I think though that his analysis was deeply flawed, and that they should have given better pushback. The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all. The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
@@Bike_Lion They are losing WHITE working class support. Not non-white working class support. There's a difference and it's a crucial one. And even then, Biden won the majority of working class votes this year. That's exactly what data shows: working class whites vote based on culture issues not economic issues.
@@sanwalkazi1569 The issue becomes alienation and scapegoats. When you have someone to blame for your problems you gain control over situation.Populism provides this. The right in England sees this and exploiting it to gain power.
Some people would call it incoherence. While news itself is random, editorials (opinions by the hosts) should have more longevity. Otherwise, they’re nothing more than knee jerk reactions.
@@DI-uk9rj Surely you're not implying that either of the duopolist parties (dems and republicans) are actually "worker's parties" cuz that's laughable. You've got a batshit donor class party and a tepid professional managerial class party. That's it.
That may be a cause, though politicians focus on them as well. And to be honest, many people really do care about cultural issues. i.e. conservatives that vote Republican simply because of abortion
@@allegracomas6085 - That's very naive... The media aren't some sort of neutral mirror. They have owners, who have agendas. This past summer, for example, if we'd had a mass movement focused on economic demands, rather than BLM and its focus on race/identity issues, the media would have covered (or not covered) them quite differently!
@@kg-ke1fw The problem with your thesis is that it presupposes that a true public servant would actually be nominated. I think our last one that was even close (albeit with flaws) was Carter.
the two-party system by nature favors conservatives because conservatives tend to look for absolutist leadership, to the point of authoritarian dictator types; whereas on the left we value individualism, to the point of splintering the party and leadership, resulting in a very fractured political field.. its a pyramid vs inverse-pyramid power dynamic
Krystal and Saagar thinks economic populism propelled Trump. This study shows that voters are motivated by their view of others whether they disdain immigrants or whether they welcome diversity. This was the single issue that people in Britain voted on when it came to Brexit. How many Trump supporters would vote their own economic interests and I would definitely put healthcare in that category. His supporters hatred of immigrants is what drove them to the polls.
No one is obliged to vote for his economic interest, you can vote for your social/cultural/racial interest. I totally understand republicans, a million immigrant every single year (10 million every decade) is too much to digest.
@@user-jy5qm8nc9m The funny thing is right wing parties use anti immigration rhetoric to get working class support . But then act to cut workers rights and undermine regulations that then Allow Big Business to bring in cheap foreign labour, making fools of their voters. This happened in Britain after Brexit and during the COVID pandemic when thousands of east Europeans were flown in to do fruit picking.
Fascinating interview. When he said you can tell how someone will vote more if you know their cultural preferences vs. their economic status, I was impressed by just how true that is to my everyday experience when meeting regular people.
It really comes down to where people live. Rural areas are Republican, cities are Democrat. You can easily see it in maps of how people vote. A lot of it is probably that the rural areas are the ones who've been decimated by outsourcing and they don't see things getting better.
Lmao exactly. Not surprising at all though. Krystal and Saagar (esp Saagar) are a little naive when it comes to how race plays a part in politics. In the south it’s very apparent
@@IAintTheDaddyMaury - Race, along with other culture/identity/wedge issues play a role because the oligarchy wants them to, and that's why they constantly hype such issues in the media outlets they own, fund such discourse with their foundations and universities, etc., etc.. The one who's "a little naive" here is the guest, who's like "I wouldn't put the blame on capitalists dividing people." ( 10:33 ) LMAO!
@Dick. I don't think so, and I think they should have given better pushback. The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to look at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all. The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
@@Bike_Lion I’ve grew up in the south all of my life. You would imagine that blacks and whites are more close than what they actually are. The way that America was structured, enslaving a race of people for 400 years, definitely has an effect on how we interact with each other sad to say. Could the media exacerbate it? Absolutely. Did they create it? No. If the media preached about love and coming together, I can assure you that it wouldn’t happen. You really think that a county that had legal racial turmoil for hundreds of years can fully heal and all come together after less than 100 years? That seems absurd
Of course this is true. Think about blue collar white workers who are in unions but they have voted for years for repubs who have been decimating unions for decades, now of course since the dems (diet repubs) have done this also. But historical dems have been the party of the union. Also Trump's economy was contracting before covid and he has outsourced 387k jobs in 4 years and they still voted heavily for him.
Disagree. His analysis strikes me as deeply flawed, and I think they should have given better pushback. The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all. The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
@@Bike_Lion stop copy pasting the same rubbish under every comment. Wake up and smell the coffee. This guy was spot on and everyone knows this deep down whether they like to admit it or not.
@@debaratimukherjee2477 - Wrong. His study had obvious flaws which were apparent at first glance, and that's even taking his presentation of the data at face-value and assuming it wasn't "massaged," which it likely was. A lot of the SJWs and neolibs in the comments section are creaming their jeans over this segment though, because he told them what they want to hear. These folks don't like talking or thinking about class issues, but *LOVE* focusing on identity politics!
Great example. Bernie Sanders was able to unify workers, and it terrifies those who want to blame culture or race instead of the bosses who drive wages lower with their corrupt power.
Unfortunately, Bernie was unable to win the Democratic primary... really it wasn't even close once he and Biden were heads up. This isn't because Biden has more popular positions, it is because culturally more Americans perceive themselves ad middle of the road moderates rather than economic revolutionaries. It's sad, but the bottom line is that true economic progressive make up about 30% of the Democratic base, and probably just 10% of the overall electorate.
@@MrTheLuckyshot and boy does that fact piss them off every day. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them are too scared to start their own party out of fear of learning just how popular they really are.
@@pauljackson1709 Yup. And a lot of those votes, turns out, were more anti-Clinton than pro-Sanders. If Bernie kept all of his voters from 2016 he would have probably won the 2020 nomination.
I wonder how such analysis would look like in another country. Maybe Americans vote based on cultural issues because Democrats and Republicans are fairly similar on economic issues.
They do overlap on a lot of issues and neither side does anything really for the white working class (and Democrats are downright hostile towards them) and Andrew Yang felt this when he was traveling across the country and saw how people acted to him when he said he was running as a Democrat. A lot of it comes down to people who are now voting Republican are doing so because they despise the Democratic Party more and Trump paid some lip service which is more than they usually get.
I’ve been waiting for this very segment! I love the show but Krystal and especially Saagar always seemed to be naive when it came to how much culture really does play in our politics. Living in the south I see first hand. Many of the working class blacks and whites have much of the same economic interests but vote different based on cultural issues. You would imagine that many of the disenfranchised whites in the south would be all in for Medicare for all, raising the minimum wage and having better access to education but they don’t support the candidates that advocate for that 🤷🏿♂️
I think you're right but the question then is can this be changed and if so, how? Because if it can't then we are all doomed to Neoliberalism's staying power.
@@BryanBMusic man I’m not even sure. It’ll definitely take some time, it’s really saddening to be honest. I agree that Neoliberalism would rule if something doesn’t happen at least in the next 5 years
@@IAintTheDaddyMaury yeah. I'm trying to persuade as many people as I can. I know 99+ percent of the time it won't work but 1 percent can make a difference in terms of votes under an Electoral College system.
This guys data on social issues governing voting patterns tracks with my family experience. 2 of my brothers support Trump. The older brother originally voted Trump based on Trump’s anti-immigration policies and the promise to bring back manufacturing jobs. My younger brother supported Trump based on religious convictions. My older brother is still loyal to Trump even though he works in low-wage manufacturing and admits that Trump failed to bring back manufacturing jobs. Trump’s anti-immigration rants just land with my older brother more than Trump’s failures on manufacturing. Also, my older brother loves, loves, loves Trump’s tough talking anti-PC act.
Can't speak for your family in particular, but I think this also has to do with the fact that there aren't any good alternatives. I mean, what economic message does Biden have to offer? When you only have opposing cultural values that's all you can vote on.
