I am deeply grateful, that you make content like this available to also the people who could not attend such an event. I was deeply moved to see how less it needs to feel the connection that each of one would have, if not too occupied with holding back and try to please or hide. We are so scared of each other and Paul's work shows very clearly how important and healing real connections are. Thank you so much for this discussion! Greetings from Switzerland
Going by the the adverse comments I would call this revolutionary work! Thank you Esther for your approach and the creative way in which you tackle this vital topic!
@Last Christmas I gave u my Fart What Nicholas is talking about is resistance. How much resistance was met when people fought racism to allow black people to sit at the front of the bus? When people fought misogyny to allow women to have the same opportunities as men? It's not a coincidence that the most homophobic men, especially politicians, end up being closet gays. Resistance.
Ik vind het posten van deze waardevolle content fantastisch. Ik kan mij voorstellen dat het nogal ongemakkelijk kan voelen om er werkelijk in mee te gaan voor mannen. Ineens wordt de kwetsbaarheid zichtbaar van wat mannen denken dat mannelijkheid is. Dankjewel en ik hoop nog veel meer posts van sessions live te mogen zien. Thanks Esther!
Eventhough i'm Swiss our languages are kind of close enough to understand. Yes, i hope to see more like this too. I don't understand the negative comments at all!!!
To those who discount negative comments in the threads, can you please entertain the idea that those comments are from ACTUALLY coming here to watch this video and consider its value? Because I disagree doesn't mean I'm a homophobe or antithetical to the overall attempt that this video/conference is about, just that I disagree with the process and assumptions made by this video. Big difference, and please do reflect on the bullying behavior which expects that disagreement is wrong or expressing disagreement proves (somehow) that Paul's assertions or methods are correct ones.
The therapist merely mentions his sexuality in a context that it is relevant, and you perceiving that as "wearing it as a badge of honor" ... Don't you think that might be why ppl in the comments find you to be... a tinge weird around gay ppl? Idk just my thoughts
This was really beautiful, thanks for sharing. (Edit: I'm really confused by the other comments, that was a genuine and rare display of masculine vulnerability and to me an interesting technique that I had not seen before.. I'm intrigued by the negative comments.. what were you expecting in order for this video to be a disappointment? It reminded me of Caveh Zahedi's "Holy Moment" in Richard Linklater's Waking life)
K. DeMarco The negative comments I find interesting because I've worked in adult education. The first two primary tenants of andragogy, or adult learning, are that 1) adults must wish to learn, with an inner and excited motivation to develop a new skill and 2) they will only learn what they feel they need to learn. Those with negative comments seem to have felt they don't need to learn what has been offered in these sessions. That does not mean the sessions were ineffective, only that they were not relevant to those particular people's interests. And one comment from Alcoholics Anonymous because of the judgmental tone of these negative comments: "Expectations are premeditated resentments." Setting aside expectations does allow us to learn the things we were not consciously looking to find.
This would be great work for people in intimate relationships who are stuck, in trouble, or deciding whether to stay together. I think it's totally wasted on people who are strangers.
The context of these 'Sessions' is that they're set up for clinicians. The point of what you saw was a demonstration of the technique for clinical use between actual clients. Not a universal suggestion that this is time well spent between strangers.
How about two people in conflict? Like from two parties that are at war....Besides nonviolent communication this seems to be a great way to learn listening to each other in a way that nourishes understanding.
@DarthYuYevon that is the exact vibe I get from the 'session' as well. Especially when he uses terms like "connect with the other" when that is such an assumed possibly that is easily exposed as inferred nonsense once people really exchange ideas and especially when couples (who presumably have some 'connection') prove how distinctly different we all are when they fight/argue/divorce. I also find the comment section so prejudiced in that any comment that doesn't seem to fit the narrative of the 'openly gay' therapist is discounted as homophobic (please ask why it was so important for him to wear that title as a badge of honor). Very disappointed in the lack of willingness to question the leadership and authority in this video by those who are happy to discredit dissenting opinion.
@@mattplaydrum I bet you are. Probably think you can be real empathetic to my experiences with my shame right? Maybe enough that I'd let you touch me to prove what progress we've made and how newly enlightened I've become to 'let you in'?? All the while explaining how closed off and unwilling to explore I am to not do your bidding. What's your experience with shame? Being superior by getting over the need for it or not having it at all? That's the vibe I get by your reply.
So two men who attend a conference where there is an expectation of questioning ones concepts of reality is where we see two men engage in behavior more attributable to female interaction (your eyes are so beautiful), coaxed by the authority of a professed gay man..... with backstory superceding such interaction. And this convoluted exchange between two 'masculine' men is proffered up as how to understand men and create interactive progress (by ...again... a badge-wearing identitarian gay man). Got it. Really helping women to understand men here, Esther, or again molding men to become women, by a gay ally no less.
