Review: Currentzis Terrorized by Beethoven's Fifth
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- This much-anticipated recording lives down to our worst expectations: immaculately played, cold, expressionless, and a study in orchestral inhibition. Has this anything to do with Beethoven? (Sony Classical)
You are such a joy to watch. The lightness of being! Besides offering so much knowledge about the works you're discussing. Thank you.
Wow, thank you!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Beethoven's Fifth Gear!
David, I love your work, I'm indebted to your enthusiasm and I owe you many, many discoveries during the years so it's only fair that I LOVE to disagree with you where needed. I despise gurus and have a zero tolerance policy on bullshit, especially musical bullshit. But we're here for the music, not for the words: music (and recording) history is full of wonderful musicians that were obnoxious, vain or plain useless when speaking or writing about music. That libretto is unadulterated bullshit and Currentzis' 5th is surely not my go-to recording and not my favorite among his recordings, but it's not a joke or an abomination. I happen to find it full of emotions, just not the usual ones (and, you may argue, not always the ones that Beethoven had in mind... but I'm not so sure about that!). I find that Currentzis, almost unfailingly, has DRIVE: he's like an electrical surge passing through the music - and that current can mold, bend and even mutilate music when passing, but then... IT'S ALIVE! (cit.) He's an unpleasant, maniacal, cocky Narcissus - but I find that his performances, like razors, can leave (at least on me) a lasting impression and, well, even some scars. I just love hearing his performances, as much as I don't care for his late-to-the-party punk dressing aesthetics and Huysmans-like poses. A little craziness is part of any performing art, if it's sincere: and I find Teo's sincerity (MUSICALLY, all the rest is a poisonous mixture of ego and marketing) absolutely obvious, I can touch it with my ears and my brain in every performance of his I've listened to. Keep on listening David! And thank you for all the time you put sharing your passion, knowledge and taste with us.
Hey, if that's how you feel, then great. I respect that completely. I just think he's a control freak with a huge fear of not being taken seriously and no imagination whatsoever.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh, he's absolutely a control freak. So was Benedetti Michelangeli, so was Karajan, so was Szell, so was Toscanini, other great musicians (luckily) are not. About the imagination we can agree to disagree. ;-)
@@Zezahn I'm not complaining about the control freak part--I've played in orchestras long enough to know that all serious musicians (critics too!) are control freaks--I just like the freakishness to have an expressive or musical purpose, rather than existing only for itself. But as you say, we can (and must) agree to disagree! Thank you for commenting.
Hi David
Even great conductors have secreted mumbo-jumbo - think of Celibidache. So I think the mumbo-jumgo is irrelevant and one should focus on the music.
Also I do not think that you can judge a conductor just on recordings. Being based in the US you probably never heard him perform live. I have experienced him several times on stage: with an utterly convincing Schostakovich Lady Macbeth of Mzenzk, with a very poetic and free Berg violin concerto, with Mozart operas, with Beethoven and Mozart symphonies and violin concertos and so on. I know also several musicians who worked or work with him.
From this one can say the following: If he conducts the hall is always sold out weeks before. Agreed, he is an entertainer, but if this branch of culture wants to survive it has to fill the halls before everything else. Then he generally succeeds to generate a supercharged atmosphere in the hall and this completely grips your attention, his concerts seem therefore short (I had the same impression with Karajan in the late fifties). With the exception of Vienna Phil most orchestras like him well, e.g. this applies to Zürich Tonhalle and Zürich Opera orchestra, the Stuttgart SWR: In all these orchstras he is invited because the musicans like to work with him. In Russia he gets excellent musicians from all over the world who want to work with him. You cannot fake this. Its also not true that his conducting is necesserily metronomic: I know a soloist who is famous for very free playing who says that one can do whatever one likes and Currentzis will follow like a shadow.
Just for the record, I am 79 and have heard, Karajan, Szell, Böhm, Boulez, Kirill Petrenko, Serkin, Cziffra and whatever,, so I am perhaps easily bored but not so easily deceived.
Thank you for this, but I can only judge by what I am given and what I hear. So that is what I report.
@@DavesClassicalGuide True. But its all the people whe were electrified by his live concerts who buy (and appreciate) his records.
