Regarding how scary dying alone is and how the narrative portrays that: There's something about *Jinx and Vander* and *Jayce and Viktor* going off into the *light or darkness* in *pairs* with someone they *love* , making it *easier* and less scary for the suicidal characters to be held into oblivion. If Jinx could go knowing she was a good sister, Jayce and Viktor could go knowing they became who they needed to be. In the pursuit of great, they "failed to do good," but here they did good by their city and by each other. Who Jinx is is fundamentally right, and there is *beauty in imperfections* . Jinx and Viktor both started the episode unkillable. And ostensibly unreachable, disconnected from their loved ones. Personified chaos doomed to dreamless solitude. But then they weren't. That happened a lot, actually; Jayce was lost to the Arcane, then he came back. Vi was lost in the pits, but she came back-- Out of commitment or connection to someone. So it makes sense everyone would be there for each other in the end. Any of them could have died alone, and had felt alone for so long, but they were *inextricably bound by love* . Chosen, known, seen. I think the narrative parallels are intentional, handling the end with care and warmth. Holding on while it all goes away on either side of the coin. It's the same picture, always has been.
I think they don't show the last part because "don't let me go" doesn't fit with Vi having to let go Jinx. Vi has to believe Jinx died, so we get this from her POV, she has to move on for Jinx to move on too
I mean the song is in the show and that part is. Like I've heard it echo in the background and I definitely heard the line don't let me go. So ya know.
To me, the pink streak is the least compelling argument for Jinx's fate. Cait having a piece of the grenade while looking at the schematics for the Hexgate vents is the most compelling argument for Jinx's fate.
I completely agree. It's something that's very deliberately in the story for a reason. You don't put those doubts in your audience to just say, nope she's dead. If the intent was that shes dead would not reference the chance of escape in the way they did. Especially in a work of animation.
If this was real life I’d agree, but since this is animated I think the pink streak is important and compelling, because if there was no reason for the pink streak, they wouldn’t put it in there. Since it’s there it almost 100% means something, and the most probable meaning is her escaping
Personal opinion for 7:20, I don't think that's Jinx's memory. In the scene, Jinx is already asleep. The character who is always in shot, moving about the room, and finally blowing out the candle is Vander. He is the one having his one last beautiful moment with his children before he goes.
You're so right, I think this is something a lot of people have overlooked, me included, that is not really a Jinx/Powder scene but a Vander one. His actions are the ones directing the scene, the focus, the emotions. Besides, why would it symbolize Jinx/Powder death if both her and Vi are asleep? This makes more sense as Vander's soul finally resting and saying goodbye to his daughters.
Omg this would also bolster the idea that Vander played some part in helping Jinx live through the explosion, even if he didn’t move to save her. He could stay dead by curling around her to protect her with his “ascended” body, half awake for the last time. 😭
Okay, but I feel like that would undermine the whole Vander's identity being truly gone thing. Maybe it's not the memory of either character? Again it does fit with the lyrics of the song at that moment.
I think you missed on the soundtrack argument. The lyrics of the song ends in the first verse as "please let me go". But in the second verse the lyrics change, the last lyrics of the song are "Don't let me go." The song is not expressing acceptance of death, it's depicting a cycle of pushing people away when you need help the most.
We never hear the optimistic verse in the show. I wish they used it in the end credits instead of nothing. The verse we hear is still Suicide Jinx and "Please let me go" when we're looking down the shaft.
@jenmiranda13 I don't think the metaphor is meant to be that direct. In relation to Jinx I think it's expressing her feelings that all she wants is the people loves (vi, vander, ekko, silco) to care for her and be there for her. But she knows that she always hurts the people around her so she pushes them away, when she partially recognizes that it's really only the people she loves that gives her anything to live for. The lyrics are kinda conflicting because her feelings are in conflict.
I personally think it would be better if she lived, but left and completely dropped the identity of jinx AND powder. She does die to everyone, but she literally makes something new. It doesn’t undermine it because she really does break the cycle, leave everything behind, and get the metaphorical death she wanted, while beginning again and forging a new path. I would love to see her in a future show as some random side character, maybe an engineer or artist on the street living a casual life, and not doing anything important. Maybe even helping some kids out in an inventor’s competition. Giving her an arc similar to himerdinger. At least that’s my head cannon, and what I think is best for the story.
I agree. Personally I head cannon that she goes back to calling herself Powder but without the baggage attached to it (mainly because I can't come up with a third name and Powder is the more neutral one, just from the word itself). I also think Ekko is the only person from her old life she could reconnect with without slipping back into old roles. Maybe she could even have a relationship with Vi again at some point, but that would need a lot of time, she'd have to have a stable new identity by then
@@alexelion7084 She quite literally re-aligns with powder when she gets on that airship. So ya Jinx did die no matter how you want to think about it. But Powder lived on, breaking the cycle. 10/10 writing.
"I would love to see her in a future show" ... yeah, that is why people went looking for evidence that she might be alive 🙂. Most people that WANT her to be alive are commenting with an entire list of reasons that she MUST be alive, even though that list only exists because people went looking for interpretations that match what they want to be true. There is a similar list of reasons she might actually be dead, but if you don't want to believe that to be true, you'll likely ignore those reasons. The main question for me was the same as what Schnee is telling: what works best for the story ? I haven't seen a single person reacting to the last episode for the first time (and no prior knowledge) that didn't think she was dead at the end. Maybe there's a reason (=the story) most people thought that at the end ...
I think Jinx can be alive without the sacrifice itself being undermined; the series has always been careful in how it handles representation imo, especially with grief and trauma. I do not think they’d take all that care in representation only to have the mentally ill character kill herself, regardless of weather her death is a sacrifice or not. I think Jinx the IDENTITY died, not Jinx the character. If jinx died, the message essentially becomes “Shes TOO broken, she has to die” but if she lives, makes something new, there’s room for her to heal. While it is sad that she has to heal away from her loved ones, Zaun and Piltover are too connected to everything, she has to walk away.
Wether Jinx throws her life away or sacrifices it meaningfully DOES make a difference though. Also it exemplifies that not wanting to live is something you can't just talk someone out of in one moment and then have it be good forever. It is a question that keeps coming back up again and again as long as there is reasons to. Which is also realistic and good representation.
Agreed. Her dying undermines her entire character imo and doesn't make sense with where s2 takes her character. We see her happy, for a bit she's in a better place than Vi. Why show us that she has the capacity to be happy, then kill it in a way that's not directly Jinx's fault if the only way for her story to conclude is her death?
Agreed. This builds on both the "build something new" and "breaking the cycle" motifs introduced in S2. It's also a way for the writers to get around her "main character invulnerability" from being popular irl.
@@gewreid5946yes but as we’ll see in his come play video. Jinx rallied the undercity, she would have seen offscreen that her statement to Vi is wrong and that “there is a good version of her.” Was incorrect because she does good for her people as they have someone to rally behind. We saw in Stillwater what that effect being seen as a “big fat hero” had on her. so yes Ekko talking to her about an AU wouldn’t make her survive. Her seeing her city rally behind her (which we have heavy evidence of), waiting for her smoke bombs to launch the attack. The firelights her old enemies wearing her spray paint in support and accepting her into their group. That would have done something and I think her dying cheapens that more than her dying cheapens her saving Vi. Her whole intro is waving the revolutionary flag at the start of each episode. This is the fundamental issue with S2 a lot of major character moments happen offscreen. This included.
Yup, Jinx's character arc in S2 is one of self-discovery: she needs to understand who she is. The end of S1 we see her adopting the identity of Jinx definitely, but S2 events make her question that. The Stillwater prisoner breakout happens for selfish "Jinx" purposes - she's really trying to save Isha - and the "big fat hero" is 100% said in jest, but the prisoners in silence touching her show her something else: she can be Jinx _and_ be a big fat hero. They accept her for who she is in her entirety, same as Isha does and, later on, Ekko and Vi. That's the central point of her jail cell monologue-conversation with her projected Silco, a figment of her own internal dialog: Jinx as an evil person is a prison of her own creation, it's something she (and the circumstances surrounding her) imposes on herself. She doesn't need to be that. But for her to be free of that prison, she has to walk away, because these circumstances will keep expecting her to be _that_ Jinx.
I personally prefer her staying alive from the perspective of what Ekko taught her. It is still a powerful message of starting something new and is tragic in its own way since it comes with the pain of leaving behind everything you loved.
I agree, also Jinx walking away has been pitched multiple times as well. The biggest tragedy of walking away from loved ones because it doesn't work out is simply knowing it doesn't work out. Even if you love them and want to be near them. It just turns into fights and danger to yourself. You have to let go and walk away and take the knowledge with you that you tried everything and nothing worked. It's an acceptance of something definite.
My headcanon is that Ekko also told her about AU Powder and that she realizes there IS a good version of her out there. Giving her a reason to keep living.
@@celloishsugoithis is actually canon! In a q&a livestream with Christian Linke he confirms Ekko told her abt the alternative universe and that there is a good version of herself that is attainable
100% agree. Ekko getting to talk with her probably helped he deal with a lot and allowed her to shift the perspective of needing to die.. to just needing to walk away.
considering the context that the conversations with the various characters she has over the course of episodes 6, 8, and 9 it's just as viable to say that sacrificing herself is a means of building a new life for Vi (the person she cares about) with Caitlin. Ekko says at the beginning of episode 9 (paraphrasing) "You can build something new, something for the people you care about".
"Even when we are worlds apart.." This quote from Jinx is what clued me in on why she would be alive. I doubt she needed to remind Vi of their circumstances while confronting Vander - she knew exactly what to say to her, as if everything was already planned in this finale. (Not the self sacrificing but what Jinx plan to do onwards, which was leaving Vi so she could live her life without the burden of Powder/Jinx)
I disagree. I think Jinx living makes the story significantly better because it fits her arc much more. Here’s why: - Ep7 shows us a possible version of healthy Powder. And it’s not like AU Powder didn’t have hardship in her life, she lost her sister, arguably at her own hands. But we see that it is possible for Jinx/Powder to come to terms with the demons of the past. Jinx dying in the OG universe would drain all meaning from that, and instead tell a story of misery, where it is possible to be irredeemable/broken to the point where death is the only answer. - To the same point, AU Powder’s conflict revolves around “filling her own cup”, not just other’s. So Jinx choosing to sacrifice herself for Vi’s happiness also leaves this arc unresolved. - I would also argue, that when Ekko convinced Jinx to “build something new”, she didn’t take it as “lay your life down to do it”. After all, she was already trying to kill herself for that _exact_ reason - to let Vi and Caitlyn be happy together. So her doing the same thing in a different form invalidates Ekko’s scene as well. - The song “Wasteland” that plays during Jinx suicide scenes, only starts with “Please let me go”. Give it a full listen, it ends with: “I’m not ready to face it Don’t go saying goodbye There’s a beauty in changes And I wanna try *Don’t* let me go” Finally, I will say, there’s nothing that says that Jinx’s story *has* to be a tragedy. If anything, tragedy makes it too simple, too straightforward. For me, Arcane is not a story about tragic fate of Jinx & Vi or Piltover & Zaun, at least not the second season. It is a story of second chances and of sacrifice that it takes get them - the impossibility to “pretend like it’s the first time”. Every character gives up something to move forward: Caitlyn her vision (in both senses of the word), Victor his evolution, Jayce his scientific progress, Heimerdinger his fears, Ekko his chance for “what could have been”. As for Jinx, she has to sacrifice her past to move on. But her death would rob her of a second chance, it’s a sacrifice without a sacrifice. Sacrifice is a painful but beautiful answer to the question “how do I live on?”, but sacrificing her life defeats the point.
One thing I'd like to add on what you said, is that this story is not only about giving Jinx control over her own death, it's also about giving her opportunities to start healing from her trauma. Killing Silco was a try, to remove this figure that kept the ptsd so alive, but failed because she was too attached to him and it led her to depression. Having Isha was another try, to offer something positive in her life, but failed because influencing another person while having not dealt with your own trauma only leads to perpetuating you own self-destructive persona in them. And finally, to get away before the explosion is potentially the last and best try : if you want to heal from your trauma, you first need to get away from everything that reminds you of it - Piltover, Zaun, and Vi. Tldr : - She dies = she can finally get the perfect death that would fit with her - She lives (and gets away from this place and from Vi) = she can finally start to heal her trauma
"The cycle ends only when you find the will to walk away" "its never too late to build something new" silcos speech is about how identities constrain and imprison my take - Jinx (the identity) is dead. Jinx the person will become someone new, away from Vi and Ekko and Piltover and Zaun. This imo fulfills both the idea of the death arc and the life arc.
This is obviously it. I dont know how this guy thinks after seeing jinx turn to suicide already think that she genuinely killed herself at the end rather than make an effort to escape her identity and labels and reinvent herself. Its honestly pretty obvious..
I totally agree. Her deciding not to kill herself is the biggest arc. It reinforces the inclusion of all the hints we got that she is alive and why she is as well. Plus, Jinx is such a money-printer for RIOT they can't kill her just as they start to expand the animation universe. The only real continuation of her story is in a new place and a new life. Timebomb expansion could happen, but there's only like 1 episode worth of stuff to cover without dragging it out. Same with Ekko/Jinx edited scenes between suicide and airship entrance in episode 9.
personally I hate the "suicidal person manages to kill themselves by dying as a hero" trope so much that I can't accept that Jinx is dead. I believe she broke the cycle by walking away and that she is currently travelling all of Runeterra, finally breaking free of all the roles the people around her have placed onto her (sister, daughter, symbol, monster etc.) to finally just live for herself for once before she eventually returns to Zaun in a few years to (maybe) reconnect with Vi.
@@ジハ-u5k uh did you miss that she is suicidal and tried to kill herself several times before?? She still managed to kill herself, just via saving someone else. That is still a suicidal Jinx dying by blowing herself up, just with Warwick this time.
@@marbleb33s when she tried to kill herself it was so that she didn't have the strength to go on. When Ekko beat her up on the bridge when Isha died those were just such strong moments that forced her to do it but! when she tried to blow herself up Ekko stopped her and said a sentence to which she reacted so there it means that she let herself be told she has a point to go on it's Ekko
Yeah, that trope can be kinda harmful if taken the wrong way by a viewer. Like, "oh yeah they ended up doing the thing the story and characters have been telling them not to do BUT now it isn't selfish and meaningless" BRO WHAT?? That's awful! Especially because Jinx thought the only way to break the cycle of violence was to die, only for the story to say "NO, don't do it! you can restart! Build something good!" And then have her kill herself to break the cycle anyway?? It doesn't make sense to me. Jinx's story arc of breaking the cycle resonated with me (and probably many more) And while either way she did break the cycle. One way is just so much more depressing and cynical. I cried like a baby when Jinx "died" but I was also really upset and I hated the ending until I noticed the hints that she may be alive. Although I think it's fine for it to remain ambiguous, you believe what you want for your own reasons.
I was pretty convinced she was dead until I rewatched the final arc, and her interaction with Silco in the jail tipped me over to believing she's alive. He says "I thought I could break free by eliminating those I deemed my jailors" - Jinx is her own jailor. She doesn't believe she can change her story , she's always destined to be a 'jinx'. (At least that's my take on her). Jinx killing herself, is her eliminating her jailors. However he follows that with "But, Jinx... I think the cycle only ends when you find the will to walk away" - Which is what she does. She lives, and walks away from Piltover, Zaun, and everything she has there, on the airship that she said she was going to ride on. I've not seen anyone else notice or mention this, so I thought I'd throw it out there as my 2 cents on the matter. This combined with the other evidence that people have mentioned of her being alive convinced me. Do I think we'll see her again? Personally no. But I do believe she lived.
Ye that’s what I’ve been saying, just feels so poetic that Jinx finally breaks the cycle of pain AND gets to live on in (hopefully) less/no pain so that it is truly broken. Her, Ekko and Isha r gonna love that trip to disneyland
she is 100% alive and writers basically confirmed this when they said that " well we dont know if Jinx is dead or alive" ...I think that was the whole point , they wanted to leave both options open, if you wanted her to die then she could just as easily be dead cause we never see her again but then we have enough clues that if you want her to be alive she can be alive aswell , new Jinx skin has voiceline where she says " oh you walked right past me in bilgewater" and honestly I can see Jinx going there , other than Zaun, Bilgewater is literally perfect place for her
@darklord4531 Jinx can't write her own story and never did, she can only write its ending. She chose how to die, she chose her ending. The scribbled message only reinforces by letting her write the ending. It was intentional and it isn't a message that says she lives, it's a 4th wall break by the writers calling out to this being *her* ending.
I personally believe that this symbolizes Jinx dying, but rebirth and going to do her own thing in a faraway life. (similar to how in your last video you talked about ekko telling her to build something new)
Agreed, and it is also a sacrifice in a way. Since she is leaving Ecko and Vi behind, and even if we didn't see it the writers did plan on Jinx and Ecko reconciling and sort of getting together. But Jinx knows Vi will never live her own life if she's around and there is no way for Vi to have both Cait and Jinx. Jinx also still has a lot of work to do to mentally and can't do that from prison, so it 's best to just walk away and start over somewhere else. It's not really a happy ending, just a chance to be happy later.
I personally think its better narratively for her to survive. She has been suicidal for most of the season, until Ekko saved her and gave her the tools to rebuild herself. She needs a clean cut from her previous life to achieve that, so faking her death makes the most sense.
This is one of those where I feel like I disagree with too many things. I don't think the story is better if she dies. If she lives, it hammers home Ekko's point of building something new even more. Jinx builds a new life and she can now do it somewhere she won't be affected by her old life. So it would also hammer home the: "Sometimes taking a leap forward means leaving a few things behind." The only way I can accept Jinx's death as a better story, is if you mean that her persona of Jinx died, and she left anything that made her Jinx behind in order to build a new life. While I also see that sleep and death is often connected. See Thanatos and Hypnos in Greek mythology - Death and Sleep as twin brothers. BUT! It is also important to note that death is not always as straight forward a symbol. Sometimes death is just the death of the status quo, and is therefore the sign of a new beginning. She may be able to rest now, but not because she's dead, but because she left behind a life of constant struggle, misery and loss. I realize that keeping her alive to use the character later is probably a big reason for corporations to do this. But if we see her just in the background, just vibing, thriving and being at ease. In other words: Resting. That would be a much better story than the overdone tired and, frankly, potentially dangerous trope of suicide idolisation.
I'd actually argue the soundtrack is indicating she survives. The lyrics portray her internal struggle with wanting to die, at the beginning it says "please let me go" and at the very end it says "don't let me go". Also at the end there is the lines "There's a beauty in changes, and I wanna try" also implying that Jinx is looking to change more than die towards the end. Obviously the whole scene where she "dies" is communicating quite strongly to the audience that she does die, but I interpret it as a metaphorical death. Just like Powder "died" and Jinx took over after she was adopted by Silko, I feel like this scene shows Jinx "dying" and maybe Powder coming back but I think much more something else, Powder and Jinx are left in the past, left in Piltover/Zaun and the new Jinx or whatever the name would be leaves that behind and embraces change as heard in the soundtrack and as seen when she supposedly flies away in the airship.
7:09 If you said previously that Jinx is a narrative, maybe death "falling asleep" is a narrative too. She is alive but she is putting the narrative of Jinx *and* Powder to death. She died but is letting the memory of the good in her life, the narrative of happiness, live through Vi. The point isn't living or dying but leaving her jail cell and freeing others from their jail cells. The heart of the story was the sisters and the heart of their story was moving forward. Not only for Jinx but Vi too. Building something new always meant letting the old fade or die. Let it exist in the past. Memory is a jail cell if there is no room for the future. Like how Vi is in jail but also in the jail of her mind because of Powder. She is finally leaving the mindset of her life as a narrative for others to write. Vi is being Violet finally. My words may sound jumbled but i hope i got my message across
In one of her season 2 interviews amanda overton said that right from the outset of writing arcane they had the first & last scene in their heads & it hasn't ever shifted. I can't imagine a meaningless airship just drifting off into the distance would have been their ideal ending! It surely has to mean something relevant & the only relevant thing it could be is a reference to powder's words in the opening scene of episode 1. Jinx lives!
The main reason I prefer Jinx surviving from a storytelling perspective is that her saving Vi by taking Warwick down with her felt really contrived already. Honestly I wasn't the biggest fan of Warwick surviving in general after he was used to "evolve" Viktor, or rather how the show used him after that point, because it didn't really add anything to his or the sister's character arcs. He was just their obstacle to overcome for the final battle. So Vi being unable to leave him to die there, while in character for her, already required so much convenient setup to arrive at that point. This lead to me not really feeling the weight of Jinx' sacrifice, she just bailed out her sister for a stupid mistake and paid with her live? After just gaining the conviction to keep living as well? The entire scene just didn't feel earned to me, so the subversion of Jinx surviving and actually leaving her past behind with one final gesture of goodwill towards Vi is way more satisfying in my eyes. Your idea of Warwick using his last strength to save her is also a cool idea, but I prefer the idea of Jinx actually wanting to live from the beginning.
