POST stands for Power On Self Test. That plastic "straw" is the handle for plastic variable inductors, you can screw / unscrew the ferrous slugs in and out of inductors without affecting the magnetic field.
A few more: Basic Input Output System (BIOS), Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor (CMOS), Industry Standard Architecture (ISA), Peripheral Components Interconnect (PCI), and my personal favorite, Technology Without An Interesting Name (TWAIN).
@@user-wj9xq7ig2v Integrated Drive Electronics and Serial AT Attachment (AT as in IBM AT, which is"Advanced Technology"). And EIDE = Enhanced Integrated Drive Electronics, SCSI = Small Computer Systems Interface, RLL = Run-Length Limited (RLE = Run-Length Encoded), MFM = Modified Frequency Modulation, RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks, JBOD = Just a Bunch Of Disks, ATAPI = AT Attachment Packet Interface (usually used in reference to CD-ROM/RW drives).
Great video as usual, Adrian! If I may make two suggestions: if you sanded down a trace, it's always a good idea to re-tin it before applying a solder-mask (or nail polish, in your case) layer on top. When you sanded the trace you removed copper and increased the impedance of the trace, even if you still have continuity. A thin layer of tin applied on top should both prevent corrosion (even without the nail polish) and improve conductivity. The other suggestion is to use flux varnish instead of nail polish. Unlike the former, the latter won't take solder and needs to be removed with acetone in case future re-work is needed, which will damage both the solder mask and plastics around. If you re-tin the exposed copper, you don't even need anything else on top and can always re-work later.
@@adriansdigitalbasement this patch wires work .. It would be good practice for you with the the heat gun .. an the tin paste... instead of that "huge" solder iron that you already use well...
There aren't actually any acetone-sensitive plastics on the components soldered into the PCB, since PCBs can optionally undergo MEK-wash during manufacturing and that is so closely related to acetone that their material compatibility is essentially identical. I'm not fond of flux varnish. Sometimes you have a product that has failed after a long time, you wash it and it's good again - why? Some sort of long term changes within the flux? Hygroscopic effect? But you can also get a real soldermask material and a tiny little UV torch, so that's an option that exist, super inexpensive as well.
Tip for removing those plastic stand-offs? Find the right socket from a small socket set where it will pinch the plastic arms and let you pull it out easily.
Bic ballpoint with the ink part removed, but not the sort of shroud/tapered bit that centers it in the body. Just push it over and it should disengage but not go all the way down and instead push it out the backside
Another great choice is a connector pin removal tool, like those for AMP CPC (= Circular Plastic Connector), some Molex connectors or some Burndy connectors. (Burndy UTG connectors have later been made by FC, although I don't know who makes their pin removal tool) Their sizes vary, but some of them fit some of those plastic thingies just fine. They have an internal plunger to finish the job by pushing the plunger end after the plastic tongue is squeezed in.
For the stand-off's, I used to use a multi-bit screw driver, with no bits - the hole in the end was just big enough to push over it, and it would squeeze them closed, and I could just pull from the other side... or an old pen, or a straw!! :)
I use an old school white BIC pen with the ink removed from the blue tip. Just leave that middle piece on, fits right on the top of them, and they pull right out with ease.
I believe that red plastic straw is a nut starter. Every Heathkit I ever built came with one. A small 6-32 nut will friction fit in one end and a 4-40 in the other. It’s then very easy to get the nut into the right position and spin it onto the threads, especially if they’re inside a chassis or cabinet. I’ve still got several on my workbench because they’re so handy.
I used to remove the plastic standoffs with a nose plier pinching each wing with either side of the plier and using my other hand to pull while at the same time pushing with the pliers to make sure the standoff went through. It usually worked like a charm! Thanks for the great video Adrian!
What a great episode! I wish I had known back in the day all the things I do know now, when I had to send to recicle motherboards and other (now retro) hardware because of battery leakage and board damage. I don't know if them could have been saved, but I definitely would have tried.
Years ago when I was working in a computer shop I used to remove those standoffs like you did, with a needle nose plier. Although in my case if I had to spend more than a few seconds removing it I would just cut it off with a side cutter, since there are always plenty of spare standoffs lying around.
23:00 When working with parallel traces like that, If you stagger the placement of the beginning and end of your repairs they will be easier to work with. I would just run a proper Guage wire across tbh. To each their own 😊
That staggering tip also works great if you are putting heat shrink tubing over solder connections on 2 or more wires on some type of harness. Keeps all the big wads from being beside each other.
Nice work! Great to see retro PC hardware getting some repair love. As soon as Adrian said "I don't know what [POST] actually means" I could see everyone rushing to comment lol
#1 Glad to see you wearing the watch band. The red plastic "straw" is an extension tool for the other non conductive tools for adjusting ferret core inductors or pots. You had the right idea you just need a smaller diameter tube to depress the locking tab on the stand offs.
I worked as an automotive technician for nearly 2 decades and automotive stuff uses some similar fasteners as the motherboard standoffs. What I used was a socket for nuts or bolts. If you have a small socket set, it’ll probably work great for this. If you put the appropriately sized socket over the fastener, then turn it, the smaller part of the hex in the socket will squeeze the plastic latches together, then you can pull it out from the back. Worth a try, it worked well for me.
You have deep respect from me for your repair efforts. It is a really fiddly and challenging task, and you did great. You likely did better trace repair than I ever will accomplish, should I ever try this. Every repair you make just reeks of care and respect for the computer. Really nice to watch.
