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@@Motorsportsgeek the point is, if you drive the b58b30 about the same way as the b46b20 they are about as econimical. the diffference is, that one engine has a least 100bhp more and at least in the current generation a lot faster.
It baffles me that some people in the comments seem to be offended that a car like this exists with a lesser, more affordable engine option. Suggesting that if people can't afford the top model, they should just opt for a completely different car altogether. Sounds childish
@@LeDechaineI hate that saying. I have a Saab 2.0t 150hp and a Ford Mondeo 2.0 tcdi 130hp. I don't have fun in any of them. Driving my M4 on the Nürburgring was the most exhilarating and fun I've ever had in my life. I drove 250 and it wasn't even on the main straight and I drove 300kph on the autobahn. Potent cars are more fun for me because you push yourself not the car. It takes you out of your comfort zone.
2 litre and 3 litre options don't bother me nearly as much as them being BMW 2 litre and 3 litre. It's the same with the GR86 - it's a Subaru, not a Toyota. Same with the Supra - it's a BMW, not a Toyota.
Nobody should ever forget Toyota’s successful JGTC Supras were powered by a turbocharged 4 Cylinder. (Not a 3SGTE, 503E also called the 3SGT but they are not the same engine even remotely, both are great just different).
@@jimmynickelz Yeah, nah - there were only 2 options in the Mk4, 2JZ-GE naturally aspirated, and 2JZ-GTE, same engine but turbocharged. Don't comment if you have no idea what you are talking about. That being said, the 2JZ-GE was pretty weaksauce - IIRC it only put out something like 170bhp - I had the same engine in a Lexus SC300, and it was a slug to be sure.
Tyre industry insider knowledge: OEM tyres may look and have the same model written in them as ones you buy aftermarket off the shelf, but they are usually an "F" model (factory), that tyre companies do deals with car manufactures, to look ones you buy aftermarket, but are made of a cheaper, harder rubber. So your Pilot Sport 5s that came on the car, as not as good as the Pilot Sport 5s you would replace them with that you buy at the tyre shop. So don't judge a tyre model by the ones that come factory on a car. Same in the motorcycle tyre world. Look for an F printed somewhere on the sidewall. But now tyre manufacturers are now totally hiding the fact that they are a cheaper version of a tyre that looks identical to ones you buy aftermarket. So if you don't know, now you know. Been in the tyre industry for 15 years.
Wow, I never knew that, that's really interesting 🤔 I had pirellis on a car from new once and I thought the car just didn't handle well. When it came time to change the tyres I chose a different make and all of a sudden the car handled much better! I've avoided pirellis like a plague ever since!!😮
Interesting but I would add that there are examples of Premium tyre brands that supply OE tyres and are marked for meeting the Car manufacturer specifications. For example N0 or N1-Porsche, MO-Mercedes, AO -Audi etc. Even Aston Martins marketing department were recently celebrating about Aston getting their first own spec tyres.
@@jerrys. Yup, but that's bespoke tyre models for certain high end cars. Not ya normal 225/40R18 for example. Tyre's that make up the major tyre models that make the bulk of a company's range.. e.g. the tyres that come on say a new Subaru Impreza, or Suzuki GSXR600, that are a common size. Those vehicles tyres will be slightly crapper than the exact same model tyre on the shelf at the tyre store. Usually a slightly cheaper compound or some other cost saving measure, even though to the tyre layman, they appear to be the exact same tyre.
Definitely! Looks great with matte black wheels too. Thats one thing I love about the G80 M3. They have those thick sidewalls with very nice looking matte black wheels and wide fenders, which makes them look quite reminiscent of a GT3 car imo. Much more serious and racey appearance than most other performance cars. Too damn bad about that nose.
@@LoothansaYeah, BMW messed up on the front end (as well as the rectangle flatscreen they stick in the new interiors). It’s not like the front is terrible, it’s just a poor design that doesn’t make much sense (did they not consult with actual people first?)
People need to be educated. I've been into cars for 25 years and used to buy all the Car Buyers Guides each year. In all the guides since the 90s, most cars were available with a WIDE range of engine size options, as countries have different regulations and rules, and people have different budgets. Many cars always had a range of small engines, mid size and higher performance larger engine options. Why are people baffled that some cars come with smaller engine options ?
@@devanman7920 People want to gate keep sports cars and hero cars. Like the debate between real amg and fake amg, Real M and M sport. Like just because the m340i is a cheaper version of the m3, doesn't make it an awful car.
Not sure if BMW is willing to introduce a new 5 cyl lmao. I doubt they want to take the shine away from their straight 6's. Maybe someone can swap an audi straight 5 into it.
it would be the first ever normal gasoline rwd 5 cylinder car in the world lol edit: the only two "non normal" ones that exist are a Donkervoort and the newer KTM x-bow
@@bankruptsee 6cyl makes it more of a GT/touring car...imo 4cyl keeps a "roadster" appeal...even when its HEAVY AF XD couple hundred pounds more than the typical car in that class/past verisons. The b58 is another 300 pounds making it damn near 3800 pounds. Either way im not the biggest fan of the newer/gen z4 though to each their own and im sure its still a fun/great time as a daily under the cali sun.
Until you've owned a Toyota for a while you don't really understand what "reliability" is all about. The engineering and testing that goes into their cars is astounding. I could fill my '94 MR2 Turbo up with petrol, check the tyre pressures and fluids and basically drive it around Australia with absolute certainty that it would not break. Glad you did this follow up test, James and, yes, the GR-86 is indeed a fine car. Thanks for posting!
4-pot rwd configurations are not a rarity to japanese manufacturers (some even quite successful) see Nissan Silvia, 240sx, Toyota AE86, Mazda Miata, Honda S2000!
@@TheImperfectGuy the supra has a totally different wheelbase and track no? Also probably handles and brakes better. Lighter does not always equal better road holding/confidence in bends
I love the Supra, say what you like about the BMW bits and bobs but for me, it's the look of the thing. It's such a wild looking beast, almost has shades of TVR. Love it.
It does look good, but it really is just a BMW in every way. I can't really understand why Toyota felt the need to partner with BMW like this, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, since having a BMW with superior resale value because it wears a sticker on its shirt that says, "Hi, my name is: TOYOTA" sounds like a great investment to me.
@bubbleman2002 It's simple - cost to develope an engine like the B58. If Toyota had to build an i6 engine from scratch, the resulting car would cost at least $80,000. And remember, sales projections were never intended to be high. Toyota learned their lesson, as did Mazda, Dodge, Honda, and Nissan. Also, Gazoo Racing's suspension tuning made the Supra a much better handling car vs. the BMW Z4. There is no BMW that is like the Supra. It has been received almost like an exotic car on the street. It really stands out!
@@newblackdog7827 Actually, a recent Consumer Reports magazine's overall ranking of auto manufacturers selling vehicles in the US had BMW in first place, based upon: Performance Quality Reliability Ride comfort Safety Efficiency Toyota/Lexus is still ranked #1 for reliability and quality.
@@davepaturno4290 Did Toyota ever consider they already have a perfectly good V6 platform that's very receptive to forced induction? "b-b-but it's not a supra without a straight six", but it literally isn't a supra BECAUSE it has a straight six, Toyota doesn't make those anymore, you said it yourself. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
wasn't the whole "Supra" namesake itself because of the then named Celica coupe getting an I6 upgrade over the I4? I'd put Celica badges on this for laughs.
Not quite the same as just putting an i6 in a Celica. It wouldn't be accurate to call this 2.0 "Supra" anything but it's name plate - all Celicas came as 2+2 or 5 seaters. That said, the first 2 gens of Celica Supras had unique longer hoods, fenders, radiator core support, and front clips to accommodate the longer engine also, so this thing would have to be shortened to fit the 2.0 in order to be a "Celica." I hate BMW's even though I own one (e46), and I would never own this gen Supra. Very glad to have rescued an 83 Celica Supra from a sandy rat-filled tomb - rather put 40k into it over the next decade than finance anything new.
Might not be so good long term though, with BMW's poor history with I4 engines - not sure if this "B48" has the same issues as older I4's from BMW - but I've seen too many BMW I4's fail to basic engineering flaws too quickly to trust them. The 3 litre though, does seem to have a decent rep.
Is this the B48 4 cylinder? Because if it is, there are plenty of videos out there showing that engine tuned up to 500hp without too much trouble. And I thought the whole point of a Supra was the tuning culture no? I don't know I don't own one and have no plans on one but if it is that engine it might be a pretty good option.
@@Beer_Dad1975 Yeah fair enough although the B48 has been around since at least 2014 I think so you get 10 years of data if you want. There is this guy: ruclips.net/video/jd3dFGIPLxQ/видео.html He has a bunch of videos of various B48 tunes. He reckons it's good. And there are others that's just a quick search result. I'd be tempted if I could up the power to those sorts of levels for sensible money. Don't even need to go that crazy. 500hp is probably unnecessary. Could do 400 for example and at that point that's pretty good value I would think no? AGain I don't know since I don't own one and won't but it is an intriguing proposition. And if you have a Supra but don't tune it is that a bit of wasted potential?
@@Screaming-Trees Cool, definitely not saying they can't make a reliable I4, just that I'm ignorant of them - which TBF, I've mostly only dealt with older BMW's. Now if they could only make a good V8...
