He did not address any possible causes of the initial shutdown. But no one is... One source suggested contaminated fuel but that's neither been confirmed or explained how that could cause everything to shut down simultaneously. The way it stands, without knowing the cause of the shutdown liability cannot be determined.
Gosh yes, if a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ships electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that these Ships electronic Autopilot will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Auto pilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or currant variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proves The HUMAN FINGER PRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard turned to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneaking on board and over powering the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and Captain and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
@@geoffreytoomey682the crew was escorted to Walmart before departure , leaving the whole ship alone with no security to my knowledge. Any terrorist or slime bag could have plenty of time to get on board and set up a path of destruction electronically. Word is though that this tub should never have been loaded let alone allowed to set sail. Multiple power failures and shorts happening while in port and no reports of everything being fixed appropriately. I’d sure like to hear the coast guards take on the investigation.
People forget, technology isn’t perfect, technology can fail, we tend to get too comfortable with it sometimes. And no matter how many different safety features are in place, it can still fail, that’s just the way it is.
I knew nothing about cargo ships before this unfortunate incident, and one thing I’ve learned watching countless hours of these videos is to appreciate how such dedicated and knowledgeable professionals like yourself are involved.
And always take it with a grain of salt. Use critical thinking and confirm from other credible sources. Because even though a person might be a specialist, master in their field with dozens of years of experience, they might misrepresent things because there is a hidden agenda, a motivation guiding their statements. - go to any car dealership and they will BS their way into selling a new car to a person that went for an oil change wth a perfectly good car, but the person is a simple person of the mind. - scamdemic19 also another good example of manipulation using the specialists to lie and deceive the masses to instill a false narrative - politicians, expert liars, specialists in their field of deceiving...well they get it right because they deceive and scam the citizens.
@@roberts.wilson1848 lol, chief engineer with literally years of content on the topic makes no BS 6min video on exactly how steering works on a big ship and you cry "do your own research" !! 🤣 simple question.... if u won't accept this.... what will u accept???
I'm here after Sal Mercogliano suggested your channel. Thanks for making the time to make these super-informative videos that address the very heart of the issues at hand. While information like this is fantastic we still don't know specifics and likely won't for some time. Two plus years for the report on the Evergiven... But with input like yours - SO specific to the tragic event you help teach us enough to understand. I'm so tired of the conspiracy theorists and those who think it's 'extraterrestrials. Thank you Chief.
No one thinks it was exterestials.....everyone thinks it was another 9/11 inside job to increase the price of everything and price gouge the surf.....pretty much everyone knows there was something fishy about 9/11....if you don't, then you are part of the 10% stupid people who have zero critical thinking skills after examining dozenss of hours of information.....even if 5% is real....ITS ENOUGH FOR EVEN THW DUMBEST PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT
Content like this is the reason the internet was invented❤ super knowledgable person sharing his expertise on the tropic we would otherwise never get grip. Thank you for making us smarter 😊
Al Gore and his Clinton over-lords think it was invented to spy on us all. In hindsight they may not have been lyin... Funny how the Marxist left had all sorts of "capital" to invent all of these High-tech surveillance companies....
@@heartobefelt Just because you have power doesn't mean you win the battle of physics. 110 Dead tons doesn't stop on a dime especially with ~8-8.5 kts (10mph/16kph) already on it and those engines still need to stop the ship and turn it.
Multiply redundant systems still have an Achilles Heel - the switchboard. I worked in an international computer centre. Everything had backups and the backups had backups. If the power went out we had three diesel generators that kicked in. A contractor working in the switchroom made a mistake, shorted the main incomers and the subsequent destruction took out the changeover switch so that it couldn't select either the city mains nor the diesels. Shit happens.
Some system uses air flash tanks to power the steering....and a third back up. The other option is EPC battery to power the hydraulic pumps for ten to 15 minutes. Hopefully, the politicians don't pass new regulation.
@@rgloria40 Well if they pass one that says "keep someone near the engine room at all times." than you get no objections from me as if the only other way to steer the ship is all the way down here then yeah maybe not a bad idea. Sure, that would suck for the person with that job, but we did have someone who regularly worked in the engine room in the past before everything became automated with built-in redundancies.
Gee, that sounds familiar. Wasn’t me but we were doing a UPS generator test and we tried to go back to grid power without verifying it was switched on. Oops.
Yeah this is my current theory, I'm no expert on the matter of course but after seeing what happened on the ship and how many times the ship lost power yeah this seems a very likely case.
I was on cruisers and destroyers, we had similar safety’s and backups like you showed. We also had people manned in aft steering (same place your in) during any restricted maneuvering, like leaving a port, going through channels. We also had brief’s before going into a restricted maneuvering event and every person would talk through what actions they would take during each situation that could happen.
Completely different worlds between military (where personnel redundancy for mission completion is paramount) and commercial (where reduced manning to maximize corporate profits is paramount). Each are not affordable from different societal standpoints.
I'm a master helmsman with years of experience. After trying things out in the Nautis simulator, I think what happened is it took around a minute for backup power to come online, at which point they likely got steering back at least briefly until the second power outage happened, but by then it was too late. Two forces were at work over the course of that minute that caused the ship to turn rapidly to starboard. The ship was transiting near the port side of the channel, and bank suction caused the rear of the ship to pull toward the port channel bank and it also pushed the bow to starboard. At the same time, the ship was hit with a cross channel current coming from the starboard rear quarter, further driving the rear of the ship to port and the bow to starboard, inducing a rapid turning of the ship to starboard. Even if they got steering back after one minute and put the rudder hard to port, the momentum induced by a full minute of turning forces without rudder input to compensate ended up causing the swing to starboard we see. Once a ship builds a turning momentum, it takes a long time to stop the turn momentum and get the ship coming back the opposite direction. If the helmsman had been making a course correction to starboard when the power went out, and the rudder also got locked to starboard by 10 degrees or so for a full minute on top of that, it would make it just about impossible for the ship to recover in time to avoid the peer, even if they got rudder control back the moment the emergency generators kicked on.
It's looking more and more like that. The crew was doing everything they could. It's just the bridge got in the way of recovering the ship after its power failures.
What about the giant cloud of black smoke after the first power outage. The way I understand it, since this ship was built in roughly 2015, the main engine most likely had hydraulically powered fuel injectors and exhaust valves, and in the case of a total shipwide blackout, the main engine would have stopped nearly immediately due to no exhaust valves opening, and complete fuel cutoff. I think what happened was, there was a power outage, they managed to start the main engine in reverse, then panicked and put the main engine in full speed reverse. SInce electronically controlled engines have no camshaft, there's no delay in waiting a few seconds to move the camshaft from Ahead to Reverse. If the main engine is stopped, it can be started in reverse, and then in an emergency, commanded to run at max speed. Since it was already running, there's no need for a blow down, or prelube or anything like that. With a single screw ship, with a single rudder, and moving at only 8.5 knots, the rudder will lose a ton of effectiveness due to the immense amount of cavitation, and lack of water flowing past the rudder. Like others have said, using bow thrusters at speeds over 2-3 knots is useless, and consume far too much electricity to be able to run off of an emergency switchboard. Here's what I think happened. Several or more reefer containers shorted out, or the cables supplying 480v 3 phase power to the reefer section shorted out caught fire, and tripped the main generator. Instead of letting the automatic system start and run the emergency set, they quickly shut off the tripped breakers and started the other set of main generators, all ships have at least 2-3 or more main generator sets, most often there are 3. One running, one also running in parallel during heavy load operations or during arrival departure from ports or other critical situations, and one in hot standby or in maintenance. Then when they switched that main genset back onto the main bus, and flipped back on power to the reefer containers, it caused another short and either damaged something, or tripped breakers. They must have done this before the emergency generator switched on, sometimes they have a time delay so that the emergency set won't start up in case of a momentary blackout like what happens when you disconnect from shore power, and switch to onboard MDG's there's a momentary blackout. So this explains the first lights out on the Dali, followed by a longish delay lights come back on for 1/2 a minute then go back out. Now with no main generators available to start in time, the emergency set finally starts and runs after 30 seconds or so, you see the lights come back on the Dali, but not the main mast light and a few others, and then you see the bow begin to steer to the starboard, but it's too late and the ship hits the bridge 10-20 seconds after the bow finally begins to steer away from the bridge pylon. There's rumors they were having electrical problems while in port. If this is true, they were idiots for leaving the dock. You would think that if you were about to take a ship on a 26 day long voyage down thru the Panama Canal, you would want to stay in Baltimore and have any generator or electrical issues sorted before leaving the dock. Number 1 reason would be for obvious safety reasons, a fire on board a box ship is a complete nightmare, 2nd of all, you would want to make sure you have reliable electrical supply to any refrigerated boxes. 26 days with no refrigeration is going to cost a lot of money in freight damages. 3rd, if you're planning on going thru the Panama Canal, there's a high risk of getting inspected before you're allowed to enter the first lock, because the Canal is very paranoid right now after that issue with the Evergreen ship stuck in the Suez Canal. No Canal authority is going to even take the slightest chance you're going to break down in the canal, if your ship looks like crap, you can either get detained, or sent the long way around. Good luck with that with todays high fuel prices, and you'll be late for your delivery appointment.
The current was pretty low at that time, the tides there are only around 2 feet, and they were only about 2 hours away from slack tides. However there was a slight wind to the south, and the Dali with that many boxes has a pretty good sail effect especially if the main engine stops, and combined with the effect of prop drag. So it's quite possible the slight current coming from the south channel pushing against the stern of the ship, plus the wind from the north, plus the drag in the water from the stopped propeller could have started the ship drifting to starboard. I think this whole thing is goiing to turn out to be a classic swiss cheese failure. Human error combined with mechanical failure(s), plus lack of maintenance. Unfortunately they took too many chances, and this time all the holes in the cheese lined up, and 6 people lost their lives.
Because the ship was in a very hazardous area, it seems the anchor should have been dropped as soon as power was lost. Too risky to just wait and hope for power to return. That would have more than doubled the time to slow down until impact, four minutes instead of less than two.
Many years ago when I was a (deck) cadet, I was working on a Valdez trade oil tanker. This vessel utilized a pair of Automatic Bus Transfer Switches to handle whether main or emergency power ran the steering gear. Part of pre departure checklist was to run the self test. Well, one time, something goes wrong in one of the switches, and it “blows up” (guessing an arc of some sort) and blows the door off. 2/E was standing about 6 feet away. Big, slow spoken southern gentleman. At dinner that night he said, “well, I haven’t been that scared in years.” And nothing else about the event.
