Hobby Cheating 75 - Zenithal Highlighting and Glazes
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- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- In this Hobby Cheating tutorial, it's time to return to basics and talk through what Zenithal highlighting is and how with a single glaze you can speed paint single material miniatures such as space marines and storm cast. Hope you enjoy!
Twitter: @warhammerweekly
Vince's RPG Podcast: itunes.apple.c...
It is because of vids like that that I bought a cheap airbrush to try out with my huge compressor. Works great, thanks Vince! If I could only figure out an indoor set up, but I'm intimidated by the boot, extractor fan and all....but with good weather....
Well, I will say you can get a cheap small compressor and then with something as simple as a cardboard box with a hole in it, you should be to spray inside with a mask on, especially with acrylic paints.
So glad I found this channel! I just started back to painting models again after 28 years of down time with life.
Is it strange that every time you say Ok or K, I nod my head here and say yeah? No one else is here. I am talking to a YT channel. Ha ha ha ha.
Good stuff and very helpful.
My main question would be what size is your end piece? Not even sure what that piece is called right now. The one I got with the airbrush system says medium. So I bought one that looks like a little pin hole.
I got a gravy fed airbrush as in my research it said that was the best one for painting little details and models.
I am in learning mode again, so these videos are very helpful.
When I started all this back in 1989 there were no videos or help. People would have paid good money for this knowledge back then.
I am very grateful for the information you are giving out to us here.
At some point I would be interested in learning some of those trade secrets you may reserve for patrons or paying members.
I would be more than happy to send you a little donation for some of that insider knowledge on this stuff. You give out so much already. You have earned it in my eyes.
Well first, welcome aboard, very glad to have you along on the hobby journey.Always happy to help. As to the airbrush. My best advice is you probably have a .35 needle, that's pretty normal "medium" - If it's a starter airbrush that's cheap, that's the way to learn. You can eventually upgrade to something like an Iwata HP-CS.
As to secrets, they are all in the videos, don't hold anything back and I never will. :)
@@VinceVenturella Thanks Vince. You have been a huge help man. I never knew about about mixing my paints with Air Brush Reducer. It has changed my whole painting exp.! I can now get those fine sharp lines like I have always wanted to.
This is thanks you to you and giving out such valuable knowledge.
I am very grateful for channels like these. You are a good teacher.
I have seen plenty of other videos and most the art guys hold back lots of knowledge behind a pay wall.
What you are doing deserves credit and personally more than just a simple thank you.
I am going to make you a small donation here this week to provide you a little motivation and knowing folks like me are very grateful for the knowledge you are putting out here.
Great stuff! I spend the whole day yesterday watching your videos.
I feel like I leveled UP on my painting skills just from your stuff alone.
Best video I’ve seen on this technique
Thank you, that is very much appreciated and always glad to help.
this was a nice video. I like the idea of using Zenethal highlighting and inks to do armored figures like space marines or Eldar.
Yep, you can knock them out quick with this technique for sure.
Getting an airbrush for Christmas...You'll be my Yoda. Subbed.
Excellent, happy to help as always, feel free to ask any questions as you go along on your airbrush journey, it's one of the best purchases i have ever made bar none and I love mine all these years later.
From Merriam Webster dictionary:
zenithal
adjective
zE·nith·al ˈzē-nə-thəl
Canadian also and British usually ˈze-nə-,
-ni-
1
: of, relating to, or located at or near the zenith
2
: showing correct directions from the center
a zenithal map
The "E" is a Long E not a short e as pronounced in 90% of these videos.
It is a great technique If you want your figure to look like it is always lit from only one direction, not very lifelike as in the real world, even indoors, the direction of the light changes with the movement of the object.
When I first heard about this technique, I thought it sounded like a lot of work to go through with questionable results but the more I see of it the more convinced I become. I'm seriously considering giving it a try, only I don't want to go with pure black; just personal preference, but I think the shadows are too dark for my liking so I'm thinking of a dark gray, mid-tone gray and white.
I don't use pure black, I use grey/black for that same reason. The short answer to your question though is yes, you can either a) Use a lighter base primer or b) go heavier on the grey mid step. I have found in most cases, the heavier shadows will serve you better in the long run, but YMMV.
This video is amazing.
Thank you, happy to help as always. :)
Thank you trying this myself.
Have fun!
Can't believe Vince is still responding to these threads after all these years! A question if glaze medium (or even contrast medium) might be better than thinner in certain scenarios (or why not)? (Perhaps glaze medium wasn't commercially available 6 years ago?!)
The newest video I did really explains that, glaze medium is tough, as it's really a mix of things. In general, those mix mediums aren't doing much differently, but they can be somewhat useful when you need to go really thin, the new pro acryl glaze and wash medium is solid for that.
I tried Zenithal with white primer over gray, and I must have a crappy white because it just covered it with little dots. Awesome vid, really helpful.
I have the same problem with trying to zenithal paint with spray can white after I've primed the model with spray can black. It's probably best to use regular paint like Vince does for the zenithal part, since the model is already primed.
In general, you want a nice white spray paint, I would grab like a citadel or army painter, but it's always going to give you a little bit of the dots. The key is to spray from farther away and do a few light passes to build up and even out the random spray.
I'll pick up some army painter next time I'm at the store. Krylon does not work.
krylon camo line is 100x better than regular krylon and what I use solely for priming (assuming i am doing the standard priming colors)
Great video one that I have referred to multiple times, and here I am yet again.
Really trying to mostly glaze a crew for the first time.
