Literally ! I've always thought the same thing ! How great of a time we live in to have this information spoon fed to us. I'm soo thankful guys like Richard and Matt Happel do what they do so we can pick the right combo's and save thousands of dollars in parts and dyno/drag strip time. The guys in the 60's to late 90's would have killed for all this great information.....
Name: "Richard Holdener". Title: "National Treasure". Thanks for putting this together for the LS community. I am doing a rebuild on a customer's 5.3L LM7, and I wanted too see what other stock-style cams might work with factory valve springs and lifters, while picking up some power upstairs. This was a great help. Watched it 3-4 times and studied. Bookmarking for future friends and enthusiasts.
For a daily driver, of all these cams, I'd go with the LQ9 (2001-2004 LS1) cam--very little torque loss at low-rpm, but 21 peak HP gain while also spreading curve out to higher rpm.
Love these cam comparisons. Would love to see some aftermarket “low lift” cams compared with more aggressive aftermarket cams in 5.3 or 6.0. I’ve done both versions of the Howard’s ASA cam, one with 110 LSA in a 02 LS1 and the 112 LSA version of the same cam in a 08 L76 in a G8. Both cars made about 400 hp to the wheels (only CAI, cam, headers, tune) and cams only grossed .525 lift, 226/236 lift at .050. Seems to me that a good designed low lift cam can make great power over stock cams but I have not seen any comparisons. Thanks! Love the channel!
He's pretty much documented all ta that. The 454 Comp cam he likes as well as the other Comps he normally runs are more aggressive than the BTR stage 1-3 truck cams he recently posted
Hey Richard just wanted to say that I appreciate your time and your dedication to helping us motor heads with information and tips on building our projects. I have been watching for about 6 months and covered most of the videos even the one's I'm not interested in just because it's cool to see the difference in manufacturers factory output numbers and what they offer with upgrades. I always loved hot rod magazine tech articles well low and behold your the man behind most of the test I was intrigued by. So I've been building ls stuff on a budget for a few years on and off we have a small mechanic shop in upstate ny and I've been a fan of the LQ9 6.0 for it's availability and price also the power you get with a basic cam and factory head swap. Before I had watched all your videos I was keeping track of things online and what cams had the hype. I put a Texas speed 228r in jeffs chevelle with a victor jr. Carb intake with the MLS ignition system. That was a incredible combination coming from the old small block combination we had in the chevelle before. I'll get to the point idk how much I can write on here.. I recently put the LQ9 cam in my winter truck a 02 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 with the lm7 steel block. Hey it's a free swap why not? I have a hypertech plug and play tuner and transmission upgrades I rebuild the GM truck transmissions. So I can spin the stock 5.3 6200 and take advantage of the cam better than most can just doing the swap my truck typically shifts at 52-5400 stock. I run it out just high enough not to pop the limiter in between gears. The truck definitely pulls harder up top! I am curious to see how it works with some more mods but the trucks mostly my secondary rig to keep salt off my gmc with a cammed lq9 but plans to boost the original 5.3 are in the works on the 06 gmc. I could tell you more about some of the things I have been trying but don't want to write more on the response part of this story. But anyone reading the lq9 cam does offer cheap noticeable results nothing crazy like a big cam swap but hey for free I'm not upset with my results thanks again for your time and dedication to helping out the performance community! Keep the test coming there awesome! I'll try to keep you posted on some of my findings too.
I'm glad you compared the LS2, LS3 and LS6 together. I'm sure you know the LS2 cam is actually the 01 LS6 cam. The 02+up LS6 cam is more aggressive than the LS2 cam. Finally the LS3 cam is a hybrid between the LS2 and LS6 cams.
This is such a cool channel. Nowhere else can you get info on what all these different cams do to an LS motor. He took all the research that some people spend hours looking up and put them into a 10-15 min video. I see 100,000+ subs in his near future
Everyone who’s a real mechanic has that old craftsman screwdriver in there box that looks like it went there a war 40 years ago and has been used to install a LS cam. Lol. Thumbnail got me in the heart
We've been doing LS2 swap cams for Budget builds since 2005 this is nothing new it's just the fact that Richard exposed it. By the way Richard huge compliments on doing this back-to-back comparison you greatly help inform ton of people that didn't believe us
Thanks for the h2h LS9 vs LS7, I wondered how similar they were in real world application. A lot of people poop on the LS9 cam but it is dirty cheap new GM and works! FWIW I have used a LS2 cam in a LM7 for years in an old C10 and it is nasty good on the street loaded with junk ridin heavy or unloaded. Easiest swap is still the LS6 though, too bad the price jumped up on new ones. Keep the goodness coming!
@@richardholdener1727 the ls7 is 120.5 lsa and ls9 is 122lsa. Also ls7 cam was designed to be used with 1.8 rockers to achieve the .59x lift so there may be a slightly different ramp angle there.
Same here, I’m hoping he will revisit it. Also he didn’t give specs for that one so I’m wondering if it was the earlier LS6 cam or the later upgraded one.
Get the later version ls6 forsure Texas speed has a truck-cam stage 2 it is a ls6 cam with torque I have it in my 1999 z28 idles super smooth no one suspects that I have a cam and put down 350 hp 350 tq thru an automatic with 4000 rpm stall and 410 gears which all that makes you lose power on the dyno
I made 451whp 423wtq with a ls6 cam. It was a bolt on ls6 engine actually. That was on pump gas and no dyno tricks.....well i did bypass my ps to get on the same level as these eps guys. It was in a m6 4gen and through a 9". I think one could get a ls6 cam near 500whp in a 346.