@@emilelaurent Thanks for your words! I was also able to experience T. Currentzis in concert and during rehearsals; he is charismatic, polite, totally focused and committed. His way of conveying music is unique and great. His interpretations have restored my enthusiasm for music and changed my life.
@@darkredrose7683 He is not a narcissist at all, he is a real guter und wahrer Mensch.
Truth is, I know a lot of talented and mostly young musicians who have joined cults before.
"Where has he been the last 40 years?" Yes! These people pretend that we're still living in the '50s and everyone plays Beethoven like late Karajan. Instead, the "revolution" is overdone already: everyone tries to play even faster and with even sharper contrasts. Every recording gets faster and faster with sharper and sharper contrasts. Nothing revolutionary about it anymore.
Yeah. Just compare Currentzis' 5th with Harnoncourt's. Similar tempi, similar drive. But Harnoncourt lets the music breathe, his interpretation is energetic but also subtle and colorful. Currentzis simply takes every musical gesture and turns it up to 11. He exaggerates everything and destroys every bit of nuance present in the work. This is what Beethoven might sound like if you had a pop producer interpret it. I get that some people might like the energy of this version but you can't sacrifice nuance just to make everything 'pop'. Harnoncourt manages to find a balance, Currentzis just doesn't care. His Mahler is pretty good though, I have to admit.
I haven’t had such a good laugh since the lockdown in March. Thank you. I hope your cat is recovering.
At 4:53 - we need that moment in a downloadable high-res Windows wallpaper. :-) Or at least for the cover image for the "Hurwitz Beethoven cycle with Wienna Philharmonic"!
Unfortunately is right. Should I check out Giulini's LAPO 5th? Our cat tends to enjoy his conducting.
Giulini's Beethoven is the cure for whatever ails your feline companion. She will purr with sheer delight -- my cats do.
ruclips.net/video/SAy3psvFWkk/видео.html
I really like this recording, although the essay was quite funny. It might have something to do with my being 17. I just feel your review is slightly blinded by your disdain for his personality.
Or by my knowledge and experience. I couldn't care less about his personality, although his seems to be ripe for a bit of ridicule.
@@DavesClassicalGuide well his self-painted messianic image is sure to throw almost everybody off, I’m sure no one really subscribes to that.
Currentzis or Norrington? Which one has the worst sound?
That's easy: Norrington, because he has nothing else.
I hope your cat is fully recovered. It would be great to see such an accurate music critic featured in one of your enjoyable videos!
Working on it! She's very shy.
So interesting this interpretation of Currentzis. You can say what you want, but he brings another interpretation into the world. I never felt as much sturm und drang in the last movement of this symphony. It really resonates with me. But that is purely personal. So glad I discovered this 5th. Looking forward what he does with the 4th...;-). And all others for sure... can't wait!
David Hurwitz is reproducing in general the same arguments contemporaries of Beethoven used to attack Beethoven himself and his 5th symphony (which was a scandal at the time and the premiere of the 5th together with the 6th symphonies were a disaster).
Currentzis brought back the 5th to nowadays paradigmas. It's an interpretation that we can understand today and not fall asleep as I usually do with regular interpretations of the fifth. God bless him.
@@guyf3115 what are those same arguments?? Lack of expressivity, balance, and proper dynamics? That was what Beethoven was criticised about? Did you actually whatch de whole video?
Currentzis is just a crappy bullshit seller, with no talent and no shame at all.
And your thoughts about the Boulez's 5th with the NPO?
Who?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Boulez' Beethoven 5 You need to do a "weirdest Beethoven 5th ever" video. That tops the list for sure...
@@brtherjohn You're probably right.
I love Boulez's version! The most underrated ever! His slow tempos just WORK. Talk about fermatas! I think Dave might actually enjoy it. ;)
I had to break away for a minute to watch part oh Teodor Currentzis on Beethoven's Humanity. I couldn't get Klaus Kinski out of my mind. Teo is a psycho like Klaus, but at least Klaus actually had some good performances.
Yikes. Can I have some of whatever he was taking when he wrote those program notes?
What do you think about the "Authenticsound" channel?
