@@TheAsmodianleader Some high end players are actually complaining about it, Yoda just made a video where he rants about the changes, while casuals are very happy about it
You can understand that description in so many ways. "Rains down orbs" - Puddles to soak, everybody inside the puddle, friend or foe, gets the buff. "Disrupt these orbs" - You have to kick or stun them, and then you get a buff. Or you have something like with the third boss in Academy, where you have to run into the orbs, so the boss isn't getting them. The wording is really unclear at the moment.
I like it. Perma tyr/fort+xal 20% is still the same static amount of damage, essentially no affixes, and tuning around that should be easier for them and only make some mechanics slightly easier each week in low keys. Meanwhile in some low keys you sometimes get some extra value from learning what your spec is good at, like holding onto some stuff for 20% more damage in execute. This is good. I hope the seasonal xal'ateth affixes we HAVENT seen are gonna be awful casual m+ers.
This is the best change to M+ in a long while, and plays so well with the other really good change with bringing back old dungeons every season. When the biggest issue is that the new affixes (especially the ball soaks) seems so fun that it's a shame it won't be there in mid-high+ is the biggest gripe, they really nailed it.
This is really good since I was actually using these affixes as a canary of sorts. That they are doing something about the terrible affixes and doing it before it goes live (!!!!) sort of shows that they are, in fact, listening (this time, and so far).
Positive changes.. difficulty spike looks rough with tyran + fort + guile but I’m more worried about how much time that will add to +12 and higher keys.. I don’t want hour long keys
Well, for +12 and higher these changes don't matter. You aren't doing those keys for crests or equipment, you only do those for points anyway. Also this "spike" is a lot more player friendly, compared to the other affixes, considering that you don't have constantely changing difficulties. Every single week will be the same for +12 and higher. And even for lower difficulties, the swing from week to week will be less harsh.
@@Schilani "more player friendly" LMFAO, do you even realize the difficulty lvl step up? From an 11 to a 12? Pushing keys will be a shitshow. Just more focus on casual idiots and no end-game players.
The Xal'atath stuff is giving me Maven vibes from Path of Exile. She likes to empower and summon random nightmares from your past for you to deal with rather than fight you directly and literally makes you play games.
Yes 7s through 12s will rapidly scale but that is also the important range for gear rewards and it should help make clear the level of content those keys are designed for...
I think the previous versions of the TWW affixes could have also worked if they had just made it without the damage type restriction. That said I like the new idea more because it doesn't exclude specific damage types AND brings back season themes. Best part by far is that they can keep the weekly affixes for people that only want to play for chest, so that they can keep the gameplay a bit more fresh with affixes that don't impact the gameplay in a big way but at the same time give for score pushes each week the same/remove affixes more or less completly. That helps in different ways. Blizzard can balance dungeons better because they don't need to balance around tyranic and fortified seperate but can balance it with both active AND finally not the problem of "Oh no I don't have time next week but next week is push week". No time? Bad week? Just play next week. Doesn't make a difference
I like that 12 and above basically has no affixes, since they dont rotate, so itll be the same every week. The main issue I see though, is their mob/boss tuning is either going to have to be perfect, OR theyre going to have to tune mobs in 12 and up separately from 11 and down. In 9 and down, u have either fort or tyrannical. 10-11 you have both. fine. but then at 12 you tack on yet another % multiplier to mobs/bosses bringing it up to 3 multipliers. if their tuning isn't immaculate, my god is that going to be an insane difficulty spike with each key level you go up from 12.
I can imagine the tuning will almost exclusively be targeted at 12 and above because its gonna be a lot more simple to tune now that its just 50% dmg and health base
I think it's the opposite; it's more that Fortified and Tyrannical are always active in a +12, so they just tune the content for the high end to make sense. Then when you drop in key level, Fort or Tyran is just removed, and the key will be much much easier as a result. No additional tuning needed, just zone in and blast with the fun Xal affix and vibe
Having Fort and Tyran always actives makes tuning a lot easier in the first place. Also +12 and higher just means, you are only going for the score anyway. No need to be too precise with tuning at that point, especially since you don't have push weeks anymore anyway. And if a +12 is out of whack, a +10 is as well. So the dungeon will need a tuning pass for lower and higher end players at the same time. Also the spike will only be at 12. Because you go from a +11 basically up to a +14. But you still go up one key level at a time after that. So the difference between +12 and +13 will feel the same as a +14 to +15. It's not 20% per key level.
To me as lower end MPlus user. I say user as I use it for gear and crests. I don't play for it for fun. But for me I don't instantly hate these changes, so that is HUGE.
Increaskng death timer penatly. They really cant help themsleves. The reason there is a timer is to prevent respawn point cheese from expansions of old. Dying is penalty enough.
