that did perfectly fine especially considering you loaded it pulling on the fastener rather than perpendicular to the fastener which is how its gonna get loaded most the time
Nice observation. I'm our experience, pulling perpendicularly (in shear) wouldn't have quite provided the data we were seeking. Someone could put a solid blank rod into the hole in the rock without any mechanical or chemical anchoring, pull in shear and get a pretty notable value, however it would instantly fail in tension.
@@climbingtaiwan oh no im agreeing 100% with you you tested in the worst possible use case and it performed perfectly in shear it would have out performed that 100% so if thats the performance in its worst possible configuration we can rest assured that even if somhow someone manages to load it in tension it will be fine
In engineering calculations you halve the tensile failure force to get the shear failure force. So halve that number you measured for it's in use failure force.
So this is the first time I've ever actually looked up the conversion because I really wanted to know the pulling force that you just put on it and that's roughly 11,000 lbs. Holy shit.
I now have less faith in the ropes then the hanger, as a fat person who will never climb. Just saying, if I ever find myself relying on these@@nipponsuxs
Some one would have had their harness rip right through them at 45/46KN LOL, I'd say more than safe. Heck we anchored to bolts swinging in the hole for a first pitch abseil of 50 plus metres several times and it was loaded under shear, whereas you test in the worst case scenario and get amazing results.Neither bracket nor bolt pass their limit of plasticity
They don't need them. Climbers needs those loops if there is no cracks for temporal ones. Only those who build those routes need impact drills and torque wrenches when pre-installing those bolts for future climbers as in sport.
True, the design is more meant for shear forces. However in the actual EN standard that climbing hangers would get certification for, they undergo both shear and tension testing.
A slight over drill like this may allow the bolt to spread further and help it seat better while reducing potential cracking. Just a thought. I would test shear first though.
Already tested shear. Similar break results. Tension actually is more unfavorable, so if one gets good tension results, it's a safe bet to say shear will be the same if not better.
If someone falls its in shear, you should be testing for both not just in tension. When you perform and test DFMEAs you have to look at and test all possible failures. Looks pretty capable though, you shouldnt have any issues passing.
True point, more testing and variables would provide better data. We only had time for 1 test, so pulling our sample in tension would have been the best indicator.
to avoid twisting: 1. drill hole. 2. use a squeeze blower or some time of blower or brush to clean and remove all dust! if you dont this can also cause issues or failure
12mm to half an inch is like 1.2mm difference. That's allot. You would be better to use a 7/16 and wiggle the shit out the drill bit to open the hole up a little bit that still might be too tight as 7/16 is closer to 11mm. But you can always use the paper trick to close that gap with the setup you have. It's crazy it held that good tho with that much play
@@A_barrel True point, it would be definitely be cool to see more commonly-bought accessible hardware tested. Maybe in the future or hopefully another channel starts to explore it.
Percussion drill bit will give a more accurately sized hole compared to a hammer drill. These holes are already oversized and then the hammer action makes it more like 1mm when you are done. I am surprised they hels as well as they did. The stone itself would play a large part in the holding capacity. If I was trusting my life with this unless it was tested I wouldn't be using it in a typical installation. If a pull test was done on each anchor prior to use that is fair enough
Less than the screw strength to start. And for a #12 screw into 1/4 inch of steel that is 777 pounds fail strength 260ish test. Ie 1 #12 screw will probably fail on your first fall. And you can’t just assume that your rig will perfectly balance between various attachments, because in the disaster situation they will probably all fail sequentially.
Ah yes mm and in-lbs. units are fun. (Not saying there's anything wrong with mixing them. I just find it interesting how many things/people end up using both
This largely depends on the bolt being pulled as well. For example the 12 mm triplex sleeve bolt will pull much easier when torqued to spec and not safe for climbers at all when used in this scenario. I wouldnt recommend trying this yall 😅
A sleeve anchor for more permanent installation than can readily go into the hole, and easily pull out when not tightened isn't ideal. Ideal is the sleeve having friction inside the hole, even better where it requires some light hammering. After it wasn't tighten down to the recommended torque, it doesn't come out. But it did prove to be a challenge to tighten down, which is sort of a red flag for some types of anchor installations.
Yes, and one could also find bolts made in different grades of steel, different design, made abroad, etc. all this also affects cost. So a $1 bolt won't perform or be just as appropriate as say a $3 bolt made of a better grade of steel and design.
