How To Determine Trolling Depth Using Lead for Kokanee and Trout
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- Опубликовано: 27 ноя 2023
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In absence of a downrigger the best way to target Kokanee or trout at depth is to use lead sinkers. Inline weights have become less favored compared to sliding or snap weight rigs that allow anglers to quickly change weights on the water. However, determining exactly how deep you are can be challenging but it critically important. In this video I go over two products I developed to help overcome this challenge.
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This chart is free for personal use but may not be replicated or produced and sold for profit. It is the intellectual property of Tyler Hicks. For rights to use this chart in publications or for resale please contact me. Спорт
I was out kayak fishing Jordanelle Reservoir, UT this summer and a boat goes by and he suddenly turns around and heads right towards me. He gets within shouting distance and asked, “ Are you Tyler Hicks?”. Sadly, I had to say no. Greatest compliment I’ve ever received while fishing.
Truly great and hard work. One of the best parts is how much you have shared about your methodology and conditions. As you said, "similar" data is out there, but each table or chart is different and it is so hard to know how to apply the results. Your results are clear and easy to apply.
Thank you so much for your steadfast support.
Tyler thank you a lot, this is a really detailed depth chart. I know it took a while but us lead trollers really appreciate the accuracy here
Thanks for pedaling the extra miles to make us all smarter!
My pleasure!
I troll with 15 pound mono and use either a dodger or a small three-bladed flasher that I make. I am interested in seeing how a dodger or a flasher combined with the lead weight affect the depth. Your numbers are similar to some charts I have, but yours seem to be closer to what I have experienced. I hope you create some new charts that include a dodger or a flasher. Thank you for clearly listing your assumptions and variables. It helps understand the data.
Your grad school science background shows brightly. And you must have read my mind - awesome help.
Awesome! Thanks for taking your time to do this!!!
This is GOLD! Thank you!
I've had something similar on my boat for a few years. However, quite likely a safe bet that yours are a bit more accurate than mine so purchased a few of the sticker version. Thank you!
I’m still very new to Kokanee fishing but I love it. Thanks for showing us the way.
Thanks Tyler, Really well done!
This is brilliant! Great work! And thank you!
Thanks for the info! Will buy the charts when I get a kayak!
This is truly a prayer that been answered. Thank you for the work and everything you've done for this. This is true data that's truly reliable
Hey Tyler. All your vids are amazing and this one is truly so beneficial. Thanks for making it available to the world. Awesome
Great stuff. And I really appreciate you explanation so to better understand the data and how it was arrived at.. I will be looking forward to your future ones with depth info. Along with of course your fishing ones. Thanks
This is fantastic information, Thank you so much!
Thanks so much for doing this!!
Thanks Tyler!
Got the sticker version ordered with a Spilt Milt sticker!
Just ordered up 3 of the 5x7 stickers. Thankful for the work you put in that I could never have accomplished.
Awesome video thank you so much!
Thanks for sharing this information! We enjoy your videos a lot!
Thank you for your support!
really interesting stuff. thanks for compiling all the data and taking the time do this! I like this kind of thing haha.
Great stuff Tyler!
Thanks for the charts! I bought 2 stickers and misplaced them... Thank you for sharing the PDFs. Love your content!
Fantastic resource & data presentation. This will be greatly beneficial for Sockeye salmon fishing also in Lk Wenatchee since it's using similar troll speed and depth. Thank you for the video!
Thanks for doing the research that many of us have thought about but you actually did it. Thanks again.
You are welcome! Thank you.
Thanks Tyler! We appreciate the balance between detailed science-y info and your enthusiasm for good times on the water.
Glad you enjoy it!
Awesome vid! Been following for a while, considering getting a kayak. Appreciate the info and great explanation of how the data was gathered
Thank you support!
This is awesome!! Just ordered both for the boat! Thanks a bunch.
Awesome! Thank you!
Nice work. Thanks for the useful, in depth info
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks! Your videos have really helped me dial in my fishing! Cant wait for the data for chinook fishing in the future!
Glad to help!
I have limited time to get out with young kids so I really appreciate this methodologically sound work. Looking forward to dodger variation.
You've covered where to find kokanee, but it might be nice to have a guide on what the fish are doing through the season throughout the day from the fish perspective. I'm new but I'm coming to this from fish keeping and love both the biological understanding and fishing tips and really want to understand what's going on behaviorally with kokanee.
Thanks again so much! You've really helped me get started!
Thank your for your support. I have some season specific videos but I will try and do a more big perspective view on this although this video does broadly address that ruclips.net/video/z8wAY1i44vY/видео.html
@@spiltmiltahhh definitely covers it broadly. Thanks for the timestamp.