That's exactly what my experience was after watching the scene. At first i was super disappointed at what I thought was a supper contrived ending. But a few moments later, I realized what had actually happened. I love tragedies, but Jinx's story in season 2 is not a tragedy. I think season 1 was the tragedy.
It's also her taking mercy on her adoptive father and killing him, as she knew Vi would never be able to do, which brings his arc to a close at the hands of Jinx. "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter," indeed. Silco and Vander both being finally killed by Jinx as she continues to decide her own journey is the perfect ending to their parallel stories. I also felt like it was narratively weird until I saw the pink streak and the airship. The entire message about learning from our mistakes and moving forward with hope in our futures (which was stated by many characters in many ways this season) would have rung hollow.
ngl suggesting that Jinx should have died because it would be the best narrative is a rare miss for you, Schnee. Jinx believing that she is destined to destroy everything and then die is not her story, it's the *lie* she believes and needs to unlearn. (Pretty sure "the lie the character believes" is something I got from you.) The fact that she keeps trying to die and failing at it is the pattern which proves that was never her destiny, just like being a jinx was a mindset placed on her by the psychologically abusive people in her life: Mylo, Vi, and Silco. Mylo hated her (insofar as a child can hate), Vi was careless with a child she knew was emotionally fragile, and Silco foisted his own trauma and internalized lies (which he managed to dispel in the alternate universe) onto her to suit his own ends. So many people keep trying to tell Jinx to live, despite her negative self-image. Vi apologized time after time, saying Jinx can rewrite her story, regardless of how much they hurt each other. Isha sacrificed herself not just to emulate Jinx but to ensure she survives, because *that's* the version of Jinx she knows, the one who saves people. Sevika pushed Jinx to shed her nihilism and embrace community. Caitlyn professed how fruitless hatred, and by extension self-hatred, are as a life style. Ekko went out of his way to convince her that there is always the potential to grow and change. The Silco who tells Jinx to break the cycle and walk away is a figment of her own mental illness, an in-universe unreliable narrator, not to be trusted. Jinx says "there's no good version of me," when Ekko and the audience literally know that's false. And the writers have said that the central theme of Arcane is the awakening of new power and possibilities in the world of Runeterra. "Woe is me, and now I die" is a terrible message to send, not just because it's irresponsible, or because it would be bad for the brand, but also because it runs contrary to that theme. Not only *did* Jinx live, it's *better* that she did.
Her dying just doesn't make sense considering she finally seemed to find the will to live, to build something new for someone. It's why she decided to help during the last fight. To kill a character as soon as they gain the will to live again seems awful even if they are a tragic character.
I personally wouldn’t say she gained the will to live. Yes, someone can pull you off the ledge, but you can still push yourself off of a balcony. What I’m trying to say is is that, Jinx’s sacrifice (whether dead or alive) still comes from a place where she doesn’t see her own value. Maybe if she’s alive, she’s looking for reasons to stay that way. Like look for meaning. But if she’s dead, it’s still because she wants to break the cycle. All of these options mean she gets to break the cycle. I’m not sure if that means she has some will to live. I think having the will to leave and breaking cycle aren’t necessarily the same thing.
@ritikamudabidri7680 Breaking the cycle through death is shown to be misunderstood by Jinx, the lesson here isn't that the only way to 'walk away' is through sacrifice. Even after Silco and Vander died that cycle continued. If Ekko's words didn't help Jinx regain the will to live why did she join the final fight? Her final act isn't because of low self worth but due to love for her sister. She saw that Vi was unable to let go of Vander to the point where it posed a risk to her life, and she took it upon herself to save her.
I'm usually a fan of your takes, but I think you dropped the ball on this one. Outside of a narrative where a character seeks redemption, there is no beauty to dying tragically as a hero. This is a hollow and overdone trope. Arcane's writers truly honor "tragedy" as something terrible to experience. They never glamorize it. Your take with Jinx sacrificing herself so that everyone can have a happy ending does the opposite; it glamorizes death in a way that feels so fundamentally far from how Arcane tells stories. Jinx wants to be a hero to the people she loves. We infer as much from her relationship with Isha, her reaction to the Zaunites thanking her, as well as her actions as Powder when she tried to save Vi and Vander. Despite her failings, heroism is in her nature. Now, we can argue that her final heroic deed is sacrificing herself for good so that her sister can live a happy life, but this is poor storytelling, and fundamentally misunderstands what it means to be a hero and a protagonist at that. What makes a true hero is the ability to pick yourself up from the shattered remains of your past and find the strength to carry on. This is something we witness Jinx struggle with all throughout the season. She cannot find a reason to live, not until she develops a relationship with Isha. When she loses Isha she loses that reason again, and that is where she is really tested as a character and as a hero. Can she find the courage to keep living? To "take a step forward if it means leaving some things behind"? If we are to examine Powder from the AU, we see that, yes, she CAN do it. That character's arc ends with Powder taking a step forward, so why can't our Jinx do the same? They are parallel, and despite how dire things are for Jinx in our reality, I think it is far more beautiful if she too decides to take a step forward and embrace life.
I agree, I was very disappointed to hear that Schnee thinks her death makes for a better story. To have Jinx die would actually undermine the story. I don't think it's one of the "words of god" as schnee puts it. It would just be a bad story.
This might be the first time I disagree with Schnee. Not necessarily the fact whether she lives or dies, but his argument that her death is better for her story. I actually feel the complete opposite, and during my first watch, when I thought she DID die, I felt pretty unsatisfied. Like, past the sadness of a character dying, I felt unfulfilled by the story. Only after rewatch and discussion where there were clues that she lived did I start to get it a little more. Jinx choosing to die undermines the climax of her arc. Throughout the entire show she thinks she's bad for her loved ones, until the end when Ekko convinces here there IS a good version of her. And the entire point of the show is there is no Jinx vs Powder. She is who she is, whether be molded from tragedy or support. Silco(Jinx) quite literally says that preconceived narratives are a prison, and you must CHOOSE to break free. Unfortunately Jinx drew the wrong conclusion from Silco(her subconscious) and thinks death is the solution. Until Ekko arrives to correct the conclusion. Ekko, through his own journey, realizes that Jinx and Powder are the same person. That he should never have given up on Jinx, because he would have never given up on Powder. Don't die, don't give up. Break free of the past, and keep marching on, keep building something new. The last hopeful verse of Wasteland directly parallels Jinx's arc. "If it weren't for you, I'd be here all alone. I know in my heart this is where we belong, the world is a wasteland, DON'T let me go." Okay, but we don't want to cheapen the narrative. We don't want to have our cake and eat it too. But the tragedy in this case isn't Jinx's own narrative in a vacuum (though it is tragic). The tragedy is the relationship between the two sisters. They can both live, but they can't be together. Vi will never put her own happiness first if Jinx still lives. Jinx will always feel guilt if she's close to Vi. So why not explicitly show Jinx living? I think this is a narrative trick. The writers wanted to maximize the emotion of the scenario. They wanted us to feel what Vi is feeling. If you show a scene of Jinx escaping, you break that empathy with Vi. It sucks out the impact of her (fake?) sacrifice for Vi. For me (and this is the beauty of the show, every one has valid interpretations of it), the essence of Arcane is the relationship between Vi and Jinx. It's turbulent, it's harmonious, dissonant, dynamic. It's the most fleshed out dichotomy in a show of dichotomies. And it doesn't end harmoniously. It ends with Vi thinking her sister died. Jinx living is still a tragedy because her and Vi can't stay together, at least not for now. That being said, I still loved your video and the arguments for her death are compelling. I just think Jinx finally dying throws away the last part climactic part of her character arc. I think the argument that her death is better for her story is the sort of trapped thinking that hallucinated Silco argues AGAINST. Your previous "story" doesn't matter, it's a prison, it's made up rules. Go out and be something different. Dying is uninteresting because you're just checking a box in a predetermined cycle.
I'm not gonna lie, but having the character who's been trying to kill herself this entire time finish her arc by being told she can choose to leave her trauma behind and build something new, so she seemingly successfully kills herself doesn't sit right with me. Whether she survived or not, the fact that she doesn't clearly choose that (ie that we don't know) is a horrible concept to put out imo. I've imagined a separate version of this scene in my head where she fakes her death to Vi by throwing the grenade upwards, but uses either the glove or the explosion itself to escape, letting Vi grieve her sister's death but move on from it and stop trying to save or protect her, leaving in the blimp to build something new with Ekko, whatever that would be.
I think the conclusion of her being dead being the best way to end her story is tunnel visioning a bit to heavily onto the tragic aspects of her story, at the expense of how Arcane treats Jinx symbolically in the 2nd season. Jinx IS Zaun, she's a living embodiment of every aspect of the city and is constantly used to represent it in so many ways throughout the story. Zaun is "The monster Piltover created", as Jinx strikes back in vengeance. In doing so she becomes the symbol that's able to unite the Undercity despite their vast differences. In Ekko's story in the AU, him falling back in love with Powder is a tool to show him falling back in love with Zaun as a whole, not just the part he wants to interact with. Which directly leads to him saving her/Zaun! She is 100% alive because Zaun is still alive, and her leaving directly ties into what's happening with Zaun at the end. Striking out towards a new future, but one full of uncertainty and hostility, not to mention one that's not being realistic with its goals. Sure Sevika is on the council, but she's outnumbered 6-1 and I don't see those 6 being very gracious towards her. She's trying to embody being Zaun by being more like Piltover, and that's not going to work. Jinx is setting out to find herself, but you can't just chop off your past and pretend it no longer exists. You often need to get away from it to understand it, to deal with it, but ultimately it still controls you until you can come back and confront it. Zaun has "died" in a spiritual and political sense, and it needs to find its way before it can "live" again. I think both Jinx and Zaun are going to develop in similar ways. They're going to try to conform to what society deems a better vision of what they can be, but in doing so they're going to be denying certain elements of who they are. Zaun on the council is still subservient to Piltover, Jinx cannot deny the embodiment of chaos that she is. They'll both realize this isn't working, be forced to fully accept what they are but do so in a more deliberate, not-blowing-up-the-council way, and that is when Zaun will be able to fully embrace its independence. And I imagine that'll coincide with whenever Jinx comes home, the Heart of Zaun returning itself to the city. As for where she goes, my bets on Bilgewater. Illaoi's cult based on change is tailor made for this sort of story about finding self-acceptance, I'd bet money that's the next step. I also think it will be Heimerdinger (Also 100% not dead) who ultimately finds her and brings her home. He's seen all the good aspects of the AU Powder and possesses none of the emotional baggage Ekko has, he's perfectly set up to mentor her and bring out that good version that he also knows she can be. The founder of Piltover will help heal the heart of Zaun, helping to make up for his own mistakes in the process. I'll go a step further into crazy town, there's an extremely popular and hilarious invention of Heimerdinger's in League's lore called the T-Hex, which is quite literally a mechanical weaponized Tyrannosaurus that Heimerdinger pilots. Now, I can't see the Heimerdinger we know in Arcane ever making that, not a chance. But a Heimerdinger with Jinx as his pupil? Affecting him in the same way Ekko showed Heimer how to live for the present? Mark my words, that dynamic duo is going to crash a future Piltover vs. Zaun civil war with a mech the pair have created and it will glorious!
I'm definitely in the camp of "Jinx, the identity, has died, Powder, or whatever she chooses to be, lives to *make* that choice". And your idea singlehandedly proves my opinion to be smart and right, so thanks!
Just have to strongly disagree - a character suffering that much and dying is not a release or a victory or a meaningful tragedy, it's just death for death's sake. It's not a redemptive sacrifice. It's not some profound lesson. It's just... bookending because 'that's how the song ends'. I hate it, and I hate the message even more. To be honest, I hate redemptive sacrifice, too - because it's a shorthand. A cop-out. A fairy tale bookend. Living is better story because living has a FUTURE and living is HARD. Being able to work out a "new Jinx" outside of toxic influences, coming back to demonstrate that change, so many stories yet to tell. Finding a way to LIVE as chaos rather than die and terminate - all better stories. A "good death" when death isn't truly the only way forward (such as a terminal illness or mortal wound) is just... Poetry at the cost of honesty. It's bedtime stories. And we can be better than that.
Still a great video - I just /hate/ that particular conclusion vibe. Especially because it is a kind of storytelling that directly feeds into ideations among the audience. "See? Death IS the best way." Intended or not.
Totally agree. It seems too plain and simple, compared to the nuance Arcane shows in its storytelling. I believe S2 is about finding ways to move forward despite the tragedy of the world, through loss and sacrifice, but not sacrifice of one’s own life, since that defeats the point of it in the first place.
Yeah, I always hate when a flawed character is redeemed by sacrificing themselves. Dying is an easy way to tie up a character arc, but watching them live, learn from their mistakes, and make better choices is more rewarding. It's not easy to pull it off, but it's more satisfying in the long run. That's why I believe that Jinx is alive and she will most likely come back in a spin-off series.
As Buffy says, "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave. Live." By leaving on the airship, Jinx can have an entire world that functions like Schnee pointed out about Isha - she is going to meet people who don't have all of these pre-existing notions about her and she won't have all that baggage. There is a whole world of good development for her. I also strongly agree with you about the messaging; telling people with ideation that death really is the best answer is terrible. I want to believe they didn't do that. For the record, I thought she was really sacrificing herself when I watched it the first time because it made sense for the story. I was bawling as soon as the song came in as she was falling. But I think all of the analysis afterwards has convinced me that she is alive. It is still a satisfying end for all of the reasons you mentioned.
13:20 what about Sevika? They spent like half the season together and she was at least orbitally aware of Jinx during her entire childhood post-The Incident
I like her keeping herself alive from the perspective of the 'ending the cycle' line. She is ending her cycle of violence even against herself. But that's a personal preference.
I feel like the fact that the hints towards her survival exist at all is enough prove, simply because they'd serve no real purpose otherwise, Jinx dying would mean an awful character regression on her part, her being suicidal at her darkest moment, convinced that she's destruction and nothing else, that the only thing she can do is bring harm to those she loves is her being wrong, her being mistaken on what she is and her place in the world, her reaching the wrong conclusion from everything that's happened. Meanwhile, walking away to build something new, walking away to allow those left behind to look towards the future. The best part of that is the ship, because not only would she finally be at the helm, in control of what she does and where she goes but she would also be accepting of her past self instead of discarding it.
Ekko went through so much trouble talking jinx out of killing herself that her dying 20 mins later does not make sense. The whole point of that scene is that she realizes life is worth living,
I believe there is a 4th option that was over looked here. Jinx does survive by using shimmer and dashing/jumping away but the song about falling asleep and her memories of Vander were not for her. They were for Vander she was putting Vander, her father, a beast of suffering to sleep. Jinx dying would be the perfect end, which is why her surviving works all the better with the belief she is dead. Jinx finally gets to protect the people she loves. Not once was she able to do that. Her siblings were killed. Vander was dead turned into a monster, Isha died in front of her. However at the end Jinx could give Vi the life she knew Vi deserved and free Vander, saving him from the mindless creature he's become. This is where she finds meaning in her life, this is where she learns why everyone in Zaun and Isha saw her as a hero a protecter. She let's Piltover, Zuan, and Vi believe she's dead. Cat doesn't believe this she know Jinx better than that. However she stays silent knowing it's Jinx last wish to release the city of her. Vi and Cat are there they will protect and grow the cities now. Jinx is off to distant lands of runeterra to free others... Something along those lines I rambling a bit and I'm at work so this was rushed 😂😅
I just. how is it a satisfying, beautiful character arc if a suicidal person finally finds an excuse to feel good about dying? what is compelling about vi essentially going through the exact same trauma from episode 3? this isn't gonna allow vi to move on, it's going to break her further.
I think a lot of the rest of the comments have talked about why for her character specifically it actually does make a better story if she lives but she lets her Jinx persona and past life die. But I think it also elevates the themes of the second season. We’re shown that even though *this* story that’s unfolding throughout the season is a tragedy, it doesn’t *have* to be. There’s the possibility for redemption, forgiveness, turnaround, and building new things, even though we haven’t seen it in the main universe yet. The ending of the hex-tech plot *was* the aversion of the most tragic ending. Given all of that, and Jinx being in a suicidal spiral, her leaving to “break the cycle” and build a new peaceful life where she isn’t important is much more fitting to the hopeful themes sown through the second season. I also just in general think that there’s much more power in hopeful stories than in tragedies. One invites you to wallow in sorrow, or motivates you to change based on the story out of fear, while the other inspires and invites acts of goodness by showing that they do make a difference.
YES The entire second season spoke constantly about hope for the future, learning from the past, and believing in the possibility that things can be different. I also believe that since the first season is one of the best tragedies I've witnessed, for multiple characters, having them all show different ways they can grow from that tragedy (even if still hurt by it) in the second season is really vital to the narrative themes.
Jinx’s character is fundamentally about conflict : between Powder and Jinx, innocence and chaos, love and alienation. Her death wouldn’t resolve this struggle; it would simply silence a voice still full of contradictions and possibilities. Her survival reflects the idea that some wounds never fully heal but don’t necessarily lead to definitive ends. Keeping Jinx alive aligns with the themes of ambiguity and unresolved tension that make her character so powerful. It suggests that even in the depths of chaos, there’s still room for hope, complexity, and continued growth and seems more logical with what Ekko said to her. Having Jinx die, whether as an act of redemption or a dramatic conclusion, risks falling into the familiar trope of the "broken" or unstable character finding resolution through sacrifice. While this might have been a dramatic end, it would have been a disservice to the nuanced storytelling Arcane is known for. Jinx is far more than a tragic figure; she is a complex exploration of trauma, morality, and identity. Keeping her alive subverts expectations and keeps her character open for further exploration, rather than reducing her to a predictable narrative device. I would add it's sending a very bad message : "The only outcome for the broken character is to die". Keeping Jinx alive doesn’t necessarily mean her story will dominate future narratives, but it does leave room for further exploration of her character. Her survival offers opportunities to delve into questions about her redemption, her self-acceptance, or how she might navigate a world where she’s lost everything.
I don't like Jinx dying in a way that *she* thinks is fitting. Her obsessive need to have her life follow a certain narrative is a toxic pattern. If she doesn't break from it, what was the point of inner Silco telling her not to confine herself to an idea of what she's supposed to be and how things should go? I think Jinx dies in that explosion symbolically. We know she likes the idea of building something *new,* and to do that you must leave the past behind. She incorporates pink streaks into her hair after the talk with Ekko, and what do we see escaping that explosion? Only a pink streak. (Yes I know it has to be that way because Shimmer, but I'm talking narratively). Jinx's past finally died in that blast, and was laid to rest. What survived, or rather, was born, is something entirely new. I believe Jinx surviving is the right choice for the story. Her death would undermine so many moments that were building up to a change. If she has to die, then it's not really true that you can build something new, is it? So much time was spent convincing Jinx that she can be something else *and* live. If she atones for her crimes then the past still matters, which I believe goes against the messaging.
Hey schnee. Love your videos, and I love your interpretation of the story through the lens of her needing reason for her death. But, I have to say, this is one of the few times I disagree with you. Well, disagree would be kind of a harsh word to say here, more like my interpretation breaks away. Ironically enough at the very end. I don't think Jinx's death would be a good one for her narratively. Here's why: Jinx/Powder's story is one of dependence. I think a lot of the story is one based on that, whether that be a dependence on emotional support, drugs, religion, or duty. More than all of that, Jinx depends on others for validation. She first depends on Violet to validate her as a good sister and runner, then Vander as a daughter, then Silco as the same, and then finally Isha as an older sister/mentor. Her entire arc is described as someone who is looking for something to prove her existence, much like you said. But I disagree in the fact that she has it figured out. I don't think she understands her "story" at all. In fact, I think the reason she constantly spirals is because she's so lost. She NEEDS someone else to define her, which is why she immediately attaches herself first to Violet, then Silco, then Isha, and then, when she is isolated in a cell with no one to depend on, she goes back and attaches herself to an idea of Silco. Jinx herself is incapable of standing on her own, of defining who she is, because she's too wrapped up in the narrative that those around her have created for her. It's something that even the au Jinx/Powder does. She attaches herself to au Ekko and never branches out on her own. It's what Vander was trying to push her to do. After two seasons of watching her be beholden to the whims and definitions of others, to see her finally end her story by dying tastes a little bitter. This character that struggles this entire journey with defining her story, something that I don't believe she was able to do even after choosing her chair as the "Jinx", end her story not as something greater, but as a product of the very toxic narrative she'd lived in her whole life tastes bitter. It feels better to me, at least, to think she'd finally managed to walk away. That she finally managed to cut ties and the dependency she had on everyone else and finally fly free of Piltover/Zaun. Fly free of her need to be Powder, the sister of Vi; Jinx, the daughter of Silco; Jinx, the mentor of Isha; and Jinx, the hero of Zaun. Even as Jinx, the potential love interest of Ekko. Jinx/Powder was both a combination of all of those, and none of that, and it is about time for her to find out what that is. It is time for her to write her own story, away from all of that. Through this lens, to see her die at the end, after all that struggle, only serves to reinforce that her only worth this entire time was through what other people defined her as; chiefly as the sister of Violet, and that's a bit sad.
