PROOF: Mormons Don't Treat Their Prophets Like Prophets
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- LDS Church Leaders have taught that Heavenly Father has a father-yet many Latter-day Saints (Mormons) disagree with this teaching. As an evangelical-this baffles me!
Mormonism claims to be the Restored Church of Jesus Christ, in part, because they have modern prophets and apostles. Yet when their prophets and apostles teach on controversial issues that have fallen out of favor in the modern LDS Church, they reject their prophet's teachings.
In this video, I respond to some of the comments I received on a recent video we produced about whether or not God had a god above himself (link to that video: • MORMONS & CHRISTIANS R... ). Many of the Mormon responses argued that Mormon beliefs don't teach that Heavenly Father has a god, yet that has been certainly taught by LDS Prophets and Apostles-starting with Joseph Smith.
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#lds #christian #GodLovesMormons #mormon #church #apologetics #god #theology #prophet #apostle #mormonism #mormons
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Here's a link to the original video where I interview both Latter-day Saints and Evangelicals and ask them, "Does God the Father have his own god?": ruclips.net/video/y0OQx6vDz4Q/видео.html
If LDS claim this is not official, then they never read the pearl of great price.
So what? Are not John 14:28 and Isaiah 9:6 both true scripture?
If the Bible is not authorative then we will believe anything and therein is the problem with our LDS friends.
But your LDS friends don’t believe just “anything”.
It's always struck me how readily many Mormons will dismiss some of these teachings by their former prophets / authorities as being purely speculative, and yet somehow they will still sustain them as having been qualified leaders. If even a lay member was going around in a Christian church teaching that God was once a man and that He might have worshipped His own god, then that member would immediately be subjected to church discipline, if not outright disfellowshipped. If even a lay member is held accountable in this way, how much moreso should a leader be accountable for their words? No qualified church leader should be so reckless as to make unfounded claims that drastically change or undermine what the Bible teaches about God.
Is it really such a corrupt doctrine that God was once a man? Isaiah 9:6?
@@AdamEyers Doesn't it refer to Jesus?
@@diroyparulian2387 Yes it does refer to Jesus who is also God and the express image of his Father. Hebrews 1:3.
@@AdamEyers Point me to a source in the Bible where it says that? Otherwise, this is ridiculous speculation founded on nothing more than delusion. We know how to test prophets and this idea doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
@@jonathanbonde8808 Where it says what specifically?
It is interesting just how quickly members of the LDS faith will shun its own beliefs the exact moment the belief becomes unsavory or taboo.
As a latter day saint I don't necessarily disagree with this. I've seen few members where they denounce the polygamy and say it was not commanded by God, and that LGBT people should be able to have gay marriage in the temples, or shy away from our exaltation doctrine. To those that are like that i wonder why they are even in the church.
I dont shy away from my beliefs and many others in my ward would follow along.
You wanna know what a false prophet is? Someone who gets on RUclips and preaches division between believers in Christ. Here’s what we believe. We believe Jesus is the god of the Old Testament, who came in the flesh and revealed to his disciples that he has a father in heaven who is his god, and our god. And that’s all we know for sure. Prophets words do not become doctrine unless the prophet and apostles agree in unison that the new doctrine is true. If that doesn’t happen, it doesn’t become doctrine. So the Father may very well have a god. And you can scoff at that. But the fact is, you don’t know because your not in heaven with god. You just assume you know, and then, in your smugness, you make assumptions about our doctrine and our prophets, and what we actually believe. And you supposedly do this in the name of Christ, who preaches nothing but love and unity. I’ve seen multiple videos of yours and they are all about how you are right and the filthy mormons are wrong. When the apostles told Jesus that others were claiming to speak and act in his name. Jesus said something along the lines of, if they aren’t against us, they are with us. That is the spirit of Christ. What spirit is driving you I wonder
🤔🤔🤔. It’s sad when someone focus’s so hard on learning to use Jesus to tear down others that they forget to learn his message.
@@nashmcintosh2578 multiple videos of mine? I’ve never produced a video that touched on theology. I’m not sure what you would have been watching.
@@nashmcintosh2578Jesus IS the one and only God, in the flesh (ie, God the Son). Those who don’t believe in this are not Christians.
Also, a false prophet is someone who claims to be speaking for God but is not.
@@BrendonKing I’m sorry. I meant to post this as a comment on this video. Not as a response to your comment. My mistake.
This makes me wonder how can Latter Day Saints expect us to even consider that their prophets might be prophets if they don’t even treat their prophets like prophets?
1689 Cigars, Agreed. And yet , they get so
upset if we bring this up...
If the term "thrown under the bus" didn't exist, it would have to be invented to describe what current Mormon leaders do to the previous Mormon leaders, esp the leaders and prophets between 1844 to 1900s.
Thanks for the video. Infinite regression was plainly taught by Mormon prophets and leadership since the inception of the church by Joseph Smith. It was a hallmark of their theology for 150 years. It wasn’t until the 90’s and early 2000’s that a shift began taking place in which Mormon leadership began backpedaling on the idea of God having a Father he once worshipped and so on. If you had a conversation with a Mormon outside the temple in the 80’s, they would fight tooth and nail for the idea of infinite regression being an eternal truth.
Part of the rebranding of Mormonism the last two or three decades has been the shedding of the name “Mormon” and shying away from some of their more contentious theological teachings as a way to integrate themselves as another normal denomination of Christianity. I love my Mormon friends and neighbors and pray often that they would come to know the One True Eternal God.
I agree with you. It's exactly what I was taught growing up as Mormon (infinite regression), but they're changing their tune now.
