This comment turned into a bit of a freaking essay, lol. When I get talking archery I just go on and on and on... Yes, I am a bit obsessed I guess you could say, lol..... Anyways... you are welcome to read it or not... regardless, keep doing your thing man. I subscribed and will see how you make out with your bows. Good luck!! ------------------------------------------------ Funny I came across this. I just found a delamination on my PSE evolve 35. 60lb limbs on it 28" draw. I have been doing all my own work for about 6-7 years now... and I am OCD and obsessive and been to the depths of every tuning method out there, lol. I have always been careful with it in the press, but I am thinking the problem was that I was using Fast mods on it for the first few years I've owned the bow. I heard a few people say they are hard on the limbs. I have since went to low let offs and it feels wayy smoother. I tend to like a linear draw cycle and hate the lump and dumps... I started as a hunter maybe 16 years ago, but got heavily into target 8 years back, which overtook everything, even my target rifles dont get used much anymore, lol. That said I have grown accustomed to the smooth linear draw with low let offs now. Unfortunately I have no warranty since I got the bow used, but luckily found some 70lbs limbs for a good price, which is okay since its now my hunting bow. I am shooting a TRX38G2 for paper (indoor and 50m Fita) and a TRX36 for 3D ... I had always shot PSE target bows until I won the TRX38 last year... I never really wanted to like mathews because they are so popular, but once I shot the TRX i was amazed. So smooth, quiet, dead in hand, accurate as all heck.... just love it... so much so that I went and got a used TRX36 and built it for a 3d bow, lol. Its a tack driver as well. Since you like shorter bows and seem to love shooting, you should really consider giving a target bow some time behind it. When I am shooting 200 arrows/day the target bows are just so much more pleasurable to shoot.... in my experience of course. I think if you spent a good 4-6 months on a target rig that you get along with you will start to love them. Something shorter maybe like a 36 could be the ticket? I will admit that the new 33's everyone makes are pretty decent crossover bows. I wouldn't shoot one for indoor or 50m, but I certainly would for 3d, plus they are huntable... But if you are fine with owning multiple bows, make one of them a target rig maybe. My pops has an elite verdict and its similar to the TRX in feel. Very very sweet bow with the smooth mods. I could imagine the ethos and kairos are also excellent. Elite has come a long way. I do like mathews current bows with the Title and Lift, but to be honest, I am still not sure about the 8 limb business, and not sure I would give up my TRX's for a title just yet... I see no need whatsoever for the 8 limb crap, and from a physics standpoint, I do not see them being as reliable as the standard split limb designs of everyone else. I heard people struggling to keep the titles and lift in tune and I wonder if that is why. Could be that the match strings are also lacking like zebra was. I have heard good and bad. Limb deflection is super critical though, and I have messed around with limb sequence and i was blown away at the difference it can make in a bows tune. I couldnt get my 36 to tune where I wanted it no matter what top hat config I used... decided to check the limb sequence and thought I could make it more appropriate to my tuning needs and sure as heck, it shot absolute lasers after i re did the sequence. What I am getting at is that maybe with the 8 limb design, the limbs struggle to hold their deflection values through different weather, humidity, temperature, and heavy use. I trust the standard split limb systems a bit more personally. I do like their V3X. Shame you had a limb fail. Anyways, I can agree with the sentiment that mathews is going the wrong way. The lift and title are excellent bows for the most part I think, but I really want to see them drop the 8 limb crap. The wideness of the limbs is great and the lightweight riser and geometry looks great too... I just cannot get on board with the limbs quite yet, lol. Also, I personally do not think its good to have 1 set of limbs to handle 40-80lb mods... from a physics standpoint I do not like the stress delta that can be put on 1 set of limbs. Everyone else has 10lb increments and i think there may be a valid reason for it. I have heard Prime are butter on the draw, but have no time behind them at all... they do intrigue me though, and at lancaster this year I looked at one on the shelf and they look very well made. Good fit and finish. Bulky in the right places. I think they deserve far more recognition than they get.... I still have a soft spot for PSE too since that's what got me into target shooting... but there older models were loud and vibrate like no other... they are fast and accurate, but the mathews is a treat to shoot compared to them. Its interesting you said the new ones are dead in the hand... I have been wondering that myself. What models in particular have you felt? The evolve 33 ds looks interesting to me, as well as the shootdown pro. As for bowtech... My very first hunting bow was a bowtech and I think their engineers are excellent, but their executives ethics over the past year has bugged me a bit. They did Kyle douglas and tim gillingham really dirty. Dropping them with no warning late in the season when all the companies had their annual shooter contracts locked in. That was just gross. BIG kudos to mathews for bringing them in though. They had already finalized their annual contracts and still decided to make room for tim and kyle. Also not a fan of bowtech going after Athens and bankrupting them. I know the technology Athens put out was similar to deadlock, but they said they used patent lawyers to ensure it would be okay. The fact of the matter is that Athens just does not have the funds to fight bowtech in court, so even if they may have won the right to keep their cam system, they just could not afford to duke it out... and bowtech knew it, so they basically made them fold by intimidation... not very cool for a massive wealthy corporation to destroy a small mom and pop company doing their best to innovate and put out something new. I had high hopes for Athens had they been able to keep going. Oh well.... I will just not be buying bowtech for a while...They need to feel a bit of a pinch so they realize the archery community sees what they did. We are not a huge sport compared to many others, and dragging some of the best shooters through the mud is not a good look. Nor is the Athens thing. I was actually considering a reckoning Gen 2 before they did all that.... But, there are soo many other incredible bows out, there is no "need" to buy a bowtech. This is all just my opinion of course. You seem to love archery, as do I........ You might be able to tell from the freaking essay I just wrote in about 10-15 minutes, lol. I will subscribe and see what you are up to from time to time. Good luck brother.
