The two types are different in their resonant behaviour. Straight arms will have one major resonance node, ‘S’ arms have a more diffuse array of resonances. As a rule of thumb,you can expect a straight arm to have a bold punchy sound, and ’S’ arms to be softer and warmer
True, there may be some slight differences as you say, but mostly my video was to show there is no difference in tracking or alignment. There will always be differences in arm design and all of their aspects.
@@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrr Would it be going too far to say (based on the resonance differences that you pointed out between the two types of arms) that 'S' type arms will soften up or even mask, to some degree, bright and revealing cartridges? While straight arms will permit more of a cartridges (bright and revealing ones as well as others) inherent sound signature to be heard?
As you point out, there is essentially no difference in the tracking geometry, but S arms generally have a detachable head shell while straight arms usually have the head shell fixed. There are exceptions to both, but the fixed head shell makes for a more rigid mechanical platform for the cartridge which can improve detail retrieval. Harder to change and align cartridges though.
Great video! As an artist I just wanted to mention the subjective nature. Some may relate to a certain style from childhood or just prefer the look of one over the other. Curves can have elegance to stand out, while straight lines are more modest for function.
I think mostly Technics and others who created the S-arm had two goals in mind: 1) easily swappable headshell, 2) get the arm out of the way. If you think about it, it does not have to go down quite as far since it takes that early turn.
Another fantastic video. Great explanation of a topic that some find difficult to understand. When I replaced my M3D’s tonearm, I put in another Technics arm with KAB upgrades. Besides the surgical tubing to dampen the arm, I also separated the new Cardas wires by putting each through PTFE tubing. (The same I use on capacitor or resistor leads when hand wiring a piece of gear) My thought behind it was that it’s not good to have say an interconnect running parallel to a power cord, so separating the tonearm wires as much as possible couldn’t hurt… Thanks again, man! 🔊😊🎶
I think people get confused because of some of the DJ turntables that use underhung straight arms with no offset angle, like the Stanton STR8. These arms have terrible tracking angle error, but are made this way for turntablists to minimize skipping when spinning the record backwards.
Was out in my shed the other day and unearthed my sl-l1. Haven't had a chance to plug it in yet. Anyway you can do a quick maintenance video on one of these?
Yamaha's highest end turntable today has straight tonearm with no offset angles where you attach the cartridge. That's very different and I wonder why...
Most S arms are high to medium compliance. The weight or mass of the cart has more to do with the compatibility of compliance rather than the actual shape of the arm.
I just wish that this was easily customizable, instead of having to choose a turntable based on tonearm type. Having to rewire cartridges to a given arm or headshell (coming from S-shaped ones) is just a pain, and buying one in and modifying your turntable is pretty costly just to avoid having to redo your cartridge installation.
There are some vintage Denon tables that had this feature, the tonearm tube was removeable and could be configured with a straight or S-shaped tube to match your preference. Probably some other brands that did this but Denon is the first that comes to mind.
I wanted to do a video on it, but mostly it is the removal of the Technics tonearm that is the most difficult and there are a few already out there. Mounting the RB250 was easy, but I did have to cut out some of the rubbery bottom to accommodate the bottom of the tonearm since it is not quite centered, that is about the only odd thing, then it is just reassembly of the bottom plate. Just follow these instructions - www.originlive.com/images/pdfs/Instruction-Manuals/Technics-Owner-Manuals/Arm-Board-Fitting.pdf
@@stereoazimuth so is there an improvement in sound now you’ve put the Rega arm on as I’ve heard lots of people say the arm on the Technics is the weak link
@@colinhathaway9493 It is an improvement for sure. Although I did upgrade the tonearm wire and my RB250 has the upgraded Mitchell underslung counterweight, which also are attributing factors. However, it does track extremely well and an improvement overall. The tonearm wire is one big weak link in all SL-1200's below the MK5.
@@stereoazimuth this is a project that might be more long term. My main turntable is an Avid Diva ll SP with a Michell Technoarm and Dynavector xx2 mk2 cartridge but the arm is the slight weak link so I’m replacing it in the next 12 months so I might wait and put the Technoarm and the technics instead of the Rega. The Technoarm is basically a highly modified Rega RB250
The main difference between these two particular arms being discussed is that the Rega arm was specially developed as a low resonance single casting, where the other is a conventional bent tube stuck in a mounting , where the bend is thought to help dampen any bell like tube resonances , back in the days when precision manufacturing was more difficult , and stamping out a bent tube was easily repeatable and valid for the use.
