Before retiring, I played a few scenarios with Divine Intervention on Sunkeeper with a level 9 Summoner and ooh boy, I didn't have to worry about the summons dying at all because I just had the Sunkeeper take the damage so I could play them a lot more aggressively and then mid scenario once Sunkeeper's health was nearly zero, I just popped a helix ring and she was right back to full with a heal 25 to do it all over again. Insane stuff
Great stuff as always, thanks for your hard work. Personally, I think black hole is grossly underrated. I would actually invite anyone to prove me wrong. This is a card that can do decievingly many things because of the immense range and value of positioning. Some of the things it can do: - Remove(mitigate) the need for allies to move - Deny enemies from attacking (moving them to manipulate turn order, range, attacks etc) - Deal massive pure damage to enemies. Just using one good trap can easily cause a good chunk of pure damage. - Consistently increase spell weaver's damage but getting more enemies within spells AoE All of this combined turns it into a consistent card that can continually deal massive damage, support allies And deny enemy attacks. The card is certainly not straight forward but once you experiment with I strongly consider it to be A/D tier.
Glad you liked the video dude thanks! I have tried black hole many times and to be honest its interesting, but ultimately far too much work. If it was available maybe at level 8 instead of 9 opposite inferno which is one of the best damage cards in the game then maybe it might see more play, but even then I've tried going at it hard and it just never works out how you imagine or hoped it would as pull is not a very flexible ability. With the rules changes in Frosthaven to push and pull it might be a bit more useable now though for positioning purposes.
I really agree with the vast majority your ranking. I personnaly think Watch it Burn should step up to 'B'. It's very good for any Ranged Scoundrel build, the one you need when you don't have a reliable melee ally. adding poison and wound to all those throwing knives is pretty good. Voice of the Night should also be 'B' move+attack always gives strong value and shift any element to Dark, plus invisibility really crown it all Many as One and Face Your End should step down to 'E' as they are almost useless at level 9.. I would put Ethereal Manifestation to C or even B. The Versatilty of a element of your choice, created just before your turn is really helpful. Your initiative are almost always no man land bad and enemies or allies can steal your element. This help those situations ! At the end, very good ranking!
Glad you I liked it, yeah it was very tough to rank a few of these as no doubt they can be used to really great effect by certain builds/comps. The range build on the scoundrel is just more of a niche build unfortunately that I think most players won’t ever try due to it needing those high level cards to shine and most will just take their retirement goal character. Voice of the night we felt the fact you had to steal an element or have dark already there was enough to bump it down a tier. The problem with ethereal manifestation is that experienced triangles players will always have the elements they need already or will be spamming vengeance. It’s not a bad little summon and if it was say a level 5/6 card or something it would be a bit more viable I think, plus the Triangles attack deck is very flat so the damage it does is nothing at level 9. You might be right on Face your End and Many as One, but you have to respect his majesty, and at least both cards can have useful spots.
Sorry for ressurect, but i cannot believe the spellweaver+tinkerer+sun combo was not mentioned. 8! Infernos(its SW card, will be recovered) buffed with +3 dmg and wound. But MW +2dmg was mentioned xD
The thing you are missing with Interplanar Mastery is that there are more than just two builds for Summoner. I ran 3 ranged summons from first 3 turns. This makes Summoner a 6 card deck. Also, one bad early game losing one of your summons doesn't instantly ruin your game. Also Summoner is a tank, so early jump 6 is awesome.
giving "watch it burn" a bit of a hard time, sure next to all the broken stuff it doesn't look fancy, but if you play for the bottem you have a late iniative plus long move plus wound on easily 3 or more (maybe if you jumb) aka around 6 dmg or more against potentially high shield enemies without triggering any retaliate and you absolute free to play any top also the top synergizes with the range build well lol
Devine intervention with the helix ring is flat out broken. Your party no longer cares about avoiding damage, can play perfect turns with little regard for safety. As a result you blitz through scenarios, when I played that combo it was really super easy.
Predator and Prey with Wild Command on a ring of haste let’s you execute monsters from across the map though, definitely a pair worth keeping in long scenarios or when the party is split and you need to clear a foe out of an ally’s way
Would be cool but nope since X is the difference between the max range of the attack and number of hexes between you and the enemy wich does not work on Wild Command since it don't have a specified max range.
