Greetings Mark. Thanks for the vote of confidence and the great shout out. Nice job on the follow rest. You'll really get a lot of use out of that. Though its not always possible, I have found that having the tool exit the part before the steady clears it, results in the best thread. Stay well sir and thanks again.
Thanks Joe. I still have a long way to go before I get the best out of this accessory for the lathe. It certainly opens up a lot of possibilities though. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 By the way, I am not now, have never been and at my age, never will be a machinist. But, I do love to watch a master machinist, which I consider you to be, at work. I had often wondered why a device such as this wasn't in common use.
Joe has that tendency to make everything look so easy. I could see the deflection at the end of the pass on the stainless threading. Well done all the same. 👍
Yes, the stainless was a challenge. I looked high and low to try to find a piece of nice free cutting steel but all I had was the stainless and some silver steel and being a bit of a tight arse, I didn't want to waste the silver steel cutting long demonstration threads. I don't know what grade of steel Joe uses but it seems to cut way more readily than what I had. Regards, Mark
Yes, I think the deflection at the end of the threading was causing a shallower cut, and hence the tight fit with the nut. Is there a reason to offset the support from the cutting tool? Also, for harder materials, might something like oil-impregnated bronze be better? But a great and relatively simple project (if you have the right tools and experience).
Love your work and channel Mark, Joe Pie was the inspiration for me to spend decent $$$ on a mill and lathe (Hare & Forbes MB51 & AL336D). Now I just have to learn how to use them properly as I'm not a machinist just a hobby turner. Channels like yours are immensely educational for people like me. Thanks mate
effing 336... have you noticed the major flaw yet? no other lathe has it (other than the same machine from other suppliers)... everytime i go to use it for certain jobs, i scream... wish i had spent the extra grand on the next one up, but of course at the time i didnt see the issue... cough cough... tailstock.... between centres...
For general use of the original follow rest you could have the compound at zero and move the tool away from the chuck until it just follows the rest. If you are concerned about cutting on the complete threading tool profile, back off the compound half the depth of cut per pass to simulate the 30 degree infeed.
I believe it is one of those curiously British descriptors. My wife was born in Singapore but her parents were British migrants. She grew up in Elizabeth, a working class suburb of Adelaide in South Australia. Most of the population were British or Scottish migrants. During her high school years, she was actually just one year apart from the legendary Aussie pop star, Jimmy Barnes of Cold Chisel fame. Regards, Mark
G'day Mark, thanks for another lathe project to add to the list. 😀 I noticed the safety troll bait during the casting pour🙄 Please keep the videos coming.
I think the best way for that type of follow rest is v-sloth on that plastic part. It can keep rod with any position of cutter, or any direction of spinning.
Hi Mark, You didn't show how you pushed the thread cutting bit in, but judging from the surface roughness of the thread it was straight. In that case the point cuts both thread flanks at the same time and that results in a non-optimal surface of the thread flanks. There are all kinds of tricks to prevent this, such as placing the compound at an angle and feeding with it, but I find the simplest method is to alternately turn the thread cutting point 0.02 to 0.05 mm (depending on the d.o.c) to the left and right with the compound slide. This way you always cut on only one flank, and that gives a nicer chip, and a smoother surface. And I use, especially at the end, a tiny depth of cut.
You are correct. I was just advancing the tool bit at 90 degrees to the axis of the lathe. I was advancing the compound (a bit) but in hindsight I should have done it conventionally by setting the compound over to half the included angle. If I were committed to making a part which wasn't just a demo I think I would have taken a lot more care. I guess it was mostly a proof of concept thing. Regards, Mark
Yes. It's a trade name. Usually a reddish brown colour, and you can see the layers of linen in a crosscut face. Can be expensive, but there are sources of offcuts or salvage if you know where to look. Speak to your local electrical contractors for tips on where to find some suitable bits.
Nice one Mark, I have never been able to work out why follower rests often don’t support where you think they should. Looking forward to to seeming the new project.
I guess most threading work on larger parts is done conventionally, towards the headstock. It would be nice if the OEM follow rests had some flexibility in how the work is supported though. Regards, Mark
First off a mighty loud WELL DONE ! ! on your cast and machined version. It looks spiffy as blazes. Just needs some of your avocado green paint to make it blend right in ! ! A spring pass for that final pass for the fit might have been a better option for nailing the easy running but minimal clearance nut fit. And it might be worth re-setting the phenolic rest for the final pass or two to make up for the wear from the roughing passes? As you found out it takes precious little on these small threads to go from doesn't quite want to run to wobbly loose. I tried fitting the follow rest for my 12x36 lathe and it's a monstrous beast of a thing. I might find a longer item to use it on at some point. But in the meantime did run across a case for needing a Joe Pie style mini item rest. I made do but the rest would have been nicer. Your video is encouraging me to put in a day or so of quality shop time. In my case I'll screw or weld it from some steel stock. But the results will be much the same.
Thanks. I have a feeling the geometry of my inverted HSS tool was a bit off. It was tearing the flanks off the stainless steel but the brass machined beautifully. However, wait until you see the next project which will give even better results on small threads. Regards, Mark
Definitely 2nd you on spring passes. I've messed up so many times on a tight single point cut threads by adding a cut rather than a spring pass or two.
I'd guess the tool post isn't stock and that may be why the traveling rest doesn't meet up with the cutting tool. Project turned out very nice as usual, which is why I don't have a U tube channel. I enjoy your content, thanks for sharing.