For me personally, the only reason I do Mythic plus is to help my raid team succeed. I don't think it's a bad system overall, and I'm glad to see some of these changes, but mythic plus for me has been rough.
I do think that’s a more raid gearing issue than m+ issue. I do think they should be looking to fix that for sure. I think heroic week coming back should help somewhat.
Hell yeah. I've always chiefly been a raider, uninterested in pushing M+ beyond the point of rewards. +10s were more annoying than interesting due to complex encounter design plus several affixes on top, before even scaling up to breaking points. This seems WAY more player-friendly, especially if I can get Fort/Tyran score simultaneously. It's also more dev-friendly since they can't help but make complicated trash, and they don't have to worry about how active affixes scale into high keys.
They should make the dungeons a lot quicker (smaller). It's a bit frustating to go flawless for 30mins and fk up last pull and gg you lost 30mins. Should be like challenger mode / maw of souls. Less rewards - faster dungeons
so up to level 12, you have potential buffs if you play well. will be nice for keys. but at 12+ you lose the buffs, gain tyrannical and fortified, and also the mobs have 20% more health??? that's a large spike in difficulty there. I don't like that at all.
I really hate when I hear "these affixes were not really a problem at lower keys" You know what every tank that want to do his weekly vault says when he sees sanguine? Oh boy, it is sanguine week. LETS GOOO!
New changes are interesting. Still not sure why they are keeping fort/tyran--just re-adjust tuning for trash and bosses as the keys go up to be more static. No one likes long ass boss fights during tyran weeks.
With both of them always active at +10 and higher, dungeons are a lot easier to tune. You don't have these heavy swings of 2 minute to 5 minute boss fights from week to week. So I would expect them to always be tuned around 3 or so minutes instead.
Great changes!! The only thing is missing is the removal of the depletion mechanic. Can anyone explain how is that beneficial to the gameplay and community?
@@nomnomNACHO whats the deal with the timer then, if you can retry as many times as u want? i mean, i understand your opinion but it would kill my motivation, since its not a take all or nothing situation
@@ssmbl ??? The timer is good. The depletion mechanic is not. It limits who you would play with and everyone is scared of getting griefed. Would you take your noob friend to a +15 with your own key? Knowing that you need that +15 for your push group? Not meeting the timer already feels bad, especially when you get a dc or a random idiot pug who leaves mid key bricking your key. On top of that shit show you now also have a lower ranked key. The punishment is already there, you wasted your time. And if you beat the timer you get an upgrade. So you can push push see how far it can go and manually de-rank the key if you wish.
Biggest issue with these changes is the challenger affix. It's going to have potentially horrendous effects on pugging. One wipe could most likely lead to an instant leave.
I mean that happens pretty often already. Or you get ridiculous keys like DOTI: Lower where you can have 40 deaths and still comfortably time on relatively high key levels
I mean it's only 15 secs, if you are at the point where 50 sec is the diff for your group i'd say it's kinda deserved to have it this way ? I dunno doesn't seem that bad to me
good direction, i do think guile should work differently for bosses than trash or should be worded that it adds % increased hp and dmg value for trash mobs and % increased hp and dmg for bosses instead of a flat increase across the board.
I’m concerned about what a +12 will do to pugging - I’m a healer in the 14-15 key range right now and it feels like a +12 will become a 14/15. Maybe it’ll be fine but pugging can already be very punishing with deaths and also a toxic environment. I can see more toxicity being thrown at healers for people dying and timers being depleted. Also, seems odd to do fort AND tyran together since they almost cancel each other out. In fact, there’s actually no affix +12 for all intents and purposes - just an increased death penalty and dungeon scaling changes due to the ‘affixes’.
My question would be: What are you pugging +12s and higher for? That's only for points anyway. And as you are saying, at +12 and higher dungeons will always be the same. You are just playing the dungeon. You aren't going to have people accidentally ignore a mob in sanguine. Or not dispelling some afflicted ghost. It will make pugging more consistent as well. That the pugging community is needlessly toxic is a different issue, and no changes to the game will do anything about that.
Having both is actually good, because it's far easier to tune them. You don't have the heavy swings from week to week anymore. A +10 this week will feel pretty much the same as a +10 the next week. The difference between Fort and Tyran always was, that one week felt okay, while the other week felt shit. If both weeks feel the same, it's just like the affixes don't exist in the first place.
Overall it's likely to be an improvement... but challengers peril is just /facepalm. People rage at each other enough in pugs and this will make it worse. That's before we get to making it easier for trolls to brick keys on purpose.