@@gosperalex2772 I mean he has advocated for a 15 dollar minimum wage, the bill is passed through the house. As well as promising to raise the corporate tax rate. Is it much, no, but it’s a better economic plan than trump ever offered in 4 years
The left has totally failed to stay connected and educate workers on these issues. The establishment is winning. An example: When unions first enter a work place they first face great push back from the workers themselves until they convince them of their rights. Same with progressive movements of all kinds. First they face tremendous pushback from the very groups themselves they are trying to help. Therefore one can conclude that the economic left has totally failed in staying connected to the working class, and allowed corporations to control the war. To the point that they (the working class), don’t even vote on the issues that most effect them.
@@Sometimes_Happiness yeah, keep using the "Republicans are racist" talking point and ignore any racism coming from Democrats. That wears off over time and more and more minorities aren't buying it anymore. The only people who buy that argument these days are rich white liberals who want to feel good about themselves. In spite of people like you constantly calling Trump a racist for the past 4 years, he got more non-white support than any Republican in the past 60 years and he even lost support among white men. It's also funny how you don't accuse people who voted for Joe Biden as racist when he has a history of being friends with segregationists , writing the '94 crime bill which disproportionally hurt blacks, beefing up the war on drugs, and making many racially insensitive comments ("I don't want my kids growing up in a racial jungle", "Barack Obama is the first mainstream articulate and clean African American", "If you can't decide whether to vote for me or Trump, then you ain't black", "Unlike the black community, the Hispanic community is diverse", etc.) Every 4 years, Democrats pretend to care about blacks just to get their vote and then they turn around and let their communities suffer. Maybe the Dems are also racist and see blacks as nothing more than political weapons to get into power?
This segment gave me life. Class consciousness is a leftist concept and always has been & you have to educate constituent's it you ever want to move politics away from the cultural stuff.
Most of the working class people I know voted republican. Some of it was culture, but not all. People in general have 3-5 issues they care about. They tend to vote for the person who's positions on those issues match theirs. Those issues tend to be a mix of cultural and economic.
Of course everything is objectively connected, but what people vote on is their subjective analysis of the situation in light of their values. I think the data described in the video showed that we are a diverse society in which many people value other things than pure economics first. I know many people that put faith and family first, even over the wallet issues. I know people who distrust politics and who vote on single issues: abortion, guns, etc. And he is correct that Trump used the immigration issue to great effect. (I lived in California through the 1980's and 90's and saw how it became the #1 issue there at that time, bringing Pete Wilson to the governorship.) Immigration spreading into small towns across America became a rallying issue in the last fifteen years for those who saw their local culture changing for many reasons and didn't like it. The Parties ignored their concerns but Trump embraced them. Wouldn't be the first time in American history that immigration affected people's perceptions about their culture's future with political consequences: the 1850's and 1920's, for example.
I mean how much of an impact would abortion or trans rights have on the economy? I doubt very many peoples opinions on those two things are formed based on economics.
@@stephenbailey9969 The problem is, I don't know where that data came from. The impact on Trump warmth thing. Do you? I cannot find it for the life of me.
Yet another person bursting their bubble about all of this being about economics. It would be nice if they would engage with the subject in their larger analysis more often. This is not the first time this has come up but they always fall back on their tired class issues being the core of the problem.
I think it is common sense that economic policies are as important as cultural issues! However, since both political parties have the same economic policies, cultural issue is more important! Most people are smart enough to differentiate between rhetoric and actual policies
All statistics can be misleading. Statistics is the easiest science to manipulate to get whatever answers you want. It should only be added on to an argument, never be the argument.
Except one party activity fights for a higher minimum wage, more people to have health insurance, and more economic relief, while the other party actively fights against those things.
@@jakobwashington5878 No, one parry claims to be for those things. But never act or follow through, when they get the power. When is the last time a democrat in power or congress gave you any of those things?
@@jakobwashington5878 Kinda like, democrats will "maybe" show up in a black american neighborhood, while running for election. But forget they even exist, until its time for election again.
@@franklin9400 $15 minimum wage passed in the house by democrats; Obamacare, no matter milquetoast I and others think it was, expanded healthcare coverage to around 20 million Americans; and the establishment republicans were fighting to get as little economic relief as possible that’s why reducing the amount of relief was considered a compromise with the GOP. Not only this they actively fight against these things, Trump said in the debate stage that he was against $15 minimum wage while Biden was for it and a month or two ago the GOP was trying to get rid of Obamacare and thus leave millions uninsured during a pandemic. I understand and to a certain extent agree with the sentiment that they both suck, but you have to be living under a rock or willfully ignorant to thing that they’re EQUALLY as bad for workers.
A foundation of conservativism is profits over people. It is impossible (and dishonest) for a political movement to represent billionaires and corporate America. And say they protect workers.
@John Truxal 90% of the The Democratic Party belongs in the Republican Party. Obama, Pelosi, the Clintons... They are all closet Republicans. The US has TWO right wing parties.
Is Richard Hannania a republican/conservative/Trumper? I follow him on Twitter and he always has a lot of criticisms of republicans but he often seems to be pushing their narratives too.
I think some of this study is true in that there are a lot of culturally conservative voters who were more motivated by Trump to get out and vote than they were before, and that the culture war ultimately wins out. But, it ignores fundamentally the amount of voters who were democrats that voted for Obama twice and then Trump. Did it actually go out and interview swing voters? Bc I fear this depended too much on people who were already favorable to republicans in the first place. Of course there’s merit to the idea that people wanted a scapegoat for their problems - that’s undeniable, but seems to be an oversimplification.
The correlation with opioid deaths and automation is easy to explain: those people are hurting economically, but they choose to project their misfortune onto cultural issues.
The first part of what you're saying directly contradicts what he said. And sure, "culture war" plays a role, but Trump wasn't talking about trade and tariffs for no reason, and immigration (just like "free trade") also functions as a method of wage-arbitrage.
@@Bike_Lion contradicts how? All I've said is common knowledge: people who are suffering are more vulnerable to reactionary thinking. And I doubt the average Trump voter is thinking about "wage-arbitrage" when Trump talks about trade, tariffs, and immigration. All they hear is that their guy is gonna stick it to the foreigners because MAGA. The few people who voted Trump primarily for economic reasons were some of the quickest to have regrets and abandon ship. His hard-core supporters are all in on the culture war and "owning the libs".
@@NinjaxPrime Both sides are focused specifically on culture wars alone. Its that way for a reason, so you don't pay attention to what they really do in Washington.
@@franklin9400 it's a shell game, sure. But just telling people that isn't going to make their cultural beliefs and prejudices suddenly disappear. Those things must be addressed or the cycle goes on.
We’ve seen time and time again that industries are willing to promote politics and cultural messages even at the clear and obvious expense of profit. That should indicate culture actually matters. Look at Mexico. A bunch of their people come here to make money, but they proudly carry their culture and heritage anywhere they go disdain the thought of being proficient in English.
An underexplored correlation is 'sensibility.' Republican sensibility is more direct, concerned with money, loyalty, patriotism/gratitude. Democrat sensibility is more empathic, concerned with minority groups, speaking truth to power, idealistic.
@AspiretotheStars What he calls aid, yes. These measures mostly turn out to be black mail, of sort. Such as the requirement of sterilization for all women who wanted AIDS or Malaria treatment, that was instituted in some countries by the Gates Foundation.
Race/culture is the single must determinative factor for a Trump voter.I have been saying this since 2016 but Krystal and Saagar ALWAYS push this ridiculous talking point of the 'forgotten' white man. You guys greatly underestimate the power of racism in GOP politics. Anyway, congrats to Krystal and Saagar for at least admitting that they have been wrong four more than 4 years.
That's why they were saying they didn't like the study. But, what a breath of fresh air that they, unlike other public personalities, didn't use some form of mental gymnastics to explain it away. At least they haven't yet...