Good stuff Richard you sure do put a lot of work in that we don't even see. if I could just stomach these commercials whenever I'm up late at night if I want to watch infomercials I just watch RUclips
Thanks for the videos and great information on the combinations. I would like to see the ASA cam on the LM7. You can use this cam without a spring upgrade on a LS2, or LS3. Again thanks for the great information.
Great presentation. Thanks. I own a 2005 LS2 GTO M6, it pulls hard at all RPMs and is fun to drive. Even though the LS2 has a small cam it makes very good torque and HP. Good flowing heads can yield both low RPM torque and high RPM HP. :)
the stock ls2 makes peak power at less than 6000 rpm, so the stock heads teamed with a stock cam and long runner intake don't really make good high-rpm power-but a cam swap helps that a lot
@@richardholdener1727 At the drag strip it pulls hard to 6000 rpm. I've raced it many times. Low 13's at 108 mph is fast enough for me. :) The factory CAI is restrictive, I installed a Lingenfelter CAI and K&N filter gained almost 3 mph.
Heres one for you... I have an ls6 crate motor in my 99 Z28, with most bolt ons including a fast 102 & 1.8 rockers. the heads were milled .015 to 62cc for a slight bump in compression. the car went 10.8 @ 125 @ 3370lbs thru a 6 speed. it made 445rwhp on VP110 and 31* of timing, 13:1 AFR. i see a lot of heads/cam setups on LS1tech that struggle to produce the power my setup makes and im using stock parts. what i would like to see on your dyno is a 5.7 with the combo i have compared to some heads cam setups, it would be very interesting to see how the stock ls6 topend compares. I feel this is a good setup for anyone looking to make 450 at the wheels or less, its great on gas, has a stealthy idle, & is very torquey and snappy but will make power north of 6600rpm. yet i still have a hard time selling people on this setup.
Great video! Here's another idea, everyone is always removing the VVT phaser on their L99 (auto version of the LS3) when doing a cam upgrade, But GM moved to VVT for all their gen V motors. You think VVT would be an improvement. I'd be curious to see the effects of the VVT phaser with a Max effort cam compared to a cammed LS3 or VVT deleted L99 and see which one actually made more power.
Richard, I think one thing that should be noted here is that most guys especially F body guys are going to have a torque converter upgrade. In these 4L60E cars 3600-4000 stall converters are very common even on bolt on engine cars. Converters just pick these cars up so well it's amazing, frankly. So having said that, the low speed trade off that most are going to experience from some of the bigger cams is going to be a moot point when the converter is flashing so high. Just my thoughts brotha.
Great comparison test! Thank you so much! I still don't understand why the 122 LSA cams behave the way they do. With little overlap, I'd say that tuned exhaust header effects would be minimized however the header vs a non-tuned exhaust w/cats wasn't shown - so no way to know where the headers were doing their job. I would have thought the 122 would have killed top end and had little effect bottom end. However that is not true. So it's like a complete re-thinking of how this stuff works is where I'm at. NOTE: ADVANCE: I believe the LS9 may have 6* of Advance built in which would add bottom. QUESTION: Where all the cams installed AS-IS wherever the OE timing marks put them OR "straight up"? If some cams have advance built into them, then it's hard to relate results to specs. INTAKE CLOSING?: Another way to look at the LS9 is that the cam is a "big" cam w/"lots" of duration where they simply reduced the overlap, so the exhaust opening and intake closing are the same as a traditional cam w/114 LSA. Could the loss of bottom end be due simply to the intake closing? I wouldn't think the headers are doing much at 2500 rpm. FUEL ECONOMY?: The other question about these comparisons is what is the fuel economy at low throttle settings (cruising on the interstate?) I suspect the 122 might produce better fuel economy but we'll never know. CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGERS?: I'm thinking the 122 might be a good idea IF the 122 itself was not the cause of low end loss. IF the INTAKE CLOSING, that could be managed to maintain some low end torque for the centrifugal. (Of course the boost ratio as the square of rpm ratio has no bottom end torque by definition.) A comparison with stock manifolds & cats (which ones of course) might reveal some interesting results as well as supercharged runs (what happens with a good NA cam w/SC?
The 1st high hp engine I saw in person when I was 16 was a twin turbo cadillac 500 near syracuse ny. I would have put that in a 70 nova or t bucket myself. But we were in awe. The car was probably 800 to 1200 hp. So I began my cadillac engine building years. I also did olds 455, sbc 350,400. 427,454.
@@montecarloss185 i cant wait lol i hope he runs em in a 4.8L lol as i put an elgin ss2 in a low mile 4.8L. Prolly gonna run it like this then port an extra set of 862's i have and see the difference
In this same test in Car Craft magazine Richard ran three different Crane cams in this engine. The 200, 210, and 224. They all made much better power than the factory cams, with less torque lost down low.
@@middlesiderrider In that article, he lists the 200 cam as 200/200 113 LSA. All I see that Crane makes close to that is a 200/208. Do you think they just don't make the 200/200 anymore?, or was it a typo and meant to be the 200/208?
@@jakewade7388 I don't know but I'm sure the folks at Crane can tell ya. I think the big deal with that cam was the ability to use stock springs. Should still be able to if the lift is the same. That would be a nice cost savings if you're as broke as I am
Thanks Richard, you have so much research data. You need to sneak into the school of automotive machinists some day and reveal some of their engine wizardry.