I have been waiting 52 years for this information...(accurate information)!
Awesome and thank you for your support!
Thank you for such great content and the breakdown on the methodology and assumptions in the data behind it. I just went to your store and purchased a chart. Definitely want to support the expenses and time you put into this.
Fantastic! Thank you!
Thanks! Your videos have really helped out with my Kokanee success rate.
Thanks Chris!
This is amazing information. Just what I was looking for. Going to have to buy some stickers!
Thanks Tyler. I just downloaded the charts and am on my way to purchase stickers for the boat. This is super useful info and to have it collected transparently from a science minded person such as yourself gives it great credibility.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks! Finally a chart I can trust!
Right? I feel the same way. LOL
Excellent, thank you for doing that. Just ordered some stickers.
Not all heroes wear cape, thank you for this. Hopefully I see you in merwin this summer.
Love your videos and thanks for this video. Looking forward to the 360 skateboards version of this chart for salmon.
Maybe doing a half ounce also. Thanks!
Great suggestion!
Good job. I have a Wilderness Radar 135 and 115 set up with downriggers and trolling motors. I was planning to try having my son cruise over my line and see if I can determine depth with the fish finder. When I get a chance I’ll give it a try and see how it compares to your data. Thanks for the info.
Let us know what you find out!
@@Nik-gh6gz I haven't checked with sonar yet but I gave the weights a first try and hit bottom when I shouldn't, so I'm definitely curious to see what results I get.
You're the best Tyler, Thanks!
Thank you!
Thanks for the creating the chart! The fishing knowledge that you've shared over the years has helped me to increase my success and enjoyment out on the water.
Well done sir! I think the fishing world can stand to benefit from statistical sampling. Only if if it's done according to a protocol. I use it more in a statistical transect manner based on current weather and water conditions.
Thanks for your great videos.
I appreciate that!
Wonderful content. Appreciate your time you've put into compliling these very helpful tables!
Chase big trout and mackinaw in my area too. Curious if youll put out a depth chart table for 2.0 to 2.5 mph with cannon balls up to 6 oz?
Thanks!
Keep at it Tyler!
Thanks!
I'll be curious to see how the dodger impacts these charts. I feel like it should make a big difference. I've noticed diver charts usually include language saying that flashers can impact actual depth. This makes sense, but I've always wondered how much.
As an engineer, I love this stuff.
I am curios too. In my experience tear drop dodgers in the 4.5" size tend to have fairly minimal impacts on depth but the 5.5" certainly create lift while skateboards tend to dive. All future questions to explore.
@@spiltmiltvery informative. I am really curious about dodger depth when long longing with no weight. I am hard core downrigger guy but had a real break through long ling in one particular lake, that is all they wanted. I found Paulina Peak PTT were great, other dodgers like thin Sling blades were no good, actually planned to the surface. Keep up the good work
Thanks! I've been using Trig. Have a sheet with protractor print/angle/depth chart. Comments? A little crude but in the ballpark similar to your old formula. Will compare. Printed PDF's for now. Thx again Tyler!
Thanks Joe!
Most excellent.
Appreciate your meticulous work brother! Thank you for that chart. In support bought one of your t shirts and a table . One of these days hope to meet you in the field. Any plans to fish for Banks lake whitefish through the ice? My favorite thing to do if we going to get ice this winter on that water. Blessings to you and your family!
Much appreciated!
Love your videos and appreciate all your knowledge that you share with everyone. Thank you so very much for these charts, this has always been a question of mine. During your test runs. How were you setting up the snap weights in location to the sensor? Typically you have your snap weight 20-30 feet from your gear. Did you replicate that? Were you using dodgers? Or were you just hooking the weight to the line by the sensor? Curious to know how that will affect the data. Again thanks for all you do and provide to us all.
Weight is next to the sensor. I did not replicate the 30' setback on the snap weight in this trial nor did I run dodgers. I will test dodger variations and their impacts at a future date.
Hi Tyler! I've never fished with weights, I've always used a downrigger or leadcore line. Do you have a video that shows what the clip weight system is that you mentioned? I think it'd be interesting to see what it looks like and how to rig it. Thanks for making these videos and teaching us how to fish smarter, not harder!
Right here! ruclips.net/video/qNQk-T0aVpg/видео.html
Appreciate the content! Sent you some $Thanks$ from Boise, ID
I bet you wished you had the Auto Pilot just for this lol. I’ll be printing these up and using the laminator at work just like I did with the old school “guess and go” chart I previously referenced.
