Firing the Moncrieff Disappearing Gun at Crownhill Fort
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- Опубликовано: 17 сен 2024
- The first firing of the Moncrieff Disappearing Gun at Crownhill Fort since 2010. The gun and carriage have been restored to working order by a team of volunteers. This firing took place on Firepower Day, a public event that runs every May at the Fort
This Gun will be fired at a special event on the evening of Wednesday 10th May 2023. Tickets will go on sale at Easter
Is this animated?
@@Coreybug no?
@@Coreybug is your brain working?
can we shoot it at my exes house?
@@dah9vandals lol
So, just want to see if I've got this right. Back when this gun would have been in use, you would have had a full team working to reload the gun and raise it up but you didn't have to worry about bringing it back down because the recoil of the gun did it for you. That's actually pretty clever!
You are 100% correct
Means crew are protected from small arms etc while reloading!
Genius. . .
You wouldn't have needed to raise it all the way either due to its bordering on counter weight design. Only about half way before it went into place.
An artillery piece crew is a wonder to watch. Every movement is choreographed; the choregraphy is based on speed and safety.
There are drill manuals that specify each position and the duty of each artilleryman.
... boaring ... why not a full load ... my muzzleloderrifle is louder!
I realize that the firinmg is just a small portion of the original charge but if you put in some wadding it will give an actual bang rather than a "Whoosh." A bag of dry corn (maize) meal will give just enough resistance to give a good bang but no down range projectile (it MUST be dry). Also, using a welding mixture of oxygen and acetylene win the chamber will give a very satisfying bang with practically zero internal pressure.
Dont think they can do this as crownhill is surrounded by houses
Damp squid :)
Noise. Ordinance.
Ordnance
@@skinniestfatman5641 Don't see why not.
Spoiler - does not disappear
It has no projectile
Unfortunately blank charges do not produce the intended recoil. If we were to load a projectile the residents of suburban Plymouth might have cause for complaint!
Id be afraid that thing would explode
This comment almost makes up for it not disappearing.
It’s called that because, with a projectile firing out if it, the opposite reaction would be gun recoil in which it would send the gun below the wall into its resting position where the enemy could not see it.
A similar gun was purchased by New Zealand to defend Wellington city it sat for nearly fifty years and in the 1930s a scrap dealer turned up in a small truck took the base and they buried the gun my best guess is that it's under the pohutakawa trees near the steps to the war memorial . I was drilling for geo technical data and nearly every hole an old boy would approach me and ask if I've found the gun yet
how big is that gun?
Do they know if they managed to lift the gun out, or they managed to tip it over the wall, when it was in an upraised position.
do people know what direction it went down the hill, if it did (what is the chance that it might have managed to get all the way down (mass in movement)
What is the chance for he come back at a later time and dug it up again (metal is money)
@@heuhen apparently tipped the gun off straight into a pre dug hole but your right that was 90 years ago he could have came back for it shame really
That's a crying shame.
So are you saying they sold the gun to a scrap dealer or that the scrap dealer stole it?
@@JasonWW2000 the gun was located in buckle street which was an army base and many years later became a police headquarters only 20m away from where the gun would have been they were still hanging people for crimes so I'm assuming the scrap dealer was a decent chap
It's remarkable to think that in a combat situation this weapon which can deal such devastating firepower would be exposed to its enemy for only seconds at a time before vanishing to relative safety for reload. The gun would be rolled up and almost immediately recoiled back down as it fired.
The safety was only relative. The “bombs bursting in air” would have put a lot of shrapnel down in that pit.
Wouldn't have made it accurate, you'd be lucky to hit your target after firing hundreds of rounds.
these guns had a rate of fire of : 1 rounds per minute, sometimes 0.5 rounds per minute. (for both 8 inch version and 16 inch version), while German 15 inch guns had a firing rate of 2.5 rounds per minute (as standard). For example HMS Warspite 15 inch guns had a rate of fire of 2 rounds per minute (but there have been situation, where there was reports of 2 rounds per minute.
