Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy
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- Опубликовано: 29 июн 2024
- Gnosticism was one of the earliest heresies of the Church, and it remains among the most enduring. With an emphasis on special knowledge acquired only by a small group of enlightened elites, as well as a sharp division between spirit and matter, with spiritual things being good and material things being evil, Gnosticism still thrives today everywhere from crack conspiracy theories to Hollywood movies to our culture of self-invention. Bishop Barron discusses Gnosticism and why it ultimately fails to satisfy.
A listener asks Bishop to help her understand the resurrection of the body.
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"The enduring heresy" sounds like a pretty rad thrash metal song.
Sounds like a song Dimmu Borgir would come up with! Lol
@@sheldonmurphy6031 or slayer
@@ixisinvestigator6009
Heck Ya!!
Demiurge 😈
You should call your band gnostic sunshine.🤣😂
“Brandon it’s always a joy to be with you”
Brandon missed his opportunity to say “and also with you”
😆
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (RSV-CI)
I want a refund
@@danielrko9895 its so hard to be human because we should be doing what god asks of us. But this world really throws many distractions at me.
So..you just called God a spirit without actually saying it. Thanks for confirming gnosticism!
@@eljehova3942 God being spirit isn't gnostic, that's just true and understood in Judaism as well as Christianity. That's a classic move of gnosticism, they try to claim things as their own idea. Evil is bad "aha! That's gnosticism, thanks for agreeing with me!".
@@arcguardian Here is a fun fact for you Copts, Nazeeren, Essen and Gnostic Christians were the first Christians ever later were replaced by Catholic Idolaters Orthodox tots and Protestant Luther idiots we never burnt anyone at the stake we also keep the bible unlike modern Christians..
I'm just glad philosophy is alive in Church. Discussions and questions are a great food to mind.
Justin Martyr could have said that.
What are the major texts of gnosticism? And who are the major players?
Right. Philosophy...from the same church that killed thousands of scientists, philosophers, and intellectuals for hundreds of years during the Middle Ages.
@@upliftsouls Your pretentious variety of complete ignorance and non-understanding is so common, it's asinine. Someone else has made a comment in response to similar nonsense about the Middle Ages. It suffices for what you've said, regardless:
"The Middle Ages were so dark indeed, that their golden age (taking place between the XI and XIV centuries) saw the birth of the gothic Cathedrals, the greatest and finest product of human sacred architecture as well as the birth of Polyphony (school of Notre Dame 1160-1250) and musical notation.
Technological activity was at such a stop that from the XI to XIV century more stone was extracted, shaped, carried and more stonework achieved than during the whole of Egyptian antiquity.
So little technological advances were made, indeed, that the Middle Ages are unanimously considered as the main and most important period of agricultural growth.
The heavy and wheeled ploughs, the three field rotation system, horseshoes, shoulder collars (rather than neck collars which tires the animal quickly) being all inventions of the Middle Ages that contributed with the rise of feudalism and the great clearances (the generalised deforestation of western European territories that widened exploitable space) to the near tripling of European population from 1000 to 1250.
And don't even get me started on the subject of milling and self-sufficient technologies (water powered hammers, sawmills, cranes...) which were perfected during the Middle Ages, allowing more efficient work and better productivity, leading to an early form of low scale industrialisation both in urban and rural areas.
The Middle Ages were so ignorant and opposed to knowledge, that universities, an invention of the Church, were created so that laics (rather than clercs only) could benefit from higher education.
Some of these universities still standing as we speak (Bologna since 1088 AD, Oxford since 1096, la Sorbonne since 1150, Cambridge since 1209 etc...).
So hateful of knowledge that they legalised practices such as human dissection (forbidden in the pagan cultures of antiquity, especially under the Roman empire), promoted large scale writting and copying through the work of countless monks and were the founders of Scolasticism, about which I will let you research by yourself.
The medieval Church and the Middle Ages were so backward indeed that they brought women to the highest spheres of society, a thing unthinkable for most during Roman antiquity; and affirmed their role in political and religious affairs.
Women of the Middle Ages as well as men were thinkers, Queens, writers, teachers, theologian, Dutchess, doctors, landlords, Abess...
Women of the peasantry, just like their husbands could inherit property and land, employ labour force, and preside over large agricultural complexes.
The wives of merchants and urban artisans (which would assemble in guilds) were traditionally responsible for keeping accounts and were thus well educated in mathematical science, having themselves the right to form guilds.
The Abbey of Fontevraud, one of the major medieval monastic community in France, has traditionally been led by women from its foundation (in 1101) to its dissolution during the French Revolution.
St Hildegard Von Bingen, a mystic who lived in the XII century, wrote treaties on medecine, nature, philosophy, religion and music; and is considered to be the first German naturalist.
St Hilda of Whitby, who lived in VII century England, founded the Abbey of Whitbey which became one of the most important centre of the Church in England prior to the viking invasions.
Eleanor of Aquitaine, one of the most powerful women of History, lived in the XII century as the Duchess of Aquitaine and lived to become successively queen of France and England.
And many others which I will let you make your own research about : Herrad of Lansberg, Anne de Bretagne, Jeanne d'Arc, Héloïse d'Argenteuil, Trota di Salerno, Blanche de Castille, and countless more...
The medieval Church promoted labour rights we take today for granted, abolished slavery in Europe (until its reappearance during the Renaissance) and assured education for the masses through rural schools, led by local clercs since the Carolingian Reform (end of the VIIIth century), in which children of peasants and artisans learned basic mathematics and litterature.
The medieval peasant of the XIth century worked in the crops for less than half the days of the year, the remaining being consacred to rest, worship and local festivities.
We are also often told that social ascension was totally impossible during the Middle Ages; yet this couldn't be more wrong as monasteries, seminaries and diverse congregations provided exactly that for the poor and rich alike.
Countless people from modest or brilliant origines became prolific thinkers, writers, artists and musicians thanks to the Church.
Modern judiciary laws (which we take for granted) such as the presumption of innocence and social equality in front of the justice are a product of inquisiorial tribunals of the medieval Inquisition.
And I could go on for hours as there is so much more to say.
Saying that the Middle Ages were dark in any way whatsoever is a display of blatant ignorance."
-- Sunbro
@@dalhillama5858 you just replied with a bunch of nothingness. Advanced technology? Really? As if. With the advancement of technology comes the advancement of society as a whole, yet as we see from the Middle Ages, the majority of europeans were not literate and could not even keep up with personal hygiene. Yet, thousands of miles away during the same time period when the Europeans were dealing with The Bubonic Plague killing millions, natives in the America’s had advanced irrigation systems, advanced religion, advanced architecture, advanced philosophy, mathematics, etc. the church has only slowed down societal progress. Clearly, you know nothing about true history. In your attempt to try and “prove me wrong” for whatever reason, maybe due to your big ego, that you have made yourself look like a fool. You have provided nothing of substance. That long paragraph was a waste of yours and my time. Currently I’m at the gym however I stopped just to read that atrocity you just directed towards me. The church may have provided very few contributions to society, but as a whole, no organization has been more corrupt than the Roman Catholic Church, the extension of the Roman Empire, which was pagan and corrupt as well. You’re clueless.
14:59 , i can confirm that Carl Jung was deeply influenced by Gnosticism , actually in a way it was Gnosticism through Carl Jung and his scholars that brought me back to Christ and Catholicism .
@Revolvin Goatt tell your eye to stop belonging to the collectivism of your body. You can have freedom and that alone is a poor reason to stop brushing your teeth or trimming your armpit hair.
Gnostics still think highly of Christ. They just disown the "God" of the Old Testament and believe he's the Demiurge.
@Revolvin Goatt Marxism is not against religion but communism and by that I mean the bolsheviks. Marxists just wanted religion out of politics which I seem fair that some religions are very toxic like the orthodox church even more Judaism because of the wounds of the past. Especially since Marx was more critical of his ex religion aka Judaism.