Fn' Awesome, Thanks a lot sr!!
Cannonballs…I should have mentioned that sorry
@@spiltmilt you did. watching this for the third time to make sure I get it all. :) sorry.
Thanks for the work Tyler, any comment on the descrepancies between your data and "Precision Trollings"? I've spent the money on their dive curves but I noticed it's vastly different than what you found
I'm not sure how precision trolling verified all their data. I know they said they used scuba divers but did they verify depth along the entire curve or did they extrapolate from a few data points? That's the reason I wanted my own chart.
Great content and depth of trolling speeds knowledge. How can a get a copy of charts
You can get it here: spilt-milt-store.creator-spring.com/listing/depth-table-for-trolling-with
Where are you clipping the weight on the line? I’m new to your channel and i can’t seem to find a video explaining how far off your dodger you clipping on at. Thank you as you are making this journey a million times easier.
Check out this video Why I Love Snap Weights for Kokanee Fishing
ruclips.net/video/qNQk-T0aVpg/видео.html
@@spiltmilt Thank you my man!!
Great content 4 stickers bought. Any idea should this be similar for bottom bouncers for walleye?
I am typically trolling bottom bounces slower than 1.2 mph so they should drop a bit faster. Also I'm usually relying on the action of the rod indicate if I'm on the bottom anyways.
This is dynamite! I'm good for $10. Thanks for making this video.
Many Thanks for all your super helpful information. Looking at your chart I am baffled how 1 oz at 30' could be 8' down at 1.5mph and only 4' down at the slower 1.2mph.
Probably just measurement error. In reality very few people are going to be fishing with just 30’ of line out and biologically speaking in terms of fishing the difference between 4’ and 8’ deep is going to be negligible
@@spiltmilt In the early season (now) the fish in my area are being caught in 4-10 ft of water. I know some folks will run 80-90ft of line with a clip-weight at only 20-30ft back to target these shallow water fish. The downrigger folks are only down 6ft. So I'm trying to figure out the combinations that will accurately keep me in the 4-10ft range with 10lb test at 1.2mph
Hi big fan of you. Your the reason I pick up fishing for trout and kokanee... but I been skunking have not caught anything on my kayak yet been on the waters 4 tines already . I am using a leadcore line you got any advise for me about the depths and speed? Or can I also use lead weight clip with the leadcore line?
My first piece of advice is to get rid of the lead core. Where are you fishing? What’s the surface temps? Can you see fish on your fishfinder?
@@spiltmilt I'm fishing at a lake called shaver lake in California. It go as deep as 100 feet my fish finder would mark the kokanee around 60 feet at noon time when I was fishing the water temp at the time was around 72 degrees and the weather temp was 92 degree . I was using leadcore line with downrigger on kayak but couldn't get deep enough. By time I was around 45 feet the line keeps coming off the downrigger
@@spiltmilt I will get rid of the lead core what do you recommend? For line and weight?
Great video, would you guess using the 50/50 method with snap weights would yield similar results?
What is the 50/50 method?
It is the method off shore tackle uses for the snap weights they sell, they must be bigger in the Midwest. But basically you would let out 50 feet and apply your snap weight and then let out another 50 feet of line. So you’ll have 100 feet out which is a bit but it’s consistent
That really isn't relevant here. This is an absolute measure of where the weight is in the water column
Hey Tyler, one other question. How would line weight change the chart? I plan to use one of my heavier Kokanee rids for sockeye trolling, and I'd like to use 12 or 14# test on that rod. I assume a larger diameter line would provide a slightly more drag and pull the lure up in the water column a little, is that right? If yes, Im not sure if it would be a significant amount or if it would be negligible. Thanks!
Yes you’ll run a bit shallower with 12 lb but not by much
Ordered two. Jut a curious question - I use in-line banana sinkers which theoretically should produce sligntly less drag than a snap-on weight - but my guess is that it will not create much depth difference. Any thoughts?
I'd think banana weights would get you slightly deeper being more hydrodynamic.
A little devise called Fish hawke is invaluable for finding lure depth
I have one too! A very valuable tool.
Questions: How far from the flasher and lure do you put your snap weight on? Does the line out distance refer to the number of feet from the reel, the tip of the rod, the amount of line between the snap weight and the gear, or what?
The chart is based on distance from rod tip to weight. I typically let out 30’ of line then clip in
@@spiltmilt Thank you! Your videos are awesome. As a NW kayak fisherman, fishing is such an overwhelming learning curve and Im finally getting the hang of it especially thanks to your vids.