Blind Destruction is definetly overpowered.. Combined with volatile bomb it can be like a attack 12 pierce 8 range 4(though if you pull an average +1 and power potion or something you are now at attack 18 pierce 12 etc) ... In someways better than inferno.. Instakilling 3 high health enemies can travilaizing a scenario
I feel like Blind Destruction is pretty S tier. Have you tried it with Volatile Bomb/Explosives? Literally a 1-card combo. Did 65 damage to 4 enemies with it last night (would have been over 80 if they didn't die).No power potions. No strengthen. Absurd. Grisly Trauma is easily A tier. Move 2 poison wound muddle all adjacent doesnt need to combo with anything to be good, and the top plays like this: you are trying to figure out how to kill 2 elites. Strategizing ways to get through shield, factoring in retaliate, some movement. You devize a semi-functional plan, and then move on to Saw to plan his turn, read the top of this card and laugh cuz they are just dead.
Yeah I have done the bomb combo its pretty absurd. I think it narrowly misses out as you need the bomb, and them all to be grouped to really pop off. I think on a different day of shooting this it might well of snuck in. I agree with Grisly actually, it was top of B, but it should probably be a solid A.
@@MandatoryQuest OOf you put Honorable Fury above my boy Grisly too? That card is like C tier to me. Took the other level 9 Redgaurd guard over it in a heartbeat. And just.got lvl 9 on my Voidwarden tonight and wasnt exactly thrilled to see what are essentially level 4 cards. At. Best.
With Nightmarish Affliction +1 target +1 curse Mass Extinction's curse is not really that great imo since it's easy to reach the curse cap of 10 at that point, and it's borderline the only 2 enhancements the class really care about.
Just because there's another similar card it doesn't make another obsolete. Gentleman's anger also requires you to combo it with the bottom of hold back the pain which is harder and another card play. Long Con does basically the exact same thing on a better initiative in a single very efficient action that you can pair with any of your big moves. You can stamina potion back Long Con with just a minor potion for example, but the Saw would need a major potion to get back 2 cards. Gentleman's Anger is a very strong card, but its not as good as Long Con because it isn't as flexible.
I used to think King of the Hill was not a great card. But I have changed my opinion, it is super useful. Heal 5 is super useful as the brute as you are in the action taking a lot of hits. There are times you will not need to move and this is a great bottom. And the top is also a strong situational use.
@@MandatoryQuest wait... there is a burn and a permanent non recoverable burn which are different things? i am uneducated. i was excited for circles to live forever. guess she just gets a unicorn.
You put eternal equilibrium in S but it technically requires another card or turn really to set up while other cards were put in A for that reason. Rigged! Also algorithm blessing
So what do you guys think? is there any we got really wrong? Final tier list image: imgur.com/iao4YHp Unedited full stream: ruclips.net/video/L7OvdODogeY/видео.html Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com
I wonder why didn't you take into consideration bottom part of black hole which combines greatly with Spellweaver AOE attacks (especially the one with the stun).
In the extended video we talk about that a bit more. I’ve just found it to be too cute to actually be super useful. It’s not a bad tool in the kit just not a powerful one.
Maybe you can argue Bag of Holding is not S-Tier as it needs a party with a lot of good items. But at high prosperity the card is definitly one of the most broken cards in the game, getting back all stamina potions, all power potions, all rings and earring variants for the entire party. It can do this twice in a scenario with the 3 spear. Definitly a card that can never be in frosthaven as it completely breaks the game. The Loot 3 is just a nice bonus. Together with the spellweaver, after you helped firing inferno thrice with all power potions and buffs almost in a row in that one scenario with only one room, you feel like someone in the city probably will mention that you guys are responsable for nuking their forests to the ground.