This essay here should be used to prove how passionate we all are about Archery! 😂 I’m not sure if I can get all of your questions answered here but I’ll try my best! I’ve shot both the Evolve 30 and Mach 30 with the EC2 cams. Much less hand shock than the previous models they made. I frequent 2 different bow shops but one just really set me off by telling me that I could never work on bows as well as he can to keep me from buying a bow press. This shop also pushes Mathews pretty hard and he also told me that there was basically no other target bow than the Title. The other shop is another hour drive away but that guy suggested the PSE Shootdown since it’s definitely still a target bow, but has more hunting bow features than most. I don’t plan on buying a target bow for a while longer so I can get my hunting stuff taken care of before worrying about targets! In response to the split limb discussion, it’s funny that you should mention environmental conditions affecting the impact. A few days ago, my shots were about 3-4 yards low with the Phase 4 but dead on with my other bow. You may be onto something with that assessment. I, like you, was really excited about Athens new bows and where they might be headed. But, I wasn’t surprised when Bowtech sued them over the tuning issue. However, Athens really messed up their dealers by pushing product until they announced their closing to the public as a whole. I see both sides of that situation and I see 2 companies focused on profits above all else. I do agree that Bowtech really dropped the ball with Kyle and Tim last year and there is no excuse for that. I’m not against Bowtech but I also just don’t care for the new bows they made this year. Just to add to what I have already said, PSE is the sleeping giant in the archery world. Part of that is due to poor marketing and placement, but when the bow is in your hands, it’s hard to deny the quality and features in the new bows this year. Best of luck to you and hope to hear from you again!
That switchweight limb tech wasn't designed for high volume, 70+ draw weights imo. You simply cannot expect the same performance and longevity from a set of limbs that are designed to shoot 40lbs or 80lbs. There's definitely V3Xs and Lifts out there that aren't experiencing these issues as there will always be variance in quality of materials and personal shooting environments. However, I would argue there's enough of them out there to write these new Mathews bows off your list entirely, OSFA doesn't work for anything worth your money except hats. I've really liked Hoyt's approach and design elements since their Ventum. They've stuck to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" model with their newer bows and it's worked out really well with the new AlphaX. You can see each iteration get a bit more technology without sacrificing the time-tested fundamentals of what makes a bow shoot great. I only use Hoyt as an example because they are their direct competitor and I feel like Hoyt's doing it right. For the record, I currently shoot a PSE Levitate. It seems to me that Mathews is targeting the 18-35 age groups with a lot of bells and whistles. Like a car dealership, they're more interested in selling you a new bow than keeping your current one. That feels overly negative towards Mathews, but it's just what I see. When I buy a $1500 bow I want it to last 5-10 years before I feel I really need to upgrade, I have zero confidence the newer Mathews will even last that long. But I have all the confidence they will try to sell me on the idea that I need this, that, and the other thing to have a minimally quieter shot or some Mathews only doo-dad attachment that I can use with my phone. In the end, a compound bow is a platform limited in it's performance, and until they can make drawing 100lbs feel like 50lbs I'll always shoot what I feel is best for me and recommend others do the same.
thats funny been shooting my vxr 28 at 82 pounds using 75# mods with the strings and cables made a little short and twists in the cables for 4 years zero issues same thing with V3 31 and my V3X 29. the best selling bows means more in the world shit happens to all bow brands these last and are ment to shoot I shoot over a 100 arrows a day and shoot all 3 every week
@@jasonard7227 It's not funny it's just what I see. Do the amount of bows with zero issues outweigh the bad ones? Not if you're the one with the issue. There's simply more things that can go wrong in the newer Mathews bows. Doesn't mean they will, but obviously they can. Yours aren't congratulations, but that doesn't invalidate this guys issues. If you look at the number of cars on the road, you're looking at large numbers. And yes some of them will be defective and yes every car/truck has it's known issues and again YES most of those vehicles don't experience those issues at all and you get 200k miles out of them. This is NOT analogous to the number of bows in circulation, which is a much smaller sample size. Any bow model that is experiencing issues is noteworthy and should be regarded as novel. Basically what I'm saying is in a small world like archery the minority isn't so small and shouldn't be disregarded by the majority. I loved the Mathews Lift 33 in the shop when I went to shoot it. I just don't trust it's going to last.
In my experience, Mathews bows hold up well compared to others. The biggest difference is probably the warranty. Mathews remains the king of customer support when it comes to problems with their product. I don’t like the direction Mathews as a company is going with their bows and that definitely weighs into my decision. I want to shoot the same brand for target and hunting and while the Title is certainly a contender, I don’t know if that is the way I want to go.
I doubt you'll ever be happy unless you learn to be content with whatever you already have. My younger brother is 58 years old. He's owned 3 bows in his lifetime. First one (Browning) failed, because the wood riser snapped in half. 2nd one (Xi) was stolen from his car. He used the insurance money to buy his current bow (Hoyt) over 25 years ago. He can afford most anything. Paid cash for his last pickup truck. He kills deer just like you & I. I upgraded to a new bow 11 years ago, & I don't see myself ever replacing it. Bow specs have changed very little since. It's rock solid, has a solid backward, quiet, & accurate. I don't expect you to care about what I shoot. I don't buy into marketing hype. I shot the same Mathewsfor 17 seasons, but I shoot a different brand today. In the end, who cares?