Confused by what you’re saying! Infinite regression? Please explain - give examples!
We have tons more understanding of Biblical passages due to LDS prophets. That I’m grateful even if they are not perfect such as Abraham and Jacob (polygamists) David (adulterer and writer of the Bible), Moses (murderer) any Peter (who denied Christ not just once but thrice). Why are you so sparing of ancient prophets yet perfectionalize in your own way, the leaders the Lord has called in our day?
@@JasonChoate-xg3be Name one instance of "more understanding of Biblical passages due to LDS prophets". Thanks.
Hard to know where to start but 1. True nature of Godhead (yes prophet Stephen SAW Jesus on the right hand of God) Acts 7:56. 2. Jesus the literal son of God Luke 1:35 “Power of the MOST HIGH will OVERSHADOW you”. 3. Holy Bible is word of God yet doesn’t contain all witnesses testimonies nor all of God’s words. God for one never declared it but also John 21:25 states it’s impossible to contain all of God’s dealings. Not understanding why evangelicals are so quick to dismiss the possibility of more knowledge . They seem to worship their own variety of interpretations of Bible verses (44,000+) rather than seeking to know God’s will today through the SAME process he has always done when revealing his will - prophets Amos 3:7. 4. The true understanding of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice not only on the cross but while in the Garden of Gethsemane suffering for not only our sins but of our tribulations to know how to succor is. Why the evangelicals dismiss the Garden part is beyond me. There are many more examples of provided clarity to understand God’s love and expectations of us His children. It’s helpful to have prophets who like many in ancient times taught the doctrines of Christ.
@@JasonChoate-xg3be Really? Let me ask you: does the current "prophet, seer and revelator" of the Brighamite LDS religion endorse your views? If so, where?
I was LDS. Its your culture and mental framework in understanding who God is. Challenging that is like being told your parents really aren't your parents and your spouse never loved you. It's incredibly hard for them to absorb.
It’s hard to absorb because your teaching of Trinity makes no sense give the evidence in the Holy Bible.
A being who, I guess, appeared out of thin air. Got bored and wanted to create some kind of minions? For what purpose?
@@JasonChoate-xg3be thats not the trinity
Not understanding you! Please explain further your comment! What’s not the Trinity?
Ex LDS here. Why are they teaching this now? What exactly is the point of temple marriage now? This is HUGE in the LDS church. Temple marriage you are sealed to your spouse FOREVER and can get your own planet.
Get your “own planet”? please! How about an eternal relationship as a family to your loved ones, eternal progression of experience/increase, and creation ?….which HEY WE do that in this Life whatta ya know!
If you’re going to discredit the doctrine of eternal progress, please preach to me what are the purposes of God? Why was this being (I guess made out of thin air) riding solo for I assume a long time to then decide to make a random creation of I guess several billion minions? Not exactly like him? Why? What was the goal/expectation?
@@JasonChoate-xg3be Real Christians are all one family, one temple, who are "one" and will be united with _each other_ and with Jesus forever. (John 17:21, Gal 3:26-29) The eternal position im Christ is, "No _male_ or _female"_ no gender, "no Jew or Greek" no race, "no rich or poor" no classes. "You are all _one_ in Christ Jesus." No need for any "eternal marriages" between individuals or "sealings" nonsense that Joseph Smith invented to support his adultery which he called "plural marriage" and is condemned by even the Book of Mormon. Mormonism is as phony as a $3 bill and mocks the true unity of those who are one with Christ and one with each other, and stands accursed. (Galatians 1:6-9) There is only One Eternal Family. Those who are One with Jesus.
@@JasonChoate-xg3be Moreover, God does not dwell in temples made with hands. (Act 17:24). Christians are the True Temple. (Eph 2:21, 1 Cor 3:16) The entire body of Christ is the True Priesthood (1 Pet 2:9) The True Priestly Sacrifice is given oneself totally to God. (Rom 12:1) The word "service" is from the Greek _lutreia_ which refers to religious service, and was used in the LXX in reference to the activities of the temple priests. Christian "priestly service" is a holy life. Jesus _himself_ is the "garment" of Christians. "For all of you who were baptized into Christ have *clothed yourselves* with Christ." (Gal 3:27) The Greek word there is "enduo", where we get the English word "endow." It means to wrap yourself with a garment. _Jesus himself_ is the "garment". This is the true "endowment." The Mormon "garments" are superfluous. Joseph Smith didn't know New Testament Christian theology very well. All of his priesthood stuff is counterfeit and superfluous, and Paul would have condemned it. (Gal 1:6-9). Mormons have a different Jesus, spirit and gospel (2 Cor 11:4), and the Mormon apostles are false apostles. (2 Cor 11:13-15) Oddly enough, even the Book of Mormon condemns the all the post Book of Mormon theology that Joseph Smith (and Sydney Rigdon) invented. (3 Nephi 11:40 ). As for the Hebrew temple, the priests did not do sealings, marriages, baptisms for the dead, or any of the Mormon inventions. They ritually sacrificed animals. Their service was merely symbolic of the Christian reality. (Heb 10:1, Col 2:17) Christians "sacrifice" themselves by living a holy life. (Rom 12:1)
Is there an official definition of what is official doctrine that can pass its own test for officiality?
Unsure - though I've heard a good number of Latter-day Saints tell me that it requires unanimous agreement of the First Presidency and the 12 in an official statement/proclamation to be considered official.
😊@@GLM good point I was going to bring this up in the comments.
I will say I like your content even though I am a believing member of the Church.