Having a hard to wrapping my head around my project since I’m trying to do mostly black suits (tuxedo suits that is, knight Models organize crime) with just a pinch of Color. Cuz fabric hits light differently and I don’t want them to look boring.
After doing the “dark” (pine green, a dark blue, grey, and possibly purple or dark red Color) which look a lot brighter than I was first expecting. Lol At first tried the grey maybe which didn’t look great and I’m thinking Gray is not the color for this technique after a zenithal.
So re cleaned up the zenithal and tried green maybe that model was just a tad thick.
So I’ll try again for that. but with the Colors looking very bright and I want the Black effect
Should I try to re glaze with black. Or at that point an Ink/wash. Not really sure how much it’s going to darken it but was thinking a pine gray.
Or maybe just use a wash/ink from the start possibly after value sketching some of the Color right over my Highlight.
Any thoughts?
Typically with blacks have done more of that GW way base coat and Highlight with dark reaper
I would glaze, very, very thinly with the black, you can slowly wheel other colors back. :)
Thanks so much for this! This really helped wrap my head around using my airbrush for highlights. Is this kind of highlighting helpful with large muscles like Bullgors and Ogors? They're large rounded surface, but the surfaces are more "rolling" than the symmetrical armor of Space Marines and Stormcasts.
I think so, but you want to be a little more careful with your glaze colors and with your highlighting (so you aren't getting too much white in the upper facing creases). In general, this same technique will work for the majority of musculature, you just need to be a little more careful and targetted at the top.
REALLY helpful. I have a bunch of SM to do and this will help a ton, if I can pull it off . Thanks
Happy to help as always. :) - Space Marines really are great for this type of technique, it's amazing the time you can save.
Thanks for this Vince - this is essential watching!
Thank you, very much appreciated. :)
Your videos are invaluable. Really took my mini painting to the next level. Coming from armor modelling these techniques don't come naturally to me but you do an excellent and concise job of covering the important stuff. Thanks
Glad to help :)
Thanks for the video. Really useful stuff. I'm about to try this out a silver metallic robot type monster. I'm hoping it will help speed things up
Are you using true metal paint? If so, then replace the grey with a dark steel and the white with a very bright silver and you can get some amazing effects.
Brown undercoating for skin tones.. Thanks! I couldn't figure out how to make it look good!
Excellent, happy to help as always. :)
Thanks for a more extended hobby cheating tutorial on zenithal highlighting, it will be very helpful.
Watching your last job in the PMP I thought, what about a hobby cheating on how the light reflects over the surfaces of differently textured materials, and the type and amount of highlighting needed?
Yep, that is definitely one I need to do. It's really how you distinguish materials, expect that one in April I would imagine. :)
Yesterday I tried and mixed several things I learned in your videos. I made some mistakes and the result was horrible, I should have sticked to your rules much more!
First, I did zenithal highlight with my airbrush to a pict warrior from Conan boardgame (all skin and a loincloth). This was my firstbtime doing zenithal, up till now I only use airbrush for priming. I remembered what you said about never black under skin so I thought about using a reddish brown. But I wanted more dark so after starting, I put a drop of black and tried to mix like you do, putting a finger in tip or airbrush and blowing air. It did not go well, did not mix well and the result was very black. Lesson learned, better to premix before putting paint in airbrush for now. Grey and white went fairly well, zenithal was achieved almost successfully, apart from the very black shadows...
Then, Mixed pale flesh with some glaze medium and airbrush thinner, trying to create a glaze. I applied 8 times over whole flesh parts. Result was... Not good. Very muted color, and black clearly showing under the paint. In the middle I added some dwarf skin (basically orange) to try and cover more... Lets say that did not help create a better skin color, nor help much with the black under.
So, many lessons learned... But I dont think even if I had put a brown instead of black as shadow zenithal, that I would habe a got a good vibrant color...
Looks better than if I spend a couple hours trying to blend with a brush...
That's the advantage. :) - You can accomplish so much contrast so quickly.
did you say something about cleaning your airbrush in 40 seconds!!!!...possibly a important point on my learning curve, i'm always cleaning the bugger...thin thin thinner. thanks vince for your awesome tuts.
Yep, I use very thin paint, always thin, easier to go another layer than clog your airbrush. Then a quick blowthrough of cleaner, then water, then good to go. Once every 5 paint changes, I do a little more cleaning, but it's still about 3 minutes.
I just tried this for the first time and had a great zenithal highlight!!! Until I covered it completely with my base colour :(
I guess I need to dilute it waaaaay more
WAYYYYYY more. You are going for a glaze consistency. :) It's always easier to do a second glaze, but you can't remove half the paint you put on, don't worry, everyone puts it on too strong the first time.
Yep, did this exact same thing myself tonight :/
like your vid can you do one for more organic units like greenskins. where your dealing with leather metal and flesh. I think hobby cheating to paint fast orcs/orks/goblins/gretchin would be fantastic to see.
Great idea, that is an easy mini with the right techniques and cheating - added to the list.
Hey Vince, can you talk about Blanchitsu ? What is it and would you call this a technique or just a different style of painting a miniature ?
Hey Vince! Been struggling with the zenithal. Specifically I’m having issues with the mix or white that I’m using. I’ve put my compressor up to 40 psi because that’s supposed to help reduce speckling. I’ve also tried anywhere between Pro Acryl white mixed with Daler Rowney, to just straight Daler Rowney, to Daler Rowney thinned down with that airbrush thinner/flow mix you’ve talked about before. Even the thinnest one had issues with speckling, and sadly also flowed too heavily into recesses to be a good zenithal. What do you actually use for your white?