@@Screaming-TreesB48 is a a 4 cylinder. So is the N20. Both are tuneable and reliable besides the N20 charge pipes. B48 is essentially BMW's 3SGTE. If you go down the history of the 3SGTE, you'll realize that Toyota produced it as a high performance race engine and was heavily defined for the street. Examples are the Le Man 3S, the 3S used to break the record at pikes peak that took a paved road to beat, and JGTC
Over here the 2L auto was the poseur car. It looks the same but is more suited to commuting or ‘flow’ roads. The ‘girlfriend’ car. They were considerably cheaper but are rare enough that that helps keep used prices up. I live in a military town and there are quite a few of them because Marines could better afford them with deployment money and then soup them up afterwards. All you see here are BRZs, Supras, Mustang GTs and Camaros. And of course lots of jacked up trucks.
I don't think anything killed the supra other than the price. The audience for the supra was the kids who grew up with the JDM scene, grew up with Fast and Furious/Need for speed, or grew up with gran turismo etc. The supra came in at 46,000 dollars before dealer markups, and that's the 4cyl. Almost the entire target audience for the car was priced out of the car, so all you had left were people that would just buy a Benz or BMW instead. None of these auto manufacturers realize that the sports car market is best sold to people aged 18-30, and most of these people don't have the income to buy one of these. Many of the people that can afford them now have spouses and are getting Toyota Highlanders instead of the cars they wanted when they were young. They're trying to get money out of people that just don't have it. They should have just taken the Corolla platform, put a 2 door body on it, welded some stiffening bars and put the old Camry v6 inside of it.
@@davidburke4101 didn't they do that the GR 86? Those that grew up with the Supra now have deeper pockets and for them, this is a somewhat nostalgic purchase
Ya i have always wanted a supra. But id never get one. My income needs to go up a bit more before i can afford one(i dont like taking loans for cars. Only if you have 50% of it down) And for the price. Id rather get into a new 2022 m240i or a 2018 m2/m3. All of which just destroy the mk5... And i do like the new mk5 but something about it looks odd and i cant get past it.
These B48 engines respond really well to a simple remap, much like the bigger B58. 300bhp+ seems readily achievable on them which would make it pretty rapid car as it'll likely be a little lighter than the 6 cylinder.
The b48 is starting to get some serious aftermarket attention, there are plenty getting around with 350-400 horsepower. Fairly highly strung in that tune though.
Jay is such an outstanding presenter and such a likeable personality. He would have been a great addition to classic Top Gear. Keep up the great work man!
Could see him and that Ped guy doing the new Grand Tour. Need another British guy/girl to add to the team. General reviews would be good, not sure how they would hold up on a special episode
I think this car still has a point when you compare it to the automatic GR86 in the used market. These are way closer to the GR86 in price. This car is almost better in every way compared to that car except for it’s practicality
Jay, I was glad to see you gave the Supra a second look. I owned the 3 litre for 2 years and it was amazing, and I suspect the 2 litre would also deliver. Cheers!
The biggest issue with the 4cyl is the price... nearly 300hp is good enough for anyone... I would always prefer the 6cyl but i certainly dont hate the 4cyl... same as the FType Jag, so many hate the 4cyl just because the V6 and V8 exist... the more options, the better i think... just choose the one for you and let the others choose theirs
I ❤ my 6 cylinder B58 Supra! I would humbly suggest mine has benefited from some running in. It gets smoother and more responsive over time. It’s idrive-me-mad is the most annoying feature.
Here in New Zealand many of our roads, even vast stretches of the national highways, are narrow and windy thanks to our hilly terrain. The 2.0 is plenty fast enough for these conditions, cheaper to insure, and more fuel efficient. The 3.0 seems like more of a dick swinging purchase so you can beat people in drag races to the next red light, or feel a false sense of confidence that it's safe to overtake people in a dangerous manner.
Nothing further than the truth about driving a 3.0. It trounces the 2.0 on the track and on the street. Its power is highly addictive and well appreciated when rocketing past slow-moving vehicles on a long hill.
I own a 2022 GR86 and this is probably a good option for someone who is not comfortable with rattles, road noise, cheap plastics and basically a rather cheap feeling car. The Supra is a lot more premium.
Any old school sports car guy that the 86/BRZ are actually fantastic compared to cheap sports cars of 80/90’s. I owned 240sx and my 22 BRZ has much nicer interior and performance. Sure if you can afford a Supra or anything over $45K is going to be higher quality. Still the twins are fantastic value and I don’t understand why they or 2L Supra aren’t selling like hot cakes
@TrojanRabbit521 I recommend the 86 to friends who want a sports car but aren't mechanically inclined or don't want something that needs work it's a joyful thing to drive hard. I like my 944 I prefer it but it's old and needy.
If you like the looks, and I do, it’s a superb car for the money and 100kg lighter than the 3.0. Without the collaboration with BMW it wouldn’t exist at all. The lack of any issues with the car makes it even more appealing. As the sales volumes are low it will probably be appreciated and seen as more desirable in 10 years time.
@@adrianbennett3761 Toyota has massive resources. It developed the lexus LFA, a car it lost money on, I find it hard to believe they can't develop a straight six engine themselves
@@alexanderstefanov6474 The issue now is that yes they can develop their own engine, but that same engine has to pass emissions everywhere in the world and with Europe tightening their regs more than anybody else they obviously saw it wasn't worth doing. The other thing is Toyota would normally use this engine in multiple different platforms again this would spread the development costs. This is part of the reason why we have the GR Yaris and also the GR Corolla for markets that the yaris isn't sold. Even though the GR Yaris is a loss leader they still thought to use the powerplant in other cars. With a twin turbo straight 6 engine, I don't think toyota have any other platforms that they would use it in as even their big JDM only sedans are either v6 or i4 hybrid and not designed for a straight 6. Same reason why Europe never got the new Nissan Z car, they just couldn't make the engine emissions compliant for the market.
@@vulekv93 Agree entirely but sometimes they’re out of reach. Once you go for a 3.0 should you pay a bit more for an M2 and then a bit more again for an M3 and so on
I have the 3 litre version. Its awesome. It does need modifications though, i put a kit on it, mapped it, sorted the exhaust, mapped the gearbox. I get nearly 50mpg on the motorway if i go 70, and its very fast when i put my foot down. I personally couldn't own the 4 pot, it would always be on my mind that i could have got the more powerful one. But i do get it. If you dont want your car to be so quick your always speeding, lower insurance, cheaper to buy, and you dont mind everyone saying you should have got the straight 6, its a good car.
I own a 22 2.0 Supra. I bought it new because I refused to pay the $5k markup over MSRP on the 3.0. Having put 38,000 trouble free miles on, I can assure you this car has way more speed and ability than 99% of drivers will ever need or could handle on the streets. If it was not my daily driver, which it is, and I wanted a track car I would get the 3.0. For those saying the Mustang V8 is priced about the same so is a “better value”, I would say the Mustang is not a better value if you value a true 2 seat sports car experience. The mustang is a great sporty coupe, but not an authentic sports car. Apples and oranges.
@@realitycheck469 What about the Mustang GT makes it an inauthentic sports car? It’s rwd, offered with a manual, and handles well albeit with numb steering feel.
@@mobious501st It all depends on how one defines "sports car". If you can bring 3 of your friends along this does not fit my particular definition of a "sports car". I know people will have differing opinions. Ford created the "Pony car" category with the Mustang. As you know, the Camaro, Firebird and Challenger are also considered competitors in the "Pony car" category. Ford was trying to make a car that was stylish, sporty, affordable, compact yet practical, with better performance than other cars. It was a great idea and still is. But Ford never even called it a "sports car". And neither do I.
I bet the real stroke of genius with that little car was Ian’s decision to fit it with smaller wheels. It probably suits its dynamics to a tee and probably the only reason Toyota didn’t sell with that setup in the first place is they knew it would lack showroom appeal.
I had one in this spec for 3 years, did a some roadtrips, a lot of narrow b roads... And the car was great with some break mods. Perfect for learning how to drive a sportscar.
I absolutely adore the styling of that supra. I think as standard its one of the best looking sports cars out there. Then with a few tweaks, like suspension and engine / exhaust mods and it just looks incredible. However the people who will appreciate this the most are not the people who can afford it off the forecourt
@@kodacv1612 I'm very much a car guy, but I dont understand why you're talking about 'Fake Ricer Stuff' like modifying a car with basic improvements is 'Ricing' the car which is borderline racist and not even remotely what I'm talking about.
@@slacksmeridian The fact that I have to explain Racing Inspired Cosmetic Enhancement (hence fake air vents n stuff) to a "car guy" on youtube comments says alot
In many countries if you go over 2 liters the taxes multiply literally tenfold, and I’ve had the pleasure to drive a 2 litre z4 bmw and it was hella fun, as I am sure this is too
My driving instructor wanted one of these. He didn't really care for the performance too much he was just in it because he thought it was cool. Apparently it wasn't too much more expensive to lease than the ev corsa he had at the time.
5:00 That is some girl math if I've ever heard. Buy a car that is severely overpriced because you can’t wait for the similarly performant updated gr86 that is ~$14k less than the Supra. Then justify it because you can put down the equity of your current car and extend your finance for another 2 years. All because they offered 0% interest on a car they cannot sell. Huh? That 14k difference really worth 0% interest for two years? I think not.