Disagree. His analysis strikes me as deeply flawed, and I think they should have given better pushback. The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all. The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades! (And that's just taking what he says about the data at face value, and assuming it wasn't "massaged." ;-))
Analytics can’t be ignored. At the same time, as a sports fan I can concretely conclude they aren’t totally accurate when dealing with super complex issues like human behavior. An obvious problem with his theory is over half the people don’t vote. Another problem is that if people don’t feel democrats or republicans are looking after their economic interests, why would they choose their vote on it? Another way to look at this is propaganda works. If propaganda focus’s on cultural issues, media, and the two parties focus on cultural issues, cultural issues are what people are going to vote on. It could be concluded that given our politics is focused on cultural issues, people who care deeply about cultural issues are more likely to vote, whereas those who would vote based economic issues are in the half that stays away (not saying this is the case, just putting it forward as a possibility). Not saying there is no validity to this mans study but it’s an overreaction to conclude its the final word. Just like any analytical model.
The reason you can’t tell how a person will vote based on their economics is because neither party serves the working class. It is clear what their positions are in culture. Politicians use culture to herd people in one camp or the other, so the can oppose each other, rather than come together to oppose the corporate class. I tell my fellow Blacks all the time that it’s a mistake to divorce race issues from class issues, because the former is a tool of the latter.
Number 1 predictor of how someone is going to vote is where they live. Rural areas went Trump and cities went Biden. This is consistent across the entire country. The cultural issues are huge though (mainly because neither side has offered solutions to most working class people). I knew as soon as Trump talked about illegals coming over and putting a tax on imports equivalent to the tax they put on our goods he was going to win back when nobody else thought it was going to happen. The biggest problem he had this time around was getting away from what made him win in 2016.
I would like K&S not to feel too badly about this analysis. To me, what it shows is what I have seen, which is how corporate media discourse for so many decades, particularly since the 1960s, push cultural views to dominate over economic views. People decide if someone is a liberal or conservative based upon cultural issues, which fits an agenda corporate media executives want. If the working classes and poor fighting each other, "we" meaning rich people and corporation executives win. People have definite economic positions under polling data for a decade, but they have been led to believe the only thing they get to decide when voting is about virtue signaling cultural issues. What I noticed about some people who refused to vote for Sanders is their belief that he can't win, and he can't get anything done if he won. Where did they hear that? Day after day after day after day of corporate media punditry parroting propaganda.
Richard's results are ENTIRELY consistent with the old adage that people vote based on their pocketbooks. Since Dems and Reps do not differ substantially on economic issues, people are forced to choose based on tribal face paint.
@@theopkingdom3433 You do realize, polls take political affiliation, race, and age into account, and don't just blindly base it off one parties view right?
Is a workers party even possible? Is culture war an inexorable consequence of cultural melting pots? Are we doomed to having to append trade policy, minimum wage, healthcare, policing, public safety, public health, tax policy, etc to identity of it's to have any chance of passing? I'm struggling with the implications of this, what does this say about the future of politics, how are we to integrate this information for use in politics?
Ann Coulter and Stephen Miller had this best. Enforce E-Verify. It’s existing law settled by the courts. There’s not need for a xenophobic round up or an expensive wall. Simply enforcing existing immigration law would take care of this, but you’re right, no appetite on the hill for a solution that would actually work. Too many donors to upset.
This was hard to hear for someone that shares your outlook on class being a broader and less acknowledged defining line but I love and appreciate you for challenging our prior notions
Don't be too discouraged. What this really means that in order for a working class coalition to succeed, we must do the hard work of uprooting the racial and cultural prejudice endemic in this country. And progressives have that on the agenda anyway.
I’m got a third party but just look at who donated to which party. Wall Street and billionaires all donated to the democrat party and the it was mostly ordinary citizens that donated to the Republican Party so that’s a good indicator of which party is for the working class.
@@Timmeh_The_tyrant nah fam, it’s just educated ppl can’t listen to Rush Limbaugh, Ben Shapiro, and Steven crowder and think to themselves “wow, these people are very educated and have logical points that would help the whole of society.” I’ve been at uni for 3 yrs and there is no “liberal bias” there are just educated ppl who know history enuf to be able to see that there are many problems in our society that we still haven’t fully come to terms with
The only working class party is on Friday night after work ... if you’ve never been to a little dive bar in the Midwest on a Friday after work you ain’t livin right
The four year college degree should not be taken out of context. My theory is that it means that younger ppl are more supportive of a more integrated and tolerant country than older Americans. I don’t believe that the “degree” is the cause as much as the age and life experience of the ppl.
People in the comments are cracking me up. Acting like their side doesn't get out to the polls because of the culture war too. Pull your heads out of your asses, people. You might both have different beliefs, but if you're acting in very similar ways, you're not all that different to a lot of us... Not a good look, no matter what side you're on.
Voters in general might not vote because of economics, but the critical voters, the ones that tipped the scales in 2016, that switched from dems to reps switched (mostly) because of Trump's economic populist rhetoric.
The summary to this guy's report tells Republicans they should focus on culture war issues, not helping working people. "Economic policies that seek to address working-class concerns but hinder overall growth can alienate both voters and donors for little gain." A ton of dubious assumptions there - and the reference to donors rings an alarm bell.
a true working class party should be pro socialist policies and anti immigration, republicans can be anti immigration , they cant be socialists, dems can be socialists but not restrictionists. this is kinda conundrum, having said that progressivism + anti immigration is a election winner, my guess is josh hawley/tucker carlson will be that kinda politicians
Ultimately we have to remember that this is a study - some aspects of it are true, but some are oversimplified. It seems that this didn’t look at many economic issues.
His argument towards the end majorly faltered when Krytle questioned him on unions. Though I do strongly agree with him too. But this is part of why I find individual studies being hailed as proof highly problematic. A meta-analysis of data is much more scientific and reliable rather than one study and its indications. Can we really discount so many factors including the much predicted rise of populism post economic recession?! I do wish that more studies look into the impact of college education on politics and culture wars too.
Listen up Krystal and Saager, the nuances in this piece are sooo much more important than this actual moment. When you look back, this will probably be one of the most important pieces of your careers!
America seemed to give up on the role of unions nearly 10 years ago... I think the urge to limit immigration was an attempt for people in that context to allow society post union to somehow raise its living standards and not challenge wage competitiveness to immigration. Like society needed time to catch up with how mAny people were here and that wages weren’t keeping up with cost of living expenses in rural America compared to metropolitan areas. I feel like a lot of people have amnesia with how paranoid a lot of rural people were about stagnant wages because so many immigrants were willing to work for less and I just personally do not think that’s something minimum wages can fix. There’s so many pathways to navigate this topic though. Just a thought.
Cultural issues are identity issues; however, it's the economic issues that are critical for survival. Am I understanding Richard correctly - cultural messages have a greater impact on voters, opposed to economic?
Making political predictions based solely on economics remains unreliable, until you factor in how racist, authoritarian, theocratic, and psychopathic/social Darwinist they are. I can give you an entire litany of metrics to make that assessment, based on the anatomy of tribal instincts demonstrating authoritarian characteristics. You can use behavioral social science to make determinations all day long, and continue to not know what I know, or improve the human condition. And you can use evolutionary psychology to prosecute behavioral economics with greater efficacy, and never use evolutionary biology to improve the human condition.
The reason you can't tell how someone votes based on their economic status is because both democrats and republicans are THE SAME on economic issues. The only real difference between the two parties is on social issues. This is why we so desperately need the *People's Party* that will actually provide a significant choice for people on economic issues.
What about this nuance to that study? What if the reason most voters are influenced by cultural divisions is because they've been intentionally misled to not know what's actually at stake? What if the culture war is a result of the fact that most people have been systematically indoctrinated & robbed of quality education so as not to be able to see that cultural differences have always been used by a powerful minority of plutocrats; to keep those who are drawn to cultural divisions, fighting amongst themselves; so that those few greedy military industrialists & their other plutocrat friends could sweep up the spoils of their war?