Another great video. When batteries leak the corrosion is also caused by the gas that is given off not just by battery fluid. If you put the battery in a container to help prevent corrosion make sure it's air tight. The only real way to prevent battery corrosion is to check your battery every now and again or remove it altogether if storing your PC.
Haha, i love the mild influence of the alcohol on this vid. Having doing some repair with a few beers on my system i can assure that you get funnier results and some very clever and unique ways to solve problems.
So awesome to show up on RUclips at the end of the day and find that you've uploaded a new video. I actually watch them as I pass out then again the next day to see what I missed.
That was fun! Another old motherboard saved from being e-waste. The first computer I ever bought with my own money was a 386-DX 25MHz. Bought it in April of 1989. And it had that exact video card in it. 🙂 Man, I can't believe how long ago that was now.
Those AT/286 style motherboard standoffs still have a use in 2022! Some modern MSI motherboards designed with an additional mounting hole which isn't part of the typical ATX specification. Remove the bottom nub of the standoff with side cutters and you end up with a flat plastic part you can use on such an MSI board to support the motherboard. No metal or case mounting point needed! 😀
Oh wow! Haha. I've cut the nub off a bunch of times for that purpose -- although nor I use the little standoffs which are more like "couplers" that don't have the screw part that would go into the case. Takes a little longer to put in, but a whole lot less frustrating :-)
Steven have repair 2 of this boards. He placed a extern battery holder with batterij and work with bud wires Its nice to see that this board is repaired
I have a Schneider EuroPC 8088 that i had repaired 2 years ago. I take 2 years to repair. Video chip replaced , keyoard membrane cloned on pcb designed by me. Hard work, some money spended but its working.
POST is short for Power-On Self-Test. It is one of those acronyms that you kind of feel that you could have guessed it, once you know what it stands for, but you never did, or at least that is how younger me felt like, when I first looked it up. :-D Also fun fact, originally when Turbo button become a thing, it was actually there for compatibility mode with older stuff and therefore turbo on meant slow mode and off meant fast mode. But due to this causing a lot of confusion, eventually it got flipped around, so turbo on became fast mode. Quite a lot of people were turning turbo on thinking it was fast mode. :-D At least if memory serves.
I like to wash the area with WD-40 after the vinegar to dissolve all the neutralized acid. Wash it off with IPA afterwards and the area is nice and clean.
I gave it a good wash with soap, water and a brush. Once it's dry, I give it a sniff test to make sure nothing remains. I'm no dog but the smell of vinegar is quite off-putting, I it's a really strong smell for me.
Hi Adrian, nice video. recommend when you repair tracks:. 1. add flux and solder to track before adding botch wire. So flux, solder add, move solder back and forth on the track to make proper contact (and clean) and pre-tinning. then new flux add and finally solder on botch wire. Best of luck 😊
Standoff removal trick from the original Greybeards of the 70s/80s... Pilfer nearest disposable removable cap-with-pocket-clip type Bic ballpoint pen. Remove and discard said cap, grab the metal tapered piece at the functional end with some grippy jaw pliers, or a bench vise, pull out the insert via the metal part, but don't separate the colored plastic "hollow truncated frustum" (nosecone?) from the white body tube... Then shove the hole where the insert was formerly held in place at the "business end" over the "wings" of the standoff that stick out to retain the standoffs in the holes, the diameter and length of the hole at the end is dead-nuts tight enough to collapse the wings enough to pass through the hold but not get stuck in the pen in the process... Think of the same kinda technique as a "molex pin removal tool" for 4-pin drive connectors...
Hi Adrian, when I was in the aeronautics industry we had tools for releasing the pins from Molex and military connectors that were just a plastic handle with a thin hollow metal cylinder that surrounded the pin and depressed the locking tabs. Maybe research those for removing the nylon standoffs on your motherboard. They sure made quick work of removing the connector pins. Really like your shows. Cheers
Just one note on running a rechargeable battery (or 3 or 4 AA or AAA alkaline batteries). If the battery(ies) leak, and the leakage isn't detected soon enough, the corrosion will creep up the cables until it reaches the motherboard. One of my 386 boards got damaged this way a decade ago, and I wasn't able to repair it yet. It caused a lot of damage around the external battery connector, eating away traces and vias. The battery encasing was fixed to the bottom of the PC case. Two years ago, the same happened to one of my 486. Fortunately, this time I found out before the motherboard was damaged, but the CD-ROM drive got rusty on the top (the AA batteries were fixed there with velcro). Since then, I've given up on using batteries that are prone to leakage, and I now resort now to CR2032.
Resistors limit current, not voltage. You can still overcharge a Lithium cell once the charging current decreases. They need a more sophisticated charging circuit.
@@nickwallette6201 ML2032 looks to be a better choice. I've purchased a few LIR2032 in the past; one of them had corrosion before being used by me (it was still in the sealed package). I've only installed one on my retro gear, on an Amiga 600 memory expansion, but I am considering removing it.
Love the channels. I recently found how to remove the plastic stand-offs without tools. Here goes; With one hand hold the stand-off from underneath the board applying a little pressure in the direction you want it to go (straight down). With the second hand use the tip of your finger or nail to push one side of the stand-off just in to the hole. Keep pressure on with first hand and twist slightly (optional) to ensure it doesn’t pop out again. You can now push on the other half of the sand-off with your finger tip and it should just push through easily.