Exactly, and why does he have to have a genealogy of x, y, and z? Ad fontes, people! Find a pdf of the gospels of john, matt, luke, mark, AND tom. Read them for yourself. It's not like we're in the year 1500 when "nobody" could read. We shouldn’t play broken telephone with His words.
wow. the last book i read before reading the Bible and returning to the Catholic Church was "Man and His Symbols." Praise be to God for shining his Light upon us!
WE COME FROM THE LIGHT. AND WE ARE GOING BACK TO THE LIGHT.
WHY ARE YOU YELLING?
@@Epiousios18 WHY NOT?
@@robjackbl9886 Lol that's right!
Us apes
After several years I came to appreciate how important Bishop Barron's views are because these topics are so niche. Thanks
"Though they share in the same language and conceptual categories, the Gnostic and the Hermeticist are quite different. The Gnostic desires to escape the world, the Hermeticist desires to fix it. The Great Work constitutes the creation of abundance and the dispelling of scarcity. We should be building a world we don't feel pressured to escape. - The Modern Hermeticist"
With God alone can we achieve either of these for we are trapped in our very natures within the corruption of the world that is sin and its cascading effects in contingent events. God bless you.
anywhere that they baptize with water AND fire will show you the truth. for we must be baptized with both to see the truth and be guided by the Holy Spirit. as far as i know the only ones who do this is the pentecostal and apostolic churches. many do not seek them out since they ask for sacrifice before you are spiritually lifted up.
The goal of Hermeticism is to attain Liberation (Soteria) from Metempsychosis (Reincarnation in this world), same thing with Gnosticism. It's NOT to remain here getting reborn over and over again. You don't know what you are talking about.
The word "heresy" comes from haeresis, a Latin transliteration of the Greek word originally meaning choosing, choice, course of action, or in an extended sense school of thought then eventually came to denote warring factions and the party spirit by the first century.
There's a difference between the intellectual and the moral. Heresy is about holding onto a partial truth, that is, choosing truths, and is therefrore an intellectual defect. Then these warring factions and party spirits emerge as a consequence, but are all moral defects. The problem is that nowadays heresy has lost its meaning as an intellectual defect and is seen as a purely moral defect instead. That is, everyone sees party spirits and warring factions instead of truth versus falsehood, therefore concluding that unity, a chosen party spirit and a chosen faction is the only truth and therefore division is the only falsehood.
@@seriouscat2231, well said
@@sweeneytodd8318, homegrown gnostics usually have the kind of letter and word games you have there, not to mention numerology games. The joke with all occult and gnostic things is that all occult and gnostic is anti-doctrinal. There is no philosophy, no worldview, no metaphysics, no real system, but just the act of secrecy, a simulation of knowing. Or wonder. Or enthrallment. In this sense, Bp. Barron, the church of Vatican II, Opus Dei and these "real" Gnostics here are all equal. There's real knowledge, referring to real Aristotelian and Thomist metaphysics. And then there's what I'd call "porn of knowledge".
@@jackdarby2168 spoon feeding only makes for weak peers.
@@seriouscat2231 jokes on you, I’m a thomist gnostic hehehe
I’m just wondering why the Catholic Church spent thirty years massacring every last Gnostic into extinction.
He’s just coping because his world-wide cult has more brainlets than a group of less than 5,000 thinking Chads.
Probably out of self-preservation. A system of thought that looked a lot more attractive would go against their own interests, considering the evolution of all established orthodox churches in the Christian tradition. It is only understandable that people would go with the gnostics when their material life was shitty. If you or your family got horribly sick with no cure, if you had a hard time finding food and other basic supplies, if you noticed the smell of your own body and that of others, what else would you come to think? Gaslight yourself into thinking it was actually good? I don't know what the truth is, but I can understand both why gnostics said what they said, and why the orthodox Christian churches say what they say.
Because the Gnostic is unique in that ONLY physical pain is a deterrent.
The Gnostic cannot be “persuaded” by reason because reality itself is rejected by the Gnostic.
“massacring” how? was there a holocaust of gnostics?
Not saying gnosticism is true, but continually accusing them of having a "private club" superiority complex, is not an argument against it. Christianity started as a group of 12 people so it was small at the start and surely some initial followers joined it because of the special club aspect, there's always hipsters. However, does not mean it's a heresy. When you press this point you sound like what the romans or Jews would say against early Christianity.
The issue is that the private club is dead. Their secret teachings are gone. Any modern "Gnosticism" is a shell. The only possible exception is Sabianism- and only Sabians can recieve divine knowledge, so they wouldn't tell you!
The Catholic faith is laid to bare, it is all out in the open. There is no special teachings that only the priest know. It is an inclusive religion in that regard. It doesn't attempt to exclude people through privileged access to divine knowledge.
@@HarveyDangerLurker as somebody who has considered himself gnostic it does appeal to a slcertain type of narcissism. I know something you don't. Watching a Jew worship God and internally just smugly smiling. "I can't believe he is worshipping yaldabaoth". Watching people cry around you and giving some mild judgement. "Mom none of this is real just relax"
@@HarveyDangerLurkerum you know the whole only using Latin and killing people who translated the Bible into more well used languages is well known history and like the whole reason Lutheranism became popular
@@HarveyDangerLurker This is misleading. Even if clergy did not hold special secret beliefs distinct from official Catholic orthodoxy, historically the content of scripture and the writings of theologians have been closed off to the general laity. Not through some conspiracy, but thanks to material conditions. For much of history, a significant portion of Christendom was illiterate and books were not widely available. So while it's true that Catholicism does not gate keep knowledge of the divine as a matter of principle, Catholic institutions did functionally force people to interact with God through approved mediators. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the Church did not exclude people, when by its very nature it was exclusionary. Doesn't make sense to pretend that Catholic clergy were all "men of the people" and not members of a relatively privileged, educated class that was sometimes immune to civic prosecution. But obviously things have changed significantly in the past couple centuries.
I got this fig tree in my back yard, I know it is a good fig tree because it produces good figs.
Mmm that sounds like a _GOOOOOD_ fig tree, sir.
😅👍👍
🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🙂
What are the major texts of gnosticism? And who are the major players?
I’ve only watched 20 seconds so far, while reading the comments, and I feel like you’ve already won. “Peaches” by TPOTUSOA plays in my mental background.....
Buddhism takes care of all of the problems involved with Gnosticism.
Gnostic knowledge that all is part of a whole/divine, in a very general way of putting it, is not secret at all.
Yeah, I was always saw Gnosticism as an extremely under-developed and incomplete version of Buddhism.
Buddhism is very similar to gnosticism.
@@plotinus393Yeah. Similar, but I prefer Buddhism all the way over Gnosticism for a reason.
I love Gnosticism. I go to a protestant church, listen to Catholic priest on the internet and hang out with addicted people and sinners. Great times we live in.
Hell yes
I love reading and studying religious texts, histories and practices of multiple peoples.
I practice Christianity, am a member of a Luther congregation.
But I have no empirical evidence of any religion being "right"
But I find insight into how we can live together and find meaning in life in most all texts.
I love texts of my traditions and The Upanishads, gnostic books, the words of Buddha, other Hindu and Buddhist texts, there's a lot out there. Only read a little on Taoism, but want to read more.. I'm a reading nerd. The norse stories are fascinating to me. Odin knows he will lose at ragnarok, but he prepares to fight anyway...gathering the greatest warriors to help him in a doomed battle.
Truly a buffet of splendor.
“I belong to the little group that knows the answers” -Every religion ever.
