for us civilians why get hung up on a VO2 max calculation.... just run 12 mins and establish a baseline .... train ... and periodically run that 12 minute test again.... ran 10% further? You've improved your VO2 max! I think all of this technology (or lack thereof) sometimes just gets in the way of getting started. Love your stuff Dr. Rhonda Patrick...
@@geometerfpv2804 and perhaps this is the point - first start, and when you get used to the practice itself, you can dive into the tech details for fun/added challenges.
i just wanted to train just a little smarter with zone2 training , and i got trapped in the rabbit hole of how to find my true zone 2... ah fudge it i just wanna run
My V02 when i started running 8 months ago was a 42. Yesterday's was a 54. I think that is solid for 45 years old concerning how new I am. Ive been watching your videos on the reg. Thanks for the help.
I love that you put the “80/20” rule of thumb into context. Lots of recreational runners abide by that because that’s what the professional marathon runners do, but for most people not managing massive mileage and targeting shorter distances, around half at faster paces moves the needle best. 1km repeats feel the most satisfying to me and they roughly line up with the Norwegian 4x4 protocol! I do 5 of them to target the 5km, though.
Yes !! I always explain why it's not a good idea to apply this 80/20 rule to recreationnal runners or cyclists. Even for a lot of competitors runners who are training 4, 5 or 6 time a week. 80/20 rule is good for athlètes who train 8, 10 or 12 times a week, with few rest between each session.
Anything high intensity needs adequate warm up, especially as a person gets older. So you don't end up saving all that much time. Also, HIT is unsuitable for people that are new to regular physical activity. You have to develope an aerobic base first. Most people need to walk a couple thousand steps extra regularly for a couple of months first, before they touch HIT.
1k repeats are great! More manageable than mile repeats which I love, too. But I sometimes got suck/ flu in the winter with me repeats of 5 minutes. 3 miles each workout.
@@erwanlecorre7613 Yet Petter Attia who Rhonda often brings up and who is not an elite athlete is doing tuesday, thursday, saturday in zone 2 and sunday in zone that is close to vo2 max. I guess do the thing that makes you stick to it
Oh goodness - “the guidelines” of 2.5 hours per week not responding IS the problem. It’s not enough. A lot of folks advocating for “high volume, low heart rate training” talk about needing to put in around 10+ hours per week, and the Norwegian Olympians leveraging a lot of this low intensity training to win gold medals in triathlon / set Ironman records see almost linear increases all the way up to 30+ hours per week. The other problem is you need to stay below lactate threshold turning points while doing this type of training, which means you regularly have to test your lactate levels as you train. HIIT protocols get you some short-term bumps in VO2 max sooner, but they plateau and take a disproportionate amount of time to recover from. The Norwegians crushing endurance sports are doing the bulk of their training in the low intensity. Folks saying the reason why non-responders didn’t respond “isn’t understood” haven’t done their research. The Norwegians are doing a LOT more than just some HIIT protocols, lol.
You nailed it, this is pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. I’ll add, the assumption she makes that someone should add more high intensity training to boost VO2 is based off of singular short term studies where a significant increase was noted in a 6-8 week span. She should look at the aerobic performance stagnation that always occurs when intensity is emphasized over a high volume of aerobic training. She should look for a study that shows the steady VO2 max increase from someone who trains zone 1-2 endurance 6-8 hours every week for a decade.
The average Joe doesn’t have hours and hours a week to give to low intensity cardio bud, not everyone out here trying to win gold medals either. She is referring to those who want the biggest bang for buck, for those who don’t have much time and work full time jobs with families, and want to improve their health outcomes as greatly as possible with the least time invested. In that case HIIT training is way more efficient than committing to hours upon hours of mind numbing low intensity cardio.
@@Halloum_ - No one’s forcing you to workout if you don’t have the time. But if you don’t understand why “HIGH VOLUME, low heart rate” zone 2 training isn’t working or “not understood”… it’s probably because you missed the high volume part, lol, as evident by only doing 2.5 hours. It’s like going on a low carb diet and only lowering your carb intake by a few grams, and then telling people it didn’t work. The research presented here is missing a big part of the picture… that research elsewhere understands more clearly and has presented in a more balanced way. People can do whatever they like with it… but should at least be informed that 2.5 hours per week isn’t high volume, low heart rate training.