It's amazing how many computerized devices those ni-cads can be in. I just had to repair a programable computer controlled pannel saw at work that was made in 1982. It had a bigger ni-cad battery in a black case soldered onto its main logic board. That side of its logic board was destroyed. However we were lucky and that side of the board doesn't have much on it. I wound up relocating the positive and negative for the battery elsewhere on the board. I attached wires to the board and located a 3.6v ni-cad battery pack in the bottom of the case.
Hi Adrian, Love your pc repairs! I have that exact board except that 4 SIPP slots were added. (Slightly newer version) I'm glad you got it working. The board maxes out at 4mb. You can use either the section with 8 chips (1mb) or the 36 chips (up to 4mb). One of my favorite boards.🙂
To remove the plastic stand-offs, I found an arrow shaft that was just the right size, cut a length I was confortable working with and voilà! A small socket from a cheap kit would also work, but I found the arrow shaft to work better.
I should say it is NOT exceptionally unlikely for a CR2032 to leak. But they don't generally leak with a lot of pressure, meaning the corrosive contents are mostly confined to the battery holder itself. I've particularly had this happen with forgotten car fobs that hung on the wall for years. Also after you metal-fatigue the excess wire off your bodges, you should visit the solder joint one more time because you've introduced stresses and re-flowing will even them out. There's also something very 80s about having 5 identical looking VLSI chips and for them to be in all four possible orientations. :)
When I was a bench tech in the late 90s, I had a small piece of brass tubing that had the same inner diameter as a clearance hole for those sheet metal screws (I wanna say 3.5-4 mm). I'd jam the tube over the tip of the plastic standoffs, which squeezed the clippy bits so I could just yank them out from the back. For the ones that were oversize, I just cut them off with side cutters.
you spend a Friday night in the basement fixing a 286 board ..I spent Saturday restoring a 2007 laptop ... taking it back to its origins with Vista Home Premium.... oh the joy
I got anxiety watching the motherboard get drummed on, played like a piano, and bounced up and down like a trashcan lid while running lol. Joking aside, I cleaned off a 286 board too with vinegar, having corrosion from a battery. That got very active though, and was quick to dissolve the crust. No traces broken, just exposed, cleaned and sealed it with green nail polish, akin to the trace colour. Good video, yes sir 👍🙂
Just a friendly advice on flux/rosin. I actually prefer to use rosin due to it being less health hazardous. If and only if the application calls for a good flux, I recommend Amtech NC-559, a clean flux that also dose it's business right, but use it with caution and definitely not without a smoke absorber that preferably exhausts outside... nasty stuff these fluxes. Thank you for the wonderful content and keep 'em old computers alive!
I have the same board, with the same problem of course. I'll have to give it another go at getting it working, that trace under the keyboard port had me puzzled, too
Great introduction to a variety of "bodge" wires or what I used to call "kludges". This was very instructive. I picked up a lot of tips. Subscribed and Alerted!
Nice repair! I had the same issue with my deltalab super timeline rack delay. I made a repair video about it on my channel. The NiCad leaked on the board. I had to clean the board with sandpaper.
Great repair, I wish the same could be said for my old 486 board which I believe was multi-layer. I really should have kept that instead of stripping parts off, might have been able to fix it some day. Was the board in my first PC.
I had various motherboards from that era, and even after that. But I never had to deal with battery leaks. My first 286 machine had a separate battery pack with 4 AA batteries in a holder. Then it was updated with a 386 that used the same battery pack. Then upgraded to a board with an AMD K5 CPU,with a CR2032. That sucked, because it froze a lot. But no leaking stuff ever since. My "new" old machines that I got recently, had Dallas chip battery issues.
Adrian, try using LINESMAN Pliers to get those standoffs out - the flat surface of the bite face as well as the tip of the tool will allow you to near the Motherboard with the pliers to get the best bite on both tabs minimizing the chance of damage to the board. For extra insurance you could put some thin thermal pads or electrical tape at the end of the pliers to quell any chance of scratching the board.
hopefully many people can take some of these tips for bodge wires on battery damaged boards and take it on themselves to repair them. There is quite a lot of 486/386/286 boards out there that have trace damage that are for sale spares or repair
What helps with getting those nylon standoffs out is being able to turn them so both ears can be compressed at the same time. As for cleaning damaged traces, a sharp Xacto knife with the spatula profile is the best, as you can carefully scrape from side to side and minimize now much of the solder mask gets scratched up in the process.
For nylon standoffs, depending on the size, I’ve had luck with a 5/16” deep well socket. Just press it right over top all the way down and it will pinch the ears
The graphics card crash issue reminds me of using a Spectrum with a RAM expansion on the rear edge connector, where even something as simple as pressing a key could cause the expansion to wobble and the system to crash. The official "fix" given by Sinclair was to use a lot of blue tack to wedge it in place and stop it from moving. Never used the earlier machines, but I've been told they had the same issue.
I'm going through this nightmare with a Mac II board. No battery issues, just leaky smd caps. Replaced the caps. I've got it back to chiming but no video. There are so many tiny tightly packed traces that could be the issue. I need whatever that magnifier thing is you have. Or just send the whole mess to you if you're looking for another project haha
It's made by Andonstar .. I think it's the Andonstar AD409 but there are much cheaper ones which are still really good, just without the HDMI output and what not. And I'm definitely all full up on projects at the moment!! LOL!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Many thanks. I've gone for years without needing magnification but somewhere in the last year suddenly it got hard to see small things. Funny how age just flips switches on you sometimes. :) I'll check out that magnifier you mentioned!