Just pulled a stock LS3 cam from my new crate motor. Picked up an LC9 to fool around with. Thinking I’m going to gap the rings, delete the DOD and VVT, put the ls3 cam in, and make an ultra low buck turbo deal out of it.
Looking at the results, if you are building a lightweight chassis (like an S-10), the LS3 cam is the best balanced of all the stock cams, for maintaining good torque while making power on the cheap
I think the HO 5300 cam is the same as the later LMG cam without DoD lobes. I had to use one when I deleted the Wife's 08 Tahoe, perfect swap, no tuning.
Im curious with these junkyard ls’s with cam swaps how much can be made on 87 octane compared to 93. Ive only seen 1 article on it and they didnt compare it to high test. Would be interesting to see because it could save a lot of $$$$
ok last comment. Its worth mentioning that in order to swap the later Gen 4 cams into a Gen 3 block you need to run a later timing cover, gear and extend cam sensor harness. The Gen 3 engines got their cam signal off the cam itself and the later Gen 4 engines got their signal off the cam gear. Finally, running a 1 bolt cam in an early block can be a challenge since I don't think anyone makes a 24x gear with a 1 bolt.
I appreciate these videos brother! I wish I was following you back in 17! I put my four-door together and went with the LS nine cam and I mentioned it before on a previous video yours it is a absolute turd Down low!!
Test idea. Pick a cam. Change just the lsa starting at 108 and go up to 118 to see the difference. Just lsa change. Now that would be interesting. I tend to think a higher lsa makes a higher peak power and broader curve.
Poole's Performance asa cam is junk. It sounds sweet but makes terrible power and drive ability. And that’s in an ls1. In a 5.3 it’s going to suck even harder.
I believe the ls6 Z06 camshaft is different than a stock ls6 camshaft, I noticed a pickup in power in my 2000 z28 m6 once it was installed and retuned for that cam.
Now do this same test with a 6.0 and heads that give you over 10.0:1 compression so we can see the effects with cubes and the correct compression zone for those cams.
@@raylaux8295 he clearly said "and heads that give you over 10.0:1 compression." He didn't not say to use the stock 6.0 317 casting heads. So maybe he should use a head with a smaller combustion chamber than what the 317's have...son
Please do a truck cam shootout with Texas Speed, BTR, etc... plus any "torque" cams that are out there. A discussion about how they would impact the need for a torque converter would be great as well. Lots of us want something that grabs you by the seat of the pants and sounds more aggressive without having to pull the engine and trans apart to maintain our drivability in town. I've ridden in a lot of trucks with cam upgrades that needed a new torque converter even though the manufacturer claimed they didn't.
I would really like to see a cam comparison between a thumber style cam that has lots of overlap to something that has less like most “boost” style cams. In n/a and boost configuration. I been shopping for a cam and all the specs are close together besides lobe separation/overlap.
Thank you Richard! Love your channel. If you could come across the Scoggin Dickey “hot truck cam” to test. I just bought one for my LQ4 with 706 heads, long tube headers, TBSS intake with a 92mm throat. You have a lot of influence on this combo. It’s going in my 72 1 ton dually. Hoping the torque is there! Thanks again! You rock
This is good. As I've said before, my thing is HP, not so much TQ, I don't care as much for low TQ under 4000rpm as long as I have decent TQ and good HP above it and can rev like Ralph Kramdem - "To The Moon!"
I’d like to see the lower rpm curve in your vids if possible. Noticed it started at 2250 or so this time, it’s nice to see as these motors can lug around down low. Shows stop start traffic stuff.
The 01 and up LQ4 or LQ9 cam has always been listed as 196/207 duration and not 196/201. I have admittedly never measured one because I didn't really care that much but I may now just for fun. Another fun fact is if that grind is indeed the 196/207 split it's almost identical to the static number on the VVT cam from the LY6 and L96 which GM states is 196/208.
All good info Richard. I would wonder how well they would stand up to a Sloppy Stage 2 cam, price would be about the same or maybe a little cheaper with the sloppy. Add a set of LS6 springs (cheap) and let the numbers talk, or with all your testing have you done it ?
great info. LS3 cam and 1-5/8" headers will probably make 430 bhp with more torque than the LS7 cam. The Corvette cams are also meant for 11:1 compression vs 9.5:1 in the LM7. That's probably good for 450 bhp with stock idle and mpg is probably better than stock.
For the truck guys would be nice to see the truck cam comparison like the btr stage 1-4. I've seen you do up to I think stage 2 but would be cool to see what the "wilder" truck stuff actually runs vs non truck labeled cams
I had an MS4 w/ 110LSA in a 383 LS1 and it was ridiculous. 1,100 RPM idle, backfires, poor vacuum, all until about 3,500 RPM. Came on like a turbo and would do a roll on burnout in third gear at a hundred on 275’s.
@@KreatorOfDeath1985 it was in a 3560 pound 4th gen z28 5.3 with decked 799's ms3 cam pac springs and trunion upgrade ls2 intake with a nick Williams TB and 2" long tube headers with 3 and half inch dynomax bullets with turndowns bolted two the headers T56 speed 12 bolt rear end with a 4.30 gear it was actually pretty stout for what it was especially up top it was a lot of fun to play around with on the street and track I think I revved to around 7300 or 7400rpm and shifted at 7000 car also had a nitrous outlet plate kit jetted at 150 on a good pass it would run mid to lowish 6's on the bottle and low 7's in the 1/8
@@TheTmshuman i had a ms3 in a sbe lm4 aluminum 5.3 and it was a damn good running car o never had any vacuum problems I think mine would idle around 8-900 rpm
I would love to see a LS 5.3 truck cam shootout, Comp, Cam Motion, Tick, BTR, TSP. I would also like to see a test done on the effects of valve lift. say .500, .550, .600 on stock 862/706 heads.