I started tracking my VO2 in May of 2022 and I was at 32.2 at 46 years old. I did a regimen of walking and elliptical almost everyday and now my VO2 is at 40.2.
I did the 12 minute test and used one of the on-line Cooper calculators, which gave me a VO2Max of 31. My Garmin watch gives me a VO2 Max of 38. I'm 85, first started running when Cooper published his Aerobics book.
Good call. Apple Watch (I have had every model, from the 7 to now the Ultra) produces data that is straight up, downright WRONG all of the time and its V02 max estimates shown in Apple Health are not any better. I've been wearing these AND my GARMIN running watches (one on either wrist, I know, don't care what people think...let them think away) since I read a study on V02 max and longevity some 15 years ago, and the study participants were given these same Garmin devices to obtain accurate measurements. Polar is another brand that's comparable and used in studies, but VO2 Max per Apple Health / Apple Watch is a JOKE. GARMIN is far better and uses the Cooperman Institute's methodology.
These podcasts are a fantastic way to promote good / improving health / fitness Explained in a clear and unpatronising way - motivational for everyone concerned with fitness / health improvement . Well done to all involved ……..
Thank you for this vidéo. I live in France and I am fitness instructor and coach. I coach a lot of different people. Some for fitness and health, some for performance and compétition (running, cycling and inline speedskating), from 13 to 75 years old. I spend a lot of time explaining why it's not good to apply the 80/20 rule to every one. Just because you can't compare people who are training 2 or 3 hours à week with high level athletes who are traning 15, 20 hours a week or more with consequently less time to rest between training sessions. For me high intensity is the key. For performance and also for health. For age people or beginners, high intensity seems to be zone 3 or top of zone 2, but you need to push your limits at least a few minutes every week.
I think you hit it right about high intensity. Back when I was still running (ten years ago, then age 58) I always ran the same way -- alternate days, 3-5 miles at about a 7-minute pace. If I hadn't been running for awhile, I'd run shorter but not slower. In an occasional race, I'd aim at under 20 minutes for a 5K, under 40 minutes for 10K. My last 10K, at age 52, I ran under 39 minutes. My sole marathon, at age 43, I ran at 3:28 (hit the 'wall' at 20 miles thanks to my low-mileage routine). At the time, I had a lab-tested VO2max of 62. I now cycle instead of running. According to Garmin, my currrent VO2max is 50. Can't outrun age, I guess. As far as zones go, on yesterday's cycle I averaged over 140 bpm for the first 40 minutes (a lot of uphill). I figure that's the sweet spot for me as I hope to improve my fitness, which wouldn't happen if I stuck to zone 2 or 3. Interestingly, Garmin says I need more low aerobic, less high aerobic. I'll stick with my routine. It seems to be working and takes less time. BTW, I'm not and never had been more than a 'recreational' athlete.
When I was training for a nationals cycling road race in 1988 I was measured at 77. No longer racing but I'm still doing local training rides. While they are increasingly getting more difficult for me, I'm still at a very high level of fitness compared to most everyone else my age. Never give up.
I am 66, and my Vo2max is in the top 2%. I have 3 disciplines: biking, yoga/Pilates, and sport climbing and I typically do10-12 weekly activities. Group bike rides are basically races. Hot Pilates or Yoga is a physical trial and I frequently approach climbing as a HIIT activity. I encounter participants in all of these activities who exhibit poor body conditioning in all these sports. They are frequently pretty overweight, and the reason is a lack of intensity. That said, whatever you do, it must be fun and a very big part of the fun for me is the competition and social interaction. My advice is that if you are not getting the improvements you want to improve conditioning, you should increase your intensity by adding a new activity or joining a group approaching their discipline with intensity at a level that you can do yet still challenges you (bike club rides are typically rated A,B,C,D). Meetup is a good source for these. As an aside, the groups that are hiking, such as the Capital Hiking Club in DC, move very quickly and the hill climbs are HIIT.