So there will always be a little speckling, but it sounds like we either don't have it thinned enough, or we're putting out too much air pressure or both. You have to be really gentle with the trigger and just build it up softly with very thin layers.
@@VinceVenturellathanks for the response! I’ll try to show a little more restraint on rocking the trigger and see if that helps haha.
Love the technique. Thanks.
Excellent, happy to help as always. :)
Thank you for the video. Great as always. Quick one. I see you use actual paints for the grey and white. I've been used mixes of the black, grey & white Vallejo primera to do zenithal. Would you recommend using paints instead of primers? Or will I get the same results with primer?
At 11:00 are you applying a uniform coat all over or do you target specific areas and/or aim the brush at a specific angle like the gray you did in the beginning?
Generally all over. That being said, I might focus a little more on the darker area to saturate the blue a little more in those areas and go a little lighter/less layers on the white areas to keep the brightness.
ok thanks, I'll try that sometime!
Hi Vincent, why do you use German panzer grey instead of black for your undercoat?
Thanks Michael
I don't want an actual deep black, the slight grey tone makes the shadows softer.
Vince, thank you very much for this video. I appreciated your comments about the different basecoat colours for reds, oranges, pinks, etc. Question: what role does the colour wheel play in the basecoat/primer colour? If I wanted to paint an orange space marine, would I basecoat with turquoise?
Well, I happen to have a video about that - ruclips.net/video/rFDHpVJiNC0/видео.html
I also paint orange in several videos like this - ruclips.net/video/R60_DCsmxb0/видео.html
So the first coat should be a black primer and if I wanted to go white no gray highlights I can use a white acrylic paint.
It doesn’t have to be black primer AND white highlighted primer right?
You are correct, and going straight from black to white is quite easy, especially if you're working with a thinner white paint you can build up.
Probably a dumb question, but I’m an airbrush newbie. Do you add thinner to your primers and at what PSI do you run when zenithal priming?
Not a dumb question at all. Yes, I always add thinner to everything (Everything) and I use about 1 drop of thinner to 4-5 drops of primer. I run at about 18PSI for most of my work (priming or painting).
Thank you
You're welcome!
What made you pick panzer grey as your go to primer over black?
It's softer than pure black and I like that it isn't as strong as pure black.
Right, a few bits I want to try this on, so off to grab my airbrush!
Awesome, happy to help. :)
Vince - would you do zenith all highlighting on vehicles? If so, would you do it in the same fashion. Thanks.
I happen to have a video all about that - ruclips.net/video/2tmujLvovEo/видео.html
Watched!❤
with your straight white, what is your thinning ratio, or are you well shaken and straight from the botte?
also, please, what psi are you shooting from?
thank you for the great video and for your response
With white primer if that's what you're using for zenithal, I put a few drops of thinner into it before the primer (say 1 thinner to 3 primer). If I am using ink or paint, I think to whatever standard ratio I thin that to for a layer. I shoot at 18-20 PSI.
Thank you Mr Venturella, for the information!
What color primer would you suggest for OD green? I do a lot of military figures
thanks in advance!
Just black to ivory.
Hello Vince,
I love your videos! I'm somewhat new to painting and considering getting an air brush. Your tips are very helpful. I have a question about my color scheme though. I'm doing black and orange space marines, which as you mentioned is difficult haha. So far I've been spray can priming all black and then doing the armor panels (elbows, shoulders, knees, backpack bulb vent things, top of helmet, chest) with a brush. I base coat grey over the black, then do my orange. This scheme will also be on vehicles. How should I apply this priming process for those colors? Doing the black prime saves me a ton of time so I don't have to hand paint the black armor parts but if there is another way to approach this that I'm not realizing that would be great. Especially for the vehicles since I don't want to hand paint the orange panels, I'd like to use an airbrush. Sorry for the long comment! Thank you for all your great content.
Sure, my tactic would be the following.
1) Zenithal the vehicles with some panel modulation in the scheme you want.
2) Mask off the orange
3) Glaze back the black areas with a mix of black ink and payne's grey.
4) Varnish it
5) Mask around the orange areas
6) Replace the low tone black with a deeper brown
7) Use ivory to reinforce the highlights.
8) Glaze orange
done.
Vince, your vids helped me a lot in preparing and deciding to start painting. I hope you can tell me your opinion/advice on the following matter, concerning spray priming+zenithal on very, very detailed minis:
My example is creature casters lord of slaughter, or most other minis they make. If i use chaos black, followed by tamiya grey, how much detail is likely to be covered (i guess it's a poorly phrased question, but how will the spraying aftermath look like in your opinion)? Is it better to use vallejo brush on primer, followed by a grey zenithal? Is the grey layer going to be the one that harms the detail (or will it infact help by doing...well, a highlight)?
If i mess up with resin minis, is there a safe way to go back? I honestly fear this kind of expensive yet resin miniature.
So the key is to spray your secondary and tertiary color from a distance. You only need a very thin layer, so keep the spray paint back and do light dustings. You can always put more paint on, but it's only stripping to take it off. If you do that, you shouldn't really lose any detail.
Vince Venturella Thank you. Do you have any opinion on vallejo spray primers?
Thanks for all of your videos Vince! When you make your glaze, do you use glaze medium or airbrush paint thinner (or something else)? There seem to be so many solutions for thinning and I’m not sure how to use them in my new airbrush.
When glazing with an airbrush, I use Vallejo Airbrush thinner. When glazing with brush, I use water or water/glaze medium. You can get away with just water a little more with Scale 75 and Warcolours due to the high pigment density.