I wish you had run the LM7 cam with the 1.8 rockers to compare against the entire field....... the rocker upgrade on the smaller cam may have been the most cost effective power without major sacrafice in the torque curve
I wish you could've done another pull with the ls6 cam. I've ran an LS6 (02-04) with ls2 243 heads, fast 78 and all bolt ons and tune for over a decade and 80k plus miles (shortblock now has 186k, untouched). A/F is dead on 12.4-12.6 throughout powerband and i run 4.10s. Goal was to have a c5z under a ws6 shell. Yeah, there's huge loss in tq down low vs stock ls1 and plus long tubes take away low end tq also.. but the 4.10s helped a little. But after 4500 rpm's, she really picks up. Like a 100 shot or something.
He ran that cam. It lost 4lb-ft at 2500rpm, only started making more at 4500, and made a total of +12lb-ft and +14hp at 6200rpm. Maybe worth it if you like swapping cams and already have one...
I cant believe we all get this information for free. thank you to everyone involved!
He puts a ton of work into these - definitely much appreciated
Richard = LS king for sure! So much information 👍
Literally ! I've always thought the same thing ! How great of a time we live in to have this information spoon fed to us. I'm soo thankful guys like Richard and Matt Happel do what they do so we can pick the right combo's and save thousands of dollars in parts and dyno/drag strip time. The guys in the 60's to late 90's would have killed for all this great information.....
Seven years ago i had to pay for the Car Craft magazine that contained this exact info in an article by Richard
@@PapaWheelie1 QUOTE definitely much appreciated
UNQUOTE
except by 13 morons who stopped by to give a TD.
Best engine channel by far, can we just take a moment to appreciate how much time he puts into each video for us
Name: "Richard Holdener". Title: "National Treasure".
Thanks for putting this together for the LS community. I am doing a rebuild on a customer's 5.3L LM7, and I wanted too see what other stock-style cams might work with factory valve springs and lifters, while picking up some power upstairs. This was a great help. Watched it 3-4 times and studied. Bookmarking for future friends and enthusiasts.
It was amazing meeting you at west tech. Thank you so much for doing the science behind all the junkyard builds?? Keep killing it!!
thnx-always great to meet car guys (and gals)
You mean, he's real and not an actor?
Why don't see you on hoonigan
Your an inspiration brother
You must spend $500/month on engine degreaser :) Channel is awesome, educational and a great service to the community!
For a daily driver, of all these cams, I'd go with the LQ9 (2001-2004 LS1) cam--very little torque loss at low-rpm, but 21 peak HP gain while also spreading curve out to higher rpm.
The L33 5.3ho cam you used was 193/193 duration at .050" and .479/.479 lift with 116 lsa
I remember reading the article you wrote on this. Had to be almost 5 years ago. Glad to see the information still holds up!
It was an excellent write up. Thanks Richard.
The LS2/3 seems like the best compromise to me.
Thank you for the excellent videos sir, I love em!!
How do you not have over 100k subscribers? Great solid info as always, thanks for your time
I’m so happy that I found this channel information overload and I know we all love our LS
Richard, This is the content I have been looking for. BEST LS CHANNEL PERIOD! Thank you for all your time consuming work. It helps all of us.
Love these cam comparisons. Would love to see some aftermarket “low lift” cams compared with more aggressive aftermarket cams in 5.3 or 6.0. I’ve done both versions of the Howard’s ASA cam, one with 110 LSA in a 02 LS1 and the 112 LSA version of the same cam in a 08 L76 in a G8. Both cars made about 400 hp to the wheels (only CAI, cam, headers, tune) and cams only grossed .525 lift, 226/236 lift at .050.
Seems to me that a good designed low lift cam can make great power over stock cams but I have not seen any comparisons. Thanks! Love the channel!
He's pretty much documented all ta that. The 454 Comp cam he likes as well as the other Comps he normally runs are more aggressive than the BTR stage 1-3 truck cams he recently posted
Hey Richard just wanted to say that I appreciate your time and your dedication to helping us motor heads with information and tips on building our projects. I have been watching for about 6 months and covered most of the videos even the one's I'm not interested in just because it's cool to see the difference in manufacturers factory output numbers and what they offer with upgrades. I always loved hot rod magazine tech articles well low and behold your the man behind most of the test I was intrigued by. So I've been building ls stuff on a budget for a few years on and off we have a small mechanic shop in upstate ny and I've been a fan of the LQ9 6.0 for it's availability and price also the power you get with a basic cam and factory head swap. Before I had watched all your videos I was keeping track of things online and what cams had the hype. I put a Texas speed 228r in jeffs chevelle with a victor jr. Carb intake with the MLS ignition system. That was a incredible combination coming from the old small block combination we had in the chevelle before. I'll get to the point idk how much I can write on here.. I recently put the LQ9 cam in my winter truck a 02 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 with the lm7 steel block. Hey it's a free swap why not? I have a hypertech plug and play tuner and transmission upgrades I rebuild the GM truck transmissions. So I can spin the stock 5.3 6200 and take advantage of the cam better than most can just doing the swap my truck typically shifts at 52-5400 stock. I run it out just high enough not to pop the limiter in between gears. The truck definitely pulls harder up top! I am curious to see how it works with some more mods but the trucks mostly my secondary rig to keep salt off my gmc with a cammed lq9 but plans to boost the original 5.3 are in the works on the 06 gmc. I could tell you more about some of the things I have been trying but don't want to write more on the response part of this story. But anyone reading the lq9 cam does offer cheap noticeable results nothing crazy like a big cam swap but hey for free I'm not upset with my results thanks again for your time and dedication to helping out the performance community! Keep the test coming there awesome! I'll try to keep you posted on some of my findings too.