I do have the original square tool post that came with the lathe but it has a similar offset. I get the feeling that the stock Colchester travelling steady was for supporting very long workpieces that may have been setup with tailstock support as well. If you were screwcutting something that long you would need some support near the tip of the cutting tool but not necessarily in line with it. Regards, Mark
So enjoy your clips Mark. My dad was a precision engineer and although I didn't follow in his footsteps, I still so appreciate anything engineering associated. I particularly like the way that you present what you're doing in such a down to earth manner. Tom (NZ)
Thanks Tom. I may not be the best at what I do but I sure get a lot of enjoyment out of making things. I guess that is what I want to achieve with the videos. I want others to get that sense of achievement, even if the project isn't 100%. Regards, Mark
Joe pie cut a saddle in the resin with a milling cutter which will give much better support. I like that method. other than that you have inspired me to build one. Well done.
That works great if you have a milling cutter with exactly the correct diameter. As a hobbyist, I tend to have a limited supply of cutters and often I just wouldn't have the size I need for a particular thread. Regards, Mark
It works great! I suffer from having very unsteady hands and I often used to mess up the mould just at the critical point when you go to remove the pattern. Regards, Mark
I hit "comment" before watching the final run on the stainless. MHW is right, there was some push away on the last 5 or 6 passes. So resetting the phenolic after the roughing cuts would be worthwhile. And perhaps the solid phenolic isn't the best option for fending off the wear either. There are some wear resistant phenolics. Apparently a recent more resistant type doped up with something called "attapulgite nanofibers" and good ol' carbon fibers is the new leader in dry or oiled wear resistance. No idea what it costs. I do seem to recall seeing some earlier sorts of wear resistant composite phenolics too. I'm thinking too that for steel threading that a brass plate would not be a bad option either.
There are certainly better materials than what I used. I am thinking bronze and carbon fibre. There are also certain wood products that I want to try. Some of the Australian "desert hardwoods" like mulga and gidgee would be worthwhile. Mulga wood is extremely dense and it has similar properties to bronze. It is self lubricating too having a waxy resin in the heartwood which is activated by heat. Regards, Mark
The fixed steady was a one off custom for my Colchester. It was based on a design used on the Hercus ATM 260 lathes that we had at work. I just bought one home and reverse engineered it to suit the different centre height of my Colchester. Mine was made entirely from aluminium castings with steel fingers tipped with bronze. The hard part is measuring the bed vee and getting the spacings correct for mounting on the bed. The Hercus steadys were made from cast iron which is a way better material. If I had owned a decent 3D printer back then I would have printed a mock up before starting on the castings but they seemed to turn out OK. Regards, Mark
I was thinking of making a similar inspired rest tool but using a chunk of brass which was customized to thread like JP did with his phenolic... Figured the brass has lubricity and would work well.
The next one is going to be a long and protracted build but it has a lot of interesting parts and mechanisms which are probably just outside my skill set. That's how you learn though. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark, two things … the only way I can get my (original) south bend follow rest to support the work piece properly was to remove the quick change and use the lantern post tool holder and I sure that would not work with small diameter stock. Second, I heard several machinists sort of dismiss the need to keep the half nut engaged and reverse the lathe to cut metric threads, the reason behind this is the lack of a threading dial. A imperial threading dial synchronizes the spindle to carriage with a single gear … but metric system uses powers of 10, so depending on the thread pitch synchronization requires a gear to compensate for both powers of 2 and 5, so you need a rather large set of gears to sync the threading dial for a reasonable range on metric thread pitches. There’s a nice patent for a “quick” change metric threading dial. This is the only place I have encountered an advantage of imperial over metric system.
My lathe has an imperial lead screw but the threading gearbox has a set of translating gears which allows for cutting metric threads. However it means having to keep the half nuts engaged. There is a technique that allows for disengaging the half nuts as long as you mark the exact position on the threading dial and then re-engage it at the same mark. Regards, Preso
It did come with one of those square turrets but the offset is about the same. In the original Colchester manual it shows the follow rest being used to support a long piece of bar stock being threaded between centres. In that scenario it works fine since the work is supported at both ends and the follow rest is able to "follow" the tool point at a fixed distance throughout the cut. On small work it doesn't really help though.
Another cool video encompassing lots of techniques - as a quick reminder for everyone, for the stuff that's off-camera, parkerizing and powder coating, Mark has a great and helpful series on metal finishing, give em a go on your off time, you will appreciate! From Canada with love, thanks for the kangaroo footage, they are neat odd animals!
Thanks. Powder coating and parkerising are my two favourite finishing techniques. We get to see a lot of the kangaroos in their daily habits. I cannot help thinking what the first European settlers would have made of seeing a female carrying a joey in the pouch. It's such a weird anomaly in the world of animal biology. Regards, Mark
Looks like a great idea that could be adapted to most any lathe, just out of curiosity wouldn’t a V in your phenolic give more support than the step that you used ? 🤔 !
I am not sure how the geometry affects the amount of support you get. I am no physics professor but my rudimentary knowledge of vectors tells me that the forces would act at 45 degrees to the horizontal and vertical planes. At the end of the day, I think that either a vee or a step shape will do the job equally well. Regards, Mark
Top work. Joe Pie is the real deal - often immitated and never bettered. Watching his channel fundamentally altered my approach to machining. This tool you have made is really good, and one any miniature machinist should have. Best wishes. Edit: PS kinda cool having Ralfy up there next to my sticker. He’s a good egg and likes cats. 👍
No question that Joe Pie is a master at micro brain surgery! He does make it look easy but he has over 40 years of experience behind him. You are a multi-talented individual with your pattern making and casting. That lathe is perfect for tool post accessories. My Rockwell is not a good platform for many of the accessories I wish I could use. To quote Mr. Churchill's famous saying K.B.O.! "Keep Buggering On!" Thanks mate! Made my morning!
