YF-23 Black Widow II - Northrop's Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) That Lost To The YF-22 | Upscaled
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2022
- The Northrop/McDonnell Douglas YF-23 is an American single-seat, twin-engine stealth fighter aircraft technology demonstrator designed for the United States Air Force (USAF).
This is the story of this ATF aircraft told by test pilots, engineers and people behind this remarkable project that did not win.
The design was a finalist in the USAF's Advanced Tactical Fighter competition, battling the Lockheed YF-22 for a production contract. Two YF-23 prototypes were built, nicknamed "Black Widow II" and "Gray Ghost".
In the 1980s, the USAF began looking for a replacement for its fighter aircraft, especially to counter the USSR's advanced Sukhoi Su-27 and Mikoyan MiG-29. Several companies submitted design proposals; the USAF selected proposals from Northrop and Lockheed. Northrop teamed with McDonnell Douglas to develop the YF-23, while Lockheed, Boeing, and General Dynamics developed the YF-22.
The YF-23 was stealthier and faster, but less agile than its competitor. After a four-year development and evaluation process, the YF-22 was announced the winner in 1991 and entered production as the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. The U.S. Navy considered using the production version of the ATF as the basis for a replacement to the F-14, but these plans were later canceled. The two YF-23 prototypes are currently museum exhibits.
American reconnaissance satellites first spotted the advanced Soviet Su-27 and MiG-29 fighter prototypes in 1978, which caused concern in the U.S. Both Soviet models were expected to reduce the maneuverability advantage of contemporary US fighter aircraft. In 1981, the USAF requested information from several aerospace companies on possible features for an Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) to replace the F-15 Eagle. After discussions with aerospace companies, the USAF made air-to-air combat the primary role for the ATF. The ATF was to take advantage of emerging technologies, including composite materials, lightweight alloys, advanced flight-control systems, more powerful propulsion systems, and stealth technology. In October 1985, the USAF issued a request for proposal (RFP) to several aircraft manufacturers. The RFP was modified in May 1986 to include the evaluation of prototype air vehicles from the two finalists. At the same time, the U.S. Navy, under the Navalized Advanced Tactical Fighter (NATF) program, announced that it would use a derivative of the ATF winner to replace its F-14 Tomcat. The NATF program called for procurement of 546 aircraft along with the USAF's planned procurement of 750 aircraft.
In July 1986, proposals were submitted by Lockheed, Boeing, General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas, Northrop, Grumman and Rockwell. The latter two dropped out of competition shortly thereafter. Following proposal submissions, Lockheed, Boeing, and General Dynamics formed a team to develop whichever of their proposed designs was selected, if any. Northrop and McDonnell Douglas formed a team with a similar agreement. The Lockheed and Northrop proposals were selected as finalists on 31 October 1986 for demonstration and validation (Dem/Val). Both teams were given 50 months to build and flight-test their prototypes, and they were successful, producing the Lockheed YF-22 and the Northrop YF-23.
The YF-23 was designed to meet USAF requirements for survivability, supercruise, stealth, and ease of maintenance. Supercruise requirements called for prolonged supersonic flight without the use of afterburners. Northrop drew on its experience with the B-2 Spirit and F/A-18 Hornet to reduce the model's susceptibility to radar and infrared detection. The USAF initially required the aircraft to land and stop within 2,000 feet (610 m), which meant the use of thrust reversers on their engines. In 1987, the USAF changed the runway length requirement to 3,000 feet (910 m), so thrust reversers were no longer needed. This allowed the aircraft to have smaller engine nacelle housings. The nacelles were not downsized on the prototypes.