@@jaredheath3642 glad your here. Believing members provide a valuable perspective. My follow up question is that if what GLM just said is true, how can it be official true if it has not passed its own test for officiality? Seems like the only solution is that if the brethren came out to officially announce what is official doctrine. Then that would be an official definition. Otherwise, what anyone says is official is only someone’s unofficial opinion. Does that make sense?
@@bryanpratt5850 yea it makes sense. I suppose if the brethren haven't made any official stance is because it's not in the top priority for them and they have their reasons. Personally I would really like it if they affirmed what Joseph Smith and early prophets about how Heavenly Father obtained his glorified body. Ultimately though I don't think it quite matters if we know the answers of Heavenly Father's past life just yet, people have a hard time accepting it even in the church, and I believe we should focus of Jesus Christ since we know far more about him than our Father, I believe prophets receive different revelation and guidance for their day and tasks, so just because the leaders don't talk about it doesn't mean they are not believing in it. I don't talk about infinite regression much with people, as I view it as both sacred and controversial, but when I do feel prompted I share my beliefs on it. I do believe when Jesus comes in the second coming all will be answered, so if I'm wrong and Christians are right about the trinity, or the lds church is right, we will wait to see. I appreciate how kind you have been though. I respect your guys beliefs as well and try to be understanding about them.
@@jaredheath3642True, but also let’s not forget that LDS members are taught to receive what comes from the pulpit, spoken by their prophets and apostles during sessions of the General Conference, to be official teaching.
If one looks at the dates of some of the now disavowed teachings by Brigham Young in the Journal of Discourses, for example, they will be able to verify that he taught them during GC. For the members back then, it was as official as it comes.
Currently, Mr. Nelson has been teaching church members in GC, that the utilization of the word “Mormon” deeply insults the Lord, so all members I know have taken that to heart very seriously, as a factual truth, because their prophet has said so.
As in times past, today also, no devoted LDS leaves any official session of the GC dismissing what was taught there by stating that, “well, since it’s not official, I don’t have to obey any of it.” So, this type of argument is not applied across the board, but seemingly, just to what is a source of embarrassment for modern Mormonism.
If the Bible says there is no gods before me in Isaiah then anything about Mormon Prophet says goes against the book of Isaiah if it says different
Na, understanding the Bible it acknowledges other Gods feom beginning to end.. but for that you need to understand the rethoric, grammatic and rerhorical background and what things meant when they were written.
For example, Isiah also personifies cities and says there is none other city, which means only that city is of relevance, but not to say no other cities exist.
So, context matters,and the academic consensus actually agrees more with the Mormons in that matter..
@@SimonDaumMusicAcademics of BYU sure. (Surprise Surprise the Mormon University is pro Mormon).
Latter-day Saints don't venerate the prophets, and don't view them or their writings as infallible. Protestants do think prophets are infallible (hence their belief in the infallible writings of the prophets in the Bible). They project their understanding of perfect prophets onto LDS leaders and of course nobody can live up to those standards. Keep in mind, infallibility was not the standard Jesus gave of true disciples and prophets, but instead their love for others and their fruits.
Latter-day Saints do embrace theosis, meaning the highest glory in heaven is for people to become like God, inheriting all that He has. And Jesus taught that He only did what He saw the Father do. This has naturally led some, even prophets, to speculate how that would extend out. But such speculations are not required beliefs to be a Latter-day Saint and why you may get an array of opinions.
Joseph: When was there a father without a son or a son without a father?
God: “To whom will you liken me?” Is. 40:25
Can you LDS guys here explain how LDS views Isaiah 43: 10, 11?
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
1 corinthians 8:5-6. Although there are many God's, we worship ONE God the Father and his son Jesus Christ. It doesn't matter how many God's there are, it matters that you worship only one.
And the LDS do. It appears that GLM is more focused on this these days than the LDS are.
Thank you for the kind question.
Isaiah is speaking on behalf of the Lord, to idolaters. The Lord (who will in the future, become the Lamb of God and our Lord and Savior). He is saying beside me, and besides me, there is no other Savior. Especially one made out of wood, stone or a molten image.
Consider Isaiah 42:1 Is this not the Father speaking of His Son?
“Let US make man in OUR own image”! Explain this one!
As to your question - my response is this:
If my dad were to say to me “I am the only father.” How can that statement be true and yet false at the same time?
He is my ONLY father (on this earth) yet he is not the only father existing on Earth. My dad as my father was the only one (male parent) I followed/honored while I was growing up til he holds that title.
Why is this difficult to understand?
Plus Isaiah is pointing out idols which we have today. Yes God is the only god to worship/honor
Jer 23:21 "I did not send these prophets, But they ran. I did not speak to them, But they prophesied.
And that Brigham Young taught that God told him Adam and Eve were the father and mother of our spirits, and that Adam was the physical father of Jesus.
There is no regression worshipping God is the ultimate form of progression. There is One God
Its a common sense that if God our heavenly father is exalted man then he had both earthly father and mother as well as heavenly father and mother.
You are a believing member I am guessing? If so, what is your opinion why we know so little about this and why has our current general authority seemed to avoid talking about this?
@@jaredheath3642Because the leaders of the church are trying to focus on Christ! It doesn't matter if God had a father. It only matters that Jesus is the Savior and what we can do to follow him. GLM focuses alot on this while the LDS leaders focus on Christ.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m hey good answer, brother/sister. I happen to agree with you.
Can you LDS guys explain how LDS views Isaiah 43: 10, 11?
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
Your thoughts please?