Key difference between a ThunderBolt and these sort of sleeve anchors is that a ThunderBolt uses a hex nut(on the outside of the hole), whereas these sleeve anchors use a hex bolt and a cone nut (inside the hole). This configuration offers additional strength in radial forces, (it's a difference of the force being on rod stock versus threads)
1" = 25.4mm so half of that is 12.7mm and you're talking about a bolt with an expanding sleeve so it's designed to take up space and a sub millimeter spacing on something like that is negligible and it's likely they're designed for slightly more gap since you can't be guaranteed the drill operator isn't accidentally wallowing out the hole to an even slightly larger diameter so it's within spec regardless because that is how things like that are designed.
You know it wasn't the anchor they gave up it was the hex head that gave up so it would be a you applied enough pressure to pull that head off so that anchor is a success even though the head gave up
we do really weigh that much to destroy components like this? Even in compromised scenarios? it's a good test to see it's peak performance always to base saftey and quality but I couldn't see myself falling and snapping that steel?
Because by over drilling the hole, it makes it too loose for the expanding part to work right. As they said, it's spinning while tightening instead of held properly by friction.
Pulling straight out (tension) would give us a good indication of what would happen when pulling down (shear). We've tested these bolts already in shear, and it's often more predictable. We still plan to do more tests.
Okay but if you fell and your weight was caught by said gear almost all the time you're going to stress the gear under shear load instead of a tension load. Wouldn't it be more practical to test to gear in the same manner it would be applied? Also I'm not an engineer or a physics master I'm just a 20 year old who thinks my opinions and thoughts are superior or even just more logical even though most often times not lmfao seriously though is it tested like this because the tension strength is weaker than the shear strength and would be a failing point well before shear load or is it just one of many tests used to determine safety status of climbing gear
@@malachipeterson1562 You're right in that it's important to test these bolts in the manner they're going to be used, which is in shear. In fact the EN959 and UIAA standard for bolt certification do state shear testing, however tension testing is also part of that standard. Shear is a minimum of 25kN, and tension is a min of 20kN for UIAA123 or 15kN for the EN standard. Meaning that bolts are likely to fail at slightly lower loads in tension rather than shear (this can actually depend on the bolt tho). So by us doing a test in tension (which is sort of the unfavorable direction of pull) and our results were very good...like the bolt breaking, in our experience without a doubt it'll have no problem also breaking in shear and performing similarly (if not better).
@@climbingtaiwan oh okay so you're essentially testing the max strength of the weakest link to determine what the minimum capabilities are. okay that makes sense I kinda figured that's what was going on but, I'm just always so intrigued with mechanical devices and I fucking love when something is completely and totally over built for the sole purpose of being dependable. keep it up this is amazing
Im curious what this could hold with a perpendicular load. Same setup, but witna 90, and even possibly 35-25 offset. Its okay on a straight pull, but how does this on angled approaches.
If they're using a dynamic rope, shouldnt be a problem. If using a static ropes or static attachment point, a person's body would be pretty messed up from the amount force on it. A bolt like this would still be alright, maybe a little bent.
@ well I guess you need that much overkill to carry the weight of your guys’ massive balls😂 I’m an adrenaline guy but I could never do what yall do on cliffs. Wild. Thank you for the answer as well.
😳People always use sleeve anchors wrong. You can not set the anchor thru material. You must set it alone, against the washer, then remove the nut and washer, then install material…these are not drop in anchors😮
Good question! Mainly routes developers will use a drill, it's during the phase a climbing route is established. Afterwards, people just climb it and use their own equipment. And then there's already fixed gear they can safely use to get down. Most of guys just use a wrench, as opposed to a torque wrench cause they weigh more.
I dont know much about climbing, but i do know that you shouldnt wench with a torque wrench. If you need to put a bolt in use a proper wrench/ratchet, itll save the accuracy of your toeque wrench
@r2dxhate In my experience you tighten the bolt first with a tool, and check that it's torqued. But you snug it, then finish with torque wrench. Personally it takes longer to tighten with a t wrench biggest thing is to set to set it back 2 zero. Basically a dumb post that didn't need a response but hope that makes sense.@r2dxhate
Your suggestion is one option... however depending on the material type, diameter, pitch, etc of a fastener, accidentally applying too much torque can damage it or cause galling. Torque wrenches only run me about $25 each...so I'm not breaking the bank for more accurate testing & procedure.
