And then there was Ord Cestus. Arc Trooper A-98, who had taken the name Jangotat (meaning "Jango's brother" ) after beginning to discover his humanity, learned that the CIS had planned to trick the Republic into slaughtering countless locals from orbit. He was at the real target, and because he was wounded, he called down the bombardment on his own position; giving his life for a city full of innocents. The captain of the warship in orbit took the shot, but didn't know or care why Jangotat was really sacrificing himself, he just figured it was a "stupid suicidal clone"
*_“In water, you are born. In fire, you die. Your bodies seed the stars.”_* Man, that quote reminds me of some of the Death Korps of Krieg's own quotes: *_"In life, war. In death, peace. In life, shame. In death, atonement."_*
This only makes what Rex said all the more chilling… “I hate to tell you this, but they don’t care. This ship is going down; and those soldiers, my brothers, are willing to die and take you and me along with them!”
When you were talking about Jedi trying to bring self-preservation to the clones, I'm surprised there was no mention of the scene between Plo Koon and his troopers. "We're clones. We're meant to be expendable." "Not to me." Iconic scene, that.
Jeez, why is Star Wars lore legitimately so interesting. I’m not even a Star Wars fan by most means, I liked a couple of the movies, but these videos of yours give me an appreciation for the creativity of the people who have worked on all different parts of the franchise to make it alive and unique. Great channel, bro!
If you like reading or audiobooks the novels are amazing some od my favorite books, almost all are at least decent. Plageuis is too tier and relates to the prequel era. The new Jedi order books are one of my favorite
How? Nothing about that statement changes with this "information". Sounds to me like you just never took the time to comprehend what they meant when they said that. Like seriously, what else were you imagining when they said they were meant to be expendable?
This is made much more horrific when you remember the Jedi sensed the clones energy of that of a child. So basically child soldiers being indoctrinated into being nothing more than cannon fodder
Now in the case of Hardcase, his first thought wasn't to sacrifice himself, he only did that as a last resort and he told his brothers to get out of there so they could live. Sometimes in war, one must sacrifice themselves, but it should never ever be the first option, only the last option if all else fails. Even in the Dragon Ball franchise, where there are multiple ways to bring characters back from the dead, the characters never go with blowing themselves up as the first option, it's always the last option. So Hardcase's example is the concept done right and good, whereas Alpha is it done wrong since his first thought during the First Battle of Kamino was to sacrifice the other Clones, instead of trying to find another solution and only resorting to sacrificing if all else fails.
Jango Fett: "Do you like your army?" Obi-Wan Kenobi: "I am looking forward to see them in action." Jango Fett: "They'll do their job well. I'll guarantee that."
This is why I think the Clones were so against Krell's orders. It wasn't because their lives were at risk, but because there were better options that would lead to victory and reduce casualties. Krell's tactics lessened the chances of victory.
or maybe it's cause, yknow, their lives were at risk and krell was obviously giving them 0 chances and the highest casualties possible by feeding them false information to have them literally kill each other?
@@Eli-akad nah, they said "it wasn't because their lives were at risk" and "krell's tactics lessened the chances of victory" both of this ain't true because their lives were at risk constantly and he made it pretty clear that he's intentionally doing that, and krell would of ensured that the seperatists win, not the republic. the clones didn't rebel because they thought they'd loose, they were tired of him getting them all killed and the suicidal tactics, and he crossed the line when he had them fight each other
Gotta love the CWMMP depictions of clones being almost soulless, with little sense of human camaraderie if at all. Anyways, salute to that Brentaal IV nameless clone!
0:43 Death Korps of Krieg: "I finally found you... Mood Kindred." Grand Army of the Republic: "What? M-mo-mood Kindred? Are you also produced in mass numbers, trained to be soldiers and then sent out to fight and lose your lives on the battlefield as well?" Death Korps of Krieg: "Yes.... YES! MOOD KINDRED!" Grand Army of the Republic: "MOOD KINDRED!"
@@justjoking5841 Brothers from the clone and flesh vats. May the mountains of our corpses earn a scrap of his forgiveness… *Gas Mask Noise intensifies*
it reminds me of a war game I read between the U.S and china when relations were somewhat steady. basically, a team of US marines and a team of chinese were ordered to take a hill. the marine's did it the right way: scouted the way up, called in close fire support, covered each other, and took the hill in like 45min. the chinese assembled at the base, the commander screamed and order and they basically banzi charged up the hill taking three times as many casualties as the marines but taking the hill in 10 minutes.
The difference in the end? The marines will have more experienced troops for the next mission, while the other guys will have a demoralized few who will be combat ineffective. Do it right, whatever right is.
The difference between the Chinese army and us marines is numbers, 1 million Chinese soldiers against 177.200 marines the Chinese will happily throw away 700 thousand troops to take a hill while the us would rather carpet bomb it and call it a day
This is likely false, it sounds like it was based on myths from the Korean War. I know this because I have read interviews of PVA veterans and read Chinese combat doctrine. Chinese infantry tactics pre-modernization calls for small fire teams of 3 to cover each other on advance in triangular fire nets, each fire team spread out 20-30m. The reason why casualties are higher is really due to inferior equipment (60mm mortars are considered heavy artillery for the Chinese army in the 1950s). Just think of it logically, if Banzai charges and human waves are really that effective, then how the US beat Japan in land warfares so easily while the Chinese army was able to push the UN forces from the Sino-North Korean border back to the 38th parallel. The reason why the Chinese have the reputation of "human waves" is because Chinese tactics is always about finding weak areas in enemy, punch in, break up and cut enemies into isolated blocs and encircle them, then wiping them out. Hence it gave some US soldiers the false impression that there is a human wave, not helped by the fact that Chinese had high casualties from inferior equipment, and also the extremely high morale of Chinese which made them fearless as they believed that once US defeats North Korea they will invade China next. The false impression of human waves was then subsequently exaggerated to serve as anti-Communist propaganda in the Cold War, hence leading to this myth. On a side note, modern PLA tactics are similar in essence, but with one more step: BLOW EVERYTHING UP FIRST
To be fair the banzai charges the Japanese did was useually when they were already beaten conventionally. The few times they did it while fresh it was effective (but wasteful which is why they usually did it when they knew it they had been defeated already in a specific battle)
@@henrywang3403 It’s similar to the stereotype of Soviet-era “human wave charges”, when in reality Soviet doctrine relied on defense in depth and very very intricate combined arms tactics. In both situations here, their opponents might have perceived them as using “human wave” tactics simply because they were outnumbered
Geetsly, you are by far one of my go-to sources for Star Wars lore. Videos like this are why. I'm not usually a military strategist guy, but your coverage of this kind of stuff is very well done that it ropes me in.