I normally use common sense.your earthly biological father is only one man and he is the only owner of your home but that does not mean there are no other homes else were with other fathers. This galaxy , milk way universe belongs to one God elohim who is our heavenly father and has over 300 billion earths like this one who God created through jesus christ. So isaah 43:10 makes it clear that it belong to one God but this does not mean in other universe there are no other Gods but we dont recognised them becouse they are not our Gods same ways we dontrecognised other earthly father who are not our father. Very little on this doctrine is revealed and we are canselled not to share doctrine which not in out standard works
"If You Could Hie to Kolob" sets silly lyrics to an otherwise great Irish folk song.
For those who can’t reverence anything HOLY ya that makes sense to be something silly in your mind.
I find the statement ironic that "promises that are made to us that we may become like him" by Joseph Fielding Smith. That belief held by Mormons isn't a promise at all. Read Genesis 3 again. That is a statement made by the Nachash/serpent, not a promise from God. Nachash is telling them that they will not die, but will attain knowledge of good and evil, like God had....nothing past that. Every belief they have is like this. There pretty much all catch 22's or just circular
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE LIKE TO SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT LDS AND OTHER RELIGION OR THE PURPOSE OF REAL CHRISTIANITY IS TO UNITE EVERYTHING LOVE THE WHOLE WORLD AND LDS TEACHES THAT WE CAN BE GOOD PEOPLE
For the same reason that Mormon missionaries go door to door
This month GLM focuses on if God has a father while the LDS focus on reading General Conference talks that talk about believing in Christ, the Atonement, finding happiness and serving others.
Except that if you believe in a god that has a god, your Christ doesn't exist, your Atonement is meaningless and powerless, and you'll die in your sins and face the wrath of the true God because you don't know Him.
@austinnajar sir, would you torture someone? Or stand by while someone was tortured? Why or why not?
maybe you don't understand why I asked what I did. I assume you would say you would NOT torture or stand by while someone was being tortured.
But your God will do so.
Even when he knows people are fallible and will think fallible at times about him and all things. Even with reading the Bible! (which was written by fallible people).
Why do you worship him? This is what I don't understand.
Do you think God has no empathy for his fallible creation?
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m I worship God because He is worthy of worship. He is righteous and holy and good on a level beyond my ability to even come close to comprehending. He is also just, and even your own scriptures say mercy can't rob justice. So why shouldn't God punish those who refuse to repent of their sin and accept the salvation provided through the cross of Jesus?
Also, the Bible may have had men put pen to paper but every word of it was inspired directly by the Holy Spirit which means they are the very words of the living God. So unless you believe God is fallible, the words in the Bible are not. And the words in the Bible reveal who God is. Mormons reject that God despite claiming to believe the Bible and so are without any sort of excuse for believing in a false god.
@@austinnajarI am happy that you will be happy in Heaven while most people are burning in Hell. Congratulations. In reality though, most people do not have an "infallible view of God" like you claim to have and will get things wrong about him. But many people who think "wrong" still love Jesus and have accepted his atonement even if they have some things wrong. Perhaps you will be watching them be tortured in Hell while you are enjoying Heaven. It is hard for me to respect you. I truly hope you will take time away from singing praises in Heaven in order to focus on the majority in Hell. Thank you.
But the bible isn't authoritive. The problems and contradictions in the bible are far more numerous than than those in the Book of Mormon. Its just that the Baptists (Pharisees), the Methodists (Saducees) and the Catholics (the Scribes) are ignoring it.
Except the 66 book Bible has no contradictions and is totally accurate.
Mormons like him don’t even know everything about The Bible.
Many of the so called problems you'd point to about the Bible would have implications for your own theology too though.
So often Mormons downplay the Bible in order to elevate their other scriptures that you'd almost be surprised they consider it scripture at all.
At some point I would love for some LDS president or apostle to sit down and declare exactly which parts of the Bible are supposedly not translated correctly or corrupted so that all of us can know what we're supposedly allowed to consider authoritative from those books at all from their perspective.
They won't do it though, because if they did they'd lose their ability to magically waive their hand and pretend that you don't have to believe the Bible when it disagrees with them.
Silly Mormons. Without the Bible you wouldn't have a leg to stand on and yet you so quickly dismiss it when it proves inconvenient. I'd encourage you to rethink your position here.
Please read Revelations 1:5-6
This describes Christ who in verse 6 says “and hath made us kings and priests unto GOD (the Father - not the created Trinity doctrine version) AND HIS FATHER (say whaaaat! 🤭) to him be the glory and dominion for ever and ever.”
This is an interesting verse knowing Jesus has His father God - making us kings and prest unto Him (the Father) to then add the words “and His father”. Makes ya wanda 🤔!
Every preacher who quotes the warning in the Bible to beware of false prophets thinks by quoting this scripture they are immune from being a false prophet. Right or wrong? True or false? It's true, so beware of preachers point their finger at other churches to establish themselves as true teachers. Christ means anointed one of God, so every time a preacher says he teaches correctly about the Bible he is teaching he is anointed of God to teach the Bible correctly, he is saying he is a Christ.
