@@samholdsworth420 Cuba is still using cars that were mass produced 50 years ago, partially because they are stupid simple to repair & reliable. These old cars were mass produced only once, which is a whole lot greener than todays disposable mass production model.
@@mikecounsell salesmen work hard at relieving you of your hard earned then ignore you once the payment has cleared. Then a new shiny promise is rolled out, BUT you buy it again......and so on
My understanding was that it was intended for there to be sub-castings that could be cut and welded in at strategic locations for certain impacts. It's easiest to build from a gigacast, but for repairs you only need certain sub-casts. ...that's the intent...but currently those are not available to my knowledge. If someone fractures their gigacast (cough cough towing or doing stupid shit), they are a write off.
About the "repairability" issue. We Had same problem with my kids car. Minor hit in front, twisted some of the structure. Thought it was an easy fix, but insurance adjuster pointed out obvious problems and "totaled" the car. If we had chosen to repair it, it would have been almost double to repair, via local shop. I asked the adjuster who would do this, and she said that some people have a "personal attachment to their cars" and will spend extra money. We thought about this, since our car was well maintained otherwise and still good for another 50K-miles, but actually found a replacement online for about the totaled cost, and only put about 1K$ in repairs into it. Worked great for us then, maybe not in modern times.
That's because of all the BS modern cars are made of. Bumpers that cost over $5k for the plastics? Common! Headlights that are over $2k? Also common! The front end body parts, nothing structural, on an SUV can be worth $15000+ in parts only, no paint or labor! A $10 (STILL!) sealed beam headlight still meets DOT on older stuff. It's just a scam and new car owners are the suckers.
The other side of the coin is the same problem as in health "insurance" vendors, in this case body shops, have been inflating prices because they can, because an adjuster can either take a high estimate or total out the car.
@@whodat9198 A *VERY* large crash; a right-off. Lucky if you survive it. As opposed to most crashes where you generally get to walk away. I suspect that part of the crumple zone is to also protect the battery pack so that the likely trapped occupants (given the crash intensity) don't get burnt alive.
@@Clark-Mills Not so...the crumple zone is why most people walk away these days. It takes survivability up from street level crashes into freeway level crashes.
Thanks Sandy and Jordan. Really great review of Giga castings and their evolution. Hope the old OEMs can implement them soon. Looking forward to more videos as always. Lotsa love to all ❤❤❤
@@MunroLivewhat happened with this cracking on whistling diesel video, any thoughts on this? Does Cody have a point on cracking vs bending? Also, can Tesla probably fix the issue?
5:23 .. The latest showroom models here, are further upgraded, with lightweight cedar two by fours, used as cross members ... Rather than the construction grade spruce, shown.
Its not surprising they use own CFD because they have massive data crunching abilities and taking out F1 superlab will end up/already own THE best CFD.
CFD doesn't allow you to cheat material properties. All CFD can do is optimize for specific parameters - the more you optimize for a particular set, the more you lose in cases not covered. It's not some kind of magic that allows you to trade computing power for toughness.
As an Engineer who was unfortunate enough to graduate during Covid, I really love to see those videos and learn as much as possible! So please keep them technical! If you ever happen to make videos on general engineering including the formulas and so forth, sign me up!
As an engineer I explained how cast aluminium was not suitable for fixing a tow hitch too, every engineer would know this. And yes the rear cast on the C T has failed on at least 2 vehicles. I expect you will delete this comment also like my last one where I explained in detail why.
Whistle Dixie and it was reported on an E V channel by an Australian/English lawyer guy that a CT had also ripped the hitch off while towing on the highway, about 6 months ago...
Would like to see a discuss about the post of rear casting of cyberpunk trucks snapping from towing/impact. Is it expected from aluminium vs steel and is it acceptable
@@Chris-jt7xg A video where they jumped one 20 feet in the air then tried to use it to tow and when it broke, they were happy that it was clearly a bad design.
@@Chris-jt7xg He's probably talking about this entertainment channel where some guy flew the CT six feet in the air and landed its back repeatedly down on a slab of concrete. Not really a typical use case for a truck outside of a Hollywood set stunt perhaps.
@@MunroLive I’m a Tesla owner and a share holder as well. I’m still wanting a comment on whistling diesels test. My opinion is it should be recalled and a boxed steel rear frame as a replacement, or something to reinforce the casting. A toe hitch should not just crack off, even if the weight of the truck lands on it. I’ve done that myself with my model y, I hit something with the bike rack and it picked up the car.
I read about how the car absorbs the crash energy so that the occupants don’t. It’s very easy to exceed the entire cost of the car in medical bills, as well as lifelong injuries so… destroy the car, take care of the people.
When I changed my steel-frame bicycle for an aluminium one I felt the difference right away. During some time I had used them both and I understand the difference between hardness of the frame and how much energy does it save when you push the pedals. I bet almost the same thing is happening when you transmit the energy from the motor to the wheels of an EV
When mountain bike frames initially switched from steel to aluminum, I wonder what percentage of them developed stress cracks from the jumps? It might be interesting to hear how bike frame companies mitigated that.
@aussie2uGA I doubt that there was a big deal with aluminium frames at all from the very beginning (I could be wrong, correct me if so). I'm in MTB for 20 years already and I don't remember any issues with them. The cracks often occurred when someone tried to fix his bike without any knowledge and proper tools (almost the same was with carbon frames).
@@albert7311 With steel, there is a minimum stress level required to initiate cracking. With aluminum even the slightest stress, if repeated enough times, will cause crack creation/growth. Downhilling on a MB is constant repetitive flexing.
They didn't there is no way to do that as Aluminium doesn't have force threshold and will eventually fail given enough elastic deformation cycles. On hardtail MTBs the upper limit is around 25000 km of mixed driving, probably lot less if only riding off-road. Suspension can prolong the lfie of the frame, but they are finite unlike well made steel frames which will last hundreds of thousands of kilometers with no sign of cracks.
