Uncovering the Mystery of Quatrevelo's Winter Instability!
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- There's something going on at the rear end of a Quatrevelo when riding on snowy roads in winter. Let's find out why it feels so unstable.
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***** Chapters: *****
0:00 Intro
0:24 What the rear wheels are doing?
1:27 Unsprung mass
2:20 Tyres
2:56 Track width
3:22 Too fast?
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Hello Saukki. Reduce the tire air pressure bellow 2,5 bar on all four wheels in such winterly acy-frosty conditions. Your electro assist will cash up the additional load and I'm not even sure you will notice the difference in the additional batary discharge at all. Any how I have 20 inch tires on my Gekko and I do feel positive difference while driwing in snowy conditions when I reduce the pressure from 3 bar down to 2,5 or even 2.2. And althoug one will expect much higher rolling resistance, there is no real point to keep the pressure high - the snow will not allow to drive fast any how. But the lower tire pressure dempents the icy bombs considerably and I plow my self less deep in to the snow so it feels les dificult to pedal.
This is one example of where we get the expression 'The tail wagging the dog'...
Velo designers have fallen to the same trap as diamond frame bike companies that racing and speed are the paramount design criteria for cycles and velomobiles. I ride for transportation which means to get my appointments I will have to ride through bad weather and less that perfectly flat streets. I would like to see velomobiles a couple more inches off the ground, generous cockpits, and able to carry more weight. In addition have a way to secure the velomobile while parked. I ride my recumbent tadpole trike during the winter in Southern Wisconsin, USA (Great Lakes region). No issues when I put sand bags in my panniers.
One velombile handles tires up to 60mm wide and has fully independent suspension and traction control. Podbike FRIKAR was designed from the start for all year use in Nordic countries. It is made for people not used to regular velomobiles so it is more spaceous inside with room for adult and a child. That also means it is heavier and slower than Quattrovelo etc. It is expensive but comes with EU-legal electric assist, four wheel disc brakes and full light system as standard.
Good observation with the more narrow track of the rear axle. It's likely for better aerodynamics but keeping tires in the same track as the front help traction and stability considerably.
This has been my frustration with winter riding in Minnesota this year. We also have quite a lot of snow and ice. Velomobile designers just don’t think of designing for us that have bad winters and still want to ride our Velomobiles. Not enough room for wide tires that we need to for traction. I think it would be very interesting to have a velomobile design with four wheels that had 700C rear wheels and larger front wheel wells for wide 20” tires. If they can design the Alpha 9 for the very small number of very tall people, why not a winter velomobile for the very small number of us that have a lot of snow and bad winter conditions?
I guess there are tall people among the velomobile designers, but they don’t have winter. 🤷♂️
I don't disagree with your views, but I suspect it's a question of numbers of riders continuing with their velomobiles in snow. I think this looks like a video series for Saukki to create: How to design a true 4 season velomobile!😁
@@TheVelomobileChannel Daniel Fenn lives in the foothills of the alps. They get winter there, but not like in Finland or Minnesota, USA. If I were ever going to build another velomobile, I would build 4 wheeler with room for wider tires, but I promised myself I would only build the one velomobile. It is too much.
As goes for mud, snow would not suit wider tyres as they would slide all over the place on it. On any vehicle, narrow tyres for mud and snow, wide for sand.
@@TheVelomobileChannel I'm about to pick my QV+ up from Theo and I'm just happy I got 4 tires under me ...
are there any more disadvantages to the different track sizes?
was it just designed for aerodynamics?
I wonder if the rear mass can be felt using cobble stones. I ride daily on just a few meters when turning into the road to work, this is at the bottom of a hill, and while I do turn somewhat slower than on asphalt because I can feel the rear move it does not scare me.
As for the snow tracks, no I do not believe that hypothesis, because if the snow is soft enough for the front wheels to make tracks, it is also soft enough for the rear wheels to re-make tracks.
