The fringiest of the fringe rules is one hidden in plain sight. Objective-Secured probably doesn't work the way you think it does. Every single person I've played with seems to think that if you both have objective secured models on an objective, the one with more objective secured models controls the objective. Look closely at the rules. It doesn't actually say that. Rather, if you have 1 objective secured model and 4 non-objective secured models, and they have 4 objective secured models. YOU ACTUALLY CONTROL THE OBJECTIVE. Look at the rules "If an enemy model within range of an objective marker also has this ability (or a similar ability), then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal." You have the most models.
yhea, a lot of people treat it as "ignore non Obsec models when determining control", but as you say it isnt, and Obsec cancels out other players obsec.
I think this is a case of people not fully reading the paragraph, and just the bullet. It was very clear to me as written( even if it was wordy) they could have just stated that opposing ob-sec cancels out. the bullet points are great; but as seen here, nuance in a rule can be lost.
I used it just the other day against my friend. Managed to cut down his Succubus with 1 wound left that tried to fall back before my primaris captain could fight back. The captain even refunded the command point!
This is why datacards matter to keep around. No matter if it is Stratagems, Psychic powers, Warlord Traits or just even base rules for the factions. Having these cards on the "deep-strike" table is so useful.
Cut Them Down has a special place in my heart 'cause I had a very similar situation as the one described. My Ork Warboss grabbed my opponent's Night Lord Jump Captain (left at one wound) and dragged him down killing him as he tried to fall back.
This is good. 9th ed has so many conditional rules that can change the game, but few remember them. I don't think I've seen even batrep channels use many of these.
@@litenyte2405 No, engagement range is 1", two ranks is "eligible to fight", which includes models in engagement range and models in 0.5" inch from models in engagement range
@@gi1dor That is actually incorrect. to quote the core rules (free to download) on page 4: "While two enemy models are within Engagement Range of each other, those models’ units are also within Engagement Range of each other." So the _entire_unit_ gets to attack during disengage if you want to state "eligible to fight" isn't accounted for for melee weapons because its not technically the fight phase (that seems like some hard rules lawyering, but if you want to give my 20+ stealers some free dice rolls fine by me). Read it yourself here: www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Lw4o3USx1R8sU7cQ.pdf
This gave me an idea, actually. Defensible terrain might be a great tactic for death guard, especially mortarion's chosen sons with flamer weapons. You can dig in and wait for aggressive armies to charge you and overwatch with auto-hitting dmg 2 weapons with Plague Brewers and bolters. That could be potentially brutal against jump pack troops.
Wouldn't the auto-hitting property of Flamers make the Defensible portion of the terrain pointless? Since you can't miss, the accuracy increase makes no difference as far as I know.
@@cesarfortson8245 no, you're right. I was thinking about 10 plague marines with two spewers, a Belcher and bolters. It would help the 7 or 8 bolters in the squad hit on 5's. That might really stack up the wounds.
I play Crimson Fists. One of my favourite memories was using the stratagem to allow EVERY model in a unit to throw grenades. My opponent got a bit cocky with his crimson hunter, next to 10 intercessors. The look on his face when INTERCESSORS brought it down with 10 krak grenades was priceless.
@@arctifire5709 Lol no, you throw on average 35 grenades on 10d6, hitting on 4+ gives you average 17,5 hits, of those 17,5 hits you wound on 2+ for an average of 14,583 wounds. The only Daemon Primarchs are Mortarion and Magnus, both have a 4++ meaning they make on average 7,29 saves and take 7.29 damage. Both have 18 wounds and you don't even bracket them... Also with Mortarion's 5+++ he only takes on average 4,85 wounds and if Magnus has gotten his psychic spell off to get a 3++ he only takes on average 4,86 damage. Furthermore they don't autowound Infantry, a 2+ to wound always counts as a wound unless the target is a vehicle or titanic unit, big difference.
I can't even tell what units can 'shrug off wounds' (and how that works), let alone remember all these other rules XD But this video helps a lot. Thanks for the reminder.