I agree with the marketing hype. Every brand drops a new bow that is “revolutionary” every year. If they didn’t try to convince consumers to buy the new bow, no one would ever upgrade. After doing research myself, I agree that bow specs have not changed much over the past 10 years or so. It’s been mostly longer risers, integration, and the big switch from single cams to dual cams. I’ve only been shooting for about 4 years now and started with a Browning Coyote and upgraded to a Mission Switch. The next year, I bought my EnVision and after a mishap with it, I purchased a Phase 4. I’ve played around with the Consequence and the V3X line, but I’m back to just the Phase 4 now. I like the Phase 4, but after all the time I’ve spent with it, I’ve realized that it just isn’t quite what I want. I’m looking for the perfect bow that shoots so good to me that I will not be able to find a reason to upgrade. That said, I think most people put too much emphasis on the newest, greatest thing, like the Lift, which is something I don’t care about. Hopefully, I will find the bow that clicks with me and makes me not want to upgrade. I appreciate the comment and I hope you have a great deer season!
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 I wouldn't buy a compound bow I didn't like. I shot my first buck in 1975 at age 12. My first archery buck was harvested with a recurve from a garage sale in 1986. I bought my first used compound in 1987. Since 1987, I have owned a used Martin Cougar Magnum, Martin Firecat (local dealer only carried Martin in those days ,and everyone I knew shot Martin back then). I purchased a Mathews Signature (one year after Mathews moved to Sparta, WI). I live near that area. I shot that bow for 17 seasons, and it had a 41" ATA (made for finger shooters), but only weighed 3.5 pounds. I tried/shot most everything in 2013, when I purchased my current Prime Impact. I take advantage of the free lifetime cables/string offer whenever I need them replaced (every 3-4 seasons). I don't think I will ever replace my current bow. I would feel stupid if I did. In 4 years, I think you have purchased more bows than me. LOL! I don't like messing with my equipment that much. I'd rather master what I already have. If someone stole my bow, I would probably buy an Elite. I have zero brand loyalty. Good luck to you this upcoming deer season, too!
@@driftlesshunter9200 Yeah. I’ve purchased and traded a lot of bows over the last few years! My mistake last year was letting others push me to buy Mathews, both the shop and some friends. I am visiting another shop now that does not push any brand and I will likely end back up with Elite. I just got to shoot the Carbon Era a few days ago and my first thought were “Wow! This feels great!” As I’ve been saying, PSE and Elite are both high on my list, but that Carbon Era may just take the cake for me. I loved the EnVision until everyone started talking about the new Phase 4 and I bought into the hype and I do regret it. The Phase 4 is nice but there are things about it that I do not like. I’m done with following the hype crowd and hope to start finding my place in archery.
been shooting my vxr 28 at 82 pounds using 75# mods with the strings and cables made a little short and twists in the cables for 4 years zero issues same thing with V3 31 and my V3X 29. the best selling bows means more in the world shit happens to all bow brands these last and are ment to shoot I shoot over a 100 arrows a day and shoot all 3 every week
I’m glad you haven’t had any problems. I guess I’m just unlucky with my bows! I have been thinking about trying out some different bows over the last few weeks so maybe this is a sign to do something different.
I had a bowtech target bow and my top limb and bottom limbs cracked at the same time it’s not the bows fought it’s the limbs everyone gets there limbs from the same place
I agree with that. If the riser started to fall apart, we wouldn’t blame the limbs or string, so don’t blame the bow itself for the limbs cracking. Someone told me that Mathews is one of just 2 or 3 brands that makes their own limbs and the rest use the same company. I don’t know if that is true or not, just what I have been told.
@@DBZSTAY I agree and disagree with you on that take. Firstly, if a bow functions as intended, the strings must be replaced. Therefore the strings would be the weakest link. Second, in the case of a dry fire, the cams will generally collapse before the limbs break. In the case of longevity, with the strings replaced as needed, I believe the limbs will fail before all else. This is just my opinion though. I could be completely wrong considering I have splintered limbs on two separate bows this year!
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 i just wasn’t factoring in the string because those need to be changed out over time and I wouldn’t factor in a draw fire because that’s your fought not the bows a limb cracking is something you can’t really control so that’s y I think it’s the weak link
@@DBZSTAY I understand what you’re saying. I think over time limbs prove weaker than other parts of the bow. I agree with you, I was just trying to show different sides of archery.
As long as you shoot the recommended 5 grains per pound of draw weight, you shouldn’t have cracked limbs from arrow weight issues. Under spined arrows may have an impact, but that shouldn’t be the case. I shot 370 grain arrows out of a 70 lb bow for months with no issues and have been shooting arrows slightly over the recommended almost exclusively out of my Phase 4 with no issues at all. That said, I don’t believe the arrow weight caused the problem.
That's cool I just have Bow CD (like ocd). I overdo everything. It's not normal what I do. I just put 100 grain inserts in all my arrows. Most people do what you do. I shot a few arrows yesterday and my wife just called and said they finally hit the target.
@@TORREX-A.D. I understand. I would be the same way if I wasn’t trying to save money on arrows. Heavy arrows just are not for me due to the speed. To each his own. Nice joke!😂
If you’re all about speed, then do not even try Prime. MFJJ from Podium Archer did a speed test on all RVX’s and not one of them 32, 34, or the 36 came close to IBO. In fact they were about 20 fps off. Check out his review.
Mfjj only likes mathews bows because I did a speed test with both the Prime revex and Rvx and they were 6 fps off Ibo speed I don't trust Mfjj bow reviews he likes mathews and blowtech only
@@denniskay8178 When did you do this test? Just curious since Prime said they fixed it. Maybe there were some legitimate changes between your test and his.