What pressures are in your rear tyres? Have you tried dropping the pressures of the rears to 25-30 psi and see what happens? I think on rougher surfaces you'll get more constant traction from the extra suspension a soft tyre gives and a slightly larger contact area.
I pump the rear tyres to 3 bar (that’s the minimum pressure written on the tyre sidewall), but it’s actually closer to 2,5 bar, because it’s quite long time since I last time checked the pressure.
Katanga recently release information on their VM45 project and show how would their rear suspension work. Their went for the Chapman strut desighn and i was wondering why did they for it and this video actually explain why.
Its obvios Velomobiles are not made for this kind of condition and should not be used in winter but if its need to be done QV looks like a best candidate to fullfit function except it also have problem of itself. This solution of rear suspension is light so it save weight and weight is first thing velomobile desighners try to reduce to minimum.
What pressure do you use in the suspensions-ballons? I have 5 bar and it works fine.
I have 5 bars as well.
The item of ''Bounce'' you have designed wrong.
First of all it is not about the rear wheels but about the front wheels. I also sometimes cycle my rear wheel over a stone and then the suspension works too, that is not bouncing.
It is at the front and it has 1/4 to do with the suspension.1/4 with the hardness of the tires and 1/4 with own power transfer. And finally 1/4 to do with the body ON THE FRONT.
The jumping and bouncing is due to Human-Power.
That was very interesting Saukki. Do you think your old Quest would be better in these conditions?
No. Only one wheel bouncing at the rear sounds pretty dangerous. If that only wheel looses grip, you might end up crashing. QV has two rear wheels, so if one wheel looses grip, there’s still the another one providing stability.
@@TheVelomobileChannel Yes, that does make sense, thanks.
There is a new 20" winter tyre on the market now. It's made in a place called "Finland" ;) It's the Suomi Ruota 47*406. Unfortunately it's to wide for the front wheels on my Orca. It just fits on the rear wheel, but when riding home from my weekly grocery shopping, the velo is too heavy, and the studs carve into velo, especially when riding over bumps. Schwalbe Winter is is made in both 42 and 47mm, but the narrower version can be hard to find. Anyway, they are perfect for Swedish mixed winter riding on ice, snow and tarmac. A narrow winter tyre is better when riding on snow, as it cuts easier through the snow to get a grip on the solid ground. I've heard that is what rally drivers use on snow.
Oh! I haven’t noticed Suomi Tyres has nowdays 20” winter tyres 😮
I have to test them 🤔
@@TheVelomobileChannel Can you fit them? They seem a bit higher than most 47mm tyres, since the studs protrude a bit above the thick tread.
It still looks better than a two wheel bike :-)
toivottavasti tän valmistajat näkee tän videon ja kehittelee paremman tuotteen. 🙂
Ainahan näissä on jotain parannettavaa. Toisaalta tuotekehittelyä tapahtuu koko ajan ja uudet mallit on aina edeltäjiään parempia. Tosin talviajoon eivät hirveästi ole panostaneet, kun ei siellä etelässä mitään talvea edes ole 🤷♂️
@@TheVelomobileChannel , sounds like a 2023 Project: Design a true 4 season velomobile!😉
@@leohorishny9561 My thought as well after riding my Alleweder for 7 years in snow, hail, and crashing it due to improper handling. So my wife and I started a company and made a more practical velomobile. Our velombile handles tires up to 60mm wide and has fully independent suspension and traction control. Podbike FRIKAR was designed from the start for all year use in Nordic countries. It is made for people not used to regular velomobiles so it is more spaceous inside with room for adult and a child. That also means it is heavier and slower than Quattrovelo etc. It is expensive but comes with EU-legal electric assist, four wheel disc brakes and full light system as standard.
this cant be the future , it looks so primitive the velomobile
Maybe you should start a company making fat-tire velomobiles. Clearly these Dutch machines are not suitable for proper winter, man. Indiegogo, I will support you :)