The inverse to remembering Heroic Interventions is making sure when you fall back from a melee character, you fall back more than 3”. My best example is my opponent fell back their 3 Crisis Suits away from my Lord of Contagion, but wanted to still contest the objective so they didn’t fall back far. Unfortunately for him nothing was in a position to shoot my Lord of Contagion, so I got a free Heroic Intervention off on the Crisis Suits.
As an extension of the point about Grenades, Astra Militarum specifically have the Grenadiers stratagem, allowing them for 1 CP to fire with up to ten grenades, not just one. Granted, might not be the best use of a CP, but if you're in a situation where at least ten Infantry, or better yet Conscripts, are within 6" of the enemy during the shooting phase, it could massively swing the damage in your favor. Especially if the enemy unit has at least 6 models.
10 d6 S3 shots is devastating to even terminators. Better yet. Veterans, if you could use multiple stratagems (unfortunately you can’t) that could be 10 d6 S3 Ap-1 shots hitting on 3+. For 2 cp.
Cut them down saved my bacon once and nearly did amazingly in another. I nearly killed a respawned Farseer on Jetbike but his fnp saved the two mortal wounds I caused (Crusade artifact or ghosthelm, I think). In another I had around 40 hormagants and two carnifexes around a Baneblade that decided to fall back so I couldn't destroy the damn thing. I rolled hot and caused 11 mortal wounds, killing the Baneblade as the swarming gaunts ripped a hatch open and butchered the crew. The rule allows models from multiple units to roll after all.
Tabletop Tactics recently posted a battle report where a unit of Crisis Battlesuits used Cut Them Down to finish off a biker Chaplain that has just killed the Tau Commander.
Would 'Cut Them Down' be useful against Necrons that can fallback, shoot, then charge and attack in the same turn with that pesky ability if they're in proximity to the HQ (forget which ones allows it)
What do you think of astrates granade launchers for intercessors? They are cheap way to add pich to a unit (they count as assault so you can still fire the rifle) expecially against hordes and can make the unit a moderate treath against light vehicles (with 2 krak granades basically). Of could also be one of the few good use for the “combat squad” rule, you could get a team with 2 GL. I tend to like them but maybe i’m missing something because no one ever birngs them.
@@peterandjunko yeah ofc if you can get an other unit you cut them out but, it's still a worthy upgrade imo (expecially for something like white scars...5 intercessors with ABR + GL in assault doctrine can be a truly powerful litte unit)
@@lolply54 I hear u. I play deathwatch so it’s not as good for my hellblaster kill team as the intercessors are basically ablative wounds. The grenade launcher is a little bonus if I can squeeze it in the list.
Speaking of firing pistols and grenades early- aren't you supposed to declare all your shots before rolling? Doesn't make much difference then- you fired your grenade at a unit, didn't do anything, you can't change your allocated shots.
Im my last game, I used 'cut them down' to actually finish the enemy warlord, when he fell back from my primaris captain. Got really lucky on my single d6!
You mention scarabs as having some special ability as regards heroic intervention… I can’t see the rule you are referring to, they aren’t a character. Is there some rare scarab stratagem I am unaware of?
I watch a lot of battle reports and I have heard people speak very highly of the power of a boosted overwatch and then I see the same people completely ignore Hold Steady. It's seemed kinda ironic to me. I don't play myself but with all the combat armies that are shredding people these days I'm really surprised by the lack of flamers for the soul purpose of over watch. Why do people not use them? Is it just too easy to turn off overwatch by charging with a different units first or do flamers not have high enough strength or AP to really be of any significant use?
@@legomacinnisinc mostly with my tac squads. I've found it discourages just straight-up bullying them, what with their whopping one attack at base. Plus, there's a strat that allows sons of Vulkan to flame into melee if they get the opportunity. Basically turns them into pistols. Provided the squad doesn't get wiped during the charge, that is😉
4 forgetten rules of 40k Me: 1.5 years out of practice due to reasons and barely can remember the basics, let alone knowing any of the 9th ed stuff. Plus side i play Tau so i don't have to worry about half the game anyway.