But Father, I do experience that I am in a prisoner of my body. I am an ugly fat bastard and I've been struggling with weight loss for more than 8 years now without any significant change. I am part of the physical world I despise, and I hate being here. I hate society, I hate the total and utter moral bankruptcy of the world and I hate how everything is treated as a product, including sex and relationships! I hate how uncertain everything is and I despise that every bit of hope I can get my desperate little hands on comes in the form of metaphor or ancient stories. We ARE PRISONERS!
Can I make a suggestion? Perform some simple act of love every day. Will the good of someone else. I think you'll find your way out of prison.
Bishop Robert Barron Amen
Great teachings! Greetings from Brazil!
It’s actually wrong
@@faithalonekjv5123, these drive-by arguments of you Protestants actually look childish and neurotic. Bp. Barron is wrong, from a Catholic viewpoint, but you would never know this, because Protestant doctrine lacks all necessary depth. Which is why you oppose everything and have nothing.
Bom dia 😚
Leviticus 19:31 Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God. it's no different today as in jesus's time.
Its hard not to see Catholicism as effectively gnostic if it would take days to speak on the ressurection of the body or the fact that new revelation can happen with the Pope.
Dear Bishop Barron, Thank you for this video, it has certainly helped address some of my questions regarding gnosticism and why it's heretical. It has raised more which I cannot articulate here, but I feel I'm in a better place to seek the answers. Content of this kind is so important right now so please continue as much as you are capable of. God bless you and you endeavours.
Please, I would take Gnostism to orthodox Christianity any day of the week.
Indeed. Please do go on, Bishop.
@@TheMilitantMazdakiteand you would be led astray any day of the week then.
@@horneytoaster4773 damn daeva worshipper.
Thank you so much for the work you do for our Holy Mother Church. We are so blessed to have you putting in the tireless time and effort to "herd" all of us sheep (though I'm sure is more like herding cats than sheep)! You speak to all of us--from the "Crusader-In-My-Veins" Catholic, to the Daughter of Rome (ahem), to the RCIA convert, to the querying Protestant, to the intellectually-rambunctious atheist. And always without patronising or condescension, and with thoughtfulness, humility, and humour! Know that there are so many for whom even just your RUclips notifications popping up on our phone serve as a gentle reminder, often at just the right moment, that whatever we are doing, and whatever we are, FIRST, we are Catholic; wherever we are, THERE is the living Church.
So much to think about. So thankful for Word on Fire. God bless you all.
Great posting. Thank you for the great response about the form that makes the body
William James, on viewing the body of Alice, his dead sister: "That matter could take such beloved form!"
I'm a Protestant, and even I found Bishop Barron's talk on Transubstantiation very informative. Thankyou!
Collins Anosike What’s clear is that no amount of contorting Scripture will create any endorsement of the Roman Catholic Mass. From every angle, it is biblically indefensible
@AskAScreenwriter 👍
@Prasanth Thomas huh?
Good talk, but my faith in the One will not change, I'm a Gnostic
Gob bless you man me too😎
Same here! ❤️☮️✝️
Thank you, Bishop! And Holy! Holy! Holy! is the thanksgiving celebration of God Himself as the Eucharist Who Is our daily Bread of Life, and is that which He Who Is God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit has provided within His one holy Catholic and likeminded Apostolic Church!
I have to say, gnosticism as a system of beliefs seems cool because of its mysterious and complex cosmology and aesthetic.
Christianity is way more complex ... did you study theology ? Humongus amount of material to know because if not you will be mislead ... mentality of 2000 years old tryibg to clinch to 2020
@@DrRemorse christianity is not complex at all lol
@@DrRemorse nah
Since theology is study of religion and gnosticism being a smart but mysterious part ... i can assume theology is more comllicated due that gnsticism is part of theology and there is way more work to analyse that disprove gnoaticism then what they probably ever wrote in the first place ... understand words first and then comment
It got lots of cool and interesting characters when you think about it. The aeons, Sophia, the Demiurge, the archons... it's a fascinating mythology (or series of mythologies)
Bishop Barron did quite a bit of a Strawman here, just enough to keep most Christians from deviating from the “faith.” Christians should ask themselves, why is Gnosticism creeping into their churches.
Christianity is a “faith” base religion which was acceptable by most people in the past but in our current era more and more people are not accepting things on faith. Gnosticism on the other hand, although having elements of faith, is a knowledge based. This knowledge is not a secret in the sense that’s explain by Barron. This knowledge is “hidden” because most people are not aware of it but it’s definitely not some sort of secret that’s being kept from the masses. Any and everyone can acquire this knowledge. In many ways it is a dangerous knowledge to have which is the main reason it is attack so viciously by the Christian leaders. This knowledge could bring the end to the Christian church as we know it today.
If you truly want to know about Gnosticism don’t get your information from people who view it as a heresy.
This.
Exactly. Even the very topic of debate predicated on "why Gnosticism is so appealing" is a massive Strawman to begin with.
The Gnostic tradition is more Pagan than anything else. I think this is why the Church has gone after it. You could add Gnostic Jesus to your Polytheistic Pantheon and you'd be fine. Can't do that with the Jesus from the Bible though lol
"It's not faith based, it's knowledge based... Some of that knowledge is hidden and dangerous... 'We know what's really going on...'"
Lol this is typical gnostic silliness. You just proved His Excellency's point.
...Knowledge based? How about mental illness based. That sounds more like it.
@@AluminiumT6 so Christianity went from faith-base to knowledge-base, and Gnosticism went from knowledge-base to mental-illness base. Is this what you're saying?
Dear farther! It is so grateful that i can also watch this video in south korea.
The video gives me the concepts, genealogy, cultural effects of gnosticism, and the reason Church recognizes it as heresy.
Honestly, I didn't know how broadly and unconsciously gnosticism can affect public (even people who are in church)
I sincerely hope that these videos are subtitled in korean language too, so more people can approch
Thank you Bishop Barron!
As a Zoroastrian, I love Gnostism. They respect women, just like us, the followers of Zarathustra.
I've come back to this after hearing it when it first posted. I was trying to remember who said, "ç'est foi publique". It was Pope Benedict, and what he said was, "ç'est une théologie publique". Great stuff gentlemen!
This is a good one.
Thanks for reminding me of the book! I have set it on reminder but the phone didn't remind me.
Orthodox religion fears introspection more than the endless evils it creates. The persecution of gnostic thought shamelessly continues unabated since early times, orthodoxy content with imposed tyrannical doctrine strangely mirroring human deficiencies.
What are the major texts of gnosticism? And who are the major players? What are the anti-gnostics and authors too?
Suddenly found this video and it matches our movement need in regard to the resurrection of the body, thank you for the question and thank you bishop for answering it.
I’m elated to hear you’ll be on Order of Man! Not everyone in that movement is non-religious...can’t wait to hear your discussion with Ryan and “what it means to be a man.”
Excellent timing on this. Just reading the early chapters of Pelikan’s the Christian tradition.
The listener question at the end about the resurrection of our body when we die. 24:01 "Well okay, God can do whatever he wants" xD. Got me rolling he nailed the low-key feeling we have about it.
Thank you for uploading. I always enjoy hearing your theologic speaches.
'We have stripped the Pope of his temporal power and we will never rest till we strip him of his spiritual power as well."
- Giordano Bruno
I think Gnostics want everyone to be enlightened. So I'm not really sure if the small sect being appealing is a very valid argument. Especially when traditional Protestant sects often fulfil the same purpose.
I think a better reason why people find Gnosticism appealing is the tension between body and soul. They wonder why the instincts of the body always desires sin, through addiction, gluttony, emotional reactions, desire for violence, etc. When Traditional Christianity teaches the body is good, even though from their own observation it is constantly fighting against what they have been told is good.
Another point is that other religions that play more into the simple world view, such as Zoroastrianism, have been declining to almost negligible numbers, whereas Gnosticism is one of the only religions that seems to be growing.