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 67 ft 5 in (20.55 m)
Wingspan: 43 ft 7 in (13.28 m)
Height: 13 ft 11 in (4.24 m)
Wing area: 900 sq ft (84 m2)
Empty weight: 29,000 lb (13,154 kg)
Gross weight: 51,320 lb (23,278 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 62,000 lb (28,123 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney YF119 or General Electric YF120 afterburning turbofan engines, 35,000 lbf (160 kN) with afterburner
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 (1,450 mph, 2,335 km/h) at high altitude
Supercruise: Mach 1.6+ at altitude
Range: 2,424 nmi (2,789 mi, 4,489 km)
Combat range: 651-695 nmi (749-800 mi, 1,206-1,287 km)
Service ceiling: 65,000 ft (20,000 m)
Wing loading: 57 lb/sq ft (280 kg/m2)
Thrust/weight: 1.36
Armament
None as tested but provisions made for:
1 × 20 mm (0.79 in) M61 Vulcan cannon
4 × AIM-120 AMRAAM or AIM-7 Sparrow medium-range air-to-air missiles
2 × AIM-9 Sidewinder short-range air-to-air missiles
#YF23 #northrop #aircraft 
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I’ve lived my entire life in Lancaster and Rosamond which is literally 15 -20 minutes from the Edwards AFB tarmac. The things I’ve had the pleasure of seeing flying “just cause” has been an awesome thing to grow up seeing randomly literally all the time.
The yf23 looks like it could compete for Gen 6,especially if upgraded with newer technologies. I sincerely believe the f22 was chosen because it was the safer bet(t though I'm sure there were politics involved), the y23 was just too advanced at the time.
The 23 was a bit faster and had a slightly smaller radar sig but A LOT of the systems were "upconung" when they went into the downselect program. The F22 turned better. The 23 also made larger contrails and had no thrust vectoring though it had a bigger rear wing surface. Both are amazing aircraft the main problem was the 23 program was not as developed as the 22. The 23 had more bugs and more "coming soon just pretend they are there" parts and systems than the 22. Kind of like how the X32 had to take off a bunch of parts to pass a few tests then put them back on with a "we have it sorted just didn't have time to build it" backlog of features. I somewhat recall and issue with missile storage and high Gs. The YF23 was an awesome plane and would have ended up just as good as the F22. Both programs were phenomenal. In the end the F22 program was just slightly ahead and more complete.
Plus they wanted to preserve the industrial base and what was Lockheed building at the time?
@@jaybee9269 I know I know!!! They were working on the software for the Mars Climate Orbiter. Shortly thereafter a conversation took place which went something like "What do you mean metric?"
And making arcade game systems.
No really.....
@@lknanml >> They weren’t making many airplanes at the time!🫣😵💫
Grateful for this being shown 👏 She is such a beautiful aircraft and just as fearsome looking. The pic of the B2 coming into land and the Widow taxiing on the runway below is just perfect. Politics...
👍👍
I'm a simple man. I see YF-23 I click.
🙂👍❤
LOT'S of good information here that I haven't heard or seen elsewhere. Well done!
In all my reading about these two planes, I can't help but believe that the YF23 ultimately promised to have higher performance in supercruise, stealth and range, but that Lockheed knew how to work the politics of the procurement process more effectively. We still got a very good plane, but we might have had an even better one...
Another reason that played into the decision was that Northrop had gone way over budget on the B2. Magnificent plane but the cost is insane
I hope to see the YF23 reborn into Japan's new fighter. Who knows if they build it but stealth is very expensive
Two different aircraft the F-22 /F23 both are great it may be the only time that both should have been in production.Both are way ahead of there time.
Agreed
6th gen fighter from the 80s, diamond wing complete unique design.
Why can boeng - northrop build the grey ghost same size as super f18 hornet with vectoring exhaust and sell it to other countries who are interested on the design.and I think lots of countries are interested it is a revolutionary design.
this should be the NextGen Aircraft of US...
It is indeed a wonderful fighter
japan has acquired the rights to it
Outdated at this point
@@commonavionics6069 might be, but still a wonderful aircraft.
@@Dronescapes No doubt, it isn’t a surprise it has partially inspired the NGAD apparently.
It will be funny when they roll out the NGAD plane and it’s a YF-23 😆
They should have picked both and figured it out later
Sometimes it is not how good your fighter jet is that wins you the contract when two jets are very close in capability but who you know in the Pentagon.
Should have developed F/A-23 as an attack aircraft and let the F-22 handle pure air superiority, like money matters. Imagine a strike package with these two aircraft in it.
I always love to watch this video
Still the most beautiful and fastest plane ever made even under the standards of today!