You tell me..
@@DavesClassicalGuide ruclips.net/video/Rp-xoXSg2GY/видео.html
here you can watch the video, the guy says that the Eroica's first movement (HIP version) lasts 30 minutes.
It's the musical equivalent to the cult-like following political conspiracy weirdos on the internet have.
David Hurwitz please please please do a video on how utterly ridiculous it is. It would be hilarious
Interesting, all these negative comments on this recording. It's a bit rough, but I like it. It's not boring.
I find it extremely so.
This recording was quite fun and interesting to listen to. So are your comments. A feast! Now Bernstein ...
You are so right, thanks
"Trapped in the luxurious sarcophagus of tradition." Holy crap! While I think moving forward, inventing new things, finding new ways... etc... is a good thing, it's that kind of attitude (it seems to me) that will destroy necessary tradition. What's wrong with tradition!? :-) Your review of Currentzis made me laugh, but I definitely agree. Great talk as usual! :-)
This is a shame because I really liked Currentzis' version of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring (apart from the migraine inducing cover!) and thought his Mahler Sixth was also very interesting.
As for this performance, well it struck me, as has already been noted, to allow it's mannerisms to go far beyond what might be considered legitimate interpretative latitude; the clipped note values do get tiresome, and you don't get a sense of the whole structure of the work, but just a succession of ear tickling details because he's messed around with dynamics so much. As a whole it just struck me as a quite superficial and indulgent
I know Mahler once said "What you... people call tradition is just cosiness and laziness" but I doubt he meant an interpreter should just (without sound musical reasons) ignore what's in the score. That is just indulgence and a certain type of laziness in itself.
Finally why do record labels allow artists to indulge their ego in writing pseudo-intellectual, clap-trap in the liner notes? Probably because they know it will generate a bit of contraversy (as Oscar Wilde once said "The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about”) and good possibly for sales! Really a performance should be allowed to speak for itself.
Labels really are no longer in control of their own product because they are not paying for it; the artist has backers who pay the label to distribute or who hand over a production ready-made, requiring minimal investment. I don't think Sony was in a position to exercise much control over this release, but I could be wrong....
@as I said Currentzis' has done some great stuff in my opinion (Rite of Spring, Mahler 6), but this Beethoven 5th - breathless, mannered, and completely destructive to the architecture of the piece. My go to for the Beethoven, Cluytens BPO, and the famous Carlos Kleiber. But you know what, enjoy what you enjoy!
I saw Currentzis conduct them in the Shost 7. He had the players standing up and sitting down like puppets during various loud sections. Pure theatre, zero music making.
Roll over, Beethoven.
Mercifully (only heard "act" 1) it is so fast it went by quickly.....kind of
That extensive quotation sounds strangely dated it brings me back to the voluminous post-modern mumbo Jumbo of the 1980's.
This is indeed a far cry from the commentary that artists like Leonard Bernstein made, which were made in service of the music and for the edification of the audience. This sounds just like a conductor looking on the mirror... And what for?
Currentzis' mumbo-jumbo made me laugh out loud. Priceless.
Actually Teodor never said that his truth was the only truth, actually he said and I quote "I can be mistaken, but at least I know that I feel"
That's nice. The problem is that WE don't know that he feels. Certainly the performance gives no indication of it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Maybe for you and for many other's it's not good, in fact I would say that's normal, and some other people loved it, I really liked it but I know it's not the wholy truth. I saw many of his masterclasses and personally I would say he feels, if facy I dare to say that I know he feels, and I feel Beethoven with his music, in the end it's about that, I think, and his orchestra for what I know is with him because they want to, so if they feel his music too I don't see the problem, in the end if you don't like it just listen one of your favorites, and no one, no me, no Teodor, no one can tell you if you fell or not, you can have suggestions, like he has, but if you feel Beethoven with a 20th century recording that's great. I can feel Beethoven in Teodor's recording, but I also feel Beethoven in David Zinman's version as an example, and in the same way no one can tell you or force you how to feel Beethoven's music, you can't tell me also how I should feel, or say if he feels or he doesn't, because that's not up to us to say, cause we don't know, at the end
when someone is afraid of his own ideas there he goes talking about revelations...