Ha ha my opponent always agrees befor the battle that ruins are defensible then when i say my guys are in deffencible terrain its always we don't play that you cannot do that you cannot overwatch very sore loser
Sorry to hear that. Those kinds of people are not fun to play against. If he really didn't want you to use Overwatch he should just play genestealer cult. They have a strategem that outright stops overwatch from happening for a turn.
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The fringiest of the fringe rules is one hidden in plain sight.
Objective-Secured probably doesn't work the way you think it does.
Every single person I've played with seems to think that if you both have objective secured models on an objective, the one with more objective secured models controls the objective.
Look closely at the rules. It doesn't actually say that.
Rather, if you have 1 objective secured model and 4 non-objective secured models, and they have 4 objective secured models. YOU ACTUALLY CONTROL THE OBJECTIVE.
Look at the rules "If an enemy model within range of an objective marker also has this ability (or a similar ability), then the objective marker is controlled by the player who has the most models within range of that objective marker as normal."
You have the most models.
yhea, a lot of people treat it as "ignore non Obsec models when determining control", but as you say it isnt, and Obsec cancels out other players obsec.
I think this is a case of people not fully reading the paragraph, and just the bullet. It was very clear to me as written( even if it was wordy) they could have just stated that opposing ob-sec cancels out. the bullet points are great; but as seen here, nuance in a rule can be lost.
I had somebody say if both players had objective secured, then whoever's turn it was controlled the objective
@@DerRotSpassvogel that person was wrong. Really wrong lmao
This is 'basic' level 40K 😆
Ork boyz with shootas holding steady, on anyone brazen enough to charge into orks.
"Our overwatch is as good as our base shooting boys!"
I had legitimately forgotten that cut them down existed.
I used it just the other day against my friend. Managed to cut down his Succubus with 1 wound left that tried to fall back before my primaris captain could fight back. The captain even refunded the command point!
It’s a disgusting strat in the right situation. Punishes the hell out of a badly positioned opponent.
@@litenyte2405 Did the succubus fall back or consolidate out of engagement range? If it was the second one you cant use cut them down
@@jkewl360 It was during the fight phase so I think I made a mistake there. Oops!
I no longer do tables without alot of terrain. We have a whole terrain rules section and I feel it really helps especially vs 1st turn advantage
This is why datacards matter to keep around. No matter if it is Stratagems, Psychic powers, Warlord Traits or just even base rules for the factions. Having these cards on the "deep-strike" table is so useful.
Cut Them Down has a special place in my heart 'cause I had a very similar situation as the one described. My Ork Warboss grabbed my opponent's Night Lord Jump Captain (left at one wound) and dragged him down killing him as he tried to fall back.
As a new 9th player this is great, would love for this to be a series
As a veteran of 7th ed. I hope that a series like this doesn’t become necessary.
This is good. 9th ed has so many conditional rules that can change the game, but few remember them. I don't think I've seen even batrep channels use many of these.
Mental bloat is ridiculous in 40k
....echoes from 6/7th ed
thanks for clearing that up I was under the impression that Set to defend was an action so that really helps
I love cut-them-down. It relieves the supreme annoyance of getting into engagement range just to have the enemy fallback and shoot again.
Cut them down is the bane of my ultramarines
As ultramarine, I’m glad that not a lot of people remember this rule and I got no intention of reminding it to them)
*laughs in Blood Angel*
My imperial knights agree...
Cut them down is hilarious when people try to fall back from conscripts
Remember it's just engagement range, not the whole unit.
@@leegarner4592 I'm fully aware. It's still the most reliable form of damage output that conscripts have lmao
@@leegarner4592 Isn't engagement range the first two ranks still? That can be quite a lot of dice to get mortal wounds on.