You really think this is "molding men into women"? I'm sure encouraging to try out a traditionally non-masculine method of communication won't effect them to the level of what you're describing, they'll just incorporate parts of it in their lives if they find it affective, and they won't if they don't.
It's a perfect experiment! To fit into proper human science would be useful to replace a word "man" (or "woman") with a non-sexual word such as "person". Further step might be showing only eyes and offering to guess sex of a person.
Seriously. We are hear to learn something but this was simply mundane and trite. The dude in the story respected the leg crosser because he stood up for himself. Bullying, as primal and brutal as it is, is so often about the weak and strong arranging themselves into some sort of hierarchy. "Standing up to bullies" - a story so often cherished in our culture in its myriad forms - is simply passing the test. "Building a bridge" is a separate topic altogether, way more complex. I wish people that loathe, fear and/or are contemptuous of masculinity would either be honest about their relationship with it or stop professing to have anything to offer us on it beyond the trivial, inaccurate and superficial. A soufflé of feelgood meaningless abstract metaphors triggering dopamine isn't meaningful - clinically, therapeutically or anything else. Lets be honest, the intention of this guy was simply to take two males who are statistically more than likely straight to act out an idealised gay encounter. Was it motivated by a desire to subvert heterosexual normative masculinity? I don't know. Maybe. Do we learn anything useful about masculinity in the process? Doubtful.
I actually found it to be really useful. It made me think about shame in my own life and how it affects my interactions with other people. I also don't understand why you consider this to be an idealized gay interaction. What do you feel when you look into the eyes of your platonic friends?
@@mattplaydrum I'm fine. Glad you found it useful. I was tempted to take another look after two years yo see if I felt any different but it's a bit long and what I did watch didn't change anything. We might agree that shame has a useful purpose in life but like anger it's important to heed what it's telling you and don't hang on to it. Like anger it's easy to indulge but shame will do little for your life if you don't use it to uncover a deeper truth - have you been cowardly? Did you compromise your own standards? Have you been lazy -that kind of thing. Then take the action you know you should and let the shame go. This one of the essences of masculinity - taking action. "What do you feel when you look into the eyes of your platonic friends?" Love. It's no more complicated than that. I get the sense you're fishing for something but not sure what your point is? Do you want to elucidate?
@@djanitatiana I agree with so much of what you are saying about being curious about shame and using it to dig deeper! Well said! I am not fishing for anything in particular, just genuinely curious about an internet stranger who has a different perspective than me on a video I like I guess 🤷♂️ Personally, when I look into my friend's eyes, I feel love but also curiosity. I wonder what they are thinking and how their life and perspective are similar and different to mine. Sometimes I feel a little jealousy if I think they are better looking than me haha! Oftentimes I feel uncomfortable and awkward though and that is something I am curious about.
@@mattplaydrum Thanks for the thoughtful answer Matt, apologies for the default salt, obviously you are a good faith commenter. Eye's are an enormous distillation of the vast complexity of our myriad emotions, are they not? We can feel so much complexity when we make eye contact, empathy (as you so elegantly described), anxiety, connection but maybe also mistrust, antipathy, resentment, say, but the interesting thing is that it switches on your "feeling" trigger. Which is kind of amazing isn't it? Someone else's eyes can be the window into your OWN soul, lol. So the "distillation" part is that the thing ou see first may well be a little Rorschach test into what's on your mind. Is it their looks? Perhaps you're thinking about your status to potential partners? Do you see defensiveness in the other? Perhaps your thinking about your own need to connect? Not saying this is the case but it can be useful tool if you're feeling confusion and trying to straighten things out a bit. But I think gazing into someone else's eyes is always going to be a moment of potential hazard - even your special others still involves the moment of exposing your soft underbelly.
I've unfortunately lost a lot of respect for Perel by being associated to this 'therapist' peddling his personal sexuality and experience as legitimate therapy.
I will still assess Esther or her own merits by what I find agreeable, but I find Paul's methodology and identity politics deplorable and disingenuous.
I am deeply grateful, that you make content like this available to also the people who could not attend such an event. I was deeply moved to see how less it needs to feel the connection that each of one would have, if not too occupied with holding back and try to please or hide. We are so scared of each other and Paul's work shows very clearly how important and healing real connections are. Thank you so much for this discussion! Greetings from Switzerland
Going by the the adverse comments I would call this revolutionary work! Thank you Esther for your approach and the creative way in which you tackle this vital topic!
