From Milano to the Ligurian Sea with FS Intercity "Giorno"
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Buongiorno!
Welcome to this new trip report, where I will show you what's like to ride the Intercity Giorno down to the Ligurian sea with Trenitalia, I've always wanted to ride this specific trainset for a very particular reason....
Enjoy :-)
- TRIP INFORMATION -
RECORDED IN JUNE 2023
Railway company: Trenitalia
Train type: E414 and UIC-Z coaches
From: Milano Centrale to Ventimiglia
Time: 3h44
Price: 29€ (Bought one month prior departure)
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00:00 : Intro
01:20 : Milano Centrale
01:49 : The IC to Ventimiglia
02:07 : FrecciaMess
02:41 : Italo
03:01 : Weird formation
03:53 : Busy boarding
04:19 : Seat review
04:40 : Boarding
05:08 : Po Valley
05:21 : Ligurian Apennine
06:05 : Mid roll ads
06:38 : Genoa
07:13 : Along the Ligurian sea
08:03 : Walkthrough
08:15 : Toilets Time
09:04 : Walkthrough 2
10:24 : Snack
11:41 : More blue sea
12:04 : San Remo
12:18 : Approaching Ventimiglia
12:35 : Thoughts
12:56 : Outro
Great video, one small note from Italy: the locomotives designed for the ETR500 are actually called E404. These ones you show in the video are part of the first series build (60 locos in total i believe) and they featured just 3 kV DC traction. This used to be fine in the beginning of the ETR500 service (1990s) since the only high speed line open was the Direttissima between Rome and Florence which features that kind of power instead of the usual 25 kV AC. Then with the opening of the Bologna to Milan high speed line and subsequently all the other lines, 25 kV AC power become standard...so a second and third batch of E404s were built, which feature this bi-mode power capability and have a 300 kph top speed instead of 250. Those took over the ETR500 services which eventually became Frecciarossa (funnily enough, the ETR designation is technically incorrect for the 500: ETR usually identifies integrated trainset types, not discrete coaches+locomotives compositions). Those first gen E404 were set aside. Initially, Trenitalia though of converting them to dual mode Italian-French electric traction for cross border services. It was perfectly doable, but SNCF probably was worried about competition and they blocked the project citing safety and technical problems, which were actually kind of made up and non-existent. So after a lot of troubles, these first gen locos were refurbished, they kept with the 3 kV DC power, speed was de-rated to 200 kmh like the coaches they pull. In this instance, they got renamed E414 to underline the difference with the "proper high speed" E404s. At first they pulled Frecciabianca services, and now Intercity.
Funnily enough, the timing of your video is incredible: just today i took one of these E414 hauled Intercity train.
But surely they have 1.5 kV traction also right, because Ventigmiglia is electrified at 1.5 kV, which is probably an anomaly from before the Marseille - Ventimiglia was reëlectrified from 1.5 kV to 25 kV in France.
@JornBor 1.5 kV DC traction on Italian trains isn't really a thing, a proper spec per se. Basically the train that is designed for 3 kV DC also gets certified to run at half the voltage and thus half the power.
It's ideal for short section and occasional movements, just like at Ventimiglia, but it's a proper "main compatibility" thing.
Terzo valico
It's probably fair to say that the entire Mediterranean region is incredibly beautiful. And not just because I happen to live there. 🙂
Have you ever be in the Balkans? 💀
Crumbling socialist-era buildings, the worst road pavement in Europe and 2 meters of weeds and rubbish along the road (and pretty much everywhere else that isn't private property). In addition, everyone is racist, homophobic, sexist and xenophobic (the best thing is that they all hate each other, while Serbs, Croats and Bosnians are roughly the same people and language, only with different religions)
A sidenote, that isn't a Z1 coach, it is a Gran Confort coach (notice the wide gap between the inner and outer glass of the windows, where the curtains used to be, and the patch on the door where a big handle used to be), sadly this particular coach happens to have been revamped but if you catch one with the original interior it is very nice!