Many thanks for this discussion of all the reduncancy. Back in the late 1960s, I worked at an FPS-16 radar site at Eglin AFB that tracked the spacecraft for the Mercury and Gemini programs. I was there for the last two Gemini missions. For reentry in the Atlantic, the track from our radar was vital. To make sure nothing went down, we went to diesel generators for power. If they failed, we could switch back to commercial power much faster than a diesel could start up. Also, because the radars were designed to track missiles, they had a battle short mode that disabled much of the protective circuitry. The radar would work until something caught fire or melted. For reentry the radar went into battle short. That radar would stay up come what may.
Old engineer, saying thats a good presentation. I preferred sailing as Chief Electrician, and have a hard time explaining to people that have never seen a ship, what happened. If you've sailed long enough, you know what happens. Subscribed, just to let them see it. Thanks!
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
You are a planted government agent and you know it. Given all your inside knowledge you have a mission to plant seeds of doubt in a propaganda smear. You are trying to change public perception in order to furher the government justification for war in isreal and beyond. Furthermore your youtube handle can .e traced to a .cia.gov email address. YOU ARE BUSTED!!!@geoffreytoomey682
I'm here from Sal's channel. Thanks for the great (while brief) explanation. I'm sure you could spend hours on this topic! I worked in an industry that also required lots of redundancy, so your explanation makes a lot of sense. Obviously for the Dali, there are still a lot of questions that only an official report will answer. (Subscribed)
I spent 40+ years at sea as an Engineer Officer in the British Merchant Navy, with around 30 as a Ch/Eng and, without knowing the ins and outs, I can say that the ship that hit the bridge had more than one thing go wrong at the same time, i.e, there was a cascade effect of multiple issues. On the older ships that I sailed on, together with the hand controls and redundancy mentioned in this video we also had emergency "hand steering" with a ships wheel down aft above the poop house. This was ALWAYS tested prior to departure from any port and also every week while on passage, with these tests being recorded in the official ship's log book.
Similar experience but for the ‘grey funnel line’ in addition we had a Hail Mary system where when all was lost we could use a f’n big hand pump to hand steer - needed two guys to pump it, very physical and could only do it for 5 minutes maximum. It was normally done to centre the rudder but just for shits and giggles was exercised for steering a course but then the manpower required multiplied to extend the 5 minutes human endurance.😉
Sailed 12 years US merchant marine as deck officer. USCG requires the emergency "hand steering" test every 3 months. The steering tests prior to arrival/departure are simply done by the bridge to make sure the rudder is in good order. These are different tests.
Very well done! Too many uninformed opinions and/or conspiracy theories being spread about this terrible tragedy. Great to hear a seasoned pro explain the complexity, redundancy and safeguards that are in place. Blessing and Prayers to the families who have lost loved ones, and to all who have and continue to suffer from this sad event. Pray also for the safety of the salvage crews who must now clear the debris and recover those lost.
Yea because corruption and warfare doesn't exist. The term conspiracy theory was pushed by the CIA so no one would question anything and here you are using it. When no one knows what happened you don't just rule things out just because you heard on CNN that every bad thing you hear is a conspiracy theory. That's stupid.
Never thought id watch a video on how THESE work and actually enjoyed learning about it. Now, when the "official " report comes out, we can make a more informed decision on whether or not to believe them.
SOLAS and US regulations require the E-Gen to take emergency load within 45 seconds. Most ships are engineered to have the E-Gen light off and take the emergency load faster than the regulations.
And the Dali's emergency generator took 59 seconds. But as I read in other comments, that 14 seconds would change much: negating the huge drift would be quite hard if even possible.
thank you very much to explain this to the public Sir. This is what I have tried to explain on several channels as I have intalled and built some of these steering mechanismens 15 years ago on containerships built in Denmark. However it is satisfying to see someone educate the public as I have been made as a fool due to my comments on other channels. I have decided not to make any more comments on youtube due to the condescension of my personallity. Again thank you very much Mr Chief Engineer may God bless you to never experience the worst scenario ever. Best regards from former hydraulic engineer and hydraulic component producer.
no need to take youtube comments personal. The web has mentally ill people crawling around youtube making negative comments trying to get a rise out of people for their own twisted anusement .
If some stranger insults you simply for having actual information that contradicts their fantasy, the kindest thing you can do is to let them rant without internalizing.
Bud you make any comment you want.People if you can call them that are a bunch of loosers that has to try to make everyone around look dumb so they can look smarter.Don't pay attention to trolls and idiots.
Retired river engineer here, thanks for the rundown on ships equipment. What we had for steering on newer boats is similar, but this is different enough that I appreciate the information from the person who deals with it. Thanks!
Your explanations are very enlightening. I do not understand with all of the government entities involved in this disaster why none of them or even the media hasn't provided this information to the America people. The internet is full of opinions and zero facts. Nobody seems too care about informing the public. You sir have done an incredible job of informing the public and it is a shame that no one in public service has taken the time to inform the public. Thank you for your unsolicited, but, extremely helpful info. Keep up the great work.
"Zero facts'?! The abundance of facts i've learned about shipping last week ALL came from the internet. Ok, not from 'news' sources, but only stupid people still think that facts come from media in stead of professionals in the field.
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Absolutely not true. His license does not entitle him to work in the deck department. Next in line, for instance if the captain is incapacitated, is the Chief Mate (1st Officer).
As a former US licensed Chief Engineer, I can truthfully state your statement is false. If the Captain is incapacitated, the 1st Mate assume command. The Chief Engineer is NOT licensed for a deck rating and cannot become a captain.
I work in a powerplant, we are set up similar with all of the redundant systems. We have our normal feeds, our back up feeds, emergency generator feeds, & then battery backups that feed inverters. Worst case scenario, we still have constant power to our vital systems. I found it hard to believe that steering on a ship that big wouldn’t have something similar…
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never accidentally turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several Diesel Generators that the ship's electronic Autopilot controls to the Diesel motors controlling the Hydraulic rams to the Rudder and will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Sal recommended you so Ive now subscribed. Thanks for the review of the ships steering. Gotta check out more of your videos. I'm a steam locomotive engineer but also have steam experience in steam powered Canadian Naval ships... John L Victoria BC Canada
Your explanations are very enlightening. You sir have done an incredible job of informing the public, and it is a shame that no one in public service has taken the time to inform the public. Thank you for your unsolicited, but, extremely helpful info.
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Thank you chief. Excelent, and ashamed to acknowledge, as a retired navigator, I should have known more about the steering system. The conclussion I'm drawing from yours (and others) video, is that vital information is missing. Regardless thanks for the education. Steering systems are designed NOT to fail.
I was the electrician on a large ocean going vessel and I always tested the E-generators once per month, under load. We often used fire pumps etc.. to load up the E-buss. What you're saying makes perfect sense. Big thing is, the whole crew has to be trained on what to do. We had those drills monthly. We did that and evaluated everyone's performance in an emergency to assess whether they needed more training or what ever. Safety first !
I got a question for you. Is it remotely possible (Imaginable) that someone could board the vessel sometime prior to departure and hack something/ anything in such a way as to effect control? Just curious? Thanks for your reply. 👍
@@kickingagainstthepricks4059 It would be trivial to do something that would cause big problems. For example, on the front of many large breakers there is a dial where you can set the trip, You could turn that dial in about 5 seconds and no one would know but the breaker would trip well before it was supposed to trip, shutting down the engines or power. Hundreds of other things you could do if you had the knowledge. On the mechanical side you could turn the fuel off to the generator, unplug a sensor, disconnect the throttle linkage. 10 seconds, in and out, no one would know. Not only but the controls are all electronic. A virus or script could easily be triggered and command what ever you wanted to command such as rudder full right. I've seen many critical systems that run on Windows and even DOS.
The problem is that training is not a priority. I think that's mostly because the people responsible for training are either, incompetent or untrained themselves, lazy, or lnow what is going on but don't have the ability to teach others. I was on the SSn Alpena and My chief and first assistant were assholes. You should have seen the fire drills. They were a joke. It's the same way on all the other boats too. I was a cadet on the State of Michigan, the SS Cason Calloway and a Third AE on a Maersk Container ship before working on the Alpena. I can tell you right now, every ship that sinks or is in some disaster the NTSB report ALWAYS list lack of maintenance and lack of crew training as reasons for the mishap. It will never change. Greed, laziness, ego and stupidity are too strong to overcome.
Great explanation, even with redundancy it still takes time. Chief Makoy (YT) a chief engineer on a bulk ship and is always showing how things work on his ship. Including emergency drills, maintenance and life aboard. People doing important jobs, unknown and unseen that keep our world together. Thanks.
Great video! It was hard to find a video with someone that actually knows about this stuff. I wasn’t thinking conspiracy at all. just wanted to understand how these things work. And why it turned suddenly turned so sharp. I was assuming the perspective might have made it look… more drastic than it was
Just before I watched this very informative video i watched the video of the immense engine of a container ship. Talk about immense engineering. The size of the yoke connecting the rudder post to the hydraulic rams indicates the magnitude of the forces needed. Amazing!
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I think the problem in this instance was not that they had no control of the rudder, but that they went astern when they got the main engine back. That most likely would have blanked the rudder, making it ineffective. Then the paddle wheel effect (prop walk) takes effect which would turn the ship.
@@greenernick NTSB website "latest news" only has something from March 12 related to 737 door plugs. And typically they are quite tight-lipped until the investigation is wrapping (wrapped) up. Did you see some kind of press conference, or might your impression be based on a source other than NTSB?
Thank you, your explanation as to ships steering gear and it's backups systems was very informative. I've never been around large vessels other than viewing from afar.
And the Dali's house is even farther forward than the one on your ship. Failures in the rudder control room and emergency generator room would have been a long trip for any seaman to make. Another great educational video. Thank you.
Thank you sir for your fine description of the operation of steering on a container vessel, you are by far more informative than every news feed i have seen so far!
A great explanation of how the system works. On the small ship I was Captain of, we had electrical, hydraulic and manual (winch and pulley blocks) if anything went south. So even if we lost the main engine, standby and backup gensets, we could still steer the ship. Manual steering with the pulleys was damned hard work (we practiced a couple of times) but we could still steer.
Thank you for this explanation Chief!! I’m a senior field service engineer for a major thruster company and I’ve commissioned 100’s of vessels. You are 1000% correct! There are main and backup steering and speed controls from the bridge, from the engine control room, from the thruster switchboxes, and manually from the hydraulic tanks… and last resort from the thruster itself with a large ratchet if need be. Now, granted this is a rudder system not a thruster… but exact same concept. ALL vessels have several backups for steering and speed for these exact scenarios. They’re tested periodically by ABS and crews train often to use all the controls in emergencies so they can respond quickly. 👊 Respect!