Trolls will brick your keys no matter what. That's easy enough and shouldn't be something for Blizzard to take into consideration. If they were thinking about "But what if that player WANTS to sabotage the group?" then the whole thing would go nowhere. And challengers peril is basically just something, that makes it so you aren't timing keys with 20+ deaths anymore. Which, to be frank, is ridiculous in the first place. But without the affixes that often where responsible for deaths, it's a different thing anyway. Now you aren't getting dragons with 5+ bolstering stacks anymore, so the next AoE will guaranteed wipe the group and cost you 25 second, plus the time to get back, plus the time it took to get it down to 30% health. Now that dragon will be basically the same every single week for keys in which it matters. But if you fuck up, it's more punshing. The fact that the pugging community in WoW is needlessly toxic is a whole other deal.
New system sounds sick and all, im just confused how this was the second iteration? This is remarkably more fleshed out than the previous changes, idk how this was the pivot from a system that got negative feedback (the same feedback that has been given for years) instead of the initial plan. The idea that they came up with this on the fly is both very impressive and somewhat concerning. Only problem i have is potential falloff in season length, with how fast we gear now and each week being exactly the same with affixes we might end up maxing out keystones pretty early and having a kinda boring last half of the season
good changes, i love them. +12 in the other hand loocking crazy. i think the gap between +11 and +12 is too much. Testing will show how this will play out.
The question always would be: Do you want it to work? Because soothing enemies also means, that they live longer. I would guess it's only really interesting for the very heavy hitters, which can't be stunned.
For +10 and +11 tyran and fort basically are non-existent. And from +12 onwards affixes as a whole are basically non-existent. The only time tyran and fort actually make a difference is +4 to +9. And at that range they are very manageable already, especially now without all the stupid other affixes like bolstering or sanguine.
Isn't adding Guile at 12 along w/ Fort AND Tyran both being active gonna be super punishing? Won't this make the dungeon 1-shots problem infinitely worse? What am I missing? This looks wild at 12+. Everything else here is a W. And if someone can tell me why I'm wrong about Guile, I'll definitely be willing to come around.
That's where people start pushing. There's no reward for going above +10s so increasing the challenge above that level and standardising the difficulty makes it easier to tune the numbers later on.
From +12 onwards dungeons basically have no affixes anymore. Sure, the point of one-shotting will be sooner, but let's be honest. If the arbitrary level of impossibility is at +23 or +20 makes virtually no difference.
Now they should make m+ relevant for entire of the season. Number of runs drop as season comes to an end. They should do splits, similar what Riot Games is doing with LoL.
The reason number of runs goes down is because people stop playing towards the end of a season. There's no need to do m+ if you have all BIS gear and have cleared all the content you want to do. It's a player retention problem, not a specific activity relevance problem.
Removing the likes of Afflicted and Incorporeal was already a fantastic start (even if the initial "lesser" affixes had their own problems), but this is even better. Only issue is how they're going to incorporate Fortified and Tyrannical simultaneously without it getting out of hand.
Having both active at all times is kinda a blessing in disguise. Because you don't have the heavy swings from week to week anymore, which makes dungeons far easier to tune, as enemies aren't hitting like wet noodles in one week and just annihilating the tank in the next (sometimes due to the combination with other harsh affixes)
@@Schilani With the usual difficulty ramp of higher key levels, having both at once at that level is going to be a massive difficulty spike. I wonder if the individual boosts of Fortified and Tyrannical will be toned down for this reason.
in terms of having terrible affixes and dead weeks plus getting rid of bolstering, raging and sanguine, these changes are incredible!! However is no one else concerned about the combination of fort, tyrannical, and then another 20% damage and health on top of that from Xal’atath’s Guile?
Why would you? Having Fort and Tyran active makes tuning dungeons a lot more consistent. You don't have the heavy swings of one week the boss dies in 2 minutes, and the next it dies in 5. And 20% from Guile is just +2 key levels at a point, at which you only care about points anyway. You aren't doing +12s or higher for gear or crests.
Not concerned about it because 99% of the playerbase doesn't do above 10s. If you're going higher, you're doing it for score or because you want to do harder keys.
As some one that's 2800 io first season doing m+. Sanguine is only a problem if mobs hard cast and you can't move them and you ran out of interrupts. That has been so frustrating to deal with Because there nothing you can do but let them finish the cast.
It's very frustrating if you play a class that has ground targeting damage over time spells like earthquake or rain of fire, although that's not super common
Exactly, blizzard catering to people who push keys is just wrong. They will hit a point where the tank either gets one shot or a random cast one shots everyone else. Under this system, there will be no reason to even try anymore once you hit the wall, on any week.
@@Krusin89 No one who doesn't push keys does above a +10. That's the whole point of push keys. If you don't want to deal with the scaling damage and one shots, don't do above 10s.
It virtually makes no difference if the arbitrary point of impossibility is reached at +23 or +20. Also when the devs know exactly which affixes will be active, dungeons are far easier to tune anyway. And with these static affixes at +12 and higher, it's basically as if dungeons don't have affixes at all.