People forget that the JGTC Castrol Supra has a 4 banger from the Celica rally car swapped into it because it was lighter and could still hit the maximum horsepower number allowed in the class
I bought a 2.0L supra 2 years ago like Ian. Great finance offer by Toyota.Now done 30,000miles with no issues. Fast enough for today’s roads and getting 40mpg. Constantly getting people coming up and asking about the car. Quite a rare sight on the road. Really good review and fully agree with your conclusions. If you can get afford a 3.0L buy one but you will not be short changed with a 2.0L if you do a lot of miles per year.
Personally didn't mind that it was going to be a collab provided it looked like the concept car, but alas it didn't. That concept car looked magnificent!
As the owner of a '22 3.0 Premium, I don't understand the decision to make a 4 cylinder Supra. They should have just put the B48 in a higher trim GR86 imo (pretty sure that would have sold better).
I think the lower power model makes a lot of sense- with roads as congested as they are you can’t fully explore the power anyway. If you’re always living within the first 250 horses the rest are surplus aside for very rare occasions. Maybe you’re the sort of person to drive into the continent once a year-so you want some power on occasion but for the rest of the year the fuel economy and tax savings matter more- plus you get the looks and dynamics of a sports car all year round.
This will be the mk5 equivalent of the mk4 2jz-ge non-turbo. Good looking car and great all around, but it will be greatly overshadowed by the B58 6cyl. Unlike the 2jz-ge, which can simply be boosted and be almost on par with a 2jz-gte, the b48 mk5 is down 2 cylinders. So, b48/B58 mk5 has even a bigger gap than the 2jz-ge and 2jz-gte mk4.
@@dominicrusho hopefully Toyota had lots of input on the quality control and parts suppliers, as well as the engine, cos if it was left to the modern incarnation of BMW, I'd give it wide berth. I know magna Steyr are capable of amazing build quality (G wagon) but let's not forget they also built Euro spec Chryslers which were abysmal
I'm actually a bit miffed about that parking sensor thing. My old cars, I never needed them. Then I got a '00 Merc C estate. Boy, did I ever appreciate them being on there! Couldn't see a ruddy thing while parking. Then I had a drive in a Golf IV estate and realised we had lost something. Why do we accept cars that are safer when you get hit, but are more likely to get hit in? Modern cars, cyclist and pedestrians are completely hidden behind the A-pillars. 3/4 back, you can't see a thing because of some stylish notch in the reardoor window. Idiots. It's all about occupant safety, not about people-outside-the-car safety. I don't need rollcage safety if I don't roll it in the first place. And you know what? I never did, nor do I plan to. Safety is not just about me surviving a crash but also about not killing that dear old mum crossing the street. Sorry for the rant. I want slimmer A and C-pillars!
It's a shocker to say I didn't even know this version existed. I always thought they came with the B58 standard. Neat video! Edit: Although the decent performance and great gas mileage, I don't think I'd ever own the 2.0L model, especially considering the "marginal" price difference. It makes me feel like you're paying such a premium for the body. Regardless, still a great car!
4-pot Supra's have always been a bit of a secret weapon. They handle better than the 6's, due to the engine being wholly behind the front axle, and are easily modded to give Much Power!. There's a reason Toyota used the 4-banger as the basis for their Racing Supras...
@@f.kieranfinney457 Not really. The R33 GT-R they were racing had a 2.7 Straight-6. The reason TOM's picked the 503E, was because it was lighter than the cast iron boat anchor that was the 2JZ.
@@f.kieranfinney457 BTW, while we're on the topic of the 503E. It's not "just" a 4-banger 😉 And it's definitely not short of power. It's the engine used in Toyota's 87C and 88C Group C racers, and the Eagle HF89, and Eagle Mk III IMSA GTP racers, where it produced about 800hp. 2JZ is a fine dragster engine, or a cruiser. But if you race for Toyota, the 503E (sometimes called the 3S-GTM) is the go to answer 👌
Only thing I care about the Supra is that it was designed with bmw, broke my heart, people buy Toyotas because they like Japanese cars, not because they like German cars
People forget the MA70 Supra came out with 2L twinturbo (1GGTE), 2.5L twinturbo (1JZ) and 3L Turbo (7M) so it's definitely in their 'roots' to have a 2L based on heritage alone.
It really is, just that it should be called a 2000GT imo, even the promo material shows both cars together, a big lumbering cruiser tgat's worthy of the Supra name it isn't
Tell me, young James, why any car needs 'hill hold', any time? An auto essentially has it, er, automatically, while a manual has it via the clutch, control thereof. I appreciate that many numpties have not the wit to know how cars work, and some seem borderline terrified of 'clutch control'. But, derr, clutch control; it is what it says. Put car in first with foot on footbrake, find the bite, move foot to throttle. Bingo. While an auto box has Park, and even without the inherent lock within Park, i.e., Drive, there should easily be enough 'hold' to enable brake pedal to throttle movement before any backward movement. Except on the steepest hill start, hill hold is an affront to anyone who can actually drive (well, or well enough). Nuff said.
@@AntoniusTyas I know, the one with a modified 3S-GTE if I remember correctly, but that doesn't matter when you're buying the car. It's just a bit of cool trivia. That 4 cylinder may have produced insane power, but I can't imagine it lasted more than a few races, unlike the 2JZ-GTE, which was bulletproof. But if we talk about today, the production B48 is just weaker than the B58, and it's not interesting in any way. The Supra (that you can buy) isn't and never was meant to be a track weapon, it's basically a grand tourer, so having a heavier and "less efficient" i6 isn't a bad thing. It's smoother and makes more torque, which is what fits the Supra.
The only problem is they call it Supra. It makes expectations to which this machine wasn't engineered at all. See it as GT turbo version of Toyota GR86 technically outsourced from BMW. And That's it. If Toyota intentioned bringing back Supra what they should have done is to take Lexus LC500 V8, throw all unnecessary comfort, isolation and gadgets away, simplify chassis into electronics-free classic construction, replace automatic gearbox with proper stick shift and modernise original Supra design over it..... it would go over 300kph and People would run on dealerships for getting one! If you add big turbo to GR86 and upgrade everything accordingly what you end up with is clone of this (?Supra?) which some superficial marketers incorrectly decided to be sold as Supra.... They should have been calling it Celica, price it as Celica and eeeeverything would be just fine....
Tbh this is gonna be one hell of a used sports car to buy in the next couple of years tho. It’s basically a gr86 with a turbo strapped to it, the only downside is it isn’t sold with a manual transmission. If you can look over that the car is not slow whatsoever, still 0-60 is around 4.7 seconds that’s quick and it can be tuned with that b48 engine. Don’t sleep on the baby Supra yall it’s a diamond in the rough fr
Ya know...i get it. If you do plow through the miles, the 2.0 makes sense. If the chassis is sorted and it drives great then why not? If it was only your weekend bomber then yeah the 3.0 makes sense. The way insurance is and fuel costs are it can get very expensive. I admit only 250~ from the smaller engine is a little sad. 280-300 should have been the aim.
@@JayEmmOnCars Ah fair enough. I guess at that point what is the 3.0 competing against in the market? M240/M440? Can't imagine it would be a full fat M4. Itd need the power to be up there with the M cars at that point which obviously would make 290-300PS 2.0 more viable.
I mean it is still as fast as a stock 1998 Toyota Supra Turbo and insurance in EU / UK being based on engine displacement can mean a big difference in cost. It still looks great.
I used to easily get 40mpg on my b58 (tuned) on a cruise. The economy isn't really an argument between them at all. My average over 10k was 30 and that was with PLENTY of fun flat foot stuff.
What era are you thinking of? Pre-WW2?? All through the '60s, '70s, 80s, 90s and 00's, sharing of entire platforms, engines, transmissions, suspension, all the way down to minor component sharing has been normal and mainstream. Go and look more closely at the history of the motor industry. Especially for low-volume sports cars.
@@rafallo1333 triggered off my opinion I see. Glad to know 2 sentences did that for you. People like you on social media are a joke. You would think you could have asked me to explain further but you rather be brash and insulting than have a conversation. 🥱🤧🥱
I liked it since Day 1. I don't care if it's BMW part , it's still Toyota Calibration and tuning , both the 3.0 and 2.0. The 2.0 can be viewed as a Nice upgrade over a GR86 , same idea - Small ,Light, nimble RWD sports car but with Turbo on both version. What's not to like? and the 3.0 is so Tuneable - that B58 is a Gem , we need to thank Toyota it even exists in a world going towards EV Crossovers , The Mk IV will always be a legend , but the V is Brilliant , love it!
The considerable majority of new-car buyers, even new sports-car buyers, disagree with you - buyers have spoken, and two-pedal cars is what they want now
@@harryspeakup8452 Why should I care what other people think? My Jaguar XJ8 VDP has two pedals, the right solution for that car, a sporting car should have three pedals. Like my Jaguar F-Type.
@Roadrunner_1000 Do you speak for the others? Or just yourself? I speak for myself, but perhaps you, as representative of the others, wishes to ban my speech.