Thanks David, I really enjoyed your review. One thing Currentzis deserves credit for is the way he vividly highlights recordings that deserve to be much better known. At the time of writing the cost of the Currentiz LVB5# could get you a completely wonderful and neglected Beethoven cycle that contains credulous candidates for both the best 3# & 5#. I am referring to William Steinberg’s Command Classics Pittsburgh Beethoven Cycle. From what I gather engineering reasons primarily account for it's fall into obscurity in the digital age. It is now finally available in very good sound (and correctly pitched) on DG/Universal. I note this as William Steinberg was not only a superb conductor but because his art, demeanor and career could be defined as the antithesis of the trajectory that one may hope Teodor Currentiz may yet spare himself and us. With the exception of the LVB9# which is uncharacteristically episodic in it's transition to the adagio, all of Steinberg's symphonic performances that have been caught for posterity were much more than the sum of their parts. He produced two excellent recordings of LVB7# with Pittsburgh. Although superb his recording in the DG/Universal box set from 1962 is not his best. That accolade must go to a sublime reading he put down for EMI in 1957. Warner have shown them selves to be good custodians of the Karajan's EMI/HMV/Angel legacy I hope they see fit to do the same with Steinberg's EMI/Capital recordings.
The first LP I bought as a 12 year old was Beethoven 5 with the PSO. Only now 50 years after bought the LP do I realise what a great performance it is.
Have you listened to the new Beethoven recordings from Jordi Savall? Very curious as to your take, can see it going a few different directions!
No, haven't heard them (yet).
@@DavesClassicalGuide If you didn't like Currentzis one you probably won't like Savall...
"It's not playing the music, it's poking at it" But it also pokes needles into my head and soul. The interpretation is void of the humanity that is integral to Beethoven's art.
I would like to say that a critic ought not be this harsh to a professional musician, but how could you not, for him butchering your cat as well as Beethoven down to his grave.
"This is not Betthoven" to that I add it is light music with pretty sounds and chimes IMHO. "Flavor of the month" indeed!
I assumed you had read the essay so that we wouldn't have to. But oh no. You had to share the suffering around. What a painful, irredeemably stupid piece of writing. I'm sorry you had to go through that. And I'm even more sorry you took us along for the ride. But at least I locked my cat out of the room before you started. Always entertaining, Dave. Keep it up.
After listening to Currentzis's liner note, I got a headache. I hope Pipa is okay.😡
it was kind of boring with weak strings and especially for the first movement, it was just empty. from this point of view, Ferenc Fricsay was marvellous, I like his fast tempo I think it can help the solo oboe in the middle of the first movement.
p.s. I just hear the first movement completely.
You need to be kinder to your cat. This narcissistic impulse is the same one that drives directors to ruin the staging of operas, mostly beautifully sung and played but almost unwatchable.
I will never listen to that CD cause I have 4 cats😝
Thank you David . The blurb is enough to make one throw up . What is it with the Germans and every artist has to have a "concept" . Going to opera there is Russian roulette . The last thing they want to consider is the libretto and the music and to respect the composer . The Castoff Ring at Bayreuth is an example but the latest is the Tristan and Isolde at Aix . The last act in a commuter train . We are at the point where only at the Met do we get respect for the work or just resort to concert performances .
Absolutely!
“I have to stay calm..” 🤣 DH is a Giant!🙏🏻Thank You for expressing well what we think of this “new guru” of conducting
There's nothing else on the disc? It's that important??
That's smart marketing, It makes the 5th more important.
@@DavesClassicalGuide What is Beethoven's 5th if there's no humanity in it?
As Yogi Berra said, "The food at that restaurant isn't any good, and the portions are too small."
Hi David, Looking forward to your review of the fifth by François-Xavier Roth, which will released october 2020! You love that conducter too I know.
I don't love or hate anyone, really, and I've enjoyed some of Roth's recordings. I never want to prejudge. We need to listen and decide on a case by case basis.
Dave: Great rant. Listening to you go on about Currentzis is quite a κάθαρσις for me. A regular nettoyage de l'âme.
I consider Currentzis a litmus test. You passed.