Insanely stoked about 95% of these changes - thank god for the on-death affix removal. That being said... Xal'atath's Guile + Tyran = Bosses with +50% Health and Dmg. Unless Blizzard get ahead of this and drop the base Boss health by an absolute truckload, this will be a complete disaster for any key above a +12. You thought a 10min Iridikron fight was bad? Now every boss is 10mins.
Sure, but I'd guess this will affect only peeps actually pushing keys - to which a challenge will be an actual challenge, and not pushing like +30 out of the bat. 10 bucks says that doing
@@QuidTheLovelySquid A flat % increase isn't really much of a challenge, it can act more as a meta-enforcer if some classes just have a better ability to handle long fights
@@KombatGamesKaine That's not how the math in the M+ system works. Increases from Affixes are additive to the base %, then increases from Key levels are multiplicative on the new base %.
Catering to people who only care about score is an awful idea. These changes punish the tank and healer more than anyone. Guess what, you will hit a wall pushing keys, there will be zero variety on a weekly basis, and then you will stop trying. Keep affixes and award score for the affix and average out all of the affixes score to get an overall score. This would literally remove push weeks and make people push every week.
Rewarding score for affixes as they exist now would suck. There are too many affixes. You would have to play atleast 5 different weeks to get your score? Probably more depending on how exactly the pairs overlap. That's too much to ask.
People who don't care about score don't do above +10s. Anything above a +10 is a push key because there are no further rewards for going higher other than rating.
@@iamme625 Sure that's the current system and they could keep that if they wanted. But when the person i'm responding to said ''Keep affixes and award score for the affix...''. I assume they weren't saying keep the current system. But to have each individual affix (sanguine/bolstering/volcanic/...) have their own score as tyr/fort do now.
@@iamme625 some people just do it to be better. Be better at the affix, not just a score. I never viewed it as a push week, I viewed it as a way to play the affix better.
As someone who watched Breaking Bad 10 years ago please stop using the word cook. You have better words, use them. That being said good work I appreciate your content.
i dont read wowhead or any kind of blizz news , but its nice to have a pop up video like this that i could be interestered in , so this is the only source im getting for news and stuff and im always intertested to hear the opinion of tettles
It's pretty neat to hear a high end player liking these changes to m+ because so do I as a casual!
only some of the changes are good. the first half are good, the second half are terrible
nobody liked those affixes man. No high rating player no low rating one liked em
@@TheAsmodianleader Some high end players are actually complaining about it, Yoda just made a video where he rants about the changes, while casuals are very happy about it
great changes, good direction to move forward with
6:35 Xal'atath's Bargain: Frenzied only applies to Non-boss enemies Mr. Tettles
It’s a good change , a step on the right direction as I think the current setup is old and tired and people are fed up wit it
he completely misunderstood the Ascendant bargain lol it says disrupt not soak
To me it sounds like an orb with a line headed to a mob. So you would be soaking/intercepting it
You can understand that description in so many ways. "Rains down orbs" - Puddles to soak, everybody inside the puddle, friend or foe, gets the buff. "Disrupt these orbs" - You have to kick or stun them, and then you get a buff. Or you have something like with the third boss in Academy, where you have to run into the orbs, so the boss isn't getting them.
The wording is really unclear at the moment.
@@Schilani I agree it is unclear, I'm just saying disrupt has a precedent in Blizz lingo to mean cc/interrupt is all
I like it. Perma tyr/fort+xal 20% is still the same static amount of damage, essentially no affixes, and tuning around that should be easier for them and only make some mechanics slightly easier each week in low keys. Meanwhile in some low keys you sometimes get some extra value from learning what your spec is good at, like holding onto some stuff for 20% more damage in execute. This is good. I hope the seasonal xal'ateth affixes we HAVENT seen are gonna be awful casual m+ers.
Please increase the font size
This is the best change to M+ in a long while, and plays so well with the other really good change with bringing back old dungeons every season. When the biggest issue is that the new affixes (especially the ball soaks) seems so fun that it's a shame it won't be there in mid-high+ is the biggest gripe, they really nailed it.
This is really good since I was actually using these affixes as a canary of sorts. That they are doing something about the terrible affixes and doing it before it goes live (!!!!) sort of shows that they are, in fact, listening (this time, and so far).
this is the best thing they've done in a long time and I went from dreading the TWW season 1 with the last changes to genuinely excited now
Positive changes.. difficulty spike looks rough with tyran + fort + guile but I’m more worried about how much time that will add to +12 and higher keys.. I don’t want hour long keys
Well, for +12 and higher these changes don't matter. You aren't doing those keys for crests or equipment, you only do those for points anyway. Also this "spike" is a lot more player friendly, compared to the other affixes, considering that you don't have constantely changing difficulties. Every single week will be the same for +12 and higher. And even for lower difficulties, the swing from week to week will be less harsh.