Need a trigger warning and censor the evil word Varta 😉. Found out a couple of years ago that my poor Amiga 500 has suffered from some pretty bad electrolyte corrosion with many of the PCB tracks burnt away. Thankfully RUclips channels like this have given me the knowledge and confidence to one day attempt a self-repair, so cheers!
I've repaired many boards like this. You did just fine!. Its never pretty.. I like that you use nail polish (lacquer) to fix the jumpers in place. I've been using superglue. Just a tiny drop amount but once it goes off, its permanent!. Yeah getting solder to flow on old PCB tracks can be tricky, but pre-tinning the track should help before placing the jumper. All-in-all, good job!. Thanks for the video.
Those plastic case mount standoffs are indeed fiddly and tedious at times. I've used everything from needle nose pliers, nail clippers, melted Bic pen caps/bodies, screwdrivers... Although needle nose pliers can work (only by squeezing the middle or tip of the standoff, not down by the PCB) they're just too darn annoying to be worth using. I've found the best way for me is as follows: Press one tab in with a finger/thumbnail/screwdriver while pulling on it from below. The idea is to get the first tab to clear the PCB mounting hole, but don't pull to the point where the second tab mushrooms out. Push in the second tab in when the first one clears, as it should have a bit more room now with the first tab out of the way. Using that method, I can actually remove them by hand fairly easily and consistently without tools. Of course, YMMV depending on the size of the PCB holes.
If you happen to find somewhere Zaponlack - it is very nice substitution for solder mask. It is more resistant to acetone/benzene/toluene(toluol) than nail polish. Thanks a lot for your videos!
As far as recovering the traces/replacing solder mask, I think the ideal solution would be another color (unless you're trying to make it blend a bit better and sort of hide repairs). It'll make it clearer down the road what was repaired and possibly help identify future failures.
No-clean flux is actually harder to remove than normal flux. It dries harder and was originally designed to just be left on, but no one does that anymore. For hand-soldering, just go with rosin. You can search for "why clean no clean flux" and find a number of results, most of which are the same article reposted.
I love the fixing up thing when a Varta battery has leaked. Even more, I like some of the slightly mysterious things that do happen on your shows, even without such things where it would seem like there would be no easy way to know wat was going on. Hey...I tell you what though Adrian...is there any possbility at all of doing something at Halloween that would somehow involve the inexplicable stuff...just an idea there. Yeah - and I also know that I have to make my ZX81 better. Thank you for your work my friend.
Repairing a motherboard and having an adult beverage on a Friday night. Nothing bad can happen, right? 🤣🤣🤣 I can't count the number of those plastic standoffs I broke or cut in order to remove them.
POST: Power On Self Test The bad thing is: that is something that really something that doesn't work that well on earlier IBM PC Compatible, later ones have it implemented though.
Tip for getting out plastic stand-offs. Get a scrap telescopic ariel off a radio and make yourself a tool that slips over the standofff and presses it all together, mine works well.
![286 Board Restoration & Testing [Leaking Battery and Exploding Caps]](/img/1.gif)
POST stands for Power On Self Test. That plastic "straw" is the handle for plastic variable inductors, you can screw / unscrew the ferrous slugs in and out of inductors without affecting the magnetic field.
^^this
Approved🧐
A few more: Basic Input Output System (BIOS), Complimentary Metal Oxide Semiconductor (CMOS), Industry Standard Architecture (ISA), Peripheral Components Interconnect (PCI), and my personal favorite, Technology Without An Interesting Name (TWAIN).
Keep em coming. What is ide and sata?
@@user-wj9xq7ig2v Integrated Drive Electronics and Serial AT Attachment (AT as in IBM AT, which is"Advanced Technology"). And EIDE = Enhanced Integrated Drive Electronics, SCSI = Small Computer Systems Interface, RLL = Run-Length Limited (RLE = Run-Length Encoded), MFM = Modified Frequency Modulation, RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks, JBOD = Just a Bunch Of Disks, ATAPI = AT Attachment Packet Interface (usually used in reference to CD-ROM/RW drives).
POST stands for power-on self-test.
Love it!! I got a sneaky suspicion that more than one adult beverage was involved in the filming of this episode!! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@Adrian -- POST = Power On Self Test :)
Great video as usual, Adrian! If I may make two suggestions: if you sanded down a trace, it's always a good idea to re-tin it before applying a solder-mask (or nail polish, in your case) layer on top. When you sanded the trace you removed copper and increased the impedance of the trace, even if you still have continuity. A thin layer of tin applied on top should both prevent corrosion (even without the nail polish) and improve conductivity. The other suggestion is to use flux varnish instead of nail polish. Unlike the former, the latter won't take solder and needs to be removed with acetone in case future re-work is needed, which will damage both the solder mask and plastics around. If you re-tin the exposed copper, you don't even need anything else on top and can always re-work later.
Thanks for the tips!
@@adriansdigitalbasement this patch wires work .. It would be good practice for you with the the heat gun .. an the tin paste... instead of that "huge" solder iron that you already use well...
There aren't actually any acetone-sensitive plastics on the components soldered into the PCB, since PCBs can optionally undergo MEK-wash during manufacturing and that is so closely related to acetone that their material compatibility is essentially identical.