Thank you SOOO much! That was clear, concise and easy to understand. And thanks to your employer for allowing you to show your ship in such detail. You have a very cool job that most of us who buy lots of stuff that was shipped across oceans think about too little. Thanks for all that you do to make our lives better.
You are a valuable resource. My familiarity with operating on oceans is limited to Captain Aubrey novels, but I do know that when stuff goes bad, it has a tendency to go bad in catastrophic fashion.
Top video Chiefy. The distance from the ECR to the steering flat is a serious consideration with these bigger box boats. It’d be great to do a video on an emergency steering drill.
Old US Navy Tin-Can "Snipe" here. THANKS, Chief! I was wondering about all of this and any differences in redundancy that we had compared to ships like the Dali. = It sure seems that the more REAL INFORMATION we get from folks like you, the more QUESTIONS we have that deserve answers.
Great video and amazing engineering design with safety first. This is why it is so hard for me to believe a ship ever took out a bridge, and it speaks to a bigger electrical problem.
I was on a aircraft carrier in the 80's. We called that space after steering. We had 2 rudders and an after steering for each. There was an engineer and a helmsman down there 24/7. The helmsman could drive the ship while talking with the bridge.
When I was aboard USS Ranger Cv 61 , I was a phone talker in Dc Central . 1 of the daily drills between 0000+0400 was to turn off the stearing cable ,to see how long it took for some one to notice All it took was a simple flip of a switch . To restore flipping the other switch . Only done in open ocean.
@@henrycarlson7514 yep, I was a Quartermaster and master helmsman. Every sea and anchor detail was a busy time for us. By the way, I was on USS Saratoga CV 60.
@@henrycarlson7514 Yes! If I recall we didn't know it was a test until after we took control down there. The mid watch was the worst. I think we all dosed off once or twice, but there were some who would intentionally go to sleep on watch.
Thank you very much for this informative video! I knew absolutely nothing about any of the workings of these ships prior to watching this. Now I have an understanding of how alot of this works! You're very professional and dedicated to your profession. This is not a job til something else comes along. This is a monumental career!
Thanks for the very detailed presentation! It seems like the issue wasn’t that they lost steering control but that they unfortunately immediately went full power astern after the first outage, which swung the tail of the ship in the wrong direction and defeated the action of the rudder.
I am surprised that emergency power takes so long to kick on. I have installed two emergency generators in Hospitals and you could barely see the lights flicker before generators came on. Thank you for great explanation.
Hospitals have huge battery banks where the power comes from when the power goes out. They only need to last until the Generator kicks in, it still takes up to 20-30 seconds for the Generator to start up and start producing power.
He doesn't mean it takes 30 seconds for the generators to start, maybe only a few seconds to start. But they also have to ramp up, sync up with each other, and then the appropriate emergency switchgear breakers need to operate, all controlled by microprosser. These things take a little time, also there is some intentional delay built into each of those steps for safety of the system.
Thinking similar. We had to 'load test' our emergency diesels (land-based power plant) monthly (or more if they failed the monthly). They had to start, close in and be carrying the loads in < 10 seconds to pass. Mind you, these were the old EMD v16's and had prelub running on them all the time.
The main switchboard is supposed to start (if necessary) and synch a main generator onto the main bus in 10-15 seconds depending on what's running and how much load. The E-gen is supposed to be the backup in case the msbd blackout recovery fails.
Thanks Chief for your explanation, it helps so many who are not snipes. I’m not sure you explain how the emergency panel (buss that supplies all things critical including the port steering motor) has an “automatic” buss transfer that switches supply power from the normal generators to the emergency generator without operator intervention. Also that the port steering motor is a LVR style controller that also automatically restarts the port steering motor as soon as power is available. Many thanks!
There is automation in the switchboards. Most Main Switchboards have a Power Management System, that starts a next main generator when the load on the running generator(s) approaches 80%, and stops a generator when load has dropped below a certain value such that it is safe to do so. This is all automated. Not all ships have this, but WHEN they have it, it is always possible to manually override, or disable the stopping function. This means the Main Switchboard should under normal circumstances maintains power in a safe and efficient way. For manouvering conditions, the PMS is manually set in the mode where generators come on when needed, but do NOT switch off once connected to the MSB. IF there is a technical or mechanical problem and (one or all of) the online generators shut down, this PMS system WILL attempt to start any and all availlable main generators and connect them to the main switchboard, and it will do so without time delay, but this starting sequence might take 5~10 seconds. They ar big engines, they don't respond as fast as a car engine :D As soon as the ESB detects a black-out, it initially will do nothing for about 10~15 seconds, this is to give the Main Switchboard time to first try to restore power on its own, because main generators, if availlable, are preferrable over emergency power, and you don't want emergency systems activating on first whim. After all, they ar emergency systems and cannot perform identical to the main systems. So if possible... If MSB power is not restored within that time, the Emergency Switchboard (ESB) will first disconnect from the MSB, and simultaneously the Emergency Generator is being started. As soon as that Emergency Generator has operating speed and voltage, it will be connected to the ESB. The ESB now is a stand-alone powergrid, and on most ships will remain in that status, regardless of MSB power returning or not. These two powergrids can run side by side for as long as there is fuel in the emergency generator's tank, and the two grids won't affect or influence each other. On some ships, the Emergency generator automatically resets to standby mode when MSB power is restored, most ships however (at least the ones I worked on) needed a manual reset to normal operation again. Steering gear pumps are (I have NEVER seen otherwise) fitted with position switches instead of pushbuttons for starting and stopping. This means that in case of a power outage those switches rmain in the on position and the steering motors restart as soon as power comes back on.
@@rigididiot I agree with all you added. Thanks for contributing to the thread. I guess we will all have to wait to hear why power was loss, why steering was not restored, and how the operators and main engine responded to ordered bells. Thank you.
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
I run smaller ships so I don't know if its different for some reason on your vessels but with NFU steering we still have the rudder angle indicator operational. It would be almost impossible to steer in that mode without it. I have a lot of respect for my engineers. The complexity of their jobs is incredible. Great video.
do they use a rotary shaft encoder to transmit the rudder position to Helm or is it something more old school ? i am guessing there must be at least 2 systems ?
@@heartobefelt Not sure what a rotary shaft encoder is but I believe the RAI signal, however it is transmitted, is totally independent of the steering system.
@@kayakdog121That would make sense, as in a stepper motor, servo motor, or even PWM cooling fan controller. They are a separate feed back system often some form of magnetic induction pulses (or light reflection etc.) that a controller can calculate actual vs demand position of a system. It's separate and distinct from the motor or hydraulic system itself. Just a guess based on similar systems where angular position, steering is used as part of a feed back design.
Cheers for the tour and explanations. There's some brilliant thinking that goes in to designing these systems. Having wiring on either side in case of a collision was not something I knew about, common sense to blokes like you, but to me that's very smart thinking.
Nice to hear it "straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I'm a concrete guy for almost 30 years so zero ship/boat experience here. Thanx for putting it in "Layman's terms", I'm sure you could have gotten very technical, but you saved that for the "suits".
Thank you for this indepth look at the power systems and redundancies involved with containerships. Obviously there is a lot that no one knows at this point and I hope the NTSB determines exactly what happened. Thank you again.
Modern ships have an abundant amount of data logging. The NTSB does excellent work. You can go to their website and read some of their published incident reports. It will give you a good perspective of what they are looking for and what information is available to them. www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MIR2404.pdf
On a differemt RUclips channel, it was stated that the Dali left the quay side and sailed WITH the outgoing tide. Long ago, I remember a ships' pilot telling me that a ship never sailed with the tide, always AGAINST the INCOMING tide. The reason being that in a narrow navigation channel, steerage could be maintained against the tide and the ship was by far more manoeuverable. Another aspect which has not been discussed is the effect of varying local currents affecting the passage through the channel and under Francis Scott Bridge. Did this also impact on the unexpected track taken into the bridge pier?
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Many thanks for putting this information out, it was very interesting to see how these large ships get about. I have a narrow boat which obviously has nothing in comparison to a large ship but I do appreciate the skill involved in handling these mammoths of the see which we all depend on. Please pass my thanks on to all the crew keeping these ships safely afloat very much appreciated.
you're like Mr Scott from Star Trek ! thanks for the walk thru, I know nothing about ships or engineering , but I understood everything you explained, well done sir !
Not really we all can see the lights go out indicating power was lost to 1 steering motor. What I don’t know is if the emergency generator came online to power the other motor
Thanks for your time and effort, both tgg h e video & honing your craft. I can tell you don’t sit around playing games on your phone like most of the younger generation does. Keep up the good work 👍🏻
How is fuel distributed? Do all fuel serviced items share the same fuel source? Do the emergency gen sets have a dedicated fuel source. What type of fuel issues could cause failure of all diesel powered units, ie contamination, pump failure. Excellent presentation on the emergency backups. Sal sent me here, and I'll be a new subscriber.
Good question. im a ship engine officer myself and il try to explain it simple il number it 1 and and so on from start to finish. 1.Storage tank Heavy fuel oil or Diesel 2. Pumped through a rough filter into a temporarly storage tank for Sepearation. 3. Fuel is pumped from seperation tank though a seperator to remove water dirt and such alfa laval makes those. 4.Fuel is pumped into day tank. 5. Fuel is pumped by pump from day tank to main engines or generators Throught 1-2 filters all filters have redundancy filters if pressure drops. emergency generators usually have tottaly independent fuel supply and might not even need electricity to keep running. Depending on the size of the engine it is started with air or batteries lets say a Mack size truck engine generator would be started with electricity and sometimes double the size also. But inline 8 cylinder 10 thousand horsepower to 100k plus main engines is started with air. Heavy fuel oil must be Warmed to 45-60 degrees Celsius just to become liquid so that is also something to think of Heavy fuel oil that most ships use is almost like Asphalt Bitumen.
@@Infernal_Elf It depends a bit on the engine, but the last MAN B&W crosshead engines I worked with (built in '96 IIRC) according to manual in case of emergency were able to start on a 700 cSt fuel with the entire engineroom including fuel systems cooled down to 20 degrees C, provided RPM was kept below 50% of MCR and the strong recommendation to make the switch-over to MDO "as quick as reasonably possible". Below that temperature no guarantees. I could not believe my eyes when I read that, asked a MAN representative when on a training in Copenhagen, he confirmed it to be tested and found to be true.... Once... Somehow I never got permission to test that... :D
@@Infernal_Elf haha , i thought ships engines used heavy fuel oil but youtube experts shot me down claiming the ships engine used red diesel like the gensets would use ? There must be a system to prevent the wrong fuel being pumped into tanks at port ?