@@Schilani "more player friendly" LMFAO, do you even realize the difficulty lvl step up? From an 11 to a 12? Pushing keys will be a shitshow. Just more focus on casual idiots and no end-game players.
The Xal'atath stuff is giving me Maven vibes from Path of Exile. She likes to empower and summon random nightmares from your past for you to deal with rather than fight you directly and literally makes you play games.
Yes 7s through 12s will rapidly scale but that is also the important range for gear rewards and it should help make clear the level of content those keys are designed for...
Despite how handsome and eloquent Tettles is, it's sad he can't read:
Xal’atath’s Bargain: Frenzied
Non-boss enemies ...
I love how Tettles still can't comprehend what "Non-boss" means.
so many great changes 10/10 for blizz listening to the players
Love when companies aren’t stubborn af and listen to the people playing the game. Well done 🎉
The jump between 9 and 10 will be big, but overall a W I think
Yeah, but they will fix timers a bit, so i doubt it will be that big of a problem.
11 to 12 will also be a big jump. 20% health and dmg is 2.5 ish keylevels in additional scaling. so its like going from 11 to 14.5
@@Ri4Fuevery death is +15 seconds. Terrible change. Higher chance for one shots again
@@johnlinks not a terrible change, stop being a bee with an itch
@@johnlinks If you're getting one shot in anything below like a current +15 then you're standing somewhere you're not supposed to.
the result of bullying the devs non stop
i'd say keep bullying and bully harder. seems to be really effective
I think the previous versions of the TWW affixes could have also worked if they had just made it without the damage type restriction.
That said I like the new idea more because it doesn't exclude specific damage types AND brings back season themes.
Best part by far is that they can keep the weekly affixes for people that only want to play for chest, so that they can keep the gameplay a bit more fresh with affixes that don't impact the gameplay in a big way but at the same time give for score pushes each week the same/remove affixes more or less completly.
That helps in different ways. Blizzard can balance dungeons better because they don't need to balance around tyranic and fortified seperate but can balance it with both active AND finally not the problem of "Oh no I don't have time next week but next week is push week".
No time? Bad week? Just play next week. Doesn't make a difference
I like that 12 and above basically has no affixes, since they dont rotate, so itll be the same every week. The main issue I see though, is their mob/boss tuning is either going to have to be perfect, OR theyre going to have to tune mobs in 12 and up separately from 11 and down. In 9 and down, u have either fort or tyrannical. 10-11 you have both. fine. but then at 12 you tack on yet another % multiplier to mobs/bosses bringing it up to 3 multipliers. if their tuning isn't immaculate, my god is that going to be an insane difficulty spike with each key level you go up from 12.
I can imagine the tuning will almost exclusively be targeted at 12 and above because its gonna be a lot more simple to tune now that its just 50% dmg and health base
I think it's the opposite; it's more that Fortified and Tyrannical are always active in a +12, so they just tune the content for the high end to make sense. Then when you drop in key level, Fort or Tyran is just removed, and the key will be much much easier as a result. No additional tuning needed, just zone in and blast with the fun Xal affix and vibe
Having Fort and Tyran always actives makes tuning a lot easier in the first place. Also +12 and higher just means, you are only going for the score anyway. No need to be too precise with tuning at that point, especially since you don't have push weeks anymore anyway. And if a +12 is out of whack, a +10 is as well. So the dungeon will need a tuning pass for lower and higher end players at the same time.
Also the spike will only be at 12. Because you go from a +11 basically up to a +14. But you still go up one key level at a time after that. So the difference between +12 and +13 will feel the same as a +14 to +15. It's not 20% per key level.
You beat Dratnos
As a mid-casual, I'd say they finally understood kiss/curse correctly, so I am happy about that.
To me as lower end MPlus user. I say user as I use it for gear and crests. I don't play for it for fun. But for me I don't instantly hate these changes, so that is HUGE.
Increaskng death timer penatly. They really cant help themsleves. The reason there is a timer is to prevent respawn point cheese from expansions of old. Dying is penalty enough.
For me personally, the only reason I do Mythic plus is to help my raid team succeed. I don't think it's a bad system overall, and I'm glad to see some of these changes, but mythic plus for me has been rough.
I do think that’s a more raid gearing issue than m+ issue. I do think they should be looking to fix that for sure.
I think heroic week coming back should help somewhat.
Hell yeah.
I've always chiefly been a raider, uninterested in pushing M+ beyond the point of rewards. +10s were more annoying than interesting due to complex encounter design plus several affixes on top, before even scaling up to breaking points.
This seems WAY more player-friendly, especially if I can get Fort/Tyran score simultaneously. It's also more dev-friendly since they can't help but make complicated trash, and they don't have to worry about how active affixes scale into high keys.