@@MandatoryQuest I'd like to argue a bit if you don't mind ;) Although I like almost all classes from base game + FC, Spellweaver remains one of my favourite classes. I'd say that I find this class one of the most versatile in the game. You can be a damage-dealer, healer, control player, even an awkward tank. We've had once a situation when all our party consisted of damage dealers (spellweaver+doomstalker+scoundrel). That situation was really challanging. And it forced spellweaver to take a control/tanking role. Such a situation forced me to take Black Hole. It unexpectedly gave an outstanding effect. It helps you to grab enemies together for stun/AOE, it lets you move monsters to traps, clear the pass, drag monsters from allies... It really impressed me. Unfortunatelly spellweaver suffers from late initiatives and Black hole hav only 46. To sum up my experience I'd say that it is at the level of B-rank. Of course Inferno is better. But since we compare all the cards I'd say that it is definatelly better than E-tier. I'd also want to give some comments on Planar Fissure. Due to my experience it is a S-tier card for 2 reasons. The first one is that it's area of effect is really huge. You can easily attack almost all monsters the same as Inferno does but with no drawback. It gives muddle which is a nice protective effect. But the second and maybe even more important reason is that this attack has improve dot on the attack effect. And therefore can be upgraded with immobilize/disarm. Yes, it is extremely expensive. But in both campaigns we've finished this upgrade was purchased - immobilize in the first and disarm in the second. Most lvl9 cards cannot be upgraded this way. This one can. That results on the absolutely insane ability that is the combination of Inferno and Long Con. Yes, it is extremely expensive and very hard to get. But the result is really broken.
Wife: Have you decided on a movie to watch tonight?
Me: Yes...
already saw some of it during your twitch stream, but hadn't time to see it all. glad I can see everything now!
I'd still love to see a class guide for Saw and Cthulu.
SoonTM
@@MandatoryQuest Sweet!
Before retiring, I played a few scenarios with Divine Intervention on Sunkeeper with a level 9 Summoner and ooh boy, I didn't have to worry about the summons dying at all because I just had the Sunkeeper take the damage so I could play them a lot more aggressively and then mid scenario once Sunkeeper's health was nearly zero, I just popped a helix ring and she was right back to full with a heal 25 to do it all over again. Insane stuff
Great stuff as always, thanks for your hard work.
Personally, I think black hole is grossly underrated. I would actually invite anyone to prove me wrong. This is a card that can do decievingly many things because of the immense range and value of positioning. Some of the things it can do:
- Remove(mitigate) the need for allies to move
- Deny enemies from attacking (moving them to manipulate turn order, range, attacks etc)
- Deal massive pure damage to enemies. Just using one good trap can easily cause a good chunk of pure damage.
- Consistently increase spell weaver's damage but getting more enemies within spells AoE
All of this combined turns it into a consistent card that can continually deal massive damage, support allies And deny enemy attacks. The card is certainly not straight forward but once you experiment with I strongly consider it to be A/D tier.
Glad you liked the video dude thanks! I have tried black hole many times and to be honest its interesting, but ultimately far too much work. If it was available maybe at level 8 instead of 9 opposite inferno which is one of the best damage cards in the game then maybe it might see more play, but even then I've tried going at it hard and it just never works out how you imagine or hoped it would as pull is not a very flexible ability. With the rules changes in Frosthaven to push and pull it might be a bit more useable now though for positioning purposes.
I really agree with the vast majority your ranking.
I personnaly think Watch it Burn should step up to 'B'. It's very good for any Ranged Scoundrel build, the one you need when you don't have a reliable melee ally. adding poison and wound to all those throwing knives is pretty good.
Voice of the Night should also be 'B' move+attack always gives strong value and shift any element to Dark, plus invisibility really crown it all
Many as One and Face Your End should step down to 'E' as they are almost useless at level 9..
I would put Ethereal Manifestation to C or even B. The Versatilty of a element of your choice, created just before your turn is really helpful. Your initiative are almost always no man land bad and enemies or allies can steal your element. This help those situations !
At the end, very good ranking!
Glad you I liked it, yeah it was very tough to rank a few of these as no doubt they can be used to really great effect by certain builds/comps.
The range build on the scoundrel is just more of a niche build unfortunately that I think most players won’t ever try due to it needing those high level cards to shine and most will just take their retirement goal character.
Voice of the night we felt the fact you had to steal an element or have dark already there was enough to bump it down a tier.
The problem with ethereal manifestation is that experienced triangles players will always have the elements they need already or will be spamming vengeance. It’s not a bad little summon and if it was say a level 5/6 card or something it would be a bit more viable I think, plus the Triangles attack deck is very flat so the damage it does is nothing at level 9.
