Cement for metal casting?
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- Опубликовано: 23 апр 2017
- I was looking for different molding sand recipes and I found one that I wanted to try out. The molding sand consists from cement and synthetic engine oil (other oils might work to). For 10 kg cement I used 1.3l oil.
The surface finish on the casting from the cement was smoother and it didn't have pitting on the surface.
What I didn't like was the molding process was trickier and it produced nasty smoke. I don’t see using it that often, not until I have a fume hood.
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By The Croft by Joakim Karud / joakimkarud
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Hi MP Dragon.. Professionally made investment material is gypsum (plaster) based. It also has quartz and cristobalite for temperature resistance... If you cast metals below 1100c you can use jewelry investment..it is cheap enough and gives a really smooth casting surface...if you cast higher temps ( greater than 1200c, eg. Iron)you can mix in extra quartz or sand to the mix as plaster breaks down at those temps...the best advice for making your own investment is copy the recipe of professional investments..they all tell you what they contain, they don't tell you the ratios but you can find that out. If you use the lost wax technique with these investments the quality of the casting and surface finish is so far ahead of sand casting it is unbelievable..
cement and motor oil sand is used for many years for silversmith sand casting traditionally here in Iran. the perfect ratio (in volume) is 1 oil to 5 cement, don't forget the sieve two or three times the cement before mixing. mix them slowly and gently just by hand for couple of minutes. you can use it over and over again without any problem.
I really appreciate your using sodium silicate and sand as a molding media. Its an old , time and tried recipe, you can do so much with it, cores too good luck and carry on
I was told over 30 years ago that silver jewelry craftsman in the south west US used cement powder and used motor oil. I assumed it was because it was available, but the finish is smooth.
Great attempt, interesting outcome. Thanks!
I don't give af about the smoke or how difficult it is, that cement casting was better looking than greensand. once I find the right consistency, I'm using that for all my castings from now on.
nice video, never thought or heard of this method, thanks
Bro, gratz on ur content, the music now its just perfect and ur vlog channel rocks too. The best of luck for all ur projects, will keep on waiting for ur videos. Cheers from argentina
i really liked the editing on this video!
Much better yes
I have used this method, If you are going to do it, you need a lot of ventilation if you dont want shrinkage.. Cuz apparently, cement doesn't ventilate at all..
Other then that after 3rd pour I got good results, I needed precise dimension, and it worked quite well.
Thank you A lot, Spasiba borsoi..
Thanks for the video
Love it this idea, here in brazil is hard find comercial green sand and we use kitty sand with como river sand to do our molds
Amigo , procure a cadiminas em contagem
From my understanding, adding ethanol, methanol or isopropyl alcohol to the cement mixture would work as a catalyzer to stiffen the material. And 2 stroke engine oil would create much less smoke and odor. I will try it soon because until now I was using only green sand (water based).
Hey I know this comment was a long time ago, but I’m down the rabbit hole and was wondering if you ever tested your theory. Did it work?
i think what made the mold smoother was particle size, if you grounded the sand so it was a powder with very small particle size you would get the same results.
I have been looking how to make a ball mill so I can get fine sand
you dont need a mill, just get some screen and do the screening in 2 steps. there will be enough fine grit over there. just make sure the sand is 100% dry otherwise you never gonna finish it. i can not tell the specific number, 1st is a rough screening, second is for the finest. so its 2 different grits for the screens. Its also depends on you what size you like, but the the 2 step is useful if you want to make more than just 10 litres.
There is an another good source of a very good material, those guys who working with ceramic tiles or granite and they cut the tiles, they have a lot of very fine powder (mostly soaking in water, but never mind) More than likely they will give it to you free.
Cool, curious of a few things. First what green sand do you uses/prefer , i have seen people using fine sand with oil mixed in , some with playsand mixed with kitty litter...etc. Or do you just uses Aluminum oxide sandblasting sand...? Would like to see a video of going thru all the different types of sandcasting materials that work and rating there quality. As there is so many options of making your own sandcasting sands out there. I am like stuck in figuring out which one to choose and don't have the ability or resources to try them all currently. I would imagine most feel similar that they just like to know how to make the best green sand or the best options to go with. (And not be let down by all the hack based mixtures that are hard to work with and/or not good results with them)
finely ground (for detail around object) Bentonite clay (some of the cheapest cat litter) and a small amount of sodium sylicate works better than both the sand and the portland cement. Smokeless too! What gas(s) is/are being used for that simple furnace?