Looking this way, the GAR is very similar to the Astra Militarum from Warhammer 40k: Elite soldiers, indoctrinated to throw away their lives to complete the mission, viewed by their superiors as Meat for the Meat grinder.
I really enjoyed your previous series about battles being visualized. Would you consider making more videos like those for battles that were shown in comics and books?
All I want is a band of brothers type series that follows a company of clones from training throughout the war. One less focused on Jedi and secret missions and just devoted to the average clone grunt just trying to survive one day at a time.
Can you explain jet packs in a video. Why did some clones ALWAYS have a smaller jet pack than others like Commander Cody or Captain Vaughn. If they scale something, why do they(clones) mainly use ascension cables (like on planet Teth to rescue Rotta the Hutt). In that example, why wouldn’t the clones use jet packs to rapidly get up the cliff? The clones in the timeline, had used jet packs hours earlier on Christophis to take out Octuparras.
@@kingbubbafatt9945 I would expect that larger jetpacks would have more fuel and therefore greater flight time. Ascension cables don’t explode when shot, and are more stealthy. That said, I don’t know how much this input into writers choices as much as the coolness factor.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis the cables may have been more stealthy, however again on Teth, the droids had found them and the clones were taking casualties. I suspect what you said how the writers missed some finer details or didn’t care too much about coolness factor
@@kingbubbafatt9945 it could be that too, but also considered availability of supplies. There’s a lot of tech n equipment that could be used in alot of situations (both in real life and in this situation) however doesn’t mean the amount available for use if sufficient for every base/ or trooper to have access to this equipment. That’s how I look at certain situations seen in the show
Clones are perfect soldiers in a sense, they're not empathic nor care for their own life, this allowed them to make full use of their abilities for war. This may be horrible humanlly but we have to admit that's partly what made the clones so efficient as an army.
we also need to consider the enemy they fought. the droids, while not very bright, were utterly relentless and regularly had the clones well outnumbered. it's distasteful to consider, but would other tactics have even worked? it's important to remember the GAR had the droids on the ropes after only a few years in a galactic scale war so they were clearly working well.
Nevermind anything the evil fish people might have taught them, just think of what the Cuy’val Dar were teaching them. *Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur* (Today is a good day for someone else to die)
I’m amazed this mindset didn’t cost the Republic the war, even with Palpatine pulling the strings. When you’re outnumbered 100 to 1 on a good day, you do whatever it takes to keep your men alive, ESPECIALLY when your side takes longer to replenish its ranks
Just another example as to why it was a good idea and a bad idea for the clones to interact with the Jedi. While most of the Jedi weren’t the best generals, they at least treated them as human beings.
oh, i dont think so. i think they knew. they knew who it was that they were working with. they knew he was the dark lord of the sith. and they didnt care.
Always though that the clone's willingness to do anything to achieve victory and bring peace back to the galaxy through self-sacrifice and dying to protect their brothers was another means to allow themselves to ingratiate themselves with their jedi generals and become best pals with them before order 66 came down.
Some clone units would seriously give the Death Korps of Krieg a run for their money in ruthlessness, mechanical efficiency, and disregard for casualties. The sad thing is that more than a few jedi would have made fine Imperial Guard commanders in Warhammer 40k.
There is pointless sacrifice... And there is sacrifice that keeps your side from losing the war... Also; losing the battle can ofen mean execution by the enemy anyway...sometimes losing the war can also mean this.
@Geetsly's You know how much you love clones on this channel? Well... Could you possibly do a video on whether or not any of the Wolffe Pack actually DISOBEYED Order 66? We all know Wolffe did but I was just curious as to whether or not any of his men did too. I think that would be an interesting video.
Ordering soldiers to die in a rear guard action has been common practice for all of history including today. You die to protect your brothers, there is no greater honor or worse duty
An interesting story about Rearguard actions I heard once was that when a British regiment was told they'd be the rearguard, their commander told all of his company commanders to "tell your men the good news. We'll be the rear guard".
In hardcase's... Case, he did knowing that destroying the command ship would cripple the CIS and potentially save hundreds of his brothers. So i feel that one is more genuinely heroic as oppose to the whole living machine mindset.
I would imagine that, instead of being controlled by the "living machine" mentality, he used it to further his own goals (save the Republic, save his brothers). He decided that self-sacrifice was the best option, so the fact that he had been indoctrinated to not resist the idea was not the disadvantage that it usually was, and he might as well use all the tools at his disposal. Doesn't make it any less heroic.
There’s a difference between just treating your life as nothing, and sacrificing yourself not just for the mission, but for what you believe or believe will help your side end the war. Yes the clones were indoctrinated to be just cannon fodder, but I think they themselves still rationalize it that they’d only do it if it was essential to complete a mission, otherwise they’d never use cover, they’d just blindly march in ordered formation into battle like droids, instead we see them use cover, use tactics, whatever it took to keep alive as long as they completed the mission or pulled out if ordered. That is the difference between real soldiers like the clones and drones. It isn’t until order 66 we’re the clones largely became drone like.
I genuinely don't understand why the part with Bly is so bad, just about every soldier on our modern day Earth would do the same. A rear guard action often ends in death.
More horryfing would be the pre-WW1 tactics that the jedi and clones employed with the sheer idiocy considering they have weapons that far surpass what we can bring to bear today.
In short, the "Good Soldiers Follow Orders" and suicidal mentality could have easily been justified as yet another tool for Palpatine to get rid of the clones once his rise to power was complete.
Even in the argument or self dilemma it can get very complex in a hurry. Like WHOM specifically is gonna have to run the sacrifice play? How important are they? Which begs questions like can even if THEY try to sacrifice themselves IF that's right or can be permitted if they're particularly important or valuable somehow? Not to mention details like the battle being waged an how important is said fight or "mission" in it?? Knowing such questions an their answers more importantly all play major roles in determining if such tactics are sound or not. Thing is the GAR just DIDN'T ever have the numbers to often do these sorta "throw your life away" tactics an mentality and STILL be an effective fighting force even if the rank an file was still considered elite an then STILL be battlefield capable afterwards for long. Especially not in theaters encompassing not just multiple important worlds an/or bases BUT whole star Systems or Quadrants too sometimes
It's late tonight and I've come to a realisation. I like how your voice sounds as white noise. It's good for background noise as I do stuff but most likely would be great to sleep to.
Not too different with bly because that’s similiar to what your trained to do in us military as in one moves and the other shoots then when you enter a building one goes first and always implied you will be shot but there’s really no other option so just hope for the best
The first through the fatal funnel really is screwed. The defender will always have the jump on you, so first man is very likely to end up as a casualty. That's why everyone has to get in and clear the room with speed and aggression. Otherwise everyone will die in the fatal funnel.