JP Performance showed in his videos what you can tune out of the 4 Zylinder and the 6. It’s a beautiful car and usually I don’t like yellow cars, but with the black details it is a beauty 💯🙏🏼
@@cj09beira Toyota helped develop the engine, so that is half Toyota. 2JZ is a great engine of course, but it's 25 year old technology, and times move on, you still stuck in the 90's fella.
Drove both 6 cyl and 4 cyl when they were prototypes when I worked with BMWs prototypes. Don’t knock the the 4cyl it’s actually way better in the canyons with lots of twists and turns
You must not have a good grasp on what engineering is then. Calibration is a huge part of the discipline of engineering and is not nearly as trivial as you are making it out to be.
HaHa! without getting into a flex match about engineering and calibration, both of which I have 30 years direct paid experience in. Let me just ask: When you add coil-over's, boost maps, larger inter-coolers, different wheels and tires and roll-bars... does it cease to be a Toyota product? Doing this removes the parts that Toyota claims to have "calibrated", so technically all you have left is BMW hardware with either "BMW" or the roundel imprinted on every single part on the car. My point is this: you can "calibrate" all you want, but after just a few miles the rubber and shocks are wore out and those factory calibrations are void if not completely replaced with aftermarket hop-up's. Do you really want to spend good money on a BMW or a Toyota? I'm not saying one is better than the other, I've owned both (as well as much worse), but the used market makes a big distinction between prices each brings and I can assure you that the price for MKV Supras will follow the BMW trajectory and not the Toyota Supra MKIV trajectory. You want to hop up a BMW, buy a BMW and save the $$
@@capn_shawn What on earth are you talking about? You're getting all wrapped up in some unrelated philosophical argument. In any case, "BMW" doesn't make a vehicle that competes directly with the Supra. There's a reason why there is no Z4 coupe. This offering from Toyota is effectively that.
I for one love small engines and 4 cylinders I'm a big fan of 4 and 12 cylinders Everything in between, beyond and below is alright too, just love those 2
I'd just like to chime in and say that this makes a lot of sense in the markets where emission regulations are still based on fixed displacement sizes, and where you end up x10 your insurance payments just because you have a 3.0L engine.
Think this looks much better than the concept and I have been a bit obsessed over these since they came out, and if people can get 500 - 600 and 700+ hp out of the 6 pot, they can probably get some good power out of this too if need be, but I'd be happy with 255 hp I think! It looked from the first test drives even like it was a car with very nice manners. What I find funny is that it looks very big but in reality apparently its not, I have not gotten to see one in real life sadly... I like a bit of sidewall as well, this car looks very good!
The FT-1 concept looked nice but the Supra is just bulky, out of shape and unoriginal. And since the E39 era, BMWs became another level of cheap and unsightly on the inside. The tyre size is great though, having more sidewall makes for a much better ride, more controllability and the average person much quicker on the road. Small sidewalls are only faster on racetracks, and not even that consistently since weight and suspension plays a big part.
mate it still looks cool. as a car guy im happy behind a wheel with the pedal mashed down no matter how fast the car is. i have owned shit boxes and 1100hp trackhawks
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@JayEmmOnCars did you try the straigh 6 manual ?
That performance and 40 mpg is unbelievable.
reallity is, that those engine are about as econimical as the i6 version.
Exactly. My 430i was getting 40 mpg and making way more than the advertised 240 hp lol.
@@watsonanthony8438 my beater car is a stock 289hp 2.0 n/a dohc 4 cyl... Hyundai
My 6L corvette can get 40mpg driving behind a prius at 55mph but why would I do such a thing in a corvette?
@@Motorsportsgeek
the point is, if you drive the b58b30 about the same way as the b46b20 they are about as econimical. the diffference is, that one engine has a least 100bhp more and at least in the current generation a lot faster.
It baffles me that some people in the comments seem to be offended that a car like this exists with a lesser, more affordable engine option. Suggesting that if people can't afford the top model, they should just opt for a completely different car altogether. Sounds childish
Crazy, I bet most of them don’t even own the highest spec version of the car they have. Or even own a car 😅
XR3i v RS Turbo 😂 Not everyone wanted or could afford an RS
"It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow". I'm happy it exists.
@@LeDechaineI hate that saying. I have a Saab 2.0t 150hp and a Ford Mondeo 2.0 tcdi 130hp. I don't have fun in any of them. Driving my M4 on the Nürburgring was the most exhilarating and fun I've ever had in my life. I drove 250 and it wasn't even on the main straight and I drove 300kph on the autobahn.
Potent cars are more fun for me because you push yourself not the car. It takes you out of your comfort zone.
2 litre and 3 litre options don't bother me nearly as much as them being BMW 2 litre and 3 litre. It's the same with the GR86 - it's a Subaru, not a Toyota. Same with the Supra - it's a BMW, not a Toyota.
Nobody should ever forget Toyota’s successful JGTC Supras were powered by a turbocharged 4 Cylinder. (Not a 3SGTE, 503E also called the 3SGT but they are not the same engine even remotely, both are great just different).
Yes, but BMW's dont have any good 4 Cylinders, Unless its their bike engines.
@@jyaad who says??? I've found the b48 engine very good, so far... Hopefully that continues to be the case
@@jyaadb48 is a great engine, it just gets outshined by their straight 6’s
@@jyaad b46/b48 good. but i agree the rest suck
@@jyaad E30 M3’s S14?
They had lower-engined versions of the Mk.4 Supra too. I guess some people need it for the lower prices, cheaper insurance, etc.
The mk4 version had basically a camry engine. Bet all of those have 2jz swaps now. They were super cheap back in the day used.
@@jimmynickelz no it didn't, only the castrol a80 had the 3sgte.
There was also a 2 litre JDM version of the MK3 supra, still I6. 1GGTE.. Only really worked with a manual box due to turbo lag / non VVTI.
@jimmynickelz wasn't a camry engine the a80 was all 2jz but turbo/gte and non turbo/ge
@@jimmynickelz Yeah, nah - there were only 2 options in the Mk4, 2JZ-GE naturally aspirated, and 2JZ-GTE, same engine but turbocharged. Don't comment if you have no idea what you are talking about. That being said, the 2JZ-GE was pretty weaksauce - IIRC it only put out something like 170bhp - I had the same engine in a Lexus SC300, and it was a slug to be sure.
Tyre industry insider knowledge: OEM tyres may look and have the same model written in them as ones you buy aftermarket off the shelf, but they are usually an "F" model (factory), that tyre companies do deals with car manufactures, to look ones you buy aftermarket, but are made of a cheaper, harder rubber. So your Pilot Sport 5s that came on the car, as not as good as the Pilot Sport 5s you would replace them with that you buy at the tyre shop. So don't judge a tyre model by the ones that come factory on a car. Same in the motorcycle tyre world. Look for an F printed somewhere on the sidewall. But now tyre manufacturers are now totally hiding the fact that they are a cheaper version of a tyre that looks identical to ones you buy aftermarket. So if you don't know, now you know. Been in the tyre industry for 15 years.
Wow, I never knew that, that's really interesting 🤔
I had pirellis on a car from new once and I thought the car just didn't handle well. When it came time to change the tyres I chose a different make and all of a sudden the car handled much better!
I've avoided pirellis like a plague ever since!!😮
@@Tight--LiNeZ they always last much longer too
Interesting but I would add that there are examples of Premium tyre brands that supply OE tyres and are marked for meeting the Car manufacturer specifications. For example N0 or N1-Porsche, MO-Mercedes, AO -Audi etc. Even Aston Martins marketing department were recently celebrating about Aston getting their first own spec tyres.
Thanks for the insight! I’ve always thought factory tyres lasted longer than off-the-shelf lookalikes.
@@jerrys. Yup, but that's bespoke tyre models for certain high end cars. Not ya normal 225/40R18 for example. Tyre's that make up the major tyre models that make the bulk of a company's range.. e.g. the tyres that come on say a new Subaru Impreza, or Suzuki GSXR600, that are a common size. Those vehicles tyres will be slightly crapper than the exact same model tyre on the shelf at the tyre store. Usually a slightly cheaper compound or some other cost saving measure, even though to the tyre layman, they appear to be the exact same tyre.
Fat tyres are such a great look and a nice change compared to the paper thin tyres these days.
Definitely! Looks great with matte black wheels too. Thats one thing I love about the G80 M3. They have those thick sidewalls with very nice looking matte black wheels and wide fenders, which makes them look quite reminiscent of a GT3 car imo. Much more serious and racey appearance than most other performance cars. Too damn bad about that nose.
@@LoothansaYeah, BMW messed up on the front end (as well as the rectangle flatscreen they stick in the new interiors). It’s not like the front is terrible, it’s just a poor design that doesn’t make much sense (did they not consult with actual people first?)
The side view looks terrible. It looks even more tall and chunky with the chunky tires. I wish Toyota had made the Supra.
and c o m f y
People need to be educated. I've been into cars for 25 years and used to buy all the Car Buyers Guides each year. In all the guides since the 90s, most cars were available with a WIDE range of engine size options, as countries have different regulations and rules, and people have different budgets. Many cars always had a range of small engines, mid size and higher performance larger engine options. Why are people baffled that some cars come with smaller engine options ?
Exactly. I dont understand peoples problem, you can't afford the highest spec so get a different car
Fast and furious made people stupid and ruined car culture.