I would really like to hear the churches reason for why the body (or even the entirety of nature) desires sin if it is supposed to be good. These are observations people can make for themselves, but I haven't heard a satisfactory answer for it from the Holy Roman church, or really any other Christian sect, whereas Gnosticism provides an answer.
I think you touched on the answer to your question when you acknowledged the nature of the flesh desiring sin. It doesn’t really desire sin but pleasure. Pleasure is a good, but when it is disordered it becomes sinful, ie gluttony...
@@mikelopez8564, thank you for responding! I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to explain a little but of this perspective to me.
For context, I am neither a Gnostic, nor a Roman Catholic. I'm curious about theology in general, and the Catholic Church's perspective on Gnostic raised questions is a very interesting topic.
We dont desire "sin" we desire EXPERIENCE which is the whole reason we are here! The church has labeled anything enjoyable as a "sin" to control ppl; to keep them from opening their minds and learning through their experiences, because then they would no longer be completely & 100% dependent on the church for all the answers
I am studying something called Hyperianism and their explanation goes like this: when you label something as taboo or "off limits" or a "sin," it only makes you want to do it more. Whereas if we were more open an honest and let ppl experience it, it is no longer so alluring. It is never healthy to just beat down your desires and ignore them. Thats why there are so many perverts in the church who abuse their power and abuse children, etc. Because they are constantly suppressing their sexual needs it only exacerbates it and makes it worse; so they become nasty perverts.
Think of it like this; if you have been wandering in a desert for days denying yourself water and you are thirsty, you are going to fantasize about waterfalls of gushing water. And if you have a sip if water it wont be enough to quench your thirst you will just want MORE.
But lets take that same person and put them in the middle of a water park and let them drink as much water as they want. They will hardly think about water bc their thirst is satisfied - it wont even cross their mind!
Anything in moderation can be FINE, too much of anything can be BAD. But 1 thing that is certain is denying your needs does not make them go away & in fact it will only exacerbate the need. Just like how the harder you try not to think about something the more you will think about it. We are literally here to experience life its how we grow & and learn & develope as spiritual beings. In my opinion of course😅
@@carolyngrey2853 MorgueOfficial. I knew about Gnosticism before him, but he's got interesting views on life, sadly, I DO believe in a creator, unlike him, but I'm unsure who this creator is, I do dig the mathematics element to his belief system though.
But what about Jesus not only using parables so that all might not understand, but furthermore only explaining them to his disciples?
Wise words.
The listeners were the cause of their own lack of understanding. Some did understand, some did not. There was nothing to be gained from head-on confrontation with those who did not understand the parables. Whereas the core of Gnosticism is not some particular truth but a simulated experience of truth.
@@seriouscat2231 A truth which we learn and then we can spread to others. All things, you can say, are simulated in this world, since we learn of certain truths (the truths of the Gospel) yet we still remain in the sinful flesh (see Paul) and we still sin/fall yet aspire to these higher ideals of the spirit. That is why Paul says that one who is reborn in Christ may still sin with the body, but be spiritually saved. We can only achieve a mental simulation of the ideal, through the knowledge of that ideal, while living in this material world. No one is without sin, yes? So, our experience of the sinless ideal truth will only be simulated while we are still on this earth. You can see that once you learn the Gnostic perspective, rereading the Gospels in the regular Bible suddenly becomes more clear.
@@clonetrooper71, what you just said is totally nonsensical. You're just playing fast and loose with word definitions. Which is how most of Gnosticism actually works.
@@seriouscat2231 What in particular did you not understand?
14:13: _"Matter is good, sin compromises everything, not matter"._ That's wrong! Every particle system (matter) is subject to entropy, therefore disease, death and putrefaction are unavoidable consequences of the statistics of all particles. All life must by necessity accumulate errors till the organism dies. This is a fundamental quality of every particle system, stating otherwise is falsehood.
Yes before modern science it was possible to believe that everything would be fine without sin. But now we know there was millions of years of mass extinctions and death before humans evolved. So traditional Christian beliefs don't quite fit with modern science.
Carl Jung was nothing short of a mystic and a genius. Manly P. Hall as well.
Jung was definitely a gnostic.
The kingdom is within you.
I'm sure a lot of gnostics over the last 2000 years were every bit as self-centered and secretive as is claimed here. However, it seems that the rejection of gnosticism means that people need a church or cleric as an intermediary between themselves and the divine. One could claim there is something more democratic about a gnostic viewpoint, even though it has a danger of being all about an individual's ego. It's hard to view it as inherently secretive when gnostics wrote a bunch of gospels that survive to this day. They may claim to have a "special knowledge" but they are anxious to share it with you. Smearing gnostics with the world of conspiracy theories seems little different than associating corruption with ecclesiastical authority.
As a Gnostic, our whole thing is to enlighten, not to be the cool kids club with the "secret knowledge". Thats a gross smearing of our whole idea.
@@renegorman7333 ttly agree, i actively break down the illusion of ego, that said i'm not completely gnostic
I'm a Catholic, and sure. Gnosticism has an interesting concept and all, but at its core, it's nihilism at its finest.
@@renegorman7333 So if I could ask, what is the "secret knowledge" because I cant find it anywhere.
@@ludonymous526 no at it's core it is humility, acceptance, autodidactism, and regulation of excuses and limitations. After all; all organized religions go against their primary principles. You go to a house of excess every week to speak with someone or listen to someone tell you what the divine is and that you are being washed by their (divine now through the transitive property) hands, words, ect. Because a mean old red man makes you do bad things. There is no need for you to change! It's not even your fault! Just keep coming back to this house of excess and giving the healer money every week and they will continue to wash you clean. It sounds closer to a drug dealer than a spiritual life system...almost chilling.
Wow... I think I'm a Gnostic now
:)
Thank you Bishop Barron!!
Thank you, Teacher Bishop Barron - I have not enough hours in my day to catch up with all your talks, videos, suggested books and authors you cite, with the historic etiologies you have digested and reformed into these overflowing, informational teachings (which always include our Lord & God, by name - and of the utter works of our God, through so many of God's "other" teachers - You weave these vast teachings - possibly like a Godly Homer poet or a modern Catholic in whom Socrates, Plato and Aristotle (rolled into one Bishop) who really did his homework, along with the ones who touched your soul. You help us. We lack many teachers with your reach. You take Catholic history 101 to beyond the post doctoral level and you always include some of your pure joy, in these teachings.
Thank you, Teacher ~!
Very disappointed by the fact that matrix is not even mentioned.
him explaining why Gnosticism
appealed to the early masses is pure irony
We can not have other idols before God Himself. It is a Basic commandment...
Any religion that teaches that they are superior from others is wrong. Any religion that uses fear mongering, threats & punishment is WRONG. Any religion that forbids you from doing or learning something is WRONG. Any religion that uses black & white thinking, forbids you to question or think for yourself, & has an 'us against them' mentality is WRONG. I was not raised in a christian religion (my mom is catholic & im baptised but shes not that devout lol,) but i have been to MANY churches as a visitor, LDS, JW, Catholic, etc. & as a non christian i was always so shocked and dissapointed with how terribly anti-christian & awful they are! They act superior to the rest of the world like they are in some exclusive club... In best cases they look down on "regular" ppl & in worst cases they flat out refuse to speak or associate with anyone who isnt a member.
Once at a jehovahs witness church i heard a mother sitting behind me explaining to her 5 year old daughter why the other kids in her class who arent JW are evil & going to hell, & that if she is friends with them or talks to them she may go to hell too.
Just AWFUL, not to mention terrifying & incredibly damaging & traumatic for a child! So IGNORANT!
Bishop Barron thank you for your amazing videos!! I am from Glasgow Scotland and you should know you are very popular here. I was wondering if you could comment on your thoughts on the coronavirus and how to approach it spiritually?
