Hi Steve! Yeah, I think others have said it better than I could! You've basically created a reversing scenario! Using a triangle to turn locos around is a well trodden path though, so there are definitely solutions out there! Cheers, Ian.
@@lynganddistrict - That's great news Steve! What a great community we have here! I'll just add, that if you're going down the auto-reverse path, I'd consider getting a set of DCC Concepts bus spike suppressors! As Jonathan points out, auto-reverse units wait for a short circuit to occur before they switch polarity! This can cause a large spike that can cause damage to other components connected to the DCC bus - like decoders, or even the command station! The bus spike suppressors will mitigate this risk, and they're only a tenner! I'll be installing them as the autofrogs I'm using work in the same way as an auto-reverser! Hope this helps and doesn't add to the confusion! :) Cheers, Ian.
@@lynganddistrict - FYI, you only need one at each end of your DCC bus, and you get two in a pack, so it should cost only £10 - a small price to pay to protect your decoders, surely? :)
Greetings Steve 🐲🏴👋 John Warner 😇 has explained the solutions perfectly 👌 he's always such a helpful chap , he's forgotten more than I'll ever know👍 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
Hi, two ways to throw the polarity. 1. Manually using a double pole, double throw switch (DPDT switch) its a bit like a mid section between two other opposing main sections. The switch could be set for a train to enter, stop, throw the switch exit the other end. Very important the train MUST not be longer the the reversing line. The train must be totally contained. If part of the train remains outside the sectionafter entering, that will cause an instant short. This is the cheaper option, I did a video ages ago how to wire the switch. Think of it a as chamber astronauts go through to depressurise before entering the space station from outer space. 2. An slight more expensive option but much easier to operate, as its totally automatic polarity switching. Ie a reversing module. Got a feeling though it maybe for lines that double back onto the same line, as oposed to joining two section of oposing polarity. The manual switch maybe a better option. Have a think get back to me if you like the idea.
Hi John and yes I found your video and watched it several times. I don't want to have to use a manual switch so was looking for a unit that would detect and auto reverse the polarity and I think the Gaugemaster Auto reverse may just do the trick- do you have any experience in installing such a unit, or a DCC4o perhaps? Regards Steve
Hi Steve Put a reverse loop module unit in on the bottom of the triangle, having one of those means you will not have to remember to switch anything it does it automatically. Gaugemaster sell one call, dcc40. but there are others, LoDi has one. The plans look great for that area. Colin
Hi Steve, I'll try not to repeat what other have said, but build on it. I think you've realised you need to totally isolate the first of the points on the lower-down section of track on the diagram you showed - I'd put insulated rail joiners on both connections to the "straight on" (towards the rest of the layout), and insulated joiners on both of the diverging rails that meet those of the other points. The whole power to that isolated point, and the track just off to the right of it on your diagram, needs to have it's power cables "flipped" while the loco is inside that section - the type of point frog doesn't really matter. I'm not a fan of auto-reversers because they need to wait for a short-circuit to happen in order to decide to flip the power over; I also wouldn't like to have to remember to flip a power switch manually, but there's another option: the auxiliary switches on your MP-10 point motors that you showed. Instead of LED power one of the switches can be for the power to rail 1, and the other switch can be for the power to rail 2. The way your track is arranged if the points are set to ahead you always want the phase of the power matching the beach part of the layout, and when they're set to diverge you always want the phase matching the tunnel behind the castle. If you don't want to sacrifice the red/green LED on that point motor there are two more options: 1. connect microswitches to the point motor arm that moves the points, and use them to flip the power feeds, or 2. use the point motor auxiliary switch to control a double-pole relay module, then one "side" of each relay controls one LED input (the red or green arm) and the other controls one of the power feeds. You might need the section that gets flipped to be everything that's connected off to the right of this point. I hope that's not too confusing as words - I'm much better at explaining things with diagrams - but I hope it helps a bit.
Jonathon - thank you so much for your detailed help - yes I did consider using the switch's on the MR10's to switch polarity and may still go back to this but am still looking at an auto reverse module - From my research they seem to operate within milliseconds so may try this first as an experiment and see what happens but then fall back on your suggestion if I'm not happy about it. I am so grateful for your reply and advice thank you so much. Regards Steve
@@lynganddistrict If you're happy with the auto-reversers then I think they're going to be the simplest way to go, and with Ian's advice about the spike suppressors I'm sure all will be well - lots of people seem to have these kinds of solutions and I haven't seen anyone say it's actually fried any of their electronics 🙂 I look forward to seeing how you get on, and it looks like you've got several of us who are happy to help if we can 🙂 (P.S. I don't consider myself an expert here - I've never had a reversing section on my simple layout!)