The shrinkage would have been avoided if you pour into the thickest part of the casting as that would be the last part to cool. But hey it's still usable.
Hi Mark. Cool episode. I enjoy Joe Pi, too. My dad was a "loom fixer" by training, a mechanic who maintained and customized weaving equipment. He used a material brand named Micarta for many parts. I think that was linen phenolic.
I have heard it called Tufnol and Micarta. I meant to try using a piece of really dense hardwood instead of the phenolic resin. There is a type of desert wood found in south west Queensland called Mulga. It machines like steel and is super hard and it has a natural waxy resin throughout the heartwood. I am fairly sure it would have the same properties as a linen phenolic. Regards, Mark
Interesting video indeed. Based on the amount of deflection with the steel workpiece and the wear on the phenolic I would be inclined to try a piece of sacrificial brass bar there to support the work. Worth a go? Thanks for posting.
I am keen to try a piece of bronze but getting a solid piece of that size is going to be hard. I could machine it from some round bar stock but you end up turning a lot of expensive material into chips. If I can find a suitable scrap bronze part I will try to cast up some rectangular bars. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 A thrifty (not to say cheap) guy like myself would silver solder a piece of brass / bronze flat to a steel bar. I wouldn't fire up a furnace for that unless I knew it was going to work, eh?
The travelling steady on my Smart & Brown 1024 used a notched bar instead of the two fingers. They used bronze for the notch. The big issue is not raising a burr on the work as you cut it.
Very nice work on the travelling steady. Could bronze be used in place of the phenolic. I guess you need to readjust the rest as you machine the material to stop it flexing. I was warned when cutting phenolic, to be careful not to breathe in the dust. Apparently dangerous to the lungs. I remember working with Paxolin as it was known 50 years ago, but had no idea of the dangers then. I’m sure you know this. Cheers Nobby
Nobby. I am going to try to replace the pheolic (which I now think is just plain Bakelite) with a bronze casting. Bakelite contains formaldehyde which one of the reasons it was phased out in favour of modern thermoplastics. I worked in a factory that made Bakelite fishing reels when I was in college. The red powder coated everything in the vicinity of the moulding machines. This was back in the late 70's and I doubt that they could get away with it these days. Regards, Mark
You can do that and that is what Joe Pie showed on one of his videos but that assumes you have the correct diameter end mill and if it wears you need to mill it all off and start again. I will sometimes adjust the step towards the end of the turning to ensure it is still in tight contact with the work. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark, I have a suggestion for your patterns. I have had a lot of success 3D printing two patterns: a drag pattern to the split line and the second pattern, which is full size. Using this technique, there is no issue with aligning the cope and drag sides.
That sounds interesting. My problem these days is remembering all these techniques for use at a later stage. I don't write things down so I have to try to just store it away. Regards, Mark
It’s such a cool adaptation you made here. You’ve mastered many metalworking techniques beautifully. Is there a reason it must be phenolic (linen, cotton or otherwise)? Can’t you substitute the bar with brass? Or make the same thing that commercial tool makers use: a steel bar with brass tip.
I think that bronze would be the way to go. I am going to look out for a suitable scrap bronze part and try casting a rectangular bar to replace what I now think is just Bakelite. Regards, Mark
A little trick when cutting threads where you can't open the half-nut. Turns out that you can. When you accidentally opened the half-nut and stopped the lathe, if you had taken a look at the threading dial you would have noticed that the dial hadn't rotated much past the mark you used when you set up to cut the thread. The trick is to reverse the rotation of the lathe and when the initial mark comes back up, re-engage the half nut. The work and the lead screw are now re-synchronized. This trick is useful when threading up to a shoulder and the lathe has no spindle brake. Thread to the shoulder and disengage the half nut and cut power to the lathe. Back out the threading tool and reverse the spindle. When that starting mark comes back up, engage the half-nut and back the carriage up as you normally would. The casting you made is very nice.
Thanks. A tiny piece of my brain tells me that I have heard that explanation before. It makes total sense. I have never tried it and I must try to remember if I am ever 95% of the way through a complicated part with a metric thread. Regards, Mark
For a source of the genuine linen phenolic, try your local motor rewinding shops or places that make and assemble electrical panels. Either that or ask your local scrap yard to keep an eye out for scrapped electrical panels. You might be able to salvage small parts. Yes, Joe has some marvelous ideas and always makes them look easy. Which they are, after 30 years of machining and clock making experience. Regards from Canada's banana belt. 🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🇺🇦🕊🇦🇺🐨🪃👍
Thanks. I have some carbon fibre panels but they are only about 8mm thick. I could probably buy some micarta or a paper or linen phenolic but sourcing it in small quantities is always an issue. In the long term, I want to try casting a bronze replica of the support finger. Regards, Mark
That linen phenolic would be Paxolin or Tufnol. I cannot remember which is which, one is paper reinforced the other cotton. I recall that Tufnol do a big range of things, but I haven't used it in probably 20 years.
@flyerphil7708 Many thanks. Used to use Tufnol and Paxolin quite a bit 40 odd years ago, when I was still an Engineer in the Merchant Navy. Couldn't for the life of me remember which was which.
I did use some Tufnol to make leaf springs for my Conway steam locomotive. I should have realised by the colour that what I bought for the follow rest was just solid Bakelite. Regards, Mark
@@billdoodson4232 I bought 2 x 1M square sheets of 3/8” Tuffnol from a scrap dealer recently, dead cheap but no idea what to do with it yet. He said it was ex Navy.