I think whatever tracking or damping advantages for S-arms are just a bonus. I think they were just trying to have a tonearm with easily swappable head shells and getting the tonearm out of the way to make the turntable slightly more compact.
@@stereoazimuth Não disse isso, ou disse?! Até porque o que eu disse, não é verdade! Claro que não, nem todos são engenheiros, sei bem, mas tu picaste-te com alguma coisa? Será que foi numa agulha, e era Moving coil, ou Moving magnet?
wandering presentatation....vague....RB200 ea japaee-ssuurced (Lustre clone?). Rega concluded more profiable to make their ow.n...straight....the probable reasons. bending tube to a S, tricky, costs. grace G707 Quadmaster i nice straight vintage arm((superb bearings- if mint) otherherwise J and S hape for home use, work well for me.I look for vrsatility - - MM and MC /weight cartridge us - no fusiness, in addition to impact on sound. in analog/vinyl audio, everyhing affects everyhing. means you can tune sound to your taste, but akes time.
I was taught/learned that the ultimate tonearm would be defined as an infinitely rigid nothing. The closest tonearm I'm aware of that meets that definition is a straight arm made of tapered carbon fiber called the Black Widow by Infinity. At stylus, it has an effective mass of a mere 3 grams. If anyone here knows of a lighter high compliance arm I would love to hear about it.
The two types are different in their resonant behaviour. Straight arms will have one major resonance node, ‘S’ arms have a more diffuse array of resonances. As a rule of thumb,you can expect a straight arm to have a bold punchy sound, and ’S’ arms to be softer and warmer
True, there may be some slight differences as you say, but mostly my video was to show there is no difference in tracking or alignment. There will always be differences in arm design and all of their aspects.
Bullshit!
@@len9518
Not at all. Hi-Fi World magazine regularly measured tonearms with an accelerometer and acquired consistent data over several years
@@Grrrr3FKAGrrrrGrrrrGrrrr
Would it be going too far to say (based on the resonance differences that you pointed out between the two types of arms) that 'S' type arms will soften up or even mask, to some degree, bright and revealing cartridges? While straight arms will permit more of a cartridges (bright and revealing ones as well as others) inherent sound signature to be heard?
Thank you for posting this. I had always wondered about the geometry. It makes complete sense.
As you point out, there is essentially no difference in the tracking geometry, but S arms generally have a detachable head shell while straight arms usually have the head shell fixed. There are exceptions to both, but the fixed head shell makes for a more rigid mechanical platform for the cartridge which can improve detail retrieval. Harder to change and align cartridges though.
I do agree that S-arms make it easier to have removable head shells as I think that was one of the design goals.
Should make no difference if properly implemented. All that matters, is that the cartridge is at the proper angle to the groove.
Great video! As an artist I just wanted to mention the subjective nature. Some may relate to a certain style from childhood or just prefer the look of one over the other. Curves can have elegance to stand out, while straight lines are more modest for function.
I think mostly Technics and others who created the S-arm had two goals in mind: 1) easily swappable headshell, 2) get the arm out of the way. If you think about it, it does not have to go down quite as far since it takes that early turn.
Another fantastic video. Great explanation of a topic that some find difficult to understand. When I replaced my M3D’s tonearm, I put in another Technics arm with KAB upgrades. Besides the surgical tubing to dampen the arm, I also separated the new Cardas wires by putting each through PTFE tubing. (The same I use on capacitor or resistor leads when hand wiring a piece of gear) My thought behind it was that it’s not good to have say an interconnect running parallel to a power cord, so separating the tonearm wires as much as possible couldn’t hurt… Thanks again, man! 🔊😊🎶
Cardas tonearm wire is very thin, so I can only see PTFE tubing helping in handing and as you say, not getting wrapped up together.
I think people get confused because of some of the DJ turntables that use underhung straight arms with no offset angle, like the Stanton STR8. These arms have terrible tracking angle error, but are made this way for turntablists to minimize skipping when spinning the record backwards.
Correct. They are "underslug" just like the cheaper turntables like the Audio Technica AT-LP60 and they do this for tonearm stablilty.
@@stereoazimuththe LP60 has a fixed cartridge, but the cartridge is offset and has overhang
Thanks for clarifying this, my friend!
Got a 1600 mk2 with S arm & MA1 with straight arm. Like both😊
Was out in my shed the other day and unearthed my sl-l1. Haven't had a chance to plug it in yet. Anyway you can do a quick maintenance video on one of these?
An s arm rides over an uneven record compared to a straight arm , apparently.
I think that just demonstrates how good the gimbal is on the Technics arm. It may add some tracking advantages, but that would need to be tested.