"The luxurious sarcophagus of tradition"...? Seriously? Someone needs to refer Currentzis to Eliot's "Tradition and the Individual Talent." I mean, just for starters. It's all just as applicable to musicians. "Tradition" is not some passive inert thing, you gotta work with it, enliven it, engage in a creative dialogue with it! This is true for classical, for jazz, for poetry, even for spirituality. It's a living thing! To dismiss "tradition" this way is not how one does justice to Beethoven. Smh.
I was trying to imagine toscanini saying the gibberish that currentzis wrote, and almost bust a guy. It's scary that gramophone magazine and some others seem to have fallen for the scam.
Paul G.
Mr. Hurwitz, you're my hero!
I often disagree with you, but your skepticism about HIP ideology gives me life.
Don't you just love it when some nobody comes forward as the prophet of universal truth? The word that comes to mind is "charlatan".
A great Italian director once said that "film critics would like us to make films like them, if they could." It also applies to music critics, I think ... By the way, I endured 3 minutes of your "speech".
I'm with your cat.
Terrifically laugh out loud funny but also a very sad and serious point made about poseurs, if that's the right word, like Currentzis. I must have the LVB 5th fifty or sixty times over in my collection, played every which way going back to 1908 but I think the last genuine performance that offered something illuminatingly and legitimately new, about Beethoven and not about the conductor, was the Carlos Kleiber. And I've heard quite a few since that came out, some of them good, solid in the groove performances. (Norrington EMI not among those).
This sounds like the kind of interpretation that results from putting an Academic on the Conductor"s podium.
However there's a huge difference between an Academic study and a Scholarly study. Conducting is a profession of scholarly study of the Composer's intentions. Unfortunately most Academics can't cope with leaving it just at that. They must go further to change and override what's written on the manuscript paper.
I'll go back to my Karajan Berlin Philharmonic records now..........
Currentzis, the "Guru" that performs Beethoven's Fifth?! After dozen millions of Beethoven's Fifth recordings, between historical, live, HIP, and so on?! Does anyone add something new to a warhorse like Beethoven's Fifth?! It would be better if "Guru" Currentzis conveys his commitment to other repertoires...he is a very good conductor sometimes, but frankly...does anyone needs this "ritual-mystical-mytical-egomaniac" almost "wagnerian" way to perform classical music?! I think no...
Cats know a thing or two. I like Masur's Beethoven cycle but cats might not.
Oh my god it is wonderful watching you. Truly, I need only click on one of your videos, and I am embued with laughter, and new hope in humanity. You wonderful beacon of reason and good humor.
Thank you!
I feel bad for your cat, but I appreciate your warning!
lol!!! ex-qui-sit! somebody has to tell us how and why this C. guy gets sponsored and backed up...
Mr Hurwitz. Wow! A brilliant broadcast. You have a great way of exposing the bullshitters! Of which there are many. I love my Beethoven symphonies, Cluytens, Hvk, Solti (7th) Steinberg, Szell, Blomstedt, and many more, but NOT pretentiousness disguised as 'truth!!!'
Love your broadcasts. Thank you.
Enjoyed this from start to finish. Absolutely hilarious.
Now please excuse me while I descend back into my luxurious sarcophagous.
I'll bring the snacks...
Currentzis is also afraid of Mozart. His recording of Cosi is similarly perverse!
He's afraid of himself - he's afraid of life.
Hahahaha perverse, such a wrong word for Cosi' recording, wich movement is perverse? Any in particular or you are blondly attacking all his recording?
After listening to the first movement, I wondered if many of the musicians were blue from a lack of oxygen. Music must breathe or die. This performance is dead.
I liked the last movement though: all but dead
If I was bored, I would do a review of this video. If my friends were bored they’d make a review of my video doing a review of you doing a review. Fortunately, we aren’t.
Your cat is not alone in her reaction. I've just coughed up a fur ball.
A few days ago, quite this or any of your reviews, I introduced the Mrs to Currentzis by way of one of his videos on RUclips, saying to her, "Get a load of this guy! Can you believe he's the hot conductor of the moment?"
The Mrs is now sharpening her claws, getting ready to unshield them should I ever repeat the perversity.