I fundamentally disagree. I think it would be better if she survives, BECAUSE disagrees with this idea of a story in her head, this idea that she has to do die after being held back by these bars for so long. I think it is a fundamentally better story to show her choosing to live and making a better future. That her being unable to die is not because fate wants her to heroically sacrifice herself, but because dying isn't her conclusion, and can't be her conclusion. Arcane is a drama yes, but it's also about hope, and forgiveness, and moving on from past mistakes and making amends. For Jinx / Powder, choosing her life away from these confines, choosing to be alive and be happy with her choice, that is what conclusion she should go with.
I think that it is a better story if she chose to live and lives for the following reasons. I think how Arcane started, how season 1 ended, and how season 2 ended. It started with her killing her father by accident to save her sister and splitting her identity. Season 1 ended with her killing her father somewhat (un)intentionally to save her sister and solidifying her identity as Jinx while letting Powder die. After her season 2 conversation with Silco and identities being the prisons we build around ourselves, Season 2 ends with her intentionally killing her father to save her sister and then escaping the identities that people have tried to force on her as both Powder and Jinx.Vi, Cait, even Ekko have these preconceived notions of who she is or needs to be, who she is defined as. But if she escapes, then the rigid identity of Jinx dies while the character lives. She gets to leave it all behind. She doesn't just let others build something new, she gets to as well. Sometimes taking a step forward means leaving a few things behind, be it identities or loved ones. I remember when season 2 was in development the writers were asked about the themes of the season, and they said war and forgiveness. I think Jinx choosing to live would be a sign of her forgiving not just her sister, but also herself. She wanted to die for so long, condemning herself. Forgiving herself, she doesn't need to truly die anymore. For Piltover and Zaun, that forgiveness meant coming together to stop a terrible future in spite of the horrible things people on both sides did to each other, and building bridges to a better future after. For Vi and Jinx, their forgiveness meant coming together to stop their past from continuing to hurt them, and then separating to not be constrained by that past anymore. For Jinx the character to die, it would be like Zaun ceasing to exist. In both cases, rebuilding needs to occur. The destroyed cities need to literally rebuild, and these two damaged sisters need to rebuild who they are. I hope that makes sense. #teamjinxlives
Personally, I think they left it ambiguous, but there is simply no point to those breadcrumbs if we're not supposed to make something of it. The last time I watched s2e9 I noticed how much time they spent on Cait looking at those airducts, and that's too intentional. I feel like if the story they wanted to tell us that Jinx is dead, then she would have been DEAD. Or, at least, Jinx as an identity is dead. And that makes sense for her. She's someone who has gone through a symbolic death of a past identity before. When she's falling with Vander, her tears flying up even resemble bubbles, as if she's underwater, recalling her baptism in the river. She is baptised as someone NEW, someone who isn't haunted by her sister, and her family, and the blood on her hands, because she finally did right by them.
This just made me think of a parallel. The S1 "baptism" by Silco and her putting him to rest in a parallel moment at the beginning of S2E2 (even if only in her mind) is one excellent reflection of her coming to terms with her past, but what about the moment in S1E3 where she's flung off the warehouse roof by her monkey bomb working? That time, she accidentally killed Vander. This time, her and Vander are falling through the air together, and she has a new monkey bomb that she can use to finally put him to rest. That also ties her into Silco, since the framing of Silco at the beginning of S1E3 and Powder later in that episode through the blue-glowing air are clearly parallels, but she was never faced with the decision he was: to let go, or to survive. This entire season, she's been telling us that she can't die, which implies that she's been trying to passively or actively let go. Falling through the air with hextech and Vander for a second time, I personally love the implication that she's getting a chance to make that choice actively, and while either option makes sense to a degree, I can't help but think that making the same choice Silco did, *survive*, would be a lovely parallel. However, she also has the addition of the "walk away from the cycle of violence" and "build something new" speeches, which is why she's not just going to drop back into her old life. She needs to do something completely different, rather than following Silco's lead and getting sucked ever deeper into the cycle of violence between Piltover/Zaun until she can't escape without dying. Ekko maintains a delicate balance where he's not been sucked into the cycle completely, but he does dip in and out of it, which I don't think she can do in a healthy way at this point and maybe never.
also one grenade aint gonna take warwick out. he took a 3x crystal explosion to the face and was fine, and jinx saw it happen. so what would be the point of her "sacrificing herself" if she knows it's not going to hurt him
I would like to believe that she survived. It's like Silco said, "I'd like to believe that to break the cycle one simply has to walk away" so Jinx escaping means that she's found the strength and the courage to walk away which is more satisfying than her just dying. I'd also like to add that her killing the persona Jinx means that she believes Ekko's words, that she can be a good version and that she's worth building something new for.
jinx’s fate is decently controversial within the community, many relate it to hopefulness many felt around isha’s death. however, i do feel there is enough evidence to warrant the speculation this time, and i find that very exciting!!!
The thing is, Arcane has no filler parts. If they show something, it's for a reason. At the end, when Cait looking at the bomb and the air ducts, what other reason can be there than to signal Jinxes escape? My head cannon is that they never found Jinxes body, but they did find the bomb, and that's why she's looking at the air vents.
Great analysis, but I think there’s one more part that you forgot/left out, and it’s Ambessa’s line to Caitlyn about having the strength to forgive. Jinx wants to break the cycle and in doing so she either kills herself or survives, but sacrificing herself with Ambessa’s ideas in mind “keeps the cycle going” even though Jinx would be dead. In terms of blood debts, she owes so much to not only everyone around her, but to herself too. She’s killed both her dads and her siblings and now has a choice: kill their killer or to have the strength to forgive herself and break the cycle by literally running away from the explosion. Breaking the cycle is only part of the conversation in Arcane, the cycle fully ends with Ambessa’s insight (whether she was being sarcastic in her speech or not) of “having the strength she does not… to forgive”
Counter argument to your point of Jinx dying being narrative conclusion: it could be the same or similar case to when Jinx kills Powder, maybe she moves on takes on a reformed persona or becomes Powder again and Powder is the one killing Jinx, she left all her problems behind and traveled runeterra
Love your videos man. I do have to say though that as much as I can also see how Jinx being dead could be the perfect ending for her story, I also see her living as another perfect ending to her story. The idea of her trying to find who she is when she's no longer defined by someone else (very similar to Vi's own story) and has to figure out who she really is outside of her loved ones' preconceptions about who she is seems like a fitting end (new beginning?) to her story too.
Awesome analysis but I think Jinx dying would undermine her whole conversation with Ekko and Isha's sacrifice. Jinx being alive is also confirmed by the Arcane Art Book Artifact Edition. It has notes from Jinx all over the inside, and on the box it has "I LIVE" written all over it. Inside the art book on the first few pages Jinx writes "Wanna know a secret? I am still here" 😎
It’s far worse story if she dies if we take into account what your gonna discuss next week with the come play scene. The undercity rallied behind her in the end, she became a revolutionary (didn’t want to) for Isha. She did what that story built her up to do and she would have had the same reaction she did in Stillwater. That would give her purpose to live, I think you also missed that on her airship when Vander jumps onto it. She looks scared for her life, she never looks that way in any other near death. She found purpose. I think her going out and finding who she is outside of “jinx” is a far better story than dying in that moment especially as she discovered there is a good her. Also… the writers said we’re gonna continue her story. I saw what you said and I couldn’t disagree more about your analysis of how it impacts her story, the rest is really good.
Neither version is clean from a storytelling perspective. But I do think it's wild to introduce all the evidence of possibility of survival for no reason other than ambiguity in a show where very little has been left ambiguous. Like, if they wanted her dead, don't include all the evidence of possibility of survival. It doesn't make sense. The only person who it makes sense for is Vi to hold onto hope thst she made it. And she clearly doesn't have that. So this act of hope giving is entirely aimed at the audience and validated by Caitlyn, who we think of as a Jinx villain. Her being "happy" about evidence of Jinx's survival and then not telling Vi suggests to me that the writers want it to be our little secret so that Vi doesn't think she grieved and hurt for nothing. It really is a "have your cake and eat it too" approach. We get the emotional significance of her death without having to give up on Jinx fans who didn't want her to die (of which there appear to be many).
My take is she doesn’t need to actually die. She just wants everyone to think/believe she’s dead, because then ‘Jinx’ (the identity) IS dead. Death was an escape from the role her identity placed her in, so whether or not she actually died, she effectively escaped the identity, because everyone (in the story, bar maybe caitlyn) believed she was dead. Now, wherever she goes, ‘Jinx’ does not go with her, because ‘Jinx’ DID die in Piltover.
10:20 I think this is more about jinx finally having an option to die but CHOOSING not to, taking that agency back in a more positive way, I think it makes more sense that after Ekko changed her mind, she might have realized that yes she COULD die here, sacrifice herself to be a "good sister", but realizing that there is a way to build something new, otherwise Her dying kinda undermines the entire scene with Ekko IMO.
It's the same choice Silco was talking about all that time, but she'd never really faced it and made the choice. She'd always left it up to fate, and fate seemed to prevent her from dying, so she came to the conclusion that she simply couldn't die. This time, I don't think fate (aka the narrative) would have intervened, since the story would have ended the same either way, so I love the idea that she decided to finally take Silco's lesson and chose to survive, also taking Ekko's lesson about building something new in the process.
SHNEE THANK YOU FOR POSTING! MAKES MY DAY/NIGHT EVERYTIME AND I JUST LOVE the DEPTH YOU GET TO WITH IT ALL THE TIME ITS THE BEST TO SIT AND WATCH AND YES!
In a meta level, I think making the message that "killing yourself for someone else is okay" is.... oooh yikes. Personally I do fall into the camp of Ekko just getting through to her and the realization that she can't stay in this place that's so drenched in blood and trauma so if she wants to be free to build something new, she needs to leave. Which is functionally the same as death in the narrative as long as she's not touched on again.
I do truly love how like 5 minutes into the analysis I completely saw that you're on the topic of "Is Jinx dead or alive?" but you're not really answering it through the If scenarios you kept bringing up, instead you just kept going on on what would be good for the story and I just love how deep down all your videos are truly a love letter to arcane storytelling and a true delight to sit through and watch
It’s like schrodinger's cat, we cannot confirm that she is alive or dead until we see the series in which it will put this argument to rest. For now with Arcane as a series is over, she’s dead as we don’t see her on screen presence after. She’ll be alive when we see her on screen presence in the next series. The art book and Ella hiding her smile when the question was asked hints at this reveal that certainly she is alive. Like Loki at the end of Thor faking her death, she’ll be back. The way she let goes at the end of the Thor 1 movie and her in a jail cell in Thor the Dark World reminds me of this parallel. I wouldn’t be surprised if she becomes some type of multiverse god, or at least asks Viktor to be. Perhaps Viktor will kindle a connection to Powder similar to that of Jayce. I can see some type of future Viktor guiding AU Powder to the creation of hex tech similar to what she did with Jayce, but who knows in regard to the possibilities story can take.
This is a good video discussing the possibilities of the state jinx is at in the story, Schnee, especially the part on Warwick and whether Vander came back to save his daughter again.
No, Shnee, suicide is NOT the perfect end to her arc. In fact it’s wildly risky for writers to be promoting and glorifying suicide like this. Many real suicidal people feel they are saving people when they kill themselves. Our stories should not be reinforcing that narrative. I used to think arcane was the best show in the world but after the last episode I feel like it’s just as bad as 13 Reasons Why. Suicidal people need to be shown that change is possible and that there is a different way forward and that there is a place for them in the world. I can only hope the writers knew this and will show a happy, living Jinx in the next series
Seriously. They were so irresponsible with this IMO. Jinx literally tried to do it 5 minutes earlier, kill herself to stop "jinxing" Vi and everyone she loves with her existence, because she feels her responsible for what happened to Isha. MANY suicidal people think this way about "saving" their families and loved ones. If Ekko stops her only so that she can still "save Vi by dying" very soon afterwards, then what's even the point of him saving her? Saying she can "build something new"? How can anyone build anything by fucking dying? Is this really supposed to be the conclusion of this show - "suicide IS the answer, if you manage to make it heroic enough"? It's insane. How is Vi supposed to get less traumatized and happier after seeing her sister kill herself to save her life? "Always with you, sis" - that's just wonderful, sounds exactly like what Claggor and Mylo were to Jinx, dying and then haunting her forever. This can literally only make emotional sense to mentally ill people who struggle with suicidal ideation and think they can "save" others from their "burden". And telling them it's a good idea is really NOT the message they should be receiving.
Honestly both arguments of Jinx dying or surviving make sense, but the thing keeping me on the living side of the argument is the fact we never have any implications of a body being found. Not to mention Cait holding part of her bomb that went off and looking at the vents having those very specific facial expressions, also it wouldn't really make sense in my opinion for her to be looking at the prints of the building structure if they had already found her body, let alone Cait holding the bomb piece in her hand at the same time. Plus if we consider every other bit of evidence like the streak, airship, other points discussed in the video, league lore with her being friends with a character from an upcoming series from LoL(that could be wrong I don't know much about LoL lore but i did hear multiple people mention it,) and how it could negatively impact Vi's story (it being her fault a loved one died again causing her more guilt etc.) So in my opinion I think it is really heavily implied she is alive and just kinda makes more sense to me.
I love that quote at the end "You will lose out on a lot of beauty in life if you only try to understand what you agree with". I can commiserate with making an argument when one is deeply in one's emotions. I've eventually learned to step back & look at other people's reasons without the purpose of trying to change them. It makes life more colorful, & it broadens my interests. Thank you for analyzing the question so many of us wanted you to talk about. And thank you for showing us, yet again, the questions behind the question. I can't wait for your next video! But I will.
One thing to note about the Monkey grenade is that if you slow down thee scene where she tries to blow herself up right before ekko saves her you can clearly see a pink streak shoot out of the monkey grenade (specifically the eyes on the monkey head) I'm not sure if this solves anything but i thought it was worth mentioning.
i don't know i don't really like the "kill yourself or everyone you love will die" ending? how is that beautiful? "jinx suffered too much" so what we put her down like a horse? really weird analysis this time
The pink streak is not that convincing but the air ducts and the airship is. There is also an orange streak so Warwick might also be alive. The best ending is to let this question open.
I agree that it was Vander that saved her, because it is connected to that Monkey bomb in that case. When Jinx takes out her Monkey bomb - camera zooms on it - then we see Vander's memory of tucking Powder and Vi in ( they were asleep so it is his memory of it, not theirs ) and him blowing the candle - the angle of that shot is showing to us his face and Powder's Monkey head side by side. Same head she has on her bomb now, same style. Last time she wanted to use a bomb on him was in prison when they fought and it made him remember who she was, so this flashback could indicate that he was the one that threw her to safety, he was holding her by the waist anyways. I don't know if she is strong enough to escape his grip on her own. Him blowing that candle could be a metaphor of the last thing "Vander" did, idk. I think she tries to make him remember who she is when Vander jumps on her lair ship, first time we see him during the attack - it is a short scene - Jinx is lying on the ground and you can see her holding the bomb in her right hand while she is holding onto a railing with her left one, it happens just before Vi jumps in with Ekko.. HOWEVER, there is also this: someone pointed out that explosion happened in the dome, it did NOT happen near those air ducts Caitlyn was looking at. SO, bomb exploded in the dome but they continued falling down ( option where that pink streak is from the bomb itself, as seen when she tries to kill herself but Ekko stops her ) Then they would reach those air ducts we see in the blueprint and Vander would "throw" her there. Jinx actually merged her personalities into one at the end and she managed to "create something new". Her really dying here is basicslly saying only death is her redemption, which is not what episode 7 told us. Not death, but create something new. However it happened, too many details are there saying she lived ( Caitlyn looking at airducts holding part of her bomb, Vanders menories of the past, that airship only Powder reffers to, even Arcane writers unable to respond to a question is she dead or not. Writers already cut a lot of things from final episode, so to leave all that just so she is dead is not possible. Also in case you still think she did die - THE END is in Jinx style with scribbles on an airship from s1e1 she pointed to with " the Bridge" tune. Come on
It would be actually so funny if her "please let me go" was literally directed at Vander, as in "please stop holding me with your claws so that I can escape this explosion" .
If it had just been the pink streak I'd believe it was pushed by Riot, but also having Caitlyn investigating the vents and the airship leads me to believe that her living was the intended ending. I think her dying is more satisfying from a story perspective, although it does make me a little uneasy that all the main characters who attempted suicide end up sacrificing themselves.
Honestly, I'm surprised we're still debating this, I thought we had all agreed that Jinx had left Piltover with all the teases they gave us at the end.
I would love to see a vi focused video, they’re hard to come by recently. I understand to most she may not be as compelling as some of the other characters but it hurts to see her get overlooked, I still feel like there’s a lot to discuss and analyse when it comes to her this season, even just the little things that people tend to brush past/disregard
Saaaaaaaame. All videos about Vi are shipping videos with Caitlyn. Vi is such a misunderstood character I would love to see more content of diving in deeper on her arc.
It's so interesting because I think she's one of the deepest and hardest to understand characters. A lot of characters people sympathize more with have their struggles and emotions EXPLICITLY shown in the show, Vi is not one of them. To understand Vi you have to look a little deeper than what they show you on the screen. I feel like riot made it like this on purpose because Vi's character is like that, she doesn't show much of her feelings, she's the "strong one" who nobody thinks can get hurt, she's "though" and "cold", that's what people around her see and that's what WE see on the surface, then you realize she's the opposite of those things
exactly this!! I really actually like that about her and find her to be the most intriguing because of that. So much of her character lies within subtleties, it’s not always slapped in your face or overtly obvious, you have to take the time to read between the lines and figure it out for yourself, draw your own conclusions. I ended up empathising with her the most because that kind of archetype/characterisation aligns the most with me. I know the writers get flack for sidelining her trauma (which I sometimes agree with) but a part of me is also oddly accepting of it for that very reason, it’s stays truthful to her reality and the reality of many people. We don’t always get to have these big moments of emotional display or time to reflect or dwell in our feelings. This is especially true to her and what we know about her as a character, she focuses so much on others that she rarely takes time to focus on herself. I feel like that’s a reason it wasn’t always shown, vi didn’t allow it to be. She just picked herself up and kept on going a lot of the time because that’s who she is. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t affected, that she wasn’t hurt, that things didn’t impact her as strongly as they did jinx or other characters, she was just better at keeping it hidden and not letting herself feel it because she felt like she had to. I feel like the writers reflected that well in a lot of ways. Would more people have sympathised with her if we did get these more jinx like moments from her? Probably, but it also wouldn’t have been accurate to her as a person. We only get to see her starting to change up that narrative at the end of the season. I wish more people would look at her with a closer lens because there’s so much of substance there to find and explore. Sorry for the soapbox here I just really love vi (wasn’t it obvious) and have a lot to say about this topic
@@BS-bd4xo She is, but interestingly if you look at least at Season 1 she is the character that goes through the least growth and change. She starts out as a rebel who wants to protect the people she cares about and ends as a rebel who wants to protect the people she cares about. She doesn't really change in any fundamental ways. She goes through a lot more change in Season 2 but at the end of the day she hasn't fundamentally changed. She decided to move past her animosity for the Enforcers and join them, but it's because she still wants to protect the people she cares about and has just decided that working with Cait as an Enforcer is the best way to do that at that time In the scene with Jinx and Warwick Vander at the end she still hasn't changed, she isn't willing to let Jinx and Vander go even though it's the obviously correct decision To be clear I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily but it's very unusual for a protagonist's character arc
11:00 To sort out the "mechanics" of the whole situation a bit. Glowing eyes argument - I've interpretted the glow throughout the whole show as a symptom of not really "sanic gotta go fast" boost euphoria but a symptom of excitement - and as we all know excitement may come in a positive way (euphoria of fight, standing up to adversity, being a "big fat hero" - eg. look Rictus fight, Stillwater Vander fight) or negative, pure fear, way (eg. when Jinx finds out that Isha was taken to Stillwater or Jinx leaving Vi in the prison - in both situations her eyes also start to glow pink). So I think the pink streak doesn't cross out the possibility of her being saved directly or indirectly by Vander - the streak is not really connected to her movement but to her emotions. Also, in the suicide scene the grenade blows up immediately because she pulls the safety pin without holding the striker lever - assuming that writers took inspiration from real life grenades eg. MK2 (which seems true given the similarities to the real thing*** ) it is possible that with Vander she gained some distance from him before the explosion (prepping it properly and jumping right when she leaves it behind, letting go of the striker lever after pulling the pin or maybe throwing it (which I think in some weird way makes sense with some paths they could take her)). If you watch it frame by frame it's kinda inconclusive, kinda proving my theory - the streak and explosion literally come in the same frame but IMO pink streak is already extended at the moment of explosion what suggest that she had a head start (in "speedster" type of speeds my way of seeing it seems plausible). But at the end of the day that's fckin boring and you're right - the best way to approach it is through the story, not through some pixels and weird details. And IMO her still living makes sense in regards to many motifs given throughout the series but I like your reasoning - maybe I don't agree with it just because of cope :D - I've really sympathized with Jinx, she became my favourite character (maybe because of many loose similarities between us - broken up family, similar sibling dynamic, feeling of being different throughout my life) so I would be devastated if it turns out that she's dead. Anyway - great video, keep'em coming! *** - but also this hinges on the fact that writers have read only first page of the manual :D. With real nades time to explosion is defined by fuse so even when pulling the safety pin without holding the striker lever the explosion would be delayed. With 0s fuse it would still make sense but the margins start to get a bit murky. It's kinda like - if writers have only 50% knowledge about nades the theory works in 100%; if writers have 100% knowledge about the nades the theory works in 50% :D
In-game, her passive ability is the one that gives her a speed boost, and it's literally called "Get Excited!" so I love that you noticed that. She seems to be able to turn it on semi-intentionally at some points in the show, after Season 1 where she clearly doesn't have a lot of control over it, but it's also definitely strongly linked to her emotions.