@@heuhen speaking of guns half a century newer is of little concern, like saying how obsolete todays military is compared to the new 2070 military in 50 years
@@machintelligence while somewhat true the guns of the 4 fortified islands in Manila bay fired almost up to the last days before surrender in may 1942 . Some were knocked out, but not most.
Many of them were same type as this. Also a large contingent of 12 inch sea coast mortars.
The problem was they were made to fire at ships coming from South China Sea, not land targets. Much of the ammunition was useless for that.
Amazing that the original gun, AND ORIGINAL CREW are manning it. They look great for 210 years old
Pretty neat, if a little disappointing. I wish we still had some of our disappearing guns here at Fort Stevens on the Oregon coast.
I wish we still had some of our disappearing guns here at Fort Crockett on the Gulf coast.
Fort Casey& Fort Worden in Washington
@@lanedexter6303I immediately thought of Fort Worden as well. I love that place. So strange that we both found this 4-year-old video on the same day.
@@lanedexter6303 There are examples at Fort Casey, but only empty bunkers at Fort Worden. BTW, the guns at Fort Casey were not original to the fort but were imported from the Philippines after WW2. If you go there you will find damage to them from American aircraft. The breach blocks are also missing as they were dropped in the ocean on the way to WA.
@@FishKepr interesting, thanks! I remember going to Fort Casey years ago, and being fascinated by the mechanism of those guns. Too bad we can never see them in operation. Those forts could have truly commanded that strait before aircraft carrier warfare evolved.
By the time it is ready to fire, the gunners had forgotten why they wanted to fire it.
Was gonna say....even without all the explanation, civilian volunteers, your target better not be moving too fast...
A trained crew can do it a heck of a lot faster.
🤙😂
Considering how state of the art this was when it was made, with a fully trained crew this would have been a rather rapid firing piece of artillery for its day.
Just some extra info:
Some British disappearing 8 inch guns had a firing rate of 1 round/minutes sometimes 0.5 round/minutes. The weird things is the bigger 16 inch guns version had a firing rate of right around 1 round/minute. The rate of fire was a big disadvantage of these guns, specially when a Battleship 15 inch guns, like those on HMS Warspite firing 2 round/minutes. Have heard stories about they do 3 rounds/minutes, in some situation, but 2 rounds/minutes are the normal for battleships. A British 8 inch cruiser guns could fire between 3 to 6 rounds/minute. HMS Belfast 6 inch guns had between 6-8 rounds/minutes. (Note: Nelson class battleship, had 1.5 rounds/minute) (Note: German Bismarck class battleships 15 inch guns had 2.5-3 rounds/minute, while WW1 Baden class battleships fired 2.5 rounds a minute)
Okay. When you realize, the Dahlgrens on the Monitor...fired 500lb. Shot...and this gun is still a monster.
When you realize, 10 years ago buy powder and caps
I think the Yamato fired shells weighing over 3,000lb and could accurately hit targets over 20 miles away. Naval gun technology is awesome
@@lanequick7451 what is amazing is we went from muzzle loading balls of solid iron, to precision guided munitions, within 100 years.
My grandfather served in WW2 and he always told me he'd rather go back to the Pacific front again before he'd fight in something like the Civil War. He always said "I never had to stand in a line and and watch a cannon lay fire on on my comrads. There were a lot of times I felt helpless but I don't think anything would make me feel more helpless than that." I think it was a way that he coped with his service because he always talked about the different kinds of wars he wouldn't want to fight in and would rather do his service all over again
Just think someone thought that whole thing up with no computer to help. Amazing stuff
Yeah, a pivoting gun, thats really remarkable indeed
@@Kinsanth_ my little ponie pfp, opinion discarded.
@@airmanfpv964 another person, which doesnt like the taste of other people. You really should learn to at least tolerate others, when you are incapable of accepting them, that would show mininal respect to others. And your lashing out on others is a sign, that you just want others to feel more bad than yourself. How about working out your own issues instead of bothering others? That would really help out in the long run
@@Kinsanth_ well, i cant say much can i, not only is my pfp anime but its yuri and genshin impact yuri
Though i did get bored of the game
Average RUclips argument
I can't believe how many people did not comprehend what was said during the video
😳🙃🙄
Not every one can understand a foreign language...