For rattlecan zenithal priming, do you have any video footage of that specifically? Are there any noteworthy technique/theory differences?
I do in some other videos, not really any differences, just hold the spray can from above and give a good light spray from a close distance (6-8") so the paint doesn't dry as it's traveling through the air.
Question. When you talk about priming in a dark brown if you were going for a red basecoat. Would you also still use the grey and white for the zenithal? Or would you use lighter Browns? Thank you!
In general, I would use light rust and ivory, you can see the exact process here - ruclips.net/video/rFDHpVJiNC0/видео.html
So doing fleshy bits or lets say a nurgle, would you undercoat black first, then all over coat of purple or just start with purple and then do the grey and white tone ?
So I would do the standard zenithal you see here. I would then shoot from below (basically at the opposite angle of the white) with the purple and cover all of the black. Hope that makes sense. :)
@@VinceVenturella Thanks alot, but if i'd want to go with a brighter purple i would skip the black or still keep it even though i'm covering it all up ?
Super useful Vince! Thanks for all the hobby cheating series. Question: can you combine the zenithal technique here with a rattle can Retributor armor base coat for the classic Stormcast scheme? Or is the rattle can paint so thick that you'll obliterate the great shading from the zenithal undercoat? Would love to hear how you'd go about it! Cheers!
So it doesn't generally work with Metallic paints, as metallic pigment is opaque and so doesn't work well with undershading. I can't think of a good way to do it straight with Retributor armor spray, though you could do it with an airbrush and start with a deep gold with some brown ink mixed in as a base. Then go regular gold, then gold silver.
Makes sense - so you'll still get the nice luminance shift from dark gold->gold->gold/silver but you're also putting down metallic color vs here where you've separated the light/dark zenithal shading from the application of the hue/color itself with the glazing. Very helpful! Thanks again!
I think it may be time for me to look into a beginner airbrush setup!
Please can you do one on airbrushing osl?
Sure, I have OSL on the list, I will break it into brush painting OSL and Airbrush OSL as there are differences.
Thank you, can't wait!
Vince Venturella What airbrush are you using in this video? I am having trouble 'back filling' into my paint cup. I can get paint through it fine but when I try to plug the end... no bubbles in my paint cup. FYI I am using a badger renegade krome
I am using a Iwata HP-CS Eclipse. DOes your tip have a round guard or a guard with cuts in the side? If you can't get the air flow blocked completely, it won't back up the air.
Vince Venturella yes that's exactly the problem, there is no way for me to completely block off the air... definitely something I wish I knew to look for when purchasing!
Hey Vince,
great video (again ^^). I have the same Vallejo surface primer here (black, grey, white). How much do you thinn down the primers when u use it? They seem to be kind of thick xD
greetings, have a nice week! :)
Generally a few drops of thinner for the primer amount - so basically 1-3 ratio (thinner to primer).
So if I have a mainly skin model that I want to be light or tanned would I just zenithal prime different shades of purple to get better transitions of tones?
I think that can be an excellent way to go yes (you will see me do something similar in a coming video).
Vince Venturella awesome, I’m looking forward to it!
Regarding a model that is primarily red, you mentioned that you'd go right over the black with something else, right. Are you saying that you'd prime black, then repaint the entire mini with something like Burnt Umber, then do they grey and white zenithal?
If you check out this video, you will see the process - ruclips.net/video/rFDHpVJiNC0/видео.html
any chance you would make video on zenithal highliting without an airbrush and with a brush? Thank you
Sure, I am happy to do so. I'll add it to the list. :)
Is it better to spray without the base on? I'm worried about wrecking it. How do I make it nice after spraying it up?
Well, my personal preference generally is to always keep the base separate. In this case, it was already done. My best advice is if you refuse to do the base completely separately, it should be done like I did here where it's already based and textured. Priming and zenithaling everything at once will only help. Just paint the base separate, your darker early colors will mostly cover whatever is done here with a color.
Is there an advantage to using the Game Air Cold Gray & White vs Vallejo Primer Gray & Primer White?
Not really. Just preference
What would you recommend for priming a Silver base? Looking to paint Grey knights
This video right here takes you through the technique for TMM - ruclips.net/video/ByX2jIEmXJM/видео.html
@@VinceVenturella yes! Thank you. Not just telling me but showing me.
If you're painting a dark blue colour, like Kantor Blue for example, how do you prevent it looking de-saturated, or too light in the lighter areas?
So the key is to apply additional glazes at the lowest levels off the highlight. There will always be some desaturtion,but additional glazes in the shadow areas will make the color seem more rich and true to it's original color while preserving the highlights.
Thank you, this helps me a lot. Question': with this technique you created some cool shadows, but what next? Applying a wash to make details noticeable and get some further localized shadows would not ruin the effect?
Washes will generally bring everything together and/or darken the whole bit down. A fun trick is to wash everything and then re-airbrush your highlights back on in a targeted way (i.e. only hitting carefully the high points). If you were bring careful, you would use targeted washes/glazes/inks to deepen the shadows and build up the highlights with brush. This also helps remove the "airbrushed" look. If you have plates, like a space marine or something in armor, you would black (or very color) line the plates and use something near white to edge out the plates as your next step.
I know you've mentioned that lighter colors are trickier. I'm currently trying to do my Death Guard in a bone colored armor scheme. Can I just airbrush a bone color over a zenithal primed model or should I be looking a different colors for my zenithal highlight? Love this series and love your videos - These have really gotten me off my butt to fight the war on grey plastic.