I'm not fond of flux varnish. Sometimes you have a product that has failed after a long time, you wash it and it's good again - why? Some sort of long term changes within the flux? Hygroscopic effect?
But you can also get a real soldermask material and a tiny little UV torch, so that's an option that exist, super inexpensive as well.
POST is Power On Self Test, IO Port 80 is the port. Though some BIOS use other ports as well.
Friends don't let friends drink and multimeter! ... Kidding, you're awesome Adrian. Love your repair vids.
Tip for removing those plastic stand-offs? Find the right socket from a small socket set where it will pinch the plastic arms and let you pull it out easily.
Sockets work good and the sections from an old telescoping antenna work good also.
Bic ballpoint with the ink part removed, but not the sort of shroud/tapered bit that centers it in the body. Just push it over and it should disengage but not go all the way down and instead push it out the backside
Another great choice is a connector pin removal tool, like those for AMP CPC (= Circular Plastic Connector), some Molex connectors or some Burndy connectors. (Burndy UTG connectors have later been made by FC, although I don't know who makes their pin removal tool) Their sizes vary, but some of them fit some of those plastic thingies just fine. They have an internal plunger to finish the job by pushing the plunger end after the plastic tongue is squeezed in.
Pair of sharp diagonals. Just clip off either side of board and throw in trash.
I have an assortment of hobby brass tubing. I just slide the tubing over the tabs and they come right out.
I enjoy watching a good ol' fashioned repair here on Adrian's channel!
For the stand-off's, I used to use a multi-bit screw driver, with no bits - the hole in the end was just big enough to push over it, and it would squeeze them closed, and I could just pull from the other side... or an old pen, or a straw!! :)
I use an old school white BIC pen with the ink removed from the blue tip. Just leave that middle piece on, fits right on the top of them, and they pull right out with ease.
I believe that red plastic straw is a nut starter. Every Heathkit I ever built came with one. A small 6-32 nut will friction fit in one end and a 4-40 in the other. It’s then very easy to get the nut into the right position and spin it onto the threads, especially if they’re inside a chassis or cabinet. I’ve still got several on my workbench because they’re so handy.
It comes in a tuner tool kit to turn pots or extend the other tools.
I used to remove the plastic standoffs with a nose plier pinching each wing with either side of the plier and using my other hand to pull while at the same time pushing with the pliers to make sure the standoff went through. It usually worked like a charm! Thanks for the great video Adrian!
What a great episode! I wish I had known back in the day all the things I do know now, when I had to send to recicle motherboards and other (now retro) hardware because of battery leakage and board damage. I don't know if them could have been saved, but I definitely would have tried.
Years ago when I was working in a computer shop I used to remove those standoffs like you did, with a needle nose plier. Although in my case if I had to spend more than a few seconds removing it I would just cut it off with a side cutter, since there are always plenty of spare standoffs lying around.
It's crazy what people are asking for a fully working XT or 286 these days.. You are doing good work by putting more of them out there.
To remove the stands you can use a Bic pen, it is the perfect size.
23:00 When working with parallel traces like that, If you stagger the placement of the beginning and end of your repairs they will be easier to work with. I would just run a proper Guage wire across tbh. To each their own 😊
Great tip!
Glad it didn't fall on deaf ears. 🙂
That staggering tip also works great if you are putting heat shrink tubing over solder connections on 2 or more wires on some type of harness. Keeps all the big wads from being beside each other.
Nice work! Great to see retro PC hardware getting some repair love.
As soon as Adrian said "I don't know what [POST] actually means" I could see everyone rushing to comment lol
I knew many others would've already said it. If I had looked through and nobody had said it somehow, then I would've.
#1 Glad to see you wearing the watch band. The red plastic "straw" is an extension tool for the other non conductive tools for adjusting ferret core inductors or pots.
You had the right idea you just need a smaller diameter tube to depress the locking tab on the stand offs.
I realized that about the tube afterwards. You slide it over the core and then it makes getting the tool into the right spot super easy. :)
I worked as an automotive technician for nearly 2 decades and automotive stuff uses some similar fasteners as the motherboard standoffs. What I used was a socket for nuts or bolts. If you have a small socket set, it’ll probably work great for this. If you put the appropriately sized socket over the fastener, then turn it, the smaller part of the hex in the socket will squeeze the plastic latches together, then you can pull it out from the back. Worth a try, it worked well for me.
You finally removed your ~RF~ shield!
You have deep respect from me for your repair efforts. It is a really fiddly and challenging task, and you did great.
You likely did better trace repair than I ever will accomplish, should I ever try this.
Every repair you make just reeks of care and respect for the computer. Really nice to watch.
I love seeing Thexter used as a test! My uncle worked on that while at Sierra. Such great memories playing that as a kid!
Another great video. When batteries leak the corrosion is also caused by the gas that is given off not just by battery fluid. If you put the battery in a container to help prevent corrosion make sure it's air tight. The only real way to prevent battery corrosion is to check your battery every now and again or remove it altogether if storing your PC.
I am at the 16:00 mark & I can't believe you haven't called it too much work for too little gain. I will keep watching, though.
Haha, i love the mild influence of the alcohol on this vid. Having doing some repair with a few beers on my system i can assure that you get funnier results and some very clever and unique ways to solve problems.
Oh, I'm happily not the only one who has noticed it.
Adrian had a good time and we with him 😋
So awesome to show up on RUclips at the end of the day and find that you've uploaded a new video. I actually watch them as I pass out then again the next day to see what I missed.