Yes, but sort of. The SR71 is the most beautiful aircraft ever designed. If we eliminate that, then yes... the F23 is unmatched
Magnificent bird. sensuous. elegant lines Just love it. . .
“Radar loves a flat plate or a sharp edge”
F117 *whistling*
I remember working on a Pratt & Whitney, 4 stroke, single piston engine in small engines class in high school and my mom used General Electric appliances (like a blender or maybe it was a hand held food mixer {the kind with 2 counter rotating beaters}). It just seems funny to me (not funny "ha-ha" but funny "weird") knowing I've interacted with very basic, low tech equipment manufactured by the same companies that produce cutting edge, highly classified military equipment.
I love the look of both planes. What I don't understand is WHY wasn't the YF-23 chosen. It was even available an entire month ahead of the YF-22...maybe someone over at McDonald/Douglas was buddy-buddy with those on capitol hill more so than those at Lockheed. Maybe McDonald/Douglas promised some favors/kickbacks/under-the-table stuff to those who pick the big military contracts.
Northrop was dealing with delays on the B2 and the YF-22 showed up with thrust vectoring. It wowed the powers that be into thinking it wouldn't need to dogfight, but could also dogfight.
I think the better jet lost too. The YF-23 had been doing refuels at all speeds and even opened the weapons bay for the judges.
They should have made them simulate a battle.
The yf-23 was a 6th generation fighter in a 4th generation world
Nice work
I love these videos very cool
Insane video
It’s insane to think that the F22 was designed in the late 80s
Whats crazier is fhe Boeing Quiet Bird that was made in the 60s
I think the AF likes Lockheed fighters and Northrup bombers. I was on the Martin avionics design team for the YF-23, partnered with McDonnell Douglas and Westinghouse. I worked on one particular sensor. When the YF-22 was chosen, the Air Force decided to put our sensor on the F-22. I'm not bragging, because it was our chief systems engineer who oversaw the development and showed us how to design the best optimal sensor. The AF liked him a lot except for one thing, which I can't discuss. He taught me one great thing - Quaternion matrices. Now some of you may think quaternions have been obsoleted by Newton calculus. That's what the other team thought, too.
Which kind of Math did you guys use on the YF-23? We got Quaternion Matrices, and what else?
@@elijahprasad7884 I'm not sure what your asking, because we used all kinds of math from simple addition to simple divide. Quaternions were only used selectively on certain functions that they were well suited for.
@@koyotekola6916How were Quaternions used for the sensor?
@@elijahprasad7884 I cannot answer that, Elijah. Sorry.
@@koyotekola6916 Is it classified? Thank you anyway🥇
Rest in peace Dr Liu
Is he dead?! 😳
@@christianvernaghi3966Yes, he passed away in 2018.
Ohh...😢@@un9ty
Dr Yu-Ping Liu died in 2018 aged 72.
This could still be a viable option for the US. Tech is more advanced now which would make this the top fighter in tue skys
Greatest 👍🙏❤️
The most beautiful jet fighter ever made. But sometimes I wonder if it is cost effective to be used in real battle.
the best medium range stealth attack aircraft
A guy I knew at Northrop said that when the first F-23 was rolled out to present to a bunch of big-wigs, upon power-up it began to flap its control surfaces like a wounded turkey. This provoked laughter from the onlookers. I do not know if the story is true but if someone else here was at the event they could respond.
Interesting story, I wonder if anyone can contribute
It was the stability augmentation system which on the ground tried to correct the airplane flight moving the surfaces at every bump on the tarmac. it was later corrected.
Isn't GE in China now?
Anyway super Kool hands down YF23, every time I watch this video,my heart goes out to all Northrop Grumman, and MCDONALD Douglas folks who gave their all for the protection and patriotism that went into creating a aircraft to keep America secure.
You guys should've won.❤️
Northrop Corporation developed the YF23 with McDonnell Douglas between 1982 to 1991. Northrop didn’t merge with Grumman until 1994
Wow that plane is beautiful what the hell were they 🤔
Sure seems like this plane should be built today!
It's beautiful and mean looking at the same time. It looks like it's intent on eating you up.
👍👍
I have the model in 1/48 scale by Hobbyboss.I love that plane.