Depends on the exact color you are going for, but here is how I have done a deathguard like scheme.
Let's rewind the whole process.
Start with your Black-Grey primer, then do a grey layer. Then give the whole thing a good sepia ink layer (like FW or Vallejo game ink). THen let's do a light bone from above and focus it carefully on the armor plates. You should be basically good to go there. Worst case, you can do a few darker glazes targetted to pull shadows into the recesses on the plates.
Hope that helps.
@@VinceVenturella Awesome. I'm going to give that a shot! I picked up the FW sepia ink just the other day after I saw your video. I really appreciate you taking the time to write back.
@@VinceVenturella One last thing. I tried to go back to previous videos to look this up, but is the Black-Grey primer critical to this? I was using stynylrez black and I'm not sure how it compares to the Vallejo panzer grey.
@@Danhattan No, any black is fine, I just like Black-Grey because I like a little softer shadows.
@@VinceVenturella On my first attempt I think I didn't spray from a high-enough angle and destroyed too much of my shadows. I think I'm having issues adjusting to knowing what good looks like in a zenethil style. I'm going to give it another shot - I assume this should be from roughly the same angle as the grey and up.
How close of a result would you get with a spray primer zenithal highlight? Thinking about using the same colors and apply in the same angle as you do in the video. Do you think the speckling effect caused by the rattle can will show through a lot later after you applied your basecoats?
You can get close, but you do it with 2 colors only, black (or dark grey and white). You will get speckling, but it can largely be covered by later paints.
Amazing vid Vince! Probably a silly question but would black armor benefit from zenithal priming in any way and if so how would you personally go about black armor using this technique? Im about to paint the new sister of battle and would like to get an almost black but very dark grey to black in the recesses transition. Would i just skip the white step? Sorry if this is a no brainer question lol
It would, I am going to do a Quick Black Cheat video one day, but short answer is I zenithal and then do subtle black glazes pulling it back down to retain the contrast.
@@VinceVenturella Thankyou very much for thr reply Vince lol old vid didnt think youd see it thats why i love this channel. I will try it out. Looking forward to the vid as well for sure!
Great share my friend
Thank you sir, much appreciated as always.
Are the paints you use also a primer or only the black is a primer?
Only the black is a primer. Though you can use white primer as well, no difference.
For the black lining, Would this be a good candidate for oil washing? Am I right in thinking those smooth transitions would then be protected from your brush?
Yep, absolutely, you will still tint the color slightly unless you are very thorough with your cleaning, but it's minor and speed is the order of the day, it's a GREAT solution.
Hi Vince, I am having some trouble with Vallejo primer clocking up my airbrush. How much (if at all) do you thin your primer and have you experienced more/less clocking depending on the psi value?
Alwasy add thinner to everything. I tend to do 1-2 (Thinner to Primer). I would also check out Hobby Cheating 213 on cleaning your airbrushing.
One other thing to warn on, when primer gets to the bottom of the bottle, it gets some clumps that can cause some extra clogging.
Is it possible to add other colors to the zeniths shades to get a prime with color? Or should one only use the grey-white balance first?
Sure, you can and should often. If you are dealing with wanting rich yellows, oranges or reds, it's generally good to insert a dark brown step inbetween the black primer and grey and use a warm white to finish instead of a pure white. You could also replace the grey with a mid-tone brown.
Basically, you just want to think about it from an undershading perspective and how those colors over top will interact and be enhanced by what's underneath.
I know the vid is a bit older but I'm hoping to grab an answer. I unfortunately do not have an airbrush anymore. Had to sell mine ...is there any real way to obtain this effect with just a paint brush? Something akin to a drybrush highlight?
Absolutely, instead of using the Airbrush for the grey/white, just directionally dry brush the grey/white and then glaze the blue color with a brush.
Hi Vince,
Love the videos, they are helping me tremendously.
One question, I want to do grey armor for space wolves, can I just use this zenthial technique and its done or should i go back over with another grey glaze?
Cheers
So Space Wolf armor tends to have a little blue in the grey. So here would be my way to do it, understanding that I haven't painted space wolves, so this is all theory.
1) Black/Grey primer
2) Dark blue ink (or shade, something like Drakenhoff Nightshade) - basically, tint it all blue.
3) Grey/blue zenithal, you could mix your own or use something like the cold grey mixed with a single drop of Guilliman glaze
4) Targeted white highlights.
I would then go back in with some brush and darken a few shadows, panel lines, edge highlighting, etc.
I am sure there are a few other ways you could attack it. You could also do the standard zenithal, and then glaze in a thinned blue glaze, then go back over with grey/blue and white.
Hopefully something like that helps. Thanks for watching and commenting, glad I could help.
Awesome, I'll give that crack.
Thanks so much.
And another question: in this case, model is almost entirely one color so its the easiest example for this technique, but lets imagine a character from conan, mostly skin but with a loincloth, shield, etcetera. You would have to do zenithal with airbrush, but then use glazes with a brush, each part with the color that corresponds, correct?
That is one way to do it yes, you an go all brush. Flesh is a slightly different example, there are lots of ways to go with flesh - if you look at my Detailed and Fast Caucasian flesh videos, I use this technique as a base and then go from there in a couple different ways.
If you have large enough areas, you can keep using the airbrush to build volumes and do your initial glazes.
Vince Venturella Thank you Vince, I am still processing your channel... so many tutorials and youa nswering so fast, must be a dream come true! Dont you do any kind of online tutoring or something like that? i am a horrible painter and need help haha!