Most Tonearms I have seen are 222mm. It just happens to be the standard size for a normal arm.
Very interesting. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Yamaha's highest end turntable today has straight tonearm with no offset angles where you attach the cartridge. That's very different and I wonder why...
I was always told that a "S" arm was used for heavier carts. Chek it out.
Most S arms are high to medium compliance. The weight or mass of the cart has more to do with the compatibility of compliance rather than the actual shape of the arm.
Marketing, 70s 80s people thought S arms looked sexy, later on people liked straight
I just wish that this was easily customizable, instead of having to choose a turntable based on tonearm type. Having to rewire cartridges to a given arm or headshell (coming from S-shaped ones) is just a pain, and buying one in and modifying your turntable is pretty costly just to avoid having to redo your cartridge installation.
There are some vintage Denon tables that had this feature, the tonearm tube was removeable and could be configured with a straight or S-shaped tube to match your preference. Probably some other brands that did this but Denon is the first that comes to mind.
I have an SL1210 that I’m planning of putting an RB250 so would be interred in seeing more videos when you do the swap
I wanted to do a video on it, but mostly it is the removal of the Technics tonearm that is the most difficult and there are a few already out there. Mounting the RB250 was easy, but I did have to cut out some of the rubbery bottom to accommodate the bottom of the tonearm since it is not quite centered, that is about the only odd thing, then it is just reassembly of the bottom plate. Just follow these instructions - www.originlive.com/images/pdfs/Instruction-Manuals/Technics-Owner-Manuals/Arm-Board-Fitting.pdf
@@stereoazimuth so is there an improvement in sound now you’ve put the Rega arm on as I’ve heard lots of people say the arm on the Technics is the weak link
@@colinhathaway9493 It is an improvement for sure. Although I did upgrade the tonearm wire and my RB250 has the upgraded Mitchell underslung counterweight, which also are attributing factors. However, it does track extremely well and an improvement overall. The tonearm wire is one big weak link in all SL-1200's below the MK5.
@@stereoazimuth this is a project that might be more long term. My main turntable is an Avid Diva ll SP with a Michell Technoarm and Dynavector xx2 mk2 cartridge but the arm is the slight weak link so I’m replacing it in the next 12 months so I might wait and put the Technoarm and the technics instead of the Rega. The Technoarm is basically a highly modified Rega RB250
The RB330 arm is tappered and that in its self, due to its ridggidity outways any gain an S arm might have in tracking.
The main difference between these two particular arms being discussed is that the Rega arm was specially developed as a low resonance single casting, where the other is a conventional bent tube stuck in a mounting , where the bend is thought to help dampen any bell like tube resonances , back in the days when precision manufacturing was more difficult , and stamping out a bent tube was easily repeatable and valid for the use.
I think whatever tracking or damping advantages for S-arms are just a bonus. I think they were just trying to have a tonearm with easily swappable head shells and getting the tonearm out of the way to make the turntable slightly more compact.
Isto está cheio de engenheiros...!
Isso é uma coisa ruim?
@@stereoazimuth Não disse isso, ou disse?! Até porque o que eu disse, não é verdade! Claro que não, nem todos são engenheiros, sei bem, mas tu picaste-te com alguma coisa? Será que foi numa agulha, e era Moving coil, ou Moving magnet?
@@j0rg9humbertosp33 I use a Moving magnet. Ortofon 2M Blue.
More mass on s arm
Different resonance
Sounds different
Convince always has some compromises
Not always more mass.
@@stereoazimuth
But more mass by using the same materials because of the greater length and more mass at the outside of the platter.
t's not an s arm s it's a j ram
How about a Z shaped tonearm!!
What’z that?
wandering presentatation....vague....RB200 ea japaee-ssuurced (Lustre clone?). Rega concluded more profiable to make their ow.n...straight....the probable reasons. bending tube to a S, tricky, costs. grace G707 Quadmaster i nice straight vintage arm((superb bearings- if mint) otherherwise J and S hape for home use, work well for me.I look for vrsatility -
- MM and MC /weight cartridge us - no fusiness, in addition to impact on sound. in analog/vinyl audio, everyhing affects everyhing. means you can tune sound to your taste, but akes time.
Thanks for the feedback.
I was taught/learned that the ultimate tonearm would be defined as an infinitely rigid nothing. The closest tonearm I'm aware of that meets that definition is a straight arm made of tapered carbon fiber called the Black Widow by Infinity. At stylus, it has an effective mass of a mere 3 grams. If anyone here knows of a lighter high compliance arm I would love to hear about it.
What about VPI type tonearms that are just balanced on one pivot point?