I had the great pleasure of speaking in Scotland about a year and a half ago. I did indeed meet a number of fans! I suppose in regard to the coronavirus, I would combine nature and grace, that is, listen carefully to the public health officials and ask God to protect you.
Fantastic interview. Useful!
Good stuff - love the application
Enjoy learning from all that you share. I miss the old format. It was more welcoming. May you Bishop Barron; Word On Fire continue to spread and bring infinite souls to God's True Church.
"God's true church" that's literally what EVERY religion says about themselves. Your god is an evil demiurge
For the first 8 minutes I was waiting for something that made Gnosticism sound unreasonable...guess I will watch the rest now... but the Gospel of Thomas says "The Kingdom of God is already here, you just have to find into within yourself". Jesus was upset that people were interpreting the way to the Kingdom was in a distant heaven.
Heresey is merely defined by the strongest and most ruthless side.
A discussion on the immortality of the soul vs the resurrection of the dead would’ve an interesting topic. Although one might find some biblical support for the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the dead is much more consistent with the biblical record. Years ago Oscar Cullmann wrote about this topic. Anyone really interested in this topic should read his paper before making a decision on which position they take. My position is that the theory of the immortality of the soul discounts the importance of the of the resurrection of the dead. Which ever position you choose please know that it will make a profound difference in the way that you deal with death, your own or the death of others.
Tomato tohmatoe
Thank you Bishop Barron. I loved your explanation of the resurrection of the body as the continuity of the body with its unifying principle i.e. form of the body, which is me.
But your body is in a constant state of change. The cells and atoms are constantly renewing. You don’t have the same body you had 20 years ago.
@@jaredfairfieldbut they’re not talking about the soul, they’re talking about the body.
Your body is not a constant. (And there’s no evidence of a “soul” - but that’s another conversation)
Wouldn’t the concept of heaven and hell be a dualistic system?
not in this context
What are the major texts of gnosticism? And who are the major players?
@@jackdarby2168 nag hammadi library
@@Dimiblossom Thanks
I know I'm late lol, but I agree. If dualistic interpretations of reality were false objectively, then say, light and darkness, or standing and sitting, or anything for that matter would be considered to be false.
The question he was answering was why gnosticism seems to be a falsehood that endures, and his response was that dualistic ideas are more attractive and very easy to understand. (Which is true considering for example there are so many states between sitting and standing but we are able to easily dissolve them into opposites because we prefer dualistic views.)
Dualism isn't wrong on it's own. Some IDEAS are. Automatically follows that others are correct. Heaven and hell IS dualistic, doesn't have to be wrong.
Sorry for the long read. Have a nice day :)
ODDEST THING IS.... WITHOUT A BODY, THERE CAN BE NOOO SOUL NOR SPIRIT, PERIOD. 🌹☀️
That’s def not Catholic teaching.
I'm not sure if anybody else has pointed this out, but this gives a very interesting slant on CS Lewis's excellent paper, "The Inner Ring".
Peter Green Indeed it does just that. I had a similar thought.
One thing that always bugs me is how the Bishop brings up the Force in Star Wars as a dualistic concept. It's really not. As portrayed in the movies, the Dark Side isn't the bad half of some cosmic coin, it's a corruption of the natural order. That's why you never hear the Jedi say "the Light Side" once across all three trilogies but you hear them talk a lot about "balance."
The idea of the Jedi is that they recognize their own smallness before a benevolent higher power, while the Sith view themselves AS that higher power. The Dark Side isn't a separate but equal power to "a light side," it's the choice to embrace anger, greed, desire, etc. in other words, sin.
In contrast, the Jedi’s entire philosophy is that their is a greater power than any one person and to live in harmony with it is both moral and grants peace. I mean, sound familiar? There’s a reason why I love Star Wars as a devout Catholic.
Yess exactlyy. But for me, I kinda delineate between my faith and entertainment. A movie could be wrong or right, doesn't mean it becomes my faith hehe, meaning to say u don't have to justify why u like star wars and ur Catholic at all. You can enjoy it regardless :))
I can’t blame him for misunderstanding though due to some bad analysis of the world of Star Wars from previous critics and screwed up further by Disney.
The Dark Side is more like how evil works in Tolkien’s Legendarium, it corrupts what already exists, Vader and Sidious being primary examples as the path to the Dark Side had physically deformed them.
It's still a duality.
I think he uses the force as an analogy because the force is extremely vague, abstract, impersonal. It's analogous to modernist "spirituality without religion," suitable for secular humanists who can't stomach the supernatural/mythological or the liturgy they've deduced to be pointless performative ritual, but who are still seeking some vague thing to fill some vague hole in their psyche. Whether it's dualist or not is inconsequential, since we try to fill that hole with all manner of ideas, ranging from the atheistic to the pantheistic, from the mystical to the mundane.
There's nothing wrong with Star Wars, since it's fiction. There aren't people out there actually trying to be Jedis, since we all know that the force is a figment of George Lucas' imagination, however brilliant an imagination it may be. But there are plenty of people engaging in spiritual practices very similar to the Jedi religion, a result of 1) the rejection of miracles that began shortly before the Renaissance, picked up speed during the so-called Enlightenment, and has reached its fullest force today; and 2) the disdain for "organized religion" and its liturgies, and most importantly the central role it gives to discrimination.
By discrimination, I don't mean the bad word we use today to refer to unjust treatment of people, but simply distinguishing between things. The religion described in the Pentateuch is all about discriminating and dividing, both on God's part (dividing the heavens from the earth) and on the part of priests (dividing the pure from the profane, a serious responsibility backed up by the penalty of spontaneous combustion), and the Christian tradition inherited this because Christians believed that it is God's will. But today that comes across as unfair. Why should only the Levites be allowed to enter the Tabernacle? Why shouldn't women be allowed to be priests? Surely these distinctions only exist to serve the greedy, corrupt, jealous priests in Rome, as they must only have existed in ancient Israel to serve the hereditary priestly caste.
The backlash against this kind of religion has been overwhelming in western culture. It was the genesis of the protestant reformation, of course, but the backlash goes back even further than that and plays an exponentially increasing part in everything since then, and new age spirituality is just the most obvious emblem of that backlash. Scott Hahn has written a great book about this process, _The Decline and Fall of Sacred Scripture_ (on 1300-1900 AD but also covering some background in classical antiquity, e.g. Epicureanism). It's sort of a summary of 2 academic books he wrote previously, _Politicizing the Bible_ (on 1300-1700 AD) and _Modern Biblical Criticism as a Tool of Statecraft_ (on 1700-1900 AD).
I love Star Wars too, without any caveats or disclaimers. There's no need to say "I love Star Wars but the force... blah blah blah" because nobody is taking spiritual advice from a space opera film franchise. The force didn't create new age spirituality, rather, the force is based on new age spirituality. It's no coincidence that George Lucas has spoken at length about his disdain for organized religion, yet his admiration for traditional ethics and Greco-Roman myth as a guide for human life. He's a child of the American social revolution of the 60s.
So of course his worldview is gonna work its way into his goals and his writing, just as it did in his other films. And that's fine. I can love Aristotle and Plato without worrying about their false ideas of the supernatural rubbing off on me. The bad spiritual philosophy in Star Wars doesn't spoil the whole thing. It's not some kind of danger to society; it's just a reflection of a turd that's already been swirling around the drain in western culture for a long time.
"Luminous beings are we, Luke; not this crude matter." - Yoda
I know this doesn't address your point about the Force's supposed dualism but Yoda's line sounds a lot like Bishop Barron's description of gnosticism.
What I see and read on the History is that Catholics and Gnostics are both Christians. They both believe in Jesus but one of them has the habit of "burning" other people who doesn't agree with them. While the other has the habit of making 'Enlightened People.' We Catholics emphasizes Obedience. Gnostics emphasizes Freedom of Choice. These facts tells me something what we are.