@@devanman7920 People want to gate keep sports cars and hero cars. Like the debate between real amg and fake amg, Real M and M sport.
Like just because the m340i is a cheaper version of the m3, doesn't make it an awful car.
@@jeffery8168 Ya thats my point but people think if you get the lesser model you should have instead got something else
Forget about that, these people who complain forget that the Supra was originally the top trim of the 4 cylinder Celica.
Need a 5-cylinder option. The exhaust note would be musical bliss .
Not sure if BMW is willing to introduce a new 5 cyl lmao. I doubt they want to take the shine away from their straight 6's. Maybe someone can swap an audi straight 5 into it.
it would be the first ever normal gasoline rwd 5 cylinder car in the world lol
edit: the only two "non normal" ones that exist are a Donkervoort and the newer KTM x-bow
@@matess3655 GM had a normal NA 5 cylinder from 2003 to 2011 in the Colorado/Canyon compact trucks. I had one. Sounded like a baby viper.
driven a 4 cyl z4 which is the same care, absolutely stonking drive, beautiful sound. one of the best value, best built cars i've ever driven.
You had me up to “beautiful sound”
@@Ranguvar13 *laughs in VTEC*
I don’t doubt all those things you said, but beautiful sound? Come on… they sound like a vacuum cleaner at best 😉
Would have been an excellent experience with the 6cyl
@@bankruptsee 6cyl makes it more of a GT/touring car...imo 4cyl keeps a "roadster" appeal...even when its HEAVY AF XD couple hundred pounds more than the typical car in that class/past verisons. The b58 is another 300 pounds making it damn near 3800 pounds. Either way im not the biggest fan of the newer/gen z4 though to each their own and im sure its still a fun/great time as a daily under the cali sun.
Until you've owned a Toyota for a while you don't really understand what "reliability" is all about.
The engineering and testing that goes into their cars is astounding.
I could fill my '94 MR2 Turbo up with petrol, check the tyre pressures and fluids and basically drive it around Australia with absolute certainty that it would not break.
Glad you did this follow up test, James and, yes, the GR-86 is indeed a fine car. Thanks for posting!
Same car same year, definately correct. Mine is on the OG gassed channel (Black MR2)
@@odin5188 Mines a black Rev 3 too...gotta a link to yours?
@@GM-fh5jp ruclips.net/video/2WfV7nnXVOA/видео.htmlsi=3lMaEFIn8qv1yTxw
BMW 💩! NOT a Toyota!
@@newblackdog7827the b48 and b58 is one most reliable engines out there. It’s rated top 10. Try again.
4-pot rwd configurations are not a rarity to japanese manufacturers (some even quite successful) see Nissan Silvia, 240sx, Toyota AE86, Mazda Miata, Honda S2000!
it's just odd to see this be on sale alongside the GR86, which is 200kg lighter, only 20 hp weaker and 20k cheaper
@Roadrunner_1000 Then try an Alpine A110 for even more lightness.
@@TheImperfectGuy the supra has a totally different wheelbase and track no? Also probably handles and brakes better. Lighter does not always equal better road holding/confidence in bends
Those are all underpowered "curb weight" sportscars, and we are talking about a market, where Kei cars are a thing. Some people want more than that.
@@staLkerhu in a world dominated by overweight SUVs is such a blessing to still have the ability to choose between different sports cars
I love the Supra, say what you like about the BMW bits and bobs but for me, it's the look of the thing. It's such a wild looking beast, almost has shades of TVR. Love it.
It does look good, but it really is just a BMW in every way. I can't really understand why Toyota felt the need to partner with BMW like this, but it's not necessarily a bad thing, since having a BMW with superior resale value because it wears a sticker on its shirt that says, "Hi, my name is: TOYOTA" sounds like a great investment to me.
@bubbleman2002 It's simple - cost to develope an engine like the B58. If Toyota had to build an i6 engine from scratch, the resulting car would cost at least $80,000. And remember, sales projections were never intended to be high. Toyota learned their lesson, as did Mazda, Dodge, Honda, and Nissan.
Also, Gazoo Racing's suspension tuning made the Supra a much better handling car vs. the BMW Z4.
There is no BMW that is like the Supra. It has been received almost like an exotic car on the street. It really stands out!
BMW 💩! NOT a Supra! 😡
@@newblackdog7827 Actually, a recent Consumer Reports magazine's overall ranking of auto manufacturers selling vehicles in the US had BMW in first place, based upon:
Performance
Quality
Reliability
Ride comfort
Safety
Efficiency
Toyota/Lexus is still ranked #1 for reliability and quality.
@@davepaturno4290 Did Toyota ever consider they already have a perfectly good V6 platform that's very receptive to forced induction? "b-b-but it's not a supra without a straight six", but it literally isn't a supra BECAUSE it has a straight six, Toyota doesn't make those anymore, you said it yourself. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
wasn't the whole "Supra" namesake itself because of the then named Celica coupe getting an I6 upgrade over the I4? I'd put Celica badges on this for laughs.
Yes, the first and second generation was called the Celica Supra; same car as the Celica but with a 6 instead of a 4.
EXACTLY!
The Celica badge is badass. Miss all the old Toyota model specific badges
Not quite the same as just putting an i6 in a Celica. It wouldn't be accurate to call this 2.0 "Supra" anything but it's name plate - all Celicas came as 2+2 or 5 seaters. That said, the first 2 gens of Celica Supras had unique longer hoods, fenders, radiator core support, and front clips to accommodate the longer engine also, so this thing would have to be shortened to fit the 2.0 in order to be a "Celica."
I hate BMW's even though I own one (e46), and I would never own this gen Supra. Very glad to have rescued an 83 Celica Supra from a sandy rat-filled tomb - rather put 40k into it over the next decade than finance anything new.
@@t3hgir
Should the TOM's Supra be the TOM's Celica then? 😉
It’s not exactly slow and more affordable makes it more appealing to me
Might not be so good long term though, with BMW's poor history with I4 engines - not sure if this "B48" has the same issues as older I4's from BMW - but I've seen too many BMW I4's fail to basic engineering flaws too quickly to trust them. The 3 litre though, does seem to have a decent rep.
Is this the B48 4 cylinder? Because if it is, there are plenty of videos out there showing that engine tuned up to 500hp without too much trouble. And I thought the whole point of a Supra was the tuning culture no? I don't know I don't own one and have no plans on one but if it is that engine it might be a pretty good option.
@@Beer_Dad1975 Yeah fair enough although the B48 has been around since at least 2014 I think so you get 10 years of data if you want. There is this guy: ruclips.net/video/jd3dFGIPLxQ/видео.html
He has a bunch of videos of various B48 tunes. He reckons it's good. And there are others that's just a quick search result. I'd be tempted if I could up the power to those sorts of levels for sensible money. Don't even need to go that crazy. 500hp is probably unnecessary. Could do 400 for example and at that point that's pretty good value I would think no? AGain I don't know since I don't own one and won't but it is an intriguing proposition. And if you have a Supra but don't tune it is that a bit of wasted potential?
@@Screaming-Trees Cool, definitely not saying they can't make a reliable I4, just that I'm ignorant of them - which TBF, I've mostly only dealt with older BMW's. Now if they could only make a good V8...
@@Screaming-TreesB48 is a a 4 cylinder. So is the N20. Both are tuneable and reliable besides the N20 charge pipes.
B48 is essentially BMW's 3SGTE. If you go down the history of the 3SGTE, you'll realize that Toyota produced it as a high performance race engine and was heavily defined for the street. Examples are the Le Man 3S, the 3S used to break the record at pikes peak that took a paved road to beat, and JGTC
The issue with the 2.0 is that its not much cheaper, and its far rarer. Over here in the states you can find a 3.0 for cheaper than any 2.0.
I was just looking at prices and yes it’s nuts, the 2.0 is selling for nearly the same price…
Europe is different, tho. The 2.0 is much cheaper than the 3.0.
Because there's GR86 and cheaper, it make no sense to buy 2L one.
Over here the 2L auto was the poseur car. It looks the same but is more suited to commuting or ‘flow’ roads. The ‘girlfriend’ car. They were considerably cheaper but are rare enough that that helps keep used prices up.
I live in a military town and there are quite a few of them because Marines could better afford them with deployment money and then soup them up afterwards. All you see here are BRZs, Supras, Mustang GTs and Camaros. And of course lots of jacked up trucks.
That’s not true at all a 2.0 is like 10k less in America, also Lord Jesus Christ loves you!❤
I don't think anything killed the supra other than the price. The audience for the supra was the kids who grew up with the JDM scene, grew up with Fast and Furious/Need for speed, or grew up with gran turismo etc. The supra came in at 46,000 dollars before dealer markups, and that's the 4cyl. Almost the entire target audience for the car was priced out of the car, so all you had left were people that would just buy a Benz or BMW instead. None of these auto manufacturers realize that the sports car market is best sold to people aged 18-30, and most of these people don't have the income to buy one of these. Many of the people that can afford them now have spouses and are getting Toyota Highlanders instead of the cars they wanted when they were young. They're trying to get money out of people that just don't have it.
They should have just taken the Corolla platform, put a 2 door body on it, welded some stiffening bars and put the old Camry v6 inside of it.