A small correction:
Genova Piazza Principe is actually a through station,but as you can probably guess Genova is a important city to serve,so trains stop there and reverse direction towards Ventimiglia
Great video as always! The coach you were on was actually more interesting than a UIC-Z. It is a Gran Confort- the first series were built in 1969 and used for Trans Europe Express services. A second series came in the early 70s. Your one was from the final late 80s batch. You can tell the late batch because they have strips along the roof- the earlier ones have smooth roofs. Amazingly, some of the earliest coaches are still running- you would never tell they are over 50 years old, as they have the standard modern interior now. All the 1st class IC coaches are Gran Comforts. Some of the coaches with the vending machines are either Gran Comfort ex-restaurant cars or converted standard 1st class coaches. There were no second class Gran Comfort coaches made, but some were converted as standard 2nd class during the massive IC901 rebuilding project. They don't seem to be around as much any more, but they only have 9 windows, not 11, so keep an eye out (especially for Gran Confort vending machine coaches with 2/1 second class seats). All the rebuilt UIC-Z coaches are second class (even the ex-1st class ones, with 9 windows)- Finally, there are also Eurofima coaches- they look like UIC-Z, but are older. They have bigger windows in the doors and the roof strips stop higher up on the roof. The E414s were taken off high speed as they can only run on 3000v DC. The newer high speed lines were built to 25kv AC, so the later batches of HS locos were dual voltage. It was quite sensible to reuse the original E414s on the 3000v DC classic lines (they can also run on the Direttissima, which is 3000v DC. Hope this train nerding is useful!
7:20 that line, especially the bit going to La Spezia has a huge history. In a big part of the line due to big waves during winter they had to move the line further from the see. So now if you visit the Cinque Terre and towns around you will see the old railway bridge that now is a barrier from the sea for the city. You can also find rundown tunnels and old station. In the bit from Deiva Marina to Monterosso. Now the old tunnels are some cycle path with also integrated walkways.
Impressive and beautiful landscapes
The Italian intercity is one of the best intercity product in Europe !
All in all nice video !
It's nice to see a busy train, if maybe not as comfortable. What I hate however, is people who can't manage their luggage!
I ❤ these trains
Incredibly beautiful scenery. Thank you Thibault. for a nice review💚😀
I just love this train. Living in Milan and going to the sea near Levanto( a stop of the train going instead towards Livorno ) I use this train a lot. This summer for every weekend it has been full! I think that the route to Livorno is more relevant that the one to Ventimiglia
Yes Trenitalia likes it's sub brands but it itself is a sub brand of Ferrovie dello Stato.Trenitalia is the passenger side of the old FS company and Mercitalia the freight side of FS.Up until about 20 years ago the trains were all run with FS livery.I think that now FS is more of a holding company.
Hey, the night train at Genova looks like the IC from Reggio Calabria to Torino (794)! Great video :)
I always loved the old ETR500s with their big windshields.
Unfortunately my biggest problem with train travel is the fact that most trains aren't big luggage friendly. :/
I like the loc. It looks a bit like a dogs schnautz to me ! 🐶🙂
Hi thibault, the video was really nice but I want to correct you on two points:
1) 200km/h is the maximum speed of the Intercity trains, but it's impossible for them to reach this velocity due to the limits on the italian lines.
2) The brand Frecciabianca has been dropped nearly as 4 years old (with the only exception of the trains ETR460 that are still today called Frecciabianca), and all the engines and the carriages has been used for Intercity services.
Moreover I want to say that I have always watched all yours videos dreaming to ride all those trains one day, and in the next days I will go on Interrail and I will use a lot of them, so it's a dream coming true. Thanks for all the effort do you put in yours videos!
Actually the max speed of intercity coaches is 200 km/h. Intercity trains reach this speed for example between Venice and Padova. Though the max speed reached between Milan and Ventimiglia is 180 km/h between Imperia and Sanremo.
a 200 ci vanno eccome!
Tra Milano e Bologna sulla storica vanno tranquillamente a 200km/h e anche in adriatica in alcune parti ci arrivano, traffico permettendo.
Thanks for this review and particularly the shots of the bicycle storage area as I plan on using this service in October with my bike. As always, great production. Cheers, Tim.
The beautiful sea. Another excellent video in your 'classic' format. Thank you Thibault.
Interesting point about white paint protecting the rails from heating up too much (at 6:00). Maybe that low-tech solution would help in the U.S., where freight railroads make passenger trains slow down in very hot weather.
Greay video. And thank you for showing the bike space
Now they have added a new livery to Trenitalia's day and night intercity buses. However, you are very good, you make very well made videos!!!