I was using some Tap Magic but in future I will set up the compound slide to advance the tool at half the thread angle. For the demo, I was just advancing the tool straight in. Regards, Mark
Mark, greetings from Iowa, USA! I wonder if you have paper phenolic? I use a lot of it for machine parts. It doesn't show lines like linen or canvas phenolic does, but it's still very tough with similar wear characteristics. I look forward to your videos and usually learn something. Btw, love the rocket lava lamp and table!
Thanks for watching my videos. We have finally finished furnishing the MCM suite. It's sort of understated but a nice little time capsule nonetheless. I think what I bought for the follow rest finger is just Bakelite. You can chip it so I don't think it has any reinforcement. I used to work in a factory during my college training years. They made fishing reels from Bakelite. I remember the red powder coated everything in that part of the factory. They later switched to using a fibreglass resin "dough" that cured in the heated moulds in a few minutes. The fibreglass was tougher than the plain Bakelite but I thought the mottled red and maroon colour of the Bakelite was more attractive. Regards, Mark
You sort of really need it to be able to be released in case of some potential disaster like forgetting to reverse the drive at the end of the cut. As it turns out, you can (if you remember) mark the position of the threading dial and then reengage the half nut at the same point after moving the carriage and it should pick up the thread. Regards, Mark
Do you have some around 16mm thick? I would be keen to get some. I am happy to pay you for it. It's just hard to get in small quantities here in the colonies. Perhaps email me mark.presling@gmail.com Regards, Mark
It didn't really matter where the key went in relation to the machined face. There are almost no specific dimensions on the entire part except for the width and height of the key. However, if you were making a batch of them, you would want consistency and then you would need to offset from the machined face. Regards, Mark
Hi, it could be the original follow rest was designed to work with the original tool holder which would have probably been nearer to the tips. nice video thank you ATB Mark
I do have the original square tool post that came with my lathe but it has a similar offset to the quick change tool holders. I also have the manuals for the Colchester and it shows the follow rest being used to support a long piece of bar stock being threaded between centres. For those sort of jobs the offset isn't really a problem. It just allows for some support near the cutting tool at a fixed distance during the cut. For small work though the offset becomes and issue. Regards, Mark
I have a Shop Vac but it gets clogged very easily especially when there is a lot of long stringy swarf. It is good for cast iron and powdery swarf though. Regards, Mark
I have heard it called both travelling steady and follow rest. In the original Colchester manual it is called a "travelling steady rest". I think the name "follow rest" was given because the point of support "follows" the tool point. Regards, Mark
There is a range of movement via the compound slide so that you can put the tool point either left or right of the support finger. I had the compound set up parallel to the Z axis of the lathe which gives more range but it's not as good as having the compound set over to half the tool tip angle. You still have some adjustment and that is the more conventional way to cut the thread. Regards, Mark
No, if you are referring to Eccentric Engineering, he is operating out of Melbourne here in Oz. I will be working with Cliff Hall from Threadexpress or Hallmark Engineering in Wellington. Regards, Mark
Greetings Mark. Thanks for the vote of confidence and the great shout out. Nice job on the follow rest. You'll really get a lot of use out of that. Though its not always possible, I have found that having the tool exit the part before the steady clears it, results in the best thread. Stay well sir and thanks again.
Also nice tee shirt but I notice a spelling error. It's Texas not TeHas
Thanks Joe. I still have a long way to go before I get the best out of this accessory for the lathe. It certainly opens up a lot of possibilities though.
Regards,
Mark
That's just one of those fonts that look a bit confusing sometimes.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 👍
@@Preso58 By the way, I am not now, have never been and at my age, never will be a machinist. But, I do love to watch a master machinist, which I consider you to be, at work. I had often wondered why a device such as this wasn't in common use.
Joe has that tendency to make everything look so easy. I could see the deflection at the end of the pass on the stainless threading. Well done all the same. 👍
Yes, the stainless was a challenge. I looked high and low to try to find a piece of nice free cutting steel but all I had was the stainless and some silver steel and being a bit of a tight arse, I didn't want to waste the silver steel cutting long demonstration threads. I don't know what grade of steel Joe uses but it seems to cut way more readily than what I had.
Regards,
Mark
Yes, I think the deflection at the end of the threading was causing a shallower cut, and hence the tight fit with the nut. Is there a reason to offset the support from the cutting tool? Also, for harder materials, might something like oil-impregnated bronze be better? But a great and relatively simple project (if you have the right tools and experience).
@@Preso58that stainless you were using Mark looked to be something like 316 the way it was cutting.
Perhaps the follower is made to match a lantern tool post. Excellent vid. Cheers.
Love your work and channel Mark, Joe Pie was the inspiration for me to spend decent $$$ on a mill and lathe (Hare & Forbes MB51 & AL336D). Now I just have to learn how to use them properly as I'm not a machinist just a hobby turner. Channels like yours are immensely educational for people like me. Thanks mate
Thanks for that. I too have learned a lot from Joe's work.
Regards,
Mark
effing 336... have you noticed the major flaw yet?
no other lathe has it (other than the same machine from other suppliers)... everytime i go to use it for certain jobs, i scream... wish i had spent the extra grand on the next one up, but of course at the time i didnt see the issue...
cough cough... tailstock.... between centres...
For general use of the original follow rest you could have the compound at zero and move the tool away from the chuck until it just follows the rest. If you are concerned about cutting on the complete threading tool profile, back off the compound half the depth of cut per pass to simulate the 30 degree infeed.