Sandy complaining about procurement and dies having to be "tuned" is so spot on!!! I wonder if it is a horse a piece between steel and aluminum. My life is aluminum.
The back's not supposed to fall off. It hardly ever does that, unless you try to tow something. Still needs some work. I'm all for aluminum gigacastings as a cheaper inferior substitute, if you can make the whole damn thing cheap enough to lower the price floor on new automobiles. As long as you add a sacrificial bit that can absorb fender benders.
I am very interested to see all the lessons learned over the past 2 years of designing Cybertruck, trickling down to the next iteration of Model Y ("Juniper).
It looks like with the Cybertruck, Tesla has widened their manufacturing advantage over the competition (a lot of so called "experts" expected the competition to catch up).
seriously which technology!? he said he doesnt care about towing which really shows how weack those castigns are! you watched wistlindiesel trying to destroy the trailer hitch of the ford f150 and he couldnt.
Another advantage of a casting instead of a conventional stamped steel unibody is rust. In a sheet metal construction there are many locations where there are several layers of sheet metal sandwiched together and welded. There is no way to get corrosion protection between these layers and that's where water collects and over time the vehicle rusts from between these layers until there is not enough structure to hold the unibody (frame) together. With an aluminum casting, you don't have these layered construction methods, plus you have a metal that is inherently less prone to corrosion.
Its great half the discussion is about the speed of decision making behind the innovations. Traditional companies have giant consensus meetings that make even modest change a battle
A simple explanation is that companies that make products with a high degree of liability are very reluctant to make changes that may cause their product to fail. They can require a great deal of long term testing to prove the changes will last. Say, for example, that you are a window manufacturer that has a 10 year warranty on the weathering performance of your windows. How willing are you to change over to the next great plastic covering without at least 5 or 10 years of weathering test results on the new plastic? Imagine having 2 million windows fail and you are responsible to replace them (including installation costs)!! Same thing in the Automotive business, except you can also be held responsible for dangerous product failures that are not under warranty. Years ago, just about every house siding manufacturer in the US had gone bankrupt at one time or another because of unforeseen product failure liabilities.
@MilushevGeorgi I've been somewhat worried about him. He definitely is looking and sounding better. I suspect the doctors have found better meds for him.
You might not want to hear this so don't read it: I was once enamored of Elon Musk; his apparent intelligence, his push for electric vehicles to replace ICE cars (seemed wise for the planet and next generations); Tesla's method of production and rapid iterations that improved efficiency; etc.. I watched Munro Live and learned more amazing things ref. Tesla. Now comes a bit of background. My mother was a riveter during WWII working at Stapleton Airfield in Denver, Colorado. She told me some stories about her work. One such story was that at work there was a "hush-hush" assignment she participated in. In other words, she wasn't able to tell anyone what she was doing at work. She worked on B-17s there at Stapleton. Turns out her work crew was installing.... [I don't know if it's OK to say now]... they were installing RADAR. RADAR to help U.S. Army Air Corps pilots to more effectively kill fascists, & knotzees. It [killing fascists and fascist supporters] was a nation-wide endeavor in the 1940's in America, even in 'A-Murcah.' Her father worked at Remington Arms, also in Denver, with the same mission: Help the U.S. military kill fascists and authoritarian leaders of Japan & Germany. Americans learned to abhor the leaders and soldiers of Germany and Japan. Thousands of Americans died in this effort to defeat authoritarian rulers; fascists (also Italians under Mussolini). It was a national fervor... this national repugnance for things fascist and white supremacy. Seemingly, this fervor lead to the Civil Rights movement of the 1950's-60's. This fervor was supported by US History. The history of the American colonies rejecting the rule of a king. In my family the despising of things fascist manifest in an older member (who faught in WWII) yell at and leave the room when he learned that another family member (a young-adult with not much income) had informed the older member that he had purchased a used Volkswagen (in approximately 1962)... you know VWs ... the car built by Germans... the X-fascist ruled Germans... hated murderers of Americans, British, French, Dutch, Polish, Russian, etc... I recognized the conflict but did not engage in the argument. However, I have learned by my familial environment growing up; and my study of U.S. History in school to feel that fascism was, and is STILL not a good thing. Fascism is a horrible thing and this is not just my opinion. Now for what you don't want to hear (if you dared to ignore my warning). Elon Musk is no longer enamored by me. He is an [expletive deleted] supporter of fascism; an active purveyor of fascism [i.e., DumbP]. Musk is siding with not only a fascist, but a self-confessed, adjudicated sexual predator. [By the way, I was taught, and know instinctively, to abhor sexual predators and report them to the authorities if I ever detect that behavior]. And this fascist abhorrence was shared by CANADIANS. I had a Canadian friend tell me, "If it wasn't for the Atom Bomb dropping on Japan, I was in a group of Canadian Army members trained to invade the mainland of Japan. I probably wouldn't be here today if that A-bomb had not been dropped." So what we have here in Elon Musk is a [expletives deleted... fascist enabler, supporter... more expletives deleted]. And in my abhorrence of him, what he stands for/supports, I have done the following: 1) Sold my shares of Tesla stock; 2) Am in the process of selling my Model Y; 3) Have unsubscribed to Monroe Live and Tesla Time News (Now you know), and other Tesla hangers-on; 4) Encouraged my relatives, friends, associates, people I come into contact with... to do the same. Isn't this a shame... a needless shame. For an Engineer to minimize as "political" these feelings is missing a WHOLE lot. For an Engineer to mock this abhorrence is an element of "Gaslighting." Gaslighting is what bullies do to remain powerful (though still an [expletive deleted]). I wish you all well... well some of you... for I warned you that you would not want to hear this and not to read this message. Bah bye.