I did another video showing the emergency generator and yes it has its own completely independent fuel tank. Otherwise the main generators normally share 1 common fuel system but there can be 2
Thank you for that info. I live thousands of miles away but lots of ports and bridges all over the world and that's nice to know that you have back ups for your back ups. Very good job explaining that sir and thanks again.
Well presented information. Sounds very similar to how we designed critical controls and pumps in the chemical plants to the point of running the cables along different sides of the ship. We would then add another multi-layer "voting" safety shutdown system if system upsets could be lethal or explosive. I liked how you took the opportunity to prove your safety systems under their worst case conditions. Emergency systems (which are almost never used) don't always function when you REALLY NEED them to Work.
Thx Chief , Great explaination of redundant systems aboard ships . They may need to add redundancy to the Black Box . It conveniently is missing 2 minutes of critical data . Unheard of
There is no doubt in my mind that this was no accident. I believe that the powers that be have been slowly and steadily weakening our infrastructure for decades. Communists/Globalists are very patient people who plan things decades in advance. Not only do we have around 35 deadly bridge collapses since the 1960's, but we have also been purchasing cheap steel from China. (with the exception of the time President Trump was in office) If you were wanting to destroy a country from the inside, all of what I said would make sense. Don't even get me started on plane crashes. The media (propagandists) have normalized all of this so that Americans do not bat an eye when a plane crashes or a bridge comes down.
@Rapture1469 , Well it's not redundant . If a position sensor fails , Power , Wiring etc , often a system will be redundant, ie second network , power supply and even sensors .
Thank you for this video. This is excellent info. My guess what happened with Dali is, the backup generator kicks in, the thick smoke. And then even that dies out. Now issue with all this is, there was not much distance to cause any noticeable change in steering with inputs. These vessels take time, they are mammoth not just large. Other bit is, when backups kick-in, there always will be delay between when the controls become effective. There should have been battery backup too on Dali. But remember that would have been the third backup. Once the emergency generator dies, the battery backup would have come online. How many of you think there was time for that to be any effective.
Great video. I do have one question, (retired Aerospace Engineer here, and I know I am a PITA...) Let's say they could turn the rudder, but I have never heard what their forward speed was over the current. If you are going the same speed as the flow of the water, the position of the rudder really is not an issue. I know that China is running their ships at what I would call a skeleton crew, and that decision is seldom based on safety. I appreciate the time and effort you have put in to this video, and I want to thank you for the information, and for all my stuff,k (high end engineering term,) the Ships bring. I wish that all the Ships out there had a Chief Engineer of your dedication. Smiles.
So I’m not the expert on ship handling that’s going to be a pilot. But I do know the rudder effectiveness is significantly impacted by the water flowing past it and using the propeller to push water by the rudder to turn is a tactic, of course when the lights went out it means the engine stopped and significantly changed the amount of water moving by the rudder
Thank you for your info. I too am an old boatman as I once built an 8" sailboat in Jr High shop class.✊😁And my brother built a Revelle Model ship of the USS Arizona.
So basically, with all those redundancies and all those backups, if the power goes out there is at least 30 seconds of being unable to steer the ship (The period between the lights going out and the emergency generator kicking in). Looking at the video of the Dali that period was about 45 seconds, which apparently is still within the limits of whats allowed. Fine in the open ocean, a minute here or there is no biggie. But when you're approaching a bridge only a handful of boat lengths away it can be a long time.
Absolutely. After watching this video, this confirms for me that this was indeed a swan event. Not a white one, but the the opposite. Unbelievable @@hughjanus5518
@@hughjanus5518 Only 'propeller walk' does explain and is coherent with what we saw. Black smoke from main engine restarting in backward modus. Rutter doesn't work in this situation, propeller pushes back of the ship to the left, nose to the right and boom!
The Dali travelled about 600ft in that 45 seconds with no steering input. If the rudder was fixed during that time in a position that tended to Port the ship could have moved well off course in that time. Or am I missing something?
I watched countless "experts" doing interviews after this happened and soooooo many times they said "yes, we know they lost power, but we don't know if they lost steering". That drove me nuts. No power, means no electricity to the BAM's(Big Ass Motors) that turn the rudder, so YES they lost steering. Thank you for for being sure you included that in this video. I saw somewhere that someone had asked about a backup battery for steering systems. There isn't a battery system in existence that will power one of those motors enough to do what is needed. As a retired USN Engineer, I am of the opinion that when power came back online that second time, it was too late. There was no way to turn nor stop the ship in time. It is simply to big and too heavy to handle at that point. No, I don't have ANY experience on a ship like this but an engineering plant on any ship is virtually identical in concept and general operations. The only thing that is different would be plant operating procedures etc. specific to that particular ship. Losing power TWICE moving at that speed (8.5 knots with that much weight carries a lot of momentum) that close to the bridge, was too much to recover from. Another 100 yards and they may have had room to turn (but not stop).
My 83 year old Dad and I were talking yesterday. He retired from USN as a Commander in Surface Warfare in 1985. He called and asked what I might know of on the internet that would give him information on the current state of merchant ship hardware and systems. He was saying that he knows how it worked on military ships forty years ago but it is no longer forty years ago and these are not military ships. It was good to be able to give him Sal Mercogliano's channel and then the channels and videos such as this one.
A 6 minute video, far more insightful and informative than a thousand hours of media coverage. Thank you Chief, respect.
He did not address any possible causes of the initial shutdown. But no one is... One source suggested contaminated fuel but that's neither been confirmed or explained how that could cause everything to shut down simultaneously. The way it stands, without knowing the cause of the shutdown liability cannot be determined.
Gosh yes, if a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ships electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that these Ships electronic Autopilot will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Auto pilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or currant variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proves The HUMAN FINGER PRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard turned to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneaking on board and over powering the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and Captain and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
@@geoffreytoomey682did the FBI poison your oatmeal too?
@@geoffreytoomey682the crew was escorted to Walmart before departure , leaving the whole ship alone with no security to my knowledge.
Any terrorist or slime bag could have plenty of time to get on board and set up a path of destruction electronically. Word is though that this tub should never have been loaded let alone allowed to set sail. Multiple power failures and shorts happening while in port and no reports of everything being fixed appropriately. I’d sure like to hear the coast guards take on the investigation.
People forget, technology isn’t perfect, technology can fail, we tend to get too comfortable with it sometimes. And no matter how many different safety features are in place, it can still fail, that’s just the way it is.
I knew nothing about cargo ships before this unfortunate incident, and one thing I’ve learned watching countless hours of these videos is to appreciate how such dedicated and knowledgeable professionals like yourself are involved.
The MV Dali is a container ship, not a cargo ship.
@@vipermad358a container ship is a cargo ship, but the cargo is in dedicated containers rather than in a hold. At least that's how I understand it.
They are much more appreciated after reading a whole bunch of conspiracies theories.
@@jonwelch564
To me they are the same. Containners ships getting bigger and bigger.
Crew across all of the maritime industry as incredible people. It is a vocation and takes a certain profile. I have much admiration for crew
Good to listen to someone who actually knows what they're talking about. Thank you.
And always take it with a grain of salt. Use critical thinking and confirm from other credible sources.
Because even though a person might be a specialist, master in their field with dozens of years of experience, they might misrepresent things because there is a hidden agenda, a motivation guiding their statements.
- go to any car dealership and they will BS their way into selling a new car to a person that went for an oil change wth a perfectly good car, but the person is a simple person of the mind.
- scamdemic19 also another good example of manipulation using the specialists to lie and deceive the masses to instill a false narrative
- politicians, expert liars, specialists in their field of deceiving...well they get it right because they deceive and scam the citizens.
@@roberts.wilson1848 lol, chief engineer with literally years of content on the topic makes no BS 6min video on exactly how steering works on a big ship and you cry "do your own research" !! 🤣 simple question.... if u won't accept this.... what will u accept???
I'm here after Sal Mercogliano suggested your channel. Thanks for making the time to make these super-informative videos that address the very heart of the issues at hand. While information like this is fantastic we still don't know specifics and likely won't for some time. Two plus years for the report on the Evergiven... But with input like yours - SO specific to the tragic event you help teach us enough to understand. I'm so tired of the conspiracy theorists and those who think it's 'extraterrestrials. Thank you Chief.
No one thinks it was exterestials.....everyone thinks it was another 9/11 inside job to increase the price of everything and price gouge the surf.....pretty much everyone knows there was something fishy about 9/11....if you don't, then you are part of the 10% stupid people who have zero critical thinking skills after examining dozenss of hours of information.....even if 5% is real....ITS ENOUGH FOR EVEN THW DUMBEST PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT
Content like this is the reason the internet was invented❤ super knowledgable person sharing his expertise on the tropic we would otherwise never get grip. Thank you for making us smarter 😊
Agreed 👍
It was invented so CERN could watch porn.
Subject Matter Expert.
.
You wonder why the msm talking heads get the moniker for FAKE NEWS.
Originally so academia and top industry could communicate with the Department of Defense in the USofA.
Al Gore and his Clinton over-lords think it was invented to spy on us all. In hindsight they may not have been lyin... Funny how the Marxist left had all sorts of "capital" to invent all of these High-tech surveillance companies....
I was recommended by Sal's video - subscribed straight away. I much prefer learning from experts - not the internet in general 🙂
awww, c'mon, if its on tiktok its true, isn't it?
As a retired tug captain I appreciated your succinct description and well done walk through of the steering flats.
So, to me, it sounds like he's saying it would be almost impossible to hit that bridge by accident. Is that what he's saying?
@@wolfhors3_660 no try opposite .
@@heartobefelt what does your comment mean....it DOES SOUND LIKE IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE TO HIT OUR BRIDGE
@@wolfhors3_660 I AGREE WITH YOU WOLF...not sure what this heart to be felt means by saying try the opposite...lack of comprehension skills I guess.
@@heartobefelt Just because you have power doesn't mean you win the battle of physics. 110 Dead tons doesn't stop on a dime especially with ~8-8.5 kts (10mph/16kph) already on it and those engines still need to stop the ship and turn it.
Great explanation for all of us that have never seen the inside of a ship like this!
Yeah me neither, and also thank you for your mom giving me a guided tour of the canal...
@@xephael3485 You get out of the fourth grade yet?