That looked almost like a human cattle car, what a busy train! Thanks for sharing, Thibault!
2:30 Note. You still find services of Frecciabianca and Frecciargento trains. For example Rome-Genoa or on the Adriatic coast
Roma Torino as well
Good video!
I want to share some tidbits:
- Intercity services are also run by a E401 single cab locomotive (the deep rehaul of the two cab E402A), with a control car at the other end (more frequent in the Milan-Rome-Naples-Reggio Calabria line), and sometimes by two E402B push-pull locos.
Recently they've gotten for "slower" services (and for sicilian ICs) the "regional services" E464 locomotive, because this was exceeding for the high amount of regional EMUs Trenitalia is ordering and using in its network.
- 5:18 the Novi Ligure to Genova line is actually two lines: the classic one via Busalla for regional and freight trains, and the "Succursale" line for express and night trains.
In the future (in 4/5 years' time) there will be a third line, a high speed one ("Terzo Valico"), to further implement trains in the historical italian industry triangle (Turin, Milan, Genova).
- there used to be a Thello service (cooperated by Trenitalia and SNCF), that you've already reviewed. I heard SNCF had some plans to expand its TGV presence in Italy, with a Milan-Genova-Ventimiglia-Cannes-Nice-Marseille train (effectively doing the same route as the Thello, but with the TGV rolling stock).
- Ventimiglia station is the border station for Trenitalia and SNCF, so it's got dual voltage (3kV DC italian, and 1,5kV DC french), in order to accomodate italian and french trains.
Recently there had been some problems with the recently released Hitachi Rock (double deck EMU made by the former AnsaldoBreda, the same of the Fyra V250 💀), since they weren't planned with the dual voltage, so they have to stop one station earlier. And to think previous gen italian trains (the E464, the E414 and E402B) were planned with the 1,5kV voltage mode (both for future plans of operation in France, via the Fréjus tunnel, and for emergency reasons, when the train doesn't work properly)...
Looks like an alright train but definitely one that needs to run more frequently. Like possibly once per hour even just from looking at those crowd levels.
But it looks alright, ammenities look like they're gonna be on par with what DSB are getting on their new trains back home in Denmark which will run at the same max speed and on routes of a similar length.
12:50 unfortunately Trenitalia can’t add more trains because of the line capacity. The line is one of the most busy in Italy with various regional trains, intercity trains, freccie trains and freight trains. And they can’t double the line for obvious reasons. They just don’t have the space for more trains
I love InterCity trains as they are comfy and pass on routes with great views and are quite affordable.
Genova Piazza Principe has some dead end platforms but is a through station, yet the train requires to reverse if arriving from Milan, as going through in the same direction it will be towards the East Ligurian Coast
Bravo for the video!
Keep up the great work👍👍👍
Muy lindo viaje !! Congrat ragazzi!!👏👏!!
Great video. Glad you passed in my city Loano 💪
Your videos are my favourite way to start the weekend
Oh yeah. The intercity. The king of square wheels
Great trip. That was unique train consists.
That lack of luggage storage could be dangerous in an emergency.
Bom dia simplys trem lindo trem bom trabalho ai
I see level boarding is still a pipe dream at Milano ... some years ago on the service Chambery - Milano (from Paris) one pasenger found the step down off the train was so steep they nearly fell off whilst alighting!
Italy is such a fabulous country in Europe and they do have the best trains. Can you still get a high speed train that goes to Monaco from France and Italy.
Thanks for the ride. 🇺🇾
SO BEAUTIFUL 😍😍😍😍😍
I did that journey in 1976 whilst serving in the British army of the Rhine. Then it was corridor coaches which got annoying as two attractive Italian girls came into our compartment which then led to a succession of Italian boy romeos trying their luck.. as neither me or my mate could speak Italian it was a non starter for us lol. The fun started when we got to ventamelia, we had a cpl of hours before our train left for nice so we went for a walk down to the beach, the town them was a bit run down but the main problem arose as we headed to the beach on quite a wide pavement, walking toward a us where 5 young m en walking shoulder to shoulder pushing everyone off onto the road including quite a few elderly. I looked. at. My mate a black belt in judo he nodded yeah let’s so we just piled into them knocking two on their asses and stopped to see their reaction. Our trip down from Cologne had been a long one with little sleep so we where in the mood for a ruck.. the reluctant heroes walked away but followed us at a distance until we got back to the starvation where we “rescued” a young Australian backpacker from yet another very annoyingly persistent admirer. We stayed with her until her train arrived then made our way to our platform, we searched. Everywhere for a passport control but. Couldn’t find one so just went to the platform for our nice train.. next thing some Italian police idiot is waving his pistol at us, I don’t react well to having a gun pointed at Me so told him either holster it or I will shove it up your arse. He decided on the former then pushed us down numerous corridors until we arrived at a unmarked hatch,, which turned out to be the passport control though how you ever know was beyond me, he gave a cursory glance at our passports before waving us on. Thankfully we just made our train because if we had missed it I would have gladly walked to France,,, all in al it was awful sampling of Italian railways and some of its inhabitants. Our week in Cannes was a paradise in comparison
It seems that this train is a bit cramped inside
Good video!