These castings are fascinating, but why on earth haven’t they incorporated a sacrificial bolt or glue on crumple section at the front and rear? This would mean any small crash could be repaired fairly easily, as opposed to writing off the whole car?
If they are just casting the Cybertruck frame anyway is there any point to the steel skin at all? Can/will they move to a more conventional (+lighter +longer range) design?
with the casting shown at 7:00, has Munro put any thought how a 2 piece mould with one held fixed and one moving produces castings with pockets as shown. The half castings shown at 1:25 would be fine for the 2 piece moulds, but the full with castings at 3.41, and 7:00 show that there would be impossible for a 2 piece moulds with the pockets and gussets
Can't wait to hear Sandy pontificate on the 6 new standard connectors Tesla just announced and are sharing with the legacy OEM and supplier universe to help move the industry to 48 volt architecture.
The only reason Tesla went 48 volt was for the steer by wire system. It's going to take quite a while for other manufacturers to get to that point. Until then 12 volts is plenty, unless you're done doing something really high end like the Mercedes active suspension.
The model 3 is a partial development cycle behind the Y. Also the Y is the highest volume car so it makes most sense for them to put their biggest cost save tech into the Y.
Musk has stated other manufacturers will catch up to their tech but their production costs and speeds will always be ahead. Production line 2.0. Almost totally autonomous 24/7 with less machines and parts.
We have a whole political group that is allergic to truth and science and engineering... Amazed that people are trying to cancel Elon. It's so messed up. I don't like his cars, but It looks like he figured out how to make cars more efficient.
Eh, he made a lot of people angry when he backed Trump and went to rally's, put up $1M bribes to vote Red. Etc. But it goes back to prior to his purchase of Twitter. Although that transaction earned him the most hate when he realized the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and was force to complete the buyout. So he fired everyone who was not immediately necessary for the company survival.
whistling diesel did a great real world review on these cast alum frames, they won't bend is the good news, but he proved why no other company ever did a cast alum frame, they are very brittle and make it easy for the vehicle to be totaled. LOL the giga-MINI factory where they are hacked together.
I think the future eveloution of these casting will be a page from aerospace. If a jet is designed into a (QEC) for rapid replacement, it will serve the cyber cab excellently. Imagine swapping out a front or rear clip in ten minutes. The in service time would go through the roof. Module rehab could be a whole new industry. I wish my vehicles had this ability.
And if either of these components snap, I doubt you will be going anywhere but the scrap yard, that's if you survive an impact hard enough to break one.
@@mrlemm2030 The problem is not with the castings but the collision repair industry. Cars built with the large casting are bolted together. Unbolt the damage and bolt on new parts. This destroys their existing model. One could setup a repair center much like a factory when a damaged car could be repaired in a few hours instead of days. Another example of resistance to change by people making money on the status quo.
Innovation is what I admire about Tesla/ Elon. I believe the reason Tesla can get things done so quickly is that Elon isn't just an owner. He's an engineer and someone who encourages his employees to think outside the box. Where other manufacturers are bogged down with endless meetings and red tape.
@kevinlucas8437 I believe that there are instructions at Tesla that in the event you find yourself in a meeting where you have no useful input, or interest in the subject, walk out.
Elon is not an engineer. He has a BS in Physics which gives him a scientific background to understand the processes, but he has a glaring weakness in actually doing the work it takes to accomplish his "vision". He has a tendency to over simplify and over commit advancements so much that sometimes it tends to become lying. Being able to make swift changes can be good, but actually understanding the complications that come with these changes are another issue. As with SpaceX, many of these changes are not tested enough to ensure their actual performance or reliability.
9:12 It looks like they've built in the beginnings of a crumple wave- the vertical front bit is caved in a little and the load rails have that wave pattern... Like he said, "Water formed"? And, do all those 1/4" holes aid in cooling the part faster when it pops out of the mold?
The Chinese are working on Magnesium mega castings, which may be the holy grail of castings for longevity, weight saving and vibration mitigation. Once perfected, it’s just the cost to work on…..
This casted pieces are what makes Teslas so difficult to fix after the collision. Driving the insurance costs up and bringing a throw away culture where there wasn't one.
My 1996 Subaru got hit at about 20 MPH, didn't look too bad, some bumper damage, head lights gone, easy fix right? Totalled. I asked the inspector and he pointed out a tiny dimple in a energy absorbing member, less than 1/2". That was the damage that ruined the whole car. Long before Tesla meant anything but the inventor of the AC motor. We collectively decided that we would prefer to live through a crash than have our cars do so. Wisely in my opinion. The cost of fixing humans is vastly more than the cost of replacing a car.
you're probably looking forward to the self-driving car. Once humans and all of their mistakes and emotional responses are removed, insurance will surely go down.
@@oliverheaviside2539 I was thinking of cars in general. There are Model S Teslas with over 400,000 miles, they could probably go a million with enough new parts.
@@Everythingisgoingtobealright If you look into those high mile Teslas they all have had motor and battery pack replacements which is VERY expensive. The 1.2 million mile tesla has been through 14 motors and 4 battery packs. The packs did about 300,000 miles a piece and it costs around $10,000 to replace, up to $20,000. My 1982 corolla is on it's original powertrain with no rebuilds at 260,000 miles. It will likely make it to 300,000+ before I rebuild the engine and that will only cost a few hundred dollars. My 1993 Chevy 1500 is at 190,000 miles and will probably need a rebuild by 250,000. Once again I can rebuild the motor for a few hundred dollars.
@@Alobster1 I believe the Model S you’re talking about was an early car and everything has been covered by the warranty. I hoping to get 350k on my 2012 F150 5.0. Plenty of vehicles running around with 300-400k miles on original motors.
Would love to hear your take on the casting fracturing near the hitch during the WhistlinDiesel torture test. Obviously abuse, but nonetheless, the cross section there is surprisingly thin for attaching heavy loads and the inevitability of SOME impact forces.