@@Triggernlfrl but they know it well enough to comment in it?
@@Triggernlfrl He says, in English
I remember going here as a kid and walking through the tunnels, struggling with an Enfield rifle. Such a beautiful place to visit, hopefully I'll get down there again this year.
I was watching this video and then my neighbour came and we watched it together. He said that this video changed his life and touched his heart. I then went and rented a projector in a big field and all my villagers watched it and it changed their lives too. We all are so grateful.
Thank You for this video….
What?
I was under the impression that there was a counterweight which automatically raised the gun into battery when a brake / lock was released rather than having to 'pump' it up into battery.
There is a 5.5 ton counterweight at the front of the Gun, the two people on the wooden bars get the system to its tipping point where gravity takes over
I guess the goal is that it stays down easier once the recoil puts it there. Otherwise if you miss the brake then it's stuck up in the danger zone and you have to "pump it down"
I wanted to know what this was for years and now RUclips magically supplies the answer. Amazing.
This was absolutely amazing I'd love to have seen it fire an actual projectile. As a former soldier nothing warms the heart more than seeing an old gun like this from the war still being able to fire an actual projectile. Is there ANY way I could come down to the fort and we can fire an actual projectile out of this beauty?
We would love to see the Gun fire a projectile but given its location in the middle of a city that will never happen
@@crownhillfort2061 oh my yea I thought the Fort was further away from any cities my bad! Still an amazing sight to witness such an amazing piece of engineering and craftsmanship
Was based in Crownhill Fort early 70s, fantastic Fort ❤️🇬🇧
The thing I hate about the modern world, is that we never do the awesome things we would all love to see. I know all of us would like to see that gun fire a real non exploding projectile. I always get bummed out with these neutered displays
To be fair it is in the middle of a city...firing a projectile in any direction will kill a lot of people...
@@dogsnads5634 isnt that a naval gun?
Wouldnt it be facing the ocean?
@@loganwalker8537 yes I say let one fly blody hell life just isn't fun anymore all you'll do is kill some fish ha ha !
A big cork with a string attached would work. 🤭
@@dogsnads5634 this is a navel gun........ That shoots at ships....... In the ocean........
Obviously 99% of the people watching this have no idea what was involved with loading and firing heavy artillery back in the old days. Yes, it took work. No, you could not fire very fast. They expected that and felt it was worth it for the huge damage done on each shot and the long range. The 11 inch guns on the USS Monitor took like 15 minutes to load. A typical naval gun on a normal mount recoiled on its carriage and had to be hauled back into firing position with block and tackle every time you fired it. This was actually easier.
We definitely have it easier with the M109 paladin.
Never ceases to amaze me, these groups, all dedicated, preserving and demonstrating great bits of kit, then they go and find the least able in their group to do the camera work.
That’s pretty cool I can’t imagine there are that many disappearing mounts left in the world
There's actually dozens of them. We just keep losing sight of them.
@@con.troller4183
You mean ..... they keep disappearing? 🙊
@@jabberwocky1707
ba-DUM... pish!
I loved it it was wonderful I never seen nothing like it I have no words
You actually had 16 words....just sayin....
amazing it looks very similar to our guns at port fairy Victoria Australia which were ever only fired once at anger. and that was at a pub.
i dont know the full story but it was late 1800's and warrnambool was having training / competition for there gun crews firing out to sea, port fairy afterward when to the kirkstall pub? and basically got kicked out, they were a little drunk and annoyed and went back to their guns and loaded a shot and fired it towards the pub they were kicked out of.
from what i was told the shot landed a few hundred yards short of the pub. (it was a several km shot).
im so glad im a port fairy local :)
There are other disappearing guns at Queenscliffe & Fort Nepean, on both ends of the capes around Port Phillip Bay. I'm not sure if the gun itself is still at Fort Nepean, but the emplacement is certainly there.
😂
The Port Fairy guns are 80 pr Armstrong muzzle loaders. The one in the video appears to be a 110 pr breech loader, also Armstrong.