@@davidburke4101 didn't they do that the GR 86? Those that grew up with the Supra now have deeper pockets and for them, this is a somewhat nostalgic purchase
Apart from the body you just made a Toyota Blade Master
Ya i have always wanted a supra. But id never get one. My income needs to go up a bit more before i can afford one(i dont like taking loans for cars. Only if you have 50% of it down) And for the price. Id rather get into a new 2022 m240i or a 2018 m2/m3. All of which just destroy the mk5... And i do like the new mk5 but something about it looks odd and i cant get past it.
These B48 engines respond really well to a simple remap, much like the bigger B58. 300bhp+ seems readily achievable on them which would make it pretty rapid car as it'll likely be a little lighter than the 6 cylinder.
A tuned B48 is very close to a stock (euro) b58 in power and torque but….. my B58 didn’t stay stock for long 🤣
A tuned B48 is very close to a stock (euro) b58 in power and torque but….. my B58 didn’t stay stock for long 🤣
The b48 is starting to get some serious aftermarket attention, there are plenty getting around with 350-400 horsepower. Fairly highly strung in that tune though.
Jay is such an outstanding presenter and such a likeable personality. He would have been a great addition to classic Top Gear. Keep up the great work man!
TPD and jayemm! Should've got jay to review raz's clio!
Low key
Could see him and that Ped guy doing the new Grand Tour. Need another British guy/girl to add to the team.
General reviews would be good, not sure how they would hold up on a special episode
You’re right about Jay being an outstanding presenter but the BBC well and truly neutered the great Rory Reid.
He’s much better away from them.
He's like OG top gear. The early days that built the show. before they embraced the dark side and devolved into a car themed reality drama
I think this car still has a point when you compare it to the automatic GR86 in the used market. These are way closer to the GR86 in price.
This car is almost better in every way compared to that car except for it’s practicality
Wheels are flow formed which alot of companies like to use "flow forged" but they're not really forged they just roll the barrel and call it forged!
True, but theoretically it is still better than basic cast aluminium.
Jay, I was glad to see you gave the Supra a second look. I owned the 3 litre for 2 years and it was amazing, and I suspect the 2 litre would also deliver. Cheers!
The biggest issue with the 4cyl is the price... nearly 300hp is good enough for anyone...
I would always prefer the 6cyl but i certainly dont hate the 4cyl... same as the FType Jag, so many hate the 4cyl just because the V6 and V8 exist... the more options, the better i think... just choose the one for you and let the others choose theirs
255 isn’t ’near’ 300. Anyone can feel an extra 45hp boost.
toyota 's best race cars all have 4 cylinders.
bmw makes throw away cars.
lightness is better than horsepower.
you should know these things.
I ❤ my 6 cylinder B58 Supra! I would humbly suggest mine has benefited from some running in. It gets smoother and more responsive over time. It’s idrive-me-mad is the most annoying feature.
Here in New Zealand many of our roads, even vast stretches of the national highways, are narrow and windy thanks to our hilly terrain. The 2.0 is plenty fast enough for these conditions, cheaper to insure, and more fuel efficient. The 3.0 seems like more of a dick swinging purchase so you can beat people in drag races to the next red light, or feel a false sense of confidence that it's safe to overtake people in a dangerous manner.
Nothing further than the truth about driving a 3.0. It trounces the 2.0 on the track and on the street. Its power is highly addictive and well appreciated when rocketing past slow-moving vehicles on a long hill.
I own a 2022 GR86 and this is probably a good option for someone who is not comfortable with rattles, road noise, cheap plastics and basically a rather cheap feeling car. The Supra is a lot more premium.
That's just budget car things it's built to a price point.
Yes, but also has a premium price tag.
Any old school sports car guy that the 86/BRZ are actually fantastic compared to cheap sports cars of 80/90’s. I owned 240sx and my 22 BRZ has much nicer interior and performance. Sure if you can afford a Supra or anything over $45K is going to be higher quality. Still the twins are fantastic value and I don’t understand why they or 2L Supra aren’t selling like hot cakes
@TrojanRabbit521 I recommend the 86 to friends who want a sports car but aren't mechanically inclined or don't want something that needs work it's a joyful thing to drive hard. I like my 944 I prefer it but it's old and needy.
If you like the looks, and I do, it’s a superb car for the money and 100kg lighter than the 3.0. Without the collaboration with BMW it wouldn’t exist at all. The lack of any issues with the car makes it even more appealing. As the sales volumes are low it will probably be appreciated and seen as more desirable in 10 years time.
Some of that weight saving is down to an absence of equipment.
Passive dampers, manual seats being just two of them.
@@adrianbennett3761 Toyota has massive resources. It developed the lexus LFA, a car it lost money on, I find it hard to believe they can't develop a straight six engine themselves
@@alexanderstefanov6474 The issue now is that yes they can develop their own engine, but that same engine has to pass emissions everywhere in the world and with Europe tightening their regs more than anybody else they obviously saw it wasn't worth doing.
The other thing is Toyota would normally use this engine in multiple different platforms again this would spread the development costs. This is part of the reason why we have the GR Yaris and also the GR Corolla for markets that the yaris isn't sold. Even though the GR Yaris is a loss leader they still thought to use the powerplant in other cars. With a twin turbo straight 6 engine, I don't think toyota have any other platforms that they would use it in as even their big JDM only sedans are either v6 or i4 hybrid and not designed for a straight 6.
Same reason why Europe never got the new Nissan Z car, they just couldn't make the engine emissions compliant for the market.
Yeah, low spec cars are always the ones we lust for lol
@@vulekv93 Agree entirely but sometimes they’re out of reach. Once you go for a 3.0 should you pay a bit more for an M2 and then a bit more again for an M3 and so on
I have the 3 litre version. Its awesome. It does need modifications though, i put a kit on it, mapped it, sorted the exhaust, mapped the gearbox. I get nearly 50mpg on the motorway if i go 70, and its very fast when i put my foot down. I personally couldn't own the 4 pot, it would always be on my mind that i could have got the more powerful one. But i do get it. If you dont want your car to be so quick your always speeding, lower insurance, cheaper to buy, and you dont mind everyone saying you should have got the straight 6, its a good car.
I own a 22 2.0 Supra. I bought it new because I refused to pay the $5k markup over MSRP on the 3.0. Having put 38,000 trouble free miles on, I can assure you this car has way more speed and ability than 99% of drivers will ever need or could handle on the streets. If it was not my daily driver, which it is, and I wanted a track car I would get the 3.0. For those saying the Mustang V8 is priced about the same so is a “better value”, I would say the Mustang is not a better value if you value a true 2 seat sports car experience. The mustang is a great sporty coupe, but not an authentic sports car. Apples and oranges.
@@realitycheck469 What about the Mustang GT makes it an inauthentic sports car? It’s rwd, offered with a manual, and handles well albeit with numb steering feel.
@@mobious501st It all depends on how one defines "sports car". If you can bring 3 of your friends along this does not fit my particular definition of a "sports car". I know people will have differing opinions. Ford created the "Pony car" category with the Mustang. As you know, the Camaro, Firebird and Challenger are also considered competitors in the "Pony car" category. Ford was trying to make a car that was stylish, sporty, affordable, compact yet practical, with better performance than other cars. It was a great idea and still is. But Ford never even called it a "sports car". And neither do I.
@@mobious501st I like rally and I have never heard of a mustang winning rally races.
@@realitycheck469 just to clarify, are you saying it must be 2seater to be a sports car? So a brz is not a sports car but a miata is?
Correct
I bet the real stroke of genius with that little car was Ian’s decision to fit it with smaller wheels. It probably suits its dynamics to a tee and probably the only reason Toyota didn’t sell with that setup in the first place is they knew it would lack showroom appeal.
I had one in this spec for 3 years, did a some roadtrips, a lot of narrow b roads... And the car was great with some break mods. Perfect for learning how to drive a sportscar.
I absolutely adore the styling of that supra. I think as standard its one of the best looking sports cars out there.
Then with a few tweaks, like suspension and engine / exhaust mods and it just looks incredible.
However the people who will appreciate this the most are not the people who can afford it off the forecourt
tbqh, coming with fake ricer stuff fresh out of the factory is a big no no for me
@@kodacv1612 fake ricer stuff? What are you talking about?
@@slacksmeridian
you're not a car guy
aren't you?
@@kodacv1612 I'm very much a car guy, but I dont understand why you're talking about 'Fake Ricer Stuff' like modifying a car with basic improvements is 'Ricing' the car which is borderline racist and not even remotely what I'm talking about.
@@slacksmeridian
The fact that I have to explain
Racing
Inspired
Cosmetic
Enhancement
(hence fake air vents n stuff)
to a "car guy" on youtube comments says alot
In many countries if you go over 2 liters the taxes multiply literally tenfold, and I’ve had the pleasure to drive a 2 litre z4 bmw and it was hella fun, as I am sure this is too
Not real countries
Funny how toyota is having major reliability issues right now after working with BMW
That’s because Toyota is shift to the turbo v4 instead of staying with their original natural V6 or V8. Look at their performance trucks and big SUVs
V4? Please do a little actual research to understand engine platforms before spouting "facts."
Because of high taxes on some countries, like mine, these cars actually make sense.
My driving instructor wanted one of these. He didn't really care for the performance too much he was just in it because he thought it was cool. Apparently it wasn't too much more expensive to lease than the ev corsa he had at the time.