That happened when the Cybertruck was driving off the large culvert, and the back fell down to the ground from more than 2 ft up, landed on the hitch. This was a huge impact, like something you could experience once in years of off-roading.
They didn't mention the Cybertruck's issue with the rear casting shearing off from vertical loads! seems like a HUGE design flaw that I wish they would of covered.
If you’re talking about “that video” then it wasn’t just any old vertical load. Any vehicle would have been structurally compromised, maybe terminally, by that level of abuse…
@@skwdenyerno that is not correct, they did far worse to the Ford .... that didn't break, also if you happen to be behind one and it happened, and it wiped you out with your family on board, I doubt you would be saying this..
@@skwdenyer Its common to hit the rear or hitch in many trucks and they are fine for many years later . Cast Aluminum is simply different and dangerous to use on the frame of a truck
These castings are engineering marvels. No doubt. Repairability is zero though.
Tesla will repair it for you 😉
ease of Repairability is more 'green'
@@MonstroLabnothing green about mass production lol
@@samholdsworth420 Cuba is still using cars that were mass produced 50 years ago, partially because they are stupid simple to repair & reliable. These old cars were mass produced only once, which is a whole lot greener than todays disposable mass production model.
A perfect description of Elon Musk
You get a ⭐️ with 🎂
I love how Sandy say hello boys and girls. Make me feel like I am back in school again and still learning 😊
Sit up straight!
Who ever thought someone at his age will lead such a young modern society I love the way he prefers touch screens over anything.
He makes me feel included as well…
One of the best feelings, for me at least.
For those readers of Sandy's age group; we know the opening line from the TV show 'Howde Doody' Show
You didn’t ask about metal fatigue ? The sales guy will give probably a “it’s strong” answer
Such a pleasure to listen to experts pour over the output of experts.
Such a pleasure to see peeps who are good at something
@@mikecounsell salesmen work hard at relieving you of your hard earned then ignore you once the payment has cleared. Then a new shiny promise is rolled out, BUT you buy it again......and so on
@@davidpearn5925
Are you okay?
"slightly" biased experts, though
@@mikecounsell the end of Tesla auto (the bit that makes money) is nigh. Having a functioning CEO might have been a good idea.
Always appreciate Sandy's outlook and knowledge.
My biggest issue with the giga castings is repairability a very small collision can completely total 850 to 60 to 70,000 car
Not true.
@@erikowren7894 how its not true?
@@zurielheros8872i’d love to hear this as well but my guess is he has no clue or else he would’ve answered why.
My understanding was that it was intended for there to be sub-castings that could be cut and welded in at strategic locations for certain impacts. It's easiest to build from a gigacast, but for repairs you only need certain sub-casts. ...that's the intent...but currently those are not available to my knowledge. If someone fractures their gigacast (cough cough towing or doing stupid shit), they are a write off.
@@erikowren7894 oh ok, it turns out if the repairs to restore a car to functionality exceeds the value of the car it ISNT totaled. good news everyone!
those castings are just insane
Thanks for the well-delivered video guys!
About the "repairability" issue. We Had same problem with my kids car. Minor hit in front, twisted some of the structure. Thought it was an easy fix, but insurance adjuster pointed out obvious problems and "totaled" the car. If we had chosen to repair it, it would have been almost double to repair, via local shop. I asked the adjuster who would do this, and she said that some people have a "personal attachment to their cars" and will spend extra money. We thought about this, since our car was well maintained otherwise and still good for another 50K-miles, but actually found a replacement online for about the totaled cost, and only put about 1K$ in repairs into it. Worked great for us then, maybe not in modern times.
That's because of all the BS modern cars are made of. Bumpers that cost over $5k for the plastics? Common! Headlights that are over $2k? Also common! The front end body parts, nothing structural, on an SUV can be worth $15000+ in parts only, no paint or labor! A $10 (STILL!) sealed beam headlight still meets DOT on older stuff. It's just a scam and new car owners are the suckers.
The other side of the coin is the same problem as in health "insurance" vendors, in this case body shops, have been inflating prices because they can, because an adjuster can either take a high estimate or total out the car.
Oh, and what happened to saving the planet? With that attitude we can just continue to drive gas cars and forget about all of this high tech bs.
Good video! I am looking forward to Sandy's reaction when the Model 2 tear down begins. 👍👍🇨🇦
Great run through of the evolution, great presenter as well, well done with the show Sandy👌
8:52 Crumple accordion zone in a casting; obviously for very high energy events - nice work and great to see. Thank you.
It’s for a crash.
@oggyoggy1299 that's what a high energy event is....
@@whodat9198 A *VERY* large crash; a right-off. Lucky if you survive it. As opposed to most crashes where you generally get to walk away. I suspect that part of the crumple zone is to also protect the battery pack so that the likely trapped occupants (given the crash intensity) don't get burnt alive.
@@Clark-Mills Not so...the crumple zone is why most people walk away these days. It takes survivability up from street level crashes into freeway level crashes.
Sandy, please address the towing issue where the rear casting is snapping off. Tesla needs a fix for this.
Sandy and Jordan, thank you for the information on castings and how it has evolved/improved in Tesla vehicles.
Thanks Sandy and Jordan. Really great review of Giga castings and their evolution. Hope the old OEMs can implement them soon. Looking forward to more videos as always. Lotsa love to all ❤❤❤
What benefit do these castings bring to your life? Do they make the vehicles less expensive? Safer? Cheaper to repair?
Great presentation overtime with the gigacastings. Short sweet and to the point- love it!
Thanks for watching!
@@MunroLivewhat happened with this cracking on whistling diesel video, any thoughts on this?
Does Cody have a point on cracking vs bending? Also, can Tesla probably fix the issue?