Outsidebm of the US you dont find any crappy inch parts, tools while in the US you can find both and in fact more and more metric hardware. Some trucks, farm equipment...have a mix of metric, UNF, UNC a nightmare !
"hex head" does sound better. There's a lot of lingo out there : www.albanycountyfasteners.com/blog/hex-bolts-vs-tap-bolts/?srsltid=AfmBOoqzfbJjuUMhy-ZobDGiYNLOXlEqvEKOvlKYlo7DZByhT6_SfRLQ
Yes, they will be more used in shear in rock climbing. Yet we were looking for more worse case scenario data, and pulling in tension gives the better data we were seeking.
We've done shear tests before with these bolts, the results are more predictable. In our experience, Tension tests are a great indicator of what will happen during shear testing.
Yes and no, as i said above I've abseiled 9and quite safety too) on partially rotating hangers/bolt. if the bolt is set deep in good rock and the load perpendicular, ie a shear force, then it can be done under necessary situations. Also before raping/climbing on such bolted routes u have to check the colts and not rely upon them still being tight for many reasons, especially if not chemically set anchors (but even those should be checked after severe weather, ie freezing thawing cycles).
True point. Using a larger diameter hole for permanent bolts for others to use is overal poor practice, (basically going outside the manufacturer or seller's recommendations). Yet some application of this would be removable bolts for personal use. But yeah, a bit of red flags during installation. But still good to know the bolt performed well despite using the wrong hole diameter.
@jpcaretta8847 For sure. We'll keep an eye out for other designs in the future. Have any recommendations or ones you like? ---This current sleeve bolt we're sourcing performs well enough and is definitely strong enough for it's application, and at an economical price. Additional features can increase cost, cost that not everyone wants to pay, and for features not everyone needs.
Grade 8? If we're not looking for corrosion resistant qualities that stainless steel offers, then how about about grade 10 even even 12? Let's go with super duper high tensile strength carbon steel!
that did perfectly fine especially considering you loaded it pulling on the fastener rather than perpendicular to the fastener which is how its gonna get loaded most the time
Nice observation. I'm our experience, pulling perpendicularly (in shear) wouldn't have quite provided the data we were seeking. Someone could put a solid blank rod into the hole in the rock without any mechanical or chemical anchoring, pull in shear and get a pretty notable value, however it would instantly fail in tension.
You always want to test for worst case scenarios.
@@climbingtaiwan oh no im agreeing 100% with you you tested in the worst possible use case and it performed perfectly
in shear it would have out performed that 100%
so if thats the performance in its worst possible configuration we can rest assured that even if somhow someone manages to load it in tension it will be fine
In engineering calculations you halve the tensile failure force to get the shear failure force. So halve that number you measured for it's in use failure force.
@@kingcosworth2643 in construction its to be rated at 1/5 what the actual failure rating is
So this is the first time I've ever actually looked up the conversion because I really wanted to know the pulling force that you just put on it and that's roughly 11,000 lbs. Holy shit.
Yep it'll hold even the fattest climbers
@@nipponsuxseven Brandi and Kandi Dreier from my 600 lb life 😂
So easy to say it'll hold you on the side of a cliff even if you fall. You can snatch a small car. Jesus, he was making it sound like it wasn't good
Isn't 49kn like 35000ft lbs?
I now have less faith in the ropes then the hanger, as a fat person who will never climb. Just saying, if I ever find myself relying on these@@nipponsuxs
49.09kN is roughly 11,035.87 lbf (Pounds of Force)
aka over kill
5 tons? 😱
@@dennycoleman7861 yep
No such thing as overkill when your life depends on it lol
It’s only overkill until your ass is falling 30 feet lol
Thank you for clarifying that you were talking about pound-force because my brain saw Pound-Force•Foot (Lbf•Ft) (unit of torque).
22.5 Kilonewtons is the tower industry standard for fall arrest equipment.
This doubled that in less than ideal conditions.
Idk why testing climbing equipment seems more fun that actually climbing to me 😂
That seems super good enough to me.
Thats extremely impressive. Climbing safety gear is so cool
Some one would have had their harness rip right through them at 45/46KN LOL, I'd say more than safe. Heck we anchored to bolts swinging in the hole for a first pitch abseil of 50 plus metres several times and it was loaded under shear, whereas you test in the worst case scenario and get amazing results.Neither bracket nor bolt pass their limit of plasticity
Never knew rock climbers needed torque wrenches that’s pretty cool
I was impressed the take hammer drills with them the wrench is nothing
@ yeah me too but idk I just thought they just brought a wrench or like a little 3/8 impact
They don't need them.