Cover your ears! psst lol. The 110 pounder Armstrong breech loading rifled gun. Unfortunately a failure. The shell was put in, then gunpowder in bags, the sliding wedge was closed against the breech, the screw was turned to hold it in place, the gun was fired, the gases leaked back past the beech choking the gunners, then after a few firings the breech sliding block fractured and blew out of the gun killing some more crew. So the British navy went back to the muzzle loading rifled gun.
Today many guns use the sliding wedge type beech, BUT the powder is in brass (or is it bronze) casings, when the power ignites, the casing expands against the side of the barrel sealing it. Often seen in field howitzers.
The firing is AWESOME at ¼ speed.
I have a feeling the enemy is going to know something is up when the gun slowly creeps up.
"Oi!!! Look over there, a gun a popping up!"
I imagine a full Royal Artillery crew would bring it into position a damn sight faster, Also by the looks of it this may be black powder, so it would cause a rather large cloud of smoke that would conceal the gun, I saw one comment saying it can manage around 1 shot per minute, So I doubt the smoke would clear that quickly, especially after a few shots. Also the enemy assaulting the fort would have more things to worry about, plus the Fort is uphill of any assaulting army, so you probably wouldn't get that good of a look at the thing when in the firing position.
@god is dead I don't know much about this place. However near Victoria, BC, Canada(or if a person knows CFB Esquimalt), there's an old British defensive post. It's a historic site know, Fort Rodd Hill. I toured around there and there are several spots similar to this pit. Perhaps that fort had similar guns to the one shown in this video. 🤔
Yeah suspect it was tad louder in service. Is that one of those projectiles that the target could see coming. Can't imagine.
Excellent display old boy.
I mean, just a great video!! Never seen this, always wanted too. Thank you soooo much!
Fired like a champ. Still got it. Really cool.
There is a system of three forts along the Delaware River that had these guns, Fort Mott in New Jersey, Fort Delaware which is on a island in the river and Delaware city in Delaware, I think any ships trying to get up the river would have been in for a bad time.
Fort DeRussy in Waikiki, Hawaii had 14" Naval guns, not disappearing, and in a much larger and deeper emplacements. After the attack on Pearl Harbor they were test fired and ended up blowing out many windows at neighboring hotels and businesses. They were never fired again and removed in 1950. Wish they had kept one for historical purposes.
This kind of advantage could still be useful in many modern conflicts
The reason they fell out of fashion is largely due to planes and improvements in naval gunnery fire rate.
Not having the disappearing gun disappear is unsatisfactory but still cool tech and video!
According to the late great weapons author Ian Hogg the man in charge of coastal guns around the US shores used his position to order loads of disappearing gun mounts because they were of a design he had shares in, so making money over the best interest of his country. He also had a personal dislike of Lewis of "Lewis Gun" fame and had American troops going to the Western front in WW1 denied their machine guns for a notably poor French weapon, until he was removed and their Lewis Guns were returned. What a patriot!
Do they still have an ordinance for it? Would love a live fire demonstration of the range it has
It's in the middle of the city of Plymouth...
@@dogsnads5634 so?
@@Pineapple-co6fe sooo, what goes up must come down
@@RandomThingPosted exactly
Yup,they just posted it on top of comment chain
was looking forward watching the reload process
Fantastic to see the real thing - we have lots of these emplacements round here, but no guns.
Last of the summer wine crew fires a huge gun!
That laugh at 0:20 though 🤣🤣🤣
"A disappearing gun, a gun mounted on a disappearing carriage, is an obsolete type of artillery which enabled a gun to hide from direct fire and observation. The overwhelming majority of carriage designs enabled the gun to rotate backwards and down behind a parapet, or into a pit protected by a wall, after it was fired" - Wikipedia
Glad to see the directors of the Blair witch project still making movies
Someone should’ve prematurely yelled out FIRE! 😂😂😂
As them Yanks say, fire in the hole... Hahaa
My God, Its Cpl. Jones from Dads Army!!!
Fort Rodd Hill near Victoria BC had three disappearing mount guns, intended to guard the roughly 20-mile wide Strait of Juan de Fuca from unwanted intrusions. They were still in place in WW2, due to a lack or replacements. Unfortunately, none are left for display in what is now a park.