I think the ls3 would be the best comprise for me. Especially in an auto where the converter blows right up into the gains
I'm glad you compared the LS2, LS3 and LS6 together. I'm sure you know the LS2 cam is actually the 01 LS6 cam. The 02+up LS6 cam is more aggressive than the LS2 cam. Finally the LS3 cam is a hybrid between the LS2 and LS6 cams.
yep
This is such a cool channel. Nowhere else can you get info on what all these different cams do to an LS motor. He took all the research that some people spend hours looking up and put them into a 10-15 min video. I see 100,000+ subs in his near future
I read all this in your crane cams trio write up. Awesomeness at its finest!
That LQ9 cam is the same as the 01-up LS1 cam. The earlier LS1's 97--00 used a cam that made less low end and about 10 more top end.
The 2000 C5 only cam was very good. .500" lift, tighter LSA
Richard, .. YOU ARE A BEAST!! Thank you for doing all this testing, and educating me !!
Beast Mode-engaged!
Everyone who’s a real mechanic has that old craftsman screwdriver in there box that looks like it went there a war 40 years ago and has been used to install a LS cam. Lol. Thumbnail got me in the heart
Ron Gravel
I have some 5” long bolts that I screw into the cam for a grip.
Holy shit. Wouldn’t think in a million years those’s cams would do that. Mind blowing
I was rebuilding my LM7 for my Land Cruiser and this video helped me stay with a stock grind. I love your videos. Ty
Even tho I'm not a V8 guy nor do I see much, the stuff is informational, especially the boost stuff. Love it.
Great vid. Put LS2 cam and LR4 pistons in my LM7. Now I have some legit numbers to brag about. Thanks!
Nothing better than Richard's fresh content and coffee!
Thanks for making these videos! They answer so many questions that I've had about my cam that came in my engine!
I'm feeling your spiritual judo chops,
Right in my heart...
We've been doing LS2 swap cams for Budget builds since 2005 this is nothing new it's just the fact that Richard exposed it. By the way Richard huge compliments on doing this back-to-back comparison you greatly help inform ton of people that didn't believe us
same, the LS2 cam is a great for a DD, I build Jeeps and use this in all the 5.3 swaps I do.
How are you putting ls2 cams in 5.3 with the cam shaft sensor?
@@DavidSands-m3e do you utilize a Gen 4 front cover with a cam sensor crossover pin a and aNC and use a one pole cam gear
I want to put a ls3 cam in my lq9 but I was wondering the same thing
You have to disabled the cam sensor and run on batch fire, little harder on fuel and coils but works
Im diggin' that LS3 power curve!
Building a Desert Cruiser. It lives at lower rpm. Need Torque down there(799s). Thanks Richard for clearing things up...
Love your channel! There is such a wealth of Knowledge! I’ve personally learned more than a handful of things!
Thanks for the h2h LS9 vs LS7, I wondered how similar they were in real world application. A lot of people poop on the LS9 cam but it is dirty cheap new GM and works! FWIW I have used a LS2 cam in a LM7 for years in an old C10 and it is nasty good on the street loaded with junk ridin heavy or unloaded. Easiest swap is still the LS6 though, too bad the price jumped up on new ones. Keep the goodness coming!
ls7 and ls9 are the same
@@richardholdener1727 the ls7 is 120.5 lsa and ls9 is 122lsa. Also ls7 cam was designed to be used with 1.8 rockers to achieve the .59x lift so there may be a slightly different ramp angle there.
Excellent video, it doesn’t get better than comparisons like this!
Would love to see a comparison of camshafts looking for low end torque to optimize as a truck motor.
Of all the cams I was most curious about the ls6! D’oh
Reason I was even watching this :(
Same here, I’m hoping he will revisit it. Also he didn’t give specs for that one so I’m wondering if it was the earlier LS6 cam or the later upgraded one.
Get the later version ls6 forsure Texas speed has a truck-cam stage 2 it is a ls6 cam with torque I have it in my 1999 z28 idles super smooth no one suspects that I have a cam and put down 350 hp 350 tq thru an automatic with 4000 rpm stall and 410 gears which all that makes you lose power on the dyno
I made 451whp 423wtq with a ls6 cam. It was a bolt on ls6 engine actually. That was on pump gas and no dyno tricks.....well i did bypass my ps to get on the same level as these eps guys. It was in a m6 4gen and through a 9". I think one could get a ls6 cam near 500whp in a 346.
Good stuff Richard you sure do put a lot of work in that we don't even see. if I could just stomach these commercials whenever I'm up late at night if I want to watch infomercials I just watch RUclips
its nice to see that the $50 ls2 cam i deleted the DOD & VVT on my LC9 with wont be a disappointment.
Wow great cam comparison , thanks Richard .
Suprised only 155k views. This is legendary work
As usual a great informative vid by Richard Holdener.
Thanks for the videos and great information on the combinations. I would like to see the ASA cam on the LM7.
You can use this cam without a spring upgrade on a LS2, or LS3. Again thanks for the great information.