Thanks, always happy to help. At the moment no, but I do live Q&A sessions on my channel, so watch for those and I will be teaching at some cons next year.
so, if you are going to paint red, the thing would be, brown base, grey 45 degree angle , and white from above?
Well, I just happen to have a video on that - ruclips.net/video/rFDHpVJiNC0/видео.html&list=PLcdsbwBroEmD2fNEJhcju6PD7qRmoo04Y
Short answer, Dark brown base, light brown/rust from 45 degrees, ivory from above.
Going off your comment about avoid paints with a stronger foundation of white in them, say if I were going for a very pale olive color for a Death Guard model, would I be better off zenthial priming, going for a darker olive and then completing the rest with a brush?
Yep, green's are wonderful with zenithal, because the darker or olive greens use yellow, not white. So you can thin them and go over the zenithal without issue and get wonderful contrast. Another tip, before you do the green, do a reverse zenithal of a very thin, dark red (in other words, shoot it up from below into the shadows, something like Hull Red) Red is the complimentary color of green and will create wonderful rich shadows when you put thin green over top. Totally optional but something fun you might want to try.
Vince Venturella sounds like a plan. I'll have to try that tonight. I did try it using Reaper's Pale Olive and it looked like it washed a lot of it out. That was a good tip with the red!
Vince Venturella hey Vince, I'm about to paint a van Saar necromunda gang, it's dark green. I used grey and white for zenithal but it wasn't quite right with the dark green/olive wash. When you mentioned yellow, is that what I should use instead of grey and white? Cheers! Love your videos!
This is a great video! I'm still so confused as to whether I should be using flow improver or thinner or neither with my Vallejo Surface Primer (yes, very new to it). I'm in a dry climate, and did notice some dry tip occurring. Any help, would be really appreciated!!
Happy to help, so I use an 80/20 mix of Thinner and Flow Improver respectively. I find that is the best mix. With my primer, I generally use about a 1-2 ratio or 1-3. (thinner to primer).
@@VinceVenturella Thanks for the reply! If I understood this correctly, you have a mix of 4:!1 thinner:flow improver, and you add that to your primer with a mix of 1:2 or 1:3? I will definitely try that out, thanks!
@@clarketron3000 yep
@@VinceVenturella awesome, thanks!
Can you do this with a brush 😅? I have no posebillity to use an airbrush or use a rattle can 😅
Sure, if the model is black, you can use light dry brushes of white/grey from above (only move the brush down from the top) and you can achieve the same effect.
Been using zenithal for ages but often my figures end up dark after priming. I’ve been leaving large portions of say, the torso under the arms (the arms block the grey and white) and legs and often front torso black. 25-30% of the model is black I’d say. How much black do you generally leave?
less than 10%, you want very little black. In fact, I will often then anti-zenithal from below with an actual color to remove the black completely and make it simply a dark color. Hope that helps.
Vince Venturella wow. So I’ve been leaving much more, and of course the glaze layers won’t go on as well in some darker areas. But then why have the black at all? If I cover it all up with (most,y) grey and (also a little bit of) white primer, aren’t I killing part of my shading gradient?
@Vince just bumping this. When I leave very little black am I defeating the purpose of zenithal? Why not just prime white (if I plan to use glazes or contrast paints to finish the model)?
What airbrush are you using in this video? I am having trouble 'back filling' into my paint cup. I can get paint through it fine but when I try to plug the end... no bubbles in my paint cup. FYI I am using a badger renegade krome
Love the zenithal process, it was really a game changer for me. One issue I've been having though is my white highlight is kinda speckled and it's visible under my glazes. I use badger stynylrez thru a haarder steinbeck ultra blowing at 20-25 psi. Any advice?
You could try the old 40PSI to truly atomize and use a lot less air in the pull. I know Aaron Lovejoy has been having good success with higher PSI, less air pull.
@@VinceVenturella thank you! ill give it a shot!
Hi Vince, I want to speed paint some new Primis marines when they come out soon. I want to do a blood angels theme, but I have a couple of questions first :)
1) Is there a difference in between just using a red triad and hitting up at different angles vs the method you demonstrated here?
2) Also, when I do the undercoats for red doing this method, do I go
black > grey > light grey/white > brown (all) > red (all).
OR brown > light brown > lighter brown/white > red (all)
Thanks again.
1) I assume you mean doing this whole process with red. The difference would be in the depth of shadows and highlights. Especially with red (as it's a translucent color) undershading makes a big difference in the depth of the final color.
2) I would go Black>Grey>Brown Ink>Warm White (like an ivory)>Thin red glaze. If you want to get really crazy Black>Purple Ink>Grey>Brown Ink>Ivory>Red Glaze.
Vince Venturella Thankyou. Just clarifying, black (primed) > grey (90degrees) > brown ink (airbrushed 45degrees) then a warm white (above) > red ink (air brush glaze)?
Vince Venturella also, any recommendations on a red or brown ink? particularly a common one I might find in Aus ?
Black (Everywhere) > Grey (45 degrees) > Thinned Brown Ink (Everywhere) > Ivory (90 degrees directly from above) > Red Ink/Glaze (I would actually go for thinned paint for coverage, but it depends on the ink).
As for inks, I would say Vallejo. They are generally available everywhere from Amazon. If you can get the standard ink pack, that contains many useful colors including black, brown (Sepia), Purple, Blue, Red and Yellow.
Question for you, Vince. I have some GW Culexis assassins I'd like to use this method on. Is it even worth doing for black? I'd like to keep some subtle high points a very faint grey, but I found I just darkened it back down to black all over.