I am not convinced by Richard Hanania’s conclusions. Cultural issues however that is defined is not as strong a predictor as economic. The middle class has eroded even more in the last 10 years as in the last 30 years. Subject Donald Trump’s constituency from the Republican Party and there is almost no Republican voters left. In this last election 95% of Republicans voted for Trump. The Republicans cannot win with 5% of the Republican vote. This is why Lincoln Project Republicans and Never Trumpers are supporting their fellow plutocrats in the Democrat Party.
Neither side is doing anything for the economic issues affecting the working class, so of course, economic issues don't affect the choice of candidates or party affiliation of workers either.
But how could you expect economics to be the driver of electoral politics when every issue has been to reduced to a culture war? Saying culture drives voting behaviour makes perfect sense given that people have given up on the political process being able to change their material conditions. That’s a far cry from saying that economics is not determinative of political attitudes more generally. Any serious study of say, the white working class has to acknowledge the overwhelming role that social and economic decline plays in people’s political outlooks. The fact that most of these people don’t even vote shows you how limited this “culture is king” argument is.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm in the South, born and raised. I can tell you right now that the Trump/Hillary election persuaded me that reality was different than I previously believed. I don't know every single soul in the South, but over and over people pointed to, yes, the immigration issue, but it was always about economics. Most want a wall, because they believe that immigrants are the reason pay is low and jobs hard to find. Not a single politician in my memory has run a campaign educating them otherwise, because the politicians will not point out that their corporate owners are the real problem. The politicians and media define the terms of the election. I also heard that Trump was going to bring back jobs. I heard from Kentucky relatives that Hillary hated coal -- their only livelihood. People had picked up the idea that NAFTA and TARP and trade agreements were devastating their lives. Doesn't mean they hate the Chinese. I think this guy is leaving out a whole lot of context when he analyses his numbers.
"Why is it people in other countries vote their class interests and Americans don't?" Because of RACE, Krystal. It's always been because of race. For like 150 years. Ever since the Reconstruction era cultural/race issues have trumped class in politics.
It will remain impossible to have a useful discussion about immigration if the conversation is predicated on the presumption that anyone not wanting open borders is both a racist and that it is substantially or entirely that putative racism which drives their outlook on immigration. That's how you wind up with any chance of either discussion or understanding the subject strangling itself in the cradle.
They don’t get how other countries handle immigration. Mexicans certainly don’t want Guatemalans and Hondurans coming into Mexico. The Dutch don’t want even other white people coming in. The Japanese certainly don’t want even other Asians coming in. Diverse countries like India were actually once even more diverse until they couldn’t handle it and shed blood to split the country up. That’s how we got Pakistan.
It's CRUCIALLY important to note that the distinction this guy attempts to make at the end, between some implied *vague* capitalist tactical efforts to thwart class solidarity and the "mere" effects of culture experienced through this "war" of ours, are in fact the same thing. American capitalist culture as a whole whether it's anti-immigration or woke-pan-everythingism only has the purpose of thwarting class solidarity and both sides have been unmistakably designed and established by rich plutocrats solely for their own benefit. Right populism is a sham though. Just take Saagar. Whatever good may come from his favored policies, he wants to divert those gains to either a new cold war with China or consumerism and gdp growth. He doesn't want the plutocracy to really have to give up anything substantial, just look at how utterly terrified he was by a little looting and capital destruction if you want proof. The important thing here being it's not enough for people to know that right populism is a sham, but rather why it is so.
The thing is, both major political parties represent the rich and upper middle class. Those are the people who tend to vote the most. Mainly because they CAN take time off work to vote, but also because they feel like they feel like they have more to lose, and they give political donations to try and sway policy for causes they believe in. There is no real party of the working class. But, if someone could assemble such a party, it would be extremely powerful
This isn't surprising. We need more class consciousness and we need to convince people to stop scapegoating immigrants/"welfare queens" instead of the corporations that make these bad conditions for working families. Doing that persuasion is going to take a long time.
![BAK Jay - Find Out (For Your Love) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/10FJO_XBCvY/mqdefault.jpg)
This is what is great about this show.. They are willing to hear views /evidence that goes against even their own previous knowledge
I think though that his analysis was deeply flawed, and that they should have given better pushback.
The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all.
The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
@@Bike_Lion They are losing WHITE working class support. Not non-white working class support. There's a difference and it's a crucial one. And even then, Biden won the majority of working class votes this year. That's exactly what data shows: working class whites vote based on culture issues not economic issues.
@@sanwalkazi1569 The issue becomes alienation and scapegoats. When you have someone to blame for your problems you gain control over situation.Populism provides this. The right in England sees this and exploiting it to gain power.
Some people would call it incoherence. While news itself is random, editorials (opinions by the hosts) should have more longevity. Otherwise, they’re nothing more than knee jerk reactions.
@@Bike_Lion Dems didn't lose whites because of economics, though. They lost it after the passage of the CRA of 64.
The only worker's parties in the US are 3rd parties.
that's just not reality. third parties in the US represent libertarianism and environmentalism.
@@DI-uk9rj Surely you're not implying that either of the duopolist parties (dems and republicans) are actually "worker's parties" cuz that's laughable. You've got a batshit donor class party and a tepid professional managerial class party. That's it.
@Umbra Vatis It would be better to start fresh and let the Democrats and Republicans that don't jump ship combine into their own corporate party.
He seems to not factor in the media focusing solely on cultural issues. Maybe that is why it decides votes so much?
That may be a cause, though politicians focus on them as well. And to be honest, many people really do care about cultural issues.
i.e. conservatives that vote Republican simply because of abortion
The media is a reflection of the dominant cultural narrative of history, it perpetuates dynamics but doesn't produce them to begin with.
@@allegracomas6085 - That's very naive...
The media aren't some sort of neutral mirror. They have owners, who have agendas.
This past summer, for example, if we'd had a mass movement focused on economic demands, rather than BLM and its focus on race/identity issues, the media would have covered (or not covered) them quite differently!
@@Bike_Lion it’s black people that actually care about BLM like myself. I didn’t care because the media told me to
It's not just the media. It's every athlete, musician, actor, etc...consistently lecturing you from one side.
We can’t put our hope in two party’s who have a monopoly on the system and get funded by corporations.
We can actually, if people voted against it. They are too dumb apparently. Voters that supported FDR and his policies for decades did though.
@@kg-ke1fw The problem with your thesis is that it presupposes that a true public servant would actually be nominated. I think our last one that was even close (albeit with flaws) was Carter.
Lmao that's what you took away from this video????? lolololollolol
the two-party system by nature favors conservatives because conservatives tend to look for absolutist leadership, to the point of authoritarian dictator types; whereas on the left we value individualism, to the point of splintering the party and leadership, resulting in a very fractured political field.. its a pyramid vs inverse-pyramid power dynamic
@@obiwankenobi661 tell that to the tea party and freedom caucus who _DECIMATED_ the republican party and drove out the establishment leadership.
Krystal and Saagar thinks economic populism propelled Trump. This study shows that voters are motivated by their view of others whether they disdain immigrants or whether they welcome diversity. This was the single issue that people in Britain voted on when it came to Brexit. How many Trump supporters would vote their own economic interests and I would definitely put healthcare in that category. His supporters hatred of immigrants is what drove them to the polls.
No one is obliged to vote for his economic interest, you can vote for your social/cultural/racial interest. I totally understand republicans, a million immigrant every single year (10 million every decade) is too much to digest.
@@user-jy5qm8nc9m I’m for immigration but limited. Too much leads to backlash.