As much as I don't want to jump on any 'hate train' about the show, if we had had another scene with jinx/echo working together it could've explained a lot more and made a lot more sense for either conclusion, I hate the fact that it's even a discussion ngl
For me, if Jinx lives, answering the question at the end of the video, she would wonder around Zaun and Piltover as one member of his own move, to see what's changing and how everyone is doing without really interfering with them, as she would want to keep her supposed death as that. But I do think it would be interesting to explore it if she only talks with Ekko, as I imagine she has feelings for him, not because of the alternative universe, because she really showed care to the plan they made, genuinly thinking that she is able to make something new with him.
In any of the cases, is bad. If Jinx died, is not just cliche but also inappropriate for a key-aspect of Jinx redemption: the will to live. And if Jinx forged her own death, then with was not redeemed at all, because she still don't trust in the agency of those who she cares about. By making her old sister thinks she died, Vi will always be trapped in a lie, and misses a key-aspect for Vi's fixing: the letting go of the lies she believes. Can you imagine, for example, Frodo making Sam, Merry and Pippin think he died? In any of the cases, Arcane ruined the journeys of their main characters in the end. The writers had put so much focus in side characters that left nothing for the sisters's closure but threadbare climax and/or immaturity that neglect their growing
Considering that every character and moment of this season had their own plot twist flipping the entire script for what we thought was gonna happen, yeah it fits that she actually lived.
Fair--Idk I choose to imagine her staying alive because I don't want suicide to be glorified. Jinx being alive does more good overall on that metanarrative front, even if the narrative states otherwise
Honestly so agreed about not being that interested in the "factual" answer. It reminds me a lot about people arguing about the ending of Inception when that first came out. The "factual" answer to whether he's still in a dream isn't really important or that interesting.
I disagree with your conclusion. I think the story is better if Jinx survives. This might be personal preference, but I don't like if the "is supposed to die" character actually dies. It's just giving up to me. I don't think this undermines her sacrifice at all. She does sacrifice something. She sacrifices her old life, her relationship with Vi, her relationship with anyone in Piltover and Zaun. This is a significant sacrifice. Also we see this scene from Vis perspective. She does lose her sister. She has to let her go. But for Jinx, she has been through the whole thinking she has to die process. Why save her if she's going to die anyways. Why let her die in a situation that could've been completely avoidable if Vi just could let go? It's cruel. We have enough stories where the mentally ill character dies. We don't need the message that Jinx is just to broken, that she has to die in order to rest and be free. As someone who suffers from mental illness myself this type of messaging is really damaging. And it's not Jinx arc to me, or at least not the conclusion to her arc. Characters usually have to go from what they want to what they actually need. If a character is defined by running from death, them accepting death would be the right conclusion. Jinx however wants to die, so in order for her to evolve she has to realize that she can live. She can live, leave everything behind and start a now life
I think there’s a lot of merit to Jinx leaving/escaping, because it really ties everything we saw in episode 7 together. Vander and Silco could only be brothers again when they both moved on and agreed they made mistakes, Ekko could only get back when he helped powder move on and find new hope, and in arcane we see what happens when people DONT move on. We see the cycle of killing repeat, Vander and silco, the weird chainsaw lady, victor and Jace, black rose and Medarda. Jinx as a character has been the least able to move on, the most trapped in the past even in season two she’s more confident but still trapped in regret and solitude. What we see in the finale is characters breaking the cycle, Ekko going back to jinx, Jace and victor leaving, medarda approving of Mel. If Jinx dies that means that regret and solitude wins, the PAST wins. So I love the idea that she didn’t die because it won’t end when she dies(Vander proved that), it ends when she leaves.
the view i have is that whether Jinx dies or not, the point is that her identity as powder/jinx has ended. I feel her death is a symbol of 'jinx' dying, as she struggles so much w her identity in s2, especially during Isha bits n bobs. also links to her starting her life anew that you were talking about in the last analysis. Maybe her death being ambiguous is telling us that her future isn't clear cut or set in stone. There's no definitive way for her now, just something new and unexplored, whether that's in death or life.
IMO this "big question" DOES make the story worse and contributes a lot to the feeling of a "rushed" season. Jinx is THE central character of this character-driven show, and her choices in the finale are what should've been put front and center, not left for surprise reveals and "mystery box"-style cliffhangers. Dead Jinx and alive Jinx are such vastly different character arcs that they make for two entirely different stories on the scale of the entire season. IMO, "alive" makes more narrative sense because otherwise we've had too many "false climaxes" earlier on, but it doesn't really matter that we disagree on this, the important part is that this shouldn't've been a question in the first place. If this were on par with S1, we'd instead be discussing what her choice means on several thematic levels.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees a bit. These types of endings are designed specifically to engage people on analysis of themes and meaning. Creators leave blank spaces in media with the intent that the audience will be able to follow the logic established prior to come to the conclusion they had in mind. This comment section, and frankly youtube as a whole, are full of people expressing their opinions and why they feel those opinions make the most sense narratively. You have people on both sides explaining it and citing examples from things like the visuals, the audio, call-backs prior episodes. I agree with you that alive Jinx makes a better story. I'd even say I'm so far on that side it seems crazy people argue against it, but the reason I believe that is because I've spent time re-watching episodes and thinking about the show from as many angles as I can imagine. Probably more than I would if they had just handed me the explanation. I don't think it's just lazy "mystery box" writing. I think the writers had clear intent for the character, and left it so that the audience can pick up the pieces and put the puzzle together themselves.
@@CrackedDota I wouldn't call it lazy, rather... misguided? There's a lot of puzzle material in S2 as it is. Like "what's up with that raven" or "how screwed is the AU given that last shot". Those are fun speculations that don't detract from the story. By contrast, the feelings of the central character in the climax should be as clear as day in order to be immediately felt during the watch, not reconstructed. Compare with the S1 "cliffhanger": we have absolutely no idea who will survive and who won't, or how the cities will be affected by Jinx's shot, but we 100% know and feel what's inside her (and Vi's) mind in that moment. That's what makes it cathartic, as schnee laid out in his great analysis of that scene. In S2 quite a few pivotal character moments are treated as surprise reveal material (namely, Cate's turn against Ambessa, Jinx's teamup with Ekko and Jinx's final decision). What makes it feel "rushed" for me is that those moments aren't given space to breathe and be felt in the moment. With Jinx specifically, the fact that she wants to die is established amazingly in S8. But then it's a mess of "Oh, I guess she now doesn't... Oh, I guess she does again... or does she?". Clarity is sacrificed for cool twists in the battle. As a result, instead of a "good" kind of uncertainty ("it's clear what is happening, but there are just so many implications to ponder") there's confusion (what is she even doing, let alone why?). And that's on top of Vander's appearance being confusing as it is (even schnee admits his arc makes little sense at that point) and all the metaphysical schenanigans in the other subplots (my other huge gripe with S2). For this moment to work as a tragedy like schnee would prefer, the entire scene should be like a trainwreck in slow motion: while we're observing Jinx's resolve to sacrifice herself, her motivations start to "click" and we're led to repeat "oh no" (as was perfectly executed with Isha). For this to be the kind of a "breakthrough" ending you and I seem to want, that's the point where the "puzzle" should click, with significant focus on Jinx's realization that she could "break the cycle" differently and us rooting for her success (still bittersweet because the family is shattered and mended at the same moment). Perhaps just as little as a flashback to earlier dialogue, recontextualizing Silco's and Ekko's words could turn that scene, or an explicit shot of Jinx in the blimp, pondering her course from there. In other words, a puzzle picked together after the fact is like an explained joke: by the time it starts making sense, it's too detached from the moment to evoke the desired feelings.
On the question of whether which answer better serves the storytelling, Jinx dying doesn't make sense. The ambiguity itself doesn't serve her sacrifice and the tragedy of her life. Caitlyn's scene looking at the hexgates and the airship at the end doesn't serve Jinx's death well. It's the only death that didn't commit to the dead part, characters who died and came back weren't alluded to be alive (Vander, Silco, Jinx, Mel. Viktor, Jayce) they stayed dead until the story found a way for them to live in the story again. No ambiguity, no wohoo are these characters alive or not, they stayed dead. Jinx's death was the only non-commital death in the whole story, and if that points to her being alive (ambiguity=hope) or dead (ambiguity=no hope) that's fine. What's better for the story? to commit the storytelling to itself. To commit to the dead part or the alive part. For the story to be non-commital and it being about the protagonist isn't beautiful. Piece two and two together and Jinx is alive.
@Schnee if you aren't aware, there is a mini-game on the League of Legends client that is giving context for Jinx for season two. Stuff like what materials she used to fix Sevika's arm, and tying more character history together. Would love for you to incorporate the additional information into your analysis videos as canon-adjacent material. Great vid as always man. PS if you do it, for act two of the mini-game, you will know the code if you know/recognize the locations
I would like to push this discussion in another direction, actually. From a storytelling perspective, why does Jinx's fate need to be up to interpretation? What does that achieve? What purpose does it fulfill? Because we're speculating on whether she is dead or alive and what that would mean for her, as if we haven't seen the ending of the show yet. But we have! So why do we not see the aftermath? Why is the focus put on just before that instead? Why does Jinx's story NEED to end at that point specifically? Here's the conclusion I've come to. We don't see her fate, because this scene is the death of the Jinx identity. The Silco speech (which happens in Jinx's head) is about how identities constrain and imprison. Whether or not the girl we know as Jinx physically survives *doesn't matter* - the Jinx identity dies either way. More importantly, had we actually seen her fate - would it be seeing her on the ship or in a coffin - this fact would have gone entirely over our heads - it would have stopped being in focus. This reminds of one of schnee's other videos discussing s1's ending, when he analyzed why the focus of the scene was Jinx shooting the cannon and not Piltover exploding. To use the example he used in that video with Star Wars - had Darth Vader not died saving Luke, our focus would no longer be at Vader's decision to do the right thing and turn lightside, but would have been on the family reunion - undermining the message of the movie. The same thing is happening here. As a whole this entire scene really is about freeing these characters: - It frees Vi - she could not give up on Jinx, but with her gone, she can now be happy. It also frees her from the burden of killing her father again (as mentioned in this video). - It frees Vander - no matter if this shows that there was still a fraction of Vander left in this scene or if this was entirely symbolic - as shown by the flashback of him tucking Vi and Powder in bed, it's a way for him to say goodbye to his daughters. - And again, it frees the girl we know as Jinx - the Jinx identity is dead - she has finally *resolved* that conflict and is free to build something new. On my opinion, if she is actually alive though - 100% without a shadow of a doubt in my mind. - The fact that Cait is looking at the schematics of the hexgate, while holding a part of Jinx's grenade, shows that the body hasn't been recovered - this would be important both for legal reasons and to give closure to Vi. - In ep7 we see a healthy version of Powder, who despite still having had hardships in her life, was able to prevail and come to terms with her demons. Her dying in the OG universe would drain all meaning from this - presenting that somehow Jinx was too broken to live, which would arguably go against what the show is trying to give us as a message. - AU Powder's conflict also revolves around "filling her own cup", not just other's. Jinx sacrificing herself for someone else would leave this arc unresolved. - This would undermine the Ekko-Jinx conversation in ep9. I would argue that no matter if it's a sacrifice or an attempt to stop conflict - death is death, it would not be building something new. - There's also the second half of the song "Wasteland", where the lyrics say: "I'm not ready to face it Don't go saying goodbye There's a beauty in changes And I wanna try This world is a wasteland where nothing can grow If it weren't for you, I'd be here all alone I know in my heart this is where we belong This world is a wasteland *Don't* let me go, go, go, go Go, go, go, don't let me go" - Jinx has stories outside of Piltover and Zaun in LoL lore. Keeping in mind Arcane is now canon to it, although it has already made some significant changes to it, having Jinx die at this point would leave HUGE holes in the lore. - Yea there's also the ship and explosion things, though I believe these to be weaker arguments for her living. The ship at the end could be a symbol of her moving on, even if she's dead. And the explosion doesn't just have one pink streak. Despite that, I still believe she is alive for the reasons provided in the other arguments. EDIT: I'd like to thank and shout out everyone else in this comment section for helping me figure this out! This whole theory really is just a mix of a bunch of other comments I have seen here, which I agree with and helped me answer the questions I put on the table in the beginning. I would like to know what all of you think though!
I personally feel that her faking her death to let Vi move on was a really awful message. She had just lost Isha, she should know what a cruel pain that is. Traumatizing loved ones because they'd be better off without you, if they wanted to go that route, maybe they should've made it so that Vi really would be better off without her? Maybe Jinx could've become a crazed shimmer addict, idk. As it is, they still could've run away together. I was really drunk watching the ending, so maybe i missed something, but i don't see how this was a super nessesary or effective sacrifice to make, making everyone think she's dead.
10:08 No NO NOO!!! I love you schnee but this is a HORRIBLE take. Letting someone think you're dead so they can 'move on' and 'be happy' is one of the most CRUEL, HEARTLESS, and MISGUIDED things you can do to someone. Especially your immediate family. You don't think Vi is going to carry this with her the rest of her life? How she failed to 'take care of Powder' not once, but twice? Imagine if you had a misguided sibling who was always getting into trouble that you've been trying to help. Then you're partly responsible for their death. How would you feel? Not only that, but say they ended up living. And the reason they didn't tell you was so 'you could move on and be happy without the troubled sibling'. See how ridiculous this sounds in real life? Personally I think the writers gave enough clues to show that Jinx is alive. I don't think they would kill such a popular character. What I DO think is they went for shock value. That fake out death was for the audience, NOT the characters. And if true, it cheapens the end of the season. This all could have been solved by a conversation with Vi and Jinx after the battle. Where Jinx tells Vi that she's in a good place for the first time since her childhood, and Vi has to let her go. THAT'S how you let someone move on and be happy. NOT letting them think you're dead. 16:34 100%. If Jinx is dead the ending works beautifully. If not like you said, it's completely undermined.
I've always said this and I'll say it again: if you don't see a character die on screen, then they're probably still alive. Especially if they don't show you a body. So I don't believe for even a millisecond that Nugget (my nickname for Jinx/Powder) is dead. 😌
He is correct in that when taking all meta information into account Jinx is most likely alive with it left ambiguious for future story telling purposes, but based on everything actually in the show there is certainly no doubt she is alive. The biggest point for this that he left out in his argument is that Cait is not only looking at the schematics of the hex gate but also holding the head of the grenade. As a cop/leader of Piltover recovering Jinx's body for legal purposes and to prove she is dead would be very important and it would also be important personally to Vi so they can bury Jinx. So the fact that she found and searched the blast site and even found debris from the explosion but no body is a very pointed omission. And the argument that the story is better with her dead is a personal opinon and I'd argue that it is not universal. Esspecially for anyone who has struggled with mental health issues and suicidal tendencies, Jinx overcoming those and chosing to walk away from eveything makes a better more interesting story/character arc.
This video is excellent. But I have to say, I think it's genuinely better for the storytelling if she's alive. Not just for thematic reasons and for what that tells me about her arc (which I feel makes way more sense than you give it credit for, vs her dying) - the ending feels extremely abrupt if she is dead. There is no mourning time given for the audience, nor for Vi really, for such a major character, and the positive upswing in tone with Vi at the end feels tacked on and hollow. If she's alive though, then the lack of emotional closure is justifiable - and more than that, is probably ideal. Pair that with Cait looking at the vents and the final shot of the blimp, and I think the ending sequence just makes significantly less sense and fumbles its tone completely if she's supposed to be dead. Whereas it makes complete sense and is effective if she's alive - or, if at least, we are supposed to suspect that she's alive. It also is still pretty tragic if she's alive - she's still having to inflict major trauma on her sister and lie about it, and abandon everything she knew, just to break the cycle. But there's just a silver lining to it. It's not a full-on happy ending if she's alive, there's so much baggage with it still. She can never fully heal. She can just do what she can to move on.
16:47 I personally perceives this "sacrifice" as more of a final goodbye to her father. Allowing HIM a warm embrace before "death". A way to both save Vi & allowing herself the last step of grieving before moving away
11:11 even if jinx didn't jump away from the explosion, she still needs fast speed to land somewhere, and/or spend that reaction time to process what happened
Honestly, the way I see it, Jinx's old life is dead. She's escaping, she's getting away from everything, she's moving somewhere new, she's starting over (hopefully with Ekko too lmao) She's a new person now So, in my opinion, literally speaking, she did survive. And now she's living
Usually when a character dies and revives it is a bad thing because it makes the plot lose meaning, since death stops having weight. But in this case the fact of not being able to die can in itself be a blessing and a curse, for not being able to rest and having to deal with the karma of their past actions while restarting a new life. At the same time, she is "dead" for piltover , that would allow vi and katlin to have their romance with no hard feelings, and would be easier to bring peace between the two cities (in the past silco and jayce didn't agree on peace because of jinx) but I am sure that she will be back to help with her chaotic power at some point in the future.
Regarding how scary dying alone is and how the narrative portrays that:
There's something about *Jinx and Vander* and *Jayce and Viktor* going off into the *light or darkness* in *pairs* with someone they *love* , making it *easier* and less scary for the suicidal characters to be held into oblivion.
If Jinx could go knowing she was a good sister, Jayce and Viktor could go knowing they became who they needed to be. In the pursuit of great, they "failed to do good," but here they did good by their city and by each other. Who Jinx is is fundamentally right, and there is *beauty in imperfections* .
Jinx and Viktor both started the episode unkillable. And ostensibly unreachable, disconnected from their loved ones. Personified chaos doomed to dreamless solitude. But then they weren't.
That happened a lot, actually; Jayce was lost to the Arcane, then he came back. Vi was lost in the pits, but she came back-- Out of commitment or connection to someone. So it makes sense everyone would be there for each other in the end.
Any of them could have died alone, and had felt alone for so long, but they were *inextricably bound by love* . Chosen, known, seen. I think the narrative parallels are intentional, handling the end with care and warmth. Holding on while it all goes away on either side of the coin.
It's the same picture, always has been.
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Achingly beautiful comment
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The full "Wasteland" song actually changes the lyrics to be hopeful and happy at the end. They never show that last part in the show though.
More evidence that points both ways!
I think they don't show the last part because "don't let me go" doesn't fit with Vi having to let go Jinx. Vi has to believe Jinx died, so we get this from her POV, she has to move on for Jinx to move on too
@@gewreid5946no need to evidence. Cheapest intrigue I saw so far. Jinx defenetly alive. Sad that arcane became this.
@alexelion7084 I think they could have played it when Ekko convinced her to not ☠️ herself
I mean the song is in the show and that part is. Like I've heard it echo in the background and I definitely heard the line don't let me go. So ya know.
To me, the pink streak is the least compelling argument for Jinx's fate.
Cait having a piece of the grenade while looking at the schematics for the Hexgate vents is the most compelling argument for Jinx's fate.
I agree, the streak could mean nothing. Cait zooming in on the air ducts and holding the monkey head?? There is no other reason for that lol
I completely agree. It's something that's very deliberately in the story for a reason. You don't put those doubts in your audience to just say, nope she's dead. If the intent was that shes dead would not reference the chance of escape in the way they did. Especially in a work of animation.