I ride my bike at least 10 hours a week. I go HIIT on that when the conditions are good, which is often. I feel like my max has improved greatly since doing this.
When my Apple Watch first started calculating and recording this, I was racing bikes & riding 4-6 days per week. I was in the high 50s, following a crash. I don’t have data from before, but I’m sure it was 60s. I didn’t know the data was in my health app. Later, mid-pandemic, I discovered the trend line in my phone and it was so scary. I’m an RN and I managed 48 C19 beds, so I had an 80-100hr work week for a year. It dropped to 35. I’ve since left the hospital environment, moved closer to trails again, resumed training… currently 43. I have a ways to go, but at least now I can SEE how my life events/choices affect my output in a very clinical way.
Makes sense. Read years ago in the lore of running that vo2max maxes out in 6 month of proper training and gets lost just as fast. I track all my data and can confirm it works like this for me. My Vo2max goes down to 35 after a year of no exercises and takes me 6 month to go to 60 with very disciplined training.
Yeah, people need to understand that most programs and method they read on internet are for athletes with huge training volumes to improves their already high level of fitness
Im so encouraged to hear this. 5 years ago i was average as a male at 45 i had a vo2 of 38 average or below. Today at 50 i run a VO2 of 48-49 very good for men my age. Im working to achieve a 51 or better.
@@bobwilliams9061 I don't know how you do it. I started running just as far as my body and brain would allow. Every day I forced myself to go further. After 21 days I went from 1 1/2 miles to 5 plus miles. 40 days every single day except Saturday. I can honestly say this. It saved my life.
@@bobwilliams9061 It's all about the brain. It wants you to feel comfortable. If you're ok bucking the brain you're in a fabulous place from what you said. Andrew Huberman which is how I found this page has a great neurological study on this that's about a hour but worth it
I used to train only in zone 4/5 for few years, this year I added zone 2 and lowered my high intensity work out and never had such a high vo2max.. I’m 43 years old and currently vo2max of 61
I dont know exactly how to determine vo2 max ? shorter intense run tends to give higher vo2 max. but longer intense or even sub intense run gives low vo2 max.
Rhonda, have a look into descending ladder V02 intervals. Based on recent testing, they are the best version of V02 intervals. They are easier mentally and provide more time in zone, which is the ultimate goal. An example would be 1x4m 2x3m 2x2m 4x1m. That's 18min in zone. Use equal 1:1 rest for the 4min and 3min intervals, then do 1:2 rest (50%) time for the 2min and 1min intervals. As you fatigue the intervals get shorter. Most people are able to perform higher quality work with this protocol. More importantly, a majority of athletes get higher quality time in zone with this protocol. Give them a try. Also, don't be afraid to extend or shorten rest intervals as you go. Every athlete is different, even from day to day. The ultimate goal is time in zone. Taking an extra minute of recovery is better than bailing on the final intervals.
@@hikerJohn Maximum aerobic speed +/- 5%. You have to spend as much time as possible in that zone to improve your VO2max. It will indeed imply zone 5 heart rate. Low zone 5 in the first rep, and close to max heart rate in the last one. as far as running goes, VO2 Max = 3.5 x Maximum aerobic speed.
@@bradbitt8007 I think you meant "maximal" . . . I do that now but just not as often as I would if I were younger. It's hard on the body and I need longer recovery now at 69 years old and I recover by either doing easy cross training or just long easy hikes. I have an "elite" vo2max but it came down to 41 from 50 after having the flue and then a lingering cough for two months. I got it on Halloween but when I hit my Max HR I start "wheezing" but I only took a total of 5 full days off from that cold or flu. Maybe I wont wheeze next time but it's gotten harder to even hit that maxHR running up that hill.