If that was the case, I would certainly agree. The bow in question is set at 70 pounds, 29.5 inches, with arrows slightly over 400 grains. That should not be the issue since I have shot 370 grain arrows out of 70 pound, 30 inch bows with no issues at all. The 365 grains I’m talking about would be for a 70 pound bow. 6.0 sonics, 340 spine, blazer vanes.
I have not been able to experience any Bear bows due to a lack of availability in my area. If there was a dealer near me, I would definitely try out the Persist.
I'm going to tell you right now bubba. The s2 cams are awful. I'm trying to tell ya, they are absolutely terrible. I'm a 28 inch draw cycle so it could be where I was ending up in the cycle but worst cams i've ever shot. Worst dump ever, they are screaming fast, but I hate hunting witha dump like that. I went with a Prime RVX32, butter.
I’ve shot the s2 cams on a PSE before and it was stiff but wasn’t too bad for me. Probably the draw length caused it to feel worse for you. I want to try a Prime but the closest dealer is about 150 miles away from me.
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 I've shot alot of models, but like you said in this video, this one fit me the best. I'm more of a comfort shooter i've found out. Went for speed, and it just wasn't for me, I like to draw, be comfortable, then shoot my target. Took me alot of money to find that out lol.
@@SouthernDrawTN Absolutely! Shoot what you are comfortable with because that helps your accuracy and accuracy is the most important part of archery. If you had asked me even 2 or 3 months ago if speed was very important to me, I would have said no. However, there is a specific hunting opportunity I have coming up and speed is the absolute most important thing other that accuracy of course. It’s not a guarantee that I will change anything before season but if I do, speed will be one of the most important factors in that decision.
@@paulheberling2750 Yea my buddy has the omen with the e2's and he loves it. I think like Joel said, it was my draw with the s2s that made me not like them, but i've been told by many ppl the s2 cams are their worst cams.
If you are leaving your bow in a super hot environment like a black truck, it can cause it it happen. This is the first I've heard of Matthew's limbs splintering; I'm sure it happens.
That’s interesting. I do drive a black truck, but I do not leave my bows in there often. It also would beg the question, why did the V3X and Darton Consequence splinter and all of my other bows not? I can definitely see where you are coming from, but I sure hope this isn’t the case. I expect WAY more from Mathews.
We see more Mathews split limbs in our shop than any other. But more than likely it’s due the shop sells probably 3/1 Mathews vs the other brands. I think they all are about equal…. Some of what we see is there are a LOT of uneducated new shooters that shoot Mathews simply because it’s the only brand they know. Mathews makes a killer bow, but it’s marketing…they all are pretty darn killer.
@@poppasmurf15 I think you hit the nail on the head. If you go to Chevy dealership, the mechanics tell you not to buy Chevy because that’s all they work on. Same with Ford and Ram and everyone else. Mathews is so popular due to the marketing. Their bows are great but when compared directly to bows like the Elite Era and PSE Evolve 30 DS, I have a hard time believing so many people would pick the Mathews over them. Some certainly will but no company makes a bow that is for everyone. I think pretty much all of the bows made now are similar in quality but the performance sets them apart to me and Mathews seems to lie about speeds and stuff like that.
Like I have said before, I do not like the Lift. I’m not saying it’s bad or anything but it just isn’t the bow for me this year and I definitely don’t want to go drop $2k in a bow that is not the best for me.
Great question! Needless to say, a bow press is in the future for me. I use two different shops; one in Valdosta and the other in Tifton. Both bows came from Valdosta. I am not blaming the shop in Valdosta. Both shops have specific things I like and dislike about them. I probably just have some bad luck with bows this year coming from that particular shop.
The guy who is working on his bow is an amazing man with over 20+ years of experience. He’s been doing all of mine and my families bows for years, and he has done an amazing job at that. So, in saying that there’s many things that can cause a limb to splinter and majority of them (and in this case more than likely) has to do with the person behind the bow. Limbs splinter when energy is incorrectly transferred to the arrow, and things such as a broken nock or a broken arrow can cause limbs to splinter. I’d back the archery shop in Valdosta with just about anything because they’re about as welcoming of a family and business that you can find.
Yes, the guy in Valdosta knows his stuff. He does good work and is helpful to many people. I’m trying to keep my personal feelings out of this so I won’t go into all the reasons I’m planning to cut back on my spending there. I have purchased 4 bows from him, 2 failures. I’m not blaming him for those failures, but I’m trying to find the common denominator between the 2 bows to prevent it in the future. Also, I am very careful to check nocks and the carbon of my arrows. The Gold Tip “Flex-it-First” is a motto I believe in since I have had several arrows break in flexing that could have caused problems. I always purchase nocks and change them out when there is damage. Maybe I have missed something else that caused it. So, Kameron, I’m glad you found my channel. I hope this has not caused any problems. I intentionally did not say these things in the video because I don’t want to talk bad about anyone. I think my comment has been misconstrued as an attack, when it was not intended as such. They are good people and they do good work.
This comment turned into a bit of a freaking essay, lol. When I get talking archery I just go on and on and on... Yes, I am a bit obsessed I guess you could say, lol..... Anyways... you are welcome to read it or not... regardless, keep doing your thing man. I subscribed and will see how you make out with your bows.
Good luck!!