5:23 .. The latest showroom models here, are further upgraded, with lightweight cedar two by fours, used as cross members ... Rather than the construction grade spruce, shown.
Maybe the steel towing hitch should have suspension so impacts are not carried over to the aluminum...
I Can’t believe i almost missed this, Appreciate the quick update my man!
Great observation, great video! Thank You.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks for always keeping us updated.
Thanks for the update
Its not surprising they use own CFD because they have massive data crunching abilities and taking out F1 superlab will end up/already own THE best CFD.
CFD doesn't allow you to cheat material properties. All CFD can do is optimize for specific parameters - the more you optimize for a particular set, the more you lose in cases not covered. It's not some kind of magic that allows you to trade computing power for toughness.
You guys cover such great detail. I hope the cars are affordable and repairable! Otherwise, insurance will be crazy
Tesla eliminated 600 robots when implementing giga-castings….🕺
That's the whole factory, not just the castings
Now the robots are going on strike because automation eliminates their jobs
@@lightningdemolition1964 haha, probably being re-trained as super soldiers.
And a lot of presses and tooling to stamp the steel. Oh and assembly stations/lines to put those hundreds of parts into subassemblies…
@@aussie2uGA or COVID cops and Hunters for Harris opponents
As an Engineer who was unfortunate enough to graduate during Covid, I really love to see those videos and learn as much as possible! So please keep them technical!
If you ever happen to make videos on general engineering including the formulas and so forth, sign me up!
As an engineer I explained how cast aluminium was not suitable for fixing a tow hitch too, every engineer would know this. And yes the rear cast on the C T has failed on at least 2 vehicles. I expect you will delete this comment also like my last one where I explained in detail why.
@@mrlemm2030 I know of at least one case where this happened, but which incidents are you talking about?
Whistle Dixie and it was reported on an E V channel by an Australian/English lawyer guy that a CT had also ripped the hitch off while towing on the highway, about 6 months ago...
I also explained it on Zack 9778 comment.
@@mrlemm2030 Do you have the name of that channel?
Would like to see a discuss about the post of rear casting of cyberpunk trucks snapping from towing/impact. Is it expected from aluminium vs steel and is it acceptable
What’s an example of one snapping from towing?
@@Chris-jt7xg A video where they jumped one 20 feet in the air then tried to use it to tow and when it broke, they were happy that it was clearly a bad design.
@@Chris-jt7xgHe be referring to Whistlindiesel's video about the Cybertruck 😅
Whistling diesel is an idiot, but I would like at least a little bit of an explanation also. Especially considering my truck will be here soon.
@@Chris-jt7xg He's probably talking about this entertainment channel where some guy flew the CT six feet in the air and landed its back repeatedly down on a slab of concrete.
Not really a typical use case for a truck outside of a Hollywood set stunt perhaps.
This was a great.
Thank you gentlemen!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@MunroLive
I really did. Learned a lot from this discussion. I own a 3 and a Y and still get excited about Tesla’s latest tech.
@@MunroLive I’m a Tesla owner and a share holder as well. I’m still wanting a comment on whistling diesels test.
My opinion is it should be recalled and a boxed steel rear frame as a replacement, or something to reinforce the casting.
A toe hitch should not just crack off, even if the weight of the truck lands on it.
I’ve done that myself with my model y, I hit something with the bike rack and it picked up the car.
It would be nice if you addressed repair costs after an accident. Appears to me that almost any crash totals the car.
including whatever you're driving now
Sandy HAS "commented" on this subject at great length, numerous times.
Try searching for those comments on the channel?
Just get the GAP and move on.
I read about how the car absorbs the crash energy so that the occupants don’t.
It’s very easy to exceed the entire cost of the car in medical bills, as well as lifelong injuries so… destroy the car, take care of the people.
@@scottaxness3971not everybody lives in America😏
Welcome back sandy❤
Great analysis, thank you!
Thanks!
Thank you for your support!
When I changed my steel-frame bicycle for an aluminium one I felt the difference right away. During some time I had used them both and I understand the difference between hardness of the frame and how much energy does it save when you push the pedals. I bet almost the same thing is happening when you transmit the energy from the motor to the wheels of an EV
When mountain bike frames initially switched from steel to aluminum, I wonder what percentage of them developed stress cracks from the jumps? It might be interesting to hear how bike frame companies mitigated that.
@aussie2uGA I doubt that there was a big deal with aluminium frames at all from the very beginning (I could be wrong, correct me if so). I'm in MTB for 20 years already and I don't remember any issues with them. The cracks often occurred when someone tried to fix his bike without any knowledge and proper tools (almost the same was with carbon frames).
There are a few videos on RUclips of aluminium frames shattering under the extreme stress of downhill mountain biking.
@@albert7311 With steel, there is a minimum stress level required to initiate cracking. With aluminum even the slightest stress, if repeated enough times, will cause crack creation/growth. Downhilling on a MB is constant repetitive flexing.
They didn't there is no way to do that as Aluminium doesn't have force threshold and will eventually fail given enough elastic deformation cycles. On hardtail MTBs the upper limit is around 25000 km of mixed driving, probably lot less if only riding off-road. Suspension can prolong the lfie of the frame, but they are finite unlike well made steel frames which will last hundreds of thousands of kilometers with no sign of cracks.
thanks Sandy, another great story about Tesla....
Fantastic video, Einsteins
Sandy complaining about procurement and dies having to be "tuned" is so spot on!!! I wonder if it is a horse a piece between steel and aluminum. My life is aluminum.
Big Sign saying "sharp edges, do not touch".
Sandy touches anyway.
If you know where the sharp edges are, no problem.
Cant wait to see the 2 seat robo taxi casting
The back's not supposed to fall off. It hardly ever does that, unless you try to tow something. Still needs some work.
I'm all for aluminum gigacastings as a cheaper inferior substitute, if you can make the whole damn thing cheap enough to lower the price floor on new automobiles. As long as you add a sacrificial bit that can absorb fender benders.