Most preachers do not understand the apostle Paul in the Bible, and think he is teaching that no works can save you, when he is really teaching that the works of the Law of Moses cannot save you from sin, because they do not require you to change from your spirit to obey them. For example, Christ said, Your righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharasees or you will in no way enter the kingdom of God. Then He went on to say, They said of old time, Thou shalt not kill, but I say unto you, love even your enemy. To love everyone requires our spirit to change. It also requires work. A person might never kill anyone, and thereby keep that part of the law of Moses perfectly, and not be delivered, saved, from sin, because they hate, envy, backbite, but if a person loves all people he is saved from sin. Christ thought that not committing adultery is not enough to enter the kingdom of God, you must not lust after a person who is not your spouse. To not lust requires a person to change from their spirit to obey. If a person never fornicates or commits adultery they have lived that part of the law perfectly, but they are not saved from sin, because they hate. If a person obeys Christ and loves all people, they are saved from sin. If a person never listed, and never hated they would not need Christ's atonement, but because we have all hated, and lusted, we all need the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Where Paul teaches salvation is a free gift through faith in Jesus Christ, he means faith in His teachings also. He means we no longer have to pay for sacrifice items to pay for our own sins, lest any many should boast, Christ paid for our sins, so we need only to have faith in Jesus Christ and obey His teachings to be saved. That is why Paul teaches in Hebrews, salvation is for those who obey Him, (Jesus). And in other scriptures, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
To better understand Paul, every time he says works add off the law of Moses, even when he says righteous works, as in Titus, and you will begin to understand Paul.
Now you can know if a teacher is a false Christ, a false prophet, if what they teach does not require a person to obey Christ to be saved., everything Christ taught.
Did God have a God (Father)? Christ is God, and He has a Father. Christ prayed to His Father, I pray that they, (His disciples) are one, as you and I are one. This, and other scriptures show us that the oneness of God is oneness in unity, as in Adam and Eve were married by God and were to become one
I think it is possible that the universe expands and contracts, and that we have lived this life and trillions of years beyond this life and infinite number of times, and that every time the universe expands again the same super intelligent Spirit we know of as God organized everything again, so our one God is always the same one God, but I might be wrong. We go only by Thus sayeth the Lord statements by our prophets as doctrine, but we like to think of the possibilities.
If your teachings do not require a person to obey Christ to be saved, you are a false Christ
GLM. I just dont understand why you do these videos. You belong to mission church Utah and you post videos of your sermons on youtube. I listen to them sometimes but it seems like do not get many views?
Why? Should it not be that God will lead people to the truth (you would say the truth is what you teach in your sermons) without the need for clickbait and bringing other belief systems into the mix.
So many people view these videos because people are fallible and like to argue.
If the truth is as simple as you say it is, just post the sermons from mission. church utah.
God is not s person. There are three persons in God. God is a state of being. No matter how many persons inherit all that God has, there is still only one God
Imbedded traditions and beliefs in creeds/what is acceptable among the masses over time with the limitations they (early Christianity) had. My invitation is to study the Bible thoroughly to see some traditional “doctrines” (Trinity, Heaven/Hell that’s it, Grace only “Just believe” James 2:19 - difference just don’t add up.
GLM doesn't understand just because presidents and other members taught that dosen't mean it's doctrine. There is a difference between a thought that has been passed down and "thus saith the lord". Prophets can have their thought process. And there is no scripture that goes against what they said. Trust me, if record keeping was better kept back in ancient times, I'm pretty sure noah and moses said some controversial things.
Also, GLM, do better. Quote the entire verse in Matthew. " by there fruits, ye shall know. Don't cherry pick
Those specific teachings absolutely do go against explicit teachings in the Bible where God says that He is the First and the Last and apart from Him there is no God (Is 44:6-8). And of Christ: all things that were created were created by Him (meaning He is uncreated) (Colossians 1:16-17). So if Joseph, Brigham, and others taught something that was unauthorized and yet radically redefined who God is in direct violation of Scripture, then they disqualified themselves as church leaders.
Then how do you explain D&C section 132? If "prophets can have their thought processes" then just imagine the thought process that Joseph Smith had to undergo in order to gaslight and manipulate his wife into accepting other women into their marriage relationship and even by putting God's name on it.
And since you mention Matthew, let's go there! When I was LDS I used king James but I m quoting from the New English Translation
15 Watch out for false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravening wolves.
16 You will recognize them by their fruit. Grapes are not gathered from thorns or figs from thistles, are they?
17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree is not able to bear bad fruit, nor a bad tree to bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So then, you will recognize them by their fruit.
What is the fruit that comes from these "modern prophets," from Joseph Smith all the way to Russell Nelson?
Confusion. Chaos. Narcissistic behavior (D&C 132). Shall I continue?
Codeman966, do better!
GLM is a contender for a wolf in sheep’s clothing or being a false prophet. The Bible does brush by the doctrine of their being multiple gods and a hierarchy of gods. Deuteronomy 10:17, Joshua 22:22, Psalms 82:10, Psalms 86:8, Psalms 95:3, Psalms 136:2, Daniel 11:36. GLM is an age old anti-Mormon plain and simple. His ministry is not about teaching Christ it’s about tearing down Mormonism and anything extra biblical. What a short sighted teacher. True seekers can study and know the truth directly from the source of all truth, which the evangelist will never teach, is not the Bible; 1 Corinthians 12:3, Matthew 16:17, Moroni 10:4,5.
Except those "gods" are obviously meant to be fallen angels. They're original purpose was to be equivalent to a local lord (Intercessory angel) of a certain people but they became corrupted and abused They're power and role and instead claimed to be "gods" worthy of worship.
@@supergoji7511 So are you saying the Bible is wrong in calling them gods and not fallen angels? That what actually should have been written is ‘Our God is a God of fallen angels”?
@user-qp8ln2yt8r so in exodus when it says that YHWH will execute judgment on the "gods of Egypt" you literally believe those are good spirit beings worthy of worship?
@@supergoji7511 The gods of Egypt are not the gods that our God is the God of.
The Mormons are very prone to discarding or altering doctrines quite rapidly.
First, knowing if God has a father is not directly pertinent to my salvation. Therefore it’s not going to be something emphasized at church meetings.