Climbers needs those loops if there is no cracks for temporal ones.
Only those who build those routes need impact drills and torque wrenches when pre-installing those bolts for future climbers as in sport.
Similar fasteners are used to anker down houses in Europe and Australia. They are pretty solid and can take a lot of load, not just climbers.
*anchor
Nice slick ad. I didn’t even realize it was one til the end
That is one badass hanger
If you look at the hanger, it is built to withstand shear stresses, not pulling out on it.
True, the design is more meant for shear forces. However in the actual EN standard that climbing hangers would get certification for, they undergo both shear and tension testing.
Here's our shear test and some more explanation: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
A slight over drill like this may allow the bolt to spread further and help it seat better while reducing potential cracking. Just a thought. I would test shear first though.
Already tested shear. Similar break results. Tension actually is more unfavorable, so if one gets good tension results, it's a safe bet to say shear will be the same if not better.
ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
That did way better than i thought with the anchor bolt 0.6mm smaller than the diameter of the hole.
If someone falls its in shear, you should be testing for both not just in tension. When you perform and test DFMEAs you have to look at and test all possible failures. Looks pretty capable though, you shouldnt have any issues passing.
True point, more testing and variables would provide better data. We only had time for 1 test, so pulling our sample in tension would have been the best indicator.
Here's our shear test for comparison. And why testing in tension is quite valuable: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
@@climbingtaiwan very nice, never said the tension test wasn't warranted btw, just that shear should be tested with it.
to avoid twisting: 1. drill hole. 2. use a squeeze blower or some time of blower or brush to clean and remove all dust! if you dont this can also cause issues or failure
We brush and blow our holes before break testing bolts. We don't like adding in more variables, and dirty holes is definitely one of them.
@@climbingtaiwan Awesome good to know ! good man keep on the testing !
12mm to half an inch is like 1.2mm difference. That's allot. You would be better to use a 7/16 and wiggle the shit out the drill bit to open the hole up a little bit that still might be too tight as 7/16 is closer to 11mm. But you can always use the paper trick to close that gap with the setup you have. It's crazy it held that good tho with that much play
I like that you didn't directly answer the question though 😂. Pretty sure that was a yes.
We just presented some data and observations. Answer is yes it's strong enough, but there are other red flags to the installation and tradeoffs.
Every time I go rock climbing I forget to bring my hammer drill.
No worries, they're heavy and bulky.
Yall should test tapcons and Chemical anchors form the hardware store
Tap construction break too easy!
We primarily test hardware for use in climbing and rappelling.
@@climbingtaiwan I get that but unconventional tests would be kinda cool
@@A_barrel True point, it would be definitely be cool to see more commonly-bought accessible hardware tested. Maybe in the future or hopefully another channel starts to explore it.
@@A_barrelyes because we all know not everyone is the sharpest tool in the garage
Percussion drill bit will give a more accurately sized hole compared to a hammer drill. These holes are already oversized and then the hammer action makes it more like 1mm when you are done. I am surprised they hels as well as they did. The stone itself would play a large part in the holding capacity. If I was trusting my life with this unless it was tested I wouldn't be using it in a typical installation. If a pull test was done on each anchor prior to use that is fair enough
If the head of the bolt snaps off before the fastener pulls out under perpendicular loading, 1/2" seems just fine.
1/2" hole will work strength-wise, however there will be complications during the installation and tradeoffs.
Wonder what a regular blue tapcon would hold like with similar depth.
Less than the screw strength to start. And for a #12 screw into 1/4 inch of steel that is 777 pounds fail strength 260ish test. Ie 1 #12 screw will probably fail on your first fall. And you can’t just assume that your rig will perfectly balance between various attachments, because in the disaster situation they will probably all fail sequentially.
Try testing the shear load ..
We have, you can see our other videos. The results are more predictable.
Here's our shear test. Have a watch: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
It’s only 0.7mm difference, with the sloppy holes masonry bits leave it’s neither here nor there.
Ah yes mm and in-lbs. units are fun. (Not saying there's anything wrong with mixing them. I just find it interesting how many things/people end up using both
I'm an American living abroad in Asia. Most of our audience is in America, as well as most of our customers. So I use both, but prefer metric.