Might have to put the ls3 cam in my 4.8 seems like the best compromise all around
Will it need a tune with that cam?
Iirc the 5.3 HO/L33 cam has .482/.482 @.050 193/193 LSA 116.
larger than the LM7 cam.
Great presentation. Thanks.
I own a 2005 LS2 GTO M6, it pulls hard at all RPMs and is fun to drive. Even though the LS2 has a small cam it makes very good torque and HP. Good flowing heads can yield both low RPM torque and high RPM HP. :)
the stock ls2 makes peak power at less than 6000 rpm, so the stock heads teamed with a stock cam and long runner intake don't really make good high-rpm power-but a cam swap helps that a lot
@@richardholdener1727 At the drag strip it pulls hard to 6000 rpm. I've raced it many times. Low 13's at 108 mph is fast enough for me. :) The factory CAI is restrictive, I installed a Lingenfelter CAI and K&N filter gained almost 3 mph.
Heres one for you... I have an ls6 crate motor in my 99 Z28, with most bolt ons including a fast 102 & 1.8 rockers. the heads were milled .015 to 62cc for a slight bump in compression. the car went 10.8 @ 125 @ 3370lbs thru a 6 speed. it made 445rwhp on VP110 and 31* of timing, 13:1 AFR. i see a lot of heads/cam setups on LS1tech that struggle to produce the power my setup makes and im using stock parts. what i would like to see on your dyno is a 5.7 with the combo i have compared to some heads cam setups, it would be very interesting to see how the stock ls6 topend compares. I feel this is a good setup for anyone looking to make 450 at the wheels or less, its great on gas, has a stealthy idle, & is very torquey and snappy but will make power north of 6600rpm. yet i still have a hard time selling people on this setup.
Wow amazing information for the community Richard. You have instantly gained a subscriber. Looking forward to learning more from you bud
Now that I did not know and this is what I like learning about. Thank you Richard
Great video! Here's another idea, everyone is always removing the VVT phaser on their L99 (auto version of the LS3) when doing a cam upgrade, But GM moved to VVT for all their gen V motors. You think VVT would be an improvement. I'd be curious to see the effects of the VVT phaser with a Max effort cam compared to a cammed LS3 or VVT deleted L99 and see which one actually made more power.
vvt is better but I can't test it
@@richardholdener1727 Find a way!
Great effin video. Wish I had or found this back in the day! A similar vid for the coyote family would be GREATLY appreciated
Man thank u so much for all that information such a kick ass video so much work involved and u gave it away for free thank u for that
I would do an LS2 in a pickup. Seems to be the best "compromise".
It's interesting that all the cams performed almost identically up to the mid 4000 rpm range, keep'em comming
Richard, I think one thing that should be noted here is that most guys especially F body guys are going to have a torque converter upgrade. In these 4L60E cars 3600-4000 stall converters are very common even on bolt on engine cars. Converters just pick these cars up so well it's amazing, frankly. So having said that, the low speed trade off that most are going to experience from some of the bigger cams is going to be a moot point when the converter is flashing so high. Just my thoughts brotha.
I have a LM7 with a LQ9 cam in a C10, it works well. I have also read that it’s the same specs as some LS1 cams.
Great comparison test! Thank you so much!
I still don't understand why the 122 LSA cams behave the way they do. With little overlap, I'd say that tuned exhaust header effects would be minimized however the header vs a non-tuned exhaust w/cats wasn't shown - so no way to know where the headers were doing their job. I would have thought the 122 would have killed top end and had little effect bottom end.
However that is not true. So it's like a complete re-thinking of how this stuff works is where I'm at.
NOTE: ADVANCE: I believe the LS9 may have 6* of Advance built in which would add bottom. QUESTION: Where all the cams installed AS-IS wherever the OE timing marks put them OR "straight up"? If some cams have advance built into them, then it's hard to relate results to specs.
INTAKE CLOSING?: Another way to look at the LS9 is that the cam is a "big" cam w/"lots" of duration where they simply reduced the overlap, so the exhaust opening and intake closing are the same as a traditional cam w/114 LSA. Could the loss of bottom end be due simply to the intake closing? I wouldn't think the headers are doing much at 2500 rpm.
FUEL ECONOMY?: The other question about these comparisons is what is the fuel economy at low throttle settings (cruising on the interstate?) I suspect the 122 might produce better fuel economy but we'll never know.
CENTRIFUGAL SUPERCHARGERS?: I'm thinking the 122 might be a good idea IF the 122 itself was not the cause of low end loss. IF the INTAKE CLOSING, that could be managed to maintain some low end torque for the centrifugal. (Of course the boost ratio as the square of rpm ratio has no bottom end torque by definition.)
A comparison with stock manifolds & cats (which ones of course) might reveal some interesting results as well as supercharged runs (what happens with a good NA cam w/SC?
The 1st high hp engine I saw in person when I was 16 was a twin turbo cadillac 500 near syracuse ny. I would have put that in a 70 nova or t bucket myself. But we were in awe. The car was probably 800 to 1200 hp. So I began my cadillac engine building years. I also did olds 455, sbc 350,400. 427,454.
What do you do about the Cadillac oiling issue to get any RPM out of them???
Now you should do a aftermarket cam shootout on a all stock lm7 🙂
Richard is putting together a "stage 2" shootout sloppy stage 2 vs the world! I'm looking forward to that one
@@montecarloss185 i cant wait lol i hope he runs em in a 4.8L lol as i put an elgin ss2 in a low mile 4.8L.