That was fun! Another old motherboard saved from being e-waste.
The first computer I ever bought with my own money was a 386-DX 25MHz. Bought it in April of 1989. And it had that exact video card in it. 🙂 Man, I can't believe how long ago that was now.
To answer your question:
POST = Power On Self Test
I guess I do remember some stuff from working tech support.
Those AT/286 style motherboard standoffs still have a use in 2022! Some modern MSI motherboards designed with an additional mounting hole which isn't part of the typical ATX specification. Remove the bottom nub of the standoff with side cutters and you end up with a flat plastic part you can use on such an MSI board to support the motherboard. No metal or case mounting point needed! 😀
Oh wow! Haha. I've cut the nub off a bunch of times for that purpose -- although nor I use the little standoffs which are more like "couplers" that don't have the screw part that would go into the case. Takes a little longer to put in, but a whole lot less frustrating :-)
Steven have repair 2 of this boards.
He placed a extern battery holder with batterij and work with bud wires
Its nice to see that this board is repaired
Great video! And nice hair cut 💇♂️. I ask myself now how many ppl are watching the video till the real end after the outro. 😅
I have a Schneider EuroPC 8088 that i had repaired 2 years ago. I take 2 years to repair. Video chip replaced , keyoard membrane cloned on pcb designed by me. Hard work, some money spended but its working.
My favorite part of your channel is when you say "without further ado" there is more ado in the form of a jam track.
POST is short for Power-On Self-Test. It is one of those acronyms that you kind of feel that you could have guessed it, once you know what it stands for, but you never did, or at least that is how younger me felt like, when I first looked it up. :-D
Also fun fact, originally when Turbo button become a thing, it was actually there for compatibility mode with older stuff and therefore turbo on meant slow mode and off meant fast mode. But due to this causing a lot of confusion, eventually it got flipped around, so turbo on became fast mode. Quite a lot of people were turning turbo on thinking it was fast mode. :-D At least if memory serves.
When I worked PC repair we just used side cutters to remove/destroy the standoffs. Then fitted new ones as needed.
Hehe liked the easter egg ending there.
I like to wash the area with WD-40 after the vinegar to dissolve all the neutralized acid. Wash it off with IPA afterwards and the area is nice and clean.
I gave it a good wash with soap, water and a brush. Once it's dry, I give it a sniff test to make sure nothing remains. I'm no dog but the smell of vinegar is quite off-putting, I it's a really strong smell for me.
Hi Adrian, nice video. recommend when you repair tracks:. 1. add flux and solder to track before adding botch wire. So flux, solder add, move solder back and forth on the track to make proper contact (and clean) and pre-tinning. then new flux add and finally solder on botch wire.
Best of luck 😊
Standoff removal trick from the original Greybeards of the 70s/80s...
Pilfer nearest disposable removable cap-with-pocket-clip type Bic ballpoint pen. Remove and discard said cap, grab the metal tapered piece at the functional end with some grippy jaw pliers, or a bench vise, pull out the insert via the metal part, but don't separate the colored plastic "hollow truncated frustum" (nosecone?) from the white body tube... Then shove the hole where the insert was formerly held in place at the "business end" over the "wings" of the standoff that stick out to retain the standoffs in the holes, the diameter and length of the hole at the end is dead-nuts tight enough to collapse the wings enough to pass through the hold but not get stuck in the pen in the process... Think of the same kinda technique as a "molex pin removal tool" for 4-pin drive connectors...
Hi Adrian, when I was in the aeronautics industry we had tools for releasing the pins from Molex and military connectors that were just a plastic handle with a thin hollow metal cylinder that surrounded the pin and depressed the locking tabs. Maybe research those for removing the nylon standoffs on your motherboard. They sure made quick work of removing the connector pins. Really like your shows. Cheers
Just one note on running a rechargeable battery (or 3 or 4 AA or AAA alkaline batteries).
If the battery(ies) leak, and the leakage isn't detected soon enough, the corrosion will creep up the cables until it reaches the motherboard.
One of my 386 boards got damaged this way a decade ago, and I wasn't able to repair it yet. It caused a lot of damage around the external battery connector, eating away traces and vias. The battery encasing was fixed to the bottom of the PC case.
Two years ago, the same happened to one of my 486. Fortunately, this time I found out before the motherboard was damaged, but the CD-ROM drive got rusty on the top (the AA batteries were fixed there with velcro).
Since then, I've given up on using batteries that are prone to leakage, and I now resort now to CR2032.
I just recently discovered rechargeable Lithium-Ion 2032's. May need to add a resistor in series to keep the charging voltage under 4.2v.
@@Peter.Sky.Walker That's one possible solution, the other is just to use a diode and a regular CR2032.
Resistors limit current, not voltage. You can still overcharge a Lithium cell once the charging current decreases. They need a more sophisticated charging circuit.
@@nickwallette6201 ML2032 looks to be a better choice.
I've purchased a few LIR2032 in the past; one of them had corrosion before being used by me (it was still in the sealed package).
I've only installed one on my retro gear, on an Amiga 600 memory expansion, but I am considering removing it.
Love the channels. I recently found how to remove the plastic stand-offs without tools. Here goes;
With one hand hold the stand-off from underneath the board applying a little pressure in the direction you want it to go (straight down).