The fact is we don’t know everything and it’s OKAY. The prophets can only share what has been revealed according to the Lord. They can do no more. Stop excusing ancient prophets areas of lack and trying to place modern prophets on the perfection tribunal! Not everythang will be revealed all at once black and white. I believe God would actually likes us to exercise some thought, faith and hope. In theory this makes sense according to the plan he has revealed. Why are you so against such a theory if that were to be true. Just odd, to be so distraught.
If my dad had said to me, his son, “I am the only father. “ How is that statement true yet false at the same time? He is MY father of whom (he being righteous) I can follow and honor through obedience yet my dad is not the only father in this world.
Please read Revelation 1:5-6
2:02 not that God has a God. Both the father and son are God.
So many passages to debunk that 4th century “let’s come up with something” doctrine of the Trinity. But you are entitled to believe traditions as you may.
Isaiah 44:6,8 6. ♥Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts;
I a m t h e f i r s t, a n d I a m t h e l a s t; a n d b e s i d e m e, t h e r e i s n o G o d.
8. Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses.
I s t h e r e a G o d b e s i d e m e? y e a, t h e r e i s n o G o d; I k n o w n o t a n y.
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: b e f o r e m e h e r e w a s n o G o d f o r m e d, n e i t h e r s h a l l t h e r e b e a f t e r m e.❤
Does God have a God?
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
I don't think this means what you think it means. Jesus always pointed back to the Father who sent Him. The video topic is clearly addressing the problem of infinite regression. As in, does the Father that Jesus refers to in this passage you quoted have a Father of His own? I'm not sure what you're trying to say by quoting that verse.
Smith inferred that God would have had a God in a sermon he gave at a funeral for King Follett.
"We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
These are incomprehensible ideas to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did".
That should be clear enough. If God at any point was not God, and in fact dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did, then someone else was apparently His god during that time by that teaching. And if the same were true for that God then at some point He would have had to have dwelt on an earth too and so on and so forth.
This is an illogical, and explicitly NOT Christian teaching.
@@MBiggens My point is that if Jesus Christ lived on earth like a man and is also “the mighty God, the everlasting Father” (Isaiah 9:6) then the doctrine of God having a God is neither illogical or unChristian but is in fact a fundamental part of Christianity.
@user-qp8ln2yt8r Thanks for clarifying, though I still don't see how that would've been implied from the passage in John you quoted alone.
Just to probe further, you seem to be implying that God could have remained God while dwelling on an earth like Christ and yet the whole premise set up by Smith in getting to that point is that God was not God from all eternity. He specifically stated that that's exactly what he's refuting. How do you square that?
@@MBiggens Well Christ was not fully God from all eternity but was exalted to that prominent position. Philippians 2:8-9. Where in the Bible does it actually say that the Father had eternally been God?
@@AdamEyers Psalm 90:2 would be a good place to start.
"Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God."
Quoted the KJV just to make things easier.
Wrong. Our Prophet is in fact God's Prophet on the esrth.
As a former member, born and raised in the LDS church, I too once believed the Mormon “prophets” were true prophets of God. But then I realized I wasn’t being spiritually honest and intellectually honest with myself. A sincere and unbiased look into the history of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young shows us they both were false prophets, teaching blasphemy and proven failed prophecies. The official LDS “Gospel Topic Essays” actually admit to a lot of this. I encourage you to read these official church essays!
Dude, its quite simple, most Mormons dont care much about whether God had a Father because its not vital for salvation and not whats discussed at church. To Mormons, Prophets are men called of God, men that also have opinions and meanings. Fact is that there is no clear revelation on the matter.. So, whats he point here...
Cherry picking things like that is something we could also do with the Bible, and there is plenty of material thats evem more obscure.. even have Prophets that had to be corrected by God..why? Because even Prophets can at times speak of themselves, and yet still be considered a prophet..
I have been thinking about you and praying for you. I hope you are doing well. I agree with you. Whether the LDS have it right about God having a father or not, they are not focused on that. They are focused on the Atonement and learning to be like Christ.
GLM is more focused on this than the LDS at this time.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m Excactly..I mean, look what the fruits of Evangelism were around the time of Josph...That needed to be discussed by evangelicals, its their own history...
Thanks for your prayed..my life remains crazy, but I trust God
Excellent
You can say you find big problems with literally anything you want. Doesn’t mean there is. You may need to look at the lds philosophy towards official doctrine better..
Here is one tid bit on the lds approach. There are hundreds of cases in history where members (leaders) have been bit by preaching and declaring things authoritatively they don’t understand well or only have a vague understanding of, then find out later it is absolutely and unequivocally false, haha. There is an underlying rule in the church that most people follow now-a-days, that is: Just because leaders in past have said things doesn’t mean it is absolute truth. So leaders now often err on the side of scripture for official church doctrines as well as constant repeated ideas that have presented publicly and OFTEN with scriptural support from current church leaders. Everything else is cool and all, but is not core to what drives the mission of the church, and why would it?
Outside of the official stance of things though ( which really only means, stuff that the church will ultimately stand behind in all cases) , what makes the LDS approach to doctrine sooooo amazing is it is open to the idea of any and all truth. And is constantly taking great care to verify and validate all things preached in official settings. But will never discount such a idea as “gods have gods” if it turns out that there is enough evidence for it and will quickly reject an Idea if it turns out to be false.
Clearly leaders don’t teach it because they don’t know anything about it. Just because there are a few random quotes about in a two hundred year history, is not enough to have it be official church doctrine preached in Sunday schools or other official settings.