@@user-jy5qm8nc9m The funny thing is right wing parties use anti immigration rhetoric to get working class support . But then act to cut workers rights and undermine regulations that then
Allow Big Business to bring in cheap foreign labour, making fools of their voters. This happened in Britain after Brexit and during the COVID pandemic when thousands of east Europeans were flown in to do fruit picking.
Fascinating interview. When he said you can tell how someone will vote more if you know their cultural preferences vs. their economic status, I was impressed by just how true that is to my everyday experience when meeting regular people.
Yup me too
It really comes down to where people live. Rural areas are Republican, cities are Democrat. You can easily see it in maps of how people vote. A lot of it is probably that the rural areas are the ones who've been decimated by outsourcing and they don't see things getting better.
Rising on the Hill: **Exists**
This dude’s study: “I'm About to End This Man's Whole Career”
Lmao exactly. Not surprising at all though. Krystal and Saagar (esp Saagar) are a little naive when it comes to how race plays a part in politics. In the south it’s very apparent
@@IAintTheDaddyMaury Its not just that they are naive. Its also that they ridicule and look down on anyone who tries to even suggest it.
@@IAintTheDaddyMaury - Race, along with other culture/identity/wedge issues play a role because the oligarchy wants them to, and that's why they constantly hype such issues in the media outlets they own, fund such discourse with their foundations and universities, etc., etc.. The one who's "a little naive" here is the guest, who's like "I wouldn't put the blame on capitalists dividing people." ( 10:33 ) LMAO!
@Dick. I don't think so, and I think they should have given better pushback.
The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to look at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all.
The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
@@Bike_Lion I’ve grew up in the south all of my life. You would imagine that blacks and whites are more close than what they actually are. The way that America was structured, enslaving a race of people for 400 years, definitely has an effect on how we interact with each other sad to say. Could the media exacerbate it? Absolutely. Did they create it? No. If the media preached about love and coming together, I can assure you that it wouldn’t happen.
You really think that a county that had legal racial turmoil for hundreds of years can fully heal and all come together after less than 100 years? That seems absurd
Of course this is true. Think about blue collar white workers who are in unions but they have voted for years for repubs who have been decimating unions for decades, now of course since the dems (diet repubs) have done this also. But historical dems have been the party of the union. Also Trump's economy was contracting before covid and he has outsourced 387k jobs in 4 years and they still voted heavily for him.
Exactly
What a party did historically, doesn't mean that's what they represent today. Your whole point is garbage.
@@franklin9400 You’d have to prove they’ve stopped then
@@franklin9400 I literally said that if you read my comment, wtf. And what the GOP is for working people really?
Did they go and talk to any first time voter who voted for trump? No , so dont expect the truth.
Obama to Trump? Easy. You STILL underestimate the HATRED of Hillary!! Get a clue.
Yep.
✔100%💩
Best Rising segment I've seen in a while.
Disagree. His analysis strikes me as deeply flawed, and I think they should have given better pushback.
The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all.
The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades!
Colson Lin Agreed!
@@Bike_Lion stop copy pasting the same rubbish under every comment. Wake up and smell the coffee. This guy was spot on and everyone knows this deep down whether they like to admit it or not.
@@debaratimukherjee2477 - Wrong. His study had obvious flaws which were apparent at first glance, and that's even taking his presentation of the data at face-value and assuming it wasn't "massaged," which it likely was.
A lot of the SJWs and neolibs in the comments section are creaming their jeans over this segment though, because he told them what they want to hear. These folks don't like talking or thinking about class issues, but *LOVE* focusing on identity politics!
Sure, people could often vote for their favorite culture warrior, but the most popular politician being Bernie Sanders is enough proof otherwise.
Great example. Bernie Sanders was able to unify workers, and it terrifies those who want to blame culture or race instead of the bosses who drive wages lower with their corrupt power.
Unfortunately, Bernie was unable to win the Democratic primary... really it wasn't even close once he and Biden were heads up. This isn't because Biden has more popular positions, it is because culturally more Americans perceive themselves ad middle of the road moderates rather than economic revolutionaries. It's sad, but the bottom line is that true economic progressive make up about 30% of the Democratic base, and probably just 10% of the overall electorate.
@@MrTheLuckyshot and boy does that fact piss them off every day. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them are too scared to start their own party out of fear of learning just how popular they really are.
@@MrTheLuckyshot " true economic progressive make up about 30% of the Democratic base" 43% voted for Sanders in 2016.
@@pauljackson1709 Yup. And a lot of those votes, turns out, were more anti-Clinton than pro-Sanders. If Bernie kept all of his voters from 2016 he would have probably won the 2020 nomination.
I wonder how such analysis would look like in another country. Maybe Americans vote based on cultural issues because Democrats and Republicans are fairly similar on economic issues.
They do overlap on a lot of issues and neither side does anything really for the white working class (and Democrats are downright hostile towards them) and Andrew Yang felt this when he was traveling across the country and saw how people acted to him when he said he was running as a Democrat. A lot of it comes down to people who are now voting Republican are doing so because they despise the Democratic Party more and Trump paid some lip service which is more than they usually get.
I’ve been waiting for this very segment! I love the show but Krystal and especially Saagar always seemed to be naive when it came to how much culture really does play in our politics. Living in the south I see first hand. Many of the working class blacks and whites have much of the same economic interests but vote different based on cultural issues.
You would imagine that many of the disenfranchised whites in the south would be all in for Medicare for all, raising the minimum wage and having better access to education but they don’t support the candidates that advocate for that 🤷🏿♂️
Why would they support programs that'll only make it worse for them?
@@lLenn2 idk how free/low cost medical care could hurt anyone except big Pharma but OK
I think you're right but the question then is can this be changed and if so, how? Because if it can't then we are all doomed to Neoliberalism's staying power.
@@BryanBMusic man I’m not even sure. It’ll definitely take some time, it’s really saddening to be honest.
I agree that Neoliberalism would rule if something doesn’t happen at least in the next 5 years
@@IAintTheDaddyMaury yeah. I'm trying to persuade as many people as I can. I know 99+ percent of the time it won't work but 1 percent can make a difference in terms of votes under an Electoral College system.
The working class doesn't support a working class party. Why would the non working class?
True. 🦞👍
You are ignoring the desperation people have. There is no working class party. Trump was basically an F you to both parties.
This guys data on social issues governing voting patterns tracks with my family experience. 2 of my brothers support Trump. The older brother originally voted Trump based on Trump’s anti-immigration policies and the promise to bring back manufacturing jobs. My younger brother supported Trump based on religious convictions. My older brother is still loyal to Trump even though he works in low-wage manufacturing and admits that Trump failed to bring back manufacturing jobs. Trump’s anti-immigration rants just land with my older brother more than Trump’s failures on manufacturing.
Also, my older brother loves, loves, loves Trump’s tough talking anti-PC act.
Can believe that.
Most of them just want someone who doesn't sound like corporate executives or PR representatives.
Can't speak for your family in particular, but I think this also has to do with the fact that there aren't any good alternatives. I mean, what economic message does Biden have to offer? When you only have opposing cultural values that's all you can vote on.
@@gosperalex2772 Yep.
@@gosperalex2772 I mean he has advocated for a 15 dollar minimum wage, the bill is passed through the house. As well as promising to raise the corporate tax rate. Is it much, no, but it’s a better economic plan than trump ever offered in 4 years
When both parties represent the same economic mindset of course all that is left to differentiate is cultural issues
The left has totally failed to stay connected and educate workers on these issues. The establishment is winning. An example: When unions first enter a work place they first face great push back from the workers themselves until they convince them of their rights. Same with progressive movements of all kinds. First they face tremendous pushback from the very groups themselves they are trying to help. Therefore one can conclude that the economic left has totally failed in staying connected to the working class, and allowed corporations to control the war. To the point that they (the working class), don’t even vote on the issues that most effect them.
@@asielnorton345 100
I'm so happy Saagar was present during this segment.
Yeah. I'm happy to see him get his entire talking point agenda smacked down because he's WRONG. Trump won because Republicans are racist. That's it.