Outstanding. A show by Mark inspied by Joe gives you the best of both.
Perfect idea, thanks
Manky is an excellent descriptor. It's the second time I have heard it on RUclips today.
I believe it is one of those curiously British descriptors. My wife was born in Singapore but her parents were British migrants. She grew up in Elizabeth, a working class suburb of Adelaide in South Australia. Most of the population were British or Scottish migrants. During her high school years, she was actually just one year apart from the legendary Aussie pop star, Jimmy Barnes of Cold Chisel fame.
Regards,
Mark
G'day Mark, thanks for another lathe project to add to the list. 😀 I noticed the safety troll bait during the casting pour🙄 Please keep the videos coming.
Hmmm. I thought I ticked all the workplace health and safety boxes when I did that pour. I will have to look out for "that" comment.
Regards,
Mark
I think the best way for that type of follow rest is v-sloth on that plastic part. It can keep rod with any position of cutter, or any direction of spinning.
p.s. I really enjoy your wildlife clips!
Hi Mark,
You didn't show how you pushed the thread cutting bit in, but judging from the surface roughness of the thread it was straight. In that case the point cuts both thread flanks at the same time and that results in a non-optimal surface of the thread flanks. There are all kinds of tricks to prevent this, such as placing the compound at an angle and feeding with it, but I find the simplest method is to alternately turn the thread cutting point 0.02 to 0.05 mm (depending on the d.o.c) to the left and right with the compound slide. This way you always cut on only one flank, and that gives a nicer chip, and a smoother surface. And I use, especially at the end, a tiny depth of cut.
You are correct. I was just advancing the tool bit at 90 degrees to the axis of the lathe. I was advancing the compound (a bit) but in hindsight I should have done it conventionally by setting the compound over to half the included angle. If I were committed to making a part which wasn't just a demo I think I would have taken a lot more care. I guess it was mostly a proof of concept thing.
Regards,
Mark
Is linen phenolic what the older generation call Tuffnoll , great job Mark
Yes. It's a trade name. Usually a reddish brown colour, and you can see the layers of linen in a crosscut face. Can be expensive, but there are sources of offcuts or salvage if you know where to look. Speak to your local electrical contractors for tips on where to find some suitable bits.
Also known as Micarta.
Nice one Mark, I have never been able to work out why follower rests often don’t support where you think they should. Looking forward to to seeming the new project.
I guess most threading work on larger parts is done conventionally, towards the headstock. It would be nice if the OEM follow rests had some flexibility in how the work is supported though.
Regards,
Mark
First off a mighty loud WELL DONE ! ! on your cast and machined version. It looks spiffy as blazes. Just needs some of your avocado green paint to make it blend right in ! !
A spring pass for that final pass for the fit might have been a better option for nailing the easy running but minimal clearance nut fit. And it might be worth re-setting the phenolic rest for the final pass or two to make up for the wear from the roughing passes? As you found out it takes precious little on these small threads to go from doesn't quite want to run to wobbly loose.
I tried fitting the follow rest for my 12x36 lathe and it's a monstrous beast of a thing. I might find a longer item to use it on at some point. But in the meantime did run across a case for needing a Joe Pie style mini item rest. I made do but the rest would have been nicer. Your video is encouraging me to put in a day or so of quality shop time. In my case I'll screw or weld it from some steel stock. But the results will be much the same.
Thanks. I have a feeling the geometry of my inverted HSS tool was a bit off. It was tearing the flanks off the stainless steel but the brass machined beautifully. However, wait until you see the next project which will give even better results on small threads.
Regards,
Mark
Definitely 2nd you on spring passes. I've messed up so many times on a tight single point cut threads by adding a cut rather than a spring pass or two.
I'd guess the tool post isn't stock and that may be why the traveling rest doesn't meet up with the cutting tool.
Project turned out very nice as usual, which is why I don't have a U tube channel.
I enjoy your content, thanks for sharing.
I do have the original square tool post that came with the lathe but it has a similar offset. I get the feeling that the stock Colchester travelling steady was for supporting very long workpieces that may have been setup with tailstock support as well. If you were screwcutting something that long you would need some support near the tip of the cutting tool but not necessarily in line with it.
Regards,
Mark
Excellent demonstration and project. I don’t have a follow rest for my Boxford so this is giving me lots of ideas. Thanks for putting this together.
So enjoy your clips Mark. My dad was a precision engineer and although I didn't follow in his footsteps, I still so appreciate anything engineering associated. I particularly like the way that you present what you're doing in such a down to earth manner. Tom (NZ)
Thanks Tom. I may not be the best at what I do but I sure get a lot of enjoyment out of making things. I guess that is what I want to achieve with the videos. I want others to get that sense of achievement, even if the project isn't 100%.
Regards,
Mark
6:50 Happy days Presso buddy, thanks for sharing, great work mate hope you are keeping well 👍
Thanks Ralfy. I am always keen to have new stickers on the door.
Regards,
Mark
Mark Pressling dropping the “F Bomb” was probably the most entertaining thing about an already enjoyable video…..! 😂😂
Yes, sorry about that. 😁 My mother would have been "disappointed".
Regards,
Mark
Joe pie cut a saddle in the resin with a milling cutter which will give much better support.
I like that method. other than that you have inspired me to build one. Well done.
That works great if you have a milling cutter with exactly the correct diameter. As a hobbyist, I tend to have a limited supply of cutters and often I just wouldn't have the size I need for a particular thread.