This kind of stuff is for individual followers to seek out and learn for themselves and for themselves to find the truth or falseness of it (which the church doesn’t try to prevent). It may be true, but it makes no difference to the mission of the church if it is or isn’t. So why is it problematic that the organization doesn’t preach it? To often people will mock the church for things like this, but it’s mission isn’t to preach everything ever said by every person, it’s mission is to bring people to Christ.
OK, so let me clear this up first so Jesus Christ is the god of the Old Testament, the New Testament the book of Mormon and all our other doctrines. Christ said he had a father meaning he has a father of God above him that’s where that comes from. Christ taught us the manner of prayer. The father of the son in the Holy Spirit is so you should pray so that’s where you get that as well. Christ claim to be the son of God meaning That he is the son of God. So of Christ is the son of God and he has a father that makes him a God because the father’s God Jesus Christ is God of the Old Testament it just makes sense.
Yea so since Jesus has a father it only makes sense that our Father would have a father too. How else would our Father in heaven gain a glorified body?
What is your stance on the matter?
Every religion has unanswered questions. Don’t know why you think you found a gotcha moment to prove you’re smarter or something. We are individually responsible in developing faith in Jesus Christ and building his kingdom. There is a reason the LDS church has millions of members across the globe. Temples everywhere where ordinances of salvation are performed for the living and the dead and let’s not forget the billions of dollars spent in humanitarian aid.
It’s pretty straightforward: Either Joseph and other leaders taught truth as revealed to them by God, or they recklessly taught something that radically changed what Scripture taught about God without any authorization. If the former, then all LDS should believe it. If the latter, then Joseph and the others should be rejected as Church leaders, which undermines the foundation of the LDS Church itself.
Every religion has unanswered questions, but leave them as unanswered instead of just making stuff up.
@@georgebauerschmidt5289there is nothing wrong with using your brain to contemplate possibilities as long as it doesn't take away from your focus on Christ. It appears to have taken away GLM's focus on Christ.
@@Imtryingtobelikejesus-m1m how is it taking off focus on Jesus? That's funny coming from an organization that sings "Praise to the Man". You are making stuff up. there's also a huge difference between speculation for fun and making up doctrine based on speculation.
@@georgebauerschmidt5289 "Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah." These are the lyrics to that song, it is praising our prophet for speaking to our God, Jesus. I don't see how that song takes the focus off of Jesus when Joseph Smith restored the church through the power of God by the authority of Jesus.
The Bible is a compilation of snippets of Jewish history and their relationship with the living God. Bible based religion, or traditional Christianity is the attempt by men to approximate, recreate or reflect that story, manufacturing something of an image. As such, it isn't a continuation of Gods work with his people. It is more like a Hollywood movie based on a true story. The difference between a movie and traditional Christianity is that the actors in the movie know they are pretending. But the actors in Traditional Christianity believe they are children of God and members of his congregation. But like actors, they can only repeat what is written, and add nothing. It is a dead end because it is the work of men and not a continuation of Gods work. Granted the story is wholesome. But it is vain to claim that their repetitive act of Jewish history is real. What is real is that it is somewhat insane. So who are these pretenders to judge what is or isn't of God, when all they know is about him rather than to actually know him or he them. The scripts they shout...Those Mormons have strayed from the script, making Mormons blasphemous enemies to God! Yea they are a cult! Keep in mind that these insane pretenders of the tradition are so steeped in their own delusion that they think they are qualified to judge in matters of God. I don't know if it is sad or comical. And while the concepts and principles in the gospel of Jesus Christ are timeless and universal. So too is the vanity and presumption of people.
I’m not totally clear on what you are saying. If the events in the New Testament are true, then Christianity is true. Which events are you saying didn’t happen?
@@BNichols021 Were bible based religion or traditional Christianity true, as in the continuation of Gods work and people. Then there would be one Church, one gospel and one Christ. And the work of God would continue with prophets, apostles and holy men of God. Instead we have tens of thousands of differing denominations, with no two alike in interpretation or understanding of scripture.
So it has become tens of thousands of different gospels and Christs. There are no more testimonies of God in traditional Christianity as found in the gospels of his apostles. Instead it is all repetition of what has already happened as found in the Bible.
Tradition has it that Gods work is done. And the bible is the record. So it is to them to repeat or reflect what is found therein. But if Gods work is done, then where does that leave traditional Christianity but outside and walled off. If Gods work is done, then Christianity doesn't serve God. It serves itself by attempting to recreate godliness according to scripture. But all the denominations are different. So it isn't contiguous to name it Christianity. It is nearer to babel collectively.
This is why God restored his true Church and authority thru Joseph Smith, who could have been anybody. But God chose him to establish and continue Gods work of reclaiming Israel and the salvation of his people.
@@jeffwilson4693if God revealed all that needs to be known about Himself in the Bible, and if Christ did all the work necessary for our forgiveness and reconciliation with God, then your presuppositions are wrong. In that case, we would not need ongoing revelation and miraculous experiences to serve and love God as He wants, given that He has explicitly told us how to do this in His word. God isn’t changing, and His requirements from us aren’t changing, so there is no need for the kind of constant revelation that you seem to be expecting.
@@BNichols021 Where is it written that Gods work is done? Who says that God cannot say or do more? Who mutes God? Why designate yourselves Christian as if of one accord when you are not. But are tens of thousands of different denominations, each with a different gospel and consequently each with a different Christ. Why the deceit? Why make God out to be a liar, and yourselves the bringers of light and truth. Gods work didn't wrap up and end when his prophets, his Son, his Sons Apostles and early Church members were all put to death. It was the beginning of the ascension of perdition. God withdrew his Church because of iniquity. Then he restored it about fifteen hundred years later thru a fourteen year old boy named Joseph Smith, which to God is about a day or so later. Mary was the same age at her conception by the Holy Spirit. Sorry to have to say it, but the religious practice parading as Christianity is a hoax. And waving the Bible doesn't qualify the crime.