Prolly gonna run it like this then port an extra set of 862's i have and see the difference
In this same test in Car Craft magazine Richard ran three different Crane cams in this engine. The 200, 210, and 224. They all made much better power than the factory cams, with less torque lost down low.
@@middlesiderrider In that article, he lists the 200 cam as 200/200 113 LSA. All I see that Crane makes close to that is a 200/208. Do you think they just don't make the 200/200 anymore?, or was it a typo and meant to be the 200/208?
@@jakewade7388 I don't know but I'm sure the folks at Crane can tell ya. I think the big deal with that cam was the ability to use stock springs. Should still be able to if the lift is the same. That would be a nice cost savings if you're as broke as I am
Thanks Richard, you have so much research data. You need to sneak into the school of automotive machinists some day and reveal some of their engine wizardry.
You are the man! GOAT LS and then some! Thx dude!
Just pulled a stock LS3 cam from my new crate motor. Picked up an LC9 to fool around with. Thinking I’m going to gap the rings, delete the DOD and VVT, put the ls3 cam in, and make an ultra low buck turbo deal out of it.
Looking at the results, if you are building a lightweight chassis (like an S-10), the LS3 cam is the best balanced of all the stock cams, for maintaining good torque while making power on the cheap
Amazing content on your channel. Thank you for sharing your experience and expertise.
I think the HO 5300 cam is the same as the later LMG cam without DoD lobes. I had to use one when I deleted the Wife's 08 Tahoe, perfect swap, no tuning.
Another Great Video! Now We Need The Aftermarket Stage 2 Shootout! BTR, TSP, SS2, SummitPro, LJMS, LG Motorsports?
And Cam motion
Elgin by any other name...
Im curious with these junkyard ls’s with cam swaps how much can be made on 87 octane compared to 93. Ive only seen 1 article on it and they didnt compare it to high test. Would be interesting to see because it could save a lot of $$$$
ok last comment. Its worth mentioning that in order to swap the later Gen 4 cams into a Gen 3 block you need to run a later timing cover, gear and extend cam sensor harness. The Gen 3 engines got their cam signal off the cam itself and the later Gen 4 engines got their signal off the cam gear. Finally, running a 1 bolt cam in an early block can be a challenge since I don't think anyone makes a 24x gear with a 1 bolt.
I showed all the various cam gears and cam snouts in the original story. We used a Holley so none of that mattered
@@richardholdener1727 that's fine but most people wont be. Its worth a mention, hence why I mentioned it.
I appreciate these videos brother! I wish I was following you back in 17! I put my four-door together and went with the LS nine cam and I mentioned it before on a previous video yours it is a absolute turd Down low!!
Amazing amount of work! Thank you!
Test idea. Pick a cam. Change just the lsa starting at 108 and go up to 118 to see the difference. Just lsa change. Now that would be interesting. I tend to think a higher lsa makes a higher peak power and broader curve.
i did that already
Test an ASA cam and the LSX 454 crate cam in a 5.3 please
Poole's Performance asa cam is junk. It sounds sweet but makes terrible power and drive ability. And that’s in an ls1. In a 5.3 it’s going to suck even harder.
I believe the ls6 Z06 camshaft is different than a stock ls6 camshaft, I noticed a pickup in power in my 2000 z28 m6 once it was installed and retuned for that cam.
there are 2 LS6 cam grinds
@@richardholdener1727 make sure you get the later 405hp version
Richard Holdener do you know which one was tested?
Now do this same test with a 6.0 and heads that give you over 10.0:1 compression so we can see the effects with cubes and the correct compression zone for those cams.
same results-everything is elevated
6L heads will loose cylinder pressure. Go read some about it son.
@@raylaux8295 he clearly said "and heads that give you over 10.0:1 compression." He didn't not say to use the stock 6.0 317 casting heads. So maybe he should use a head with a smaller combustion chamber than what the 317's have...son
Please do a truck cam shootout with Texas Speed, BTR, etc... plus any "torque" cams that are out there. A discussion about how they would impact the need for a torque converter would be great as well. Lots of us want something that grabs you by the seat of the pants and sounds more aggressive without having to pull the engine and trans apart to maintain our drivability in town. I've ridden in a lot of trucks with cam upgrades that needed a new torque converter even though the manufacturer claimed they didn't.
I like stage 1 truck cams or something like the BTR torque cam
BADASS DATA in here Richard, THANKS!!
I would really like to see a cam comparison between a thumber style cam that has lots of overlap to something that has less like most “boost” style cams. In n/a and boost configuration. I been shopping for a cam and all the specs are close together besides lobe separation/overlap.
Thank you Richard! Love your channel. If you could come across the Scoggin Dickey “hot truck cam” to test. I just bought one for my LQ4 with 706 heads, long tube headers, TBSS intake with a 92mm throat. You have a lot of influence on this combo. It’s going in my 72 1 ton dually. Hoping the torque is there! Thanks again! You rock
Love your vids Richard. Lots of time and effort is put into your content. Much appreciated bud. 🙏🏻
H.O cam specs are 193/193 @.50 .482 in. duration 116Lsa
thnx
This is good. As I've said before, my thing is HP, not so much TQ, I don't care as much for low TQ under 4000rpm as long as I have decent TQ and good HP above it and can rev like Ralph Kramdem - "To The Moon!"
I’d like to see the lower rpm curve in your vids if possible. Noticed it started at 2250 or so this time, it’s nice to see as these motors can lug around down low. Shows stop start traffic stuff.
nmsmitto the wot power down that low doesn’t relate to how smooth it runs at part throttle. But I do agree that’s important to consider.
