wants to get baptized as soon as possible.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Peter preaches the Gospel. As the people heard, the Holy Ghost descended and filled them. Afterwards, Peter instructs them to get baptized in the Name of The Lord and is alluding that no man should get in the way of that process. He did not say, "It's optional" (Acts 10:37-48)
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Paul and Silas preach to the keeper of the prison. Paul says, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." but he does not stop there. He preached the word of the Lord and as a result, the keeper of the prison and his household were baptized.
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Another instance where people heard the Gospel. They believed and as a result, those who believed were baptized.
Act 18:8 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
In Acts 19:1-9, Paul is asking a "believer" if they have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost since they believed. They haven't heard about the Holy Ghost. So what does Paul start asking about? He asked how they were baptized. They had been baptized according to John's baptism of repentance.
After Paul explained the gospel more clearly (since Jesus had since risen), they got Re-baptized. But this time, it was in the Name of The Lord. Because they repented and got baptized in the name of the Lord, God was obligated to baptize them in the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38), because it is His Promise (Acts 2:39)
If you read further in Acts 19:8-9, you will see that certain people BELIEVED NOT and started speaking evil of the gospel that Paul preached.
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
The response to the TRUE GOSPEL includes:
1) Repentance (acknowledging and turning away from sin) and
2) Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ and as a result, that individual shall
3) Receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus tells what happens when we "BELIEVE AS THE SCRIPTURES CONTINUE TO SAY"
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given ; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Which Gospel of Jesus Christ will you believe? The one that the early disciples of Jesus preached as documented in the Bible? Or the modified/simplified/modernized version that would be considered "Another gospel" by Paul.
Paul says the person that preaches "Another gospel" is accursed.
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Do yourself a HUGE favor. Don't take reckless chances with your salvation. OBEY the TRUE GOSPEL.
Acts 2:38 clearly tells us that if we will 1) repent of our sin and 2) get water baptized in the name of Jesus, 3) then God is OBLIGATED to baptize us with the Holy Spirit. Why? Because Acts 2:39 goes on to say that this promise is for every single one of us!
So, the question is simple: Have we done steps 1 and 2 so that God can perform step 3 in our lives?
Well i used to believe what you just said but further reading of scripture. Youll read some sins lead to death and others dont. We must absolutely renouce sins that lead to death. Although you wont be perfect you can still be on the path that leads to life. Also jesus was the atonement of our sins. But he cannot make us wash ourselves like the priests in the old testament were commanded to do. But as new testament priests its the will of the father to be sanctified. You must renounce all sins that lead to death or perish. The changing of the mind causes us to change our actions. And On the day of judgement we will be judged according to what weve done.
if you were judged by your works, you would perish. your only hope is to be judged by Christ's works. You will be rewarded for your good works, yes, but only provided that you are first judged by Christ's life. I agree with most else what you said, faith without works isnt real faith, it's dead as the scripture says
Sins that don't lead to death are sins that we confess and repent from.
Inaccurate Paul Washer impression, not nearly enough vibration in your voice
sounded too southern. Too much like "smily joel"
You stole my name! >:>(
What does it mean to be a "self-deceived" Christian?
I don't know what you mean by baptism saves... I assume you don't mean in a salvation sense.
I have other videos on that
@@redeemedzoomer6053 You put one about that up today 😂
Good video, should have also addressed the semi-pelagienism that’s creeped into independent fundamentalist Baptist circles. Also I’m gonna have to request you don’t label Catholics as “Roman Catholics” as it was originally coined as an insult. It’s like if we called you guys western schismatic traitors or something.
10:20 john calvin baptism
Lordship salvation is heresy and those that believe it are unsaved. You cant add your works to the cross and make it into heaven.
Honestly I have been reading the bible for 40 years, I am a baptist. I have read the bible cover to cover. It seems Jesus preached lordship salvation and Paul taught free grace salvation. I am going to act like its lordship and hope that its free grace. Easy believeism is false in my opinion, (even the demons believe in Jesus and shudder. It has to be action. We are not saved except through free grace but we can fall away from our salvation just like the parable of the seeds, the parable or the virgins trimming their wicks and other places.
Pre-destination is wrong, cus you end up saying God only loves certain people arbitrarily, and not everyone. Catholicism is the truth.
Algo comment
I think GotQuestions does a really good job at describing what Lordship Salvation is, and I think it does a good job at explaining why it is not works based: ruclips.net/video/BiomUqv_SxU/видео.html
Got Questions is garbage
@@radarashwood5397
"Got Questions is garbage"
How so? What makes it garbage?
I don't know if you ever got around to referencing scripture as an authority for your position, because your rambling overwhelmed me and I bailed at about 5 minutes.
Colossians 1:21-23 is one of many passages that dismiss "easy believism" & reaffirm we are saved by our RELATIONSHIP with Christ, not by saying the sinner's prayer 40 years ago. 🇨🇦
ruclips.net/video/M9ZofY-BDiQ/видео.htmlsi=LTZEFEGm3Vriz7JV
7:29 spectrum conservative baptists
This is kind of a jumbled mess of thoughts, in the end I don't think you really said anything at all
Easy believism is worse than lordship salvation
The music is distracting and annoying and makes it difficult to listen to.
Good video.