Track battle: 2020 Ford Focus ST vs Honda Civic Type R | Autocar
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2019
- The Honda Civic Type R is our reigning hot hatch king for under £30,000. But now, Ford is back with an all-new Focus ST to take the fight to Honda. It picks up where the last Focus RS left off, with the 2.3-litre turbocharged engine sending 276bhp through the front wheels. Is that going to be enough to defeat the 316bhp Civic?
Join Matt Prior and Mauro Calo as they take the two hottest hatches of the moment to Llandow circuit in Wales to find out which is fastest and, crucially, which is more fun. Subscribe now: smarturl.it/autocar
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I wish this Focus would of came to the US, still love my 2017 ST it’s fun as hell to drive everyday, awesome daily
Looks clean, too. ST is a great choice.
The one thing I really love about the Focus ST is its lift-throttle-oversteer in fast corners....basically the car rotates like a rear wheel drive car and that is awesome and way better than pushing/understeer in the corner!!!! The 2013+ cars did it too and the stock rubber that came on them was decent too but I would have loved to drive one that had a fresh set of TOYO R888's on it.
One thing I hated was the Recaro seat option. I'm 6' 235 and it was like being in a coffin.....the stock non-Recaro seats were great. The Recaros in the Mustang were much wider than the Focus ST which never made sense to me
its a shame for you guys in the US. ford is an american company but honestly the past 30 or so years you guys have really missed out on fast fords. in the UK we have had so many over the years. back in the day if you owned any ford with a "cosworth" badge on the back you where a king 😎😂. nowadays they are worth an absolute fortune. tge mk2 focus st and rs are my favourite. 5cyl engines engine notes 🙌. you guys missed out on those too
Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
3:23 The fuel cover flips open upon cornering..
I know right 😂
you can see that it wasnt fastened.
It's an air brake!!
Car screams: IM HUNGRY!
I wonder if this is a common problem. I know a Type-R owner that has to constantly close the door because it just opens automatically all the time.
either way the ST put up a hell of a fight
Spot on review. You guys are getting there:)
Doesn’t surprise me that it’s so close, Ford have nailed it with this car, reviewed both of these on our channel and agree with all your comments about both. Great vid guys 👌😎
Does not happen much for me these days, that I enjoy a car review so much that I actually tune in on a normal x1 speed and sit tight beginning to end.. well done guys and thank you!
This duo is really entertaining. Keep going !
Great review, as I'm considering both of these cars. Whoever flies your drone does a great job. Good videography all round, in fact.
Very close .... type r has got rave reviews everywhere..... type r = RS not the St so st has come a long way 👍🏼
Is it? RS is four wheel drive which makes a bit of a difference compared to Type R. More power too. Still, I agree with your conclusion.
@@jannowak8951 The Type R is in the same performance bracket as cars like the Focus RS, STI, Golf R, etc. All while being FWD.
They cost the same money so ST vs Type R. Honda doesnt have a competitor to RS.
If you watch the video closely, the driver missed a shift on the type R, just before the finish line. So I would take these lap times with a huge grain of salt.
@@tommy4862 only thing I get out of this is that the ST is the better buy vs the RS.
Love them both great vid guys. ..
Enjoying this test format guys.
Tires could potentially play a big part in those lap times.
tyres also play a part too :)
It does, and probably downforce for the Type-R as well
.44 seconds slower for a car you can drive all day everday is impressive. Also the Sound in the ST is much better and how it should be in a hothatch 💪🏼
The engine sound in the Ford is partly synthetic though. The Type-R sounds great in real life. Also, the Type-R would be perfectly fine as a daily.
Comparing Focus to Honda.
Possible only in UK and 'Murica.
@Ken Healy yea hopefully, i bought one 😅
Hopefully they used right headgasket this time.
@@jareknowak8712 You can easily drive the Type R "all day everyday." LOTS of people comfortably and happily daily drive it.
.44 is a lot closer than I thought it would be, but it's only a 47 second lap. I think a lap around the Nurburgring would be seconds difference.
Another excellent review from these two. Insight balanced with emotion, and eminent clarity. The best.
Love these cars and hope they will exist well into the next few decades.
While it's yet another entertaining video from Autocar, what does half a second matter to the vast majority of buyers? They're both relatively quick cars. Ok, great. The question I'd ask myself is this: which one is more engaging and enjoyable to drive? (Also think brand loyalty is a major decision factor here.)