Crowd forms to watch flatulent gun relieve itself and listen to people talk about what is not going to happen. It’s a health and safety orgasm to be proud of.
Where exactly is this place? Country? State? Continent?
This is Crownhill Fort, Plymouth, UK.
@@curlybrownliz
Thank You! Quite interesting!
Crown Hill Fort is located at Plymouth which is in Devon UK.
Fifty houses are leveled. "Johnny?! Whut thu?!" "Oops, Pop. I dropped me bowling ball in there this morning. I meant to tell you. Really I did..."
Disappearing Gun: simple cannon of yesteryear.
I'd love to see this gun firing in a semi realistic scenario, instead I get to see the home guard firing blanks that cause zero recoil or a "hidden gun".
Ole Jerry wouldn’t get out of the firing zone so they had to delay…bless his heart - he kept climbing onto the gun lol
"Squirrel!!! It's heading straight for us!!!"
When he said they'll need volunteers to bring it back down I couldn't have raised my hand fast enough!
Like that nerd in homeroom who sat up front! "Oh Oh Oh pick me pick me!!!"
Witam. Wooo ładnie wystrzeliło. Jeden z fajniejszych filmów amatorskich jakie widziałem. Pozdrawiam.
This type of cannon earn the nickname “Crawling Tiger” in my local language.
Oh hey they got it working. I came down here with the Palmerston Artillery volunteers in 2013 but sadly it was very stiff and no matter what we tried it was near impossible to move. I think we came to the conclussion the paint on the gun had fouled the gear teeth.
‘Well done Corporal Jones!’
Good video thanks a lot. May I suggest an intro to advise people of gun type, location etc ?
Thanks for the suggestion, Landmark has a digital content manager and I am sure she can work her magic on this video
Well the gun type is in the description and if I had to guess it’s at crow hill fort, hence the uploaded name
From the main title and description we can determine the following:
Gun Type: Moncrieff Disappearing Gun
Location: Crownhill Fort (Plymoth).
The gun itself is a replica as all Moncrieff guns were dismantled in the early 1900s. It's a 7-in gun, and the original gun had a weight of 7-tons.
From were i live an old fort have this type of guns its been used in ww2 its much bigger and longer barrel, some people call it *peek a boo* gun
NOVA, he said it wasn't gonna go down because they weren't firing a projectile. Pay attention. Now, I like how he went up the first time and said this was the most dangerous place because he could be shot at yet it took him a long damn time to hook up whatever he needed to hook up. What makes no sense is why didny they just put armor where the guy needed to stand.
You realize this man is old, right?
the armor need to be the same level as the wall, then what's the point?
Notice the gun at 'disappear' stage.
Portable shield 🛡️ makes more sense.
At 'appear' stage, in battle, probably he do it real quick while crotching or using long stick
He was puting in the fuse through the priming hole into the powder in the gun I think. That would be done when the gun was in the lowered position I would think in a war situation.
I had a toy version of this gun concept back in the early 50's.
The faint sound of birdsong before the gun fired felt quite poignant
Is the cargo shorts and dad shirt period correct
I've seen old film of these, and we used to some of these, albeit bigger, at Fort McArthur in California. But, I had no idea there was one of these that was still operational.
1:01 That toddler is in for one big wakeup call.🤣
Neat design! Do you know of any such designs ever accidentally fired before being put in the raised position? I can imagine that would have been a very... unpleasant experience for the gun crews.
Lad should be shown how to wear a beret at the start 😳
As a Mclean, I approve of firing upon any McDonald’s
This is hilarious. File under Monty Pythonesque.
The entire point of this gun was that it would be fast and nimble, firing on the enemy and then disappearing before counter-battery could return fire.
The recoil of the gun actuated the 'hiding' mechanism that retracted the gun vertically into it's hidy-hole.
The pace at which it would have been fired in WW2 in contrast to the video - I am sure was quite different.
Good bloody show tho lads - hopefully you can now get back to the barracks canteen for tea and biscuits!!
Unfortunately, these guns largely fell out of fashion in WWI with the invention of aerial warfare and with improvements to naval gunnery. The only time at which they were used in WWII afaik was in the Philippines in the old and outdated batteries.