Smart people only use metric !
@@climbingtaiwanforget imperial, you just add confusion. Smart people use metric only !
With a properly sized and prepped hole a wedge anchor will break before it pulls out.
Often yes, unless the substrate is softer, and/or if the wedge bolt design is mediocre.
This largely depends on the bolt being pulled as well. For example the 12 mm triplex sleeve bolt will pull much easier when torqued to spec and not safe for climbers at all when used in this scenario.
I wouldnt recommend trying this yall 😅
49kn is equivalent to 49 tones , so 2 20t scanias , a 7.5t eurocargo and a 2006 535d e60
49kn is equal to 4.9 tonnes, you just missed a decimal point. Still pretty impressive for a single 12mm bolt!
I can over drill some holes. I guess that anchor will work just fine when you're doing a foot push away from the cliff
Very nice but resin anchors do a better job and there’s no compression stress on the bricks.
True point. We test and install them too. Guys like different bolts for different situations, so we try to source a variety.
Super duper good enough
How could it readily go in the hole but not readily come out lol. So do you not think it’s wonky anymore.
A sleeve anchor for more permanent installation than can readily go into the hole, and easily pull out when not tightened isn't ideal. Ideal is the sleeve having friction inside the hole, even better where it requires some light hammering.
After it wasn't tighten down to the recommended torque, it doesn't come out. But it did prove to be a challenge to tighten down, which is sort of a red flag for some types of anchor installations.
Seems like it works, and I know 1/2 is damn close to 13mm. But why are we playing the conversion game when hanging from cliffs
Yup. As long as it wasn’t made on a Tuesday. 😅
It's just a wedge anchor with a hook. They sell both at any hardware store. For about a buck.
Yes, and one could also find bolts made in different grades of steel, different design, made abroad, etc. all this also affects cost. So a $1 bolt won't perform or be just as appropriate as say a $3 bolt made of a better grade of steel and design.
"Pretty wonky" says the man thats probably tightened 1 bolt in his life.
Feel free to view our other videos.
@climbingtaiwan never
I've used what used to be called, Thunder bolts since the late 1960's, you act like These are new! Hahaha 7
Key difference between a ThunderBolt and these sort of sleeve anchors is that a ThunderBolt uses a hex nut(on the outside of the hole), whereas these sleeve anchors use a hex bolt and a cone nut (inside the hole). This configuration offers additional strength in radial forces, (it's a difference of the force being on rod stock versus threads)
How often is it going to be pulled straight out like that, though? Try pulling it down next time and I think it would be a more accurate load test
1" = 25.4mm so half of that is 12.7mm and you're talking about a bolt with an expanding sleeve so it's designed to take up space and a sub millimeter spacing on something like that is negligible and it's likely they're designed for slightly more gap since you can't be guaranteed the drill operator isn't accidentally wallowing out the hole to an even slightly larger diameter so it's within spec regardless because that is how things like that are designed.
It's only like 1mm bigger. If the anchor grabs your good.
Not even, 1/2" is 12.7mm
@iplayzthegames6968 Bru.
You can tell that that dude has never used tools before
How about use a normal 12mm drill bit like everybody in the world ?
'murica
You know it wasn't the anchor they gave up it was the hex head that gave up so it would be a you applied enough pressure to pull that head off so that anchor is a success even though the head gave up
we do really weigh that much to destroy components like this? Even in compromised scenarios? it's a good test to see it's peak performance always to base saftey and quality but I couldn't see myself falling and snapping that steel?
That's what I'd build shower curbs out of. that's a redhead, basically.
12mm bolt in a 12.7mm hold how should that ever be an issue for an expandikg anchor?
Because by over drilling the hole, it makes it too loose for the expanding part to work right. As they said, it's spinning while tightening instead of held properly by friction.
the rock look like the out side of a glazed ham
Yes u can 😊
12.7mm vs 12.0 about .027 thou id rather take the right size drill
Pulled -46.89 God damn that's tough. Just curious though why pull straight out instead of down
Pulling straight out (tension) would give us a good indication of what would happen when pulling down (shear). We've tested these bolts already in shear, and it's often more predictable. We still plan to do more tests.