Set aside even Brand loyalty, the Civic is screaming I am fast, and the ST is a nearly a sleeper for the untrained eye. So if Track days are not really your thing and you are not the only one to decide on which car to buy properly the ST will be the choice - while if you are into track days and you do not care how other people might look at you in your car, then the Civic is the one to have. But personally I like them both, but I find the new Focus design not so engaging - it is a more mature and practical design with a global DNA fitting more markets, while the Civic still is the stand out from the crowd hot hatch no matter where you will drive it. I would certainly have more considerations between the last generations where the Focus had a much more distinctive look. But perhaps all this will change with a Focus RS version.
Love my mk3 focus rs but these new st’s look quick, excited to see the rs
More like which one is more reliable.
@William Also reliability has a major part to play. One back in the day Stood for Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD) apparently and the other well Ive got the EP3 civic Type R from 2005 150k miles on the clock rev to near 9k.
The track is very short with slower corners - you can bet the difference on a full length track will be amplified to a couple of seconds
I have a 2014 Focus ST and I'm still in love with it. I'm still in shock about why Ford stopped selling the Focus STs in the US. It is a great car.
way more of a market for it in europe
@@sassythesasquatch8006 I can attest to that. I used to sell for Ford. People would come in to test drive an ST, but needed an automatic 🤦🤦
@@TravelWBrennanMegan yup wayyyy different culture out there when it comes to driving
Brennan Perry g
Charlie Cobra Me too, I have a 14 Fiesta ST and love, I was going to get the new one but Ford pulled the plug, big mistake. ST’s rule.
Mega bro, MEGA!
That time difference is very small, the new ST is quite impressive.
No, it is not small! Half of a second on a 47 seconds lap it is huge! Go for 10 laps and you live the Focus behind for 6 seconds. And this is a very small and narrow trak, the Honda didn't had the chance to use all the power and speed it is capable of.
@@lungulet I do get your point, however I do think the civic type R is a lot more of a track focused car than the ST, also the civic is more powerful, I guess most people who would buy these car's will never push them to these limits on track, for that reason I think hands down the Focus will be the easier Car to live with daily for year's to come. However I do love the civics track ability, just not to keen on the aggressive styling. Cheers.
@@lunguletthe brand new Focus RS will tell you a story
Lungu Gabriel it’s the ST though, the Honda should be MUCH faster, it’s not even Fords fastest hatch. That’s the RS which will clearly be faster than the Honda!
@@lungulet come on dude, what's the deal with using 10 laps to exaggerate your point? The result is the same.
Half a second difference on a 47 second lap is really not bad for a car with 40 less horsepower and which isn't built to be a track car. The ST did very well.
1st car I had was Honda Si 4thg but my ST is life .
The ST is the winner for me, its not out there to beat the typer r that's what the rs is for. Let's be honest it was down on power and still kept up. Yes tyres make a difference but they were both on good sets of tyres.
well said
Kept up? Run 20 laps of this circuit and see how well it's keeping up. Would be almost half a lap by that point. I imagine the type R wouldn't misshift going onto the straight every lap like it did this one, so it'd only get worse for the ST
The Civic Type R FK8 is £450 cheaper than the ST
@@bat33.12 yes but imagine having to drive around trying ur best to avoid meeting a ST on the road let alone the RS when ur in a Type R, even tho the "Type R" is supposed to be the top spec of the Honda Civic's it is a bit embarrassing knowing you can just keep up with a Focus ST - which is 2nd best to the RS
@@jmarston1043 i was inside a Focus RS and could not wait for the ride to finally end , my whole body was hurting , its not always about top speed but also on total car performance and the type r is a beauty to ride with .. if you sit inside one you will understand the difference ... also if i am not wrong the RS is much more expensive than the Type r ?
Those lap times are closer than I thought they'd be
Quick question and apologies if I missed it but did you have the focus st in race mode for this comparison?
I knew for sure the Type R would be quicker but am quite surprised how fast the new ST is comparably, And they went up to the 2.3 from the 2 liter!?
@Dr Beechas for real though, you probably don't want much more than 300HP on a FWD car. That 2.3 block in stock form is good for 400-420HP, which is more than enough.
You have to give it to Ford chassis engineers...The Focus is about 40bhp down on the Honda yet it very nearly kept up! No way could it do that if the chassis, suspension and brakes weren't on point. The price though..... For £26/27k it would be the obvious class leader but £32k is a BIG jump over the old ST. In fact thats the same price as the old RS!!