GeetSly, you have such a great speaking voice. Love your videos. So many channels have great lore, but their speaking voice is just, not good (I don't want to be rude to others, so not good). Keep up the great work. Ever thought of doing more based on the SWTOR game? The MMO.
2:47 As a basic connection to past videos you have made on this topic. I have to wonder if darth sidious and count duku had a hand in picking the clone army for the republic. The express training to increase the clones willingness to throw there lives away is likely deliberate. I'm paraphrasing what I remember but Jedi leading troops who died in battle suffered trauma and had weakened access to the force. It would not have been apparent at first but over time. I'm fairly sure I don't have all the details correct here but the humanity of the clones connected with the deliberate training to not value life.... This feels like a deliberate choice to force the Jedi to become filled with guilt with the knowledge of there war dead. Keeping the military expenditure low prior to the civil war alongside increased use of Jedi as republic enforcers is also connected. As seen in the movies 1-2. While all this seems logical and plausible plays by a beuroratic government. The hand of the sith to distract from government fundamentals is clear. Post clone wars the and even post imperial age there are trials for the republic remnants. So the lost focus on deterring military threat and keeping home grown factions in line seems deliberately elevated. Not saying that there was nothing to the idea of a old complacent system. But the sith infiltration especially given how good a manipulative genius Darth sidious was looks to be a larger factor then normally appreciated. Going full circle back to the specific targeting of Quigon Jin. If Jin was being heard and becoming influential in reforming the Jedi away from being caught up in republican power structures. ... This would have completely destroyed the sith plan to force attrition upon them like they suffered in the wars with the Mandalorians. The Mandalorian wars may have even been the inspiration for the sith manufacturer of the clone wars. The increased reason for the attacks in Jin was his call back to the Jedi refusing to take part in much of the Mandalorian wars. If this had even partially happened in the clone wars then a small more focused group a break away Jedi under Jin could have really ruined the emperor's after war plans.
The Clones thinking is like an extreme form of the Marines Corps "Complete the Mission (Charlie Mike)" attitude. Marines will do what it takes to complete the mission. But not throw their lives away willy-nilly. And would not commit war crimes for a minor gain, or solve an inconvenience. Its one thing have dedicated soldiers. But its another thing having soldiers like the Clones or the Death Korps of Krieg.
You discuss the zeal and discipline that the clones take to completing their missions and describe it as horrifying, but how is that really any different than the countless other last stands, both irl and in-universe across other factions? Is it any less noble or heroic if it’s someone like a Jedi who sacrifices themselves to finish a mission, knowing that they would die because of it, but completing it all the same? They would have been taught similar philosophies of self sacrifice for the greater good too. We describe such things as incredibly brave or noble, yet you also classify actions such as that of the clones being awful and a terrible waste. What separates the two, exactly, and where does one draw the line between noble self sacrifice and horrific suicide? *Is* there even a difference, or is it all just down to a difference in perspective? And because you lose a war or find out that the cause you were fighting for was either twisted or a lie, does that invalidate that sacrifice? Is it really all for ‘nothing?’ While it’s out of the confines of this video, I would’ve loved to hear you expand on some of this type of thinking.
The difference here between a Jedi sacrificing themselves and a clone doing it is that the clones were in essence programmed to do it. All of them. A sacrifice is in my opinion at least only noble when it's needed, clones will sacrifice themselves quite readily in a lot of cases. It comes down to the clones doing this when they don't need to as much as anything else. It becomes a waste when there are other less costly ways to complete the task at hand, as they are at that point just wasting their lives needlessly
Lucas nerfed the droids hard. Combination of things usually explained as corporate prioritisation of ‘doing it on the cheap-cheap’. Meanwhile during the times of the Old Republic era with __War droids__…
At this point, I failed to see the different between the Kaminoans in Star Wars and the Marleyans in Attack on Titan. Why? Because they are all nothing but dolphins!
I'm playing a lawful evil paladin who I based heavily on the clone idea of Just meat for the grinder. However I was given a order that is going to break him I have to murder two other soilders for the crime of being assigned to escort us
So this explains why the clones used Nepoleonic tactics early on in the war. All this seems familiar to the Death Korps of Krieg and their tactics, indoctrination, and thought process. Only the Death Korps has superior reasons behind these characteristics, and better drip.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Have you read their lore? Commisars are there to keep them from unnecessarily throwing their lives away for no gain, like the Jedi do. Outside force sent to keep the suicidal soldiers from killing themselves. Yeah, they're Death Korps alright.
If you had me say something to create a doctrine for an army of my own in any universe, never mind Star Wars, it'd be one of the internet rules of gunfighting: In ten years, nobody will care about caliber, stance or tactics. They will only remember who lived. If you let me I'd have etched the whole rules list into every clone brain case and been rewarded with a terrifying army of pathological cheaters who have fallback plans on top of fallback plans and are the first step to de-escalation after a fight's been decisively won. That's an army worth trusting a real republic with.
suicidally loyal clones are particularly advantageous to the Kaminoans because it means another clone that will need to be replaced ensuring the Kaminoans future business.
Honestly that quote “good soldiers follows orders”, I would think German soldiers probably told themselves that during world war 2 or at least something similar to it.
I’m not sure it’s quite the same in this context. Regarding the Germans, that was only a defence when they lost and an opposing culture with opposing values was holding them accountable for their actions. I’m not sure they cared much in the moment.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 not every soilder supported the ideals of the 3rd Reich. Some were American born but forced home by there families. Ie. See band of brothers
Can you do battle droid vs clone trooper vs variant, for example arc troopers vs commando droids or droideka vs jet troopers and vulture droid vs clone starships
The combat doctrines of the Clone Army is incredibly ineffective, especially given their limited numbers and the lethality of combat in Star Wars. Granted, a decent portion of this can be excused due to the heavy influence of World War II combat footage on Star Wars. However, if we look entirely within the context of the universe itself, the battle doctrines of the GAR are entirely ineffective. Simply put, there are not enough clones to support a suicidal banzai assault against CIS positions. Such things work for battle droids because they are cheap. A B-1 battle droid costs maybe 1,800 credits to manufacture and can be built in minutes while a Clone Trooper requires 10 years and hundreds of thousands of credits to raise, train, and equip. For the cost of a single Clone Trooper, the CIS could build 190 B-1 Battle Droids. Even at their best, GAR to CIS kill to loss rates were 1 Clone for every 50 Battle Droids. For something that costs almost 200 times more than a B-1, every dead clone is a net win for the CIS, even if they lose the battle. In truth, the GAR very much should have been optimized for small unit, dispersed operations with heavily integrated support from indirect and direct fires, starfighters, and orbiting starships. The primary advantage of the clone troopers is their greater skill and independence and those things should have been prioritized. You can even keep the Clones focus on the mission but suicidaly and dogmatically sticking to Plan A even when that plan has been fragged to hell and gone is a waste of resources the Republic and Palpatine didn't have. The only reason Palpatine's plans didn't unravel on him by accident is because he had Dooku pulling the strings of the CIS. A couple things go wrong in the First Battle of Geonosis, Dooku winds up dead, and Grievous gets a free hand of the Droid Army, resulting in the GAR being wiped out within the year in a series of attritional slogs that they don't have the manpower for.