@@natural_nc7230 thanks to your mom .. she is such a kisser
@@xephael3485 My mom is dead. Died at 83.
@@natural_nc7230 yet so sensual
Multiply redundant systems still have an Achilles Heel - the switchboard. I worked in an international computer centre. Everything had backups and the backups had backups. If the power went out we had three diesel generators that kicked in. A contractor working in the switchroom made a mistake, shorted the main incomers and the subsequent destruction took out the changeover switch so that it couldn't select either the city mains nor the diesels. Shit happens.
Some system uses air flash tanks to power the steering....and a third back up. The other option is EPC battery to power the hydraulic pumps for ten to 15 minutes. Hopefully, the politicians don't pass new regulation.
@@rgloria40 Well if they pass one that says "keep someone near the engine room at all times." than you get no objections from me as if the only other way to steer the ship is all the way down here then yeah maybe not a bad idea. Sure, that would suck for the person with that job, but we did have someone who regularly worked in the engine room in the past before everything became automated with built-in redundancies.
Gee, that sounds familiar. Wasn’t me but we were doing a UPS generator test and we tried to go back to grid power without verifying it was switched on. Oops.
Yeah this is my current theory, I'm no expert on the matter of course but after seeing what happened on the ship and how many times the ship lost power yeah this seems a very likely case.
@@themadoneplays7842 Even "keep someone near the steering gear while in a narrow channel" would be a good idea.
I was on cruisers and destroyers, we had similar safety’s and backups like you showed. We also had people manned in aft steering (same place your in) during any restricted maneuvering, like leaving a port, going through channels.
We also had brief’s before going into a restricted maneuvering event and every person would talk through what actions they would take during each situation that could happen.
Completely different worlds between military (where personnel redundancy for mission completion is paramount) and commercial (where reduced manning to maximize corporate profits is paramount). Each are not affordable from different societal standpoints.
Sailed as Electrician/Reefer for 10 years. This was a very good explanation of the rudder controls. Thanks.
I'm a master helmsman with years of experience. After trying things out in the Nautis simulator, I think what happened is it took around a minute for backup power to come online, at which point they likely got steering back at least briefly until the second power outage happened, but by then it was too late.
Two forces were at work over the course of that minute that caused the ship to turn rapidly to starboard. The ship was transiting near the port side of the channel, and bank suction caused the rear of the ship to pull toward the port channel bank and it also pushed the bow to starboard. At the same time, the ship was hit with a cross channel current coming from the starboard rear quarter, further driving the rear of the ship to port and the bow to starboard, inducing a rapid turning of the ship to starboard.
Even if they got steering back after one minute and put the rudder hard to port, the momentum induced by a full minute of turning forces without rudder input to compensate ended up causing the swing to starboard we see. Once a ship builds a turning momentum, it takes a long time to stop the turn momentum and get the ship coming back the opposite direction.
If the helmsman had been making a course correction to starboard when the power went out, and the rudder also got locked to starboard by 10 degrees or so for a full minute on top of that, it would make it just about impossible for the ship to recover in time to avoid the peer, even if they got rudder control back the moment the emergency generators kicked on.
It's looking more and more like that. The crew was doing everything they could. It's just the bridge got in the way of recovering the ship after its power failures.
What about the giant cloud of black smoke after the first power outage. The way I understand it, since this ship was built in roughly 2015, the main engine most likely had hydraulically powered fuel injectors and exhaust valves, and in the case of a total shipwide blackout, the main engine would have stopped nearly immediately due to no exhaust valves opening, and complete fuel cutoff. I think what happened was, there was a power outage, they managed to start the main engine in reverse, then panicked and put the main engine in full speed reverse. SInce electronically controlled engines have no camshaft, there's no delay in waiting a few seconds to move the camshaft from Ahead to Reverse. If the main engine is stopped, it can be started in reverse, and then in an emergency, commanded to run at max speed. Since it was already running, there's no need for a blow down, or prelube or anything like that.
With a single screw ship, with a single rudder, and moving at only 8.5 knots, the rudder will lose a ton of effectiveness due to the immense amount of cavitation, and lack of water flowing past the rudder. Like others have said, using bow thrusters at speeds over 2-3 knots is useless, and consume far too much electricity to be able to run off of an emergency switchboard.
Here's what I think happened. Several or more reefer containers shorted out, or the cables supplying 480v 3 phase power to the reefer section shorted out caught fire, and tripped the main generator. Instead of letting the automatic system start and run the emergency set, they quickly shut off the tripped breakers and started the other set of main generators, all ships have at least 2-3 or more main generator sets, most often there are 3. One running, one also running in parallel during heavy load operations or during arrival departure from ports or other critical situations, and one in hot standby or in maintenance. Then when they switched that main genset back onto the main bus, and flipped back on power to the reefer containers, it caused another short and either damaged something, or tripped breakers. They must have done this before the emergency generator switched on, sometimes they have a time delay so that the emergency set won't start up in case of a momentary blackout like what happens when you disconnect from shore power, and switch to onboard MDG's there's a momentary blackout. So this explains the first lights out on the Dali, followed by a longish delay lights come back on for 1/2 a minute then go back out. Now with no main generators available to start in time, the emergency set finally starts and runs after 30 seconds or so, you see the lights come back on the Dali, but not the main mast light and a few others, and then you see the bow begin to steer to the starboard, but it's too late and the ship hits the bridge 10-20 seconds after the bow finally begins to steer away from the bridge pylon.
There's rumors they were having electrical problems while in port. If this is true, they were idiots for leaving the dock. You would think that if you were about to take a ship on a 26 day long voyage down thru the Panama Canal, you would want to stay in Baltimore and have any generator or electrical issues sorted before leaving the dock. Number 1 reason would be for obvious safety reasons, a fire on board a box ship is a complete nightmare, 2nd of all, you would want to make sure you have reliable electrical supply to any refrigerated boxes. 26 days with no refrigeration is going to cost a lot of money in freight damages. 3rd, if you're planning on going thru the Panama Canal, there's a high risk of getting inspected before you're allowed to enter the first lock, because the Canal is very paranoid right now after that issue with the Evergreen ship stuck in the Suez Canal. No Canal authority is going to even take the slightest chance you're going to break down in the canal, if your ship looks like crap, you can either get detained, or sent the long way around. Good luck with that with todays high fuel prices, and you'll be late for your delivery appointment.
The current was pretty low at that time, the tides there are only around 2 feet, and they were only about 2 hours away from slack tides. However there was a slight wind to the south, and the Dali with that many boxes has a pretty good sail effect especially if the main engine stops, and combined with the effect of prop drag. So it's quite possible the slight current coming from the south channel pushing against the stern of the ship, plus the wind from the north, plus the drag in the water from the stopped propeller could have started the ship drifting to starboard.
I think this whole thing is goiing to turn out to be a classic swiss cheese failure. Human error combined with mechanical failure(s), plus lack of maintenance. Unfortunately they took too many chances, and this time all the holes in the cheese lined up, and 6 people lost their lives.
Because the ship was in a very hazardous area, it seems the anchor should have been dropped as soon as power was lost. Too risky to just wait and hope for power to return. That would have more than doubled the time to slow down until impact, four minutes instead of less than two.
I believe there was also a significant breeze from the port (left) side as well, which would tend to cause the turn to starboard.
Many years ago when I was a (deck) cadet, I was working on a Valdez trade oil tanker. This vessel utilized a pair of Automatic Bus Transfer Switches to handle whether main or emergency power ran the steering gear. Part of pre departure checklist was to run the self test. Well, one time, something goes wrong in one of the switches, and it “blows up” (guessing an arc of some sort) and blows the door off. 2/E was standing about 6 feet away. Big, slow spoken southern gentleman. At dinner that night he said, “well, I haven’t been that scared in years.” And nothing else about the event.
I had a Mico switch blow on a ABT WHEN TESTING IT ALSO.
@@SamGouldsboro more excitement than needed…
what ignited that detonated in there?
@@jlo13800 it was an electrical arc, which is not a true explosion, it’s a release of energy like an explosion.
@@stephenbritton9297 Its a plasma 2 stroke cycle
Many thanks for this discussion of all the reduncancy. Back in the late 1960s, I worked at an FPS-16 radar site at Eglin AFB that tracked the spacecraft for the Mercury and Gemini programs. I was there for the last two Gemini missions. For reentry in the Atlantic, the track from our radar was vital. To make sure nothing went down, we went to diesel generators for power. If they failed, we could switch back to commercial power much faster than a diesel could start up. Also, because the radars were designed to track missiles, they had a battle short mode that disabled much of the protective circuitry. The radar would work until something caught fire or melted. For reentry the radar went into battle short. That radar would stay up come what may.
That sounds like a good read, any info on it?
Old engineer, saying thats a good presentation. I preferred sailing as Chief Electrician, and have a hard time explaining to people that have never seen a ship, what happened. If you've sailed long enough, you know what happens.
Subscribed, just to let them see it.
Thanks!
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
@@geoffreytoomey682you really gonna copypasta this rant on every comment 😅
I just realized that too
@@FaustoTheBoozehoundits not a rant. Its sequence of events.
You are a planted government agent and you know it. Given all your inside knowledge you have a mission to plant seeds of doubt in a propaganda smear. You are trying to change public perception in order to furher the government justification for war in isreal and beyond. Furthermore your youtube handle can .e traced to a .cia.gov email address. YOU ARE BUSTED!!!@geoffreytoomey682
I'm here from Sal's channel. Thanks for the great (while brief) explanation. I'm sure you could spend hours on this topic! I worked in an industry that also required lots of redundancy, so your explanation makes a lot of sense. Obviously for the Dali, there are still a lot of questions that only an official report will answer. (Subscribed)
Here from Sal's channel too
These men are really impressive.
That's a 65 ton propeller...
7 tons per piston...
100,000+ ton vehicle... A little bit harder to steer than a Tesla...
I spent 40+ years at sea as an Engineer Officer in the British Merchant Navy, with around 30 as a Ch/Eng and, without knowing the ins and outs, I can say that the ship that hit the bridge had more than one thing go wrong at the same time, i.e, there was a cascade effect of multiple issues. On the older ships that I sailed on, together with the hand controls and redundancy mentioned in this video we also had emergency "hand steering" with a ships wheel down aft above the poop house. This was ALWAYS tested prior to departure from any port and also every week while on passage, with these tests being recorded in the official ship's log book.
+You are so correct, I have often counted 6 or more things gone wrong in an accident.