Add in the performance pack and that takes the ST to £33,000
Actual price is lower, that's just Ford's bullshit list prices. I think everyone I've seen who's bought one has had it for around 30k with pretty much every option.
@@bat33.12 That is an interesting point.. The ST was suppose to be an affordable hot hatch.. At that price, it isn't..
The Focus ST it's one of the best cars there is for the budget price...
not anymore
@@8SpeedNate who is first ?
That's a close time for the positions those cars hold in the market place
Lost 0.5sec or more coming out the final corner with that miss-shift and banging on the limiter lol
On their video: Track battle: 2019 VW Golf GTI TCR vs Honda Civic Type R, he makes 46.60sec so there you go
2:09 fuel cap is open 😂
I'd love to see the mk2 rs vs the mk4 st
Type R has grown on me - it looks dramatic rather than ugly
I have an 2012 Fiesta zetec 1.4 petrol, just a basic car but I absolutely felt in love with it. never owned an Ford, and I was sceptical about purchasing it.. but I took me completely for the price/quality.. sound isolation, comfort and good speeds for a little engine as 1.4. it kicks very nice when pressed and responds in time when needed. I paid about 4000£ with 45k miles but was totally worth it. Honda is a dream car for me as well, but maybe one day who knows 👍
Ive got the new ford focus st line x wish i had this instead though
Is michel better than continental contact 6, I didn't understend what you speek.
The chassis in my dc2 was awesome😁
Half a second over such a short lap is good, but that miss shift cost time, not sure why he couldn’t just re do the lap
No kidding. It was a pretty substantial flub-up. I think it would have reflected greatly in the time.
Gumpy 49 cause he owns the ST
Artificially creating competition 😂
They probably did a few laps a piece and chose the faster of the laps between both cars.
@@rubbish6017 and didn't show the footage from that lap? Seems odd if you're going to record your hot laps.
Half a second lost easy with the miss shift in the type r lol
The st has 30ps less and as seen more fun the nurburgring isn't just down the road ,wishing was lol
I am curious what tires they put on this car. All I could find was that they're Michelins.
Other then that, I wish it came to the US as I would've waited for this with the performance pack instead of getting a Veloster N w/ performance pack. This car just looks more normal and looks like it drive more mental than the Veloster N. Plus, to beat a Type-R that comes stock with the Continental SportContact6 on a small go-kart type track, that's quite good. The N would need a much better tire than the PZ4s that comes stock with it if it wants to have a chance to beat a Type-R on a similar track.
Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
By the sounds of it, you guys had the ST it in normal mode...I could not hear the pops and crackles you get from the ST in sport or race mode.
8:00 that tripod xD
ST is the first sport car/hatch that Ive not modified, its perfect.
I'd like one of each . . .
I can't tolerate the looks of the Type-R although I admire what it can do. The ST is less than half a second slower, and probably the better road car - I'd take the Focus
The type r is a brilliant road car with the suspension settings, so it’s better then the focus everywhere, what do you expect it’s only a ford...
Amen to that @quiller95
@@Shane-zx4ps and the Honda is only a Honda!
But in my opinion, I have mixed thoughts on the Type-R. It does well, but the rear end looks like it got smushed by Godzilla.
@bapster man clearly a Honda fanboy. Did you actually watch the video? The verdict was nowhere near as clear cut as you suggest. One chose the Honda, one the Ford. And Ford Performance are on a real roll at the moment. The Fiesta ST is widely recognised as the best in its class and the Focus ST also getting v good reviews. Type R clearly a great driver's car...if you can get over the looks
Half a second in a 47 secs lap is big difference.
Negligible if you just wanna drive on the roads though
Cact I I agree and then none of these cars really make any sense
@@kpsig exactly... would rather have something with awd or rwd if i wanted fun / speed, not a fwd car made for tracks :P golf r and bmw m140i / audi rs3 if it was a hatch but then again golf r is the only one that makes sense and where im from the kia stinger gt is the same price soooooo
I love both of these cars.
Well I'm happy the ST lives on over seas but it looks too egg like in shape it looks really bad but looks good Performance wise, the type R and ST need to trade some body characteristics to balance them out lol
Megane Rs trophy R please 🙏
That’s close 😱
The US built Honda Civic 3 door looks way better. I don't understand why they didn't make that into a Type R.