They should make the dungeons a lot quicker (smaller). It's a bit frustating to go flawless for 30mins and fk up last pull and gg you lost 30mins. Should be like challenger mode / maw of souls. Less rewards - faster dungeons
so up to level 12, you have potential buffs if you play well. will be nice for keys.
but at 12+ you lose the buffs, gain tyrannical and fortified, and also the mobs have 20% more health??? that's a large spike in difficulty there. I don't like that at all.
tbh i feel pretty good about this m+ changes!!
These changes actually feel like they originated from someone that M+’s. Kudos blizz. Much better effort
Welp this is gonna be bad for pugging overall. 12s are also just gonna be a gigantic wall of scaling aswell.
thank fucking god
Great changes for m+. The system is legit saved.
Lets goo, hearing bolster and sanguine is gone forever is a huge W for me
I mean the new guile affix is just bolstering pretty much
Waaaaaaaaay better way to design affixes, gj blizz
nope!
Usually get 3k every season, these changes are a big W for me
I really hate when I hear "these affixes were not really a problem at lower keys"
You know what every tank that want to do his weekly vault says when he sees sanguine?
Oh boy, it is sanguine week. LETS GOOO!
Great changes, no more "i dont wanna play this week because of X affix shiet". Fort and Tyran i can deal with
These Affix changes are SO FUCKING GOOD LETS FUCKING GOOOOOO!
Time penalty is an awful change. It’s just going to make keys more toxic and scare people away from M+
New changes are interesting. Still not sure why they are keeping fort/tyran--just re-adjust tuning for trash and bosses as the keys go up to be more static. No one likes long ass boss fights during tyran weeks.
With both of them always active at +10 and higher, dungeons are a lot easier to tune. You don't have these heavy swings of 2 minute to 5 minute boss fights from week to week. So I would expect them to always be tuned around 3 or so minutes instead.
Great changes!! The only thing is missing is the removal of the depletion mechanic. Can anyone explain how is that beneficial to the gameplay and community?
challange?
@@ssmbl the timer is the challenge, not the depletion
@@nomnomNACHO whats the deal with the timer then, if you can retry as many times as u want? i mean, i understand your opinion but it would kill my motivation, since its not a take all or nothing situation
@@ssmbl ??? The timer is good. The depletion mechanic is not. It limits who you would play with and everyone is scared of getting griefed.
Would you take your noob friend to a +15 with your own key? Knowing that you need that +15 for your push group? Not meeting the timer already feels bad, especially when you get a dc or a random idiot pug who leaves mid key bricking your key. On top of that shit show you now also have a lower ranked key. The punishment is already there, you wasted your time.
And if you beat the timer you get an upgrade. So you can push push see how far it can go and manually de-rank the key if you wish.
Pushing keys is now more boring same shit every week
15 sec death timer is cringe. Rets and hunters will be excluded
Biggest issue with these changes is the challenger affix. It's going to have potentially horrendous effects on pugging. One wipe could most likely lead to an instant leave.
Depending on level that's already the case lol.
I mean that happens pretty often already. Or you get ridiculous keys like DOTI: Lower where you can have 40 deaths and still comfortably time on relatively high key levels
@@DRivi93 well it will be more consistent past 7 for sure.
I mean it's only 15 secs, if you are at the point where 50 sec is the diff for your group i'd say it's kinda deserved to have it this way ? I dunno doesn't seem that bad to me
good direction, i do think guile should work differently for bosses than trash or should be worded that it adds % increased hp and dmg value for trash mobs and % increased hp and dmg for bosses instead of a flat increase across the board.
I’m concerned about what a +12 will do to pugging - I’m a healer in the 14-15 key range right now and it feels like a +12 will become a 14/15.
Maybe it’ll be fine but pugging can already be very punishing with deaths and also a toxic environment.
I can see more toxicity being thrown at healers for people dying and timers being depleted.
Also, seems odd to do fort AND tyran together since they almost cancel each other out.
In fact, there’s actually no affix +12 for all intents and purposes - just an increased death penalty and dungeon scaling changes due to the ‘affixes’.
My question would be: What are you pugging +12s and higher for? That's only for points anyway.
And as you are saying, at +12 and higher dungeons will always be the same. You are just playing the dungeon. You aren't going to have people accidentally ignore a mob in sanguine. Or not dispelling some afflicted ghost. It will make pugging more consistent as well. That the pugging community is needlessly toxic is a different issue, and no changes to the game will do anything about that.
Tyrannical AND Fortified at the same time on +10 is doggy wtf, amount of not even completed keys week 1 will be a disaster.
Dawnbreaker +10 week 1 12% completion mark my words.
Having both is actually good, because it's far easier to tune them. You don't have the heavy swings from week to week anymore. A +10 this week will feel pretty much the same as a +10 the next week. The difference between Fort and Tyran always was, that one week felt okay, while the other week felt shit. If both weeks feel the same, it's just like the affixes don't exist in the first place.