@@Sometimes_Happiness Not because there is anything deficient about democrats/the obama administration?
@@laserbrain7774 there might be something to that, but the Party of Trump is full of racists and other bigots. There is no questioning of that.
@@Sometimes_Happiness No questioning eh? Is it because questions are impossible? or are they prohibited?
@@Sometimes_Happiness yeah, keep using the "Republicans are racist" talking point and ignore any racism coming from Democrats. That wears off over time and more and more minorities aren't buying it anymore. The only people who buy that argument these days are rich white liberals who want to feel good about themselves. In spite of people like you constantly calling Trump a racist for the past 4 years, he got more non-white support than any Republican in the past 60 years and he even lost support among white men.
It's also funny how you don't accuse people who voted for Joe Biden as racist when he has a history of being friends with segregationists , writing the '94 crime bill which disproportionally hurt blacks, beefing up the war on drugs, and making many racially insensitive comments ("I don't want my kids growing up in a racial jungle", "Barack Obama is the first mainstream articulate and clean African American", "If you can't decide whether to vote for me or Trump, then you ain't black", "Unlike the black community, the Hispanic community is diverse", etc.) Every 4 years, Democrats pretend to care about blacks just to get their vote and then they turn around and let their communities suffer. Maybe the Dems are also racist and see blacks as nothing more than political weapons to get into power?
The simple solution is to be moderate on social issues and paint your opponent as a radical.
This segment gave me life. Class consciousness is a leftist concept and always has been & you have to educate constituent's it you ever want to move politics away from the cultural stuff.
Lincoln? Roosevelt? Eisenhower?
@@Blankskeen they were conservatives with economic lefties leanings, not that complicated
Most of the working class people I know voted republican. Some of it was culture, but not all. People in general have 3-5 issues they care about. They tend to vote for the person who's positions on those issues match theirs. Those issues tend to be a mix of cultural and economic.
So where did this data come from. Super accurate polls...?
My question exactly.
In a culture that revolves around economics all cultural aspects have ties with the economical aspect, No?!?
👏
Of course everything is objectively connected, but what people vote on is their subjective analysis of the situation in light of their values.
I think the data described in the video showed that we are a diverse society in which many people value other things than pure economics first. I know many people that put faith and family first, even over the wallet issues. I know people who distrust politics and who vote on single issues: abortion, guns, etc.
And he is correct that Trump used the immigration issue to great effect. (I lived in California through the 1980's and 90's and saw how it became the #1 issue there at that time, bringing Pete Wilson to the governorship.) Immigration spreading into small towns across America became a rallying issue in the last fifteen years for those who saw their local culture changing for many reasons and didn't like it. The Parties ignored their concerns but Trump embraced them. Wouldn't be the first time in American history that immigration affected people's perceptions about their culture's future with political consequences: the 1850's and 1920's, for example.
I mean how much of an impact would abortion or trans rights have on the economy? I doubt very many peoples opinions on those two things are formed based on economics.
@@stephenbailey9969 The problem is, I don't know where that data came from. The impact on Trump warmth thing.
Do you?
I cannot find it for the life of me.
@@ahhmm5381 Haven't looked closely. Most of what I know is anecdotes and public statements by known people.
Yet another person bursting their bubble about all of this being about economics. It would be nice if they would engage with the subject in their larger analysis more often. This is not the first time this has come up but they always fall back on their tired class issues being the core of the problem.
Well to be fair to Krystal, I think the Bernie movement has far more to do with economics than culture issues.
I think it is common sense that economic policies are as important as cultural issues! However, since both political parties have the same economic policies, cultural issue is more important! Most people are smart enough to differentiate between rhetoric and actual policies
All statistics can be misleading. Statistics is the easiest science to manipulate to get whatever answers you want. It should only be added on to an argument, never be the argument.
By George! He got it!
Happy someone else isn't falling for this.
You had to bring in an expert to learn what we have known for years, Culture drive politics not class interest.
Yet the upper class uses culture issues as a facade to ram thru it's class interest.
lol Krystal desperate to wish away cultural backlash and Saagar desperate to make the entire country rally around the hillbilly economy.
If the politicians say so, it must be TRUE!
Both parties are two wings of the same bird. That bird doesn’t give a crap about the working class.
Except one party activity fights for a higher minimum wage, more people to have health insurance, and more economic relief, while the other party actively fights against those things.
@@jakobwashington5878 No, one parry claims to be for those things. But never act or follow through, when they get the power. When is the last time a democrat in power or congress gave you any of those things?
@@jakobwashington5878 Kinda like, democrats will "maybe" show up in a black american neighborhood, while running for election. But forget they even exist, until its time for election again.
@@franklin9400 $15 minimum wage passed in the house by democrats; Obamacare, no matter milquetoast I and others think it was, expanded healthcare coverage to around 20 million Americans; and the establishment republicans were fighting to get as little economic relief as possible that’s why reducing the amount of relief was considered a compromise with the GOP. Not only this they actively fight against these things, Trump said in the debate stage that he was against $15 minimum wage while Biden was for it and a month or two ago the GOP was trying to get rid of Obamacare and thus leave millions uninsured during a pandemic. I understand and to a certain extent agree with the sentiment that they both suck, but you have to be living under a rock or willfully ignorant to thing that they’re EQUALLY as bad for workers.
@@jakobwashington5878 you need to watch Jimmy dore
l love that his study blew a hole in their BS. Warms my heart
A foundation of conservativism is profits over people.
It is impossible (and dishonest) for a political movement to represent billionaires and corporate America.
And say they protect workers.
@John Truxal we hate them too lmaoo
@John Truxal 90% of the The Democratic Party belongs in the Republican Party.
Obama, Pelosi, the Clintons... They are all closet Republicans. The US has TWO right wing parties.
not surprised by the findings.
Is Richard Hannania a republican/conservative/Trumper? I follow him on Twitter and he always has a lot of criticisms of republicans but he often seems to be pushing their narratives too.
I think some of this study is true in that there are a lot of culturally conservative voters who were more motivated by Trump to get out and vote than they were before, and that the culture war ultimately wins out. But, it ignores fundamentally the amount of voters who were democrats that voted for Obama twice and then Trump. Did it actually go out and interview swing voters? Bc I fear this depended too much on people who were already favorable to republicans in the first place. Of course there’s merit to the idea that people wanted a scapegoat for their problems - that’s undeniable, but seems to be an oversimplification.
The correlation with opioid deaths and automation is easy to explain: those people are hurting economically, but they choose to project their misfortune onto cultural issues.
The first part of what you're saying directly contradicts what he said. And sure, "culture war" plays a role, but Trump wasn't talking about trade and tariffs for no reason, and immigration (just like "free trade") also functions as a method of wage-arbitrage.
@@Bike_Lion contradicts how? All I've said is common knowledge: people who are suffering are more vulnerable to reactionary thinking. And I doubt the average Trump voter is thinking about "wage-arbitrage" when Trump talks about trade, tariffs, and immigration. All they hear is that their guy is gonna stick it to the foreigners because MAGA. The few people who voted Trump primarily for economic reasons were some of the quickest to have regrets and abandon ship. His hard-core supporters are all in on the culture war and "owning the libs".
@@NinjaxPrime Both sides are focused specifically on culture wars alone. Its that way for a reason, so you don't pay attention to what they really do in Washington.
@@franklin9400 it's a shell game, sure. But just telling people that isn't going to make their cultural beliefs and prejudices suddenly disappear. Those things must be addressed or the cycle goes on.
This all seems painfully obvious 🙄
We’ve seen time and time again that industries are willing to promote politics and cultural messages even at the clear and obvious expense of profit. That should indicate culture actually matters. Look at Mexico. A bunch of their people come here to make money, but they proudly carry their culture and heritage anywhere they go disdain the thought of being proficient in English.