Neither are Christian.
Gnosticism is not Christian and Christians were the most persecuted people.
Gnostic here. AMA
Very nice video...as always.. thank you
But esoteric (hidden) knowledge was part of Christianity from the beginning, as Jesus Himself proclaimed: "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted... Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand... For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it"
Matthew 13
This makes sense - it is appropriate for the leaders of the church to have a higher level of spiritual of understanding than the masses, and this is indeed the way in which just about every institution is structured. A college professor is (hopefully) better versed in the material than the students. A manager at a job has more details on the functioning of the business than an employee . Etc, etc. So why not the same in Christianity? The heavy hierarchical structure that formed in Catholicism certainly seems to lend weight to this view that there were different levels of spiritual understanding, but since by definition such things were kept secret it is impossible to know for sure. The fact that the Freemasons, who are undeniably esoteric, used to build the cathedrals adds even more weight to this view.
@Alex How do you explain that bible verse? Did you know that in the past most people didn't know how to read or write? Did you know that in the past most people didn't know how to do geometry? It was only recently that these things were taught to the public at large, albeit with all sacred significance stripped away. These things (and more!) were reserved only for initiates in the time of Jesus. Feel free to provide some evidence if you wish to claim otherwise.
@@theTavis01
Save your pearls for someone who will appreciate them. The internet is full of ignorant people. Just like the "scholar" in this video. Most people just glance and read some books here and there or watch a video and listen to some bullet points with basic information and claim to know what their talking about. Few delve and truly absorb the wisdom to truly understand.
@@big-boss-bear4461 ignorant in the age of information with all the information at your finger tips. that's simply a crime.
Please pray for me..for conversion and holiness and healing... thank you
We will pray for you. I also thankful to have found my way into the Catholic Church.
Mass Propers so thankful my wife got out of the Roman Catholic Church
Bishop Robert Barron and Word on Fire: Can you kindly further discuss Near Occasion of Sin or Occasion of Sin! Thank you.
God bless you all!
The soul resides inside the flesh and blood and its the person's job to keep it pure. I had an NDE and was shown how we should live to preserve purity. We all get judged and its our responsibility whether we remain in eternal peace and happiness or come back down to entire another life here.
That’s Gnosticism in a nutshell my friend.
I think gnosis means "rising above through knowledge" right?? It means being enlightened, jesus was an essene & also possibly (most likely) a son of light & a gnostic teacher himself.. During his "lost years" there is evidence that he travelled in & studied in Eypt, mid east & asia in order to study different philosophies, & when he comes back at age 30 he is very heavily influenced by bhuddism teachings of being kind and seeking light & knowledge.. Gnosticism is thought by some to share roots with or be influenced by budhism.. Also the church used to teach reincarnation & other gnostic teachings, but they started removing or changing them bc it gave common ppl too much autonomy over their lives - the whole point of christianity is to control every aspect of ppl's lives which is in direct opposition to the gnostics teachings that we are god. We are ALL light in human form or cosmic energy in the form of matter however you want to think of it. Our souls, the spark that gives us our energy personality & passion, are just drops of water from the ocean of cosmic energy. We are all god experiencing it's own creations and we are here to learn lessons, & unfortunately u will have to keep coming back until you finish your lessons.
The stench of the Catholic Church's sins have reached Heaven. That which is light [Catholic Church] will be shown as dark. That which is dark [Gnosticism] will be shown as light. The days of the Catholic Church killing My Children are over! MOUNTAIN [Catholic Church] MOVE AWAY IMMEDIATELY! ~ Lord of the Net.
Thank you Bishop Barron. May God
bless all at Word on Fire Show.🙏🙏🙏
The Glorified body - I have always adored The Transfiguration ...of Jesus. - and I look forward to my own glorified body and those of my loved ones.
Well observed. Gnosticism keeps finding new ways to bubble up. Someone pointed out that even something like French Existentialism is essentially Gnosticism with the top chopped off.
Well I think too it was a control thing. The false gnostic texts were likely written so that people could capitalize on Christianity appearing on the scene in the wake of Jesus' death. You have both the conspiracy element of people believing in knowledge is hidden and the others wanting control of a population.
Aww what makes it wrong because you say so?
@@mish375 'the false texts' How do you know they're false? They have just as much evidence going for them as the 'true' gospels do.
@@alt8791 Depends on what your standard for canonization is. The gnostics were written by just about anyone and often couldn't be verified. Where the real debate comes in is with the Apocryphal texts. But that's a separate issue.
@@mish375 I've done lots of research on the Nicene counsel, Constantine, and the orthodox at the time. Seems like the "canon" and the controls at that time decided what they wanted to place in the bible. To say gnostic text are false and heresy can be somewhat hypocritical. Just because a group of politicians and orthodox religious leaders put the bible together does not mean its the end all..say all. These scriptures have lots of insight to the spiritual. Pray the Holy spirit will teach you all things. btw Gnostics were around way before Christ.
I love this “confession” from a Catholic priest.
It’s enduring because it seems to keep proving itself more fulfilling and makes more sense than the European liturgy/ and ecclesiastical compromises since emperor Justinian’s time.
Lucifer is attractive as well...
@@davidsprouse151 of course!
A religion that has to point a finger at something it can’t explain away has to have SOME attribute that lets it get constant vindication!
I'll sum this video up for you if you don't want to watch: My beliefs are right and yours are wrong.
I WAS WAITING FOR SOMETHING SOLID ABOUT THE EXPLANATION OF RESURRECTION QUESTION BUT I WAS LEFT OUT NAKED AGAIN.
Try reading what's called "Pistis Sophia." Gnostics believe in the resurrection, but only because it shows that the god of the universe is more powerful than the god of the world (of material). (Notice how Jesus calls the devil the god of this world; though you must remember that the idea of the modern devil or Satan comes from Christians applying what Christ said back onto the Old Testament, so it was a new concept revealed by Christ and rationalized by more Jewish figures within what they knew). The resurrection is not the end of the story for Gnostics. Sorry, I hope that makes sense.
Thank you dear Bishop Barron for all you hard work, leadership and teaching. Christian Science, one of the most prevalent manifestations of Gnostic thought (mixed with Arian ideas) in contemporary USA, has damaged my family deeply. I would love to hear a thorough Catholic refutation of this very false teaching.
Freemasonry is by far the "most prevalent manifestation of Gnostic thought in contemporary USA" by a long shot. They teach that as you progress through their system of degrees and initiations you will gradually acquire Masonic "light." There is a Masonic temple in the center of just about every single city in this country, and the United States was a Freemasonic design and experiment from the very beginning. I'm sorry that Christian Science has damaged your family, but they are nowhere close to Freemasonry - in terms of membership numbers, in terms of societal influence, and in terms of heresy.
How about a refutation of Christian Science on the basis of “it’s totally bullshit, prayer can’t cure you (this is a proven fact, google “Templeton prayer study”) “
@@alt8791 Which one? At best the studies of that Institute were inconclusive not definitively true or false.
Liftboard Rider the clinical study that tested 1800 patients of heart bypass surgery and found that the group who was prayed for and knew it showed a noticeable increase in post surgical heart arrhythmias compared to those who were prayed for and didn’t know it and control, who both showed results that matched the average for that procedure.
Liftboard Rider specifically, this one: www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-prayer-prescription/
I know it's unrelated but with the death of Max Von Sydow, I was wondering your thoughts on The Greatest Story Ever Told, The Seventh Seal, Ingmar Bergman and his thoughts on faith? (If you've seen them).
I think he described himself as an agnostic.
Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in there at:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW THERE BE, that find it.
The Empire Never Ended
LOVEEE this!! Thank you for all you do!