Overall it's likely to be an improvement... but challengers peril is just /facepalm. People rage at each other enough in pugs and this will make it worse. That's before we get to making it easier for trolls to brick keys on purpose.
Trolls will brick your keys no matter what. That's easy enough and shouldn't be something for Blizzard to take into consideration. If they were thinking about "But what if that player WANTS to sabotage the group?" then the whole thing would go nowhere.
And challengers peril is basically just something, that makes it so you aren't timing keys with 20+ deaths anymore. Which, to be frank, is ridiculous in the first place. But without the affixes that often where responsible for deaths, it's a different thing anyway. Now you aren't getting dragons with 5+ bolstering stacks anymore, so the next AoE will guaranteed wipe the group and cost you 25 second, plus the time to get back, plus the time it took to get it down to 30% health. Now that dragon will be basically the same every single week for keys in which it matters. But if you fuck up, it's more punshing.
The fact that the pugging community in WoW is needlessly toxic is a whole other deal.
New system sounds sick and all, im just confused how this was the second iteration? This is remarkably more fleshed out than the previous changes, idk how this was the pivot from a system that got negative feedback (the same feedback that has been given for years) instead of the initial plan. The idea that they came up with this on the fly is both very impressive and somewhat concerning. Only problem i have is potential falloff in season length, with how fast we gear now and each week being exactly the same with affixes we might end up maxing out keystones pretty early and having a kinda boring last half of the season
I suspect they've been working on this for a while, but they wanted to explore the other passive affixes to see how those worked as a concept.
good changes, i love them. +12 in the other hand loocking crazy. i think the gap between +11 and +12 is too much. Testing will show how this will play out.
Well, it's jumping from +11 to +14. But as that only affects the ones doing M+ for score, it's not that bad I would say.
will druids soothe work on Frenzied creatures? I wonder
If it's an enrage effect then yes. I don't think it will be though.
The question always would be: Do you want it to work? Because soothing enemies also means, that they live longer. I would guess it's only really interesting for the very heavy hitters, which can't be stunned.
Remove or severely nerf tyra and fort, then it's perfect. Otherwise it's just less bad than it was.
For +10 and +11 tyran and fort basically are non-existent. And from +12 onwards affixes as a whole are basically non-existent. The only time tyran and fort actually make a difference is +4 to +9. And at that range they are very manageable already, especially now without all the stupid other affixes like bolstering or sanguine.
Isn't adding Guile at 12 along w/ Fort AND Tyran both being active gonna be super punishing? Won't this make the dungeon 1-shots problem infinitely worse? What am I missing? This looks wild at 12+. Everything else here is a W. And if someone can tell me why I'm wrong about Guile, I'll definitely be willing to come around.
That's where people start pushing. There's no reward for going above +10s so increasing the challenge above that level and standardising the difficulty makes it easier to tune the numbers later on.
From +12 onwards dungeons basically have no affixes anymore. Sure, the point of one-shotting will be sooner, but let's be honest. If the arbitrary level of impossibility is at +23 or +20 makes virtually no difference.
Sounds like a lot of tank damage?
Now they should make m+ relevant for entire of the season.
Number of runs drop as season comes to an end.
They should do splits, similar what Riot Games is doing with LoL.
who still plays LoL game is in the same dumpster fire that Overwatch 2 is in. No one plays either of those for enjoyment. i know i dont atleast.
@@billjohnson2307 who plays most played multi player game???
Yee I don't know...
The reason number of runs goes down is because people stop playing towards the end of a season. There's no need to do m+ if you have all BIS gear and have cleared all the content you want to do. It's a player retention problem, not a specific activity relevance problem.
Removing the likes of Afflicted and Incorporeal was already a fantastic start (even if the initial "lesser" affixes had their own problems), but this is even better. Only issue is how they're going to incorporate Fortified and Tyrannical simultaneously without it getting out of hand.
Having both active at all times is kinda a blessing in disguise. Because you don't have the heavy swings from week to week anymore, which makes dungeons far easier to tune, as enemies aren't hitting like wet noodles in one week and just annihilating the tank in the next (sometimes due to the combination with other harsh affixes)
@@Schilani With the usual difficulty ramp of higher key levels, having both at once at that level is going to be a massive difficulty spike. I wonder if the individual boosts of Fortified and Tyrannical will be toned down for this reason.
in terms of having terrible affixes and dead weeks plus getting rid of bolstering, raging and sanguine, these changes are incredible!! However is no one else concerned about the combination of fort, tyrannical, and then another 20% damage and health on top of that from Xal’atath’s Guile?
Why would you? Having Fort and Tyran active makes tuning dungeons a lot more consistent. You don't have the heavy swings of one week the boss dies in 2 minutes, and the next it dies in 5. And 20% from Guile is just +2 key levels at a point, at which you only care about points anyway. You aren't doing +12s or higher for gear or crests.