An underexplored correlation is 'sensibility.' Republican sensibility is more direct, concerned with money, loyalty, patriotism/gratitude. Democrat sensibility is more empathic, concerned with minority groups, speaking truth to power, idealistic.
👏👏👏👏👏
A "working class Republican (or Democrat) Party" is about as real as a "billionaire philanthropist".
@AspiretotheStars What he calls aid, yes. These measures mostly turn out to be black mail, of sort. Such as the requirement of sterilization for all women who wanted AIDS or Malaria treatment, that was instituted in some countries by the Gates Foundation.
Race/culture is the single must determinative factor for a Trump voter.I have been saying this since 2016 but Krystal and Saagar ALWAYS push this ridiculous talking point of the 'forgotten' white man. You guys greatly underestimate the power of racism in GOP politics.
Anyway, congrats to Krystal and Saagar for at least admitting that they have been wrong four more than 4 years.
That's why they were saying they didn't like the study. But, what a breath of fresh air that they, unlike other public personalities, didn't use some form of mental gymnastics to explain it away. At least they haven't yet...
Best segment in months
Disagree. His analysis strikes me as deeply flawed, and I think they should have given better pushback.
The thing is that political realignments take some time, so it's fallacious to just look here at one or two elections in isolation, without comparing to previous decades. Krystal alluded to this a bit, but didn't really follow through very aggressively at all.
The fact that his study showed so little correlation between income and voting patterns, at least among whites, is actually evidence of a *massive loss* of working class support for the Dems over the past few decades! (And that's just taking what he says about the data at face value, and assuming it wasn't "massaged." ;-))
This guy is completely and utterly WRONG.
No. There is a lot of truth. But he is 100% right
Anyone who says that concerns about immigration aren't economic concerns shouldn't be taken seriously.
Analytics can’t be ignored. At the same time, as a sports fan I can concretely conclude they aren’t totally accurate when dealing with super complex issues like human behavior. An obvious problem with his theory is over half the people don’t vote. Another problem is that if people don’t feel democrats or republicans are looking after their economic interests, why would they choose their vote on it? Another way to look at this is propaganda works. If propaganda focus’s on cultural issues, media, and the two parties focus on cultural issues, cultural issues are what people are going to vote on. It could be concluded that given our politics is focused on cultural issues, people who care deeply about cultural issues are more likely to vote, whereas those who would vote based economic issues are in the half that stays away (not saying this is the case, just putting it forward as a possibility). Not saying there is no validity to this mans study but it’s an overreaction to conclude its the final word. Just like any analytical model.
The reason you can’t tell how a person will vote based on their economics is because neither party serves the working class. It is clear what their positions are in culture. Politicians use culture to herd people in one camp or the other, so the can oppose each other, rather than come together to oppose the corporate class. I tell my fellow Blacks all the time that it’s a mistake to divorce race issues from class issues, because the former is a tool of the latter.
Number 1 predictor of how someone is going to vote is where they live. Rural areas went Trump and cities went Biden. This is consistent across the entire country. The cultural issues are huge though (mainly because neither side has offered solutions to most working class people). I knew as soon as Trump talked about illegals coming over and putting a tax on imports equivalent to the tax they put on our goods he was going to win back when nobody else thought it was going to happen. The biggest problem he had this time around was getting away from what made him win in 2016.
I would like K&S not to feel too badly about this analysis. To me, what it shows is what I have seen, which is how corporate media discourse for so many decades, particularly since the 1960s, push cultural views to dominate over economic views. People decide if someone is a liberal or conservative based upon cultural issues, which fits an agenda corporate media executives want. If the working classes and poor fighting each other, "we" meaning rich people and corporation executives win. People have definite economic positions under polling data for a decade, but they have been led to believe the only thing they get to decide when voting is about virtue signaling cultural issues. What I noticed about some people who refused to vote for Sanders is their belief that he can't win, and he can't get anything done if he won. Where did they hear that? Day after day after day after day of corporate media punditry parroting propaganda.
Sooo shows over right?
The premise of the whole show destroyed lol
I think the only way to get accurate data regarding why people voted for Trump is to go talk to those people. That's what Andrew Yang did.
Richard's results are ENTIRELY consistent with the old adage that people vote based on their pocketbooks. Since Dems and Reps do not differ substantially on economic issues, people are forced to choose based on tribal face paint.
Remember, we are basing this off exit polls ...
And?
Can you say more? Most Republicans went to the polls as they didn't trust the mail in ballots. How do you see exit polling these results?
@@theopkingdom3433 You do realize, polls take political affiliation, race, and age into account, and don't just blindly base it off one parties view right?
Is a workers party even possible? Is culture war an inexorable consequence of cultural melting pots? Are we doomed to having to append trade policy, minimum wage, healthcare, policing, public safety, public health, tax policy, etc to identity of it's to have any chance of passing?
I'm struggling with the implications of this, what does this say about the future of politics, how are we to integrate this information for use in politics?
Since when has immigration not been an economic issue?
Since they want to punish the immigrants and not the companies that hire the immigrants.
Ann Coulter and Stephen Miller had this best. Enforce E-Verify. It’s existing law settled by the courts. There’s not need for a xenophobic round up or an expensive wall. Simply enforcing existing immigration law would take care of this, but you’re right, no appetite on the hill for a solution that would actually work. Too many donors to upset.
Majority Report just implied Hanania is a white supremacist by the way. So let that sink in.
This was hard to hear for someone that shares your outlook on class being a broader and less acknowledged defining line but I love and appreciate you for challenging our prior notions
Don't be too discouraged. What this really means that in order for a working class coalition to succeed, we must do the hard work of uprooting the racial and cultural prejudice endemic in this country. And progressives have that on the agenda anyway.
I’m got a third party but just look at who donated to which party. Wall Street and billionaires all donated to the democrat party and the it was mostly ordinary citizens that donated to the Republican Party so that’s a good indicator of which party is for the working class.
In the early 90s Ross Perot was able to get a lot of support. His biggest mistake was dropping out and then returning. At one point he was at 30 %
Can you show how the modern democrat party is any different ?
College in America by and large are programming people to be progressives.
@@Timmeh_The_tyrant nah fam, it’s just educated ppl can’t listen to Rush Limbaugh, Ben Shapiro, and Steven crowder and think to themselves “wow, these people are very educated and have logical points that would help the whole of society.” I’ve been at uni for 3 yrs and there is no “liberal bias” there are just educated ppl who know history enuf to be able to see that there are many problems in our society that we still haven’t fully come to terms with
The only working class party is on Friday night after work ... if you’ve never been to a little dive bar in the Midwest on a Friday after work you ain’t livin right
Preach! 🤜
The four year college degree should not be taken out of context. My theory is that it means that younger ppl are more supportive of a more integrated and tolerant country than older Americans. I don’t believe that the “degree” is the cause as much as the age and life experience of the ppl.
People in the comments are cracking me up. Acting like their side doesn't get out to the polls because of the culture war too. Pull your heads out of your asses, people. You might both have different beliefs, but if you're acting in very similar ways, you're not all that different to a lot of us... Not a good look, no matter what side you're on.
Voters in general might not vote because of economics, but the critical voters, the ones that tipped the scales in 2016, that switched from dems to reps switched (mostly) because of Trump's economic populist rhetoric.
I feel like the study was slanted. He said it can be misleading, it seems he’s doing the same thing.
The summary to this guy's report tells Republicans they should focus on culture war issues, not helping working people. "Economic policies that seek to address
working-class concerns but hinder overall growth can alienate both voters and donors for little gain." A ton of dubious assumptions there - and the reference to donors rings an alarm bell.
a true working class party should be pro socialist policies and anti immigration, republicans can be anti immigration , they cant be socialists, dems can be socialists but not restrictionists. this is kinda conundrum, having said that progressivism + anti immigration is a election winner, my guess is josh hawley/tucker carlson will be that kinda politicians
Ultimately we have to remember that this is a study - some aspects of it are true, but some are oversimplified. It seems that this didn’t look at many economic issues.