If this was real life I’d agree, but since this is animated I think the pink streak is important and compelling, because if there was no reason for the pink streak, they wouldn’t put it in there. Since it’s there it almost 100% means something, and the most probable meaning is her escaping
Exactly
@@jtreview7506 the pink streak is so subtle that it could just be a part of the effects, but I agree with you
Personal opinion for 7:20, I don't think that's Jinx's memory. In the scene, Jinx is already asleep. The character who is always in shot, moving about the room, and finally blowing out the candle is Vander. He is the one having his one last beautiful moment with his children before he goes.
You're so right, I think this is something a lot of people have overlooked, me included, that is not really a Jinx/Powder scene but a Vander one.
His actions are the ones directing the scene, the focus, the emotions.
Besides, why would it symbolize Jinx/Powder death if both her and Vi are asleep?
This makes more sense as Vander's soul finally resting and saying goodbye to his daughters.
Omg this would also bolster the idea that Vander played some part in helping Jinx live through the explosion, even if he didn’t move to save her. He could stay dead by curling around her to protect her with his “ascended” body, half awake for the last time. 😭
Okay, but I feel like that would undermine the whole Vander's identity being truly gone thing. Maybe it's not the memory of either character? Again it does fit with the lyrics of the song at that moment.
wasnt vander already gone? at least mentally
@@nathcurie4250 DAMN! You're right!
I think you missed on the soundtrack argument. The lyrics of the song ends in the first verse as "please let me go". But in the second verse the lyrics change, the last lyrics of the song are "Don't let me go." The song is not expressing acceptance of death, it's depicting a cycle of pushing people away when you need help the most.
I agree but the counter argument would be that she's saying that to Vander so even if she changes her mind last minute, she can't escape
We never hear the optimistic verse in the show. I wish they used it in the end credits instead of nothing. The verse we hear is still Suicide Jinx and "Please let me go" when we're looking down the shaft.
@jenmiranda13 I don't think the metaphor is meant to be that direct. In relation to Jinx I think it's expressing her feelings that all she wants is the people loves (vi, vander, ekko, silco) to care for her and be there for her. But she knows that she always hurts the people around her so she pushes them away, when she partially recognizes that it's really only the people she loves that gives her anything to live for. The lyrics are kinda conflicting because her feelings are in conflict.
@@quigsthevicious that's true, I've been listening to the full song a lot so maybe cutting it off there was intentional.
This this this
I personally think it would be better if she lived, but left and completely dropped the identity of jinx AND powder. She does die to everyone, but she literally makes something new. It doesn’t undermine it because she really does break the cycle, leave everything behind, and get the metaphorical death she wanted, while beginning again and forging a new path. I would love to see her in a future show as some random side character, maybe an engineer or artist on the street living a casual life, and not doing anything important. Maybe even helping some kids out in an inventor’s competition. Giving her an arc similar to himerdinger. At least that’s my head cannon, and what I think is best for the story.
I agree. Personally I head cannon that she goes back to calling herself Powder but without the baggage attached to it (mainly because I can't come up with a third name and Powder is the more neutral one, just from the word itself). I also think Ekko is the only person from her old life she could reconnect with without slipping back into old roles. Maybe she could even have a relationship with Vi again at some point, but that would need a lot of time, she'd have to have a stable new identity by then
@@alexelion7084maybe her new name could be Isha
@@ziasteele9332 Maybe, yeah. It might be a bad memory to her, so I don't know if she'd choose that name, but it would make a lot of sense otherwise
@@alexelion7084 She quite literally re-aligns with powder when she gets on that airship. So ya Jinx did die no matter how you want to think about it. But Powder lived on, breaking the cycle.
10/10 writing.
"I would love to see her in a future show" ... yeah, that is why people went looking for evidence that she might be alive 🙂.
Most people that WANT her to be alive are commenting with an entire list of reasons that she MUST be alive, even though that list only exists because people went looking for interpretations that match what they want to be true. There is a similar list of reasons she might actually be dead, but if you don't want to believe that to be true, you'll likely ignore those reasons.
The main question for me was the same as what Schnee is telling: what works best for the story ?
I haven't seen a single person reacting to the last episode for the first time (and no prior knowledge) that didn't think she was dead at the end.
Maybe there's a reason (=the story) most people thought that at the end ...
I think Jinx can be alive without the sacrifice itself being undermined; the series has always been careful in how it handles representation imo, especially with grief and trauma. I do not think they’d take all that care in representation only to have the mentally ill character kill herself, regardless of weather her death is a sacrifice or not. I think Jinx the IDENTITY died, not Jinx the character. If jinx died, the message essentially becomes “Shes TOO broken, she has to die” but if she lives, makes something new, there’s room for her to heal. While it is sad that she has to heal away from her loved ones, Zaun and Piltover are too connected to everything, she has to walk away.
Wether Jinx throws her life away or sacrifices it meaningfully DOES make a difference though.
Also it exemplifies that not wanting to live is something you can't just talk someone out of in one moment and then have it be good forever. It is a question that keeps coming back up again and again as long as there is reasons to.
Which is also realistic and good representation.
Agreed. Her dying undermines her entire character imo and doesn't make sense with where s2 takes her character. We see her happy, for a bit she's in a better place than Vi. Why show us that she has the capacity to be happy, then kill it in a way that's not directly Jinx's fault if the only way for her story to conclude is her death?
Agreed. This builds on both the "build something new" and "breaking the cycle" motifs introduced in S2.
It's also a way for the writers to get around her "main character invulnerability" from being popular irl.
@@gewreid5946yes but as we’ll see in his come play video. Jinx rallied the undercity, she would have seen offscreen that her statement to Vi is wrong and that “there is a good version of her.” Was incorrect because she does good for her people as they have someone to rally behind.
We saw in Stillwater what that effect being seen as a “big fat hero” had on her. so yes Ekko talking to her about an AU wouldn’t make her survive.
Her seeing her city rally behind her (which we have heavy evidence of), waiting for her smoke bombs to launch the attack. The firelights her old enemies wearing her spray paint in support and accepting her into their group. That would have done something and I think her dying cheapens that more than her dying cheapens her saving Vi. Her whole intro is waving the revolutionary flag at the start of each episode.
This is the fundamental issue with S2 a lot of major character moments happen offscreen. This included.
Yup, Jinx's character arc in S2 is one of self-discovery: she needs to understand who she is. The end of S1 we see her adopting the identity of Jinx definitely, but S2 events make her question that.
The Stillwater prisoner breakout happens for selfish "Jinx" purposes - she's really trying to save Isha - and the "big fat hero" is 100% said in jest, but the prisoners in silence touching her show her something else: she can be Jinx _and_ be a big fat hero. They accept her for who she is in her entirety, same as Isha does and, later on, Ekko and Vi.
That's the central point of her jail cell monologue-conversation with her projected Silco, a figment of her own internal dialog: Jinx as an evil person is a prison of her own creation, it's something she (and the circumstances surrounding her) imposes on herself. She doesn't need to be that.
But for her to be free of that prison, she has to walk away, because these circumstances will keep expecting her to be _that_ Jinx.
I personally prefer her staying alive from the perspective of what Ekko taught her. It is still a powerful message of starting something new and is tragic in its own way since it comes with the pain of leaving behind everything you loved.
I agree, also Jinx walking away has been pitched multiple times as well. The biggest tragedy of walking away from loved ones because it doesn't work out is simply knowing it doesn't work out. Even if you love them and want to be near them. It just turns into fights and danger to yourself. You have to let go and walk away and take the knowledge with you that you tried everything and nothing worked.
It's an acceptance of something definite.
My headcanon is that Ekko also told her about AU Powder and that she realizes there IS a good version of her out there. Giving her a reason to keep living.
@@celloishsugoithis is actually canon! In a q&a livestream with Christian Linke he confirms Ekko told her abt the alternative universe and that there is a good version of herself that is attainable
100% agree. Ekko getting to talk with her probably helped he deal with a lot and allowed her to shift the perspective of needing to die.. to just needing to walk away.
considering the context that the conversations with the various characters she has over the course of episodes 6, 8, and 9 it's just as viable to say that sacrificing herself is a means of building a new life for Vi (the person she cares about) with Caitlin. Ekko says at the beginning of episode 9 (paraphrasing) "You can build something new, something for the people you care about".
"Even when we are worlds apart.." This quote from Jinx is what clued me in on why she would be alive. I doubt she needed to remind Vi of their circumstances while confronting Vander - she knew exactly what to say to her, as if everything was already planned in this finale. (Not the self sacrificing but what Jinx plan to do onwards, which was leaving Vi so she could live her life without the burden of Powder/Jinx)
I disagree. I think Jinx living makes the story significantly better because it fits her arc much more. Here’s why:
- Ep7 shows us a possible version of healthy Powder. And it’s not like AU Powder didn’t have hardship in her life, she lost her sister, arguably at her own hands. But we see that it is possible for Jinx/Powder to come to terms with the demons of the past. Jinx dying in the OG universe would drain all meaning from that, and instead tell a story of misery, where it is possible to be irredeemable/broken to the point where death is the only answer.
- To the same point, AU Powder’s conflict revolves around “filling her own cup”, not just other’s. So Jinx choosing to sacrifice herself for Vi’s happiness also leaves this arc unresolved.
- I would also argue, that when Ekko convinced Jinx to “build something new”, she didn’t take it as “lay your life down to do it”. After all, she was already trying to kill herself for that _exact_ reason - to let Vi and Caitlyn be happy together. So her doing the same thing in a different form invalidates Ekko’s scene as well.
- The song “Wasteland” that plays during Jinx suicide scenes, only starts with “Please let me go”. Give it a full listen, it ends with:
“I’m not ready to face it
Don’t go saying goodbye
There’s a beauty in changes
And I wanna try
*Don’t* let me go”
Finally, I will say, there’s nothing that says that Jinx’s story *has* to be a tragedy. If anything, tragedy makes it too simple, too straightforward. For me, Arcane is not a story about tragic fate of Jinx & Vi or Piltover & Zaun, at least not the second season. It is a story of second chances and of sacrifice that it takes get them - the impossibility to “pretend like it’s the first time”. Every character gives up something to move forward: Caitlyn her vision (in both senses of the word), Victor his evolution, Jayce his scientific progress, Heimerdinger his fears, Ekko his chance for “what could have been”. As for Jinx, she has to sacrifice her past to move on. But her death would rob her of a second chance, it’s a sacrifice without a sacrifice. Sacrifice is a painful but beautiful answer to the question “how do I live on?”, but sacrificing her life defeats the point.
Perfect summary.
My personal headcanon is that she's going to become bffs with Lux and is fighting injustice and oppression to honor Ishas sacrifice.
@@corinschweigert2715 I think that wouldn't fit her. If someone wants to start a new life and stay undercover it's definitely Bilgewater.
FUCKING THANK YOU
One thing I'd like to add on what you said, is that this story is not only about giving Jinx control over her own death, it's also about giving her opportunities to start healing from her trauma. Killing Silco was a try, to remove this figure that kept the ptsd so alive, but failed because she was too attached to him and it led her to depression. Having Isha was another try, to offer something positive in her life, but failed because influencing another person while having not dealt with your own trauma only leads to perpetuating you own self-destructive persona in them. And finally, to get away before the explosion is potentially the last and best try : if you want to heal from your trauma, you first need to get away from everything that reminds you of it - Piltover, Zaun, and Vi.
Tldr :
- She dies = she can finally get the perfect death that would fit with her
- She lives (and gets away from this place and from Vi) = she can finally start to heal her trauma
well sayed
"The cycle ends only when you find the will to walk away"
"its never too late to build something new"
silcos speech is about how identities constrain and imprison
my take - Jinx (the identity) is dead. Jinx the person will become someone new, away from Vi and Ekko and Piltover and Zaun.
This imo fulfills both the idea of the death arc and the life arc.
This is obviously it. I dont know how this guy thinks after seeing jinx turn to suicide already think that she genuinely killed herself at the end rather than make an effort to escape her identity and labels and reinvent herself. Its honestly pretty obvious..
Like Season 1 had a hero arc and a villain arc
yasuo wandering into a random cave in ionia and meeting a blue-haired, pink-eyed weirdo:
I totally agree. Her deciding not to kill herself is the biggest arc. It reinforces the inclusion of all the hints we got that she is alive and why she is as well.
Plus, Jinx is such a money-printer for RIOT they can't kill her just as they start to expand the animation universe. The only real continuation of her story is in a new place and a new life. Timebomb expansion could happen, but there's only like 1 episode worth of stuff to cover without dragging it out. Same with Ekko/Jinx edited scenes between suicide and airship entrance in episode 9.
And when you think about it, that's Jinx mind telling her that, that's what she lowkey believes in.
I like to think she didn’t die, she had to “leave something behind” being the past, including Vi, in order to “build something new”
personally I hate the "suicidal person manages to kill themselves by dying as a hero" trope so much that I can't accept that Jinx is dead.
I believe she broke the cycle by walking away and that she is currently travelling all of Runeterra, finally breaking free of all the roles the people around her have placed onto her (sister, daughter, symbol, monster etc.) to finally just live for herself for once before she eventually returns to Zaun in a few years to (maybe) reconnect with Vi.
I wouldn't really call it a suicide, there was nothing she could do expect from falling + warwick being a threat. She just chose how to die
@@ジハ-u5k uh did you miss that she is suicidal and tried to kill herself several times before?? She still managed to kill herself, just via saving someone else. That is still a suicidal Jinx dying by blowing herself up, just with Warwick this time.
@@marbleb33s no i did not miss the fact that jinx was suicidal the entire series. I just view the last scene a little bit differently
@@marbleb33s when she tried to kill herself it was so that she didn't have the strength to go on. When Ekko beat her up on the bridge when Isha died those were just such strong moments that forced her to do it but! when she tried to blow herself up Ekko stopped her and said a sentence to which she reacted so there it means that she let herself be told she has a point to go on it's Ekko
Yeah, that trope can be kinda harmful if taken the wrong way by a viewer. Like, "oh yeah they ended up doing the thing the story and characters have been telling them not to do BUT now it isn't selfish and meaningless" BRO WHAT?? That's awful! Especially because Jinx thought the only way to break the cycle of violence was to die, only for the story to say "NO, don't do it! you can restart! Build something good!" And then have her kill herself to break the cycle anyway?? It doesn't make sense to me. Jinx's story arc of breaking the cycle resonated with me (and probably many more) And while either way she did break the cycle. One way is just so much more depressing and cynical. I cried like a baby when Jinx "died" but I was also really upset and I hated the ending until I noticed the hints that she may be alive. Although I think it's fine for it to remain ambiguous, you believe what you want for your own reasons.
I was pretty convinced she was dead until I rewatched the final arc, and her interaction with Silco in the jail tipped me over to believing she's alive.
He says "I thought I could break free by eliminating those I deemed my jailors" - Jinx is her own jailor. She doesn't believe she can change her story , she's always destined to be a 'jinx'. (At least that's my take on her). Jinx killing herself, is her eliminating her jailors.
However he follows that with "But, Jinx... I think the cycle only ends when you find the will to walk away" - Which is what she does. She lives, and walks away from Piltover, Zaun, and everything she has there, on the airship that she said she was going to ride on.
I've not seen anyone else notice or mention this, so I thought I'd throw it out there as my 2 cents on the matter. This combined with the other evidence that people have mentioned of her being alive convinced me. Do I think we'll see her again? Personally no. But I do believe she lived.
Ye that’s what I’ve been saying, just feels so poetic that Jinx finally breaks the cycle of pain AND gets to live on in (hopefully) less/no pain so that it is truly broken.
Her, Ekko and Isha r gonna love that trip to disneyland
she is 100% alive and writers basically confirmed this when they said that " well we dont know if Jinx is dead or alive" ...I think that was the whole point , they wanted to leave both options open, if you wanted her to die then she could just as easily be dead cause we never see her again but then we have enough clues that if you want her to be alive she can be alive aswell , new Jinx skin has voiceline where she says " oh you walked right past me in bilgewater" and honestly I can see Jinx going there , other than Zaun, Bilgewater is literally perfect place for her
We'll probably see her again, but not anytime soon.
If we do see her again, it will probably be in demacia, since in every universe, she becomes good friends with the character Lux.
@@Thorbells lets see i dont really know but i knoe he is alive
You forgot the end screen in Jinx' handwriting. She decides to end the story there. She is the author now. And for that she would need to be alive.
Brilliant way to put it!
Or is just an artistic choice made by The writers . They have done stuff like that The entire show
@@pablox2139 probably no. They ALWAYS end episodes with just black screen. But here they give statics with the end writing.
@darklord4531 Jinx can't write her own story and never did, she can only write its ending. She chose how to die, she chose her ending. The scribbled message only reinforces by letting her write the ending.
It was intentional and it isn't a message that says she lives, it's a 4th wall break by the writers calling out to this being *her* ending.
@@bkm8556 I think that's a strong possibility. She decided her end and it could be a reference to that.
I personally believe that this symbolizes Jinx dying, but rebirth and going to do her own thing in a faraway life. (similar to how in your last video you talked about ekko telling her to build something new)
Yeah I felt like this was putting Vander to rest for Vi, letting her past self “die” - forgiving herself.
Agreed, and it is also a sacrifice in a way. Since she is leaving Ecko and Vi behind, and even if we didn't see it the writers did plan on Jinx and Ecko reconciling and sort of getting together. But Jinx knows Vi will never live her own life if she's around and there is no way for Vi to have both Cait and Jinx. Jinx also still has a lot of work to do to mentally and can't do that from prison, so it 's best to just walk away and start over somewhere else. It's not really a happy ending, just a chance to be happy later.
Ahri is becoming a Billionaire Therapist thanks to her new client
I personally think its better narratively for her to survive. She has been suicidal for most of the season, until Ekko saved her and gave her the tools to rebuild herself. She needs a clean cut from her previous life to achieve that, so faking her death makes the most sense.
so well said!
I hate "redeemed villain makes a sacrifice at the end" stories, so the prospect that Jinx survived is greatly appealing to me.
This is one of those where I feel like I disagree with too many things.
I don't think the story is better if she dies. If she lives, it hammers home Ekko's point of building something new even more. Jinx builds a new life and she can now do it somewhere she won't be affected by her old life. So it would also hammer home the: "Sometimes taking a leap forward means leaving a few things behind."
The only way I can accept Jinx's death as a better story, is if you mean that her persona of Jinx died, and she left anything that made her Jinx behind in order to build a new life.
While I also see that sleep and death is often connected. See Thanatos and Hypnos in Greek mythology - Death and Sleep as twin brothers. BUT! It is also important to note that death is not always as straight forward a symbol. Sometimes death is just the death of the status quo, and is therefore the sign of a new beginning. She may be able to rest now, but not because she's dead, but because she left behind a life of constant struggle, misery and loss.
I realize that keeping her alive to use the character later is probably a big reason for corporations to do this. But if we see her just in the background, just vibing, thriving and being at ease. In other words: Resting. That would be a much better story than the overdone tired and, frankly, potentially dangerous trope of suicide idolisation.
I'd actually argue the soundtrack is indicating she survives. The lyrics portray her internal struggle with wanting to die, at the beginning it says "please let me go" and at the very end it says "don't let me go". Also at the end there is the lines "There's a beauty in changes, and I wanna try" also implying that Jinx is looking to change more than die towards the end.
Obviously the whole scene where she "dies" is communicating quite strongly to the audience that she does die, but I interpret it as a metaphorical death. Just like Powder "died" and Jinx took over after she was adopted by Silko, I feel like this scene shows Jinx "dying" and maybe Powder coming back but I think much more something else, Powder and Jinx are left in the past, left in Piltover/Zaun and the new Jinx or whatever the name would be leaves that behind and embraces change as heard in the soundtrack and as seen when she supposedly flies away in the airship.
7:09
If you said previously that Jinx is a narrative, maybe death "falling asleep" is a narrative too. She is alive but she is putting the narrative of Jinx *and* Powder to death. She died but is letting the memory of the good in her life, the narrative of happiness, live through Vi. The point isn't living or dying but leaving her jail cell and freeing others from their jail cells. The heart of the story was the sisters and the heart of their story was moving forward. Not only for Jinx but Vi too.
Building something new always meant letting the old fade or die. Let it exist in the past. Memory is a jail cell if there is no room for the future. Like how Vi is in jail but also in the jail of her mind because of Powder.
She is finally leaving the mindset of her life as a narrative for others to write.
Vi is being Violet finally.
My words may sound jumbled but i hope i got my message across
Very well articulated! Thank you for sharing this idea!
Wow you're so right thank you for your insight! First time we see Vi is in her prison cell and at the end sitting freed (from Jinx) at the fireplace.
In one of her season 2 interviews amanda overton said that right from the outset of writing arcane they had the first & last scene in their heads & it hasn't ever shifted. I can't imagine a meaningless airship just drifting off into the distance would have been their ideal ending! It surely has to mean something relevant & the only relevant thing it could be is a reference to powder's words in the opening scene of episode 1. Jinx lives!