With the second hand use the tip of your finger or nail to push one side of the stand-off just in to the hole. Keep pressure on with first hand and twist slightly (optional) to ensure it doesn’t pop out again. You can now push on the other half of the sand-off with your finger tip and it should just push through easily.
Saturday Night : Gin Tonic & Adrian Black's video. Great!!!
For those plastic pegs, I saw Phil's computer lab use a Bic pen without the "lead", it was an eureka moment for me!
It's amazing how many computerized devices those ni-cads can be in. I just had to repair a programable computer controlled pannel saw at work that was made in 1982. It had a bigger ni-cad battery in a black case soldered onto its main logic board. That side of its logic board was destroyed. However we were lucky and that side of the board doesn't have much on it. I wound up relocating the positive and negative for the battery elsewhere on the board. I attached wires to the board and located a 3.6v ni-cad battery pack in the bottom of the case.
Hi Adrian,
Love your pc repairs! I have that exact board except that 4 SIPP slots were added. (Slightly newer version) I'm glad you got it working. The board maxes out at 4mb. You can use either the section with 8 chips (1mb) or the 36 chips (up to 4mb). One of my favorite boards.🙂
Is it just me or Adrian was a bit wasted from that Vodka in this video :D
Glad I’m not the only one. Definitely a different Adrian on this video.
POST = Power On Self Test. Great video!
To remove the plastic stand-offs, I found an arrow shaft that was just the right size, cut a length I was confortable working with and voilà! A small socket from a cheap kit would also work, but I found the arrow shaft to work better.
A small socket that you use for metal standoffs should be about the right size.
I should say it is NOT exceptionally unlikely for a CR2032 to leak. But they don't generally leak with a lot of pressure, meaning the corrosive contents are mostly confined to the battery holder itself. I've particularly had this happen with forgotten car fobs that hung on the wall for years.
Also after you metal-fatigue the excess wire off your bodges, you should visit the solder joint one more time because you've introduced stresses and re-flowing will even them out.
There's also something very 80s about having 5 identical looking VLSI chips and for them to be in all four possible orientations. :)
When I was a bench tech in the late 90s, I had a small piece of brass tubing that had the same inner diameter as a clearance hole for those sheet metal screws (I wanna say 3.5-4 mm). I'd jam the tube over the tip of the plastic standoffs, which squeezed the clippy bits so I could just yank them out from the back. For the ones that were oversize, I just cut them off with side cutters.
you spend a Friday night in the basement fixing a 286 board ..I spent Saturday restoring a 2007 laptop ... taking it back to its origins with Vista Home Premium.... oh the joy
I got anxiety watching the motherboard get drummed on, played like a piano, and bounced up and down like a trashcan lid while running lol.
Joking aside, I cleaned off a 286 board too with vinegar, having corrosion from a battery. That got very active though, and was quick to dissolve the crust. No traces broken, just exposed, cleaned and sealed it with green nail polish, akin to the trace colour. Good video, yes sir 👍🙂
Just a friendly advice on flux/rosin. I actually prefer to use rosin due to it being less health hazardous. If and only if the application calls for a good flux, I recommend Amtech NC-559, a clean flux that also dose it's business right, but use it with caution and definitely not without a smoke absorber that preferably exhausts outside... nasty stuff these fluxes. Thank you for the wonderful content and keep 'em old computers alive!
I have the same board, with the same problem of course. I'll have to give it another go at getting it working, that trace under the keyboard port had me puzzled, too
Thank you Adrian another great episode.
Great introduction to a variety of "bodge" wires or what I used to call "kludges". This was very instructive. I picked up a lot of tips. Subscribed and Alerted!
Ah the mighty 286. I’m old enough to know the excitement of getting a PC/XT in the office. One. Shared between 32 staff.
That plastic toothed straw is an extension for turning your pot adjustment tools!
Nice repair! I had the same issue with my deltalab super timeline rack delay. I made a repair video about it on my channel. The NiCad leaked on the board. I had to clean the board with sandpaper.
Great repair, I wish the same could be said for my old 486 board which I believe was multi-layer. I really should have kept that instead of stripping parts off, might have been able to fix it some day. Was the board in my first PC.
I had various motherboards from that era, and even after that. But I never had to deal with battery leaks. My first 286 machine had a separate battery pack with 4 AA batteries in a holder. Then it was updated with a 386 that used the same battery pack. Then upgraded to a board with an AMD K5 CPU,with a CR2032. That sucked, because it froze a lot. But no leaking stuff ever since. My "new" old machines that I got recently, had Dallas chip battery issues.
Found the info on how batteries leak in the intro very interesting
Adrian, try using LINESMAN Pliers to get those standoffs out - the flat surface of the bite face as well as the tip of the tool will allow you to near the Motherboard with the pliers to get the best bite on both tabs minimizing the chance of damage to the board. For extra insurance you could put some thin thermal pads or electrical tape at the end of the pliers to quell any chance of scratching the board.
hopefully many people can take some of these tips for bodge wires on battery damaged boards and take it on themselves to repair them. There is quite a lot of 486/386/286 boards out there that have trace damage that are for sale spares or repair
What helps with getting those nylon standoffs out is being able to turn them so both ears can be compressed at the same time. As for cleaning damaged traces, a sharp Xacto knife with the spatula profile is the best, as you can carefully scrape from side to side and minimize now much of the solder mask gets scratched up in the process.
This video was IMMENSELY helpful! Thanks so much!