Hi Steve. If you google 'wiring a triangle on model railway' you will get the help you need. It is possible to do and it shouldn't be too difficult for you to work it in to your design. I haven't wired one myself but I have seen two really good exhibition layouts, one DC and one DCC that had them. Stephen
Hello Stephen and thanks for the tip - I spent some 3 hours this morning doing just that and I think I have come across a way in which it can be done using a Digitrax DCC40 or a Gaugemaster Autoreverse module.
@ I’m glad it helped. It is a tricky thing to get your head around. The auto reversers I used on my double slips can I was informed when I bought them also be used on a reversing loop or triangle but quite how you wire them in I wouldn’t have the first idea!
Hi Steve, lol! Don’t ask me mate and I’ve read some of the replies and still don’t understand! I can say though John Warner and Jonathan from Endoor usually has a good way of explaining things, john has helped me out before. The one thing in my favour is that I would have recognised that problem and not built it because my brain wouldn’t compute either! 🤣. I would’ve found a simpler solution! I do like the plans and perhaps we could have an exchange from your harbour to mine. I will be interested in the solution though and it maybe simpler than you and me think! Cheers Steve, John
Loll John I like your style and thinking! I do tend to get myself tied up in knots at time with this layout but now i'm committed to it I need to solve iot. Jonathan and John have both set me thinking and have given me some ideas which I am so grateful for. It's so good that our little hobby has so many experts willing to share their knowledge. Regards Steve
Nice update. Glad John has answered..he's always a good place to start 👍
Yes we are so lucky to have these people in the community to rely on Thanks for the support.
Regards
Steve
Hello there Steve,
You’ve made some great progress there, keep it up.
Nat 🚂👍
Many thanks Nat - Hopefully I can make progress and complete the TMD/Storage yard this year.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve! Yeah, I think others have said it better than I could! You've basically created a reversing scenario! Using a triangle to turn locos around is a well trodden path though, so there are definitely solutions out there! Cheers, Ian.
Thanks Ian - I may have found a solution so am investigating this possibility using either a Gaugemaster or DCC autoreverse unit.
Regards
Steve
@@lynganddistrict - That's great news Steve! What a great community we have here! I'll just add, that if you're going down the auto-reverse path, I'd consider getting a set of DCC Concepts bus spike suppressors! As Jonathan points out, auto-reverse units wait for a short circuit to occur before they switch polarity! This can cause a large spike that can cause damage to other components connected to the DCC bus - like decoders, or even the command station! The bus spike suppressors will mitigate this risk, and they're only a tenner! I'll be installing them as the autofrogs I'm using work in the same way as an auto-reverser! Hope this helps and doesn't add to the confusion! :) Cheers, Ian.
@iansngauge cheers Ian it does makes sense and doesn't add to the confusion but it will add to the cost I think!
@@lynganddistrict - FYI, you only need one at each end of your DCC bus, and you get two in a pack, so it should cost only £10 - a small price to pay to protect your decoders, surely? :)
Greetings Steve 🐲🏴👋 John Warner 😇 has explained the solutions perfectly 👌 he's always such a helpful chap , he's forgotten more than I'll ever know👍 Very best wishes from the Emerald Isle ☘️
Cheers fella! I may have found a solution and thrown back the question to JOh see what he says.
Regards
Steve
Hi, two ways to throw the polarity. 1. Manually using a double pole, double throw switch (DPDT switch) its a bit like a mid section between two other opposing main sections. The switch could be set for a train to enter, stop, throw the switch exit the other end. Very important the train MUST not be longer the the reversing line. The train must be totally contained. If part of the train remains outside the sectionafter entering, that will cause an instant short. This is the cheaper option, I did a video ages ago how to wire the switch.
Think of it a as chamber astronauts go through to depressurise before entering the space station from outer space.
2. An slight more expensive option but much easier to operate, as its totally automatic polarity switching. Ie a reversing module. Got a feeling though it maybe for lines that double back onto the same line, as oposed to joining two section of oposing polarity.
The manual switch maybe a better option. Have a think get back to me if you like the idea.
Hi John and yes I found your video and watched it several times. I don't want to have to use a manual switch so was looking for a unit that would detect and auto reverse the polarity and I think the Gaugemaster Auto reverse may just do the trick- do you have any experience in installing such a unit, or a DCC4o perhaps?