You might be right on Face your End and Many as One, but you have to respect his majesty, and at least both cards can have useful spots.
Sorry for ressurect, but i cannot believe the spellweaver+tinkerer+sun combo was not mentioned. 8! Infernos(its SW card, will be recovered) buffed with +3 dmg and wound. But MW +2dmg was mentioned xD
The thing you are missing with Interplanar Mastery is that there are more than just two builds for Summoner. I ran 3 ranged summons from first 3 turns. This makes Summoner a 6 card deck. Also, one bad early game losing one of your summons doesn't instantly ruin your game. Also Summoner is a tank, so early jump 6 is awesome.
giving "watch it burn" a bit of a hard time, sure next to all the broken stuff it doesn't look fancy, but if you play for the bottem you have a late iniative plus long move plus wound on easily 3 or more (maybe if you jumb) aka around 6 dmg or more against potentially high shield enemies without triggering any retaliate and you absolute free to play any top
also the top synergizes with the range build well lol
The three classes I’ve unlocked were the first three you covered xD
Devine intervention with the helix ring is flat out broken. Your party no longer cares about avoiding damage, can play perfect turns with little regard for safety. As a result you blitz through scenarios, when I played that combo it was really super easy.
How about a tier list of all of the instant kill abilities?
Predator and Prey with Wild Command on a ring of haste let’s you execute monsters from across the map though, definitely a pair worth keeping in long scenarios or when the party is split and you need to clear a foe out of an ally’s way
Would be cool but nope since X is the difference between the max range of the attack and number of hexes between you and the enemy wich does not work on Wild Command since it don't have a specified max range.
what I don’t get about Brute’s “King of the hill” is the Xp increment…..for a lvl 9 card? Is it trolling?
No its there for the battle goals because you might still have perks to earn.
Blind Destruction is definetly overpowered.. Combined with volatile bomb it can be like a attack 12 pierce 8 range 4(though if you pull an average +1 and power potion or something you are now at attack 18 pierce 12 etc) ... In someways better than inferno.. Instakilling 3 high health enemies can travilaizing a scenario
Thank you for another educational video. Would you ever consider a envelope x reward guide? Or would that be too hard to avoid spoilers?
I’ve been asked this a few times but I think it’s one of those mysteries that players should explore themselves, just like Isaac intended :)
I feel like Blind Destruction is pretty S tier. Have you tried it with Volatile Bomb/Explosives? Literally a 1-card combo. Did 65 damage to 4 enemies with it last night (would have been over 80 if they didn't die).No power potions. No strengthen. Absurd.
Grisly Trauma is easily A tier. Move 2 poison wound muddle all adjacent doesnt need to combo with anything to be good, and the top plays like this: you are trying to figure out how to kill 2 elites. Strategizing ways to get through shield, factoring in retaliate, some movement. You devize a semi-functional plan, and then move on to Saw to plan his turn, read the top of this card and laugh cuz they are just dead.
Yeah I have done the bomb combo its pretty absurd. I think it narrowly misses out as you need the bomb, and them all to be grouped to really pop off. I think on a different day of shooting this it might well of snuck in. I agree with Grisly actually, it was top of B, but it should probably be a solid A.
@@MandatoryQuest OOf you put Honorable Fury above my boy Grisly too? That card is like C tier to me. Took the other level 9 Redgaurd guard over it in a heartbeat.
And just.got lvl 9 on my Voidwarden tonight and wasnt exactly thrilled to see what are essentially level 4 cards. At. Best.
Funny that the best brute card is a Level X (Balanced Measure can deal 20 damage if you set it up right)
Skirmishing maneuver gives it a run for it's money.
What's with all these level 9 cards granting XP? Am I missing something?
With Nightmarish Affliction +1 target +1 curse Mass Extinction's curse is not really that great imo since it's easy to reach the curse cap of 10 at that point, and it's borderline the only 2 enhancements the class really care about.
I'd rate Hand of Destiny at C; the top is super useful, but Diviner can't really afford to burn cards, much less a permanent loss card.
Hand of Destiny is underrated.
I’m new. Why is Long Con S tier when Saw has a better version at level 8?