I dont think you have to chase the MHR, that might be too extreme. Science have shown that training at roughly 90% of your vo2max is most efficient for stimulation leading to adaptation while keeping recovery reasonable. Good bang for buck essentially. Its not strictly 90%, 93 or 95 is good but getting closer to tjat 100% increases recovery time.
@@TomSM5 Nice, Thanks for posting. Knowing this is good because we are more likely to do it. I try to hit 95% jogging up 5-6 hills on my 10 mile hikes. I did a 20 mile "easy" hike yesterday and tagged 90% a few times and was happy at how easy it was.
What if you do heavy resistance training plus a lot of zone 2 cardio, are you really missing out on anything by not doing HIIT too? I wonder because the heavy weightlifting sets get my heart rate up into max sprint territory anyways, so why do sprints again separately?
I went from a VO2 of 34 to 51 in a couple months training for a half marathon with no outside help or sources. Just listened to my body and went out for a run 5 days a week. My heart rate would go over 200 during some sessions but I found the most beneficial was running at a heart rate of 185BPM for 15-30 minutes, then the next day do an easy run.
Great video. Cyclists that use Zone 2 typically train anywhere from 25 to 40 hours per week. You can't train in zone 5 for 40 hours per week. So one can understand why the 80:20 rule becomes important at this level of volume.
15-25 hrs is more accurate for elite pros. 9-15 hrs/wk is realistic for most serious cyclists with full time regular jobs. 25-40 hrs/wk is highly unusual, even among serious athletes.
Can you please explain how I can reconcile Peter Attia’s recommendation of spending 80% of our time in Zone 2 and your comment about 50% of our workout time doing HIIT. Thank you!
After doing zone 2 training for a year, I performed to Rockport walking test with poor results. I'm glad this info was shared and I that I need to improve my training. Just wish I had this information earlier.
Did you ALSO do zone 3, 4 and 5 training? If not THAT is your problem not that fact you were doing zone 2 training. And just what HR rang are you using for zone 2? How many hours? Who was coaching you? You need to have an 80/20 type of training. I'm 70 years old and only using 80/20 for two years and I just did a 30 mile hike on trails with over 3000 feet of elevation gain in 9 hours but you have to occasionally RUN up those hills in training to raise your aerobic threshold. When I'm running up hills it's only for an hour or less and when I'm doing zone 2 it's for 3-6 hours three times a week or 60 miles a week. I also add in Mountain trails and burn 7000+ calories on a day hike. I've never even been an athlete in my life but owned a construction company. Elite athletes train like this for YEARS and they do well over 100 miles a week. (Molly Seidel for example). If you still have aerobic deficiency watch the RUclips video "The Physiology Of Endurance" (two parts) posted 10 months ago on the channel "Evokeendurance"
I alternated zone2 (at 70% MHR) for a hour on a recumbent bike with walking for 2 miles on the other days. I would say my walking put me in zone3. It's really painful to run up hills or stairs. Looks like I need to devote more time and effort to my workouts. Thanks for the info on that endurance video.@@hikerJohn
@@yzf5172zone2 is not 70% mhr. Thats garminsgeneric zone2. Useable Zone2 on a 1hr run is actually about 68-79% max heartrate. Or more importantly take your 50-60min race pace heartrate (lt2) and use 0.75-0.88 and customise your z2 on your watch for this. Most people are using zone2 wrong which is why they think it doesn't work. Cheers
@@yzf5172 Depending on what the pain is, the best cure is *usually* to do resistance exercise at the gym (or home gym). I suffered knee pain for a few years and hiking did not cure it but doing leg presses and leg extensions at the gym was like a miracle cure in just a few weeks. Hiking with weak quads is harmful to the knee due to a weak patella femoral tendon that keeps the knee in alignment. Took me a few years to figure this out. You might have something else but we have to search high and now for a solution but we first have to get a diagnoses.
@@yzf5172You are doing very good. It is very smart approach doing walking on one day and cycling the other. Are you doing any strength or stability work? Try doing a 20-30 min class every week (you can find plenty on youtube) and do some of it on other days.
My best VO2 max was at 63 when I was 37 years old (it was probably better in my twenties but never calculated it then). Cross-country skiing and calisthenics HIIT training during the summer was the recipe for that.