Similar experience but for the ‘grey funnel line’ in addition we had a Hail Mary system where when all was lost we could use a f’n big hand pump to hand steer - needed two guys to pump it, very physical and could only do it for 5 minutes maximum. It was normally done to centre the rudder but just for shits and giggles was exercised for steering a course but then the manpower required multiplied to extend the 5 minutes human endurance.😉
Sailed 12 years US merchant marine as deck officer. USCG requires the emergency "hand steering" test every 3 months. The steering tests prior to arrival/departure are simply done by the bridge to make sure the rudder is in good order. These are different tests.
Very well done! Too many uninformed opinions and/or conspiracy theories being spread about this terrible tragedy. Great to hear a seasoned pro explain the complexity, redundancy and safeguards that are in place. Blessing and Prayers to the families who have lost loved ones, and to all who have and continue to suffer from this sad event. Pray also for the safety of the salvage crews who must now clear the debris and recover those lost.
Yea because corruption and warfare doesn't exist. The term conspiracy theory was pushed by the CIA so no one would question anything and here you are using it. When no one knows what happened you don't just rule things out just because you heard on CNN that every bad thing you hear is a conspiracy theory. That's stupid.
Never thought id watch a video on how THESE work and actually enjoyed learning about it. Now, when the "official " report comes out, we can make a more informed decision on whether or not to believe them.
SOLAS and US regulations require the E-Gen to take emergency load within 45 seconds. Most ships are engineered to have the E-Gen light off and take the emergency load faster than the regulations.
And the Dali's emergency generator took 59 seconds. But as I read in other comments, that 14 seconds would change much: negating the huge drift would be quite hard if even possible.
thank you very much to explain this to the public Sir. This is what I have tried to explain on several channels as I have intalled and built some of these steering mechanismens 15 years ago on containerships built in Denmark. However it is satisfying to see someone educate the public as I have been made as a fool due to my comments on other channels. I have decided not to make any more comments on youtube due to the condescension of my personallity. Again thank you very much Mr Chief Engineer may God bless you to never experience the worst scenario ever. Best regards from former hydraulic engineer and hydraulic component producer.
Because no one wants to believe that we were attacked by someone.
no need to take youtube comments personal. The web has mentally ill people crawling around youtube making negative comments trying to get a rise out of people for their own twisted anusement .
If some stranger insults you simply for having actual information that contradicts their fantasy, the kindest thing you can do is to let them rant without internalizing.
Bud you make any comment you want.People if you can call them that are a bunch of loosers that has to try to make everyone around look dumb so they can look smarter.Don't pay attention to trolls and idiots.
@@eddythehead9101they did a piss poor job then.
Sal brought me here, appreciate the information.
Retired river engineer here, thanks for the rundown on ships equipment. What we had for steering on newer boats is similar, but this is different enough that I appreciate the information from the person who deals with it. Thanks!
Your explanations are very enlightening. I do not understand with all of the government entities involved in this disaster why none of them or even the media hasn't provided this information to the America people. The internet is full of opinions and zero facts. Nobody seems too care about informing the public. You sir have done an incredible job of informing the public and it is a shame that no one in public service has taken the time to inform the public. Thank you for your unsolicited, but, extremely helpful info. Keep up the
great work.
"Zero facts'?! The abundance of facts i've learned about shipping last week ALL came from the internet. Ok, not from 'news' sources, but only stupid people still think that facts come from media in stead of professionals in the field.
Those who can do, those who can’t work for the government
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
@@steamman9193Or worse yet they teach, which all to common.
@@shawnhudson3735Well... Who runs the schools? Government.
The chief engineer is first in line to become captain on large ships. Respect!
Absolutely not true. His license does not entitle him to work in the deck department. Next in line, for instance if the captain is incapacitated, is the Chief Mate (1st Officer).
As a former US licensed Chief Engineer, I can truthfully state your statement is false. If the Captain is incapacitated, the 1st Mate assume command. The Chief Engineer is NOT licensed for a deck rating and cannot become a captain.
@@lightshipchief Absolutely correct. It was a strange comment, all I can assume is that he was not a mariner
I work in a powerplant, we are set up similar with all of the redundant systems. We have our normal feeds, our back up feeds, emergency generator feeds, & then battery backups that feed inverters. Worst case scenario, we still have constant power to our vital systems. I found it hard to believe that steering on a ship that big wouldn’t have something similar…
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never accidentally turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several Diesel Generators that the ship's electronic Autopilot controls to the Diesel motors controlling the Hydraulic rams to the Rudder and will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Arse
Sal recommended you so Ive now subscribed. Thanks for the review of the ships steering. Gotta check out more of your videos. I'm a steam locomotive engineer but also have steam experience in steam powered Canadian Naval ships... John L Victoria BC Canada
I’d love to ride a steam train one day
Your explanations are very enlightening. You sir have done an incredible job of informing the public, and it is a shame that no one in public service has taken the time to inform the public. Thank you for your unsolicited, but, extremely helpful info.
More than likely no one in the public service has the knowledge to explain the reasons.
The Chief's terrific explanation only opens up for more questions. Thank God he's the Chief on his Container Ship!!!
Gosh yes, thank you that is my understanding of modern-day shipping, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Appreciate the inside baseball. I think most people just think "Boat do be boating" and don't think about what is under the skin.
50% of people are below average intelligence.
But my mans de boat him do be boating?
What a worthless take. Thanks!
@@Haterkilla4717 What a worthless comment. thanks. lol
Boaty McBoatFace do be boatin
Thank you chief. Excelent, and ashamed to acknowledge, as a retired navigator, I should have known more about the steering system. The conclussion I'm drawing from yours (and others) video, is that vital information is missing. Regardless thanks for the education. Steering systems are designed NOT to fail.
I was the electrician on a large ocean going vessel and I always tested the E-generators once per month, under load. We often used fire pumps etc.. to load up the E-buss.
What you're saying makes perfect sense.
Big thing is, the whole crew has to be trained on what to do. We had those drills monthly.
We did that and evaluated everyone's performance in an emergency to assess whether they needed more training or what ever. Safety first !
I got a question for you. Is it remotely possible (Imaginable) that someone could board the vessel sometime prior to departure and hack something/ anything in such a way as to effect control? Just curious? Thanks for your reply. 👍
@@kickingagainstthepricks4059 It would be trivial to do something that would cause big problems.
For example, on the front of many large breakers there is a dial where you can set the trip, You could turn that dial in about 5 seconds and no one would know but the breaker would trip well before it was supposed to trip, shutting down the engines or power. Hundreds of other things you could do if you had the knowledge. On the mechanical side you could turn the fuel off to the generator, unplug a sensor, disconnect the throttle linkage. 10 seconds, in and out, no one would know. Not only but the controls are all electronic. A virus or script could easily be triggered and command what ever you wanted to command such as rudder full right. I've seen many critical systems that run on Windows and even DOS.
@@jackflash6377 I was just wondering when the locked bridge doors are coming. If you know what I mean. Thanks for your reply. 👍
@@kickingagainstthepricks4059 Not to the steering gear. Typical steering gear tests are done an hour before departure.
The problem is that training is not a priority. I think that's mostly because the people responsible for training are either, incompetent or untrained themselves, lazy, or lnow what is going on but don't have the ability to teach others. I was on the SSn Alpena and My chief and first assistant were assholes. You should have seen the fire drills. They were a joke. It's the same way on all the other boats too. I was a cadet on the State of Michigan, the SS Cason Calloway and a Third AE on a Maersk Container ship before working on the Alpena. I can tell you right now, every ship that sinks or is in some disaster the NTSB report ALWAYS list lack of maintenance and lack of crew training as reasons for the mishap. It will never change. Greed, laziness, ego and stupidity are too strong to overcome.
Great explanation, even with redundancy it still takes time. Chief Makoy (YT) a chief engineer on a bulk ship and is always showing how things work on his ship. Including emergency drills, maintenance and life aboard. People doing important jobs, unknown and unseen that keep our world together. Thanks.
Great video! It was hard to find a video with someone that actually knows about this stuff. I wasn’t thinking conspiracy at all. just wanted to understand how these things work. And why it turned suddenly turned so sharp. I was assuming the perspective might have made it look… more drastic than it was
Wow! That steering system, I saw it in 1982 as a cadet engineer on a container ship , much smaller. It was called “Hastie ” .
Just before I watched this very informative video i watched the video of the immense engine of a container ship. Talk about immense engineering. The size of the yoke connecting the rudder post to the hydraulic rams indicates the magnitude of the forces needed. Amazing!
Fantastic Chief! So good to have a pro talk us through this critical system!
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I think the problem in this instance was not that they had no control of the rudder, but that they went astern when they got the main engine back.
That most likely would have blanked the rudder, making it ineffective. Then the paddle wheel effect (prop walk) takes effect which would turn the ship.
This makes the most sense. Along with the usual smattering of maintenance and crew experience/training causes.
I thought the NTSB said they didn't get main engines back?
@@greenernick NTSB website "latest news" only has something from March 12 related to 737 door plugs. And typically they are quite tight-lipped until the investigation is wrapping (wrapped) up. Did you see some kind of press conference, or might your impression be based on a source other than NTSB?
Excellent. You would be very credible if I were sitting in a court of inquiry or a civil liability trial.
Thank you, your explanation as to ships steering gear and it's backups systems was very informative. I've never been around large vessels other than viewing from afar.
Thank you that was very helpful. Good to know there are dedicated mariners like you out on the sea.
And the Dali's house is even farther forward than the one on your ship. Failures in the rudder control room and emergency generator room would have been a long trip for any seaman to make. Another great educational video. Thank you.
Thank you sir for your fine description of the operation of steering on a container vessel, you are by far more informative than every news feed i have seen so far!
Thank you so much! Never even *visited* big modern ship engineering spaces. I figured there would be redundancy, you filled in details and some times.
A great explanation of how the system works. On the small ship I was Captain of, we had electrical, hydraulic and manual (winch and pulley blocks) if anything went south. So even if we lost the main engine, standby and backup gensets, we could still steer the ship. Manual steering with the pulleys was damned hard work (we practiced a couple of times) but we could still steer.
Thank you for sharing that. A simple no blah blah explanation so that the common man can understand it.
Thanks for taking the time to clearly explain how this all works!
Finally a real specialist explaining how those monster works! this is an amazing tour !
Thank you for this explanation Chief!! I’m a senior field service engineer for a major thruster company and I’ve commissioned 100’s of vessels. You are 1000% correct! There are main and backup steering and speed controls from the bridge, from the engine control room, from the thruster switchboxes, and manually from the hydraulic tanks… and last resort from the thruster itself with a large ratchet if need be. Now, granted this is a rudder system not a thruster… but exact same concept. ALL vessels have several backups for steering and speed for these exact scenarios. They’re tested periodically by ABS and crews train often to use all the controls in emergencies so they can respond quickly. 👊 Respect!