@Last Christmas I gave u my Fart What Nicholas is talking about is resistance. How much resistance was met when people fought racism to allow black people to sit at the front of the bus? When people fought misogyny to allow women to have the same opportunities as men? It's not a coincidence that the most homophobic men, especially politicians, end up being closet gays. Resistance.
Ik vind het posten van deze waardevolle content fantastisch. Ik kan mij voorstellen dat het nogal ongemakkelijk kan voelen om er werkelijk in mee te gaan voor mannen. Ineens wordt de kwetsbaarheid zichtbaar van wat mannen denken dat mannelijkheid is. Dankjewel en ik hoop nog veel meer posts van sessions live te mogen zien. Thanks Esther!
Eventhough i'm Swiss our languages are kind of close enough to understand. Yes, i hope to see more like this too. I don't understand the negative comments at all!!!
To those who discount negative comments in the threads, can you please entertain the idea that those comments are from ACTUALLY coming here to watch this video and consider its value? Because I disagree doesn't mean I'm a homophobe or antithetical to the overall attempt that this video/conference is about, just that I disagree with the process and assumptions made by this video.
Big difference, and please do reflect on the bullying behavior which expects that disagreement is wrong or expressing disagreement proves (somehow) that Paul's assertions or methods are correct ones.
The therapist merely mentions his sexuality in a context that it is relevant, and you perceiving that as "wearing it as a badge of honor" ... Don't you think that might be why ppl in the comments find you to be... a tinge weird around gay ppl? Idk just my thoughts
This was really beautiful, thanks for sharing.
(Edit: I'm really confused by the other comments, that was a genuine and rare display of masculine vulnerability and to me an interesting technique that I had not seen before.. I'm intrigued by the negative comments.. what were you expecting in order for this video to be a disappointment? It reminded me of Caveh Zahedi's "Holy Moment" in Richard Linklater's Waking life)
K. DeMarco
The negative comments I find interesting because I've worked in adult education. The first two primary tenants of andragogy, or adult learning, are that 1) adults must wish to learn, with an inner and excited motivation to develop a new skill and 2) they will only learn what they feel they need to learn. Those with negative comments seem to have felt they don't need to learn what has been offered in these sessions. That does not mean the sessions were ineffective, only that they were not relevant to those particular people's interests.
And one comment from Alcoholics Anonymous because of the judgmental tone of these negative comments: "Expectations are premeditated resentments." Setting aside expectations does allow us to learn the things we were not consciously looking to find.
This would be great work for people in intimate relationships who are stuck, in trouble, or deciding whether to stay together. I think it's totally wasted on people who are strangers.
The context of these 'Sessions' is that they're set up for clinicians. The point of what you saw was a demonstration of the technique for clinical use between actual clients. Not a universal suggestion that this is time well spent between strangers.
How about two people in conflict? Like from two parties that are at war....Besides nonviolent communication this seems to be a great way to learn listening to each other in a way that nourishes understanding.
@DarthYuYevon that is the exact vibe I get from the 'session' as well. Especially when he uses terms like "connect with the other" when that is such an assumed possibly that is easily exposed as inferred nonsense once people really exchange ideas and especially when couples (who presumably have some 'connection') prove how distinctly different we all are when they fight/argue/divorce. I also find the comment section so prejudiced in that any comment that doesn't seem to fit the narrative of the 'openly gay' therapist is discounted as homophobic (please ask why it was so important for him to wear that title as a badge of honor).
Very disappointed in the lack of willingness to question the leadership and authority in this video by those who are happy to discredit dissenting opinion.
@@JH-ji6cj I'm sorry that you are feeling upset. I wonder what your experiences with shame have been?
@@mattplaydrum I bet you are. Probably think you can be real empathetic to my experiences with my shame right? Maybe enough that I'd let you touch me to prove what progress we've made and how newly enlightened I've become to 'let you in'?? All the while explaining how closed off and unwilling to explore I am to not do your bidding.
What's your experience with shame? Being superior by getting over the need for it or not having it at all? That's the vibe I get by your reply.
So two men who attend a conference where there is an expectation of questioning ones concepts of reality is where we see two men engage in behavior more attributable to female interaction (your eyes are so beautiful), coaxed by the authority of a professed gay man..... with backstory superceding such interaction. And this convoluted exchange between two 'masculine' men is proffered up as how to understand men and create interactive progress (by ...again... a badge-wearing identitarian gay man).
Got it. Really helping women to understand men here, Esther, or again molding men to become women, by a gay ally no less.
Did you miss Terry Real's opening remarks before hearing this talk?
Your comments can be selected out to be studied in an anthropology class. What is man according to one man.
You really think this is "molding men into women"? I'm sure encouraging to try out a traditionally non-masculine method of communication won't effect them to the level of what you're describing, they'll just incorporate parts of it in their lives if they find it affective, and they won't if they don't.