Cross country skiing is the absolute greatest cardio sport ever. If you can get trained up to sustain cross country skiing, there’s no way around having a high VO2max
With regard to the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, it is misleading to say--as the Gibala graphic does--that the entire workout, including warmup and cooldown, is 25 minutes. The work/recovery portion of the workout adds up to 25 minutes (4 intervals of 4 minutes=16 minutes, plus 3 recoveries of 3 minutes=9 minutes). But the warmup before the first interval requires at least 5, and preferably 10, minutes. As the creators of the program (NTNU CERG) have stressed in various online videos and publications, the warmup is necessary to prepare the body for the intervals and to mildly elevate the heart rate. Add in a cooldown of 5 minutes or so, and you have a 40 minute session. I have frequently performed the protocol, and never completed the entire workout in less than 35 minutes. They also stress NOT performing each interval to complete exhaustion. It's too difficult and de-motivating to do so. Even when done in accordance with the CERG instructions, 4x4 is a pretty aversive protocol. It's very hard to stick with. I sometimes have dropped to 3-minute intervals. Just shaving a minute off each interval makes it somewhat less disagreeable. I compensate for the reduced time by adding a fifth set.
The norwegian Methode used by Ingebrigtsen and other runners includes some more rules like every reps or set need to be fast or at least as fast like the previous. This only possible for pro athlets
you gotta hit that z4-z5 to push vo2max. Zone2 is so advertised by fitness influencers nowadays - what REALLY push your fitness is when you push the upper limits. 3 years ago my vo2max was 36 when i began running and now its 54. What really kicked my vo2max in to gear was workouts like 10x400m sprints , 3x2K tempos , 8x1ks tempos.
@@BigBADSTUFF69 calf muscle strain. I’m a minimalist/barefoot runner, and running at a slower pace actually creates more vertical movement and a harder impact. As soon as I pick the pace back up the strain is gone. My 5k times dropped by about 30 seconds/mile when I tried incorporating Z2 as well. Even when I ran a marathon in 2019, my avg heart rate was 162 (max is 184). My body is just simply more adept at running at higher heart rates.
@@joemikeska2657 weird, but yeah I'm definitely not a zone 2 guy, I was a semi pro cyclist long ago and we did zone 2 on sundays with the kids on a rest day but even off season had climbing, people out there trying to say only do zone 2 like WTF?
Here is one thing to consider. The healthiest people, are going to be the ones who perform the best physically. Not saying that exercise doesn't definitely help your health, just that, to be an elite athlete, you need to start with excellent health and good genetics. My guess is that these high/elite athletes, would have a longer lifespan, even if they didn't exercise, compared to your average person. They are most likely starting with a better body and genetics. Let's face it, genetics it a HUGE factor in lifespan, more than any other factor including diet and exercise for sure.
Exactly, you are describing reverse causality. The people that start running in their 70s, probably didn't accumulate excessive joint degeneration or dementia. And their Vo2max would have been low before 70 and high after.
As someone who's done about 300h of cycling/yr in recent years, unless you're really special, you probably have two hard sessions in you per week. At most, 3, but if I do 3, I burn out fast and consistency is key. And lower intensity exercise is important as it builds up mitochondrial density and what not in muscles, ie, it makes you much more efficient at low intensity. So both high and low matter. And if you only do high intensity, you plateau fast anyway. As all things, it's a balancing act.
Yes. The thing is to train easy (Z1 and 2) for the vast majority of the time and very hard (Z4 and 5) for maybe 10% to 15% of the time. The latter usually means one serious high intensity session per week, or at most two short sessions. Any more than that and the stimulus to fatigue ratio gets out of hand and you can’t recover. What you absolutely don’t want to do is spend a lot of time in zone 3.
Great Video! I recently transitioned from below average to above average over the last 6 months. Mostly Zone 2. I think anyone starting as below average will see VO2max gains with zone 2. However once you get above average you will plateau without some kind of HIIT. Just started the 4x4 once a week, after this video I might also throw in another variation. My goal isn’t an endurance athlete. General health would suffice.