I am very interested to see all the lessons learned over the past 2 years of designing Cybertruck, trickling down to the next iteration of Model Y ("Juniper).
good job
That thing looks like a little kid built it in his backyard out of Plywood.
It looks like with the Cybertruck, Tesla has widened their manufacturing advantage over the competition (a lot of so called "experts" expected the competition to catch up).
Tesla and Munro...innovation and expert analysis at its finest.
🙋♂️THANKS SANDY,JORDAN AND MUNRO FOR THIS 🤗😎🧐EDUCATION AND THE PROGRESS OF TESLA USING TECHNOLOGY, AND WE WILL BE HAPPY 😊 TO LEARN…WHAT IS NEXT 💚💚💚
seriously which technology!? he said he doesnt care about towing which really shows how weack those castigns are! you watched wistlindiesel trying to destroy the trailer hitch of the ford f150 and he couldnt.
That associate is FIT!
6-pack versus 1 pack...
Another advantage of a casting instead of a conventional stamped steel unibody is rust. In a sheet metal construction there are many locations where there are several layers of sheet metal sandwiched together and welded. There is no way to get corrosion protection between these layers and that's where water collects and over time the vehicle rusts from between these layers until there is not enough structure to hold the unibody (frame) together. With an aluminum casting, you don't have these layered construction methods, plus you have a metal that is inherently less prone to corrosion.
so why does the rear fall off when you tow?
Those castings are beautiful.
Who care what a part inside your frame looks like, what matters is how durable it is, and how repairable it is.
@@hankkingsley9183 I should have said, beautifully engineered. I didn't mean to say they look pretty.
I was never into engineering. But then came Elon. And Sandy showed me.
Its great half the discussion is about the speed of decision making behind the innovations. Traditional companies have giant consensus meetings that make even modest change a battle
A simple explanation is that companies that make products with a high degree of liability are very reluctant to make changes that may cause their product to fail. They can require a great deal of long term testing to prove the changes will last. Say, for example, that you are a window manufacturer that has a 10 year warranty on the weathering performance of your windows. How willing are you to change over to the next great plastic covering without at least 5 or 10 years of weathering test results on the new plastic? Imagine having 2 million windows fail and you are responsible to replace them (including installation costs)!! Same thing in the Automotive business, except you can also be held responsible for dangerous product failures that are not under warranty. Years ago, just about every house siding manufacturer in the US had gone bankrupt at one time or another because of unforeseen product failure liabilities.
Somehow Sandy is getting younger, fresher
@MilushevGeorgi I've been somewhat worried about him. He definitely is looking and sounding better. I suspect the doctors have found better meds for him.
@ for real he is reversing
You might not want to hear this so don't read it: I was once enamored of Elon Musk; his apparent intelligence, his push for electric vehicles to replace ICE cars (seemed wise for the planet and next generations); Tesla's method of production and rapid iterations that improved efficiency; etc.. I watched Munro Live and learned more amazing things ref. Tesla. Now comes a bit of background. My mother was a riveter during WWII working at Stapleton Airfield in Denver, Colorado. She told me some stories about her work. One such story was that at work there was a "hush-hush" assignment she participated in. In other words, she wasn't able to tell anyone what she was doing at work. She worked on B-17s there at Stapleton. Turns out her work crew was installing.... [I don't know if it's OK to say now]... they were installing RADAR. RADAR to help U.S. Army Air Corps pilots to more effectively kill fascists, & knotzees. It [killing fascists and fascist supporters] was a nation-wide endeavor in the 1940's in America, even in 'A-Murcah.' Her father worked at Remington Arms, also in Denver, with the same mission: Help the U.S. military kill fascists and authoritarian leaders of Japan & Germany. Americans learned to abhor the leaders and soldiers of Germany and Japan. Thousands of Americans died in this effort to defeat authoritarian rulers; fascists (also Italians under Mussolini). It was a national fervor... this national repugnance for things fascist and white supremacy. Seemingly, this fervor lead to the Civil Rights movement of the 1950's-60's. This fervor was supported by US History. The history of the American colonies rejecting the rule of a king. In my family the despising of things fascist manifest in an older member (who faught in WWII) yell at and leave the room when he learned that another family member (a young-adult with not much income) had informed the older member that he had purchased a used Volkswagen (in approximately 1962)... you know VWs ... the car built by Germans... the X-fascist ruled Germans... hated murderers of Americans, British, French, Dutch, Polish, Russian, etc... I recognized the conflict but did not engage in the argument. However, I have learned by my familial environment growing up; and my study of U.S. History in school to feel that fascism was, and is STILL not a good thing. Fascism is a horrible thing and this is not just my opinion.
Now for what you don't want to hear (if you dared to ignore my warning). Elon Musk is no longer enamored by me. He is an [expletive deleted] supporter of fascism; an active purveyor of fascism [i.e., DumbP]. Musk is siding with not only a fascist, but a self-confessed, adjudicated sexual predator. [By the way, I was taught, and know instinctively, to abhor sexual predators and report them to the authorities if I ever detect that behavior].
And this fascist abhorrence was shared by CANADIANS. I had a Canadian friend tell me, "If it wasn't for the Atom Bomb dropping on Japan, I was in a group of Canadian Army members trained to invade the mainland of Japan. I probably wouldn't be here today if that A-bomb had not been dropped."
So what we have here in Elon Musk is a [expletives deleted... fascist enabler, supporter... more expletives deleted]. And in my abhorrence of him, what he stands for/supports, I have done the following:
1) Sold my shares of Tesla stock; 2) Am in the process of selling my Model Y; 3) Have unsubscribed to Monroe Live and Tesla Time News (Now you know), and other Tesla hangers-on; 4) Encouraged my relatives, friends, associates, people I come into contact with... to do the same.