Regards,
Mark
That tool for lifting the pattern is brillo. Not seen that before
It works great! I suffer from having very unsteady hands and I often used to mess up the mould just at the critical point when you go to remove the pattern.
Regards,
Mark
Good Show Mate: as per normal. I don't need one of these but it was fun watching you do it.
The old rest is in the right place if you had the original lantern type tool holder on the lathe.
Ha! Good catch! Very good catch indeed...
Best regards!
Steuss
Which I don't have unfortunately.
Regards,
Mark
I hit "comment" before watching the final run on the stainless. MHW is right, there was some push away on the last 5 or 6 passes. So resetting the phenolic after the roughing cuts would be worthwhile. And perhaps the solid phenolic isn't the best option for fending off the wear either. There are some wear resistant phenolics. Apparently a recent more resistant type doped up with something called "attapulgite nanofibers" and good ol' carbon fibers is the new leader in dry or oiled wear resistance. No idea what it costs. I do seem to recall seeing some earlier sorts of wear resistant composite phenolics too.
I'm thinking too that for steel threading that a brass plate would not be a bad option either.
There are certainly better materials than what I used. I am thinking bronze and carbon fibre. There are also certain wood products that I want to try. Some of the Australian "desert hardwoods" like mulga and gidgee would be worthwhile. Mulga wood is extremely dense and it has similar properties to bronze. It is self lubricating too having a waxy resin in the heartwood which is activated by heat.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks Mark. Another interesting small project. Can you, please, make a short overview of your steady rest ? is that entirely shop made ?
The fixed steady was a one off custom for my Colchester. It was based on a design used on the Hercus ATM 260 lathes that we had at work. I just bought one home and reverse engineered it to suit the different centre height of my Colchester. Mine was made entirely from aluminium castings with steel fingers tipped with bronze. The hard part is measuring the bed vee and getting the spacings correct for mounting on the bed. The Hercus steadys were made from cast iron which is a way better material. If I had owned a decent 3D printer back then I would have printed a mock up before starting on the castings but they seemed to turn out OK.
Regards,
Mark
Ah, another fine video by Mark Presling... Always a pleasure seeing your work...
Best regards!
Steuss
Very interesting and inspiring. Thanks. Gave me a lot of ideas. He he. Nice work sir
Gday Preso, what’s a great idea for a follow rest, works well mate, great job, cheers
Thanks Matty. It's simple but effective.
Regards,
Mark
I was thinking of making a similar inspired rest tool but using a chunk of brass which was customized to thread like JP did with his phenolic... Figured the brass has lubricity and would work well.
Brass would be good and bronze probably better.
Regards,
Mark
Another excellent video Mark, looking forward to you're next project. Central Pennsylvania USA.
The next one is going to be a long and protracted build but it has a lot of interesting parts and mechanisms which are probably just outside my skill set. That's how you learn though.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark, two things … the only way I can get my (original) south bend follow rest to support the work piece properly was to remove the quick change and use the lantern post tool holder and I sure that would not work with small diameter stock. Second, I heard several machinists sort of dismiss the need to keep the half nut engaged and reverse the lathe to cut metric threads, the reason behind this is the lack of a threading dial. A imperial threading dial synchronizes the spindle to carriage with a single gear … but metric system uses powers of 10, so depending on the thread pitch synchronization requires a gear to compensate for both powers of 2 and 5, so you need a rather large set of gears to sync the threading dial for a reasonable range on metric thread pitches. There’s a nice patent for a “quick” change metric threading dial. This is the only place I have encountered an advantage of imperial over metric system.
My lathe has an imperial lead screw but the threading gearbox has a set of translating gears which allows for cutting metric threads. However it means having to keep the half nuts engaged. There is a technique that allows for disengaging the half nuts as long as you mark the exact position on the threading dial and then re-engage it at the same mark.
Regards,
Preso
Thanks for the video
looking forward to the upcoming series , I don't have a mill but I'm still very interested
Nice video. Cool tool.
Excellent work Mark.Thank you for sharing.
Hi Mark Thank you for sharing the follow rest I will find this very useful with small threads. Looking forward to the next build.
5:12 purely a guess, but if the lathe originally came with a non-quick change toolpost, the tool would have been more to the right.
It did come with one of those square turrets but the offset is about the same. In the original Colchester manual it shows the follow rest being used to support a long piece of bar stock being threaded between centres. In that scenario it works fine since the work is supported at both ends and the follow rest is able to "follow" the tool point at a fixed distance throughout the cut. On small work it doesn't really help though.
Looking forward to the new series, thanks
It's going to be "interesting" and "challenging".
Regards,
Mark
Great job mate You are very meticulous in everything you do.
Well done.
Another cool video encompassing lots of techniques - as a quick reminder for everyone, for the stuff that's off-camera, parkerizing and powder coating, Mark has a great and helpful series on metal finishing, give em a go on your off time, you will appreciate!
From Canada with love, thanks for the kangaroo footage, they are neat odd animals!
Thanks. Powder coating and parkerising are my two favourite finishing techniques. We get to see a lot of the kangaroos in their daily habits. I cannot help thinking what the first European settlers would have made of seeing a female carrying a joey in the pouch. It's such a weird anomaly in the world of animal biology.
Regards,
Mark
Looks like a great idea that could be adapted to most any lathe, just out of curiosity wouldn’t a V in your phenolic give more support than the step that you used ? 🤔 !
I am not sure how the geometry affects the amount of support you get. I am no physics professor but my rudimentary knowledge of vectors tells me that the forces would act at 45 degrees to the horizontal and vertical planes. At the end of the day, I think that either a vee or a step shape will do the job equally well.