👍
Black Widow II / Gray Ghost is amazing! Hope the rumor the Japanese are considering for themselves is true.
Widow & Raptor probably caused a few hemmorhages in the KGB.
They next 6g
This plane is the Best of the Best , all times.
This plane is the GOAT
Such a beautiful aircraft why they never went for this i dont know.
Politics...
I was watching the news when they announced a competition between the 2 planes and it was decided that F-22 would get the contract because it was more cost effective. Nothing wrong with 23 but it just simply cost more to make.
CONTRACT AWARDED TO THE BLACK WIDOW ATF YF 23
This would still beat the junk35 today.
Diamond wing looks like a serious lift and stability issue at a glance
Like the F-15? 😅
Best
I wish the ATF-23 would have won
Lack of thrust vectoring May have been a factor why it wasn’t chosen .
Id say stability look at that diamond wing looks really bad for lift it might be ok at higher speeds but id say disastrous at lower speeds how many diamond wings have you seen chosen for fighters?,
If you look the requirements for the ATF, thrust vectoring shouldn't have been a factor when the whole point of the ATF was to defeat Soviet air defense and long-range weaponry.
It was just as manoverable as the yf22 tho
@@brizzy991the diamond shape was for low speed stability that didn't compromise high speeds. It also worked great for stealth.
The diagonal "rudders" were huge. That's where the control came from.
I was under the impression, that whichever manufacturers didn't get their plane accepted, were guaranteed to be a major subcontractor by way of compensation. I may be wrong...?
It is a good moment to the United State🇺🇸
Most of this looks to be from the “Web of Secrecy” video. One thing I never understood was the little derpy attempt at thrust-vectoring above the thermal troughs of the exhausts.
It didn't have thrust vectoring. The original requirements of the ATF program required short field capability for supply and rearm. Thus it was designed with the intakes sized for thrust reversers. Although they were never fitted. The production version would have slimmed down the engine humps significantly and it would have been even stealthier and faster
Omg. The YF-23 is shaped similar to the fictional Firefox from Clint Eastwood movie.
Great greatest USA 👍💗👍💗💗
Why hasn't the Black Widow not been taken up with a different country?
I'd make it part of the fleet now. Get rid of the F-18, 15, and 16 then we have the 22, 23 and 35. Their problem solved we win everyone else loses.
Wait, Wonder Woman had a Invisible F-104?
Should of put both in production with both the f-22 and f-23 would allow the US to dominate the sky's for years in my opinion I understand a lot of cost but how do you put a price on safety of our country and most of all our pilots during war
I agree with you 100% money wasn't the issue with the way democrats always throw it at different countries.
People couldn't see into the future. In the 1990s Russia was struggling just not to starve, and the best planes China was producing were Mig-21s improved with 1980s American avionics... The YF22/YF23 was one to two generations ahead technologically, not to mention the American airforce's huge numerical advantage, so it really wasn't necessary spending double to keep both.
the plane we should have got...
This is a great plane but no thrust vectoring and wing design are main reasons they did not pick the YF-23.
like it couldnt be added.... this thing will be the base design of the 6th gen. watch....
What was bad about the wing design?
@@tylero2112 All the 6th gen renderings look a lot like the F-23.
They housed the engines a particular way with specific outlet ducts to further stealth properties. From what I've seen a out yf23 it was maneuverable enough without vectoring to barely be out rated by the 22. Thus briging back the political aspect of the winner there was many factors in play to have caused the raptor to be chosen. I myself don't agree with it though the 22 is by no means bad when I say that. The widow was just something else. Foreshadowing future setups that would be showing the capacity all wrapped into the yf23 as it stood. A true symbol of its time
this plane will be brought back . mark my word. it loooked 6th gen when we were going to 5th...saw this thing at the air force museum down the street is gorgeous you dont understand it until you see it and you get confused how the hell it lost to the f22
It seems that Japan might get it
It’s quite sad that it was said iirc; that the 23 was “too” stealthy wrt to coatings and other approaches. As if it was a waste and over done. I think this was interesting and tbf a dumb assessment by the other side.