@@litenyte2405 No, engagement range is 1", two ranks is "eligible to fight", which includes models in engagement range and models in 0.5" inch from models in engagement range
@@gi1dor That is actually incorrect. to quote the core rules (free to download) on page 4:
"While two enemy models are within Engagement Range of each other, those models’ units are also within Engagement Range of each other."
So the _entire_unit_ gets to attack during disengage if you want to state "eligible to fight" isn't accounted for for melee weapons because its not technically the fight phase (that seems like some hard rules lawyering, but if you want to give my 20+ stealers some free dice rolls fine by me).
Read it yourself here: www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Lw4o3USx1R8sU7cQ.pdf
For having tried out Agripinaa FW in admech, defensible is underappreciated.
This gave me an idea, actually. Defensible terrain might be a great tactic for death guard, especially mortarion's chosen sons with flamer weapons. You can dig in and wait for aggressive armies to charge you and overwatch with auto-hitting dmg 2 weapons with Plague Brewers and bolters. That could be potentially brutal against jump pack troops.
Wouldn't the auto-hitting property of Flamers make the Defensible portion of the terrain pointless? Since you can't miss, the accuracy increase makes no difference as far as I know.
@@cesarfortson8245 no, you're right. I was thinking about 10 plague marines with two spewers, a Belcher and bolters. It would help the 7 or 8 bolters in the squad hit on 5's. That might really stack up the wounds.
Many forget about using krak grenades. There is NO reason to shoot bolt pistol if you are in grenade range.
I play Crimson Fists. One of my favourite memories was using the stratagem to allow EVERY model in a unit to throw grenades. My opponent got a bit cocky with his crimson hunter, next to 10 intercessors. The look on his face when INTERCESSORS brought it down with 10 krak grenades was priceless.
@@heraissilly when I’m playing as Crimson Fists, I like to try to obliterate my own army with a defence missile.
@@heraissilly krieg engineers are even funnier, they can lob 10 gas bombs, which autowound infantry. Daemon primarch? Dead in 1 turn.
@@arctifire5709 Lol no, you throw on average 35 grenades on 10d6, hitting on 4+ gives you average 17,5 hits, of those 17,5 hits you wound on 2+ for an average of 14,583 wounds. The only Daemon Primarchs are Mortarion and Magnus, both have a 4++ meaning they make on average 7,29 saves and take 7.29 damage. Both have 18 wounds and you don't even bracket them...
Also with Mortarion's 5+++ he only takes on average 4,85 wounds and if Magnus has gotten his psychic spell off to get a 3++ he only takes on average 4,86 damage.
Furthermore they don't autowound Infantry, a 2+ to wound always counts as a wound unless the target is a vehicle or titanic unit, big difference.
@@antonlukkarinen2648 I read that as 14 thousand 583 not 14.583 😂
Overwatch +5 is a game changer. Thanks yo ( T'au player )
hell yea i remembered to use cut them down today too. only got a wound out of it, but hey, vs custodes those are rare enough as it is.
I can't even tell what units can 'shrug off wounds' (and how that works), let alone remember all these other rules XD
But this video helps a lot. Thanks for the reminder.
Wait a second auspex, you had a character...in engagement range...of an imperial knight...and he survived...
Who charged who ?
Knight charged my unit, killed said unit then piled into the character to lock him up :)
@@auspextactics dang man that sucks, at least he lived another day (albeit on a thread) to command his units into battle
Defensible terrain…. That makes a difference. I need to remember that one
This is a great video. We need more like this, help us skill-up our gameplay
The inverse to remembering Heroic Interventions is making sure when you fall back from a melee character, you fall back more than 3”.
My best example is my opponent fell back their 3 Crisis Suits away from my Lord of Contagion, but wanted to still contest the objective so they didn’t fall back far. Unfortunately for him nothing was in a position to shoot my Lord of Contagion, so I got a free Heroic Intervention off on the Crisis Suits.