Erratum: For "quite this or any of your reviews," read "quite unrelated to this or any of your reviews," ...
I will make a note to avoid this, thanks, Dave!
Currentzis' version of Mozart's Requiem with MusicAeterna from alpha came 'highly recommended' (it has five-star reviews all over the place). I found it to be a perversely 'sped up' performance and found myself feeling sorry for the singers. My baseline is either Eugen Jochum's fabulous 1956 set (DG) or the Philippe Herreweghe version (which is a fantastic recording). I'd be interested to know what your favourite performance of Mozart's Requiem would be.
Currentzis seems to have made a career from playing the 'virtuoso' conductor. Many take him to be some kind of genius, but I find myself agreeing with you and your cat on this. He simply speeds things up, adds contrast (and theatrics). Subtle he certainly isn't.
I'm actually not that fond of the Mozart Requiem,
Saw part of a video where this lunatic conducted Mahler 9, at the end the lights dimmed until all went black..until all was dark. Wow that was a kind of a κάθαρσις, great concept, a revelation, deep insight...(=dull and ridiculous). Poor musicians, i heard them think: Erst kommt das Fressen...
Thank you David for saving us. I’ve only heard the first movement but that was more than enough.
1:42 totally agree!
It's fine until you reach the fourth note, which sounds like an electric razor. Then it goes downhill from there.
I wish I had seen this video of yours before I bought the CD of Currentzis's Beethoven 5 just a month ago, I entirely agree with you. I don't want to put this CD in my collection and I don't know what to do with it now.
Use it as a drink coaster!
Ha!Ha!Ha! I can't come up with any better idea than that!
Currentzis is a showboater and I want nothing to do with him.
What kind of self promotion is this, dear Sir?
Maestro is a world-known and respected musician. Who has benefits from you? your subjective opinion?
In my career I have reached more people and helped them find more music that has given them more pleasure than "Maestro" will ever do. And that is a fact.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Interesting... it's a lot of mediocre conductors on big stages, but nobody talks about them... you know why? nobody would listen to them.
@@lyubovli7244 And there are a lot of mediocre conductors that people do listen to. Give it up. Currentzis doesn't need you to defend him, but when he screws up music lovers need people like me to warn them. If he does something great, I'll be happy to say so. I am only interested in musical results.
Sony has already uploaded the recording to RUclips. What kind of marketing is that?
Good question.
So should every label do for all music? Not?
I have it , and it is disgraceful, but it is fascinating , I really do not know why?
So is a train wreck.
@@DavesClassicalGuideIsn't it?
Currentzis is often, not always, a half bluff. He did also good or very good things, but most of his recordings are overrated
That's fair.
I had listened to Currentzis' Beethoven 5th on Idagio when it came out; I was curious. As soon as the first notes sounded, I thought, "here we go, another super-fast, 'pure', reading of this music. At the very least, it wasn't to my taste: I found it completely unengaging, though the musicians played unbelievably. I think you hit the nail on the head: the issue is fear - fear of the music, fear of uncertainty, fear of vulnerability. Truth with a capital "T" so often leads to ideology and imprisonment, rather than freedom. And what Currentzis writes and says (in interviews), as you well pointed out, isn't anything new; it's the same old late Romantic stuff, ironically coming from someone who claims knowledge of history. Your anger was palpable, and worrisome - it's not worth your own health, or your cat's - but in the end you reach the insight about fear and at that point, I felt sadness that such talent (your word) could be blind to the authenticity of its own humanity.
Thank you. My cat is recovering. Nothing a healthy dose of catnip won't cure. Would that it were the same for us humans.
Dave -you are very funny.
Enjoyed your review of Gardiner box.
I would call him the Neville Marriner of period instruments.
All the best
Wise and discriminating cat; will Tums work?
Not on cats, sadly.
Dear David:
Thank you very much for your review. I enjoyed your description of this CD (especially the program notes from the Maestro himself). That was too funny.
I heard of Maestro Currentzis for the first time with this broadcast of Mendelssohn's violin concerto on TV. I couldn't stand it and turned off the TV in middle of the cadenza. This gave me the impression that he wanted to be different for the sake of it. Then again, he is the maestro, not I, so I could not deny his artistry or genius, or at least interpretation. The only thing I could only say is whether I like it or not after the fact.