Just because there's another similar card it doesn't make another obsolete. Gentleman's anger also requires you to combo it with the bottom of hold back the pain which is harder and another card play. Long Con does basically the exact same thing on a better initiative in a single very efficient action that you can pair with any of your big moves. You can stamina potion back Long Con with just a minor potion for example, but the Saw would need a major potion to get back 2 cards. Gentleman's Anger is a very strong card, but its not as good as Long Con because it isn't as flexible.
I used to think King of the Hill was not a great card. But I have changed my opinion, it is super useful. Heal 5 is super useful as the brute as you are in the action taking a lot of hits. There are times you will not need to move and this is a great bottom. And the top is also a strong situational use.
Dude interplanar mastery is broken. You can recover reviving ether. Circles can live a million years with both of them equipped.
No you can't both of those cards have the permanent burn icon. They can never be recovered.
@@MandatoryQuest wait... there is a burn and a permanent non recoverable burn which are different things? i am uneducated. i was excited for circles to live forever. guess she just gets a unicorn.
@@michaelgreene6441 yeah there's another icon on those cards to indicate that. If you do want to live forever check out three spears instead 😉
You put eternal equilibrium in S but it technically requires another card or turn really to set up while other cards were put in A for that reason. Rigged! Also algorithm blessing
I guess you could say that about inferno too though right? 😉
Why even have XP gains on level 9 cards?
To still complete or fail certain battle goals
@@MandatoryQuest ah. Hadn’t thought about that
And the Secret one? B*********?
So what do you guys think? is there any we got really wrong?
Final tier list image: imgur.com/iao4YHp
Unedited full stream: ruclips.net/video/L7OvdODogeY/видео.html
Become a Patron for early access to videos - www.patreon.com/mandatoryquest
Grab some sweet merch - www.mandatoryquest.com
I wonder why didn't you take into consideration bottom part of black hole which combines greatly with Spellweaver AOE attacks (especially the one with the stun).
In the extended video we talk about that a bit more. I’ve just found it to be too cute to actually be super useful. It’s not a bad tool in the kit just not a powerful one.
Maybe you can argue Bag of Holding is not S-Tier as it needs a party with a lot of good items. But at high prosperity the card is definitly one of the most broken cards in the game, getting back all stamina potions, all power potions, all rings and earring variants for the entire party. It can do this twice in a scenario with the 3 spear. Definitly a card that can never be in frosthaven as it completely breaks the game.
The Loot 3 is just a nice bonus.
Together with the spellweaver, after you helped firing inferno thrice with all power potions and buffs almost in a row in that one scenario with only one room, you feel like someone in the city probably will mention that you guys are responsable for nuking their forests to the ground.
@@MandatoryQuest I'd like to argue a bit if you don't mind ;)
Although I like almost all classes from base game + FC, Spellweaver remains one of my favourite classes. I'd say that I find this class one of the most versatile in the game. You can be a damage-dealer, healer, control player, even an awkward tank. We've had once a situation when all our party consisted of damage dealers (spellweaver+doomstalker+scoundrel). That situation was really challanging. And it forced spellweaver to take a control/tanking role. Such a situation forced me to take Black Hole. It unexpectedly gave an outstanding effect. It helps you to grab enemies together for stun/AOE, it lets you move monsters to traps, clear the pass, drag monsters from allies... It really impressed me. Unfortunatelly spellweaver suffers from late initiatives and Black hole hav only 46. To sum up my experience I'd say that it is at the level of B-rank. Of course Inferno is better. But since we compare all the cards I'd say that it is definatelly better than E-tier.
I'd also want to give some comments on Planar Fissure. Due to my experience it is a S-tier card for 2 reasons. The first one is that it's area of effect is really huge. You can easily attack almost all monsters the same as Inferno does but with no drawback. It gives muddle which is a nice protective effect. But the second and maybe even more important reason is that this attack has improve dot on the attack effect. And therefore can be upgraded with immobilize/disarm. Yes, it is extremely expensive. But in both campaigns we've finished this upgrade was purchased - immobilize in the first and disarm in the second. Most lvl9 cards cannot be upgraded this way. This one can. That results on the absolutely insane ability that is the combination of Inferno and Long Con. Yes, it is extremely expensive and very hard to get. But the result is really broken.