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Funny I came across this. I just found a delamination on my PSE evolve 35. 60lb limbs on it 28" draw. I have been doing all my own work for about 6-7 years now... and I am OCD and obsessive and been to the depths of every tuning method out there, lol. I have always been careful with it in the press, but I am thinking the problem was that I was using Fast mods on it for the first few years I've owned the bow. I heard a few people say they are hard on the limbs. I have since went to low let offs and it feels wayy smoother. I tend to like a linear draw cycle and hate the lump and dumps... I started as a hunter maybe 16 years ago, but got heavily into target 8 years back, which overtook everything, even my target rifles dont get used much anymore, lol. That said I have grown accustomed to the smooth linear draw with low let offs now. Unfortunately I have no warranty since I got the bow used, but luckily found some 70lbs limbs for a good price, which is okay since its now my hunting bow. I am shooting a TRX38G2 for paper (indoor and 50m Fita) and a TRX36 for 3D ... I had always shot PSE target bows until I won the TRX38 last year... I never really wanted to like mathews because they are so popular, but once I shot the TRX i was amazed. So smooth, quiet, dead in hand, accurate as all heck.... just love it... so much so that I went and got a used TRX36 and built it for a 3d bow, lol. Its a tack driver as well.
Since you like shorter bows and seem to love shooting, you should really consider giving a target bow some time behind it. When I am shooting 200 arrows/day the target bows are just so much more pleasurable to shoot.... in my experience of course. I think if you spent a good 4-6 months on a target rig that you get along with you will start to love them. Something shorter maybe like a 36 could be the ticket? I will admit that the new 33's everyone makes are pretty decent crossover bows. I wouldn't shoot one for indoor or 50m, but I certainly would for 3d, plus they are huntable... But if you are fine with owning multiple bows, make one of them a target rig maybe. My pops has an elite verdict and its similar to the TRX in feel. Very very sweet bow with the smooth mods. I could imagine the ethos and kairos are also excellent. Elite has come a long way. I do like mathews current bows with the Title and Lift, but to be honest, I am still not sure about the 8 limb business, and not sure I would give up my TRX's for a title just yet... I see no need whatsoever for the 8 limb crap, and from a physics standpoint, I do not see them being as reliable as the standard split limb designs of everyone else. I heard people struggling to keep the titles and lift in tune and I wonder if that is why. Could be that the match strings are also lacking like zebra was. I have heard good and bad. Limb deflection is super critical though, and I have messed around with limb sequence and i was blown away at the difference it can make in a bows tune. I couldnt get my 36 to tune where I wanted it no matter what top hat config I used... decided to check the limb sequence and thought I could make it more appropriate to my tuning needs and sure as heck, it shot absolute lasers after i re did the sequence. What I am getting at is that maybe with the 8 limb design, the limbs struggle to hold their deflection values through different weather, humidity, temperature, and heavy use. I trust the standard split limb systems a bit more personally. I do like their V3X. Shame you had a limb fail. Anyways, I can agree with the sentiment that mathews is going the wrong way. The lift and title are excellent bows for the most part I think, but I really want to see them drop the 8 limb crap. The wideness of the limbs is great and the lightweight riser and geometry looks great too... I just cannot get on board with the limbs quite yet, lol. Also, I personally do not think its good to have 1 set of limbs to handle 40-80lb mods... from a physics standpoint I do not like the stress delta that can be put on 1 set of limbs. Everyone else has 10lb increments and i think there may be a valid reason for it.
I have heard Prime are butter on the draw, but have no time behind them at all... they do intrigue me though, and at lancaster this year I looked at one on the shelf and they look very well made. Good fit and finish. Bulky in the right places. I think they deserve far more recognition than they get.... I still have a soft spot for PSE too since that's what got me into target shooting... but there older models were loud and vibrate like no other... they are fast and accurate, but the mathews is a treat to shoot compared to them. Its interesting you said the new ones are dead in the hand... I have been wondering that myself. What models in particular have you felt? The evolve 33 ds looks interesting to me, as well as the shootdown pro.
As for bowtech... My very first hunting bow was a bowtech and I think their engineers are excellent, but their executives ethics over the past year has bugged me a bit. They did Kyle douglas and tim gillingham really dirty. Dropping them with no warning late in the season when all the companies had their annual shooter contracts locked in. That was just gross. BIG kudos to mathews for bringing them in though. They had already finalized their annual contracts and still decided to make room for tim and kyle. Also not a fan of bowtech going after Athens and bankrupting them. I know the technology Athens put out was similar to deadlock, but they said they used patent lawyers to ensure it would be okay. The fact of the matter is that Athens just does not have the funds to fight bowtech in court, so even if they may have won the right to keep their cam system, they just could not afford to duke it out... and bowtech knew it, so they basically made them fold by intimidation... not very cool for a massive wealthy corporation to destroy a small mom and pop company doing their best to innovate and put out something new. I had high hopes for Athens had they been able to keep going. Oh well.... I will just not be buying bowtech for a while...They need to feel a bit of a pinch so they realize the archery community sees what they did. We are not a huge sport compared to many others, and dragging some of the best shooters through the mud is not a good look. Nor is the Athens thing. I was actually considering a reckoning Gen 2 before they did all that.... But, there are soo many other incredible bows out, there is no "need" to buy a bowtech.
This is all just my opinion of course. You seem to love archery, as do I........ You might be able to tell from the freaking essay I just wrote in about 10-15 minutes, lol. I will subscribe and see what you are up to from time to time. Good luck brother.
This essay here should be used to prove how passionate we all are about Archery! 😂 I’m not sure if I can get all of your questions answered here but I’ll try my best! I’ve shot both the Evolve 30 and Mach 30 with the EC2 cams. Much less hand shock than the previous models they made. I frequent 2 different bow shops but one just really set me off by telling me that I could never work on bows as well as he can to keep me from buying a bow press. This shop also pushes Mathews pretty hard and he also told me that there was basically no other target bow than the Title. The other shop is another hour drive away but that guy suggested the PSE Shootdown since it’s definitely still a target bow, but has more hunting bow features than most. I don’t plan on buying a target bow for a while longer so I can get my hunting stuff taken care of before worrying about targets!