The main reason I prefer Jinx surviving from a storytelling perspective is that her saving Vi by taking Warwick down with her felt really contrived already. Honestly I wasn't the biggest fan of Warwick surviving in general after he was used to "evolve" Viktor, or rather how the show used him after that point, because it didn't really add anything to his or the sister's character arcs. He was just their obstacle to overcome for the final battle.
So Vi being unable to leave him to die there, while in character for her, already required so much convenient setup to arrive at that point. This lead to me not really feeling the weight of Jinx' sacrifice, she just bailed out her sister for a stupid mistake and paid with her live? After just gaining the conviction to keep living as well? The entire scene just didn't feel earned to me, so the subversion of Jinx surviving and actually leaving her past behind with one final gesture of goodwill towards Vi is way more satisfying in my eyes. Your idea of Warwick using his last strength to save her is also a cool idea, but I prefer the idea of Jinx actually wanting to live from the beginning.
That's exactly what my experience was after watching the scene. At first i was super disappointed at what I thought was a supper contrived ending. But a few moments later, I realized what had actually happened.
I love tragedies, but Jinx's story in season 2 is not a tragedy. I think season 1 was the tragedy.
It's also her taking mercy on her adoptive father and killing him, as she knew Vi would never be able to do, which brings his arc to a close at the hands of Jinx. "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter," indeed. Silco and Vander both being finally killed by Jinx as she continues to decide her own journey is the perfect ending to their parallel stories.
I also felt like it was narratively weird until I saw the pink streak and the airship. The entire message about learning from our mistakes and moving forward with hope in our futures (which was stated by many characters in many ways this season) would have rung hollow.
ngl suggesting that Jinx should have died because it would be the best narrative is a rare miss for you, Schnee. Jinx believing that she is destined to destroy everything and then die is not her story, it's the *lie* she believes and needs to unlearn. (Pretty sure "the lie the character believes" is something I got from you.)
The fact that she keeps trying to die and failing at it is the pattern which proves that was never her destiny, just like being a jinx was a mindset placed on her by the psychologically abusive people in her life: Mylo, Vi, and Silco. Mylo hated her (insofar as a child can hate), Vi was careless with a child she knew was emotionally fragile, and Silco foisted his own trauma and internalized lies (which he managed to dispel in the alternate universe) onto her to suit his own ends.
So many people keep trying to tell Jinx to live, despite her negative self-image. Vi apologized time after time, saying Jinx can rewrite her story, regardless of how much they hurt each other. Isha sacrificed herself not just to emulate Jinx but to ensure she survives, because *that's* the version of Jinx she knows, the one who saves people. Sevika pushed Jinx to shed her nihilism and embrace community. Caitlyn professed how fruitless hatred, and by extension self-hatred, are as a life style. Ekko went out of his way to convince her that there is always the potential to grow and change.
The Silco who tells Jinx to break the cycle and walk away is a figment of her own mental illness, an in-universe unreliable narrator, not to be trusted. Jinx says "there's no good version of me," when Ekko and the audience literally know that's false. And the writers have said that the central theme of Arcane is the awakening of new power and possibilities in the world of Runeterra. "Woe is me, and now I die" is a terrible message to send, not just because it's irresponsible, or because it would be bad for the brand, but also because it runs contrary to that theme.
Not only *did* Jinx live, it's *better* that she did.
Her dying just doesn't make sense considering she finally seemed to find the will to live, to build something new for someone. It's why she decided to help during the last fight.
To kill a character as soon as they gain the will to live again seems awful even if they are a tragic character.
I personally wouldn’t say she gained the will to live. Yes, someone can pull you off the ledge, but you can still push yourself off of a balcony.
What I’m trying to say is is that, Jinx’s sacrifice (whether dead or alive) still comes from a place where she doesn’t see her own value.
Maybe if she’s alive, she’s looking for reasons to stay that way. Like look for meaning. But if she’s dead, it’s still because she wants to break the cycle.
All of these options mean she gets to break the cycle.
I’m not sure if that means she has some will to live.
I think having the will to leave and breaking cycle aren’t necessarily the same thing.
@ritikamudabidri7680 Breaking the cycle through death is shown to be misunderstood by Jinx, the lesson here isn't that the only way to 'walk away' is through sacrifice. Even after Silco and Vander died that cycle continued.
If Ekko's words didn't help Jinx regain the will to live why did she join the final fight?
Her final act isn't because of low self worth but due to love for her sister. She saw that Vi was unable to let go of Vander to the point where it posed a risk to her life, and she took it upon herself to save her.
I'm usually a fan of your takes, but I think you dropped the ball on this one.
Outside of a narrative where a character seeks redemption, there is no beauty to dying tragically as a hero. This is a hollow and overdone trope. Arcane's writers truly honor "tragedy" as something terrible to experience. They never glamorize it. Your take with Jinx sacrificing herself so that everyone can have a happy ending does the opposite; it glamorizes death in a way that feels so fundamentally far from how Arcane tells stories.
Jinx wants to be a hero to the people she loves. We infer as much from her relationship with Isha, her reaction to the Zaunites thanking her, as well as her actions as Powder when she tried to save Vi and Vander. Despite her failings, heroism is in her nature. Now, we can argue that her final heroic deed is sacrificing herself for good so that her sister can live a happy life, but this is poor storytelling, and fundamentally misunderstands what it means to be a hero and a protagonist at that.
What makes a true hero is the ability to pick yourself up from the shattered remains of your past and find the strength to carry on. This is something we witness Jinx struggle with all throughout the season. She cannot find a reason to live, not until she develops a relationship with Isha. When she loses Isha she loses that reason again, and that is where she is really tested as a character and as a hero. Can she find the courage to keep living? To "take a step forward if it means leaving some things behind"? If we are to examine Powder from the AU, we see that, yes, she CAN do it. That character's arc ends with Powder taking a step forward, so why can't our Jinx do the same? They are parallel, and despite how dire things are for Jinx in our reality, I think it is far more beautiful if she too decides to take a step forward and embrace life.
Beautifully said
Absolutely right.
I agree, I was very disappointed to hear that Schnee thinks her death makes for a better story. To have Jinx die would actually undermine the story.
I don't think it's one of the "words of god" as schnee puts it. It would just be a bad story.
This might be the first time I disagree with Schnee. Not necessarily the fact whether she lives or dies, but his argument that her death is better for her story. I actually feel the complete opposite, and during my first watch, when I thought she DID die, I felt pretty unsatisfied. Like, past the sadness of a character dying, I felt unfulfilled by the story.
Only after rewatch and discussion where there were clues that she lived did I start to get it a little more. Jinx choosing to die undermines the climax of her arc. Throughout the entire show she thinks she's bad for her loved ones, until the end when Ekko convinces here there IS a good version of her. And the entire point of the show is there is no Jinx vs Powder. She is who she is, whether be molded from tragedy or support. Silco(Jinx) quite literally says that preconceived narratives are a prison, and you must CHOOSE to break free. Unfortunately Jinx drew the wrong conclusion from Silco(her subconscious) and thinks death is the solution. Until Ekko arrives to correct the conclusion. Ekko, through his own journey, realizes that Jinx and Powder are the same person. That he should never have given up on Jinx, because he would have never given up on Powder. Don't die, don't give up. Break free of the past, and keep marching on, keep building something new. The last hopeful verse of Wasteland directly parallels Jinx's arc. "If it weren't for you, I'd be here all alone. I know in my heart this is where we belong, the world is a wasteland, DON'T let me go."
Okay, but we don't want to cheapen the narrative. We don't want to have our cake and eat it too. But the tragedy in this case isn't Jinx's own narrative in a vacuum (though it is tragic). The tragedy is the relationship between the two sisters. They can both live, but they can't be together. Vi will never put her own happiness first if Jinx still lives. Jinx will always feel guilt if she's close to Vi. So why not explicitly show Jinx living? I think this is a narrative trick. The writers wanted to maximize the emotion of the scenario. They wanted us to feel what Vi is feeling. If you show a scene of Jinx escaping, you break that empathy with Vi. It sucks out the impact of her (fake?) sacrifice for Vi. For me (and this is the beauty of the show, every one has valid interpretations of it), the essence of Arcane is the relationship between Vi and Jinx. It's turbulent, it's harmonious, dissonant, dynamic. It's the most fleshed out dichotomy in a show of dichotomies. And it doesn't end harmoniously. It ends with Vi thinking her sister died. Jinx living is still a tragedy because her and Vi can't stay together, at least not for now.
That being said, I still loved your video and the arguments for her death are compelling. I just think Jinx finally dying throws away the last part climactic part of her character arc. I think the argument that her death is better for her story is the sort of trapped thinking that hallucinated Silco argues AGAINST. Your previous "story" doesn't matter, it's a prison, it's made up rules. Go out and be something different. Dying is uninteresting because you're just checking a box in a predetermined cycle.
You absolutely nailed this analysis. Agreed 100%
Well said!!
YES! Say it louder!
Really well said.
Jesus christ this person can write
I'm not gonna lie, but having the character who's been trying to kill herself this entire time finish her arc by being told she can choose to leave her trauma behind and build something new, so she seemingly successfully kills herself doesn't sit right with me. Whether she survived or not, the fact that she doesn't clearly choose that (ie that we don't know) is a horrible concept to put out imo.
I've imagined a separate version of this scene in my head where she fakes her death to Vi by throwing the grenade upwards, but uses either the glove or the explosion itself to escape, letting Vi grieve her sister's death but move on from it and stop trying to save or protect her, leaving in the blimp to build something new with Ekko, whatever that would be.
I think the conclusion of her being dead being the best way to end her story is tunnel visioning a bit to heavily onto the tragic aspects of her story, at the expense of how Arcane treats Jinx symbolically in the 2nd season. Jinx IS Zaun, she's a living embodiment of every aspect of the city and is constantly used to represent it in so many ways throughout the story. Zaun is "The monster Piltover created", as Jinx strikes back in vengeance. In doing so she becomes the symbol that's able to unite the Undercity despite their vast differences. In Ekko's story in the AU, him falling back in love with Powder is a tool to show him falling back in love with Zaun as a whole, not just the part he wants to interact with. Which directly leads to him saving her/Zaun!
She is 100% alive because Zaun is still alive, and her leaving directly ties into what's happening with Zaun at the end. Striking out towards a new future, but one full of uncertainty and hostility, not to mention one that's not being realistic with its goals. Sure Sevika is on the council, but she's outnumbered 6-1 and I don't see those 6 being very gracious towards her. She's trying to embody being Zaun by being more like Piltover, and that's not going to work. Jinx is setting out to find herself, but you can't just chop off your past and pretend it no longer exists. You often need to get away from it to understand it, to deal with it, but ultimately it still controls you until you can come back and confront it. Zaun has "died" in a spiritual and political sense, and it needs to find its way before it can "live" again.
I think both Jinx and Zaun are going to develop in similar ways. They're going to try to conform to what society deems a better vision of what they can be, but in doing so they're going to be denying certain elements of who they are. Zaun on the council is still subservient to Piltover, Jinx cannot deny the embodiment of chaos that she is. They'll both realize this isn't working, be forced to fully accept what they are but do so in a more deliberate, not-blowing-up-the-council way, and that is when Zaun will be able to fully embrace its independence. And I imagine that'll coincide with whenever Jinx comes home, the Heart of Zaun returning itself to the city.
As for where she goes, my bets on Bilgewater. Illaoi's cult based on change is tailor made for this sort of story about finding self-acceptance, I'd bet money that's the next step. I also think it will be Heimerdinger (Also 100% not dead) who ultimately finds her and brings her home. He's seen all the good aspects of the AU Powder and possesses none of the emotional baggage Ekko has, he's perfectly set up to mentor her and bring out that good version that he also knows she can be. The founder of Piltover will help heal the heart of Zaun, helping to make up for his own mistakes in the process.
I'll go a step further into crazy town, there's an extremely popular and hilarious invention of Heimerdinger's in League's lore called the T-Hex, which is quite literally a mechanical weaponized Tyrannosaurus that Heimerdinger pilots. Now, I can't see the Heimerdinger we know in Arcane ever making that, not a chance. But a Heimerdinger with Jinx as his pupil? Affecting him in the same way Ekko showed Heimer how to live for the present?
Mark my words, that dynamic duo is going to crash a future Piltover vs. Zaun civil war with a mech the pair have created and it will glorious!
Okay, this is actually really good, I've been headcanoning her meeting Illaoi for a while now, it would fit so well!
I'm definitely in the camp of "Jinx, the identity, has died, Powder, or whatever she chooses to be, lives to *make* that choice".
And your idea singlehandedly proves my opinion to be smart and right, so thanks!
Just have to strongly disagree - a character suffering that much and dying is not a release or a victory or a meaningful tragedy, it's just death for death's sake. It's not a redemptive sacrifice. It's not some profound lesson. It's just... bookending because 'that's how the song ends'. I hate it, and I hate the message even more.
To be honest, I hate redemptive sacrifice, too - because it's a shorthand. A cop-out. A fairy tale bookend. Living is better story because living has a FUTURE and living is HARD. Being able to work out a "new Jinx" outside of toxic influences, coming back to demonstrate that change, so many stories yet to tell. Finding a way to LIVE as chaos rather than die and terminate - all better stories.
A "good death" when death isn't truly the only way forward (such as a terminal illness or mortal wound) is just... Poetry at the cost of honesty. It's bedtime stories. And we can be better than that.
Still a great video - I just /hate/ that particular conclusion vibe. Especially because it is a kind of storytelling that directly feeds into ideations among the audience. "See? Death IS the best way." Intended or not.
Totally agree. It seems too plain and simple, compared to the nuance Arcane shows in its storytelling. I believe S2 is about finding ways to move forward despite the tragedy of the world, through loss and sacrifice, but not sacrifice of one’s own life, since that defeats the point of it in the first place.
You know what, you got me with this whole "too simple and fairy-taley for arcane" thing. Nothing in arcane works like that.
Yeah, I always hate when a flawed character is redeemed by sacrificing themselves. Dying is an easy way to tie up a character arc, but watching them live, learn from their mistakes, and make better choices is more rewarding. It's not easy to pull it off, but it's more satisfying in the long run. That's why I believe that Jinx is alive and she will most likely come back in a spin-off series.
As Buffy says, "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it. Be brave. Live." By leaving on the airship, Jinx can have an entire world that functions like Schnee pointed out about Isha - she is going to meet people who don't have all of these pre-existing notions about her and she won't have all that baggage. There is a whole world of good development for her.
I also strongly agree with you about the messaging; telling people with ideation that death really is the best answer is terrible. I want to believe they didn't do that.
For the record, I thought she was really sacrificing herself when I watched it the first time because it made sense for the story. I was bawling as soon as the song came in as she was falling. But I think all of the analysis afterwards has convinced me that she is alive. It is still a satisfying end for all of the reasons you mentioned.
13:20 what about Sevika? They spent like half the season together and she was at least orbitally aware of Jinx during her entire childhood post-The Incident
I like her keeping herself alive from the perspective of the 'ending the cycle' line. She is ending her cycle of violence even against herself. But that's a personal preference.
I feel like the fact that the hints towards her survival exist at all is enough prove, simply because they'd serve no real purpose otherwise, Jinx dying would mean an awful character regression on her part, her being suicidal at her darkest moment, convinced that she's destruction and nothing else, that the only thing she can do is bring harm to those she loves is her being wrong, her being mistaken on what she is and her place in the world, her reaching the wrong conclusion from everything that's happened. Meanwhile, walking away to build something new, walking away to allow those left behind to look towards the future. The best part of that is the ship, because not only would she finally be at the helm, in control of what she does and where she goes but she would also be accepting of her past self instead of discarding it.
Ekko went through so much trouble talking jinx out of killing herself that her dying 20 mins later does not make sense. The whole point of that scene is that she realizes life is worth living,
I believe there is a 4th option that was over looked here. Jinx does survive by using shimmer and dashing/jumping away but the song about falling asleep and her memories of Vander were not for her. They were for Vander she was putting Vander, her father, a beast of suffering to sleep. Jinx dying would be the perfect end, which is why her surviving works all the better with the belief she is dead. Jinx finally gets to protect the people she loves. Not once was she able to do that. Her siblings were killed. Vander was dead turned into a monster, Isha died in front of her. However at the end Jinx could give Vi the life she knew Vi deserved and free Vander, saving him from the mindless creature he's become.
This is where she finds meaning in her life, this is where she learns why everyone in Zaun and Isha saw her as a hero a protecter. She let's Piltover, Zuan, and Vi believe she's dead. Cat doesn't believe this she know Jinx better than that. However she stays silent knowing it's Jinx last wish to release the city of her. Vi and Cat are there they will protect and grow the cities now. Jinx is off to distant lands of runeterra to free others...
Something along those lines I rambling a bit and I'm at work so this was rushed 😂😅
I just. how is it a satisfying, beautiful character arc if a suicidal person finally finds an excuse to feel good about dying? what is compelling about vi essentially going through the exact same trauma from episode 3? this isn't gonna allow vi to move on, it's going to break her further.
I think a lot of the rest of the comments have talked about why for her character specifically it actually does make a better story if she lives but she lets her Jinx persona and past life die. But I think it also elevates the themes of the second season. We’re shown that even though *this* story that’s unfolding throughout the season is a tragedy, it doesn’t *have* to be. There’s the possibility for redemption, forgiveness, turnaround, and building new things, even though we haven’t seen it in the main universe yet. The ending of the hex-tech plot *was* the aversion of the most tragic ending. Given all of that, and Jinx being in a suicidal spiral, her leaving to “break the cycle” and build a new peaceful life where she isn’t important is much more fitting to the hopeful themes sown through the second season.
I also just in general think that there’s much more power in hopeful stories than in tragedies. One invites you to wallow in sorrow, or motivates you to change based on the story out of fear, while the other inspires and invites acts of goodness by showing that they do make a difference.
YES
The entire second season spoke constantly about hope for the future, learning from the past, and believing in the possibility that things can be different. I also believe that since the first season is one of the best tragedies I've witnessed, for multiple characters, having them all show different ways they can grow from that tragedy (even if still hurt by it) in the second season is really vital to the narrative themes.
Jinx’s character is fundamentally about conflict : between Powder and Jinx, innocence and chaos, love and alienation. Her death wouldn’t resolve this struggle; it would simply silence a voice still full of contradictions and possibilities. Her survival reflects the idea that some wounds never fully heal but don’t necessarily lead to definitive ends. Keeping Jinx alive aligns with the themes of ambiguity and unresolved tension that make her character so powerful. It suggests that even in the depths of chaos, there’s still room for hope, complexity, and continued growth and seems more logical with what Ekko said to her.
Having Jinx die, whether as an act of redemption or a dramatic conclusion, risks falling into the familiar trope of the "broken" or unstable character finding resolution through sacrifice. While this might have been a dramatic end, it would have been a disservice to the nuanced storytelling Arcane is known for. Jinx is far more than a tragic figure; she is a complex exploration of trauma, morality, and identity. Keeping her alive subverts expectations and keeps her character open for further exploration, rather than reducing her to a predictable narrative device. I would add it's sending a very bad message : "The only outcome for the broken character is to die".
Keeping Jinx alive doesn’t necessarily mean her story will dominate future narratives, but it does leave room for further exploration of her character. Her survival offers opportunities to delve into questions about her redemption, her self-acceptance, or how she might navigate a world where she’s lost everything.
I don't like Jinx dying in a way that *she* thinks is fitting. Her obsessive need to have her life follow a certain narrative is a toxic pattern. If she doesn't break from it, what was the point of inner Silco telling her not to confine herself to an idea of what she's supposed to be and how things should go?
I think Jinx dies in that explosion symbolically. We know she likes the idea of building something *new,* and to do that you must leave the past behind. She incorporates pink streaks into her hair after the talk with Ekko, and what do we see escaping that explosion? Only a pink streak. (Yes I know it has to be that way because Shimmer, but I'm talking narratively). Jinx's past finally died in that blast, and was laid to rest. What survived, or rather, was born, is something entirely new.
I believe Jinx surviving is the right choice for the story. Her death would undermine so many moments that were building up to a change. If she has to die, then it's not really true that you can build something new, is it? So much time was spent convincing Jinx that she can be something else *and* live. If she atones for her crimes then the past still matters, which I believe goes against the messaging.
Hey schnee. Love your videos, and I love your interpretation of the story through the lens of her needing reason for her death.
But, I have to say, this is one of the few times I disagree with you.