@@jeffwilson4693the Bible doesn’t say that there won’t be more revelation, but it does warn against exactly the kind of teachings taught in the LDS Church
I’ll clarify this even better god the Father god the son and the Holy spirt are three distinct beings.
Question 1: How could Jesus have been a god at the beginning of the world (John 1:1), and how could he have become god in the flesh (John 1:14), when he had not yet incarnated and gone through an earthly life yet, and not yet made that "eternal progression" that is required for godhood? (In other words, how could Jesus become a god before he had yet gone through the steps required for godhood, according to LDS theology?)
Question 2: How can the Holy Spirit be a god when he has apparently never gone through any sort of eternal progression, not even possessing a tangible body?
Question 3: If God the Father (LDS: Elohim) and Jesus are literal Father and Son (I don't believe that but I get how someone can misunderstand it that way), how is the Holy Spirit related to them? Brother? Uncle? Godfather? Friend of the family? I'm not being flippant; it just seems kind of weird and murky.
@@The_Autistic_Christian Us Latter Day Saints have two understandings of the word God. We believe Jesus was the God of the Old Testament, Jehovah. Obv he didnt have a glorified body at this point so how was he God? It is because he was our Savior, and apart of the God Head. The Holy Ghost is apart of the God Head without having a body. When it says in our beliefs that we can become Gods, it isnt saying we will be apart of the Godhead, or become a Jehovah, it is saying we will become perfect and become one with our Eternal family. Jesus was God before he got a body but then become glorified like his Father in heaven. That is my understanding of things.
@@jaredheath3642 So if you have to follow the "laws and ordinances" of the gospel in order to become a god, how could Jesus be a god before any of that? And again, how was the Holy Spirit even able to attain godhood, according to your view? Are some gods just "appointed" gods and able to bypass the process?
@@The_Autistic_Christian I tried to explain to you. The English word for God is very limited. I studied a bit of Hebrew and Greek and the words they use that translate to God are very nuanced and complex in comparison.
I've only been an active member for 70 years and I've never heard that remark from Brigham Young. I've never even read that remark, and I read a lot of Church history.
It doesn't matter though because it sounds like something Brigham Young might have said.
BTW, everyone is allowed to have personal opinions in Church and that includes the Church President and Prophet.
What is your opinion on Infinite regression?
Not all opinions are equal. If this was truly something that Joseph or Brigham were teaching apart from divine revelation, then it’s hard to come up with a list of opinions that could be more heretical, more reckless, and more destructive than a teaching that contradicts the very nature of God and undermines His supremacy as was already outline in the Bible. That would be immediately disqualifying of any church leader.
@@jaredheath3642 Infinite progression would be the only way we might ever hope to become like our Father in heaven. Infinite regression would be it's exact opposite.
Satan certainly is on the road of "infinite regression.
Since we live forever, we have the time. There are only three ways to go,.. forward, back or stop. Each person must decide for himself.
These are my own thoughts or ideas and not something I learned in church.
@@jamesbaldwin7676 Interesting opinion. I dont see why Infinite Regression would hinder infinite progression though, why would it cease? I see eternity as going forever back and forever forward. There is no end to Gods work.
@@jaredheath3642 "Infinite regression" implies a complete lack of repentance. While infinite repentance is the key to any infinite progression. I'm hoping this is possible, but may be tied to a mortal probation (which is finite and comes to an end).
The fact however, that saving ordinances are performed for the dead within temples, gives me hope. Since we after all, are infinite beings, I don't see how anything that isn't infinite, could have any permanent power over us.
Am I thinking too much again?
"Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord." - Jeremiah 23:16
Are you prophecying now? Or are you referring also to all the prophets in the Pentecostal and AOG churches who prophesy using the gift of prophecy? As Paul said that there are prophets and apostles in churches? Televangelists prophesy all the time. Are you quoting this verse against all of them then? It has to be because the verse speaks against "prophets" whereas the LDS has only one prophet at any one time.
@@Valhalla369 I'm just quoting Jeremiah 23:16. Yes, this also applies to those prophets as well.
Profitless prophets.
I am a Latter Day Saint and I do believe in infinite regression.
Would you say the current prophet and apostles of the LDS Church also believe in it? If not, then why?
@@BNichols021 not sure tbh, I guess I would have to look into it. And if they didn't believe I would say it's not revealed in our scriptures and everything is focused on Jesus Christ. You don't need to believe in this to be redeemed by Jesus, or get yo the Celestial Kingdom. I do deeply believe and have a great testimony in what the early prophets have said about infinite regression, but im not going to go around and claim others aren't latter day saints if they don't believe in this. Similar to how other Christians will claim you aren't Christian for not believing in the trinity. I try to focus on what we do agree on and focus on our Savior and our Father in heaven.
@@BNichols021 I would also add I would highly doubt if all general authority didn't believe in this.
@@jaredheath3642 "You don't need to believe in this to be redeemed by Jesus"
@@BNichols021 I understand what you are saying. From my experience I haven't seen any prophet contradict these revelations from past prophets. The most I've seen is when Hinkley is asked about it and he says idk.
In my ward people talk about these things very often. I just think we focus on more so becoming like our Heavenly father and Jesus Christ, and we focus on Jesus gaining a body more since he's our savior and he lived on our world and less on God the Father gaining his body since we know next to nothing about that. Even when I watched this guy's video on if God the Father has a god, all of the latter day saints seem very open to the idea.