Regards
Steve
great track place keep up the great vlogs
Thanks Lee
Hi Steve Put a reverse loop module unit in on the bottom of the triangle, having one of those means you will not have to remember to switch anything it does it automatically. Gaugemaster sell one call, dcc40. but there are others, LoDi has one. The plans look great for that area. Colin
Thanks Colin - I have been looking at the Gaugemaster unit this morning and alternatives and it looks like it may be the way forward.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve - John Warner's reply covers the question !
Doesn't it just! What a great community we have here, and I am so grateful to you all.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve, I'll try not to repeat what other have said, but build on it. I think you've realised you need to totally isolate the first of the points on the lower-down section of track on the diagram you showed - I'd put insulated rail joiners on both connections to the "straight on" (towards the rest of the layout), and insulated joiners on both of the diverging rails that meet those of the other points. The whole power to that isolated point, and the track just off to the right of it on your diagram, needs to have it's power cables "flipped" while the loco is inside that section - the type of point frog doesn't really matter.
I'm not a fan of auto-reversers because they need to wait for a short-circuit to happen in order to decide to flip the power over; I also wouldn't like to have to remember to flip a power switch manually, but there's another option: the auxiliary switches on your MP-10 point motors that you showed. Instead of LED power one of the switches can be for the power to rail 1, and the other switch can be for the power to rail 2. The way your track is arranged if the points are set to ahead you always want the phase of the power matching the beach part of the layout, and when they're set to diverge you always want the phase matching the tunnel behind the castle.
If you don't want to sacrifice the red/green LED on that point motor there are two more options: 1. connect microswitches to the point motor arm that moves the points, and use them to flip the power feeds, or 2. use the point motor auxiliary switch to control a double-pole relay module, then one "side" of each relay controls one LED input (the red or green arm) and the other controls one of the power feeds.
You might need the section that gets flipped to be everything that's connected off to the right of this point.
I hope that's not too confusing as words - I'm much better at explaining things with diagrams - but I hope it helps a bit.
Jonathon - thank you so much for your detailed help - yes I did consider using the switch's on the MR10's to switch polarity and may still go back to this but am still looking at an auto reverse module - From my research they seem to operate within milliseconds so may try this first as an experiment and see what happens but then fall back on your suggestion if I'm not happy about it. I am so grateful for your reply and advice thank you so much.
Regards
Steve
@@lynganddistrict If you're happy with the auto-reversers then I think they're going to be the simplest way to go, and with Ian's advice about the spike suppressors I'm sure all will be well - lots of people seem to have these kinds of solutions and I haven't seen anyone say it's actually fried any of their electronics 🙂 I look forward to seeing how you get on, and it looks like you've got several of us who are happy to help if we can 🙂 (P.S. I don't consider myself an expert here - I've never had a reversing section on my simple layout!)
Compared to my limited experience you all are experts! The auto reverser and spike suppressors are on order!
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve. If you google 'wiring a triangle on model railway' you will get the help you need. It is possible to do and it shouldn't be too difficult for you to work it in to your design. I haven't wired one myself but I have seen two really good exhibition layouts, one DC and one DCC that had them. Stephen
Hello Stephen and thanks for the tip - I spent some 3 hours this morning doing just that and I think I have come across a way in which it can be done using a Digitrax DCC40 or a Gaugemaster Autoreverse module.
@ I’m glad it helped. It is a tricky thing to get your head around. The auto reversers I used on my double slips can I was informed when I bought them also be used on a reversing loop or triangle but quite how you wire them in I wouldn’t have the first idea!
I'll do my best to record it all and share with everyone how it pans out .... ohhh errrr.
Regards
Steve
Hi Steve, lol! Don’t ask me mate and I’ve read some of the replies and still don’t understand! I can say though John Warner and Jonathan from Endoor usually has a good way of explaining things, john has helped me out before. The one thing in my favour is that I would have recognised that problem and not built it because my brain wouldn’t compute either! 🤣. I would’ve found a simpler solution!
I do like the plans and perhaps we could have an exchange from your harbour to mine.
I will be interested in the solution though and it maybe simpler than you and me think!
Cheers Steve, John
Loll John I like your style and thinking! I do tend to get myself tied up in knots at time with this layout but now i'm committed to it I need to solve iot. Jonathan and John have both set me thinking and have given me some ideas which I am so grateful for. It's so good that our little hobby has so many experts willing to share their knowledge.
Regards
Steve