Well, disagree would be kind of a harsh word to say here, more like my interpretation breaks away. Ironically enough at the very end. I don't think Jinx's death would be a good one for her narratively. Here's why:
Jinx/Powder's story is one of dependence. I think a lot of the story is one based on that, whether that be a dependence on emotional support, drugs, religion, or duty. More than all of that, Jinx depends on others for validation. She first depends on Violet to validate her as a good sister and runner, then Vander as a daughter, then Silco as the same, and then finally Isha as an older sister/mentor. Her entire arc is described as someone who is looking for something to prove her existence, much like you said. But I disagree in the fact that she has it figured out. I don't think she understands her "story" at all. In fact, I think the reason she constantly spirals is because she's so lost. She NEEDS someone else to define her, which is why she immediately attaches herself first to Violet, then Silco, then Isha, and then, when she is isolated in a cell with no one to depend on, she goes back and attaches herself to an idea of Silco. Jinx herself is incapable of standing on her own, of defining who she is, because she's too wrapped up in the narrative that those around her have created for her.
It's something that even the au Jinx/Powder does. She attaches herself to au Ekko and never branches out on her own. It's what Vander was trying to push her to do.
After two seasons of watching her be beholden to the whims and definitions of others, to see her finally end her story by dying tastes a little bitter. This character that struggles this entire journey with defining her story, something that I don't believe she was able to do even after choosing her chair as the "Jinx", end her story not as something greater, but as a product of the very toxic narrative she'd lived in her whole life tastes bitter. It feels better to me, at least, to think she'd finally managed to walk away. That she finally managed to cut ties and the dependency she had on everyone else and finally fly free of Piltover/Zaun. Fly free of her need to be Powder, the sister of Vi; Jinx, the daughter of Silco; Jinx, the mentor of Isha; and Jinx, the hero of Zaun. Even as Jinx, the potential love interest of Ekko.
Jinx/Powder was both a combination of all of those, and none of that, and it is about time for her to find out what that is. It is time for her to write her own story, away from all of that.
Through this lens, to see her die at the end, after all that struggle, only serves to reinforce that her only worth this entire time was through what other people defined her as; chiefly as the sister of Violet, and that's a bit sad.
I fundamentally disagree. I think it would be better if she survives, BECAUSE disagrees with this idea of a story in her head, this idea that she has to do die after being held back by these bars for so long. I think it is a fundamentally better story to show her choosing to live and making a better future. That her being unable to die is not because fate wants her to heroically sacrifice herself, but because dying isn't her conclusion, and can't be her conclusion. Arcane is a drama yes, but it's also about hope, and forgiveness, and moving on from past mistakes and making amends.
For Jinx / Powder, choosing her life away from these confines, choosing to be alive and be happy with her choice, that is what conclusion she should go with.
I think that it is a better story if she chose to live and lives for the following reasons. I think how Arcane started, how season 1 ended, and how season 2 ended. It started with her killing her father by accident to save her sister and splitting her identity. Season 1 ended with her killing her father somewhat (un)intentionally to save her sister and solidifying her identity as Jinx while letting Powder die. After her season 2 conversation with Silco and identities being the prisons we build around ourselves, Season 2 ends with her intentionally killing her father to save her sister and then escaping the identities that people have tried to force on her as both Powder and Jinx.Vi, Cait, even Ekko have these preconceived notions of who she is or needs to be, who she is defined as. But if she escapes, then the rigid identity of Jinx dies while the character lives. She gets to leave it all behind. She doesn't just let others build something new, she gets to as well. Sometimes taking a step forward means leaving a few things behind, be it identities or loved ones. I remember when season 2 was in development the writers were asked about the themes of the season, and they said war and forgiveness. I think Jinx choosing to live would be a sign of her forgiving not just her sister, but also herself. She wanted to die for so long, condemning herself. Forgiving herself, she doesn't need to truly die anymore. For Piltover and Zaun, that forgiveness meant coming together to stop a terrible future in spite of the horrible things people on both sides did to each other, and building bridges to a better future after. For Vi and Jinx, their forgiveness meant coming together to stop their past from continuing to hurt them, and then separating to not be constrained by that past anymore. For Jinx the character to die, it would be like Zaun ceasing to exist. In both cases, rebuilding needs to occur. The destroyed cities need to literally rebuild, and these two damaged sisters need to rebuild who they are. I hope that makes sense. #teamjinxlives
Personally, I think they left it ambiguous, but there is simply no point to those breadcrumbs if we're not supposed to make something of it. The last time I watched s2e9 I noticed how much time they spent on Cait looking at those airducts, and that's too intentional. I feel like if the story they wanted to tell us that Jinx is dead, then she would have been DEAD.
Or, at least, Jinx as an identity is dead. And that makes sense for her. She's someone who has gone through a symbolic death of a past identity before. When she's falling with Vander, her tears flying up even resemble bubbles, as if she's underwater, recalling her baptism in the river. She is baptised as someone NEW, someone who isn't haunted by her sister, and her family, and the blood on her hands, because she finally did right by them.
This just made me think of a parallel. The S1 "baptism" by Silco and her putting him to rest in a parallel moment at the beginning of S2E2 (even if only in her mind) is one excellent reflection of her coming to terms with her past, but what about the moment in S1E3 where she's flung off the warehouse roof by her monkey bomb working? That time, she accidentally killed Vander. This time, her and Vander are falling through the air together, and she has a new monkey bomb that she can use to finally put him to rest.
That also ties her into Silco, since the framing of Silco at the beginning of S1E3 and Powder later in that episode through the blue-glowing air are clearly parallels, but she was never faced with the decision he was: to let go, or to survive. This entire season, she's been telling us that she can't die, which implies that she's been trying to passively or actively let go. Falling through the air with hextech and Vander for a second time, I personally love the implication that she's getting a chance to make that choice actively, and while either option makes sense to a degree, I can't help but think that making the same choice Silco did, *survive*, would be a lovely parallel.
However, she also has the addition of the "walk away from the cycle of violence" and "build something new" speeches, which is why she's not just going to drop back into her old life. She needs to do something completely different, rather than following Silco's lead and getting sucked ever deeper into the cycle of violence between Piltover/Zaun until she can't escape without dying. Ekko maintains a delicate balance where he's not been sucked into the cycle completely, but he does dip in and out of it, which I don't think she can do in a healthy way at this point and maybe never.
also one grenade aint gonna take warwick out. he took a 3x crystal explosion to the face and was fine, and jinx saw it happen. so what would be the point of her "sacrificing herself" if she knows it's not going to hurt him
I would like to believe that she survived. It's like Silco said, "I'd like to believe that to break the cycle one simply has to walk away" so Jinx escaping means that she's found the strength and the courage to walk away which is more satisfying than her just dying. I'd also like to add that her killing the persona Jinx means that she believes Ekko's words, that she can be a good version and that she's worth building something new for.
jinx’s fate is decently controversial within the community, many relate it to hopefulness many felt around isha’s death. however, i do feel there is enough evidence to warrant the speculation this time, and i find that very exciting!!!
The thing is, Arcane has no filler parts. If they show something, it's for a reason. At the end, when Cait looking at the bomb and the air ducts, what other reason can be there than to signal Jinxes escape? My head cannon is that they never found Jinxes body, but they did find the bomb, and that's why she's looking at the air vents.
Great analysis, but I think there’s one more part that you forgot/left out, and it’s Ambessa’s line to Caitlyn about having the strength to forgive. Jinx wants to break the cycle and in doing so she either kills herself or survives, but sacrificing herself with Ambessa’s ideas in mind “keeps the cycle going” even though Jinx would be dead. In terms of blood debts, she owes so much to not only everyone around her, but to herself too. She’s killed both her dads and her siblings and now has a choice: kill their killer or to have the strength to forgive herself and break the cycle by literally running away from the explosion. Breaking the cycle is only part of the conversation in Arcane, the cycle fully ends with Ambessa’s insight (whether she was being sarcastic in her speech or not) of “having the strength she does not… to forgive”
Counter argument to your point of Jinx dying being narrative conclusion: it could be the same or similar case to when Jinx kills Powder, maybe she moves on takes on a reformed persona or becomes Powder again and Powder is the one killing Jinx, she left all her problems behind and traveled runeterra
Finishing the Cycle from S1 Ep9 and starting a new one
Love your videos man. I do have to say though that as much as I can also see how Jinx being dead could be the perfect ending for her story, I also see her living as another perfect ending to her story. The idea of her trying to find who she is when she's no longer defined by someone else (very similar to Vi's own story) and has to figure out who she really is outside of her loved ones' preconceptions about who she is seems like a fitting end (new beginning?) to her story too.
Awesome analysis but I think Jinx dying would undermine her whole conversation with Ekko and Isha's sacrifice. Jinx being alive is also confirmed by the Arcane Art Book Artifact Edition. It has notes from Jinx all over the inside, and on the box it has "I LIVE" written all over it. Inside the art book on the first few pages Jinx writes "Wanna know a secret? I am still here" 😎
It’s far worse story if she dies if we take into account what your gonna discuss next week with the come play scene. The undercity rallied behind her in the end, she became a revolutionary (didn’t want to) for Isha. She did what that story built her up to do and she would have had the same reaction she did in Stillwater.
That would give her purpose to live, I think you also missed that on her airship when Vander jumps onto it. She looks scared for her life, she never looks that way in any other near death. She found purpose. I think her going out and finding who she is outside of “jinx” is a far better story than dying in that moment especially as she discovered there is a good her.
Also… the writers said we’re gonna continue her story. I saw what you said and I couldn’t disagree more about your analysis of how it impacts her story, the rest is really good.
Neither version is clean from a storytelling perspective. But I do think it's wild to introduce all the evidence of possibility of survival for no reason other than ambiguity in a show where very little has been left ambiguous.
Like, if they wanted her dead, don't include all the evidence of possibility of survival. It doesn't make sense. The only person who it makes sense for is Vi to hold onto hope thst she made it. And she clearly doesn't have that. So this act of hope giving is entirely aimed at the audience and validated by Caitlyn, who we think of as a Jinx villain. Her being "happy" about evidence of Jinx's survival and then not telling Vi suggests to me that the writers want it to be our little secret so that Vi doesn't think she grieved and hurt for nothing.
It really is a "have your cake and eat it too" approach. We get the emotional significance of her death without having to give up on Jinx fans who didn't want her to die (of which there appear to be many).
My take is she doesn’t need to actually die. She just wants everyone to think/believe she’s dead, because then ‘Jinx’ (the identity) IS dead. Death was an escape from the role her identity placed her in, so whether or not she actually died, she effectively escaped the identity, because everyone (in the story, bar maybe caitlyn) believed she was dead.
Now, wherever she goes, ‘Jinx’ does not go with her, because ‘Jinx’ DID die in Piltover.
10:20 I think this is more about jinx finally having an option to die but CHOOSING not to, taking that agency back in a more positive way, I think it makes more sense that after Ekko changed her mind, she might have realized that yes she COULD die here, sacrifice herself to be a "good sister", but realizing that there is a way to build something new, otherwise Her dying kinda undermines the entire scene with Ekko IMO.
It's the same choice Silco was talking about all that time, but she'd never really faced it and made the choice. She'd always left it up to fate, and fate seemed to prevent her from dying, so she came to the conclusion that she simply couldn't die. This time, I don't think fate (aka the narrative) would have intervened, since the story would have ended the same either way, so I love the idea that she decided to finally take Silco's lesson and chose to survive, also taking Ekko's lesson about building something new in the process.
SHNEE THANK YOU FOR POSTING! MAKES MY DAY/NIGHT EVERYTIME AND I JUST LOVE the DEPTH YOU GET TO WITH IT ALL THE TIME
ITS THE BEST TO SIT AND WATCH AND YES!
In a meta level, I think making the message that "killing yourself for someone else is okay" is.... oooh yikes.
Personally I do fall into the camp of Ekko just getting through to her and the realization that she can't stay in this place that's so drenched in blood and trauma so if she wants to be free to build something new, she needs to leave.
Which is functionally the same as death in the narrative as long as she's not touched on again.
I do truly love how like 5 minutes into the analysis I completely saw that you're on the topic of "Is Jinx dead or alive?" but you're not really answering it through the If scenarios you kept bringing up, instead you just kept going on on what would be good for the story and I just love how deep down all your videos are truly a love letter to arcane storytelling and a true delight to sit through and watch
It’s like schrodinger's cat, we cannot confirm that she is alive or dead until we see the series in which it will put this argument to rest. For now with Arcane as a series is over, she’s dead as we don’t see her on screen presence after. She’ll be alive when we see her on screen presence in the next series. The art book and Ella hiding her smile when the question was asked hints at this reveal that certainly she is alive. Like Loki at the end of Thor faking her death, she’ll be back. The way she let goes at the end of the Thor 1 movie and her in a jail cell in Thor the Dark World reminds me of this parallel. I wouldn’t be surprised if she becomes some type of multiverse god, or at least asks Viktor to be. Perhaps Viktor will kindle a connection to Powder similar to that of Jayce. I can see some type of future Viktor guiding AU Powder to the creation of hex tech similar to what she did with Jayce, but who knows in regard to the possibilities story can take.
Thumbs up if Jinx lives
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This is a good video discussing the possibilities of the state jinx is at in the story, Schnee, especially the part on Warwick and whether Vander came back to save his daughter again.
No, Shnee, suicide is NOT the perfect end to her arc. In fact it’s wildly risky for writers to be promoting and glorifying suicide like this. Many real suicidal people feel they are saving people when they kill themselves. Our stories should not be reinforcing that narrative. I used to think arcane was the best show in the world but after the last episode I feel like it’s just as bad as 13 Reasons Why.
Suicidal people need to be shown that change is possible and that there is a different way forward and that there is a place for them in the world.
I can only hope the writers knew this and will show a happy, living Jinx in the next series
Seriously. They were so irresponsible with this IMO. Jinx literally tried to do it 5 minutes earlier, kill herself to stop "jinxing" Vi and everyone she loves with her existence, because she feels her responsible for what happened to Isha. MANY suicidal people think this way about "saving" their families and loved ones.
If Ekko stops her only so that she can still "save Vi by dying" very soon afterwards, then what's even the point of him saving her? Saying she can "build something new"? How can anyone build anything by fucking dying? Is this really supposed to be the conclusion of this show - "suicide IS the answer, if you manage to make it heroic enough"? It's insane. How is Vi supposed to get less traumatized and happier after seeing her sister kill herself to save her life? "Always with you, sis" - that's just wonderful, sounds exactly like what Claggor and Mylo were to Jinx, dying and then haunting her forever.
This can literally only make emotional sense to mentally ill people who struggle with suicidal ideation and think they can "save" others from their "burden". And telling them it's a good idea is really NOT the message they should be receiving.
Honestly both arguments of Jinx dying or surviving make sense, but the thing keeping me on the living side of the argument is the fact we never have any implications of a body being found. Not to mention Cait holding part of her bomb that went off and looking at the vents having those very specific facial expressions, also it wouldn't really make sense in my opinion for her to be looking at the prints of the building structure if they had already found her body, let alone Cait holding the bomb piece in her hand at the same time. Plus if we consider every other bit of evidence like the streak, airship, other points discussed in the video, league lore with her being friends with a character from an upcoming series from LoL(that could be wrong I don't know much about LoL lore but i did hear multiple people mention it,) and how it could negatively impact Vi's story (it being her fault a loved one died again causing her more guilt etc.) So in my opinion I think it is really heavily implied she is alive and just kinda makes more sense to me.
I love that quote at the end "You will lose out on a lot of beauty in life if you only try to understand what you agree with". I can commiserate with making an argument when one is deeply in one's emotions. I've eventually learned to step back & look at other people's reasons without the purpose of trying to change them. It makes life more colorful, & it broadens my interests. Thank you for analyzing the question so many of us wanted you to talk about. And thank you for showing us, yet again, the questions behind the question. I can't wait for your next video! But I will.
Clicked so fast my finger nearly broke the sound barrier
One thing to note about the Monkey grenade is that if you slow down thee scene where she tries to blow herself up right before ekko saves her you can clearly see a pink streak shoot out of the monkey grenade (specifically the eyes on the monkey head)
I'm not sure if this solves anything but i thought it was worth mentioning.
i don't know i don't really like the "kill yourself or everyone you love will die" ending? how is that beautiful?
"jinx suffered too much" so what we put her down like a horse?
really weird analysis this time
I mean i also disagree with his conclusion, but "narratively satisfying" and "beautiful" are not the same
@franm938 nono i know but he literally says it's beautiful at one point
The pink streak is not that convincing but the air ducts and the airship is.
There is also an orange streak so Warwick might also be alive.
The best ending is to let this question open.
I agree that it was Vander that saved her, because it is connected to that Monkey bomb in that case.
When Jinx takes out her Monkey bomb - camera zooms on it - then we see Vander's memory of tucking Powder and Vi in ( they were asleep so it is his memory of it, not theirs ) and him blowing the candle - the angle of that shot is showing to us his face and Powder's Monkey head side by side. Same head she has on her bomb now, same style.
Last time she wanted to use a bomb on him was in prison when they fought and it made him remember who she was, so this flashback could indicate that he was the one that threw her to safety, he was holding her by the waist anyways. I don't know if she is strong enough to escape his grip on her own. Him blowing that candle could be a metaphor of the last thing "Vander" did, idk.
I think she tries to make him remember who she is when Vander jumps on her lair ship, first time we see him during the attack - it is a short scene - Jinx is lying on the ground and you can see her holding the bomb in her right hand while she is holding onto a railing with her left one, it happens just before Vi jumps in with Ekko..
HOWEVER, there is also this: someone pointed out that explosion happened in the dome, it did NOT happen near those air ducts Caitlyn was looking at. SO, bomb exploded in the dome but they continued falling down ( option where that pink streak is from the bomb itself, as seen when she tries to kill herself but Ekko stops her ) Then they would reach those air ducts we see in the blueprint and Vander would "throw" her there.
Jinx actually merged her personalities into one at the end and she managed to "create something new".
Her really dying here is basicslly saying only death is her redemption, which is not what episode 7 told us. Not death, but create something new.
However it happened, too many details are there saying she lived ( Caitlyn looking at airducts holding part of her bomb, Vanders menories of the past, that airship only Powder reffers to, even Arcane writers unable to respond to a question is she dead or not. Writers already cut a lot of things from final episode, so to leave all that just so she is dead is not possible.
Also in case you still think she did die - THE END is in Jinx style with scribbles on an airship from s1e1 she pointed to with " the Bridge" tune. Come on
It would be actually so funny if her "please let me go" was literally directed at Vander, as in "please stop holding me with your claws so that I can escape this explosion" .
@JoannaFalkowska xD
If it had just been the pink streak I'd believe it was pushed by Riot, but also having Caitlyn investigating the vents and the airship leads me to believe that her living was the intended ending. I think her dying is more satisfying from a story perspective, although it does make me a little uneasy that all the main characters who attempted suicide end up sacrificing themselves.
Honestly, I'm surprised we're still debating this, I thought we had all agreed that Jinx had left Piltover with all the teases they gave us at the end.
I would love to see a vi focused video, they’re hard to come by recently. I understand to most she may not be as compelling as some of the other characters but it hurts to see her get overlooked, I still feel like there’s a lot to discuss and analyse when it comes to her this season, even just the little things that people tend to brush past/disregard
Saaaaaaaame. All videos about Vi are shipping videos with Caitlyn. Vi is such a misunderstood character I would love to see more content of diving in deeper on her arc.
Weird, cuz she's the closest thing you have to "the main protagonist"
It's so interesting because I think she's one of the deepest and hardest to understand characters. A lot of characters people sympathize more with have their struggles and emotions EXPLICITLY shown in the show, Vi is not one of them. To understand Vi you have to look a little deeper than what they show you on the screen. I feel like riot made it like this on purpose because Vi's character is like that, she doesn't show much of her feelings, she's the "strong one" who nobody thinks can get hurt, she's "though" and "cold", that's what people around her see and that's what WE see on the surface, then you realize she's the opposite of those things
exactly this!! I really actually like that about her and find her to be the most intriguing because of that. So much of her character lies within subtleties, it’s not always slapped in your face or overtly obvious, you have to take the time to read between the lines and figure it out for yourself, draw your own conclusions. I ended up empathising with her the most because that kind of archetype/characterisation aligns the most with me. I know the writers get flack for sidelining her trauma (which I sometimes agree with) but a part of me is also oddly accepting of it for that very reason, it’s stays truthful to her reality and the reality of many people. We don’t always get to have these big moments of emotional display or time to reflect or dwell in our feelings. This is especially true to her and what we know about her as a character, she focuses so much on others that she rarely takes time to focus on herself. I feel like that’s a reason it wasn’t always shown, vi didn’t allow it to be. She just picked herself up and kept on going a lot of the time because that’s who she is. It doesn’t mean she wasn’t affected, that she wasn’t hurt, that things didn’t impact her as strongly as they did jinx or other characters, she was just better at keeping it hidden and not letting herself feel it because she felt like she had to. I feel like the writers reflected that well in a lot of ways. Would more people have sympathised with her if we did get these more jinx like moments from her? Probably, but it also wouldn’t have been accurate to her as a person. We only get to see her starting to change up that narrative at the end of the season. I wish more people would look at her with a closer lens because there’s so much of substance there to find and explore. Sorry for the soapbox here I just really love vi (wasn’t it obvious) and have a lot to say about this topic
@@BS-bd4xo She is, but interestingly if you look at least at Season 1 she is the character that goes through the least growth and change. She starts out as a rebel who wants to protect the people she cares about and ends as a rebel who wants to protect the people she cares about. She doesn't really change in any fundamental ways. She goes through a lot more change in Season 2 but at the end of the day she hasn't fundamentally changed. She decided to move past her animosity for the Enforcers and join them, but it's because she still wants to protect the people she cares about and has just decided that working with Cait as an Enforcer is the best way to do that at that time
In the scene with Jinx and Warwick Vander at the end she still hasn't changed, she isn't willing to let Jinx and Vander go even though it's the obviously correct decision
To be clear I don't think that's a bad thing necessarily but it's very unusual for a protagonist's character arc
Personally, i think jinx living is one final nod to isha, and her entire message. "There's always choice"
11:00 To sort out the "mechanics" of the whole situation a bit. Glowing eyes argument - I've interpretted the glow throughout the whole show as a symptom of not really "sanic gotta go fast" boost euphoria but a symptom of excitement - and as we all know excitement may come in a positive way (euphoria of fight, standing up to adversity, being a "big fat hero" - eg. look Rictus fight, Stillwater Vander fight) or negative, pure fear, way (eg. when Jinx finds out that Isha was taken to Stillwater or Jinx leaving Vi in the prison - in both situations her eyes also start to glow pink). So I think the pink streak doesn't cross out the possibility of her being saved directly or indirectly by Vander - the streak is not really connected to her movement but to her emotions.