I was thinking the same thing. What is your routine? I was thinking 4 days a week of zone 2 endurance on the bike for 60 minutes each session and one day of HIIT. I’m just looking for overall longivity
I'm so glad you shined a light on the "non-responder" issue when it comes to Zone 2 training. There seems to be a fanaticism that Zone 2 will work, and if it's not working, you're not doing it right or not doing it enough. I've given it an honest try and I've just been getting embarrassingly slow. It's relieving to know that there was nothing wrong with me, I just have to do something else.
Whenever there's a mention of zone 2 not working on certain individuals, some run-always-slow-80-20 hardliner comes out saying you should be patient, you need to do it for 1000 years 🤣
@@RaoBlackWellizedArmanI did opposite to defend it. I said the less you run (example) the less zone 2 you need. But to say that zone 2 is not needed or benefitial to build aerobic base is also ignorant. We need both. You don't build aerobic base in red zone. Thats the conclusion. I can add that so many think they run zone 2 but they are in zone 3 or even 4. People buy sport watches for 1000€ but refuse to go to a lab to find out their real numbers. 😂
A big misconception is only zone2... however there should be a zone3 wkly effort 88-95% of lt2 in even a base phase. 20-60min in Zone3 as part of an 70-80min run works (88-95% of lt2 or essentially 79-86% of true max.hr). The sweetspot is around 9hrs a wk of z2 & 1hr z3.
Not mentioned is the theory that VO2max is related to basil heart rate variability which can be measured using an accurate heart rate monitor. Higher variability is associated with higher VO2max. (See study conducted by Polar that is the source of the data driving their VO2max test app).
People . . . You that say zone 2 is not working . . .You need all the zones! You need: Zone 1-2 for both aerobic and for recovery Pick-ups (a few10 second HIT interspersed in Zone 1-2) High Intensity Continuous Workouts (Zone 3) Tempo training Progressive Distance Workouts (60 minutes or up to 2 hrs) HIIT (hill sprints, bike, rowing etc) (every 6-10 days depending on your condition)
That's interesting you mention HIIT every 10 days. I get chronic fatigue when I do them once every week, but maybe basing my training on a non weekly schedule might help.
Thank god for this video! I am a commited exerciser and been looking to how much time I should spend on high intensity workout as I have a race to compete in in 3 weeks time 😅
6:40 I'd have liked to see studies supporting the contention that for anyone exercising 3-5 times a week half of the sessions should be VO2max training. That advice is quite a bit different to what I've seen elsewhere.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I’m 58 and in the very low VO2 range. I suffered from a hormonal issue for 15 years that greatly damaged my cardiovascular system, combined with a sedentary job. Last year, I had surgery that cured my condition, and started working out - walking, then running, then hiking. It helped, but only got me into the “low” range. But most of my cardio was Zone 1 or low Zone 2, very rarely pushing myself hard. I’m concerned about my long-term health, so I’m looking for ways to make considerably more progress in cardio health. I should add here that I injured myself (achilles tendonitis) a few months ago on a week-long hike, so I haven’t been able to run since, and numbers have been falling. Sigh.