Its continuing in development with Japan. the extra $ will help and this fighter will help japan defense. From what I gathered they approched US & Northrop-McDonnel Douglas on joint development . Yhey were not having success with theirs and taking too long.
great idea!
Isn't the YF23 the one that the f22 beat out due to politics? Or was it a different plane?
The same. This video is the story of the plane that never was
@@Dronescapes can't wait
@@evanbeers1644 It's VERY interesting, since the test pilots are explaining a lot of details
without a doubt ahead of time
@@roadkill-uk Agreed!
If the YF-23 was just as maneuverable as the YF-22who gave a s***, whether it had
Thrust Vectoring or not, thrust vectoring is just expensive and something more to go wrong.!
6TH GEN ALREADY APPROVED.
#1
Missiles faster than bullets🤔?
Yes, of course. Missiles can go Mach 4
Are you OK buddy? 😂😂
No thrust vectoring, pthbbb! That's horse shhhoe...uh. Yeah, I'm sure this was justified in that; they knew the f22 was going to be the chosen fighter. While the f 23 was quietly held in some back hangar, just waiting. Waiting to be the testbed of future EW, and High Energy Weapons. That's why it was gutted. The tech just needed to be invented, and then installed: installed in an already produced and forgotten hyper stealthy jet, and then flown around going, "YIPPIE!"
Just to let everyone know you can personally see this aircraft at the western museum of flight.
Thanks for the info ♥️🙏
Should have developed F-23 as an attack aircraft and let the F-22 handle air superiority. Like money matters.
I'm hoping the F-23 will be reborn as our next super fighter after the F-22.
If you look at artist rendering of proposed 6th generation fighters, the inspiration is obvious. None of them looks like the F-22.
YF-23 > YF-22. The better plane lost.
The nation of Japan knows a good thing when they see it. And that's why they're gonna make a new Modern version of the YF23 and not buy any of the current American fighters from American manufactures! No PC pentagon BS for Japan!
Bizarre video man
Story says when they stuck the model of YF23 on the pole they use to shoot radar at plane. The radar only came back with readings from the pole and it was like the plane wasn't even there. The pole was designed to emit very low radar signature and it still totally washed out the plane
هههههه…
Lockheed has better lobbyists than Northrop, simple as.
Sexiest 5th gen fighter. Not even close. I find the F22 the ugly sister in comparison. I wish the F23 had won out.
The 229 was NOT stealthy.
これってさあ、尾翼取って無尾翼機にすればいいんじゃないの?
trying to sell a state of the art product to a bunch of duulards, requires more than excellence. History shows, that snake oil is required, when selling something beyond the IQ of the buyer. Our top brass is just plain stupid.
For me the YF-23 was the winner. This Astethics just amazing Plane that should get picked over the F-22. Sure The F-22 is still amazing but the YF-23 got more potential.
I think we built it...it's better than the Raptor....it's a secret plane. You do realize we have weapons that are Top-Secret. We don't publish all of our capabilities...example: F-22' s fly off carriers 😵 (Retired Navy) bet ya' didn't know that.
I always believed that it was possible to fly F22's from carriers. Years ago, when they were testing both the 23 & the 22, I read in Janes Aircraft that the Navy had been doing evals for both. Part of the requirements they had was that the nose gear needed to be sturdier for catapult launches. I can't say for sure bc of how long it's been but I remember seeing a photo of an F23 on a carrier deck. I said then and Still believe it should have been the replacement interceptor for the TomCat. It was faster, had stealth, had slightly longer legs and the dihedral wings supposedly made carrier landings easier.
I didn't KNOW the F-22 was carrier capable, but I had my suspicions. The things that kept me from believing even more that these low observable craft were carrier capable were 1: the catch hook (drag hook? The bar that scrapes along the deck designed to grab one of those 4 arrester cables) and folding the wings to save space on the carrier, those things would increase it's radar signature?...the radio waves that bounce off the craft back to the radar sending waves looking for flying military stuff.
I think you're delusional
6th generation coming soon fy23
Eh binta nyo na yan sa pinas YF23 na yan para nd na kayu magalala sa FJ nayan please..
kim jung un and vladimir putin agree with this video 😁