Yes, I do this with pure black. The key is you use very thin layers of black glazes in progressively smaller areas to bring everything to black while maintaining the highlight. Hope that helps.
Vince Venturella thanks! My first mistake was using flow improver instead of thinner, and my second mistake was being too hasty and not letting coats dry in b/w passes. Thanks again.
When using a pastel/soft colours in the greens and yellows what would you recommend because black, grey and white doesn't seem to be the best combo for them.
So for Orange, Green (sometimes - if I want yellow green) and Yellow, I do what you saw here with 2 changes. First, after the black and grey, I give the whole thing a thin coat of sepia ink (basically, tint the whole thing brown). Then I use Ivory or a warm white from above. Something like a rust (both dark and mid-tone) can also replace the black or grey as appropriate. Those provide a much better starting undershade for those colors.
Vince Venturella thank you
I tried this method on several minis and seem to be getting a speckle pattern the far end of mini from where the airbrush spray pattern ends. Shooting at 25 psi with a badger 105 .5mm needle.
So there are many options, specklin can always happen to some degree, it's what the airbrush is doing. That being said, the likely causes are either a) The paint isn't thinned enough (in which case add more thinner) b) The PSI is a little uneven or c) tip dry is chopping the paint as it travels through. I would try some additional thinning to start (I would also knock the PSI back to like 20PSI).
Vince Venturella would the thinner apply to Vallejo primer as well?
@@jabjab90301 100%, especially to primer. Nothing (and I mean nothing) goes through my airbrush without thinner. Primer generally goes through at a 1-2 ratio (1 thinner to 2 Primer).
Just an FYI, that's not a knock off space marine. That is a Terran Confederation Assault Armor from Cry HAVIC by Talon-Games
Good to know, only meant it tongue in cheek, but good to know, sometimes I end up with figures and don't remember where they are from.
This is really helpful! Would you still use the same approach for a model that is mostly black, such a black power amour?
So I have a video all about that - ruclips.net/video/dOhHSwNqxS4/видео.html
I zenith highlighted my chaos space marines, and did a test run on a spare mini. I think the paint may be to thick still or the psi to high. In any case, to reduce risk (since I need more practice), I could use the glazing technique to get the same result, correct? I'm using GW Thousand Sons Blue. I'm noticing that these paints tend to be difficult to thin. That or my airbrush needs replacing lol
Yep, going thinner with a low PSI is a good place to start. The bright, light blue is a tough one to thin, but my recommendation is to drop it to about 15 PSI and use mainly thinner. Thinner layers is always better.
@@VinceVenturella did it this morning but used a darker Vallejo paint (Imperial Blue). I went a bit to heavy. Still trying to get a feel for the control, but I can still make out the dark areas and lighter areas. So I'm really happy about how my first zenith came out. I have a cheaper starters airbrush so I think I may get a better one later on as i gain experience
So would you not recommend xenithal priming on a model that is going to be primarily wearing white armor?
It can still be a good thing, actually makes it much easier, it's just you are mainly working shades smoothing out the lower tones. It's a little different, but yes, it's still what I would do for a white model.
I'm getting my first airbrush in a week or so, so i've got alot to learn. as far as your process, what would you do to then paint the base after you have airbrushed the mini in this example? It seems like alot of people completely finish their bases separate of the models, but then some people seem to still paint the mini attached to an unfinished base. just curious, thanks for the video.
So in general, this happened to be attached to the base, but my normal process is to paint them completely separately. I finish the model, then finish the base, then put them together. If you want to do it with the figure attached, I would recommend the base be last, airbrush and do all your work on the mini, then brush paint the base to finish it out.
hope that helps.
@@VinceVenturella that does help thanks. just one further thing you could illuminate for me then is how you go about putting the two together without ruining the paint job on one of the parts. Is it all just pre drilled pins?
At what psi do you prime? You said 15 bar.. Did you mean 15 psi? Or does that mean like 30psi? Do you turn it down for the grey or the white?
I took an airbrush class and the guy was priming at 30psi but used the badger primer. He was actually talking mad crap about the vallejo primer. He was also using tons of paint with high flow. Where as I've watched you prime and it goes on very light, he was kind of "emptying the pot" with his priming. It worked out fine though, maybe because of the primer.
He said that vallejo primer takes 24 hours before you can add anything else. I'm thinking that is wrong and might only br true if one sprays at full paint flow.
I did buy one bottle of the badger primer to try it and to experiment myself but im pretty sure i will do it like you. Thin and controlled, not like trying to fill up a swimming pool that he was doing. But it DID turn out fine. I guess its just the different paint formulas.
He said vallejo is sticky and gloppy and takes 24 hours to cure. Im assuming that is only if you put it on super thick right?
I prime at the same I do for most everything, 18-ish PSI (basially 15-20 is fine).
All of that about the Vallejo Primer is silly. It's fine, It's my main primer and I have used it on hundreds, probably thousands of models. I prime with it and paint 5 minutes later. Angel Giraldez does the same as his primer and paints after 2-3 minutes. So that's all silly.
Basically I use either Vallejo or Badger, I actually like both and always prime with that PSI above and do it in a few thin coats of primer.
Could you use vallejo surface primer grey and white to act as the Zenithal paints? also, would this work with something like minitare ghost tints where you use metallics?
Absolutely, I know many people do. I prefer the normal paints but there is no difference for the final product.