And I love you! Keep up the good work
Beware the scribes and Pharisees.
Bishop Baron has the fortune and misfortune of either uttering the truth in the most revealing way and then makes a statement that is against church teaching. God protect him from error.
Sethian Gnosticism is so compelling. Saklas is irredeemable.
Gnosticism wasn't a secret or exclusive Christianity. Christian and gnostic scriptures very much intertwine.
Yup👍
I've heard people claim authentic Christian mysticism as esoteric and occult. The truth is that it's like a mine or a cave, one has to seek it out. Just because it isn't posted on the walls of the church or can only be found in certain books doesn't make it any less freely available.
It's less about availability and more about truth. Just because u found something in a mine doesn't mean it's honest or true.
When can ppl stop believing everything they are told and think for themselves?
Ohhhh Ok!!! now I understand it! Thank you!!
Gnosticism makes so much sense. It IS consistent! The New Testament + the Apocrypha is the true word of God. Thanks for uploading this video.
I don't know how Orthodox Christians reconcile the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh), murderer, killed children, plagues...etc. Just doesn't make sense compared to Christ and what He preached.
Jesus came in the flesh.
@@binary because when God does something, there is a reason for it.
Pharaohs refused to let His people go, but he also had to crush any idea that there was any other God other then Him, each plague was an attack against pharaoh and the egyptian Gods.
God wiped out early humanity because it was entirely corrupt and evil.
God holds divine authority over creation. If he does something, there is a reason for it.
Gnostcismo esta muy presente en las corrientes de new age, con mucha influencia de taoismo
O Jesus and Mary, teach us: Faith, Hope and Love. Ps 50:1, Lk 23:11
St Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
😇 St Martha please pray with us
pray to Mary much?
Thank you!!!!!!!
Dogmas will never destroy the cosmic truths! Gnosticism is misunderstood, and the religious leaders fear for the world to know!
I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with you...
BUT I hate blanket terms that become useless by overuse because they’re then used to mask ignorance by people who want to sound smarter about things they really know know nothing about.
dogma is right there with “racist” “woke” “fascist” “fundamentalist”
I mean use it when you’re talking about dogma but to blanket a concept as dogma -right or wrong- essentially comes off as a dismissive; it’s essentially putting on airs.
@@fishhuntadventure All of those "blanket terms" you mentioned actually have definitions and meaning to them. Dogma is one of the many problems that religions face. Instead of realizing its own holy essence of what a religious process actually is a dogmatic religion gets lost by placing the holy on the literal symbol and not the essence of a symbol.
Someone burn this witch!! JK JK
Fishhuntadventure good advice, lots of people get pretentious, but fewer get caught!
That priest is a liar !
While reading on gnosticism i thought
"This is just Kabbalisicm through a christian lens essentially. I understand why some could have an affront to it but I can't perceive why it was a heresy."
Then you get to the part about the old testament god was basically the devil, how its the truest christianity and that salvation wasnt through atonement but through enlightenment and I figured out why.
find the Holy Spirit truly and you will see the truth. there is truth in all religions. once the Spirit has begun its work within you then you will see which parts are of the Father. know there are two spirits at play in this world. one would keep you begging for truth. they both work through the same lips.
Bingo. I'm new to gnosticism but it really resonates with my organic faith. God doesn't have a name or need one; any 'name' given to God by a group of people claiming that God gave it to them is inspired by this devil figure, Saklas the fool. Every fundamentalist or cultlike religion is led astray by this fool. It wants to divide and start wars, to keep mankind fixated on the physical world. I noticed that fundamentalist Christianity and the religious right are more like an ancient fertility cult than an organized religion, as anti-gay and pro-heterosexual, pro having tons of kids as they are. Then I learned about gnosticism and realized this is no coincidence. The same entity that inspired said fertility cults and war cults in the ancient world has captivated modern religions, especially ones that idolize a particular physical realm object or text like the Bible instead of an omnipotent God. I should be very proud that I discovered this at such a young age through very little prompting; ironically it was my religion teacher in Catholic school admiring nature and the breeze that struck a chord with me that later, on my own, made me realize that God is panentheistic and present in nature perhaps most strongly. None of the Catholic theology or sacraments or mass had done anything for me at a younger age; I didn't even really believe in God, at least not on any personal or significant level.
@Loyd Suvaris read the nag hammadi and other gnostic scriptures and you will find out. it is not that God is the devil. but the story takes some turns. it's good reading when you have time and an open mind.
@Loyd Suvaris i have personally been able to adopt the new testament, parts of the old and the gnostic scriptures as well because i can see how they all fit together. someone else may say otherwise. but salvation is through righteousness. to know that you are perfection spoiled by evil and must connect again with your perfection. it is with the Holy Spirit that all things are revealed. anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar. but the old testament "god" was sometimes a god of jealousy and hatefulness it seemed. Jesus supposedly said that the old testament was perfect. he could not have said that and then changed the things he did. the true God is all that is good. there is nothing bad in Him at all. the one that created matter was an evil one that wanted to enslave us, beings of light, here on this earth. but we are as the angels. we have that spark of light. after reading gnostic texts you will be able to see in biblical texts where it hints at all of the texts pointing towards truth. it's as if someone rewrote the books of the new testament but missed some key points that show gnosticism is true. so while some things in the bible may have been changed other things are still truth. i believe God of all will not allow those important truths to be overwritten. i believe we are saved through our faith and through baptism washed clean and are then able to get the Holy Ghost who resides with the Father and will reveal all to you as well. go to a church that teaches baptism of water AND fire. like a pentecostal church. once you see you cannot unsee. get your eyes opened. it is much easier to accept truth shown in this way then to hear of it second hand. you will KNOW truth truly.
@Loyd Suvaris i also want to say it is not the church that teaches those things. it is the Spirit that will show you.
It's so interesting that Star Wars and Doctor Strange were mentioned as 'gnostic' films, but NOT The Matrix, which I would say is the DEFINITIVE piece of gnostic fiction of ALL TIME. It has everything, from an evil creator to a higher realm, even a gnostic messiah who teaches those with potential how to escape!
Just food for thought.
If "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" that bears a striking resemblance to how Bishop Barron first described Gnosticism. "The belief that the human soul is imprisoned in the body..." (The Gnostic inference being one should seek to free ones imprisoned soul and spirit from the prison of the body.
Gnostics sound like they've taken to heart the phrase "The spirit is opposed to the flesh" and realize "the works of the flesh profit nothing" and are doing what they can to become "absent from the body and present with the Lord."
That is quite spot on. In Gnosticism, it is believed that the flesh is under the influence of the archons. Now the archons themselves manifest in our minds as psychological archetypes. The word archetype comes from the words Archein (meaning "to rule" or "to begin" and typos (type). These psychological archetypes manifest as egos in the mind. When I use the term ego here, I am referring to selfish egotistical desires such as greed, lust, envy, pride, wrath, etc... (works of the flesh). The idea in gnosticism is that by eliminating these egos (or killing them if you will), this is how one can become "born again" in spirit. This is also how gnostic's believe one person can enter in the kingdom of heaven, as the bible does say that idolators, adulterers, fornicators, those who practice homosexuality, etc... will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Gnostics also believe that everyone human being has divinity in them from god (consciousness) that has been clouded by the ego. Most people are unaware of this divine nature they have within themselves, partly because most people live their lives asleep, unconscious. It is only by consistently practicing to eliminate your egos that one can re-unite with this divinity, and by doing so, one can be awake, consciousness, and connect with their inner light. The elimination of ego is done through constant meditation, reflection of behaviors, and prayer, however the most important key to eliminating egos is to be present, to be here and now. By connecting with their inner light, they are also connecting with God, because it is from God that this inner light is derived from. This is a spiritual process that must happen on the individual level. No one can do this for you, only you. This is also not something that one can simply just "believe in," but rather it is path that requires constant work and constant effort to experience on a personal level. Knowledge gained from experience over belief. This is Gnosis.