Auspex Tactics is fantastic. Long live
Playing tau in 9e really drilled into my mind the importance of defensible terrain
More of these please 😀
Defensible terrain works brilliantly for Tau
Add a cadre in that unit of fire warriors and it’s 3 S5 shots on a 5+ overwatch for each troop-deadly.
@@Archaeometal and with the FE it could be even more deadlier
The cut them down thing seems very good if you can somehow get a enemy to run and they are heavy armor and you have a hoard of something (IG)
As an extension of the point about Grenades, Astra Militarum specifically have the Grenadiers stratagem, allowing them for 1 CP to fire with up to ten grenades, not just one. Granted, might not be the best use of a CP, but if you're in a situation where at least ten Infantry, or better yet Conscripts, are within 6" of the enemy during the shooting phase, it could massively swing the damage in your favor. Especially if the enemy unit has at least 6 models.
10 d6 S3 shots is devastating to even terminators. Better yet. Veterans, if you could use multiple stratagems (unfortunately you can’t) that could be 10 d6 S3 Ap-1 shots hitting on 3+. For 2 cp.
Super useful with DKOK combat engineers who have Gas bombs which wound on 2+
Cut them down can be good against Necrons Warriors blobs
It also is a bit of a worry for my ultramarines.
Without the Szarekhan dynasty, they don't get reanimation for it either
@@pbnjgoodness v? v
Totally forgot that cut them down deals mortals thanks my man!
Cut them down saved my bacon once and nearly did amazingly in another. I nearly killed a respawned Farseer on Jetbike but his fnp saved the two mortal wounds I caused (Crusade artifact or ghosthelm, I think). In another I had around 40 hormagants and two carnifexes around a Baneblade that decided to fall back so I couldn't destroy the damn thing. I rolled hot and caused 11 mortal wounds, killing the Baneblade as the swarming gaunts ripped a hatch open and butchered the crew. The rule allows models from multiple units to roll after all.
Tabletop Tactics recently posted a battle report where a unit of Crisis Battlesuits used Cut Them Down to finish off a biker Chaplain that has just killed the Tau Commander.
Would 'Cut Them Down' be useful against Necrons that can fallback, shoot, then charge and attack in the same turn with that pesky ability if they're in proximity to the HQ (forget which ones allows it)
What do you think of astrates granade launchers for intercessors?
They are cheap way to add pich to a unit (they count as assault so you can still fire the rifle) expecially against hordes and can make the unit a moderate treath against light vehicles (with 2 krak granades basically).
Of could also be one of the few good use for the “combat squad” rule, you could get a team with 2 GL.
I tend to like them but maybe i’m missing something because no one ever birngs them.
so many people forget about this like myself.
I only use them if I have 5pts to spare.
@@peterandjunko yeah ofc if you can get an other unit you cut them out but, it's still a worthy upgrade imo (expecially for something like white scars...5 intercessors with ABR + GL in assault doctrine can be a truly powerful litte unit)
@@lolply54 I hear u. I play deathwatch so it’s not as good for my hellblaster kill team as the intercessors are basically ablative wounds. The grenade launcher is a little bonus if I can squeeze it in the list.
Speaking of firing pistols and grenades early- aren't you supposed to declare all your shots before rolling? Doesn't make much difference then- you fired your grenade at a unit, didn't do anything, you can't change your allocated shots.
Kroot can do a heroic intervention with stratagem. Very usefull to slow down a unit
My orks need to be using cut them down more more stik bombs is always an excellent one to remember for orks too
And especially don’t forget them while playing Legends like Renegades and Heretics!
we need every tool that we can get
Im my last game, I used 'cut them down' to actually finish the enemy warlord, when he fell back from my primaris captain. Got really lucky on my single d6!
I always forget Defensible 🤣
Im not usually one to pick people up on grammar but I believe it's pronounced Feh-Tid for foetid.
Great Video!
You mention scarabs as having some special ability as regards heroic intervention… I can’t see the rule you are referring to, they aren’t a character. Is there some rare scarab stratagem I am unaware of?