Great and precise. I have started using Zenithal. I am wondering if you have used the technique on stone or bone and if a good result is possible.
best,
andrew
For stone it's a great place to start. You then just mess it up with cracks, drybrushing, washes and pigment. For bone there are a few options. You can cover the black with Brown, then go brown white (instead of grey) and then warm white. It's tougher with bone, because most bone color (though not all) is Warm White and zenithal is by it's nature with the grey, pure white and black a little cold. Hopefully that makes sense.
It does make sense thank you. For stone, could you do a grey glaze over the pre-shade, then do a black wash, then drybrush it with lighter greys?
I usually go straight into a white drybrush and stipple and then wash with Nuln Oil and re-drybrush lightly in a few places and add other washes or Pigment for color.
I'll give it a go and share a picture of the result. Lizardmen in natural greens and browns (with cool purples and blues in the recesses and faces) with all stone weapons.
The zenithal is so fun and easy. I'm finding it good to take a break from difficult projects that use time consuming techniques of layers and glazes by doing an easy project. Painting to a fast tabletop standard, learning to use impressions and squeeze the most out of your color choices to imply more detail than you actually painted can get a great result and also improve your fundamentals when you go back to the harder projects. I recommend a speed project to everyone.
Thanks as always! What I don't understand is do I want to avoid dark colors like deep blue from scale75 (as a glaze) for this or are they good for zenithal highlighting?
No, darker colors make better glazes generally, this is because they are more transparent. Good transparent glazes are those paints which don't have white in them, which generally means darker colors. This means the deeper colors, made very thin, are excellent glazes.
Thank you so much! :)
Question do you wait for the primer to dry for a day then add the cold gray then white or is it fine to apply all at once?
Never. I have never believed in that let the primer dry for a day thing, I have no idea where that comes from. I asked Angel Giraldez how long he lets his primer dry (and he is truly one of the world's master's with an airbrush), he said about 5 minutes. That was good enough for me.
Vince Venturella Yea my friend told me to wait for day to cure and I’m just like let me paint already 😠 but thanks you for replying
So if I understand correctly you wouldn't recommend this for like a hive tyrant or smthing?
Oh no, you could totally do it for that, you just need to adjust your stratgy slight and in fact, I have another video about how to do this on figure in unusual stances or with unusual body types in the playlist. :)
Aaaaaaand added to favourites
Happy to help. It's a topic I have several videos on and the normal way I paint, so you should see lots more in the series that matches up. Thanks again and always happy to answer questions.
I would love to see NMM bronze done for steam punk.
It's on the list for sure. Short advice before it happens, it's much like NMM gold, but you knock out 90% of the yellow, focusing instead on the brown tones. You can also use a slight verdigris as a pop color.
Super cool, I look forward to seeing that video once you get to it and thanks for the advice on it too!
do I need good ventilatod room to do air brushing?
can you describe your setup and your airbrush that you are using and the compressor
I airbrush in my office, which is in a basement and has no outside ventilation. As long as you are using a hood with a good filter (I bought the collapsible one from Amazon) and a mask, you should be just fine. My set-up is just a small desk with the booth on it. I fire up the fan, put on the mask and go to town.
As to Airbrush and compressor. I have several airbrushes. I like Iwata and Grex. My compressor is a Master generic compressor with a tank.
To be clear, you thin your paint. Is it a 1 part to 1 part paint to thinner ratio?
There is no one solid formula specifically sadly. It varies by type of paint and it varies a lot. What I will say is generally inks are best and you want it way more toward thinner, like 5 thinner to 1 ink.
Hi Vince, hope you still check these old vids. Just wondering which game colour your using for the white. Can’t seem to pick up the specific colour
Thanks in advance
It was Game Air dead white, but honestly, these days, I would use Daler Rowney FW White Ink. It's much smoother and easier to build up.
Thanks Vince, That’s on my list to get. I’ll try and pick up the fw range you have as soon as I can find a place in Oz that I can get all 3 lol.
i just got a bunch of unit from a player, all of them is only have a pure white prime and very done priming too. Is there any way i can do to add some Zenithal without priming them all over again ?
Sure, there are two easy things to do. 1, you can give them a thin wash with something like a nuln oil. That will give you the recess shadows. Then you can shoot from below with a dark black/grey. Think of it just like reverse zenithal light.
A video of zenithal highlighting without an airbrush would be helpful.
So I do it quite a bit in my Contrast Paints review, it's all brush work - ruclips.net/video/jla40wPw7_U/видео.html
Are you just thinning the paint, or further thinning airbrush paint?
Thanks
Further thinning airbrush paints AND using inks. Inks are a dream for this sort of thing because they are pigment rich but naturally quite transparent.
@@VinceVenturella on your warm zenithal video your light rust and aged white are at like a 4:2 ratio (paint to thinner). Would it be the same with the cold grey and white. Or any zenithal??
I was thinking about the edge highlighting part (since I love how it looks). After the zenith highlights, how about edge highlights in a solid white and then add the main color??
Sure, I frequently do that. I do the strong edges in white and then glaze them back.
What about yellow Vince? what base should I use? orange or a warm brown?
I would use a light warm brown (like Light Rust from Vallejo for example, a very ruddy brown).
I want to do quick ironjawz using the yellow armor theme and then simply adding a green brush glaze over the already highlighted yellow skin.
Yep, I would do the following.
1) Prime in grey black
2) Cover most everything in light rust (I would leave a very small amount of black)
3) 90 degree warm white (like an ivory or sand)
4) Quick shot of some pure white on the tops of plates.
5) Yellow all over.
Then go from there.
Vince Venturella Thank you! I will get on to it after I'm done my current project!