Decent train, too bad there's no staffed bar or dining car, but that's modern railways, I suppose. I'm also a bit torn on the new line along the Ligurian Coast, I understand that it really speeds up things, and increases the capacity from the sinuous single-track line to the current double-track line in tunnel, but I do miss the easy access to quite a few smaller cities along the way.
BTW, while there are only 5 Intercities a day, there are luckily quite a bit more travel possibilities on this line, mostly with only 1 to 2 changes, and not that much slower on Regional trains.
Very strongly agree. I agree that the capacity increase is needed for the demand nowadays, but I don't see why they didn't also keep the historic alignment in use. They could have continued only regional service on it, or turned it into some light rail construction to keep the smaller towns connected. The upgrade of the line now feels like a downgrade for most of those towns, which is really sad.
@@JornBor well, the old line was occupying quite valuable real eastate, the hilly and rocky nature of the Ligurian cast makes it that everything is very tight together. Having a little more space to expand a road to a whopping 2 lanes can be very useful. A lot of the old line was also reconverted into a nice bike/walking path, so it's not entirely gone. But as you said, it's at the cost of their rail access.
I like it.
Muy buena edición de vídeo.
😁 Sigan con el buen trabajo.
Posdata: Quizás puedas agregar subtitulos en Español, así tendrías mas visitas en los videos. 🤑
as an italian, i never went into an intericity with working AC or Bathroom facilities, even lights some times.
Also, we just got some new hybdrid regional trains, might give it a try?
We rode this train earlier this year and my main complaint is the lack of luggage racks in each carriage. As a result, people just parked their luggage in the center aisle.
Other than the views, this experience is similar to the UK. Trenitalia have learnt a lot from their time in the UK. Overcrowded, infrequent trains with very little luggage storage and no functioning toilet.
Bet there's a risk of station delay if the bike nearest the window needs to come out - especially if the owners of the others aren't close. Recently was subject to an 8 minute delay on an EMR service in England when two bikes without reservations had to be removed to allow one with a reservation to get on.
7:04 ayy fellow zelda enjoyer
Trevor - Supari Talao (residence).
Fascinating, but luggage blocking aisle ways, how safe would that be in an emergency?
Thanks for video, very informative. Just one question when the train changes direction in Genova does that mean that you will be on the opposite side in direction of travel? So if you want to see the sea views you should book on right side of train leaving Milan?. Thanks.
Why are there so many youtube train trip videos that all have the exact same format but are different people?
How was the pressure on the ear drums? I can see a sucked in water bottle at5.30 . It looks like the effect of tunnel pressure waves.
Everyplace is crowded in the summer.
From my extended family and some DNA testing, My Mother's side came from the Po, Italy area.
A question, when you have a 2 engine set like this, do both engines run while the train is moving?
The sea views and towns remind me so much of Valpariso, Vina Del Mar & La Serena, Chile!
Yes, they both run, the engineer sits in the front one and his commands are sent to the back engine too, this gives the train double the thrust and allows it to backtrack without needing to move the locomotive.
i hope you come check the Portuguese trains
Have cruise ships and oil freighters polluted the Mediterranean beyond repair?
8:55
You just need ang...PASSION to get water.
At least the ristretto helped the feeling of being that Sardine packed tightly into a small Tin . I myself wouldn’t have enjoyed that experience engendering claustrophobic sensations. 👍🏻🏴🇫🇷
Do they even have overhead luggage storage or they have to add a baggage car😅
It's me or the E414 really looks closely similar to the ICE1 engines?