Regards,
Mark
Top work. Joe Pie is the real deal - often immitated and never bettered. Watching his channel fundamentally altered my approach to machining. This tool you have made is really good, and one any miniature machinist should have. Best wishes.
Edit: PS kinda cool having Ralfy up there next to my sticker. He’s a good egg and likes cats. 👍
No question that Joe Pie is a master at micro brain surgery! He does make it look easy but he has over 40 years of experience behind him. You are a multi-talented individual with your pattern making and casting. That lathe is perfect for tool post accessories. My Rockwell is not a good platform for many of the accessories I wish I could use. To quote Mr. Churchill's famous saying K.B.O.! "Keep Buggering On!" Thanks mate! Made my morning!
Thanks. I love watching Joe Pie's work. He has taught me a lot.
Regards,
Mark
The shrinkage would have been avoided if you pour into the thickest part of the casting as that would be the last part to cool. But hey it's still usable.
I must say that I am a bit of a "suck it and see" foundryman.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark. Cool episode. I enjoy Joe Pi, too. My dad was a "loom fixer" by training, a mechanic who maintained and customized weaving equipment. He used a material brand named Micarta for many parts. I think that was linen phenolic.
I have heard it called Tufnol and Micarta. I meant to try using a piece of really dense hardwood instead of the phenolic resin. There is a type of desert wood found in south west Queensland called Mulga. It machines like steel and is super hard and it has a natural waxy resin throughout the heartwood. I am fairly sure it would have the same properties as a linen phenolic.
Regards,
Mark
Interesting video indeed. Based on the amount of deflection with the steel workpiece and the wear on the phenolic I would be inclined to try a piece of sacrificial brass bar there to support the work. Worth a go? Thanks for posting.
I am keen to try a piece of bronze but getting a solid piece of that size is going to be hard. I could machine it from some round bar stock but you end up turning a lot of expensive material into chips. If I can find a suitable scrap bronze part I will try to cast up some rectangular bars.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 A thrifty (not to say cheap) guy like myself would silver solder a piece of brass / bronze flat to a steel bar. I wouldn't fire up a furnace for that unless I knew it was going to work, eh?
Nice work Mark.
The travelling steady on my Smart & Brown 1024 used a notched bar instead of the two fingers. They used bronze for the notch. The big issue is not raising a burr on the work as you cut it.
Very nice work on the travelling steady. Could bronze be used in place of the phenolic. I guess you need to readjust the rest as you machine the material to stop it flexing. I was warned when cutting phenolic, to be careful not to breathe in the dust. Apparently dangerous to the lungs. I remember working with Paxolin as it was known 50 years ago, but had no idea of the dangers then. I’m sure you know this. Cheers Nobby
Nobby. I am going to try to replace the pheolic (which I now think is just plain Bakelite) with a bronze casting. Bakelite contains formaldehyde which one of the reasons it was phased out in favour of modern thermoplastics. I worked in a factory that made Bakelite fishing reels when I was in college. The red powder coated everything in the vicinity of the moulding machines. This was back in the late 70's and I doubt that they could get away with it these days.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for sharing 👍 kind of impressive. How about trying to do a 0-80 next.😅
If only my eyes were good enough to do that!
Regards,
Mark
I would call that a win too. Once you get used to it, the sky is the limit.
Could you put endmill in the chuck, and mill a half circle into your phenolic, that way it could hold 180 degrees.
Btw hope you doing well bud💪
You can do that and that is what Joe Pie showed on one of his videos but that assumes you have the correct diameter end mill and if it wears you need to mill it all off and start again. I will sometimes adjust the step towards the end of the turning to ensure it is still in tight contact with the work.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark, I have a suggestion for your patterns. I have had a lot of success 3D printing two patterns: a drag pattern to the split line and the second pattern, which is full size. Using this technique, there is no issue with aligning the cope and drag sides.
That sounds interesting. My problem these days is remembering all these techniques for use at a later stage. I don't write things down so I have to try to just store it away.
Regards,
Mark
It’s such a cool adaptation you made here. You’ve mastered many metalworking techniques beautifully.
Is there a reason it must be phenolic (linen, cotton or otherwise)? Can’t you substitute the bar with brass? Or make the same thing that commercial tool makers use: a steel bar with brass tip.
I think that bronze would be the way to go. I am going to look out for a suitable scrap bronze part and try casting a rectangular bar to replace what I now think is just Bakelite.
Regards,
Mark
A little trick when cutting threads where you can't open the half-nut. Turns out that you can. When you accidentally opened the half-nut and stopped the lathe, if you had taken a look at the threading dial you would have noticed that the dial hadn't rotated much past the mark you used when you set up to cut the thread. The trick is to reverse the rotation of the lathe and when the initial mark comes back up, re-engage the half nut. The work and the lead screw are now re-synchronized.
This trick is useful when threading up to a shoulder and the lathe has no spindle brake. Thread to the shoulder and disengage the half nut and cut power to the lathe. Back out the threading tool and reverse the spindle. When that starting mark comes back up, engage the half-nut and back the carriage up as you normally would.
The casting you made is very nice.
Thanks. A tiny piece of my brain tells me that I have heard that explanation before. It makes total sense. I have never tried it and I must try to remember if I am ever 95% of the way through a complicated part with a metric thread.
Regards,
Mark
For a source of the genuine linen phenolic, try your local motor rewinding shops or places that make and assemble electrical panels. Either that or ask your local scrap yard to keep an eye out for scrapped electrical panels. You might be able to salvage small parts.