Okay but if you fell and your weight was caught by said gear almost all the time you're going to stress the gear under shear load instead of a tension load. Wouldn't it be more practical to test to gear in the same manner it would be applied? Also I'm not an engineer or a physics master I'm just a 20 year old who thinks my opinions and thoughts are superior or even just more logical even though most often times not lmfao seriously though is it tested like this because the tension strength is weaker than the shear strength and would be a failing point well before shear load or is it just one of many tests used to determine safety status of climbing gear
@@malachipeterson1562 You're right in that it's important to test these bolts in the manner they're going to be used, which is in shear. In fact the EN959 and UIAA standard for bolt certification do state shear testing, however tension testing is also part of that standard. Shear is a minimum of 25kN, and tension is a min of 20kN for UIAA123 or 15kN for the EN standard. Meaning that bolts are likely to fail at slightly lower loads in tension rather than shear (this can actually depend on the bolt tho). So by us doing a test in tension (which is sort of the unfavorable direction of pull) and our results were very good...like the bolt breaking, in our experience without a doubt it'll have no problem also breaking in shear and performing similarly (if not better).
@@climbingtaiwan oh okay so you're essentially testing the max strength of the weakest link to determine what the minimum capabilities are. okay that makes sense I kinda figured that's what was going on but, I'm just always so intrigued with mechanical devices and I fucking love when something is completely and totally over built for the sole purpose of being dependable. keep it up this is amazing
So half that force you measured because the bolt will have a shear force applied to it in practice, not a tensile force
We get about the same strength in shear. See our other videos.
Here's our shear test for comparison: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
Bravo to the rock
Im curious what this could hold with a perpendicular load. Same setup, but witna 90, and even possibly 35-25 offset. Its okay on a straight pull, but how does this on angled approaches.
In our other tests, about the same strength.
Assuming a 200 lb person falls 15 feet before weight/force on the sleeve bolt is exerted... will it hold?
If they're using a dynamic rope, shouldnt be a problem. If using a static ropes or static attachment point, a person's body would be pretty messed up from the amount force on it. A bolt like this would still be alright, maybe a little bent.
49 what?years, mm, days,degrees
This means nothing, how many pounds of force did it take.
About 11,000 pounds of force.
@ well I guess you need that much overkill to carry the weight of your guys’ massive balls😂 I’m an adrenaline guy but I could never do what yall do on cliffs. Wild. Thank you for the answer as well.
So it took what 10,000 lbs of force. If say that's probably adequate
Oh wait that’s kilonewtons?! 🤯
😳People always use sleeve anchors wrong. You can not set the anchor thru material. You must set it alone, against the washer, then remove the nut and washer, then install material…these are not drop in anchors😮
My math says that 12.7mm is bigger than 12mm, but that pull rating says you're not going anywhere.
1/2” is 12.7mm.
So are Yall climbing with hammer drills and torque wrenches? I’m not a climber so I really don’t know
Good question! Mainly routes developers will use a drill, it's during the phase a climbing route is established. Afterwards, people just climb it and use their own equipment. And then there's already fixed gear they can safely use to get down. Most of guys just use a wrench, as opposed to a torque wrench cause they weigh more.
no epoxy?
We use expoxy bolts too, tested them as well.
224.8 lbs force
Hey dude, 12mm drill bits exist!
Yes, they do. And we sell them too.
I dont know much about climbing, but i do know that you shouldnt wench with a torque wrench. If you need to put a bolt in use a proper wrench/ratchet, itll save the accuracy of your toeque wrench
How do you check the torque then?
@r2dxhate In my experience you tighten the bolt first with a tool, and check that it's torqued. But you snug it, then finish with torque wrench. Personally it takes longer to tighten with a t wrench biggest thing is to set to set it back 2 zero. Basically a dumb post that didn't need a response but hope that makes sense.@r2dxhate
Anyone who wenches with a wrench is doing it wrong.
Your suggestion is one option... however depending on the material type, diameter, pitch, etc of a fastener, accidentally applying too much torque can damage it or cause galling. Torque wrenches only run me about $25 each...so I'm not breaking the bank for more accurate testing & procedure.
11,000 lbs is a lot of holding power.
If only they made 12mm drill bits
We sell them in America: hownot2.com/collections/drill-bits
Outsidebm of the US you dont find any crappy inch parts, tools while in the US you can find both and in fact more and more metric hardware. Some trucks, farm equipment...have a mix of metric, UNF, UNC a nightmare !
I was like pshhhh 40 N is nothing, and then I saw kN 💀
Who carries a hammer drill and torque wrench 400 feet up a clifside?