Thank you SOOO much! That was clear, concise and easy to understand. And thanks to your employer for allowing you to show your ship in such detail. You have a very cool job that most of us who buy lots of stuff that was shipped across oceans think about too little. Thanks for all that you do to make our lives better.
You are a valuable resource. My familiarity with operating on oceans is limited to Captain Aubrey novels, but I do know that when stuff goes bad, it has a tendency to go bad in catastrophic fashion.
Excellent explanation from a True hands-on Expert. It doesn't get any better than this, thanks!
Top video Chiefy. The distance from the ECR to the steering flat is a serious consideration with these bigger box boats.
It’d be great to do a video on an emergency steering drill.
The redundancy works as long as all the redundancy is in working order. Thank you for your video and insights.
Old US Navy Tin-Can "Snipe" here. THANKS, Chief! I was wondering about all of this and any differences in redundancy that we had compared to ships like the Dali. = It sure seems that the more REAL INFORMATION we get from folks like you, the more QUESTIONS we have that deserve answers.
Great video and amazing engineering design with safety first. This is why it is so hard for me to believe a ship ever took out a bridge, and it speaks to a bigger electrical problem.
Timing is everything…
@gonefishing7813 1 week after The horrible terrorist attack in Moscow this happens.
Coincidence?
I think not
I was on a aircraft carrier in the 80's. We called that space after steering. We had 2 rudders and an after steering for each. There was an engineer and a helmsman down there 24/7. The helmsman could drive the ship while talking with the bridge.
When I was aboard USS Ranger Cv 61 , I was a phone talker in Dc Central . 1 of the daily drills between 0000+0400 was to turn off the stearing cable ,to see how long it took for some one to notice All it took was a simple flip of a switch . To restore flipping the other switch . Only done in open ocean.
@@henrycarlson7514 yep, I was a Quartermaster and master helmsman. Every sea and anchor detail was a busy time for us. By the way, I was on USS Saratoga CV 60.
@@gar949 Did you do the drill where Dc Central would shut the steering cable off between 0000-0400 , as an awakeness test?.
@@henrycarlson7514 Yes! If I recall we didn't know it was a test until after we took control down there. The mid watch was the worst. I think we all dosed off once or twice, but there were some who would intentionally go to sleep on watch.
@@gar949 I was Instructed Not to tell . I went into after steering once , how you stated awake is beyond me
Excellent video. You explained the workings of the steering system so well. Thanks so much for sharing.
Thank you so much!!! 🙏 awesome video - Sal Mercogliano recommended your channel and we’re so happy to add your channel to our lineup!!!
Thank you very much for this informative video! I knew absolutely nothing about any of the workings of these ships prior to watching this. Now I have an understanding of how alot of this works! You're very professional and dedicated to your profession. This is not a job til something else comes along. This is a monumental career!
Excellent explanation of how these ships operate in basic terms that's easy to understand. Thanks for the video!
Thank you for just walking us through the details on how rudder systems work and the redunancy involved.
Thanks for the very detailed presentation!
It seems like the issue wasn’t that they lost steering control but that they unfortunately immediately went full power astern after the first outage, which swung the tail of the ship in the wrong direction and defeated the action of the rudder.
Or maybe Sarbotage - supply blocking in the name of >The Great Resets
I am surprised that emergency power takes so long to kick on. I have installed two emergency generators in Hospitals and you could barely see the lights flicker before generators came on. Thank you for great explanation.
Hospitals have huge battery banks where the power comes from when the power goes out.
They only need to last until the Generator kicks in, it still takes up to 20-30 seconds for the Generator to start up and start producing power.
He doesn't mean it takes 30 seconds for the generators to start, maybe only a few seconds to start. But they also have to ramp up, sync up with each other, and then the appropriate emergency switchgear breakers need to operate, all controlled by microprosser. These things take a little time, also there is some intentional delay built into each of those steps for safety of the system.
Thinking similar. We had to 'load test' our emergency diesels (land-based power plant) monthly (or more if they failed the monthly). They had to start, close in and be carrying the loads in < 10 seconds to pass. Mind you, these were the old EMD v16's and had prelub running on them all the time.
The main switchboard is supposed to start (if necessary) and synch a main generator onto the main bus in 10-15 seconds depending on what's running and how much load. The E-gen is supposed to be the backup in case the msbd blackout recovery fails.
Thank You for Your Expert Explanation of this, It's perfect. 4 minutes to troubleshoot and solve the problem is generally unreasonable.
Very helpful. For all of us public out here who don't really know how those big ships are built, guys like you shine!
Thanks for the breakdown and walkthrough.
Thanks Chief for your explanation, it helps so many who are not snipes. I’m not sure you explain how the emergency panel (buss that supplies all things critical including the port steering motor) has an “automatic” buss transfer that switches supply power from the normal generators to the emergency generator without operator intervention. Also that the port steering motor is a LVR style controller that also automatically restarts the port steering motor as soon as power is available. Many thanks!
There is automation in the switchboards. Most Main Switchboards have a Power Management System, that starts a next main generator when the load on the running generator(s) approaches 80%, and stops a generator when load has dropped below a certain value such that it is safe to do so. This is all automated. Not all ships have this, but WHEN they have it, it is always possible to manually override, or disable the stopping function.
This means the Main Switchboard should under normal circumstances maintains power in a safe and efficient way.
For manouvering conditions, the PMS is manually set in the mode where generators come on when needed, but do NOT switch off once connected to the MSB.
IF there is a technical or mechanical problem and (one or all of) the online generators shut down, this PMS system WILL attempt to start any and all availlable main generators and connect them to the main switchboard, and it will do so without time delay, but this starting sequence might take 5~10 seconds. They ar big engines, they don't respond as fast as a car engine :D
As soon as the ESB detects a black-out, it initially will do nothing for about 10~15 seconds, this is to give the Main Switchboard time to first try to restore power on its own, because main generators, if availlable, are preferrable over emergency power, and you don't want emergency systems activating on first whim. After all, they ar emergency systems and cannot perform identical to the main systems. So if possible...
If MSB power is not restored within that time, the Emergency Switchboard (ESB) will first disconnect from the MSB, and simultaneously the Emergency Generator is being started. As soon as that Emergency Generator has operating speed and voltage, it will be connected to the ESB. The ESB now is a stand-alone powergrid, and on most ships will remain in that status, regardless of MSB power returning or not.
These two powergrids can run side by side for as long as there is fuel in the emergency generator's tank, and the two grids won't affect or influence each other.
On some ships, the Emergency generator automatically resets to standby mode when MSB power is restored, most ships however (at least the ones I worked on) needed a manual reset to normal operation again.
Steering gear pumps are (I have NEVER seen otherwise) fitted with position switches instead of pushbuttons for starting and stopping. This means that in case of a power outage those switches rmain in the on position and the steering motors restart as soon as power comes back on.
@@rigididiot I agree with all you added. Thanks for contributing to the thread. I guess we will all have to wait to hear why power was loss, why steering was not restored, and how the operators and main engine responded to ordered bells. Thank you.
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
Thanks for the "behind the scene" look at the steering systems. I figured as much that there should have been a back-up method for steering the ship!!
Thanks for the explanation, makes sense - redundancy is key. Your rudder room is immaculate!
I run smaller ships so I don't know if its different for some reason on your vessels but with NFU steering we still have the rudder angle indicator operational. It would be almost impossible to steer in that mode without it. I have a lot of respect for my engineers. The complexity of their jobs is incredible. Great video.
do they use a rotary shaft encoder to transmit the rudder position to Helm or is it something more old school ? i am guessing there must be at least 2 systems ?
@@heartobefelt Not sure what a rotary shaft encoder is but I believe the RAI signal, however it is transmitted, is totally independent of the steering system.
@@kayakdog121That would make sense, as in a stepper motor, servo motor, or even PWM cooling fan controller. They are a separate feed back system often some form of magnetic induction pulses (or light reflection etc.) that a controller can calculate actual vs demand position of a system. It's separate and distinct from the motor or hydraulic system itself. Just a guess based on similar systems where angular position, steering is used as part of a feed back design.
Excellent presentation!
Cheers for the tour and explanations. There's some brilliant thinking that goes in to designing these systems. Having wiring on either side in case of a collision was not something I knew about, common sense to blokes like you, but to me that's very smart thinking.
Nice to hear it "straight from the horse's mouth" so to speak. I'm a concrete guy for almost 30 years so zero ship/boat experience here. Thanx for putting it in "Layman's terms", I'm sure you could have gotten very technical, but you saved that for the "suits".
Good job Eric.
Chief MAKOi has a good channel that goes into some of the possible causes of this accident.
Thank you for this indepth look at the power systems and redundancies involved with containerships. Obviously there is a lot that no one knows at this point and I hope the NTSB determines exactly what happened. Thank you again.
The NTSB has a huge challenge to find what really happened with the MV Dali Thanks for this professional video. BZ
LOL
Modern ships have an abundant amount of data logging. The NTSB does excellent work.
You can go to their website and read some of their published incident reports. It will give you a good perspective of what they are looking for and what information is available to them.
www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/MIR2404.pdf
also lol
They really don't. They have the ship, the crew, testimonies from all of them, video.
@@TyphoonVstromProvided the insides didn't cook off.
On a differemt RUclips channel, it was stated that the Dali left the quay side and sailed WITH the outgoing tide. Long ago, I remember a ships' pilot telling me that a ship never sailed with the tide, always AGAINST the INCOMING tide. The reason being that in a narrow navigation channel, steerage could be maintained against the tide and the ship was by far more manoeuverable. Another aspect which has not been discussed is the effect of varying local currents affecting the passage through the channel and under Francis Scott Bridge. Did this also impact on the unexpected track taken into the bridge pier?