Oh, found it. Nothing to do with Scarabs (the unit) or Canoptek units. It is a cryptek arcana piece of wargear called “cortical subjugator scarabs”.
Check the necron strategems too
@@josepheastham9717 Cheers, will do.
also a 1cp strat for canoptek units to heroically intervene (previously was advance and charge)
@@eelacanth Cheers yeah I see that, it was just when he said scarabs can HI,
I was like “wtf” hahahah :-)
I watch a lot of battle reports and I have heard people speak very highly of the power of a boosted overwatch and then I see the same people completely ignore Hold Steady. It's seemed kinda ironic to me.
I don't play myself but with all the combat armies that are shredding people these days I'm really surprised by the lack of flamers for the soul purpose of over watch. Why do people not use them? Is it just too easy to turn off overwatch by charging with a different units first or do flamers not have high enough strength or AP to really be of any significant use?
My Sallies successors never leave home without 'em. It would be like leaving the house without my keys.😁🔥
@@mikemarcotte5962 you rock them with aggressors or do you just take them as special weapons in tac squads?
@@legomacinnisinc mostly with my tac squads. I've found it discourages just straight-up bullying them, what with their whopping one attack at base. Plus, there's a strat that allows sons of Vulkan to flame into melee if they get the opportunity. Basically turns them into pistols. Provided the squad doesn't get wiped during the charge, that is😉
@@mikemarcotte5962 nice! I have yet to start collecting or playing but Salamanders is definitely on my short list for what I would want to play.
Great video
Great idea for a show
ALL SW units having 3" heroic is useful (and the 6" strat!) How many other units/abilities are there that have 6?
Black Templars have a WT that grants a 6" HI
@@grifcastle8776 Nice! An Aura/bubble or on a model/unit?
@@mattfink9349 just for the Warlord, not an Aura. That would be crazy if he could give out an Aura like that though
@@grifcastle8776 it’s very useful for a judiciar now.
From what I know of also, Imperial Knight freeblade quality Mysterious Guardian and Blood angels WLT Heroic Bearing
Who are the gold boys at 3:40 ?
Defensible with tau basically gives me tau septs advantages while running enclaves
Cut them down is strong against harlequins!
4 forgetten rules of 40k
Me: 1.5 years out of practice due to reasons and barely can remember the basics, let alone knowing any of the 9th ed stuff. Plus side i play Tau so i don't have to worry about half the game anyway.
I always forget about my grenades lol
Cut them down - the reason I’m pondering 20-30 Cultists charging some shooters after tide of traitors XD
5:17 wait can i shoot pistols in the shooting round if I'm already engaged in combat?
If they're pistols then yes.
These are game wide strategems right? Not faction?
I have one, units with more than one weapon can fire all those weapons in one round.
Genestealer Cult player gets 120 models in combat range, DOESN'T use Cut Them Down :V
Cut Them Down never works for me, but I play Marines so I never have enough rolls to matter.
As somebody who has only been vaguely following the new rules...
What -is- Core?
Core units are things like Necron warriors or imperial guardsmen. It is stuff that fills the core of your army
@@HisMagnificence I mean, what does it do, mechanically?
Why aren’t you doing batreps?
But what happens if you throw an infinite amount of grenades?
Heavy cover is a thing
How would tau overwatch interact with defensible terrain?
Still 5+ unfortunately.
Cut then down needs to be 2CP and on a 4++
I thought “hood steady” was automatic
I see this missed by a lot of people you can only throw 1 grenade per unit
Ha ha my opponent always agrees befor the battle that ruins are defensible then when i say my guys are in deffencible terrain its always we don't play that you cannot do that you cannot overwatch very sore loser
Sorry to hear that. Those kinds of people are not fun to play against.
If he really didn't want you to use Overwatch he should just play genestealer cult. They have a strategem that outright stops overwatch from happening for a turn.
Don’t remember defensible when I play my Stygies 8 mohahahjahahahahah