One way of getting around the Napoleonic and medieval tactics depicted in the films and shows, that some fans do is head canoning or rationalizing how scenarios may semi logically play out. Star Wars has little in the form of logic though. It is more about visual spectacle and being a proverbial sandbox within a Space Fantasy setting for people to have nonsense adventures. Although it does take many references from real world events and visually paraphrases, inferences, references, and hyperbolizes them to an extent. Regarding Geonosis though... The Clone Troopers were mere minutes from landing on the surface of Geonosis via their Acclamator transport ships, and were still in their march orders. Most were already coming off the ramps by the time the Droids were already on the counter attack. As we can see in the movie, many Acclamators landed pretty closely to the Geonosian Arena. At around the same time Droid formations not currently packed onto their own transport ships, were used to hold the Clones back alongside the Geonosian Army. Thus we get the open field meeting engagement as seen in Attack of the Clones. The Droids seen were nothing more than an expendable wall of metal so that the primary forces and major assets most vital to the Separatist cause could escape. If the Separatists cannot organize their vast numbers effectively, then the Republic gets more room to maneuver and more time to prepare a greater assault or a steadfast defence. The Grand Army of the Republic is more like a Shield than a Hammer. It is meant to be the proverbial Anvil meant to take the hits from the Droid Army's Hammer. So the Scalpel and the Spear of the Commando Jedi strike forces can hit the more valuable targets. Hence, the main Clone Army itself was nothing more than an attention grabber : functionally presenting itself as a target that is too big even for a mass like the Droid's to ignore.
Well, this was the point of Clones. Droids vs. replicants. Winner becomes the Empire's army template. Also with the Jedi forced to be generals and leaders they were not we have dehumanizing, as in PTSD, etc stuff coming in, Jedi failing their connection to the force and so on. Jedi downfall. If Jedi led the droids there wouldn't have been mental issues for them.
This is why I dislike their reveal/retcon that brain chips were needed for the clones to execute Order 66. We have here a bred and trained from birth soldier. Trained to be an expendable soldier, and not necessarily honorable warriors. They don't need coercion, when their supreme command orders them to assassinate their generals, years of indoctrination will make it automatic. ---- On a similar manner, I dislike that Commander Rex left Vader. His place is by Vader's side. They fought together and forged a bond. Vader represented order and loyalty to the Galactic Government, something I would have thought Rex, being a clone commander would have vibed with. ------ The clones were supposed to be a commentary on having a ruthless and efficient army. They are very effective, but they become dangerous to the public if wielded by the wrong person.
You've gotta take into account the fact that these "Clones" are, in point of fact, nothing less than Space Maori's ... Let that sink in ... KIORA, my brethren from the other side of the ditch!!
![Why this Battle was the Most DEPRESSING of the Entire Clone Wars [It Was All For Nothing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/seup3ciiw30/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why this Battle was the Most DEPRESSING of the Entire Clone Wars [It Was All For Nothing]](/img/tr.png)
And then there was Ord Cestus. Arc Trooper A-98, who had taken the name Jangotat (meaning "Jango's brother" ) after beginning to discover his humanity, learned that the CIS had planned to trick the Republic into slaughtering countless locals from orbit. He was at the real target, and because he was wounded, he called down the bombardment on his own position; giving his life for a city full of innocents. The captain of the warship in orbit took the shot, but didn't know or care why Jangotat was really sacrificing himself, he just figured it was a "stupid suicidal clone"
Ah, The Cestus Deception. Underrated novel that sure deserves the Essential Legends Collection treatment.
Ord cestus gone both not forgotten
If he truly was drone like he’d probably not say anything, I think he chose to sacrifice himself so the vivid would live. That is bravery.
*_“In water, you are born. In fire, you die. Your bodies seed the stars.”_*
Man, that quote reminds me of some of the Death Korps of Krieg's own quotes: *_"In life, war. In death, peace. In life, shame. In death, atonement."_*
When you realized GAR is the white-washed version of Krieg, and were constantly pitted against comedic Necron in a galactic civil war...
“We have come for you! In midnight clad!”
Gray wardens?
@@nothing09832 hahah tell that to yeh skywatch
It’s very much a Niestche/Nazi kind of megalomaniacal quote
This only makes what Rex said all the more chilling…
“I hate to tell you this, but they don’t care. This ship is going down; and those soldiers, my brothers, are willing to die and take you and me along with them!”
When you were talking about Jedi trying to bring self-preservation to the clones, I'm surprised there was no mention of the scene between Plo Koon and his troopers.
"We're clones. We're meant to be expendable." "Not to me."
Iconic scene, that.
Of course a Jedi won't use life as an expendable resource, they are Jedi ffs. That scene is very overrated.
Jeez, why is Star Wars lore legitimately so interesting. I’m not even a Star Wars fan by most means, I liked a couple of the movies, but these videos of yours give me an appreciation for the creativity of the people who have worked on all different parts of the franchise to make it alive and unique. Great channel, bro!
You're a massive Star Wars nerd at heart.
Search your feelings, you know this to be true.
@@TC-th1ey if he wasn't a star wars fan he wouldn't be here 😅
The Force is strong with him.
Always give props to anyone throwing out compliments on yt and social media. More of this please. 🤗
If you like reading or audiobooks the novels are amazing some od my favorite books, almost all are at least decent. Plageuis is too tier and relates to the prequel era. The new Jedi order books are one of my favorite
"we're clone, we're meant to be expendable" hits different with this information
"Not to me."
How? Nothing about that statement changes with this "information". Sounds to me like you just never took the time to comprehend what they meant when they said that. Like seriously, what else were you imagining when they said they were meant to be expendable?
@@jacobburns1095 i though they meant that they were not worth the effort of a rescue mission, not that their very lives were military assets
This is made much more horrific when you remember the Jedi sensed the clones energy of that of a child. So basically child soldiers being indoctrinated into being nothing more than cannon fodder
The clones really made me understand probability in numbers. Savage
Now in the case of Hardcase, his first thought wasn't to sacrifice himself, he only did that as a last resort and he told his brothers to get out of there so they could live. Sometimes in war, one must sacrifice themselves, but it should never ever be the first option, only the last option if all else fails. Even in the Dragon Ball franchise, where there are multiple ways to bring characters back from the dead, the characters never go with blowing themselves up as the first option, it's always the last option.