This guy doesnt blink
cool vid
I'll be using this same method to cast some aluminium parts, cuz it's all I got at home, and i wantid fast and cheap heh :) thanks for instructions
Nice science study.
Looked for this video specifically because you referenced it in the first video I watched of yours. LOVE the result you get. Full synthetic is a bit pricey, though. Do you suppose a synthetic blend would be just as good? Or even conventional?
Also -- you said in a comment that you are using the same crucible now as you were when you started casting. What is it, where did you get it, and can you do a video on care and cleaning of your crucible?
I have heard of cement being used as facing sand before but never tried it because you will end up eventually with hard cement lumps in your greensand.
Hello and thank you for your video share.
Would it be possible to use a cement mixture as a permanent mould ie refactory cement used for pizza oven ?
please make a video on the preferred type of sand you use for casting
very cool,
informative 👍😎👍
From what i see cement casting yields pretty good results but is it a one shot mold or multiple casts ? Also does the cement based cast harden up or is it still recyclable / reusable like the traditional bentonite clay based green sand (aka just have to throw away the burnt bentonite clay part. Jewelry makers uses this method of sand casting with bentonite clay based sands. There sands just look more redish /brown probably from the type of bentonite clay used. Maybe a terracotta type or a earthware type...
It is recyclable cement doesn't not bond with oil. The oil just make the cement more shapeable and fly less
I’m wondering if you wet the concrete after you make the form will it be a permanent reusable mold
Make more video Pls I like your videos .D
can you try to pour molten aluminum on water hardened cement mold ? please want to know what will happen
Nice. I wonder how well tile grout would work
Hello you should try adding sand to strengthen the mix :)
i think you used too much oil try doing it with less, thats probably why it kept sticking to the other half of the mold and why it produced that much smoke
Oil can also be expensive i use bought sand rady to go for my videos...
use used engine oil
make sure you filter it first though
I am going to start metal casting soon, and this comment caught my attention. Have you actually done this with used oil, and how did it turn out?
I use used engine oil I buy it for 10 center a liter so 5 liter is 50 cents.
Could you tell me what the liquid is in the sand?
Hi, Best Regards from Germany,
Could you please explain what is "sodium silicate" ?
You get it as fluid ?
It is difficult to "harden" it with "CO2".
How much sand and how much fluid you mix together.
best Regards
Per
I buy it at the hardware store and it is written that it is a additive for concrete or as a glue. when adding co2 it hardens immediately. I mix it by eye and harden a sample in my hand with co2 if it is crumbling I add more sodium silicate, if it is to wet I add more sand
Do you know of any better casting materials?
Is hardenned cement can be used?
Can we use any type of oil?
I bet the difference in quality is due to the granular size difference between concrete and sand. If you could find a super fine grain sand, it might give you the same quality without the oil smoke.
Does the cement mold can using more times or one time?
would a weak sand and cement mix work?
Can make permanent mold/cast from cement ?????
MP Dragon are you from Latvia?
Regular sand vs concrete. Its so hard to decide which ones better
Why not use normal greensand? or are you just testing concrete and oil vs sodium silicate and sand.
I was just curious
What is that white white colour powder?
What mix do you normally use? does anyone know?
Interesting
can we,use this,again and store for future use
What kind of metal are you using?
I think there is too much oil on the mix! Great vids like it alot!
I think you should do the opposite first pour the oil and then pour into its slowly the cement. that way you will not have that much dust and you will not have that much problem because it will be absorbed into the oil and I think the system is good maybe you should try to improve it but it does look to me like a very good way
The other point is why not use oil based mold on one part of the mold, for details, and water based mold on the other side, for easy degassing? Water based is less dense and lets vapors go out easily.
Run taracatta pots in ball mill untiil its a powder mix with mineral oil.
Next we will be mixing uranium dust to cast our next project. Breakfast bowls. 😅
Hey im here
Nice! I have one question,what do you think about useing used motoroil ? As you may know motoroil is preaty expensive and i dont really have much money to use
I think used oil would work, basically it is the same oil
Thanks a lot!