Isn't this a shame... a needless shame.
For an Engineer to minimize as "political" these feelings is missing a WHOLE lot. For an Engineer to mock this abhorrence is an element of "Gaslighting." Gaslighting is what bullies do to remain powerful (though still an [expletive deleted]).
I wish you all well... well some of you... for I warned you that you would not want to hear this and not to read this message.
Bah bye.
P.S.: You're welcome.
White dots? Scanning aid?
Yes, they're for 3D scanning.
Yes
These castings are fascinating, but why on earth haven’t they incorporated a sacrificial bolt or glue on crumple section at the front and rear? This would mean any small crash could be repaired fairly easily, as opposed to writing off the whole car?
If they are just casting the Cybertruck frame anyway is there any point to the steel skin at all? Can/will they move to a more conventional (+lighter +longer range) design?
Is that an Aerogel poster on the wall above Sandy?
Looks like an Aerogel on top of a Dandelion
with the casting shown at 7:00, has Munro put any thought how a 2 piece mould with one held fixed and one moving produces castings with pockets as shown. The half castings shown at 1:25 would be fine for the 2 piece moulds, but the full with castings at 3.41, and 7:00 show that there would be impossible for a 2 piece moulds with the pockets and gussets
How much does collision repair factor into these cast parts? I love the idea but I cant imagine is cost effective to repair.
Tesla would know how much production floor space the old design took up vs the new design.
Sandy talks in slow motion 😳😳😳
Chery Auto is gigacasting the entire underbody. Honda is also gigacasting beginning with their next EV.
Chery is using a VERY high pressure to do that.... Time will tell.
Honda? Probably a Toyota part that *They* will get from BYD (/s)
@@rogerstarkey5390 They're talking about a press with 13,000 tons of clamping force.. Not the pressure of the injection.
Can't wait to hear Sandy pontificate on the 6 new standard connectors Tesla just announced and are sharing with the legacy OEM and supplier universe to help move the industry to 48 volt architecture.
The only reason Tesla went 48 volt was for the steer by wire system. It's going to take quite a while for other manufacturers to get to that point. Until then 12 volts is plenty, unless you're done doing something really high end like the Mercedes active suspension.
Sandy back? im in.
So why no castings for model 3.
The model 3 is a partial development cycle behind the Y. Also the Y is the highest volume car so it makes most sense for them to put their biggest cost save tech into the Y.
Castings are in the Model 3 Highland that has been on sale for many months. Tesla is always updating designs.
Ordered mine years ago, but when it will come to the UK 🤷♂️🤔
Musk has stated other manufacturers will catch up to their tech but their production costs and speeds will always be ahead. Production line 2.0. Almost totally autonomous 24/7 with less machines and parts.
Thanks for the advice! Got xAI66x, feeling bullish! 🚀
We have a whole political group that is allergic to truth and science and engineering... Amazed that people are trying to cancel Elon. It's so messed up. I don't like his cars, but It looks like he figured out how to make cars more efficient.
Government uses media and mega corporations to demonize him. It uses them to do what it can't do directly. It's proven effective unfortunately.
Eh, he made a lot of people angry when he backed Trump and went to rally's, put up $1M bribes to vote Red. Etc.
But it goes back to prior to his purchase of Twitter. Although that transaction earned him the most hate when he realized the company was on the verge of bankruptcy and was force to complete the buyout. So he fired everyone who was not immediately necessary for the company survival.
The attachment of a tow bar assembly to an aluminum casting is a failure point that shouldn't have been considered.
Do the cars rattles less now? My MYP 22 is so noisy / cabin noise. Major reason I want to upgrade soon
I have a German made MYP, late 22, no rattle.
I got a CT and know where the NVH is for the most part. Haven't mentioned it to Tesla or tried to remedy it yet.
My Austin built 2022 MY LR has no rattles.
SO why did the rear end get ripped off in that video?
I genuinely think xAI66x will be the breakthrough for this run
I think you guys missed a great opportunity to address the hitch failure situation. You already have videos glazing up the gigacastings.
🔥
00:08:22 Was the white, 4 door, truck chassis an example of a more conventional cyber truck option?
I now realize that the white chassis is not related to a Tesla product. Your engineering is impressive.
Has Munro commented on the instances of the CyberTruck tow hitch being torn from the truck?
Perfect fixture every time, that can be used in arhitecture?
whistling diesel did a great real world review on these cast alum frames, they won't bend is the good news, but he proved why no other company ever did a cast alum frame, they are very brittle and make it easy for the vehicle to be totaled. LOL the giga-MINI factory where they are hacked together.
I think the future eveloution of these casting will be a page from aerospace. If a jet is designed into a (QEC) for rapid replacement, it will serve the cyber cab excellently. Imagine swapping out a front or rear clip in ten minutes. The in service time would go through the roof. Module rehab could be a whole new industry. I wish my vehicles had this ability.
Tesla is moving in that direction. A non Tesla tradeshow booth demonstrated how a model 3 was a stack up of modules.
And if either of these components snap, I doubt you will be going anywhere but the scrap yard, that's if you survive an impact hard enough to break one.
@@mrlemm2030 The problem is not with the castings but the collision repair industry. Cars built with the large casting are bolted together. Unbolt the damage and bolt on new parts. This destroys their existing model. One could setup a repair center much like a factory when a damaged car could be repaired in a few hours instead of days.
Another example of resistance to change by people making money on the status quo.
It's injection molding to me, moulding liquid molten metal under pressure, rather than casting, which usually relies on gravity and one atmosphere.
*Laughs in Whistlindiesel*
Love how he says he doesn't care about towing and skips over the rear casting which is failing catastrophically under normal use
Always great analysis.
When just 1 cast for 1 whole car?
Mattel did that with Hot Wheels.