So Hardcase's example is the concept done right and good, whereas Alpha is it done wrong since his first thought during the First Battle of Kamino was to sacrifice the other Clones, instead of trying to find another solution and only resorting to sacrificing if all else fails.
This is a nice way to explain why the clones despite being in the more civilized setting, would act sometime like Imperial Guard units
Jango Fett: "Do you like your army?"
Obi-Wan Kenobi: "I am looking forward to see them in action."
Jango Fett: "They'll do their job well. I'll guarantee that."
True they did a good job exterminating the jedi a little too good job
This is why I think the Clones were so against Krell's orders. It wasn't because their lives were at risk, but because there were better options that would lead to victory and reduce casualties. Krell's tactics lessened the chances of victory.
or maybe it's cause, yknow, their lives were at risk and krell was obviously giving them 0 chances and the highest casualties possible by feeding them false information to have them literally kill each other?
@@shiby1860 that’s exactly what the person stated. U just reworded it and added a few extra points🤣🤦🏾♂️
@@Eli-akad nah, they said "it wasn't because their lives were at risk" and "krell's tactics lessened the chances of victory" both of this ain't true because their lives were at risk constantly and he made it pretty clear that he's intentionally doing that, and krell would of ensured that the seperatists win, not the republic. the clones didn't rebel because they thought they'd loose, they were tired of him getting them all killed and the suicidal tactics, and he crossed the line when he had them fight each other
@@shiby1860 I meant initially before it became 100% obvious Krell was working against them. Then it became a fight for survival.
@@Eli-akad Use whatever reading comprehension you learned in school and re-read what they wrote
It was the mission on the Noghri temple that really opened my eyes to this.
Gotta love the CWMMP depictions of clones being almost soulless, with little sense of human camaraderie if at all.
Anyways, salute to that Brentaal IV nameless clone!
0:43 Death Korps of Krieg: "I finally found you... Mood Kindred."
Grand Army of the Republic: "What? M-mo-mood Kindred? Are you also produced in mass numbers, trained to be soldiers and then sent out to fight and lose your lives on the battlefield as well?"
Death Korps of Krieg: "Yes.... YES! MOOD KINDRED!"
Grand Army of the Republic: "MOOD KINDRED!"
You know, when you put it like that, it makes you realize how dark star wars can be.
Mood.
Brothers from a million different mothers lol
@@justjoking5841 Brothers from the clone and flesh vats.
May the mountains of our corpses earn a scrap of his forgiveness…
*Gas Mask Noise intensifies*
it reminds me of a war game I read between the U.S and china when relations were somewhat steady. basically, a team of US marines and a team of chinese were ordered to take a hill. the marine's did it the right way: scouted the way up, called in close fire support, covered each other, and took the hill in like 45min. the chinese assembled at the base, the commander screamed and order and they basically banzi charged up the hill taking three times as many casualties as the marines but taking the hill in 10 minutes.
The difference in the end? The marines will have more experienced troops for the next mission, while the other guys will have a demoralized few who will be combat ineffective.
Do it right, whatever right is.
The difference between the Chinese army and us marines is numbers, 1 million Chinese soldiers against 177.200 marines the Chinese will happily throw away 700 thousand troops to take a hill while the us would rather carpet bomb it and call it a day
This is likely false, it sounds like it was based on myths from the Korean War. I know this because I have read interviews of PVA veterans and read Chinese combat doctrine. Chinese infantry tactics pre-modernization calls for small fire teams of 3 to cover each other on advance in triangular fire nets, each fire team spread out 20-30m. The reason why casualties are higher is really due to inferior equipment (60mm mortars are considered heavy artillery for the Chinese army in the 1950s). Just think of it logically, if Banzai charges and human waves are really that effective, then how the US beat Japan in land warfares so easily while the Chinese army was able to push the UN forces from the Sino-North Korean border back to the 38th parallel. The reason why the Chinese have the reputation of "human waves" is because Chinese tactics is always about finding weak areas in enemy, punch in, break up and cut enemies into isolated blocs and encircle them, then wiping them out. Hence it gave some US soldiers the false impression that there is a human wave, not helped by the fact that Chinese had high casualties from inferior equipment, and also the extremely high morale of Chinese which made them fearless as they believed that once US defeats North Korea they will invade China next.
The false impression of human waves was then subsequently exaggerated to serve as anti-Communist propaganda in the Cold War, hence leading to this myth.
On a side note, modern PLA tactics are similar in essence, but with one more step:
BLOW EVERYTHING UP FIRST
To be fair the banzai charges the Japanese did was useually when they were already beaten conventionally. The few times they did it while fresh it was effective (but wasteful which is why they usually did it when they knew it they had been defeated already in a specific battle)
@@henrywang3403 It’s similar to the stereotype of Soviet-era “human wave charges”, when in reality Soviet doctrine relied on defense in depth and very very intricate combined arms tactics. In both situations here, their opponents might have perceived them as using “human wave” tactics simply because they were outnumbered
"remember trooper, if you ever lose your blaster, just start beating the sh*t outta the clanker"
Geetsly, you are by far one of my go-to sources for Star Wars lore. Videos like this are why. I'm not usually a military strategist guy, but your coverage of this kind of stuff is very well done that it ropes me in.
8:29 Cut Lawquane the Cucuruz Doan of the Clone Army with an adopted family of a hot wife and two kids.
Kaminoam ethics are basically "What ethics?"
I was watching a video on the Japanese defence of Iwo Jima. Soldiers willing to whatever it takes is not just fiction.
The one by The Operations Room?
@@ryl0_or934 Yup
@@ShawnHCorey Small world
Looking this way, the GAR is very similar to the Astra Militarum from Warhammer 40k: Elite soldiers, indoctrinated to throw away their lives to complete the mission, viewed by their superiors as Meat for the Meat grinder.
I really enjoyed your previous series about battles being visualized. Would you consider making more videos like those for battles that were shown in comics and books?
I would also be down for more of those.
Video Idea: The Most Hated Clones in Star Wars History
Faie and Kaddak, for two.
Commander fox
@@whyamisotired452 ...I bet it’s my diet.
Read the name of who I’m replying to if you don’t get it.
That one captain on corusant
@@miceltusav88 commander Fox
All I want is a band of brothers type series that follows a company of clones from training throughout the war. One less focused on Jedi and secret missions and just devoted to the average clone grunt just trying to survive one day at a time.