In response to the split limb discussion, it’s funny that you should mention environmental conditions affecting the impact. A few days ago, my shots were about 3-4 yards low with the Phase 4 but dead on with my other bow. You may be onto something with that assessment.
I, like you, was really excited about Athens new bows and where they might be headed. But, I wasn’t surprised when Bowtech sued them over the tuning issue. However, Athens really messed up their dealers by pushing product until they announced their closing to the public as a whole. I see both sides of that situation and I see 2 companies focused on profits above all else. I do agree that Bowtech really dropped the ball with Kyle and Tim last year and there is no excuse for that. I’m not against Bowtech but I also just don’t care for the new bows they made this year.
Just to add to what I have already said, PSE is the sleeping giant in the archery world. Part of that is due to poor marketing and placement, but when the bow is in your hands, it’s hard to deny the quality and features in the new bows this year. Best of luck to you and hope to hear from you again!
That switchweight limb tech wasn't designed for high volume, 70+ draw weights imo. You simply cannot expect the same performance and longevity from a set of limbs that are designed to shoot 40lbs or 80lbs. There's definitely V3Xs and Lifts out there that aren't experiencing these issues as there will always be variance in quality of materials and personal shooting environments. However, I would argue there's enough of them out there to write these new Mathews bows off your list entirely, OSFA doesn't work for anything worth your money except hats. I've really liked Hoyt's approach and design elements since their Ventum. They've stuck to the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" model with their newer bows and it's worked out really well with the new AlphaX. You can see each iteration get a bit more technology without sacrificing the time-tested fundamentals of what makes a bow shoot great. I only use Hoyt as an example because they are their direct competitor and I feel like Hoyt's doing it right. For the record, I currently shoot a PSE Levitate.
It seems to me that Mathews is targeting the 18-35 age groups with a lot of bells and whistles. Like a car dealership, they're more interested in selling you a new bow than keeping your current one. That feels overly negative towards Mathews, but it's just what I see. When I buy a $1500 bow I want it to last 5-10 years before I feel I really need to upgrade, I have zero confidence the newer Mathews will even last that long. But I have all the confidence they will try to sell me on the idea that I need this, that, and the other thing to have a minimally quieter shot or some Mathews only doo-dad attachment that I can use with my phone.
In the end, a compound bow is a platform limited in it's performance, and until they can make drawing 100lbs feel like 50lbs I'll always shoot what I feel is best for me and recommend others do the same.
thats funny been shooting my vxr 28 at 82 pounds using 75# mods with the strings and cables made a little short and twists in the cables for 4 years zero issues same thing with V3 31 and my V3X 29. the best selling bows means more in the world shit happens to all bow brands these last and are ment to shoot I shoot over a 100 arrows a day and shoot all 3 every week
@@jasonard7227 It's not funny it's just what I see. Do the amount of bows with zero issues outweigh the bad ones? Not if you're the one with the issue. There's simply more things that can go wrong in the newer Mathews bows. Doesn't mean they will, but obviously they can. Yours aren't congratulations, but that doesn't invalidate this guys issues.
If you look at the number of cars on the road, you're looking at large numbers. And yes some of them will be defective and yes every car/truck has it's known issues and again YES most of those vehicles don't experience those issues at all and you get 200k miles out of them. This is NOT analogous to the number of bows in circulation, which is a much smaller sample size. Any bow model that is experiencing issues is noteworthy and should be regarded as novel. Basically what I'm saying is in a small world like archery the minority isn't so small and shouldn't be disregarded by the majority.
I loved the Mathews Lift 33 in the shop when I went to shoot it. I just don't trust it's going to last.
In my experience, Mathews bows hold up well compared to others. The biggest difference is probably the warranty. Mathews remains the king of customer support when it comes to problems with their product. I don’t like the direction Mathews as a company is going with their bows and that definitely weighs into my decision. I want to shoot the same brand for target and hunting and while the Title is certainly a contender, I don’t know if that is the way I want to go.
That boy must have been vaccinated with a phonograph needle. But, he knows his stuff. Great information.
😂😂😂
It’s something I’m trying to work on. I tend to ramble and just spill information.
Just came across your channel and subscribed
Thanks man! I really appreciate it!
I doubt you'll ever be happy unless you learn to be content with whatever you already have. My younger brother is 58 years old. He's owned 3 bows in his lifetime. First one (Browning) failed, because the wood riser snapped in half. 2nd one (Xi) was stolen from his car. He used the insurance money to buy his current bow (Hoyt) over 25 years ago. He can afford most anything. Paid cash for his last pickup truck. He kills deer just like you & I. I upgraded to a new bow 11 years ago, & I don't see myself ever replacing it. Bow specs have changed very little since. It's rock solid, has a solid backward, quiet, & accurate. I don't expect you to care about what I shoot. I don't buy into marketing hype. I shot the same Mathewsfor 17 seasons, but I shoot a different brand today. In the end, who cares?