Yes, Joe has some marvelous ideas and always makes them look easy. Which they are, after 30 years of machining and clock making experience.
Regards from Canada's banana belt. 🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🇺🇦🕊🇦🇺🐨🪃👍
Thanks. I have some carbon fibre panels but they are only about 8mm thick. I could probably buy some micarta or a paper or linen phenolic but sourcing it in small quantities is always an issue. In the long term, I want to try casting a bronze replica of the support finger.
Regards,
Mark
12:46 - Face shields work much better in the lowered position.
Doh', I wanted to look good for the camera!
Regards,
Mark
That linen phenolic would be Paxolin or Tufnol. I cannot remember which is which, one is paper reinforced the other cotton. I recall that Tufnol do a big range of things, but I haven't used it in probably 20 years.
Paxolin is paper. Tuffnol is linen available in various grades of weave.
@flyerphil7708 Many thanks. Used to use Tufnol and Paxolin quite a bit 40 odd years ago, when I was still an Engineer in the Merchant Navy. Couldn't for the life of me remember which was which.
I did use some Tufnol to make leaf springs for my Conway steam locomotive. I should have realised by the colour that what I bought for the follow rest was just solid Bakelite.
Regards,
Mark
@@billdoodson4232 I bought 2 x 1M square sheets of 3/8” Tuffnol from a scrap dealer recently, dead cheap but no idea what to do with it yet. He said it was ex Navy.
Would some lube have helped with the stainless?
I was using some Tap Magic but in future I will set up the compound slide to advance the tool at half the thread angle. For the demo, I was just advancing the tool straight in.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, greetings from Iowa, USA! I wonder if you have paper phenolic? I use a lot of it for machine parts. It doesn't show lines like linen or canvas phenolic does, but it's still very tough with similar wear characteristics. I look forward to your videos and usually learn something. Btw, love the rocket lava lamp and table!
Thanks for watching my videos. We have finally finished furnishing the MCM suite. It's sort of understated but a nice little time capsule nonetheless. I think what I bought for the follow rest finger is just Bakelite. You can chip it so I don't think it has any reinforcement. I used to work in a factory during my college training years. They made fishing reels from Bakelite. I remember the red powder coated everything in that part of the factory. They later switched to using a fibreglass resin "dough" that cured in the heated moulds in a few minutes. The fibreglass was tougher than the plain Bakelite but I thought the mottled red and maroon colour of the Bakelite was more attractive.
Regards,
Mark
Maybe you should fabricate some lock to prevent you from disengaging the half nut when cutting metric threads.
You sort of really need it to be able to be released in case of some potential disaster like forgetting to reverse the drive at the end of the cut. As it turns out, you can (if you remember) mark the position of the threading dial and then reengage the half nut at the same point after moving the carriage and it should pick up the thread.
Regards,
Mark
BTW if you need some genuine linen phenolic, let me know.
Do you have some around 16mm thick? I would be keen to get some. I am happy to pay you for it. It's just hard to get in small quantities here in the colonies.
Perhaps email me mark.presling@gmail.com
Regards,
Mark
How come you used the rough face as a reference for the T slot and not the face you levelled off
It didn't really matter where the key went in relation to the machined face. There are almost no specific dimensions on the entire part except for the width and height of the key. However, if you were making a batch of them, you would want consistency and then you would need to offset from the machined face.
Regards,
Mark
Awesome video production/discussion/mentoring/build…ENJOYED!!!!…..hey-“screwyballs”, …..😂😂😂
Thanks Chuck. Yes, the screwy balls worked a treat. Simple and effective.
Regards,
Mark
Hi, it could be the original follow rest was designed to work with the original tool holder which would have probably been nearer to the tips. nice video thank you ATB Mark
I do have the original square tool post that came with my lathe but it has a similar offset to the quick change tool holders. I also have the manuals for the Colchester and it shows the follow rest being used to support a long piece of bar stock being threaded between centres. For those sort of jobs the offset isn't really a problem. It just allows for some support near the cutting tool at a fixed distance during the cut. For small work though the offset becomes and issue.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Thank you for taking the time to reply with a good explanation 👍
Whale brand Tufnol is the stuff I believe.
I find a vacuum to clean chips to be much nocer than pressured air
I have a Shop Vac but it gets clogged very easily especially when there is a lot of long stringy swarf. It is good for cast iron and powdery swarf though.
Regards,
Mark
I don’t know where the ‘rest’ term came from. They are known as a traveling steady or fixed steady in the UK. Useful attachments anyway.
I have heard it called both travelling steady and follow rest. In the original Colchester manual it is called a "travelling steady rest". I think the name "follow rest" was given because the point of support "follows" the tool point.
Regards,
Mark
I thought you were going to put that rest on the left side of your cutter
There is a range of movement via the compound slide so that you can put the tool point either left or right of the support finger. I had the compound set up parallel to the Z axis of the lathe which gives more range but it's not as good as having the compound set over to half the tool tip angle. You still have some adjustment and that is the more conventional way to cut the thread.
Regards,
Mark
If you've making something from scratch, why not just copy a roller box for a Capstan Lathe?
New zealand milling accessory company, eh? That wouldn't be eccentric, would it?
I'm watching this thread closely to see if Mark expresses a response.
No, if you are referring to Eccentric Engineering, he is operating out of Melbourne here in Oz. I will be working with Cliff Hall from Threadexpress or Hallmark Engineering in Wellington.
Regards,
Mark
I have dropped a hint!
Regards,
Mark
Micro threading is inherently difficult.The aspect ratio is almost always greater than 3:1. Well don. Preso.
👍👍😎👍👍