So Umbara without Krell?
@@huntclanhunt9697 Yeah basically
Star Wars Republic Commando 2 sounds good lol
Yes!
And I would add a bit spice with showing how for example the B2 Battle Droid was a unit. Add some horror similar to the B2 scene in Mando
Can you explain jet packs in a video. Why did some clones ALWAYS have a smaller jet pack than others like Commander Cody or Captain Vaughn. If they scale something, why do they(clones) mainly use ascension cables (like on planet Teth to rescue Rotta the Hutt). In that example, why wouldn’t the clones use jet packs to rapidly get up the cliff? The clones in the timeline, had used jet packs hours earlier on Christophis to take out Octuparras.
Cody and Vaughn were both commander of airborne units. Hence heavy emphasis of jetpacks.
@@huntclanhunt9697 yes, but other officers did not have the smaller jet pack. Commander Rex had the larger more standard sized jet pack
@@kingbubbafatt9945 I would expect that larger jetpacks would have more fuel and therefore greater flight time. Ascension cables don’t explode when shot, and are more stealthy. That said, I don’t know how much this input into writers choices as much as the coolness factor.
@@JohnGeorgeBauerBuis the cables may have been more stealthy, however again on Teth, the droids had found them and the clones were taking casualties. I suspect what you said how the writers missed some finer details or didn’t care too much about coolness factor
@@kingbubbafatt9945 it could be that too, but also considered availability of supplies. There’s a lot of tech n equipment that could be used in alot of situations (both in real life and in this situation) however doesn’t mean the amount available for use if sufficient for every base/ or trooper to have access to this equipment. That’s how I look at certain situations seen in the show
Plo koon: "i value your life more than finding that weapon."
"We're just clones, sir. We're meant to be expendable."
Clones always seemed have something about them that reminded me of Halo's Spartan 3's.
I know this sounds weird but I'd like to think that hardcase died for his brothers not just the mission.
The more clones were lost - more will be ordered from Kamino later, keep in mind this as well.
It's a financial win for Kamino.
Clones are perfect soldiers in a sense, they're not empathic nor care for their own life, this allowed them to make full use of their abilities for war. This may be horrible humanlly but we have to admit that's partly what made the clones so efficient as an army.
we also need to consider the enemy they fought. the droids, while not very bright, were utterly relentless and regularly had the clones well outnumbered. it's distasteful to consider, but would other tactics have even worked? it's important to remember the GAR had the droids on the ropes after only a few years in a galactic scale war so they were clearly working well.
Nevermind anything the evil fish people might have taught them, just think of what the Cuy’val Dar were teaching them.
*Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur* (Today is a good day for someone else to die)
Reminds me of the Imperial Japanese Army during the Second World War.
I’m amazed this mindset didn’t cost the Republic the war, even with Palpatine pulling the strings. When you’re outnumbered 100 to 1 on a good day, you do whatever it takes to keep your men alive, ESPECIALLY when your side takes longer to replenish its ranks
Let's not forget Jangotat, the clone that ordered an orbital strike on an enemy based - with himself as teh target marker.
Makes them look more like the death korps of krieg than I first thought
Just another example as to why it was a good idea and a bad idea for the clones to interact with the Jedi. While most of the Jedi weren’t the best generals, they at least treated them as human beings.
It’s sad to think that every sacrifice meant nothing in the grand scheme of everything
Slightly off topic I personally think the Z-6 rotary blaster cannon is the coolest blaster in star wars period
The Kaminoans were unknowingly preparing the clones for the Empire
oh, i dont think so.
i think they knew. they knew who it was that they were working with.
they knew he was the dark lord of the sith. and they didnt care.
Want a live action, gritty and dark clone wars series more and more
A good soldier does not put themselves before the mission.
A good soldier puts thier brothers and sisters at arms before the mission.
Always though that the clone's willingness to do anything to achieve victory and bring peace back to the galaxy through self-sacrifice and dying to protect their brothers was another means to allow themselves to ingratiate themselves with their jedi generals and become best pals with them before order 66 came down.
Clone wars does as alot of epic and brutal battles
Some clone units would seriously give the Death Korps of Krieg a run for their money in ruthlessness, mechanical efficiency, and disregard for casualties.
The sad thing is that more than a few jedi would have made fine Imperial Guard commanders in Warhammer 40k.
There is pointless sacrifice... And there is sacrifice that keeps your side from losing the war... Also; losing the battle can ofen mean execution by the enemy anyway...sometimes losing the war can also mean this.
@Geetsly's You know how much you love clones on this channel? Well... Could you possibly do a video on whether or not any of the Wolffe Pack actually DISOBEYED Order 66? We all know Wolffe did but I was just curious as to whether or not any of his men did too. I think that would be an interesting video.
Ordering soldiers to die in a rear guard action has been common practice for all of history including today. You die to protect your brothers, there is no greater honor or worse duty
An interesting story about Rearguard actions I heard once was that when a British regiment was told they'd be the rearguard, their commander told all of his company commanders to "tell your men the good news. We'll be the rear guard".
In hardcase's... Case, he did knowing that destroying the command ship would cripple the CIS and potentially save hundreds of his brothers. So i feel that one is more genuinely heroic as oppose to the whole living machine mindset.
It wasn’t a command ship, it was a supply ship. The overall effect still counts though.
@@ShadowGhost0117 ah, my bad. Been a while since i've seen the episode :P
@@SkullivanBones your fine, it happens
I would imagine that, instead of being controlled by the "living machine" mentality, he used it to further his own goals (save the Republic, save his brothers). He decided that self-sacrifice was the best option, so the fact that he had been indoctrinated to not resist the idea was not the disadvantage that it usually was, and he might as well use all the tools at his disposal.
Doesn't make it any less heroic.
There’s a difference between just treating your life as nothing, and sacrificing yourself not just for the mission, but for what you believe or believe will help your side end the war. Yes the clones were indoctrinated to be just cannon fodder, but I think they themselves still rationalize it that they’d only do it if it was essential to complete a mission, otherwise they’d never use cover, they’d just blindly march in ordered formation into battle like droids, instead we see them use cover, use tactics, whatever it took to keep alive as long as they completed the mission or pulled out if ordered. That is the difference between real soldiers like the clones and drones. It isn’t until order 66 we’re the clones largely became drone like.
I genuinely don't understand why the part with Bly is so bad, just about every soldier on our modern day Earth would do the same. A rear guard action often ends in death.
More horryfing would be the pre-WW1 tactics that the jedi and clones employed with the sheer idiocy considering they have weapons that far surpass what we can bring to bear today.
Yup and in real world history Roman sparta etc etc etc had the same mind set .