It's a perfect experiment! To fit into proper human science would be useful to replace a word "man" (or "woman") with a non-sexual word such as "person".
Further step might be showing only eyes and offering to guess sex of a person.
This was beautiful!!!
The 2 men..this is called raw processing? Correct?
Can you imagine paying $400 for something like this?
yep
Yes
La mujer no nace, se hace (S. de Beauvoir). El hombre no nace, se hace (P.Browde). 😊❤️
omg my guts churn even from here
Seriously. We are hear to learn something but this was simply mundane and trite. The dude in the story respected the leg crosser because he stood up for himself. Bullying, as primal and brutal as it is, is so often about the weak and strong arranging themselves into some sort of hierarchy. "Standing up to bullies" - a story so often cherished in our culture in its myriad forms - is simply passing the test. "Building a bridge" is a separate topic altogether, way more complex.
I wish people that loathe, fear and/or are contemptuous of masculinity would either be honest about their relationship with it or stop professing to have anything to offer us on it beyond the trivial, inaccurate and superficial.
A soufflé of feelgood meaningless abstract metaphors triggering dopamine isn't meaningful - clinically, therapeutically or anything else. Lets be honest, the intention of this guy was simply to take two males who are statistically more than likely straight to act out an idealised gay encounter. Was it motivated by a desire to subvert heterosexual normative masculinity?
I don't know. Maybe. Do we learn anything useful about masculinity in the process? Doubtful.
I'm sorry that you are frustrated friend. I hope that you find the answers that you are looking for.
I actually found it to be really useful. It made me think about shame in my own life and how it affects my interactions with other people. I also don't understand why you consider this to be an idealized gay interaction. What do you feel when you look into the eyes of your platonic friends?
@@mattplaydrum I'm fine. Glad you found it useful. I was tempted to take another look after two years yo see if I felt any different but it's a bit long and what I did watch didn't change anything.
We might agree that shame has a useful purpose in life but like anger it's important to heed what it's telling you and don't hang on to it. Like anger it's easy to indulge but shame will do little for your life if you don't use it to uncover a deeper truth - have you been cowardly? Did you compromise your own standards? Have you been lazy -that kind of thing. Then take the action you know you should and let the shame go. This one of the essences of masculinity - taking action.
"What do you feel when you look into the eyes of your platonic friends?" Love. It's no more complicated than that. I get the sense you're fishing for something but not sure what your point is? Do you want to elucidate?
@@djanitatiana I agree with so much of what you are saying about being curious about shame and using it to dig deeper! Well said!
I am not fishing for anything in particular, just genuinely curious about an internet stranger who has a different perspective than me on a video I like I guess 🤷♂️
Personally, when I look into my friend's eyes, I feel love but also curiosity. I wonder what they are thinking and how their life and perspective are similar and different to mine. Sometimes I feel a little jealousy if I think they are better looking than me haha! Oftentimes I feel uncomfortable and awkward though and that is something I am curious about.
@@mattplaydrum Thanks for the thoughtful answer Matt, apologies for the default salt, obviously you are a good faith commenter.
Eye's are an enormous distillation of the vast complexity of our myriad emotions, are they not? We can feel so much complexity when we make eye contact, empathy (as you so elegantly described), anxiety, connection but maybe also mistrust, antipathy, resentment, say, but the interesting thing is that it switches on your "feeling" trigger. Which is kind of amazing isn't it? Someone else's eyes can be the window into your OWN soul, lol.
So the "distillation" part is that the thing ou see first may well be a little Rorschach test into what's on your mind. Is it their looks? Perhaps you're thinking about your status to potential partners? Do you see defensiveness in the other? Perhaps your thinking about your own need to connect? Not saying this is the case but it can be useful tool if you're feeling confusion and trying to straighten things out a bit.
But I think gazing into someone else's eyes is always going to be a moment of potential hazard - even your special others still involves the moment of exposing your soft underbelly.
Not sure but the guy on the left came across as guy if super feminine. Not sure how this would relate to masculine men ie MEN
I've unfortunately lost a lot of respect for Perel by being associated to this 'therapist' peddling his personal sexuality and experience as legitimate therapy.
I will still assess Esther or her own merits by what I find agreeable, but I find Paul's methodology and identity politics deplorable and disingenuous.
100% so weird and it's like he's setting up a threeway . sucking weird. It is silly with strangers. better with people who know eachother.
Absolute rubbish. paaaa-leeeese.
first 6 min literally the most boring shit I have ever heard. I want that part of my life back. WTF.
am now listening in 1.5 speed and it is much more bearable.
30:00 in this was really weird. Definitely better once sped up.