Tyler, maybe I missed it, but did you say where on the line you attach your snap weight to make the charts accurate? I assume close to the dodger?
No dodger. I clip the weight and the sensor right next to each other.
Right, so in a in a typical kokanee fishing situation seems like the weight would need to be close to the dodger for the chart info to apply@@spiltmilt
Tyler Hey I ordered those trolling graphs and never received, been two weeks. Any idea when they will be delivered? Brian
You'll need to check with Spring directly but if give me your order number I can check its status.
Does Anderson have kings in it.
I use 40lb braid with 6 ounces at 1.5mph on a sliding rig and I can see my setup on my fish finder. With a 100 feet of line I was around 75 feet deep. Considering my setup would be on the edge of my sonar cone, would it not be very reliable in giving me my correct depth? I would think line type would make a difference considering mono and braid have different densities, so maybe that's where my discrepancy starts?
40 lb braid and 10 lb Maxima have the same diameter of 0.012 inches. Mono is more buoyant and hydrophobic than braid so I think your 75' depths seems reasonable based on what I've observed.
@spiltmilt Wow, thank you for the assurance. It's crazy how many little variables there are.
As an engineer, I love data like this. But, if I was going to offer some unsolicited criticism, I would use the data logger as the 1oz weight, place it about where you normally would and put a dodger/lure rig behind it. Then add 1oz to the data logger for your 2oz measurement, etc. I think this would allow for the most accurate real world estimate of depth. But, regardless, the data you have provided is an invaluable tool. I look forward to future tests with gear.
As a statistician and someone with a basic understanding of physics (1 year of applied physics in college) it actually makes more sense to subtract the effect of the data logger rather than to use it in place of the 1 oz cannonball. The reason being is there is absolutely no way the density and drag created by the data logger in any way resembles that of a 1 oz lead cannonball.
@@spiltmilt well, I hated my physics classes in college, so you probably know better than me. I think the only way to know for sure is to send a diver down to physically measure it… I got a guy, I’ll send him over with a tape measure, haha.
I hated physics too but that is mostly because my professor seemed stoned most of the time and was more interested in hitting on girls in the class.
Are you tracking your speed with your fishfinder?
Yes
Why 10 lb test mono? I use much greater breaking strength but in braided line (but I use a downrigger, but the issue is still the same). Braided main line has the advantage of using thin line, but more strength vis a vis any mishaps that might occur when a fish is on. My leader is still mono.
Because 90% of Kokanee anglers use 10 lb mono
@@spiltmilt Interesting. Maybe it is a bit different up here in BC. I find that when the water is rough and things are flying around and getting tangled, the heavier mainline allows for easier maintenance of gear when chaos ensues. Particularly on heavy downrigging gear and it is windy and the boat is being blown around. I don't find that Kokanee are particularly leader shy which makes sense since they are striking lures and baits that in no way resemble Daphnia, which is their main food supply, at least after the Chironomid hatches have abated and the plankton blooms have started in the spring... Something different is working in the brain of a Kokanee (unlike say trout) which doesn't seem to require the angler to match the hatch for Kokes.
Tyler, did you include the weight of the data logger in your chart? Does 1oz on your figures mean a 1oz sinker plus the ~1oz data logger or just the logger?
Also, I appreciate your scientific approach to these sorts of questions. I ask my fishing buddies about stuff like this & get blank stares 😂
No its subtracted as I explain in the video.
Copy. I watched again and now understand. Not sure how I missed that the first time.
I'm finding that these tables vary quite widely from the troll master app. I'm left entirely uncertain what to trust.
What is their data based on? Are they transparent
@@spiltmilt For example. Using 30 lb braid, 2 oz cannonball on a slider, a paulina peak performance dodger and fly at 1.2 mph the app will give me about 69 feet to reach 35 feet deep. This varies rather widely with your chart which would, at best, require 150 feet. Again, not saying you're wrong, but it's just very different answers. You can imagine where my uncertainty comes from.
@@spiltmilt Sorry for the spam of notifications... I do acknowledge that there are many variables in play here that would impact the actual depths. The disparity is wide enough though to raise doubts.
Well I use tables and I catch fish I’m marking so that’s all I need. Not like I’m charging anything for mine
@@spiltmilt for sure. Being an analytical person from what I can gather I thought it would be somewhat interesting to hear the disparity between other tools. Zero offense intended. 🙂
I am perplexed about how with 1 oz at 20 - 50 feet of line out you get so much more depth at 1.5 mph as at 1.2.
Drag
@@spiltmilt Yes but I would expect it to have the opposite effect rather than turning the weight into a diver at higher speed.
Line drag creates lift
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