It definitely explains why they were always charging into open battle. Geonosis, Christophsis, etc
In short, the "Good Soldiers Follow Orders" and suicidal mentality could have easily been justified as yet another tool for Palpatine to get rid of the clones once his rise to power was complete.
Good soldiers follow orders, but only when the orders make sense
Shout Out from Anaheim California! Long Live Rancor Battalion!
When your a clone orders are all that matters...until there's no1 to give you orders anymore...
Even in the argument or self dilemma it can get very complex in a hurry. Like WHOM specifically is gonna have to run the sacrifice play? How important are they? Which begs questions like can even if THEY try to sacrifice themselves IF that's right or can be permitted if they're particularly important or valuable somehow? Not to mention details like the battle being waged an how important is said fight or "mission" in it?? Knowing such questions an their answers more importantly all play major roles in determining if such tactics are sound or not. Thing is the GAR just DIDN'T ever have the numbers to often do these sorta "throw your life away" tactics an mentality and STILL be an effective fighting force even if the rank an file was still considered elite an then STILL be battlefield capable afterwards for long. Especially not in theaters encompassing not just multiple important worlds an/or bases BUT whole star Systems or Quadrants too sometimes
Makes me wonder if clones understand the concept of fear and are numb to it, or if they finally feel it before they inevitably die
Was that a bomb vest in the thumbnail?
It's late tonight and I've come to a realisation.
I like how your voice sounds as white noise.
It's good for background noise as I do stuff but most likely would be great to sleep to.
Not too different with bly because that’s similiar to what your trained to do in us military as in one moves and the other shoots then when you enter a building one goes first and always implied you will be shot but there’s really no other option so just hope for the best
The first through the fatal funnel really is screwed. The defender will always have the jump on you, so first man is very likely to end up as a casualty. That's why everyone has to get in and clear the room with speed and aggression. Otherwise everyone will die in the fatal funnel.
@@jacobburns1095 reminding me of all the routine
Jesus, I keep forgetting how badass these guys are
GeetSly, you have such a great speaking voice. Love your videos. So many channels have great lore, but their speaking voice is just, not good (I don't want to be rude to others, so not good).
Keep up the great work.
Ever thought of doing more based on the SWTOR game? The MMO.
2:47
As a basic connection to past videos you have made on this topic.
I have to wonder if darth sidious and count duku had a hand in picking the clone army for the republic.
The express training to increase the clones willingness to throw there lives away is likely deliberate.
I'm paraphrasing what I remember but Jedi leading troops who died in battle suffered trauma and had weakened access to the force.
It would not have been apparent at first but over time.
I'm fairly sure I don't have all the details correct here but the humanity of the clones connected with the deliberate training to not value life.... This feels like a deliberate choice to force the Jedi to become filled with guilt with the knowledge of there war dead.
Keeping the military expenditure low prior to the civil war alongside increased use of Jedi as republic enforcers is also connected. As seen in the movies 1-2.
While all this seems logical and plausible plays by a beuroratic government. The hand of the sith to distract from government fundamentals is clear.
Post clone wars the and even post imperial age there are trials for the republic remnants.
So the lost focus on deterring military threat and keeping home grown factions in line seems deliberately elevated.
Not saying that there was nothing to the idea of a old complacent system.
But the sith infiltration especially given how good a manipulative genius Darth sidious was looks to be a larger factor then normally appreciated.
Going full circle back to the specific targeting of Quigon Jin. If Jin was being heard and becoming influential in reforming the Jedi away from being caught up in republican power structures.
... This would have completely destroyed the sith plan to force attrition upon them like they suffered in the wars with the Mandalorians. The Mandalorian wars may have even been the inspiration for the sith manufacturer of the clone wars.
The increased reason for the attacks in Jin was his call back to the Jedi refusing to take part in much of the Mandalorian wars. If this had even partially happened in the clone wars then a small more focused group a break away Jedi under Jin could have really ruined the emperor's after war plans.
That is really interesting and most likely fully true!
We are just viewers, Geetsly. We're meant to be expendable.
The Clones thinking is like an extreme form of the Marines Corps "Complete the Mission (Charlie Mike)" attitude. Marines will do what it takes to complete the mission. But not throw their lives away willy-nilly. And would not commit war crimes for a minor gain, or solve an inconvenience.
Its one thing have dedicated soldiers. But its another thing having soldiers like the Clones or the Death Korps of Krieg.
Didn't think "good soldiers follow orders" had a much worse meaning than trying to resist following order 66.
You discuss the zeal and discipline that the clones take to completing their missions and describe it as horrifying, but how is that really any different than the countless other last stands, both irl and in-universe across other factions? Is it any less noble or heroic if it’s someone like a Jedi who sacrifices themselves to finish a mission, knowing that they would die because of it, but completing it all the same? They would have been taught similar philosophies of self sacrifice for the greater good too. We describe such things as incredibly brave or noble, yet you also classify actions such as that of the clones being awful and a terrible waste. What separates the two, exactly, and where does one draw the line between noble self sacrifice and horrific suicide? *Is* there even a difference, or is it all just down to a difference in perspective? And because you lose a war or find out that the cause you were fighting for was either twisted or a lie, does that invalidate that sacrifice? Is it really all for ‘nothing?’ While it’s out of the confines of this video, I would’ve loved to hear you expand on some of this type of thinking.
The difference here between a Jedi sacrificing themselves and a clone doing it is that the clones were in essence programmed to do it. All of them. A sacrifice is in my opinion at least only noble when it's needed, clones will sacrifice themselves quite readily in a lot of cases. It comes down to the clones doing this when they don't need to as much as anything else. It becomes a waste when there are other less costly ways to complete the task at hand, as they are at that point just wasting their lives needlessly
Lucas nerfed the droids hard. Combination of things usually explained as corporate prioritisation of ‘doing it on the cheap-cheap’.
Meanwhile during the times of the Old Republic era with __War droids__…
It's so sad that so many people died for a fake war.
At this point, I failed to see the different between the Kaminoans in Star Wars and the Marleyans in Attack on Titan. Why? Because they are all nothing but dolphins!
Watched your vids for years now. I need to know wtf a geetsly is!!!
Awesome videos man!
I'm playing a lawful evil paladin who I based heavily on the clone idea of Just meat for the grinder. However I was given a order that is going to break him I have to murder two other soilders for the crime of being assigned to escort us
So this explains why the clones used Nepoleonic tactics early on in the war.
All this seems familiar to the Death Korps of Krieg and their tactics, indoctrination, and thought process. Only the Death Korps has superior reasons behind these characteristics, and better drip.