I can believe that!
@@JayEmmOnCars I currntly lease one Z4 G29 2.0 manual in Germany ,I pay 340 Euro a month (2022) ,40 euros more than my prevoius MX5 ND 1.5
5:00 That is some girl math if I've ever heard.
Buy a car that is severely overpriced because you can’t wait for the similarly performant updated gr86 that is ~$14k less than the Supra. Then justify it because you can put down the equity of your current car and extend your finance for another 2 years. All because they offered 0% interest on a car they cannot sell. Huh?
That 14k difference really worth 0% interest for two years? I think not.
Also, road tax in some countries gets pretty crazy . Still got handling and looks
People forget that the JGTC Castrol Supra has a 4 banger from the Celica rally car swapped into it because it was lighter and could still hit the maximum horsepower number allowed in the class
yes, and that was a 2L 4cyl race engine... not an economy car engine
@terrorbird4022 that's a race car not a car for the public
I bought a 2.0L supra 2 years ago like Ian. Great finance offer by Toyota.Now done 30,000miles with no issues. Fast enough for today’s roads and getting 40mpg. Constantly getting people coming up and asking about the car. Quite a rare sight on the road. Really good review and fully agree with your conclusions. If you can get afford a 3.0L buy one but you will not be short changed with a 2.0L if you do a lot of miles per year.
BMW 💩!
That's excellent fuel economy. Must be a fun commuter.
Semi forged or ‘flow forged/formed’ makes wheels lighter and stronger than cast wheels. But it’s a more cost effective process than typical forging
Looks beautiful in that colour. But if the engine choice causes puzzlement, so does that private plate for a gentleman named Ian.
Deep french kiss. Probably runs an escort agency
Not as bad as a 4 cylinder AMG, the jump from V8 to 4 cylinder is much greater than I6 to I4
It’s a lovely motor , 2L is very effective for everyday motoring
41mpg is 5,7L/100km, that's insane for a car with this much power
Good content as usual..
This a good looking BMW..
😂👍
I had one for a while. Actually, it's a great good car, especially on B roads. Perfect to weight and great when pushed hard. Love these 2.0 Supras
We own the 6 cylinder. We like it, but it is far from just being a great car. It's a good sports car, it's not a great car!
Like what petrolheads thinks about z4. This is the point
Atleast it was made that's been most enthiast cars since 2012 meh.
Personally didn't mind that it was going to be a collab provided it looked like the concept car, but alas it didn't. That concept car looked magnificent!
As the owner of a '22 3.0 Premium, I don't understand the decision to make a 4 cylinder Supra. They should have just put the B48 in a higher trim GR86 imo (pretty sure that would have sold better).
The GR86 is also developed by Subaru so that's probably why they didn't put a BMW engine into it
@@mikeypv6 And the engine is a Subaru, so again not Toyota powered.
One of those things takes a lot more engineering than the other.
I think the lower power model makes a lot of sense- with roads as congested as they are you can’t fully explore the power anyway. If you’re always living within the first 250 horses the rest are surplus aside for very rare occasions.
Maybe you’re the sort of person to drive into the continent once a year-so you want some power on occasion but for the rest of the year the fuel economy and tax savings matter more- plus you get the looks and dynamics of a sports car all year round.
I don't think putting an I4 in an 86 would be easy
This will be the mk5 equivalent of the mk4 2jz-ge non-turbo. Good looking car and great all around, but it will be greatly overshadowed by the B58 6cyl. Unlike the 2jz-ge, which can simply be boosted and be almost on par with a 2jz-gte, the b48 mk5 is down 2 cylinders. So, b48/B58 mk5 has even a bigger gap than the 2jz-ge and 2jz-gte mk4.
What happens when people who though they bought a Toyota start getting BMW problems after a few years?
They sit back, relax, and enjoy the 10 year warranty.
@@dominicrusho hopefully Toyota had lots of input on the quality control and parts suppliers, as well as the engine, cos if it was left to the modern incarnation of BMW, I'd give it wide berth. I know magna Steyr are capable of amazing build quality (G wagon) but let's not forget they also built Euro spec Chryslers which were abysmal
Here in the us the supra isn’t forgotten. I see one almost everyday and its a guarantee that ill see one on the weekend
I'm actually a bit miffed about that parking sensor thing. My old cars, I never needed them. Then I got a '00 Merc C estate. Boy, did I ever appreciate them being on there! Couldn't see a ruddy thing while parking.
Then I had a drive in a Golf IV estate and realised we had lost something. Why do we accept cars that are safer when you get hit, but are more likely to get hit in? Modern cars, cyclist and pedestrians are completely hidden behind the A-pillars. 3/4 back, you can't see a thing because of some stylish notch in the reardoor window. Idiots. It's all about occupant safety, not about people-outside-the-car safety. I don't need rollcage safety if I don't roll it in the first place. And you know what? I never did, nor do I plan to. Safety is not just about me surviving a crash but also about not killing that dear old mum crossing the street.
Sorry for the rant. I want slimmer A and C-pillars!
Then don't buy a McLaren!😂
It's a shocker to say I didn't even know this version existed. I always thought they came with the B58 standard. Neat video!
Edit: Although the decent performance and great gas mileage, I don't think I'd ever own the 2.0L model, especially considering the "marginal" price difference. It makes me feel like you're paying such a premium for the body. Regardless, still a great car!
4-pot Supra's have always been a bit of a secret weapon. They handle better than the 6's, due to the engine being wholly behind the front axle, and are easily modded to give Much Power!. There's a reason Toyota used the 4-banger as the basis for their Racing Supras...
I mean, the magnificent TOM's Supra in the JGTC was a 4-banger Supra. 👍
I suspect it’s category rules making that engine choice for them.
@@f.kieranfinney457
Not really.
The R33 GT-R they were racing had a 2.7 Straight-6.
The reason TOM's picked the 503E, was because it was lighter than the cast iron boat anchor that was the 2JZ.
@@f.kieranfinney457
BTW, while we're on the topic of the 503E.
It's not "just" a 4-banger 😉
And it's definitely not short of power.
It's the engine used in Toyota's 87C and 88C Group C racers, and the Eagle HF89, and Eagle Mk III IMSA GTP racers, where it produced about 800hp.
2JZ is a fine dragster engine, or a cruiser.
But if you race for Toyota, the 503E (sometimes called the 3S-GTM) is the go to answer 👌
Only thing I care about the Supra is that it was designed with bmw, broke my heart, people buy Toyotas because they like Japanese cars, not because they like German cars
I wanted a Supra, couldn't afford the proper 6 cylinder so didn't see the point. Got a GR86 instead.
People forget the MA70 Supra came out with 2L twinturbo (1GGTE), 2.5L twinturbo (1JZ) and 3L Turbo (7M) so it's definitely in their 'roots' to have a 2L based on heritage alone.
2L, yes. Mainly for Japanese tax reasons. But the Supra was never a four cylinder before this. That was the Celica's territory.
People get (extremely) bent out of shape that toyota called it a supra and thats a shame, it's genuinely a good car on its own merit.
It’s garbage
@Philippinesbound42 how so rwd 2 seater sports coupe when it's an ev or 3 cylinder hybrid you will want this back
@@Philippinesbound42Let me guess, you've never driven it and couldn't afford it anyway?
It really is, just that it should be called a 2000GT imo, even the promo material shows both cars together, a big lumbering cruiser tgat's worthy of the Supra name it isn't
NOT a Toyota & NOT a Supra! BMW 💩with a Toyota badge on! 😡
Tell me, young James, why any car needs 'hill hold', any time? An auto essentially has it, er, automatically, while a manual has it via the clutch, control thereof. I appreciate that many numpties have not the wit to know how cars work, and some seem borderline terrified of 'clutch control'. But, derr, clutch control; it is what it says. Put car in first with foot on footbrake, find the bite, move foot to throttle. Bingo. While an auto box has Park, and even without the inherent lock within Park, i.e., Drive, there should easily be enough 'hold' to enable brake pedal to throttle movement before any backward movement. Except on the steepest hill start, hill hold is an affront to anyone who can actually drive (well, or well enough). Nuff said.
The point of the Supra is that it has an i6. If you want a 4 cylinder, buy the GR86, it's cheaper, sportier, and actually Japanese.
It was a 4cyl Supra that actually brought motorsport credentials to Supra, though.
@@AntoniusTyas I know, the one with a modified 3S-GTE if I remember correctly, but that doesn't matter when you're buying the car. It's just a bit of cool trivia. That 4 cylinder may have produced insane power, but I can't imagine it lasted more than a few races, unlike the 2JZ-GTE, which was bulletproof. But if we talk about today, the production B48 is just weaker than the B58, and it's not interesting in any way. The Supra (that you can buy) isn't and never was meant to be a track weapon, it's basically a grand tourer, so having a heavier and "less efficient" i6 isn't a bad thing. It's smoother and makes more torque, which is what fits the Supra.
It’s the equivalent of buying a new poverty spec boxster completely pointless
Bro my mind is blown
@@AntoniusTyasand BMW race cars are mostly V8s but everyone knows an inline 6 is the iconic BMW engine
The only problem is they call it Supra. It makes expectations to which this machine wasn't engineered at all. See it as GT turbo version of Toyota GR86 technically outsourced from BMW. And That's it.