I agree with the marketing hype. Every brand drops a new bow that is “revolutionary” every year. If they didn’t try to convince consumers to buy the new bow, no one would ever upgrade. After doing research myself, I agree that bow specs have not changed much over the past 10 years or so. It’s been mostly longer risers, integration, and the big switch from single cams to dual cams. I’ve only been shooting for about 4 years now and started with a Browning Coyote and upgraded to a Mission Switch. The next year, I bought my EnVision and after a mishap with it, I purchased a Phase 4. I’ve played around with the Consequence and the V3X line, but I’m back to just the Phase 4 now. I like the Phase 4, but after all the time I’ve spent with it, I’ve realized that it just isn’t quite what I want. I’m looking for the perfect bow that shoots so good to me that I will not be able to find a reason to upgrade. That said, I think most people put too much emphasis on the newest, greatest thing, like the Lift, which is something I don’t care about. Hopefully, I will find the bow that clicks with me and makes me not want to upgrade. I appreciate the comment and I hope you have a great deer season!
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 I wouldn't buy a compound bow I didn't like. I shot my first buck in 1975 at age 12. My first archery buck was harvested with a recurve from a garage sale in 1986. I bought my first used compound in 1987. Since 1987, I have owned a used Martin Cougar Magnum, Martin Firecat (local dealer only carried Martin in those days ,and everyone I knew shot Martin back then). I purchased a Mathews Signature (one year after Mathews moved to Sparta, WI). I live near that area. I shot that bow for 17 seasons, and it had a 41" ATA (made for finger shooters), but only weighed 3.5 pounds. I tried/shot most everything in 2013, when I purchased my current Prime Impact. I take advantage of the free lifetime cables/string offer whenever I need them replaced (every 3-4 seasons). I don't think I will ever replace my current bow. I would feel stupid if I did. In 4 years, I think you have purchased more bows than me. LOL! I don't like messing with my equipment that much. I'd rather master what I already have. If someone stole my bow, I would probably buy an Elite. I have zero brand loyalty. Good luck to you this upcoming deer season, too!
@@driftlesshunter9200 Yeah. I’ve purchased and traded a lot of bows over the last few years! My mistake last year was letting others push me to buy Mathews, both the shop and some friends. I am visiting another shop now that does not push any brand and I will likely end back up with Elite. I just got to shoot the Carbon Era a few days ago and my first thought were “Wow! This feels great!” As I’ve been saying, PSE and Elite are both high on my list, but that Carbon Era may just take the cake for me. I loved the EnVision until everyone started talking about the new Phase 4 and I bought into the hype and I do regret it. The Phase 4 is nice but there are things about it that I do not like. I’m done with following the hype crowd and hope to start finding my place in archery.
been shooting my vxr 28 at 82 pounds using 75# mods with the strings and cables made a little short and twists in the cables for 4 years zero issues same thing with V3 31 and my V3X 29. the best selling bows means more in the world shit happens to all bow brands these last and are ment to shoot I shoot over a 100 arrows a day and shoot all 3 every week
I’m glad you haven’t had any problems. I guess I’m just unlucky with my bows! I have been thinking about trying out some different bows over the last few weeks so maybe this is a sign to do something different.
I loved the Darton sequel 33.
I really like what Darton has done this year but my experience with the Consequence has left me with a bad taste for their products.
I had a bowtech target bow and my top limb and bottom limbs cracked at the same time it’s not the bows fought it’s the limbs everyone gets there limbs from the same place
I agree with that. If the riser started to fall apart, we wouldn’t blame the limbs or string, so don’t blame the bow itself for the limbs cracking. Someone told me that Mathews is one of just 2 or 3 brands that makes their own limbs and the rest use the same company. I don’t know if that is true or not, just what I have been told.
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 possibly I don’t know if that’s a fact or not but I just think limbs r the weakest link on a bow
@@DBZSTAY I agree and disagree with you on that take. Firstly, if a bow functions as intended, the strings must be replaced. Therefore the strings would be the weakest link. Second, in the case of a dry fire, the cams will generally collapse before the limbs break. In the case of longevity, with the strings replaced as needed, I believe the limbs will fail before all else. This is just my opinion though. I could be completely wrong considering I have splintered limbs on two separate bows this year!
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 i just wasn’t factoring in the string because those need to be changed out over time and I wouldn’t factor in a draw fire because that’s your fought not the bows a limb cracking is something you can’t really control so that’s y I think it’s the weak link
@@DBZSTAY I understand what you’re saying. I think over time limbs prove weaker than other parts of the bow. I agree with you, I was just trying to show different sides of archery.
I've never cracked a limb cuz I don't shoot anything less than 480 grains. 70 lb down to 60. people laugh at me when I do this
As long as you shoot the recommended 5 grains per pound of draw weight, you shouldn’t have cracked limbs from arrow weight issues. Under spined arrows may have an impact, but that shouldn’t be the case. I shot 370 grain arrows out of a 70 lb bow for months with no issues and have been shooting arrows slightly over the recommended almost exclusively out of my Phase 4 with no issues at all. That said, I don’t believe the arrow weight caused the problem.
That's cool I just have Bow CD (like ocd). I overdo everything. It's not normal what I do. I just put 100 grain inserts in all my arrows. Most people do what you do. I shot a few arrows yesterday and my wife just called and said they finally hit the target.
@@TORREX-A.D. I understand. I would be the same way if I wasn’t trying to save money on arrows. Heavy arrows just are not for me due to the speed. To each his own. Nice joke!😂
If you’re all about speed, then do not even try Prime. MFJJ from Podium Archer did a speed test on all RVX’s and not one of them 32, 34, or the 36 came close to IBO. In fact they were about 20 fps off. Check out his review.
I saw those reviews. Really disappointing from a company with so much potential. They said they fixed the problem so time will tell.