I agree the death korps of kreig will give the Galactic Marines the run for their money
Clones don’t have a crippling shovel obsession
Neither do deathkorps, that's a meme that had no basis in lore.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 Have you read their lore? Commisars are there to keep them from unnecessarily throwing their lives away for no gain, like the Jedi do. Outside force sent to keep the suicidal soldiers from killing themselves. Yeah, they're Death Korps alright.
@@akumaking1 Which makes them worse.
If you had me say something to create a doctrine for an army of my own in any universe, never mind Star Wars, it'd be one of the internet rules of gunfighting:
In ten years, nobody will care about caliber, stance or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
If you let me I'd have etched the whole rules list into every clone brain case and been rewarded with a terrifying army of pathological cheaters who have fallback plans on top of fallback plans and are the first step to de-escalation after a fight's been decisively won. That's an army worth trusting a real republic with.
suicidally loyal clones are particularly advantageous to the Kaminoans because it means another clone that will need to be replaced ensuring the Kaminoans future business.
Could be worse, they could be Imperial Guard
Honestly that quote “good soldiers follows orders”, I would think German soldiers probably told themselves that during world war 2 or at least something similar to it.
I’m not sure it’s quite the same in this context. Regarding the Germans, that was only a defence when they lost and an opposing culture with opposing values was holding them accountable for their actions. I’m not sure they cared much in the moment.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 not every soilder supported the ideals of the 3rd Reich. Some were American born but forced home by there families. Ie. See band of brothers
Jedi: Execute Order 99
Clones: Good Soldiers think for themselves
Can you do battle droid vs clone trooper vs variant, for example arc troopers vs commando droids or droideka vs jet troopers and vulture droid vs clone starships
Where the heck did you get that incredible thumbnail with the bomb squad from? 😳
You know I just noticed the parallels to the clone army and the Japanese navy, that's another ww2 and Japanese correlation
The clone army’s looking more like the Death Korps of Krieg now
The combat doctrines of the Clone Army is incredibly ineffective, especially given their limited numbers and the lethality of combat in Star Wars. Granted, a decent portion of this can be excused due to the heavy influence of World War II combat footage on Star Wars. However, if we look entirely within the context of the universe itself, the battle doctrines of the GAR are entirely ineffective.
Simply put, there are not enough clones to support a suicidal banzai assault against CIS positions. Such things work for battle droids because they are cheap. A B-1 battle droid costs maybe 1,800 credits to manufacture and can be built in minutes while a Clone Trooper requires 10 years and hundreds of thousands of credits to raise, train, and equip. For the cost of a single Clone Trooper, the CIS could build 190 B-1 Battle Droids. Even at their best, GAR to CIS kill to loss rates were 1 Clone for every 50 Battle Droids. For something that costs almost 200 times more than a B-1, every dead clone is a net win for the CIS, even if they lose the battle.
In truth, the GAR very much should have been optimized for small unit, dispersed operations with heavily integrated support from indirect and direct fires, starfighters, and orbiting starships. The primary advantage of the clone troopers is their greater skill and independence and those things should have been prioritized. You can even keep the Clones focus on the mission but suicidaly and dogmatically sticking to Plan A even when that plan has been fragged to hell and gone is a waste of resources the Republic and Palpatine didn't have. The only reason Palpatine's plans didn't unravel on him by accident is because he had Dooku pulling the strings of the CIS. A couple things go wrong in the First Battle of Geonosis, Dooku winds up dead, and Grievous gets a free hand of the Droid Army, resulting in the GAR being wiped out within the year in a series of attritional slogs that they don't have the manpower for.
One way of getting around the Napoleonic and medieval tactics depicted in the films and shows, that some fans do is head canoning or rationalizing how scenarios may semi logically play out.
Star Wars has little in the form of logic though. It is more about visual spectacle and being a proverbial sandbox within a Space Fantasy setting for people to have nonsense adventures. Although it does take many references from real world events and visually paraphrases, inferences, references, and hyperbolizes them to an extent.
Regarding Geonosis though...
The Clone Troopers were mere minutes from landing on the surface of Geonosis via their Acclamator transport ships, and were still in their march orders. Most were already coming off the ramps by the time the Droids were already on the counter attack. As we can see in the movie, many Acclamators landed pretty closely to the Geonosian Arena. At around the same time Droid formations not currently packed onto their own transport ships, were used to hold the Clones back alongside the Geonosian Army. Thus we get the open field meeting engagement as seen in Attack of the Clones. The Droids seen were nothing more than an expendable wall of metal so that the primary forces and major assets most vital to the Separatist cause could escape.
If the Separatists cannot organize their vast numbers effectively, then the Republic gets more room to maneuver and more time to prepare a greater assault or a steadfast defence.
The Grand Army of the Republic is more like a Shield than a Hammer. It is meant to be the proverbial Anvil meant to take the hits from the Droid Army's Hammer. So the Scalpel and the Spear of the Commando Jedi strike forces can hit the more valuable targets.
Hence, the main Clone Army itself was nothing more than an attention grabber : functionally presenting itself as a target that is too big even for a mass like the Droid's to ignore.
Well, this was the point of Clones. Droids vs. replicants. Winner becomes the Empire's army template. Also with the Jedi forced to be generals and leaders they were not we have dehumanizing, as in PTSD, etc stuff coming in, Jedi failing their connection to the force and so on. Jedi downfall. If Jedi led the droids there wouldn't have been mental issues for them.
"Good soldiers follow orders" just got a lot darker...
This is why I dislike their reveal/retcon that brain chips were needed for the clones to execute Order 66.
We have here a bred and trained from birth soldier. Trained to be an expendable soldier, and not necessarily honorable warriors.
They don't need coercion, when their supreme command orders them to assassinate their generals, years of indoctrination will make it automatic.
----
On a similar manner, I dislike that Commander Rex left Vader. His place is by Vader's side. They fought together and forged a bond. Vader represented order and loyalty to the Galactic Government, something I would have thought Rex, being a clone commander would have vibed with.
------
The clones were supposed to be a commentary on having a ruthless and efficient army. They are very effective, but they become dangerous to the public if wielded by the wrong person.
Fighting to the death is not killing yourself
men think for themselves. soldiers let their leader do the thinking. we have a lot more soldiers than men.
Basically Krieg Guardsman of Star Wars
You've gotta take into account the fact that these "Clones" are, in point of fact, nothing less than Space Maori's ... Let that sink in ... KIORA, my brethren from the other side of the ditch!!
Anyone know which book the kaminoan quote comes from? And the bly excerpt?
suicidal clones?
you mean thats why that 212th punched that doid in the faceplate?
When you sign up you sign up there is no grey only what has to be done.
The clones would love the death korps of kreig
The Senate’s doctrine is pure glory.