RUclips link to Mendelssohn's violin concerto : ruclips.net/video/jlpwTbWUZ0A/видео.html
After reading your review of his Beethoven fifth, curiosity got the better of me so I decided to listen to it, again available on RUclips from the channel with the Maestro's name. Originally hoping to confirm my skepticism, I can only say, compared to the Mendelsson it was infinitely more listenable. The nuance and dynamics took a bit of effort to get used to, even taking into account of its HIP nature, but this is a pill I could still swallow. And I am writing this with the aforementioned Mendelssohn still sitting firmly in memory.
One minor point, given the Fifth was first primiered toward the end of 1808, I don't know how "period" the instruments should be. Also given Beethoven's tendency to break traditions during his time, would he end up playning it HIP (as he or Currentzis, knew it), or would he start digging for his luxurious sarcophagus?
Again thanks for your very descriptive review, Gerry.
Every bad recording seems to have its following. BBC music magazine rated this 5 stars. hehe
I'm not surprised. Every disgusting guy finds a girlfriend too, somehow.
Put a metronome on the conductor's rostrum, and you get better results from the musicians. What Currentzis does, is tasteless. Besides: Beethoven totally misunderstood by his contemporaries? - 10.000-20.000 people took part at his burial. But remember that Vienna had about 402.000 inhabitants at this time (exactely 401.049 in 1830). In my opinion, he was a pop star.
OH MY GOODNESS!!! I think I'm about to follow your poor cat! D###ed Currentzis!!
I realize that im not the only one to consider Currentzis as the Marilyn Manson of Classical. With all the terrible significance that it carries.
Dave is a force of nature. Like Beethoven's Fifth.
I imagine younger people are taken with him. They are easily impressed. Remember Paul Potts and the records he sold? Loud and flashy is all that matters. Whatever can get someone to look up from their phones has a chance of success.
Thank you for your commitment to the classical music world. Your enthusiasm for the repertoire and the recordings is inspiring and contagious.
However, respectfully, I must say that I find this review of Currentzis’s Beethoven 5 needlessly aggressive and unbefitting of a professional critic.
Your tone throughout this review, by turns aggressive and sarcastic, overshadows what are undoubtedly valid and informed musical thoughts. Suggesting that this performance might make you “want to jump off a bridge” is unnecessary and distracting. Interrupting your reading of the essay with the word “duh” every few sentences distracts us from evaluating the essay itself. The audience does not need to know about the reviewer’s cat throwing up. Of course, personal emotions are part of an honest reaction, but a professional review ought to remain civil and impersonal.
It seems that one of the goals of any classical review source is to inspire respect and trust for its recommendations. This enterprise would be more successful by producing critical reviews which are succinct and respectful, while still being honest. The positive reviews from ClassicsToday.com are generally very enlightening. The critical reviews contain some genuine musical thoughts, but those thoughts are obscured by nastiness and sarcasm. Classy writing can communicate criticism without anger or bitterness.
I hear your comments but respectfully disagree. You mischaracterize both what I said and how I said it, and obviously did not catch the humor that many others here (correctly) understood. Either you get it, or you don't.
I agree with D. Carson's comments. Everyone has their own opinion. Currentzis is obviously a big thorn in your flesh. How did it get there? Can't wait to hear your trashing of the recently released Beethoven 7.
I find it as thrilling as C's 5th, not to mention his Don Giovanni.
Perhaps you should review recordings "blind"; I'm sure your reactions would be most interesting.
I wonder how his Mahler 6th is
Just listen to it on Spotify...;-)
Boring predictable
England has a famous satirical magazine called Private Eye and it features a column called Pseuds corner. The text you so ably ridicule would fit it nicely there! Mind you, there seems to be a trend for this sort of thing in CD booklets where little is written about the works but you get lots of arty and moody photos of the artist with some sort of commentary from the artist. Sometimes it pays off and what they write offers some interesting insights or you get the sort of airy guff
To be fair, there is a note about the work too, but it's not much better...