Innovation is what I admire about Tesla/ Elon. I believe the reason Tesla can get things done so quickly is that Elon isn't just an owner. He's an engineer and someone who encourages his employees to think outside the box. Where other manufacturers are bogged down with endless meetings and red tape.
Elon dosen't own tesla. he is the CEO. tesla is owned by shareholders
@kevinlucas8437
I believe that there are instructions at Tesla that in the event you find yourself in a meeting where you have no useful input, or interest in the subject, walk out.
@@keithrose7209
In the same way that ... GM... is "Owned by the shareholders"....
BUT there's a difference.... somewhere?
@@grahammonk8013
Correct (And great use of the example!! 😉
Elon is not an engineer. He has a BS in Physics which gives him a scientific background to understand the processes, but he has a glaring weakness in actually doing the work it takes to accomplish his "vision". He has a tendency to over simplify and over commit advancements so much that sometimes it tends to become lying. Being able to make swift changes can be good, but actually understanding the complications that come with these changes are another issue. As with SpaceX, many of these changes are not tested enough to ensure their actual performance or reliability.
9:12 It looks like they've built in the beginnings of a crumple wave- the vertical front bit is caved in a little and the load rails have that wave pattern... Like he said, "Water formed"?
And, do all those 1/4" holes aid in cooling the part faster when it pops out of the mold?
I don't think they are holes. They look like stickers that are reflective for use with 3D scanning?
The Chinese are working on Magnesium mega castings, which may be the holy grail of castings for longevity, weight saving and vibration mitigation. Once perfected, it’s just the cost to work on…..
This casted pieces are what makes Teslas so difficult to fix after the collision. Driving the insurance costs up and bringing a throw away culture where there wasn't one.
You have no clue
@@rogerstarkey5390 very insightful comment.
My 1996 Subaru got hit at about 20 MPH, didn't look too bad, some bumper damage, head lights gone, easy fix right? Totalled. I asked the inspector and he pointed out a tiny dimple in a energy absorbing member, less than 1/2". That was the damage that ruined the whole car. Long before Tesla meant anything but the inventor of the AC motor. We collectively decided that we would prefer to live through a crash than have our cars do so. Wisely in my opinion. The cost of fixing humans is vastly more than the cost of replacing a car.
@@ukrytykrytyk8477 Irony from the guy repeating talking points about Teslas that work the same for Tesla as 👏any👏other👏unibody👏vehicle👏on👏the👏market👏
you're probably looking forward to the self-driving car. Once humans and all of their mistakes and emotional responses are removed, insurance will surely go down.
Gotta love the disposable car...
Cars last far longer today than any time in the past.
@@Everythingisgoingtobealright I have a 33 year old Acura Legend that is still going strong. I bet you wont see a CT or other EV in thirty plus years.
@@oliverheaviside2539
I was thinking of cars in general. There are Model S Teslas with over 400,000 miles, they could probably go a million with enough new parts.
@@Everythingisgoingtobealright If you look into those high mile Teslas they all have had motor and battery pack replacements which is VERY expensive. The 1.2 million mile tesla has been through 14 motors and 4 battery packs. The packs did about 300,000 miles a piece and it costs around $10,000 to replace, up to $20,000. My 1982 corolla is on it's original powertrain with no rebuilds at 260,000 miles. It will likely make it to 300,000+ before I rebuild the engine and that will only cost a few hundred dollars. My 1993 Chevy 1500 is at 190,000 miles and will probably need a rebuild by 250,000. Once again I can rebuild the motor for a few hundred dollars.
@@Alobster1
I believe the Model S you’re talking about was an early car and everything has been covered by the warranty. I hoping to get 350k on my 2012 F150 5.0. Plenty of vehicles running around with 300-400k miles on original motors.
There is no project like xAI66x...it is literally owned by Elon Musk
Too bad Musk can’t keep his love of apartheid and authoritarian figures to himself. He may have to move his headquarters to Putin’s Russia.
🚨🚨🚨don’t be fooled
Mass production is tough for sure
Would love to hear your take on the casting fracturing near the hitch during the WhistlinDiesel torture test. Obviously abuse, but nonetheless, the cross section there is surprisingly thin for attaching heavy loads and the inevitability of SOME impact forces.
That happened when the Cybertruck was driving off the large culvert, and the back fell down to the ground from more than 2 ft up, landed on the hitch. This was a huge impact, like something you could experience once in years of off-roading.
I'm aware. But potholes are real, and aluminum fatigues and fractures more than steel.
I’ve hear that hitch failure has occurred 3x now out of the initial run. That is very concerning
yes the engineers may have to find a new solution to support the hitch receiver further into the unibody (if I can call it unibody?)
@@ancientsymbol Do you have details?
Purchased! I just found out from a friend who works at Elon Musk that the early bird bonus is real. When the presale ends, prices will skyrocket.
EV prices are ratcheting downward due to efficiencies and battery cost.
8:30 ...wait cast in ALUMINUM? I thought this was a resin composite you guys were talking about.
Great
They didn't mention the Cybertruck's issue with the rear casting shearing off from vertical loads! seems like a HUGE design flaw that I wish they would of covered.
If you’re talking about “that video” then it wasn’t just any old vertical load. Any vehicle would have been structurally compromised, maybe terminally, by that level of abuse…
@@skwdenyerno that is not correct, they did far worse to the Ford .... that didn't break, also if you happen to be behind one and it happened, and it wiped you out with your family on board, I doubt you would be saying this..
@@skwdenyer Its common to hit the rear or hitch in many trucks and they are fine for many years later . Cast Aluminum is simply different and dangerous to use on the frame of a truck
Glad Jordan took Cory's place . Much more likable
I’ve seen many projects come and go, but xAI has a unique approach that sets it apart. I’m excited to see how it evolves!
Cybertruck's attachment for towing is a disaster. We already saw how the frame would split just by towing another truck from mud.