Is it like dry ice on the tracks in Italy? 5:51
The prices too must b phenomenal, right.
Prices are €33.50 in 2nd class without any reduction for an almost 4 hr-long journey, that's not bad. If booked in advance, you can find tickets for as low as €9.90 for a Super Economy ticket. 1st class tickets sell from €17.90, full-price is still only €44...
What did they do with the old coaches???
Very nice 🥰🥰👋👋👍👍👍👌👌👌 THANK YOU VIDEO BYE
Ca reprend, coté Italie, le service Thello, non ? La SNCF, elle met quoi en correspondance ? Des Z23500 ?
Regio2N :-)
I think Europe must b in a small way looking like Paradise (Firdaus).
There is lot of room for luggage on traditional coaches like that (uic-z/gran confort/eurofima…) but often people is too lazy and selfish to put the luggage where they belong i.e. above their heads and in the shelves at coach ends so they leave their stuff in the aisle.
Hello, I’ve my wife and I have been thinking about taking an Amtrak train on a over night trip, but the Roometes are more expensive than I thought. I’ve been watching your channel for 2 years and especially enjoy your videos on your Amtrak trips. Do you have any advice on how to make this trip a little less expensive?
Hey, I take Amtrak a bunch and I might be able to help. Some basic strategy that helps is booking at least a few months ahead, and intentionally going for off seasons - prices are dynamic, and time until departure date, train fullness, and season are the three main contributors to the prices. Also, on some trains, like the Empire Builder or Sunset Limited that split into two at some point on the trip, there might be two identical listings for different prices. Look them over, sometimes one is actually just cheaper and identical!
Also, less immediately helpful, but Amtrak has a pretty solid rewards program. I've been able to do multiple sleeper trips just on rewards points, but not more than a few a year.
Thanks!
don't forget, roomettes include the meals served on board (breakfast, lunch and dinner). While the service is not what it used to be, especially East of the Mississippi, that's still quite good value. And of course, @sgt.eclair's tips are solid.
Thanks
I always wondered why FS doesn't use Pendolinos for IC service on this particular line, which in most of the stretches is very curved. They would shave off considerable amount of travel time.
all Trenitalia’s Pendolinos have their tilting system deactivated because of high maintenance costs, also the signal “Rango P” that allowed tilting trains to reach a higher speed on traditional lines is no longer present
Thank you for this information. Sounds like another victim of "snellamento", as they prove to be very useful with active tilting mechanism elsewhere (GB, Portugal, Finland, Czechia, even Slovenia).@@davidesacco601
@@davidesacco601 anche i 600 lo hanno disattivato?
@@il_dalla si purtroppo
If this guy complained about space on those coaches I can’t imagine what he would think if he travelled on pendolino!
Stations in Europe(a) shd HV Frescos. What say?
Didn't look handicapped accessable?
nice route, but I find its first class more 2nd class alas
I always wonder about the cheap prices you show here. You should do more critics to the train services. My latest experiences Milan, Frankfurt, Paris are around the 150 to 300 dollars in over crowded trains. You should show also the problems... I love trains, but I certainly see why the service is still far from being friendly enough
Can you call this train a high speed train, not even averaging 100 km/h? But props on Trenitalia for the ride quality and the scenery!
Intercity isn’t highspeed by definition, it’s highER speed, italy’s highspeed trains are Frecciarossa and Italo, which mostly run on dedicated highspeed lines.
A bit cramped. I would probably rent a car and drive the route or maybe a bus if they are spacious at all
I’d say that’s just poor planning, italy is a mess everywhere in summer, from june to September the highways clog up, the trains get delayed, and airports shut down, basically everyone goes to vacation in the span of a few weeks, if you also take into account the litteral millions of foreign tourists that visit Italy each year you can get an idea of the situation, the best thing to do is to reserve in advance and to get a train/ get on the road during the week or at odd times.
@daves9172 You are right about that!
Doesn't look terribly cramped to me, especially if you're in a solo seat. Definitely better than a bus by a mile, though
thank you for the train report , i will took the vintimille-to milan in november cant wait to use them after 3 year of covid :) the last time i took nice to milan with thello :(
I m italian but “italian traks are painted white to reduce heat absorption “ shocked me! 😂😮😮😮
2026 ,a new gallery HSR MILAN GENOVA