Just what I was thinking... The extract from the booklet was - no I can't even start. Narcissistic pomposity about covers it. So sorry about your cat.
Bravo David! You are so right!!!!!
I'm laughing too much at this. Thanks David
"germans love a concept"
ahahahaha the truth hurts
Hi- you will be delighted to know that the British press reverts to type as the current issue of the BBC music magazine gives this CD a 5 star rating. As you would say in America - go figure!
Currentzis: "Beethoven wasn't a difficult person; he just lived in difficult times." Uh.... didn't the genial Haydn live in the same times? Or are we supposed to believe that everyone has the same personality as the times in which they live?
The very rich and more easy to treat Mendelssohn, Rossini or Spontini lived in the same era. So he was basically misantropic and Currentzis a big nothing burger.
You overlooked something important. Haydn was raised in a loving family, while Beethoven was raised under an abusive father. In addition, Haydn grew up with a nice personality, and was highly respected by other fellow composers and especially the royalty. Beethoven, in contrast, was forced into practicing long hours by his greedy, good-for-nothing father and therefore grew a bitter personality. He was also misunderstood by many composers and other people, and most importantly, he slowly lost his hearing as everybody knows. Haydn and Beethoven may have lived in the same period, but they grew up in completely different environments. I think what Currentzis meant, is that Beethoven's environment around him was very difficult, his family was poor and also because of his father I mentioned earlier, surrounded by people who never really understood him. Had Beethoven lived in a similar situation as Haydn did, or lived in a different time period, he would have had a nice personality. As a huge fan of Currentzis, I would like to advise you to do some research on those composers before commenting. Thank you.
Your cat is absolutely right!!
Currentzis is extremely overrated. He is a marketing phenomenon. Patricia Kopatchinskaja - with whom he recorded Tchaikovsky's violin concerto - is equally overrated, btw: a performer more than a musician. Both play into this powerful trope of the "eccentric genius" but the actual musical substance behind the way they present themselves is pretty thin.
That Tchaikovsky recording is so odd. I was laughing out loud several times when I heard it. It's like Kopatchinskaya was trying to phrase every melodic line as weirdly as possible. 'Let's put in a pause here, even though there isn't one. Oh and here I could play closer to the bridge and then I'll add random dynamic contrasts.' It feels so calculated, she's trying so hard to be unique that she sacrifices everything else for it, the score, musicality, phrasing, whatever. I don't get it, she's obviously a good violinist, why does she need these excentricities? She and Currentzis are made for each other, he does the same thing.
Overrated by whom? You mean she doesn't deserve the success she enjoys? One of the most serious musicians of our time.
We all have our preferences.....
I'm referring to Kopatchinskaja, but the same applies to Currentzis.
I failed to like his well praised recording of Tchaikovsky’s 6th symphony. The horrendous noise made by the stopped horns in the last movement made me stop listening and sceptical of future recordings from him
B R I L L I A N T and H I L A R I O U S. Well, now I expected you would give the biggest stroke on your tam tam and crush the cd/booklet/Currentzis, but it didn't come...well maybe all for the better (and for your poor cat, but I guess she is used to your wonderful outbursts of rage). But you know, Dave, when I hear Beethoven or any other composer in my head, i just hear the notes, just the notes, not any kind of interpretation, and I don't hear any kind of recording, just pure Beethoven
Thank you. Is there any such thing as "pure" Beethoven? Aren't you hearing your own interpretation? I understand what you are saying in the sense that I too have a mental image of the work as a whole and I can play it back any time I want--and that image corresponds to no specific version that I have heard; but of course it had to come from somewhere, so in that sense it is comprised of all of the versions I have heard, and so isn't static. Of course, Currentzis has added nothing to this imaginative structure, except perhaps a bad infestation of termites that will require professional assistance to eradicate .
@@DavesClassicalGuide that's exactly how it is! It's a blessing to the world that my mental Beethoven will never see the daylight in disc or anywhere else 😉
Fantastic and brave review! Bravo.
Fantastic review!
OK, I just listened to a bit of the first movement... the words that come to mind is "clinical" and "bloodless." And also: does he have a train to catch?
Great review. Currentzis is a bluff