Thanks for the advice!
make sure you filter it first, and don't use any oil that has gotten other fluids into it.
I use Rural king Brand play sand which is more fine than most.
Hi MP Dragon, an interesting video, well worth the experimentation time, but I agree with your conclusion, too messy and smokey. I do have a suggestion, try a combination experiment using cement and sodium silicate as we know the sodium silicate method is much cleaner, so we may end up with the best of both worlds. You could also check out bagged "Builder's Sand" as that has a much higher [finer] mesh number than "play sand". I have also been thinking about "brickies sand" for use in greensand casting as that already has the approximately correct sand percentage of clay in it. Mark
can you use old oil?
Nuclear_ Nube no you use a extremely high temp oil not that a typical car would use
why did you not put the stuff you use for the sand in the cement? also i love your videos a lot!
tim kors pretty sure the stuff he puts in freezes the sand so it gets hard
4x4convoy yeah but he needs to try to mix that stuff with the cement maybe it will work?
No. I think the gas is CO2, atleast thats something that some people use. That will not harden motoroil.
oh i mean mixing the sodium silicate with cement and then use Co2 to harden it if possible
tim kors ahh now I get it! yeah that actually sounds pretty reasonable!
Time to experiment with combos?
wasn't it because you mixed it with oil?
It would be great, if you make vids more often.
Watch his vlog channel. It's just as good
Tazer He's busy with fixing his workshop and cant upload as much right now.
whats his vlog channel name ?
The Ferrarist mp dragon vlog
next time do a small sample then you can be sure of the amount need to be used on a larger scale
the flask looked too large in area for the depth of drag and cope. the oiled cement dust couldn't support its own weight at that depth. my 2 cents
Hey bro, What kind of cement did u use for the casting ?
have you tried soldum silicate with cement yet
the divverence in surface between the sand and the cement could allso be caused by the sand being courser
using the sodium silicate should make the cement vehave somewat the same way as the sand with the smoother casting without the smoke the oil gives off
Hi cement powder will absorb water over time not what you want in a mould.
Barry Mayson Not real as cement is almost soaked in oil but u just need to re-oil it more often .
Interesting.....Instead of synthetic motor oil, I would try cheap vegetable or peanut oil. 1/10 the cost of synthetic motor oil. This could be a great alternative to petrobond or greensand.
Any type of oil will work just be careful with the mix ratio
Why did it keep breaking up
can i use cooking oil
i think every oil ;)
Try making an aluminum flail.
What ration of sand and sodium silicate do you use? I use Bentonite and sand at at ratio of 9-1 then add water until desired consistency is achieved to hold together. Bentonite if what clumping cat litter is made from, so I just use a bag of it and pulverise it in to dust, very cheep and cost effective as you can re use over and over just by adding water
I made that recipe when I started metal casing, but when you get to patterns as big as I make it becomes very difficult to make the mold. I mix it by eye and harden a sample in my hand with co2 if it is crumbling I add more sodium silicate, if it is to wet I add more sand
Story of my life
I would stick with the sand and sodium silicate mixture
Why don't U use water
carbón, arena y agua ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
sodium selicate is the same as table salt ?
sodium chloride is table salt
I half expected the cement to explode
Seems like a lot more trouble for very little gain.
cara faz uma forma de fazer chumbos para espingarda.
hello
helli
Русский ? Акцент уж сильно явный)) Или специально для антуража произношение ломаешь?
9th
Hey MP Dragon i like your videos, do you want to feature channels with my channel?
first
onethousandandninetythird
seems pretty sketch
Popracuj nad angielskim,jest nieźle..formy do dupy..weź się może za uprawę kapusty
Please cut the bad music!
Humans are incredibly good at ignoring history and the experience gathered by previous generations.
There's a bunch of very good reasons why the casting industry has settled on green sand as material of choice. And they've only been doing this for a couple of hundred years....
Perhaps you should get a good book about casting and read up on why they do what they do.
Maybe this guy is just experimenting for fun
You are right but then synthetic oil was not available.. Maybe it is worth trying
Read the description please
Yes, but there's always room for improvement and experimentation is the key to invention, so...
We need to see as well how something fails.