Not concerned about it because 99% of the playerbase doesn't do above 10s. If you're going higher, you're doing it for score or because you want to do harder keys.
As some one that's 2800 io first season doing m+. Sanguine is only a problem if mobs hard cast and you can't move them and you ran out of interrupts. That has been so frustrating to deal with Because there nothing you can do but let them finish the cast.
It's very frustrating if you play a class that has ground targeting damage over time spells like earthquake or rain of fire, although that's not super common
Even with perfect movement it still ends up doing millions of healing which just makes the dungeon slower with no counterplay.
1st ? Maybe now blizz will reward me with a good vault for my servitude to Tettles
vault check
@@Tettles Will be back for a vault update in the morning :D
So high level key stone mobs will scale with keystone level, fortified, tyrannical and guile. People will start to get one-shoted pretty quickly
Exactly, blizzard catering to people who push keys is just wrong. They will hit a point where the tank either gets one shot or a random cast one shots everyone else.
Under this system, there will be no reason to even try anymore once you hit the wall, on any week.
@@Krusin89 It would be a lot easier for them to balance things if they remove the other two moddifiers, and tune the key level scaling for 12+
@@Krusin89 No one who doesn't push keys does above a +10. That's the whole point of push keys. If you don't want to deal with the scaling damage and one shots, don't do above 10s.
@@recnaito That's essentially what they've done though with the affix.
It virtually makes no difference if the arbitrary point of impossibility is reached at +23 or +20. Also when the devs know exactly which affixes will be active, dungeons are far easier to tune anyway. And with these static affixes at +12 and higher, it's basically as if dungeons don't have affixes at all.
Insanely stoked about 95% of these changes - thank god for the on-death affix removal. That being said...
Xal'atath's Guile + Tyran = Bosses with +50% Health and Dmg. Unless Blizzard get ahead of this and drop the base Boss health by an absolute truckload, this will be a complete disaster for any key above a +12.
You thought a 10min Iridikron fight was bad? Now every boss is 10mins.
Sure, but I'd guess this will affect only peeps actually pushing keys - to which a challenge will be an actual challenge, and not pushing like +30 out of the bat. 10 bucks says that doing
@@QuidTheLovelySquid A flat % increase isn't really much of a challenge, it can act more as a meta-enforcer if some classes just have a better ability to handle long fights
Which "on death affix" was removed? Did I miss something? (:
more than 50%. its the 30% for tyran, and then 20% applied AFTER that 30% has been applied.
@@KombatGamesKaine That's not how the math in the M+ system works. Increases from Affixes are additive to the base %, then increases from Key levels are multiplicative on the new base %.
Catering to people who only care about score is an awful idea. These changes punish the tank and healer more than anyone. Guess what, you will hit a wall pushing keys, there will be zero variety on a weekly basis, and then you will stop trying.
Keep affixes and award score for the affix and average out all of the affixes score to get an overall score. This would literally remove push weeks and make people push every week.
Rewarding score for affixes as they exist now would suck. There are too many affixes. You would have to play atleast 5 different weeks to get your score? Probably more depending on how exactly the pairs overlap. That's too much to ask.
@@luckygozer Not really, they'd just do it for fort/tyran like always and keep the 2 week cycle.
People who don't care about score don't do above +10s. Anything above a +10 is a push key because there are no further rewards for going higher other than rating.
@@iamme625 Sure that's the current system and they could keep that if they wanted. But when the person i'm responding to said ''Keep affixes and award score for the affix...''. I assume they weren't saying keep the current system. But to have each individual affix (sanguine/bolstering/volcanic/...) have their own score as tyr/fort do now.
@@iamme625 some people just do it to be better. Be better at the affix, not just a score. I never viewed it as a push week, I viewed it as a way to play the affix better.
As someone who watched Breaking Bad 10 years ago please stop using the word cook. You have better words, use them. That being said good work I appreciate your content.
Please do not read entire pages of text from the screen, people can read that themselves, they are most likely here to hear your opinion.
Each their opinion on it, for me this is perfect cause I'm listening while doing cardio in gym.
@@robbe6194 U lying and we both know it.
I dont mind, i dont bother reading the whole text, so him reading through it is fine, other channels of high end players do it too.
Dratnos also read it entirely, you gonna tell him how to run his channel too?
After looking at other videos, everyone else is reading everything. You should go tell them how to run their channels too.
We can read, doing this sort of content is horrible
Then dont watch it.?? For what the hate? Some people like the opinion of tettles..
i dont read wowhead or any kind of blizz news , but its nice to have a pop up video like this that i could be interestered in , so this is the only source im getting for news and stuff and im always intertested to hear the opinion of tettles