Seems like a pretty nice motherboard, definitely worth saving
Adrian, get yourself a TS-100 iron. You'll love it. Its now my favorite iron and I work on 0402 pitch all day
For nylon standoffs, depending on the size, I’ve had luck with a 5/16” deep well socket. Just press it right over top all the way down and it will pinch the ears
I had forgotten all about those plastic standoff clips, and now I remember how much I hated them. Haha.
Great job, Adrian!
Damn that's a fast 286! OS/2 1.3 dude! Nice work!
The graphics card crash issue reminds me of using a Spectrum with a RAM expansion on the rear edge connector, where even something as simple as pressing a key could cause the expansion to wobble and the system to crash. The official "fix" given by Sinclair was to use a lot of blue tack to wedge it in place and stop it from moving.
Never used the earlier machines, but I've been told they had the same issue.
Great vid and POST is power on self test 👍
I'm going through this nightmare with a Mac II board. No battery issues, just leaky smd caps. Replaced the caps. I've got it back to chiming but no video. There are so many tiny tightly packed traces that could be the issue. I need whatever that magnifier thing is you have. Or just send the whole mess to you if you're looking for another project haha
It's made by Andonstar .. I think it's the Andonstar AD409 but there are much cheaper ones which are still really good, just without the HDMI output and what not.
And I'm definitely all full up on projects at the moment!! LOL!
@@adriansdigitalbasement Many thanks. I've gone for years without needing magnification but somewhere in the last year suddenly it got hard to see small things. Funny how age just flips switches on you sometimes. :) I'll check out that magnifier you mentioned!
Need a trigger warning and censor the evil word Varta 😉. Found out a couple of years ago that my poor Amiga 500 has suffered from some pretty bad electrolyte corrosion with many of the PCB tracks burnt away. Thankfully RUclips channels like this have given me the knowledge and confidence to one day attempt a self-repair, so cheers!
I need to get some of those sanding pens for myself
I've repaired many boards like this. You did just fine!. Its never pretty.. I like that you use nail polish (lacquer) to fix the jumpers in place. I've been using superglue. Just a tiny drop amount but once it goes off, its permanent!. Yeah getting solder to flow on old PCB tracks can be tricky, but pre-tinning the track should help before placing the jumper. All-in-all, good job!. Thanks for the video.
Nice fix, Adrian.
Those plastic case mount standoffs are indeed fiddly and tedious at times. I've used everything from needle nose pliers, nail clippers, melted Bic pen caps/bodies, screwdrivers... Although needle nose pliers can work (only by squeezing the middle or tip of the standoff, not down by the PCB) they're just too darn annoying to be worth using.
I've found the best way for me is as follows: Press one tab in with a finger/thumbnail/screwdriver while pulling on it from below. The idea is to get the first tab to clear the PCB mounting hole, but don't pull to the point where the second tab mushrooms out. Push in the second tab in when the first one clears, as it should have a bit more room now with the first tab out of the way. Using that method, I can actually remove them by hand fairly easily and consistently without tools. Of course, YMMV depending on the size of the PCB holes.
Your amazing Adrian. Great stuff.
I remember talking apart a pen to get the perfect sized tool to remove those stand offs.
Nice job. Adrian.
If you happen to find somewhere Zaponlack - it is very nice substitution for solder mask. It is more resistant to acetone/benzene/toluene(toluol) than nail polish.
Thanks a lot for your videos!
In the past I've used small brass tubing to compress the fingers on those plastic stand offs.
Wow, you use the same method that I do to remove the standoffs, Adrian! I was about to comment with my method, and you used it 🤣
As far as recovering the traces/replacing solder mask, I think the ideal solution would be another color (unless you're trying to make it blend a bit better and sort of hide repairs). It'll make it clearer down the road what was repaired and possibly help identify future failures.
Good job! It would be great if you also put a CR2032 replacement battery in it (of course together with the diode to block recharge). Thanks Adrian!
Back in the day I used to feel guilty about not wearing an anti-static wrist strap. :D
No-clean flux is actually harder to remove than normal flux. It dries harder and was originally designed to just be left on, but no one does that anymore. For hand-soldering, just go with rosin.
You can search for "why clean no clean flux" and find a number of results, most of which are the same article reposted.
I love the fixing up thing when a Varta battery has leaked. Even more, I like some of the slightly mysterious things that do happen on your shows, even without such things where it would seem like there would be no easy way to know wat was going on. Hey...I tell you what though Adrian...is there any possbility at all of doing something at Halloween that would somehow involve the inexplicable stuff...just an idea there. Yeah - and I also know that I have to make my ZX81 better. Thank you for your work my friend.
lovely 286, and great fixing :) accidentially i have the same cheap tiny kb for fixing, i think its from perixx. Thanks for the great video.
Repairing a motherboard and having an adult beverage on a Friday night. Nothing bad can happen, right? 🤣🤣🤣
I can't count the number of those plastic standoffs I broke or cut in order to remove them.
In England we have Postcodes which are the same as your ZIP codes so Postcodes as well as postcards are related over here.
POST: Power On Self Test
The bad thing is: that is something that really something that doesn't work that well on earlier IBM PC Compatible, later ones have it implemented though.
Flopping around in the breeze again, and that's just what we like!
Tip for getting out plastic stand-offs. Get a scrap telescopic ariel off a radio and make yourself a tool that slips over the standofff and presses it all together, mine works well.
Thanks Adrian 😊, and cheers