Gary Lee because nobody buys coupes they’ll sell 5 of them a year
The Civic Coupe is Made exclusively at HCM1, in Alliston, ON, Canada, barely 4km from where I'm sitting. (Though I drive an FK7 made in Swindon UK. Go figure...)
If people bought them, they would make them. If the type r was a 2 door, I wouldn’t of bought one. I have kids and dogs.
@@gillesthibault429 I live about 4km from the Swindon plant and used to work there. I still prefer a 3 door hatchback, that's why I drive a 3 door Golf R
@@Inverted8 I understand now. In North America, there has not been a 3-door Hatch since 2000 (except for the 2001/2 Si/SiR - that was made in UK). Nor was one made in North America since (only Coupe and Sedan).
So sad we here in the U.S. will never get this car. I would trade my 2018 Focus ST in for one today. You could tune this one back up to RS power and have even more fun for a low price of $500.
Yes!! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Shouldn't be close that close, give both cars to the same professional driver and watch the Type R win by a lot more ..
Ive got a feeling the lap time is more due to how fast this guy dares to drive rather than how fast car is. Which is why its so similar. If you put my granma in a ferrari or fiat 500 with 1.1 engine, she'd lap it the same. Except constantly driving in high rpm as if that constitutes fast lap time by itself, the guy driving is very leisurely around the track.
Not in the wet. Tyres is the problem, not the driver.
C'mon we talking about a brand new car here with European engineering
@@njabulogodfrey2039 It's a Renault, if you lived in EU you'd know what that means alone.
Dr3v0 unfortunately I haven't so balance me real quick
Did anyone notice all the head shaking in the Ford vs. The civic?
Civic type r vs Focus rs who is the winner?
Where’s that bloody legend Sutcliffe
D 13 saw him at EVO recently.
Wow shows that the focus st has come along way but tbh you can have as much fun if not more in a fiesta st which i do for near as £10000 less
Type r always rocks
I can’t wait to see a next gen Focus RS to go up against the Civic Type R!
You're going to be disappointed I'm afraid. Ford has announced that there will be no next-generation Focus RS :( And therefore, probably not another RS ever again, unfortunately
Did anyone else notice the fuel cap open when the Type R went round the corner at 03.22
I'm VERY impressed by the ST here. Nice to know there is a non-horrible looking alternative.
Surely we’ll see a no-lift-shift fitted to the next gen of these manual hot hatches
Paddy Downey Which is crazy because the Cobalt SS had a no-lift shift function like ten years ago. Not saying that made it a great car or anything, but it was ahead of its time in that respect.
I'm none the wiser... is the ST front wheel drive?
Yes
Vtec has nothing to do with turbo lag, it's tuned to maintain power top end all the way to redline
Any video st vs i30n?
Focus ,I like both but the Focus for a daliy :)
Its like comparing the impreza to the evo you pick the impreza to drive to the tack and the evo for the track
Where was the st’s pops and bangs 💥?
My st mk4 does it all the time 🎉
I wish the Focus ST was available in the USA! My 2016 ST3 is a blast but I would trade up for the new 2.3 liter ST!
Yes, I agree!! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
What abouth BMW 1 series???
Shouldn’t they be comparing the civic Si vs the focus st? And the type r vs the rs?
Perfect🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Lol the fuel cover 🤣🤣🤣
# CrazyWithGau
Can’t believe he didn’t shut it properly 😂
As good as this was do both cars come with cup holders ? You need to start looking at the important stuff 👍😂
We don’t get the focus in the US which is a shame. I’d kill for an ST wagon as my daily. And here in Detroit it would likely be much , MUCH less than the Type R which the dealerships here really gouge on.
I agree! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Even if the price was similar to the Type R, I'd still choose the Focus ST based on looks, sound, and driving experience alone, not to mention the Type R's gearbox grind issues. I can't stand the styling of the Type R honestly
Fun WINS
The new Type R grips! There is fuel cover to tell you.
FoMoCo, please import these to North America. What a fun car!
I completely agree! Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
If you aren't a speed freak but enjoyed a quick rd car the focus. I'm not that, so the CTR please
New Mountune ST will be interesting
MP330 is out and wow..
Arif Azar must check it out thanks
Compare AT to MT focus st.
please make a track battle between TypeR and A35
I can’t wait until the 2021 Subaru WRX & STI come out to compete with these cars🤘😎
Then the 11G Civic Type R comes barely a few months later... something to follow...
Nice to see Ray Winstone has a day job.
You are living the life, aren't you?