Why the hard turn to Starboard? All wind and current issues were coming from the Port side, and the Autopilot or Harbour Pilot were adjusting for the wind and current variations that affected the ship's course. the mayday call had been sent and still, the ship continued on the course because the rudder was still working, they had dropped the Port anchor but didn't let out enough chain as shown after the crash the chain is hanging down meaning that it had not been dragging on the bottom. so the Anchor would not interfere with the course change into the Bridge Pier. My understanding of modern-day ships, a ship loses power to the propeller, the ship will continue on the course it was on before the loss of engine power, and the weight and momentum of such a heavy ship will never turn like the video shows. Remember the ship's electrical supply is from one of several electricity generators that the ship electronic Autopilot controlling the hydraulic motors on the Rudder will keep working keeping the ship on the course set by the Harbour Pilot, remember that the ship was on course to pass under the bridge when the lights were turned off, without electric power to the Autopilot the rudder will remain on the set course while it was adjusting course for any wind or current variations, then when the lights (electric power) came on again the ship auto-pilot would automatically resume the original course settings before the power loss, But! The video showing the sharp turn onto the target had nothing to do with the lights, or Autopilot or wind or currants proving that The HUMAN FINGERPRINT is all over this deliberate turn into the Bridge. Heavy smoke from the engine funnel is caused by a sudden increase in fuel to the engine, providing strong water pushed onto the now hard-turned-to Starboard rudder, then again the ship rudder was adjusted to Port to stop the turn because the ship needed to make a direct hit not a glancing blow against the target. This was intentional closure of Americas 5th biggest port! No question about that! But was it the US Government extremists or their FBI, or CIA! Did Terrorists sneak on board and overpower the crew? Was it blackmail of the Harbour Pilots and captains and engineers, no matter why? It is “who are they” that must be discovered because 6 people are dead because of this deliberate act by some of the People on this ship!!!!!!!
@@geoffreytoomey682 Your understanding is flawed. To say the least. Your conspiracy theory is idiotic.
Ships sail at all stages of the tide.
- tug engineer, Port of NY.
I guess ships never go down river either, huh 😂
I like it when smart people have a voice, thank you Steam man.
Wow! What a massive amount of force is moved! I run power plants on land, I appreciate videos like these!
Nice work great video. I'm here from my boy Sal
Thankyou for this explanation...really helpful.
Many thanks for putting this information out, it was very interesting to see how these large ships get about. I have a narrow boat which obviously has nothing in comparison to a large ship but I do appreciate the skill involved in handling these mammoths of the see which we all depend on. Please pass my thanks on to all the crew keeping these ships safely afloat very much appreciated.
you're like Mr Scott from Star Trek !
thanks for the walk thru, I know nothing about ships or engineering , but I understood everything you explained, well done sir !
Based on your presentation, it must have been a herculean effort to overcome the protective redundancies to plow the bridge column
Not really we all can see the lights go out indicating power was lost to 1 steering motor. What I don’t know is if the emergency generator came online to power the other motor
Cant help but wonder if this will turn out to be a case of people panicking and ending up making the situation worse
As a Somali pirate, I found this very informative.
Thanks for your time and effort, both tgg h e video & honing your craft. I can tell you don’t sit around playing games on your phone like most of the younger generation does. Keep up the good work 👍🏻
Nice and clean space. Everything looks squared away and shipshape.
How is fuel distributed? Do all fuel serviced items share the same fuel source? Do the emergency gen sets have a dedicated fuel source. What type of fuel issues could cause failure of all diesel powered units, ie contamination, pump failure. Excellent presentation on the emergency backups. Sal sent me here, and I'll be a new subscriber.
Good question. im a ship engine officer myself and il try to explain it simple il number it 1 and and so on from start to finish.
1.Storage tank Heavy fuel oil or Diesel
2. Pumped through a rough filter into a temporarly storage tank for Sepearation.
3. Fuel is pumped from seperation tank though a seperator to remove water dirt and such alfa laval makes those.
4.Fuel is pumped into day tank.
5. Fuel is pumped by pump from day tank to main engines or generators Throught 1-2 filters all filters have redundancy filters if pressure drops.
emergency generators usually have tottaly independent fuel supply and might not even need electricity to keep running. Depending on the size of the engine it is started with air or batteries lets say a Mack size truck engine generator would be started with electricity and sometimes double the size also.
But inline 8 cylinder 10 thousand horsepower to 100k plus main engines is started with air. Heavy fuel oil must be Warmed to 45-60 degrees Celsius just to become liquid so that is also something to think of Heavy fuel oil that most ships use is almost like Asphalt Bitumen.
@@Infernal_Elf Great info. Thanks for your detailed response.
@@Infernal_Elf It depends a bit on the engine, but the last MAN B&W crosshead engines I worked with (built in '96 IIRC) according to manual in case of emergency were able to start on a 700 cSt fuel with the entire engineroom including fuel systems cooled down to 20 degrees C, provided RPM was kept below 50% of MCR and the strong recommendation to make the switch-over to MDO "as quick as reasonably possible". Below that temperature no guarantees.
I could not believe my eyes when I read that, asked a MAN representative when on a training in Copenhagen, he confirmed it to be tested and found to be true.... Once...
Somehow I never got permission to test that... :D
@@Infernal_Elf haha , i thought ships engines used heavy fuel oil but youtube experts shot me down claiming the ships engine used red diesel like the gensets would use ?
There must be a system to prevent the wrong fuel being pumped into tanks at port ?
I did another video showing the emergency generator and yes it has its own completely independent fuel tank.
Otherwise the main generators normally share 1 common fuel system but there can be 2
Thank you for that info. I live thousands of miles away but lots of ports and bridges all over the world and that's nice to know that you have back ups for your back ups. Very good job explaining that sir and thanks again.
Well presented information. Sounds very similar to how we designed critical controls and pumps in the chemical plants to the point of running the cables along different sides of the ship. We would then add another multi-layer "voting" safety shutdown system if system upsets could be lethal or explosive.
I liked how you took the opportunity to prove your safety systems under their worst case conditions. Emergency systems (which are almost never used) don't always function when you REALLY NEED them to Work.
Thx Chief , Great explaination of redundant systems aboard ships . They may need to add redundancy to the Black Box . It conveniently is missing 2 minutes of critical data . Unheard of
There is no doubt in my mind that this was no accident. I believe that the powers that be have been slowly and steadily weakening our infrastructure for decades. Communists/Globalists are very patient people who plan things decades in advance. Not only do we have around 35 deadly bridge collapses since the 1960's, but we have also been purchasing cheap steel from China. (with the exception of the time President Trump was in office) If you were wanting to destroy a country from the inside, all of what I said would make sense. Don't even get me started on plane crashes. The media (propagandists) have normalized all of this so that Americans do not bat an eye when a plane crashes or a bridge comes down.
How do you record data from something which has shutdown ?
If the engine has shut down it will not issue any data stream , RPM=0 , Data File = 0
@heartobefelt That's not what I said . I said the Black box failed for 2 minutes to record any data . Not the data itself
@@MrMotorNerd I think it was still recording voice data - just not input from systems (which were likely off).
@Rapture1469 , Well it's not redundant . If a position sensor fails , Power , Wiring etc , often a system will be redundant, ie second network , power supply and even sensors .
Thank you for this video. This is excellent info. My guess what happened with Dali is, the backup generator kicks in, the thick smoke. And then even that dies out. Now issue with all this is, there was not much distance to cause any noticeable change in steering with inputs. These vessels take time, they are mammoth not just large. Other bit is, when backups kick-in, there always will be delay between when the controls become effective. There should have been battery backup too on Dali. But remember that would have been the third backup. Once the emergency generator dies, the battery backup would have come online. How many of you think there was time for that to be any effective.
Great video. I do have one question, (retired Aerospace Engineer here, and I know I am a PITA...)
Let's say they could turn the rudder, but I have never heard what their forward speed was over the current. If you are going the same speed as the flow of the water, the position of the rudder really is not an issue. I know that China is running their ships at what I would call a skeleton crew, and that decision is seldom based on safety.
I appreciate the time and effort you have put in to this video, and I want to thank you for the information, and for all my stuff,k (high end engineering term,) the Ships bring.
I wish that all the Ships out there had a Chief Engineer of your dedication.
Smiles.
So I’m not the expert on ship handling that’s going to be a pilot. But I do know the rudder effectiveness is significantly impacted by the water flowing past it and using the propeller to push water by the rudder to turn is a tactic, of course when the lights went out it means the engine stopped and significantly changed the amount of water moving by the rudder
Thank you for your info. I too am an old boatman as I once built an 8" sailboat in Jr High shop class.✊😁And my brother built a Revelle Model ship of the USS Arizona.
So basically, with all those redundancies and all those backups, if the power goes out there is at least 30 seconds of being unable to steer the ship (The period between the lights going out and the emergency generator kicking in). Looking at the video of the Dali that period was about 45 seconds, which apparently is still within the limits of whats allowed.
Fine in the open ocean, a minute here or there is no biggie. But when you're approaching a bridge only a handful of boat lengths away it can be a long time.
Nothing explains the turn as winds and current wouldn't turn the ship, they would move the entire ship.
Absolutely. After watching this video, this confirms for me that this was indeed a swan event. Not a white one, but the the opposite. Unbelievable @@hughjanus5518
@@hughjanus5518 Only 'propeller walk' does explain and is coherent with what we saw. Black smoke from main engine restarting in backward modus. Rutter doesn't work in this situation, propeller pushes back of the ship to the left, nose to the right and boom!
The Dali travelled about 600ft in that 45 seconds with no steering input. If the rudder was fixed during that time in a position that tended to Port the ship could have moved well off course in that time. Or am I missing something?
I watched countless "experts" doing interviews after this happened and soooooo many times they said "yes, we know they lost power, but we don't know if they lost steering". That drove me nuts. No power, means no electricity to the BAM's(Big Ass Motors) that turn the rudder, so YES they lost steering. Thank you for for being sure you included that in this video. I saw somewhere that someone had asked about a backup battery for steering systems. There isn't a battery system in existence that will power one of those motors enough to do what is needed. As a retired USN Engineer, I am of the opinion that when power came back online that second time, it was too late. There was no way to turn nor stop the ship in time. It is simply to big and too heavy to handle at that point. No, I don't have ANY experience on a ship like this but an engineering plant on any ship is virtually identical in concept and general operations. The only thing that is different would be plant operating procedures etc. specific to that particular ship. Losing power TWICE moving at that speed (8.5 knots with that much weight carries a lot of momentum) that close to the bridge, was too much to recover from. Another 100 yards and they may have had room to turn (but not stop).
My 83 year old Dad and I were talking yesterday. He retired from USN as a Commander in Surface Warfare in 1985. He called and asked what I might know of on the internet that would give him information on the current state of merchant ship hardware and systems. He was saying that he knows how it worked on military ships forty years ago but it is no longer forty years ago and these are not military ships. It was good to be able to give him Sal Mercogliano's channel and then the channels and videos such as this one.
Great job! I think you made that fairly clear for the average person to understand. I look forward to seeing more of your content.
Nice to see the ship. I use to sail with my chief engineer husband back in the day. Miss the ship and being at sea. It was a Great way of life.