Mfjj only likes mathews bows because I did a speed test with both the Prime revex and Rvx and they were 6 fps off Ibo speed I don't trust Mfjj bow reviews he likes mathews and blowtech only
@@denniskay8178 When did you do this test? Just curious since Prime said they fixed it. Maybe there were some legitimate changes between your test and his.
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 in march of this year when I bought my Revex
Your problem seems simple If you are shooting at 30 inches, 75ish pounds and only 365 grain arrows …
If that was the case, I would certainly agree. The bow in question is set at 70 pounds, 29.5 inches, with arrows slightly over 400 grains. That should not be the issue since I have shot 370 grain arrows out of 70 pound, 30 inch bows with no issues at all. The 365 grains I’m talking about would be for a 70 pound bow. 6.0 sonics, 340 spine, blazer vanes.
Have you tried the bear status
I have not been able to experience any Bear bows due to a lack of availability in my area. If there was a dealer near me, I would definitely try out the Persist.
I'm going to tell you right now bubba. The s2 cams are awful. I'm trying to tell ya, they are absolutely terrible. I'm a 28 inch draw cycle so it could be where I was ending up in the cycle but worst cams i've ever shot. Worst dump ever, they are screaming fast, but I hate hunting witha dump like that. I went with a Prime RVX32, butter.
I’ve shot the s2 cams on a PSE before and it was stiff but wasn’t too bad for me. Probably the draw length caused it to feel worse for you. I want to try a Prime but the closest dealer is about 150 miles away from me.
@@joelculpepperoutdoors4262 I've shot alot of models, but like you said in this video, this one fit me the best. I'm more of a comfort shooter i've found out. Went for speed, and it just wasn't for me, I like to draw, be comfortable, then shoot my target. Took me alot of money to find that out lol.
@@SouthernDrawTN Absolutely! Shoot what you are comfortable with because that helps your accuracy and accuracy is the most important part of archery. If you had asked me even 2 or 3 months ago if speed was very important to me, I would have said no. However, there is a specific hunting opportunity I have coming up and speed is the absolute most important thing other that accuracy of course. It’s not a guarantee that I will change anything before season but if I do, speed will be one of the most important factors in that decision.
Bro, no, PSE is grea! really enjoying my new Omen with the E2’s! Got a nice hump in thar too! But I guess I’m more of a speed guy myself 😁
@@paulheberling2750 Yea my buddy has the omen with the e2's and he loves it. I think like Joel said, it was my draw with the s2s that made me not like them, but i've been told by many ppl the s2 cams are their worst cams.
If you are leaving your bow in a super hot environment like a black truck, it can cause it it happen. This is the first I've heard of Matthew's limbs splintering; I'm sure it happens.
That’s interesting. I do drive a black truck, but I do not leave my bows in there often. It also would beg the question, why did the V3X and Darton Consequence splinter and all of my other bows not? I can definitely see where you are coming from, but I sure hope this isn’t the case. I expect WAY more from Mathews.
We see more Mathews split limbs in our shop than any other. But more than likely it’s due the shop sells probably 3/1 Mathews vs the other brands. I think they all are about equal…. Some of what we see is there are a LOT of uneducated new shooters that shoot Mathews simply because it’s the only brand they know. Mathews makes a killer bow, but it’s marketing…they all are pretty darn killer.
@@poppasmurf15 I think you hit the nail on the head. If you go to Chevy dealership, the mechanics tell you not to buy Chevy because that’s all they work on. Same with Ford and Ram and everyone else. Mathews is so popular due to the marketing. Their bows are great but when compared directly to bows like the Elite Era and PSE Evolve 30 DS, I have a hard time believing so many people would pick the Mathews over them. Some certainly will but no company makes a bow that is for everyone. I think pretty much all of the bows made now are similar in quality but the performance sets them apart to me and Mathews seems to lie about speeds and stuff like that.
Man get u a lift
Like I have said before, I do not like the Lift. I’m not saying it’s bad or anything but it just isn’t the bow for me this year and I definitely don’t want to go drop $2k in a bow that is not the best for me.
Big dawg 2 limb failures back to back who works on the bows lol ?
Great question! Needless to say, a bow press is in the future for me. I use two different shops; one in Valdosta and the other in Tifton. Both bows came from Valdosta. I am not blaming the shop in Valdosta. Both shops have specific things I like and dislike about them. I probably just have some bad luck with bows this year coming from that particular shop.
The guy who is working on his bow is an amazing man with over 20+ years of experience. He’s been doing all of mine and my families bows for years, and he has done an amazing job at that. So, in saying that there’s many things that can cause a limb to splinter and majority of them (and in this case more than likely) has to do with the person behind the bow. Limbs splinter when energy is incorrectly transferred to the arrow, and things such as a broken nock or a broken arrow can cause limbs to splinter. I’d back the archery shop in Valdosta with just about anything because they’re about as welcoming of a family and business that you can find.
Yes, the guy in Valdosta knows his stuff. He does good work and is helpful to many people. I’m trying to keep my personal feelings out of this so I won’t go into all the reasons I’m planning to cut back on my spending there. I have purchased 4 bows from him, 2 failures. I’m not blaming him for those failures, but I’m trying to find the common denominator between the 2 bows to prevent it in the future.
Also, I am very careful to check nocks and the carbon of my arrows. The Gold Tip “Flex-it-First” is a motto I believe in since I have had several arrows break in flexing that could have caused problems. I always purchase nocks and change them out when there is damage. Maybe I have missed something else that caused it.
So, Kameron, I’m glad you found my channel. I hope this has not caused any problems. I intentionally did not say these things in the video because I don’t want to talk bad about anyone. I think my comment has been misconstrued as an attack, when it was not intended as such. They are good people and they do good work.