Beautiful device. Seems it would have a very slow reload time.
It would be much faster with a crew younger that 90.
Lots of work, little bang
Armstrong 40pdr breech-loading gun
Close! With a 7" bore this one would fire 110lb shells
That was the small field gun, this is the 110 pounder naval gun. It turned out to be a failure.
By the time the cannon is up, the target has moved a couple kilometer
Title depicted firing of the gun at 4:35
The FDC must have a easy job of giving data for targets. If it never moves they probably just have a bunch of pre arranged coordinate’s.
The only thing that disappeared was my time
Old guys are working. Youngsters are filming. welcome to the new century
With an actual projectile, this would be a great day at the range.
If they used enough powder and a live round it probably would disappear!
Interesting stuff. I'd like to go see all those forts one of these days.
I saw these at Fort Scratchley, in Australia
Considering all the moving part that thing didn't budge when it was shot!
My surname is Moncrief. This was cool
That's kind of cool actually when was this machinery built? Pre auto pistol? I feel like it's an early show of that sort of mechanism.
The main period of prevalence for disappearing gun carriages is the 19th century, so aye.
@@Yawyna124🤗 John moses browning was apparently very keen
A brilliant contraption, killing many birds with one stone
It's such a shame these forts in this city have been allowed to fall into ruin, with people using drugs, littering and lighting fires from plastic in the bunker areas. It would have been a good cash generator for tourism and great history. I loved exploring crownhill fort back in the day.
Without purpose these Forts are vulnerable to vandalism and decay. Fortunately Crownhill is a self-sustaining entity that has a viable future
@@crownhillfort2061 I hope so. It is a disgrace what is happening to this one great nation.
I guarantee this video does no justice at all on how loud this actually would have been in person. I bet it was deafening!!
May I ask what the "two-six" exclamation stands for when hauling a gun? I think it has to do with smoothbore guns of the age of sails, but I can't find any info...
A navy hauling isum. Instead of saying the timing as “two three !“ , which is what the army did . The Royal Navy thought they were twice as good, so they said “two six!”……….,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_six_heave
@@btbplanevids Thanks for the reference!
Two and six were members of a numbered gun crew,so they said two six to pull the gun forward after loading in a wooden sailing ship.then it became the norm for any thing in the Royal navy that required muscle
Intriguing weapon system
You guys ain't got the cannon BALLZ to shoot that gun.
this has me puzzled. It is called a disappearing gun. But, in what sense? Disappear from sight? Disappear from threats of incoming projectiles? IF CONCEAL FROM SIGHT: that means the large guns were aimed in the same fashion as a hand gun via sights. i.e no gun battles occurred at night? Ship guns were not aimed by spotters nor coordinates? IF CONCEAL FROM THREAT: the barrier wall seems too shallow. The battleship guns seem to typically fire at about a 30 degree angle. Which means that the projectile at the target is falling at about a 45 degree angle. That barrier wall seems too shallow to help the gun and crew to disappear from danger. Am I missing something?
Against the modern guns it wouldn't last but this was from 1880's. Most naval or land guns, of that time, would take a while to reduce that gun and it would be hard to target the area until it was up to fire. And the black powder smoke would also help hide it. I am not sure when the range finders came out.
You're missing the fact they're shooting nothing but powder and thus not causing any recoil which would drive the gun back down, hence "disappearing".
Being in a fort up on a hill or cliff, the gun would have to be raised up to fire down on the enemy ship passing by. All loading and setting up can be done in relative safety, minimising exposure of the gun crew.
Who else thought the recoil would make it sink back down into the original position?
Recedes back into giant holster gun*
I cant imagine that it was very accurate to be honest.
Deadly game of "peak-a-boo"
I was stationed at Crownhill (Seaton) barracks with the RM back in the 80's. Has that gun always been there? If so, it's a pretty far from the shore
On a completely different note.
Who on earth thinks bringing a small (probably toddler) child to the firing of a naval gun is a good idea?
Have they never heard of hearing damage?
(Pun intended)
there's these amazing things called "earmuffs" that provide hearing protection.
When you and a buddy want to play hide the howitzer