The 01 and up LQ4 or LQ9 cam has always been listed as 196/207 duration and not 196/201. I have admittedly never measured one because I didn't really care that much but I may now just for fun. Another fun fact is if that grind is indeed the 196/207 split it's almost identical to the static number on the VVT cam from the LY6 and L96 which GM states is 196/208.
All good info Richard. I would wonder how well they would stand up to a Sloppy Stage 2 cam, price would be about the same or maybe a little cheaper with the sloppy. Add a set of LS6 springs (cheap) and let the numbers talk, or with all your testing have you done it ?
how well the stock cams would stand up against an after market cam?
great info. LS3 cam and 1-5/8" headers will probably make 430 bhp with more torque than the LS7 cam. The Corvette cams are also meant for 11:1 compression vs 9.5:1 in the LM7. That's probably good for 450 bhp with stock idle and mpg is probably better than stock.
Just took the L33 5.3 HO cam out an engine and the specs I have for that cam is .482 L @.050 and 193 D 116 lsa
all of your videos are awesome man keep it goin!!!
Awsome video Rich as always.
Another great video. Would love to see some dyno runs of a vvt engine (say 2012 5.3) and the effects of modifying the cam angle via the tune.
That is actually a great idea.
I don't think the Holley ECU can control vvt.
@@allanb3222 Might be time to switch to the MS3.
Philip Mac Duffie or just run a factory ecm with hptuners. Guess I’m not familiar with the benefits of running the Holley setup tho
For the truck guys would be nice to see the truck cam comparison like the btr stage 1-4. I've seen you do up to I think stage 2 but would be cool to see what the "wilder" truck stuff actually runs vs non truck labeled cams
Good vid.. thanks for taking the time to test these cams
From what I saw the LS2 cam would be the winner in a daily driver on an extreme budget..
100%. I loathe giving up any bottom end on my daily LM7 Tahoe. That LS2 cam looks like a real winner.
Stalls help & cheap on LS setups, unlike my Hemi🤣
Hopefully he does an after market cam shootout for btr2,ljms2,sloppy stage 2, the comp 54-454-11 and many more that he uses 🤗
He already announced the ss2 vs the world test coming up
yep
I'm waiting on the big block big bang and the ss2 vs the world (which I hope includes the ls9 on the smaller side and a larger NA cam like an ms4)
I wanna see you throw some massive massive cam in a stock lm7, like a Texas speed magic stick 3/4 etc
Iv had a ms3 in a 5.3
@@woodgrain18 how was it?
I had an MS4 w/ 110LSA in a 383 LS1 and it was ridiculous. 1,100 RPM idle, backfires, poor vacuum, all until about 3,500 RPM. Came on like a turbo and would do a roll on burnout in third gear at a hundred on 275’s.
@@KreatorOfDeath1985 it was in a 3560 pound 4th gen z28 5.3 with decked 799's ms3 cam pac springs and trunion upgrade ls2 intake with a nick Williams TB and 2" long tube headers with 3 and half inch dynomax bullets with turndowns bolted two the headers T56 speed 12 bolt rear end with a 4.30 gear it was actually pretty stout for what it was especially up top it was a lot of fun to play around with on the street and track I think I revved to around 7300 or 7400rpm and shifted at 7000 car also had a nitrous outlet plate kit jetted at 150 on a good pass it would run mid to lowish 6's on the bottle and low 7's in the 1/8
@@TheTmshuman i had a ms3 in a sbe lm4 aluminum 5.3 and it was a damn good running car o never had any vacuum problems I think mine would idle around 8-900 rpm
I would love to see a LS 5.3 truck cam shootout, Comp, Cam Motion, Tick, BTR, TSP. I would also like to see a test done on the effects of valve lift. say .500, .550, .600 on stock 862/706 heads.
That would be an awesome video. Lets see who makes the best truck cam
I had a tsp stage 3 low lift cam 216/220 .550 lift it did well for its size.
I wish you had run the LM7 cam with the 1.8 rockers to compare against the entire field....... the rocker upgrade on the smaller cam may have been the most cost effective power without major sacrafice in the torque curve
I wish you could've done another pull with the ls6 cam. I've ran an LS6 (02-04) with ls2 243 heads, fast 78 and all bolt ons and tune for over a decade and 80k plus miles (shortblock now has 186k, untouched). A/F is dead on 12.4-12.6 throughout powerband and i run 4.10s. Goal was to have a c5z under a ws6 shell. Yeah, there's huge loss in tq down low vs stock ls1 and plus long tubes take away low end tq also.. but the 4.10s helped a little. But after 4500 rpm's, she really picks up. Like a 100 shot or something.
LONG TUBES DO NOT LOSE LOW SPEED TORQUE-THEY ADD IT
Thx for the comparisons on the factory cams.....next maybe a video comparison on Summit LS truck cams...
I'd like to see a comparison between cams with the same specs with differing LSA numbers like a 108 vs 114 . Just throwing ideas out there.
I did that
@@richardholdener1727 oh dang I gatta do some searching. My bad!
Lots of cam issues can be fixed with a proper matching of components. A tork converter should be about 700 rpm past its beginning powerband.
I have herd that the non DOD L33 cam is a good upgrade but I haven’t really look into it
Good video thanks keep up the good work
He ran that cam. It lost 4lb-ft at 2500rpm, only started making more at 4500, and made a total of +12lb-ft and +14hp at 6200rpm. Maybe worth it if you like swapping cams and already have one...
Ya not with the time