Also, in the suicide scene the grenade blows up immediately because she pulls the safety pin without holding the striker lever - assuming that writers took inspiration from real life grenades eg. MK2 (which seems true given the similarities to the real thing*** ) it is possible that with Vander she gained some distance from him before the explosion (prepping it properly and jumping right when she leaves it behind, letting go of the striker lever after pulling the pin or maybe throwing it (which I think in some weird way makes sense with some paths they could take her)). If you watch it frame by frame it's kinda inconclusive, kinda proving my theory - the streak and explosion literally come in the same frame but IMO pink streak is already extended at the moment of explosion what suggest that she had a head start (in "speedster" type of speeds my way of seeing it seems plausible).
But at the end of the day that's fckin boring and you're right - the best way to approach it is through the story, not through some pixels and weird details. And IMO her still living makes sense in regards to many motifs given throughout the series but I like your reasoning - maybe I don't agree with it just because of cope :D - I've really sympathized with Jinx, she became my favourite character (maybe because of many loose similarities between us - broken up family, similar sibling dynamic, feeling of being different throughout my life) so I would be devastated if it turns out that she's dead. Anyway - great video, keep'em coming!
*** - but also this hinges on the fact that writers have read only first page of the manual :D. With real nades time to explosion is defined by fuse so even when pulling the safety pin without holding the striker lever the explosion would be delayed. With 0s fuse it would still make sense but the margins start to get a bit murky. It's kinda like - if writers have only 50% knowledge about nades the theory works in 100%; if writers have 100% knowledge about the nades the theory works in 50% :D
In-game, her passive ability is the one that gives her a speed boost, and it's literally called "Get Excited!" so I love that you noticed that. She seems to be able to turn it on semi-intentionally at some points in the show, after Season 1 where she clearly doesn't have a lot of control over it, but it's also definitely strongly linked to her emotions.
As much as I don't want to jump on any 'hate train' about the show, if we had had another scene with jinx/echo working together it could've explained a lot more and made a lot more sense for either conclusion, I hate the fact that it's even a discussion ngl
For me, if Jinx lives, answering the question at the end of the video, she would wonder around Zaun and Piltover as one member of his own move, to see what's changing and how everyone is doing without really interfering with them, as she would want to keep her supposed death as that. But I do think it would be interesting to explore it if she only talks with Ekko, as I imagine she has feelings for him, not because of the alternative universe, because she really showed care to the plan they made, genuinly thinking that she is able to make something new with him.
I'm looking forward to the video about Jayce and (especially) Viktor, and how their arcs basically ties together the entire Arcane plot.
In any of the cases, is bad. If Jinx died, is not just cliche but also inappropriate for a key-aspect of Jinx redemption: the will to live. And if Jinx forged her own death, then with was not redeemed at all, because she still don't trust in the agency of those who she cares about. By making her old sister thinks she died, Vi will always be trapped in a lie, and misses a key-aspect for Vi's fixing: the letting go of the lies she believes. Can you imagine, for example, Frodo making Sam, Merry and Pippin think he died?
In any of the cases, Arcane ruined the journeys of their main characters in the end. The writers had put so much focus in side characters that left nothing for the sisters's closure but threadbare climax and/or immaturity that neglect their growing
Considering that every character and moment of this season had their own plot twist flipping the entire script for what we thought was gonna happen, yeah it fits that she actually lived.
Fair--Idk I choose to imagine her staying alive because I don't want suicide to be glorified. Jinx being alive does more good overall on that metanarrative front, even if the narrative states otherwise
Honestly so agreed about not being that interested in the "factual" answer. It reminds me a lot about people arguing about the ending of Inception when that first came out. The "factual" answer to whether he's still in a dream isn't really important or that interesting.
I disagree with your conclusion. I think the story is better if Jinx survives. This might be personal preference, but I don't like if the "is supposed to die" character actually dies. It's just giving up to me. I don't think this undermines her sacrifice at all. She does sacrifice something. She sacrifices her old life, her relationship with Vi, her relationship with anyone in Piltover and Zaun. This is a significant sacrifice. Also we see this scene from Vis perspective. She does lose her sister. She has to let her go.
But for Jinx, she has been through the whole thinking she has to die process. Why save her if she's going to die anyways. Why let her die in a situation that could've been completely avoidable if Vi just could let go? It's cruel. We have enough stories where the mentally ill character dies. We don't need the message that Jinx is just to broken, that she has to die in order to rest and be free. As someone who suffers from mental illness myself this type of messaging is really damaging. And it's not Jinx arc to me, or at least not the conclusion to her arc. Characters usually have to go from what they want to what they actually need. If a character is defined by running from death, them accepting death would be the right conclusion. Jinx however wants to die, so in order for her to evolve she has to realize that she can live. She can live, leave everything behind and start a now life
Last time I was part of a streak analysis, I had to get new underwear.
I think there’s a lot of merit to Jinx leaving/escaping, because it really ties everything we saw in episode 7 together. Vander and Silco could only be brothers again when they both moved on and agreed they made mistakes, Ekko could only get back when he helped powder move on and find new hope, and in arcane we see what happens when people DONT move on. We see the cycle of killing repeat, Vander and silco, the weird chainsaw lady, victor and Jace, black rose and Medarda. Jinx as a character has been the least able to move on, the most trapped in the past even in season two she’s more confident but still trapped in regret and solitude. What we see in the finale is characters breaking the cycle, Ekko going back to jinx, Jace and victor leaving, medarda approving of Mel. If Jinx dies that means that regret and solitude wins, the PAST wins. So I love the idea that she didn’t die because it won’t end when she dies(Vander proved that), it ends when she leaves.
the view i have is that whether Jinx dies or not, the point is that her identity as powder/jinx has ended. I feel her death is a symbol of 'jinx' dying, as she struggles so much w her identity in s2, especially during Isha bits n bobs. also links to her starting her life anew that you were talking about in the last analysis. Maybe her death being ambiguous is telling us that her future isn't clear cut or set in stone. There's no definitive way for her now, just something new and unexplored, whether that's in death or life.
IMO this "big question" DOES make the story worse and contributes a lot to the feeling of a "rushed" season. Jinx is THE central character of this character-driven show, and her choices in the finale are what should've been put front and center, not left for surprise reveals and "mystery box"-style cliffhangers. Dead Jinx and alive Jinx are such vastly different character arcs that they make for two entirely different stories on the scale of the entire season. IMO, "alive" makes more narrative sense because otherwise we've had too many "false climaxes" earlier on, but it doesn't really matter that we disagree on this, the important part is that this shouldn't've been a question in the first place. If this were on par with S1, we'd instead be discussing what her choice means on several thematic levels.
I think you are missing the forest for the trees a bit. These types of endings are designed specifically to engage people on analysis of themes and meaning. Creators leave blank spaces in media with the intent that the audience will be able to follow the logic established prior to come to the conclusion they had in mind. This comment section, and frankly youtube as a whole, are full of people expressing their opinions and why they feel those opinions make the most sense narratively. You have people on both sides explaining it and citing examples from things like the visuals, the audio, call-backs prior episodes.
I agree with you that alive Jinx makes a better story. I'd even say I'm so far on that side it seems crazy people argue against it, but the reason I believe that is because I've spent time re-watching episodes and thinking about the show from as many angles as I can imagine. Probably more than I would if they had just handed me the explanation.
I don't think it's just lazy "mystery box" writing. I think the writers had clear intent for the character, and left it so that the audience can pick up the pieces and put the puzzle together themselves.
@@CrackedDota I wouldn't call it lazy, rather... misguided? There's a lot of puzzle material in S2 as it is. Like "what's up with that raven" or "how screwed is the AU given that last shot". Those are fun speculations that don't detract from the story. By contrast, the feelings of the central character in the climax should be as clear as day in order to be immediately felt during the watch, not reconstructed. Compare with the S1 "cliffhanger": we have absolutely no idea who will survive and who won't, or how the cities will be affected by Jinx's shot, but we 100% know and feel what's inside her (and Vi's) mind in that moment. That's what makes it cathartic, as schnee laid out in his great analysis of that scene.
In S2 quite a few pivotal character moments are treated as surprise reveal material (namely, Cate's turn against Ambessa, Jinx's teamup with Ekko and Jinx's final decision). What makes it feel "rushed" for me is that those moments aren't given space to breathe and be felt in the moment. With Jinx specifically, the fact that she wants to die is established amazingly in S8. But then it's a mess of "Oh, I guess she now doesn't... Oh, I guess she does again... or does she?". Clarity is sacrificed for cool twists in the battle. As a result, instead of a "good" kind of uncertainty ("it's clear what is happening, but there are just so many implications to ponder") there's confusion (what is she even doing, let alone why?). And that's on top of Vander's appearance being confusing as it is (even schnee admits his arc makes little sense at that point) and all the metaphysical schenanigans in the other subplots (my other huge gripe with S2).
For this moment to work as a tragedy like schnee would prefer, the entire scene should be like a trainwreck in slow motion: while we're observing Jinx's resolve to sacrifice herself, her motivations start to "click" and we're led to repeat "oh no" (as was perfectly executed with Isha). For this to be the kind of a "breakthrough" ending you and I seem to want, that's the point where the "puzzle" should click, with significant focus on Jinx's realization that she could "break the cycle" differently and us rooting for her success (still bittersweet because the family is shattered and mended at the same moment). Perhaps just as little as a flashback to earlier dialogue, recontextualizing Silco's and Ekko's words could turn that scene, or an explicit shot of Jinx in the blimp, pondering her course from there.
In other words, a puzzle picked together after the fact is like an explained joke: by the time it starts making sense, it's too detached from the moment to evoke the desired feelings.
@@Sithoid Wonderfully put. I agree completely.
On the question of whether which answer better serves the storytelling, Jinx dying doesn't make sense. The ambiguity itself doesn't serve her sacrifice and the tragedy of her life. Caitlyn's scene looking at the hexgates and the airship at the end doesn't serve Jinx's death well.
It's the only death that didn't commit to the dead part, characters who died and came back weren't alluded to be alive (Vander, Silco, Jinx, Mel. Viktor, Jayce) they stayed dead until the story found a way for them to live in the story again. No ambiguity, no wohoo are these characters alive or not, they stayed dead. Jinx's death was the only non-commital death in the whole story, and if that points to her being alive (ambiguity=hope) or dead (ambiguity=no hope) that's fine.
What's better for the story? to commit the storytelling to itself. To commit to the dead part or the alive part. For the story to be non-commital and it being about the protagonist isn't beautiful.
Piece two and two together and Jinx is alive.
that click i just did is the fastest thing i have ever done
Ong
@Schnee if you aren't aware, there is a mini-game on the League of Legends client that is giving context for Jinx for season two. Stuff like what materials she used to fix Sevika's arm, and tying more character history together. Would love for you to incorporate the additional information into your analysis videos as canon-adjacent material.
Great vid as always man.
PS if you do it, for act two of the mini-game, you will know the code if you know/recognize the locations
I would like to push this discussion in another direction, actually.
From a storytelling perspective, why does Jinx's fate need to be up to interpretation? What does that achieve? What purpose does it fulfill?
Because we're speculating on whether she is dead or alive and what that would mean for her, as if we haven't seen the ending of the show yet. But we have!
So why do we not see the aftermath? Why is the focus put on just before that instead? Why does Jinx's story NEED to end at that point specifically?
Here's the conclusion I've come to.
We don't see her fate, because this scene is the death of the Jinx identity. The Silco speech (which happens in Jinx's head) is about how identities constrain and imprison. Whether or not the girl we know as Jinx physically survives *doesn't matter* - the Jinx identity dies either way. More importantly, had we actually seen her fate - would it be seeing her on the ship or in a coffin - this fact would have gone entirely over our heads - it would have stopped being in focus.
This reminds of one of schnee's other videos discussing s1's ending, when he analyzed why the focus of the scene was Jinx shooting the cannon and not Piltover exploding. To use the example he used in that video with Star Wars - had Darth Vader not died saving Luke, our focus would no longer be at Vader's decision to do the right thing and turn lightside, but would have been on the family reunion - undermining the message of the movie. The same thing is happening here.
As a whole this entire scene really is about freeing these characters:
- It frees Vi - she could not give up on Jinx, but with her gone, she can now be happy. It also frees her from the burden of killing her father again (as mentioned in this video).
- It frees Vander - no matter if this shows that there was still a fraction of Vander left in this scene or if this was entirely symbolic - as shown by the flashback of him tucking Vi and Powder in bed, it's a way for him to say goodbye to his daughters.
- And again, it frees the girl we know as Jinx - the Jinx identity is dead - she has finally *resolved* that conflict and is free to build something new.
On my opinion, if she is actually alive though - 100% without a shadow of a doubt in my mind.
- The fact that Cait is looking at the schematics of the hexgate, while holding a part of Jinx's grenade, shows that the body hasn't been recovered - this would be important both for legal reasons and to give closure to Vi.
- In ep7 we see a healthy version of Powder, who despite still having had hardships in her life, was able to prevail and come to terms with her demons. Her dying in the OG universe would drain all meaning from this - presenting that somehow Jinx was too broken to live, which would arguably go against what the show is trying to give us as a message.
- AU Powder's conflict also revolves around "filling her own cup", not just other's. Jinx sacrificing herself for someone else would leave this arc unresolved.
- This would undermine the Ekko-Jinx conversation in ep9. I would argue that no matter if it's a sacrifice or an attempt to stop conflict - death is death, it would not be building something new.
- There's also the second half of the song "Wasteland", where the lyrics say:
"I'm not ready to face it
Don't go saying goodbye
There's a beauty in changes
And I wanna try
This world is a wasteland where nothing can grow
If it weren't for you, I'd be here all alone
I know in my heart this is where we belong
This world is a wasteland
*Don't* let me go, go, go, go
Go, go, go, don't let me go"
- Jinx has stories outside of Piltover and Zaun in LoL lore. Keeping in mind Arcane is now canon to it, although it has already made some significant changes to it, having Jinx die at this point would leave HUGE holes in the lore.
- Yea there's also the ship and explosion things, though I believe these to be weaker arguments for her living. The ship at the end could be a symbol of her moving on, even if she's dead. And the explosion doesn't just have one pink streak. Despite that, I still believe she is alive for the reasons provided in the other arguments.
EDIT: I'd like to thank and shout out everyone else in this comment section for helping me figure this out! This whole theory really is just a mix of a bunch of other comments I have seen here, which I agree with and helped me answer the questions I put on the table in the beginning.
I would like to know what all of you think though!
I personally feel that her faking her death to let Vi move on was a really awful message. She had just lost Isha, she should know what a cruel pain that is. Traumatizing loved ones because they'd be better off without you, if they wanted to go that route, maybe they should've made it so that Vi really would be better off without her? Maybe Jinx could've become a crazed shimmer addict, idk. As it is, they still could've run away together. I was really drunk watching the ending, so maybe i missed something, but i don't see how this was a super nessesary or effective sacrifice to make, making everyone think she's dead.
10:08 No NO NOO!!! I love you schnee but this is a HORRIBLE take. Letting someone think you're dead so they can 'move on' and 'be happy' is one of the most CRUEL, HEARTLESS, and MISGUIDED things you can do to someone. Especially your immediate family. You don't think Vi is going to carry this with her the rest of her life? How she failed to 'take care of Powder' not once, but twice? Imagine if you had a misguided sibling who was always getting into trouble that you've been trying to help. Then you're partly responsible for their death. How would you feel? Not only that, but say they ended up living. And the reason they didn't tell you was so 'you could move on and be happy without the troubled sibling'. See how ridiculous this sounds in real life?
Personally I think the writers gave enough clues to show that Jinx is alive. I don't think they would kill such a popular character. What I DO think is they went for shock value. That fake out death was for the audience, NOT the characters. And if true, it cheapens the end of the season. This all could have been solved by a conversation with Vi and Jinx after the battle. Where Jinx tells Vi that she's in a good place for the first time since her childhood, and Vi has to let her go. THAT'S how you let someone move on and be happy. NOT letting them think you're dead.
16:34 100%. If Jinx is dead the ending works beautifully. If not like you said, it's completely undermined.
I've always said this and I'll say it again: if you don't see a character die on screen, then they're probably still alive. Especially if they don't show you a body. So I don't believe for even a millisecond that Nugget (my nickname for Jinx/Powder) is dead. 😌
He is correct in that when taking all meta information into account Jinx is most likely alive with it left ambiguious for future story telling purposes, but based on everything actually in the show there is certainly no doubt she is alive. The biggest point for this that he left out in his argument is that Cait is not only looking at the schematics of the hex gate but also holding the head of the grenade. As a cop/leader of Piltover recovering Jinx's body for legal purposes and to prove she is dead would be very important and it would also be important personally to Vi so they can bury Jinx. So the fact that she found and searched the blast site and even found debris from the explosion but no body is a very pointed omission. And the argument that the story is better with her dead is a personal opinon and I'd argue that it is not universal. Esspecially for anyone who has struggled with mental health issues and suicidal tendencies, Jinx overcoming those and chosing to walk away from eveything makes a better more interesting story/character arc.
This video is excellent. But I have to say, I think it's genuinely better for the storytelling if she's alive. Not just for thematic reasons and for what that tells me about her arc (which I feel makes way more sense than you give it credit for, vs her dying) - the ending feels extremely abrupt if she is dead. There is no mourning time given for the audience, nor for Vi really, for such a major character, and the positive upswing in tone with Vi at the end feels tacked on and hollow. If she's alive though, then the lack of emotional closure is justifiable - and more than that, is probably ideal. Pair that with Cait looking at the vents and the final shot of the blimp, and I think the ending sequence just makes significantly less sense and fumbles its tone completely if she's supposed to be dead. Whereas it makes complete sense and is effective if she's alive - or, if at least, we are supposed to suspect that she's alive.
It also is still pretty tragic if she's alive - she's still having to inflict major trauma on her sister and lie about it, and abandon everything she knew, just to break the cycle. But there's just a silver lining to it. It's not a full-on happy ending if she's alive, there's so much baggage with it still. She can never fully heal. She can just do what she can to move on.
16:47 I personally perceives this "sacrifice" as more of a final goodbye to her father. Allowing HIM a warm embrace before "death". A way to both save Vi & allowing herself the last step of grieving before moving away
Excited to see a new video! I'm sure it'll be great as usual
11:11 even if jinx didn't jump away from the explosion, she still needs fast speed to land somewhere, and/or spend that reaction time to process what happened
Honestly, the way I see it, Jinx's old life is dead. She's escaping, she's getting away from everything, she's moving somewhere new, she's starting over (hopefully with Ekko too lmao) She's a new person now
So, in my opinion, literally speaking, she did survive. And now she's living
Usually when a character dies and revives it is a bad thing because it makes the plot lose meaning, since death stops having weight.
But in this case the fact of not being able to die can in itself be a blessing and a curse, for not being able to rest and having to deal with the karma of their past actions while restarting a new life.
At the same time, she is "dead" for piltover , that would allow vi and katlin to have their romance with no hard feelings, and would be easier to bring peace between the two cities (in the past silco and jayce didn't agree on peace because of jinx)
but I am sure that she will be back to help with her chaotic power at some point in the future.