Some climbers do, to install permanent anchors.
I would need 3 wrenches as i would have dropped 2 on the first bolt
Use a leash or tether. Us climbing route developers do.
Seeing that you pulled it out in a way it wasn’t and still got to 49 it’s more than great for the job it’s supposed to do
Hex cap? Did You mean bolt head?
"hex head" does sound better. There's a lot of lingo out there : www.albanycountyfasteners.com/blog/hex-bolts-vs-tap-bolts/?srsltid=AfmBOoqzfbJjuUMhy-ZobDGiYNLOXlEqvEKOvlKYlo7DZByhT6_SfRLQ
Isn't the intended load more shear?
Yes, they will be more used in shear in rock climbing. Yet we were looking for more worse case scenario data, and pulling in tension gives the better data we were seeking.
Got it, thanks.
Here's our shear test: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
i mean im not surpriced it works by expanding the metal slieve inside the hole
A few of those
So why would you use a metric anchor with an SAE drill bit? Thats stupid.
These tests all depend on the strength of the rock you’re drilling into.
True. Typically in softer substrates one should use a longer bolt, and/or a chemical anchor for superior holding power.
I wanna use the sleeve bolts buy fir cobstruction
Worth 3 bucks id say
Testing tension instead of shear?
We've done shear tests before with these bolts, the results are more predictable. In our experience, Tension tests are a great indicator of what will happen during shear testing.
Here's our shear test: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
1/2" is 12.7 mm.....for you guys doing the vid, 12mm is .472" ..
So yes
Strong enough? Definitely yes. Yet at the same time there are downsides.
I feel like if you need to bring a torque wrench with you climbing a mountain, it's not a great one
lol, yes, the answer is: yes.
48KN. 5000kg 11000lb basically it could pickup a truck
Shock force/ shear force is different than pull force
It can be. In some of our tests, sometimes there isn't much of a difference in the shear vs tension strength; things will break around the same.
Here's our shear test: ruclips.net/user/shortschNv2JIycic?si=QCMyMDQXXSQDkz0a
Use a 11.5mm Drill bit next time. You will thank me.
The bolt won't even go inside 11.5mm hole. It'll defom the sleeve.
What grade is the bolt?
304 stainless steel
Strength isn't everything, besides being a pain to get the cone to initially engage the sleeve, if it loosens up the bolt is likely to just fall out.
Yes and no, as i said above I've abseiled 9and quite safety too) on partially rotating hangers/bolt. if the bolt is set deep in good rock and the load perpendicular, ie a shear force, then it can be done under necessary situations. Also before raping/climbing on such bolted routes u have to check the colts and not rely upon them still being tight for many reasons, especially if not chemically set anchors (but even those should be checked after severe weather, ie freezing thawing cycles).
True point. Using a larger diameter hole for permanent bolts for others to use is overal poor practice, (basically going outside the manufacturer or seller's recommendations). Yet some application of this would be removable bolts for personal use. But yeah, a bit of red flags during installation. But still good to know the bolt performed well despite using the wrong hole diameter.
@@climbingtaiwanbtw there are other anchors that expand more than the ones shown.
@jpcaretta8847 For sure. We'll keep an eye out for other designs in the future. Have any recommendations or ones you like? ---This current sleeve bolt we're sourcing performs well enough and is definitely strong enough for it's application, and at an economical price. Additional features can increase cost, cost that not everyone wants to pay, and for features not everyone needs.
@@climbingtaiwanI have used these in concrete and they are fine with a 12mm drill bit 😊. Look for Fischer anchor bolts fir the various types.
Kn or tonnes
"kN" for kilonewtons. Though they could be converted to tonnes to help give an idea of mass.
@climbingtaiwan thank you!
Needs a grade 8 bolt
Grade 8? If we're not looking for corrosion resistant qualities that stainless steel offers, then how about about grade 10 even even 12? Let's go with super duper high tensile strength carbon steel!
Just goes to show you that climbing gear (and hardware repurposed for climbing) is wayyyy over engineered. We good!
U better beat that in so someone dont get gigged
You’re not testing with impulse dynamics
The same thing as a expansion acre
what the hell is a newton
A unit to measure force.
This is EXACTLY WHY You guys should be drilling to size, and use Titans bolts! Those suck, and Red Heads suck!
Do you know what type of bolt+brand you were watching being tested?