I've only very briefly talked about what gnosticism today involves, but in reality, it is incredibly deep and rich knowledge that spans not just Christianity, but also the jewish Kabbalah, Bhagavad Gita, and more. I generally agree on a lot of the topics that Bishop Robert Barron speaks of, but on the topic of gnosticism, he misses the mark.
@@BornR3STLESS
Your sharing of the archons seems a little like "powers and principalities" in Christian terms (neither these nor archons are classified as "flesh and blood.") They are not egoic nor subject to human will.
Jordan Peterson made mention of this to an extent. Referencing Freud in a critique of free will, he said we have a lot of psychology operating semi-autonomously or even independent of our own will, probably alluding to Jungian archetypes and maybe close to Jesus' disciple lamenting "that which I will not, I do, and that which I will I do not" (law of sin as to be at war within oneself and as akin to "the spirit is opposed to the flesh.)
Archetypes as impersonal, overarching psychical phenomena and constellations of stable patterns of behavior superordinate to individual ego.
Neither archetypes nor powers and principalities are subject to human will or ego and operate independent of them. More accurately, these phenomena "rule over" as you said our own will and ego.
These ideas seem also to align with Greek mythology to the extent that Morpheus, God of sleep would be roughly akin to an archetype in Jungian thought. A stable, relatively unchanging and impersonal force of reality that cannot be challenged or dispensed with.
In Morpheus' case, he represents the eternal need of sleep (for creatures.) The immutable, archetypal, archonic and unconquerable neccesity of sleep. This is why I admire the Greek mythological style of world view and thought.
To classify Morpheus as a god is logically precise and consistent and aligns with facts of reality. He represents the eternal and unconquerable reality of sleep that all creatures must obey. Sleep is a natural law that cannot be disobeyed. To defy would bring death. Sounds like an excellent description of a god. This style of thinking of these psychical realities are excellent explanatory principles aligned with accurate observation of eternal realities in human life.
Bishop Baron, please can you do a video on the Theology of Fr. Richard Rohr, an ex Franciscan priest (I think) who distorts Franciscan spirituality and blends it to Joachim of Flore's age of the spirit. Ik sure it's a charming theology for the new age spirituality and the nones.
Can we get your response to his theology? That will help the Nones a lot. Thanks and God bless you.
John Chidiebube Okpara bump 👍
Fr. Rohr is still a Franciscan priest in good standing with the Catholic Church. It is certainly true that his work with the Center for Action and Contemplation (CAC) is interreligious/ecumenical and his teaching attract many “nones”, Fr. Rohr has emphatically preached against Gnosticism and the New Age movement. Much of his fundamental theology is drawn from Franciscans like Duns Scotus and Bonaventure (rather than Thomas Aquinas, Bishop Barron’s favorite theologian).
Rohr also heavily emphasizes the huge body of mystical literature in Catholicism to converse with the mystical schools in the other major religion: Zen in Buddhism, Vedanta and Bakhti in Hinduism, Sufism in Islam. These schools of thought move into non-dual contemplation which are decidedly ANTI-Gnostic. While one can accuse Richard Rohr of writing perhaps a little carelessly to a popular audience, his teaching still fall within Catholic orthodoxy. That said, he does have a greater appeal to those who are in the progressive and ecumenical left-wing of the Church.
@@andrewheath1393 I guess you do not understand Catholic theology in relation to some of the things that Fr. Rohr preaches. Rohr preaches that there is no hell without any attempt to give Catholic teaching on hell as a separation from God. He preaches against organize religion and the church. He is more in line with Opera Winfrey type of new age spirituality. His theology is in no way near to being that of Don Scotus, Aquinas and others you mentioned. Rohr centers on Saint Francis's spirituality, but in a very distorted way and blends it with Joachim of Flore who was anti church and sacraments. Rohr preaches non sacramental, priestly and even organized religion. Rohr's center for contemplation has no sacramental dimension rather it is more of Buddhism only that it has a personal creator God.
In his interview with Opera Winfrey, he denied originals sin. And he accused the church or not seeing the goodness God testified about what he created. Now, observe that he failed to understand Christian teaching on original sin as not coming from creation but from the disobedience by our first parents who wanted to become gods without God.
Lastly, Rohr thinks that the Church doesn't preach the universal Christ when in fact it is in our creed that the son is co-eternal and consubstantial with the father which means he is there eternally and didn't begin the exist in the incarnation. He is the Word made flesh. Rohr ignored to state that in his book The Universal Christ. Even though it was a great book, but he made a claim that Christianity is not the only path to salvation. Again he ignored the church's teachings and Jesus's words that he is the only way to the father. What Rohr did was to claim that since Christ is the wisdom of the father therefore every religion has that universal Christ and is a way to salvation and not only Christianity. Not only is that logically incorrect because it doesn't note the reality of false beliefs, and also the fact that most religions don't even believe in a personal transcendent God, but he mb makes wrong of Christian evangelization. Also, he ignores the Christian understanding of salvation for non Christians as written in the scripture that they who have not heard about Christ and came to believe in him can be saved by grace and by their good morals.
Fr. Rohr is a universalist very much like David Bentley Hart. He does not deny hell but promotes a theology that (mostly) rejects the idea of ETERNAL hell. Metaphysically speaking one cannot ever really be “separated” from God. If God is the very ground of being, the one who holds you in existence, then to be removed from God would mean that you would cease to exist.
It is important to remember that the Center for Action and Contemplation is not a Catholic institution. The goal of CAC is to expose people of all faith backgrounds to contemplative practice. I have worked closely with people who have taught with the CAC and it is fascinating to see how many people come to revere Jesus, the Bible, and the perennial Christian tradition through Richard’s teaching. That said, the goal of the CAC is not conversion to the RCC.
When it comes to Original Sin it is important to recognize what Rohr actually affirms. He is fond of saying that good Christian theology must begin with “original blessing” (see Genesis 1: “and God saw it and said it was good”). I don’t know of a better way to argue against Gnosticism, and especially and Old-Testament demiurge, than to affirm the goodness of creation and humanity right from the start. To begin with sinful nature is simply bad anthropology. The idea of inherited guilt or inherited original sin is logically impossible anyway, so Rohr feels it is dangerous to emphasize original sin over original blessing.
Finally, I’m not certain about your last paragraph. We believe as Catholics that we have the fullness of truth and the privileged path of salvation. That doesn’t negate the truth of other religions. Rohr’s point is that if something is true universally it is true regardless of whichever tradition holds to it. I sense a certain amount of fear, bordering on frustration, in the way you continue to talk about salvation. What do you mean by salvation? What do you need saving from? What makes you uncomfortable with the idea of salvation apart from the organized church? It’s vital to remember that no-one comes to the Father except through Christ; the one though whom ALL CREATION has come into existence. (John 1). Whatever exists can only come back to the Father through Christ (pre-existent before Jesus of Nazareth). There is no other way because there is nothing else!
(David Bentley Hart-“Can many religions be true?” Here is a devout Eastern Orthodox theologian who takes a very similar approach to the perennial philosophy)
m.ruclips.net/video/zIZ_TrtKnj8/видео.html
@@andrewheath1393 Rohr absolutely denies hell. He isn't just trying to present a cute theology that is appealing but he denies it and makes claim to annihilation of soul other than hell. He also denies original sin. Watch the debate. He didn't argue for a beginning with original blessing. That is obviously Catholic teaching that every one even in grade school knows. But he went against that.
The church doesn't teaching no salvation outside the church. The church teaches also salvation by grace for those outside the church. But Rohr teaches an ontology or universal truth of salvation in every religions. That would Include my african traditional pantheism.