That focus is a God on the corners
Pointless for me since they don’t sell focuses in USA anymore 😔
But they do sell the ecoboost gt that thing looks way better
woody555kl I’m one of the rare Americans that prefer a hot hatch. I don’t care for the styling of the new mustangs
Yep, that sucks. So when my ST wears out I'll have to get the Type R.
Justin Wagner your lucky they don’t sell them cause fords are crap
Fellow Americans: Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
Miss shift in the type r...
Anybody get the impression that guy thinks the Type-R is a "serious bit of kit"?! Couldn't tell you why.
Also... MEGA BRRRRRRUVVV!!
(After viewing some more vids from this otherwise great channel the above covers 75% of his reviews about any car.)
So quick fuel filler cap went flying!
Mr "Mega" over here. lol
3:20 gas cap flys open lol. I love Honda's but that's hilarious.
Lol the gas cap doesn't just fly open. It was never closed properly to begin with and as a result, opened on its own.
@@djs18 I bet, still hilarious tho
11:51 Look how the speedometer stays at 86 on the civic type r. They did this on purpose to make the Ford seem better than it is. Otherwise why are they using the false lap time???
He missed the shift, you can see him fumbling with the stick and the redline shift lights flashing, still only a few tenths on the lap which is surprising for the lesser focus (opposed to RS)
@@markacevedo441 My point is they still used THAT lap time. It should be invalid.
Omg who cares? Stop being a 12 year old civic fan boy and realize the lap time wasn’t even the most important part of the video
It would have been nice if they turned over the drivers on the 2 cars , back to back so we would know there opinions.
Shouldn’t you be testing it against the Focus RS
That’s me sorted then mk4 foci rs please
As long as they dont use that cylinder block in the next one.
CTR generates so much G force it opened up its gas door lol anyone catch that? lol
Yeah I saw that too but what sprang into my mind was maybe the fuel flap was poorly engineered for a Japanese 🤣🤣
This guy is always on the shiken
so crazy how ford is an American company yet other countries get their best iterations of cars.......the only car we get now is the mustang
jamaicanlovrboy Ford isn’t American company now it’s a global Company
I still can't believe their crazy decision to cancel this great generation of Focus and Fiesta hatchbacks in the U.S. It's a BAD move and it makes me sad
Fellow Americans: Let's all do our part: call or write Ford U.S. Customer Relationship Center and tell them what their American customers want. If we all contact them, maybe they'll realize it's a profitable business decision to bring the Focus ST 6 spd manual transmission to the US/North American market. Wouldn't hurt to ask for the Fiesta ST and/or the Puma ST 6 speed manual as well!
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center
P.O. Box 6248
Dearborn, MI 48126
Ford U.S. Phone: 1-800-392-3673
LOL fuel cover gone wild!!!
The lovely TypeR rulez the world!!!
Im a current ‘16 ST owner and was thinking of upgrading to the Type R, but its only .4 quicker than the ST and the ST is lesser than the RS which we can expect to come out soon. I would take the ST because its a more balanced road hatch and looks a whole lot better than the over aggressive styling of the Type R.
If you're looking to buy a car because of some slight difference in track times or what some brochure says its power figures are...you're looking at a car for the wrong reasons. I love my 2016 ST. I have FBO with only a Cobb Stage 3 (93)...it sounds, drives, and looks better than any Civic I've been in. I think the TypeR's are very capable, benchmark setting cars for FWD. But they're not that appealing, cost too much, and I think are over rated. The 2015-2018 FoSTs are pretty much one of the best looking modern hatchbacks out there.
Personally, I'd keep the ST and wait until you can find a reasonably priced used RS and enjoy the even better looking, more powerful Focus platform. Thats what I plan on doing. I have a RaceRed ST, but the only RaceRed RS is the '18 limited edition and they're rare here in south Texas especially for a reasonable price. Prob stick with my ST for a while lol
Lol I was refering to the choices between these two...I would choose the ST because its more of a everday car than just a hot hatch and its more appealing in looks...and just like you said, the price. I never got a chance to ride in one so I cant say how it performs but by you being a ST owner yourself, I take your word for it because you know how well the ST drives and handles.
I too was eyeing a RS for my next car and beef it up to 600 hp. I was also thinking if I dont get the RS, why not swap its drivetrain into the ST...havent seen anyone try that yet, probably because that can be quite expensive but may be worth it you thinking of a sleeper ST. Idk, but definitely a RS over a Type R....I agree.