His argument towards the end majorly faltered when Krytle questioned him on unions. Though I do strongly agree with him too. But this is part of why I find individual studies being hailed as proof highly problematic. A meta-analysis of data is much more scientific and reliable rather than one study and its indications. Can we really discount so many factors including the much predicted rise of populism post economic recession?! I do wish that more studies look into the impact of college education on politics and culture wars too.
Nice catch. Focus on the numbers (and the money)
Listen up Krystal and Saager, the nuances in this piece are sooo much more important than this actual moment. When you look back, this will probably be one of the most important pieces of your careers!
This seems dangerous. Sad.
Racism, bigotry and prejudice is alive and well, and is a major factor deciding elections; well that makes everyone feel better...
I really appreciate you all too.
America seemed to give up on the role of unions nearly 10 years ago... I think the urge to limit immigration was an attempt for people in that context to allow society post union to somehow raise its living standards and not challenge wage competitiveness to immigration. Like society needed time to catch up with how mAny people were here and that wages weren’t keeping up with cost of living expenses in rural America compared to metropolitan areas. I feel like a lot of people have amnesia with how paranoid a lot of rural people were about stagnant wages because so many immigrants were willing to work for less and I just personally do not think that’s something minimum wages can fix. There’s so many pathways to navigate this topic though. Just a thought.
it is a myth that capitalism will EVER be good for workers.... competition demands squeezing the peasants
Cultural issues are identity issues; however, it's the economic issues that are critical for survival.
Am I understanding Richard correctly - cultural messages have a greater impact on voters, opposed to economic?
Making political predictions based solely on economics remains unreliable, until you factor in how racist, authoritarian, theocratic, and psychopathic/social Darwinist they are. I can give you an entire litany of metrics to make that assessment, based on the anatomy of tribal instincts demonstrating authoritarian characteristics. You can use behavioral social science to make determinations all day long, and continue to not know what I know, or improve the human condition. And you can use evolutionary psychology to prosecute behavioral economics with greater efficacy, and never use evolutionary biology to improve the human condition.
The reason you can't tell how someone votes based on their economic status is because both democrats and republicans are THE SAME on economic issues. The only real difference between the two parties is on social issues. This is why we so desperately need the *People's Party* that will actually provide a significant choice for people on economic issues.
I'm white American middle class and don't fit any of your conclusions. I abhor both candidates and parties.
What about this nuance to that study? What if the reason most voters are influenced by cultural divisions is because they've been intentionally misled to not know what's actually at stake? What if the culture war is a result of the fact that most people have been systematically indoctrinated & robbed of quality education so as not to be able to see that cultural differences have always been used by a powerful minority of plutocrats; to keep those who are drawn to cultural divisions, fighting amongst themselves; so that those few greedy military industrialists & their other plutocrat friends could sweep up the spoils of their war?
I am not convinced by Richard Hanania’s conclusions. Cultural issues however that is defined is not as strong a predictor as economic. The middle class has eroded even more in the last 10 years as in the last 30 years. Subject Donald Trump’s constituency from the Republican Party and there is almost no Republican voters left. In this last election 95% of Republicans voted for Trump. The Republicans cannot win with 5% of the Republican vote. This is why Lincoln Project Republicans and Never Trumpers are supporting their fellow plutocrats in the Democrat Party.
Richard if absolutely right. Culture propelled Trump
Often the people that are good at collecting data, are crappy at analyzing it.
Neither side is doing anything for the economic issues affecting the working class, so of course, economic issues don't affect the choice of candidates or party affiliation of workers either.
Identity politics and Economic justice are inextricably linked. Pretending they are not is maddening
Anyone really all the shocked after 40 years of culture issues.
I don’t trust this guy
But how could you expect economics to be the driver of electoral politics when every issue has been to reduced to a culture war? Saying culture drives voting behaviour makes perfect sense given that people have given up on the political process being able to change their material conditions. That’s a far cry from saying that economics is not determinative of political attitudes more generally. Any serious study of say, the white working class has to acknowledge the overwhelming role that social and economic decline plays in people’s political outlooks. The fact that most of these people don’t even vote shows you how limited this “culture is king” argument is.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm in the South, born and raised. I can tell you right now that the Trump/Hillary election persuaded me that reality was different than I previously believed. I don't know every single soul in the South, but over and over people pointed to, yes, the immigration issue, but it was always about economics. Most want a wall, because they believe that immigrants are the reason pay is low and jobs hard to find. Not a single politician in my memory has run a campaign educating them otherwise, because the politicians will not point out that their corporate owners are the real problem. The politicians and media define the terms of the election. I also heard that Trump was going to bring back jobs. I heard from Kentucky relatives that Hillary hated coal -- their only livelihood. People had picked up the idea that NAFTA and TARP and trade agreements were devastating their lives. Doesn't mean they hate the Chinese. I think this guy is leaving out a whole lot of context when he analyses his numbers.
Saager trying so hard to not say what we all have been saying. Racism played a part in trumps win. Denial is not a good thing
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Google just keeps on fishing and fishing and fishing
Paper > Rock > Scissors > Paper
Clinton > Biden > Trump > Clinton
"Why is it people in other countries vote their class interests and Americans don't?"
Because of RACE, Krystal. It's always been because of race. For like 150 years. Ever since the Reconstruction era cultural/race issues have trumped class in politics.
lol, right, lets keep it real, jus sayin
@@d3mist0clesgee12 bruh you have no idea how much it kills me that Krystal and Saagar willfully ignore this fact
For you because it's your #1 concern. The rest of us have moved on.
@@Lobsterwithinternet cool story bro
@@NinjaxPrime I know. It's great. 😄
It will remain impossible to have a useful discussion about immigration if the conversation is predicated on the presumption that anyone not wanting open borders is both a racist and that it is substantially or entirely that putative racism which drives their outlook on immigration. That's how you wind up with any chance of either discussion or understanding the subject strangling itself in the cradle.
They don’t get how other countries handle immigration. Mexicans certainly don’t want Guatemalans and Hondurans coming into Mexico. The Dutch don’t want even other white people coming in. The Japanese certainly don’t want even other Asians coming in. Diverse countries like India were actually once even more diverse until they couldn’t handle it and shed blood to split the country up. That’s how we got Pakistan.
When will Rising have Ted Cruz on the show?
It's CRUCIALLY important to note that the distinction this guy attempts to make at the end, between some implied *vague* capitalist tactical efforts to thwart class solidarity and the "mere" effects of culture experienced through this "war" of ours, are in fact the same thing. American capitalist culture as a whole whether it's anti-immigration or woke-pan-everythingism only has the purpose of thwarting class solidarity and both sides have been unmistakably designed and established by rich plutocrats solely for their own benefit.
Right populism is a sham though. Just take Saagar. Whatever good may come from his favored policies, he wants to divert those gains to either a new cold war with China or consumerism and gdp growth. He doesn't want the plutocracy to really have to give up anything substantial, just look at how utterly terrified he was by a little looting and capital destruction if you want proof. The important thing here being it's not enough for people to know that right populism is a sham, but rather why it is so.
The thing is, both major political parties represent the rich and upper middle class. Those are the people who tend to vote the most. Mainly because they CAN take time off work to vote, but also because they feel like they feel like they have more to lose, and they give political donations to try and sway policy for causes they believe in. There is no real party of the working class. But, if someone could assemble such a party, it would be extremely powerful
This isn't surprising. We need more class consciousness and we need to convince people to stop scapegoating immigrants/"welfare queens" instead of the corporations that make these bad conditions for working families. Doing that persuasion is going to take a long time.
This kid sounds professional, but he's doing Corporations bidding in what he says. Like Crystal, I see through his BS!
Amazing segment.Didn't know the guy i'll follow him from now on