If Toyota intentioned bringing back Supra what they should have done is to take Lexus LC500 V8, throw all unnecessary comfort, isolation and gadgets away, simplify chassis into electronics-free classic construction, replace automatic gearbox with proper stick shift and modernise original Supra design over it..... it would go over 300kph and People would run on dealerships for getting one!
If you add big turbo to GR86 and upgrade everything accordingly what you end up with is clone of this (?Supra?) which some superficial marketers incorrectly decided to be sold as Supra.... They should have been calling it Celica, price it as Celica and eeeeverything would be just fine....
You could say that this version should be named "Celica Supra".
...or simply Celica which it actually is...
@@WhiteMouse77 its not tho
@@burningknuckle26 Celica Supra was the 6 cylinder version of the Celica. The 4 cylinder Celica was just called Celica.
Should the TOM's Supra also be called "Celica Supra" then?
Considering that was also a 4-cylinder 😉
Tbh this is gonna be one hell of a used sports car to buy in the next couple of years tho. It’s basically a gr86 with a turbo strapped to it, the only downside is it isn’t sold with a manual transmission. If you can look over that the car is not slow whatsoever, still 0-60 is around 4.7 seconds that’s quick and it can be tuned with that b48 engine. Don’t sleep on the baby Supra yall it’s a diamond in the rough fr
Ya know...i get it. If you do plow through the miles, the 2.0 makes sense. If the chassis is sorted and it drives great then why not? If it was only your weekend bomber then yeah the 3.0 makes sense. The way insurance is and fuel costs are it can get very expensive.
I admit only 250~ from the smaller engine is a little sad. 280-300 should have been the aim.
Would have been too close on paper to the 3.0 with 300 horses
@@JayEmmOnCars Ah fair enough. I guess at that point what is the 3.0 competing against in the market? M240/M440? Can't imagine it would be a full fat M4. Itd need the power to be up there with the M cars at that point which obviously would make 290-300PS 2.0 more viable.
I mean it is still as fast as a stock 1998 Toyota Supra Turbo and insurance in EU / UK being based on engine displacement can mean a big difference in cost. It still looks great.
least it looks nice
Debatable. I'd take the Z4 any day of the week.
Oh James you make me laugh - that dedicated piece about the plaque the owner put in really made me smile 😊
Still a head-scratcher for me that with Toyota's technical might they rebodied a BMW.
Nice one James! Best review of yours I've seen in quite a while!
A car that looks that good deserves more than a 4 cylinder, sorry just my opinion!!
Just my opinion, its pig ugly!!
Not just yours.
I used to easily get 40mpg on my b58 (tuned) on a cruise. The economy isn't really an argument between them at all. My average over 10k was 30 and that was with PLENTY of fun flat foot stuff.
It does definitely remind me of the E86.
Thanks James for this it was a red Triumph TR6 👍👍👍
Honestly companies don’t make cars like how they use to. Where cars are made and exclusively for their brand.
What era are you thinking of? Pre-WW2?? All through the '60s, '70s, 80s, 90s and 00's, sharing of entire platforms, engines, transmissions, suspension, all the way down to minor component sharing has been normal and mainstream. Go and look more closely at the history of the motor industry. Especially for low-volume sports cars.
@@harryspeakup8452 you are completely missing the point but it’s ok
@@C4S911actually he's right and it's you who's missing the point living in some fantasy nostalgia world. Get back to reality.
@@rafallo1333 triggered off my opinion I see. Glad to know 2 sentences did that for you. People like you on social media are a joke. You would think you could have asked me to explain further but you rather be brash and insulting than have a conversation. 🥱🤧🥱
The 2 litre F type and the S3 (rather than the RS3) are more than powerful enough on our roads.
Sorry but the 2.0 Soup is an abomination that shouldn’t exist 😢
toyota is discontinuing the supra cuz of poor sales but like..force ur dealers to not charge 10k+ markups and they probably would've sold a lot better
The B58 will also return over 40mpg easily on a motorway run and is miles quicker and sounds better. The 2.0 is just pointless.
I agree.
I liked it since Day 1.
I don't care if it's BMW part , it's still Toyota Calibration and tuning , both the 3.0 and 2.0.
The 2.0 can be viewed as a Nice upgrade over a GR86 , same idea - Small ,Light, nimble RWD sports car but with Turbo on both version.
What's not to like? and the 3.0 is so Tuneable - that B58 is a Gem , we need to thank Toyota it even exists in a world going towards EV Crossovers , The Mk IV will always be a legend , but the V is Brilliant , love it!
3:26 I prefer the final look a lot more, the concept looked like a wannabe super car whereas the final version is a beautiful sports car
Massive A-pillar and huge TV. No thanks. And an automatic?! Jesus wept.
The considerable majority of new-car buyers, even new sports-car buyers, disagree with you - buyers have spoken, and two-pedal cars is what they want now
@@harryspeakup8452 Why should I care what other people think? My Jaguar XJ8 VDP has two pedals, the right solution for that car, a sporting car should have three pedals. Like my Jaguar F-Type.
@Roadrunner_1000 Do you speak for the others? Or just yourself? I speak for myself, but perhaps you, as representative of the others, wishes to ban my speech.
JP Performance showed in his videos what you can tune out of the 4 Zylinder and the 6. It’s a beautiful car and usually I don’t like yellow cars, but with the black details it is a beauty 💯🙏🏼
Sorry it's not a Toyota Supra. It's still a BMW with a Toyota badge . If it's was a 2JZ then it's worthy to hold the Supra badge.
Badge snob.
What is wrong with a BMW ?
@@DjNikGnashers nothing, it just isn't a supra.
@@cj09beira Toyota helped develop the engine, so that is half Toyota.
2JZ is a great engine of course, but it's 25 year old technology, and times move on, you still stuck in the 90's fella.
Drove both 6 cyl and 4 cyl when they were prototypes when I worked with BMWs prototypes. Don’t knock the the 4cyl it’s actually way better in the canyons with lots of twists and turns
As pointless as a 4-cylinder Mustang.
This vid just appeared to me on "you may like"...
I sure did. You convinced me to buy a Supra today lol (at least in Gt7...)
“Calibration” is not Engineering.
It’s a BMW… don’t care who set the spring rates
You must not have a good grasp on what engineering is then. Calibration is a huge part of the discipline of engineering and is not nearly as trivial as you are making it out to be.
It is, because one MUST have to take in consideration chassis dinamics.
HaHa! without getting into a flex match about engineering and calibration, both of which I have 30 years direct paid experience in. Let me just ask:
When you add coil-over's, boost maps, larger inter-coolers, different wheels and tires and roll-bars... does it cease to be a Toyota product?
Doing this removes the parts that Toyota claims to have "calibrated", so technically all you have left is BMW hardware with either "BMW" or the roundel imprinted on every single part on the car.
My point is this: you can "calibrate" all you want, but after just a few miles the rubber and shocks are wore out and those factory calibrations are void if not completely replaced with aftermarket hop-up's. Do you really want to spend good money on a BMW or a Toyota? I'm not saying one is better than the other, I've owned both (as well as much worse), but the used market makes a big distinction between prices each brings and I can assure you that the price for MKV Supras will follow the BMW trajectory and not the Toyota Supra MKIV trajectory.
You want to hop up a BMW, buy a BMW and save the $$
@@capn_shawn What on earth are you talking about? You're getting all wrapped up in some unrelated philosophical argument.
In any case, "BMW" doesn't make a vehicle that competes directly with the Supra. There's a reason why there is no Z4 coupe. This offering from Toyota is effectively that.
@@SheerHippo a BMW by any other name…
I for one love small engines and 4 cylinders
I'm a big fan of 4 and 12 cylinders
Everything in between, beyond and below is alright too, just love those 2
I'd just like to chime in and say that this makes a lot of sense in the markets where emission regulations are still based on fixed displacement sizes, and where you end up x10 your insurance payments just because you have a 3.0L engine.
Toyota doesn't know what will sell until they try it. Some new models take off unexpectedly and some get quietly withdrawn.
Think this looks much better than the concept and I have been a bit obsessed over these since they came out, and if people can get 500 - 600 and 700+ hp out of the 6 pot, they can probably get some good power out of this too if need be, but I'd be happy with 255 hp I think!
It looked from the first test drives even like it was a car with very nice manners.
What I find funny is that it looks very big but in reality apparently its not, I have not gotten to see one in real life sadly...
I like a bit of sidewall as well, this car looks very good!
in the same way that non-turbo old Supras or V6 Mustangs deserve to exist, this car deserves to exist.
It should be available as manual and it would be really cool car.
The FT-1 concept looked nice but the Supra is just bulky, out of shape and unoriginal. And since the E39 era, BMWs became another level of cheap and unsightly on the inside.
The tyre size is great though, having more sidewall makes for a much better ride, more controllability and the average person much quicker on the road. Small sidewalls are only faster on racetracks, and not even that consistently since weight and suspension plays a big part.
mate it still looks cool. as a car guy im happy behind a wheel with the pedal mashed down no matter how fast the car is. i have owned shit boxes and 1100hp trackhawks
I love the B48 Supra. It feels light and nimble, easy to drive, and just all around a fun car.