@@carlvonfuckwits2934 It was actually high, not low! Aldosterone, which is made by the adrenal glands, and regulates blood pressure, sodium/potassium balance, and a number of other things. The illness is called primary aldosteronism, and it is usually (but not always) caused by a benign tumor in an adrenal gland that overproduces the hormone, and ignores the brain’s signals to stop. In my case, when I was finally diagnosed, I was 10x over normal maximum levels. I spent 15 years with impossible to control high blood pressure, and dangerously low potassium. No meds solved any of it. When I was finally diagnosed, I went on spironolactone, and my blood pressure dropped 20 points, while my potassium hit the low end of “normal”. I felt like I could punch and elephant! After 8 months of complex testing (like having blood drawn from both adrenal glands simultaneously), I was declared a candidate for surgery. My left adrenal gland was removed with extreme prejudice. Since then, my blood pressure and potassium levels are both normal, and I was also unexpectedly cured of another chronic condition that I had assumed would require laser surgery treatments multiple times a year for the rest of my life! Aldosteronism is grossly underdiagnosed, thanks to how doctors are taught. It is considered a rare, even exotic condition - a zebra rather than a horse, as my spouse puts it. So they don’t even look for it - they treat the blood pressure and potassium issues with normal regimens, except the normal regimens don’t work. My surgeon treats dozens of cases per year, and thinks it is the cause of 5-10% of all severe high blood pressure. This is the mainstream view among his peers who treat it. If they’re right, that means aldosteronism kills 30-60,000 people per year in the US - numbers that rival car crashes, suicide, and common cancers. And it’s easy to diagnose with a $200 blood test, and can be treated with medication or cured with surgery in most cases. (I told my surgeon I thought he’d added 10 years to my life, and he said “Probably, at least ten years”). So, I rant about it a lot. :)
Hope that it gets better often foam rolling keeps mobility. Try sports that don't put that much stress on it like cycling but keep up walking and bit of hiking if possible and pain free. He careful with the amount of elevation on your hikes or runs.
Achilles injuries..even just tendinitis..take a long time to recover fully from. I’m following the protocols (regular 2 finger massage..gentle stretching, etc)..but progress is ‘painfully’ slow. After a good month plus..I’m still feeling pain upon awakening from sleep - in particular. Maybe there’s something I can add that will help. Need to get back to senior softball in 3 months fully recovered.
Used to play football/soccer three times a week. Which is by far the best high intensity workout that I enjoy. Unfortunately I've had a medial deltoid ligament strain which doesn't seem to be healing one year on so unable to run at the moment. I do cycle, and have a concept 2 rower so I guess I'll just have to use that to increase my VO2 max.
Using Vo2 max as the one and only fitness metric seems kinda weird. It's true that Zone 2 training is not enough to see significant improvements to your Vo2 max but it's insane to think that it would not improve your cardiovascular fitness.
I run 4 times a week, so I don't have any problem working on my VO2max but I don't buy this. Most of the long lived people I've heard of or I met in person never ran in their lives and I bet their V02max was average. I also question how they determine the amount of years you could gain by increasing your VO2max. How do you really control for that?
Good vid. My problem with too high % intense training is injury risk. I see both zone 2 CV and slow twitch conditioning (all muscles, joints, meridians) as the investment that pays for the intensity of sport. At my age. For me, injury has been a bigger hit on performance and health than not reaching that dream of an extra few mmol VO2max.
Add a completely different activity to your training. Running and swimming or cycling or yoga. You are right injuries are a huge hit to maintaining fitness but most injuries are repetitive injuries. Just a thought
Chronic fatigue too. For me doing HIIT for many trading cycles makes be burn out. I now only do zone 2 and was able to keep training consistently. Vo2max over 60 and in my 40s, no high intensity at all.
@purpleblueunicorn sorry to hear that happened but 60 is really good now so seems to be working for you. Personally I wouldn't want to completely exclude higher intensity work after recovered. It's a case of use it or lose it with power / strength / conditioning.
@@tonyrabone4668 it's very hard to lose muscle even if you train endurance. Lance Armstrong for example is a bigger cyclist and can't become skinny like all climbers. I'm the same, after over 10 years of no strength training, I'm still a muscular cyclist and can still close a #1 COC gripper (140lbs). Even over 80yo can gain muscle by strength training.
@purpleblueunicorn that's great for you. I also don't struggle with laying down and retaining muscle. I guess its in our DNA. However, I do lose strength, power and agility. Sprinting, cutting, throwing, climbing etc.
Thanks Doc. I've been doing mostly strength training for old age survival. A bit of MAF cardio, but I've been testing out my VO2 max ... indirectly, by monitoring my oxygen levels with a pulse oximeter. At 69, I know I've lost some capacity and if I do some sprint type work on my Bowflex Max trainer, I seem to get better weight training results. Like, initially, my levels are around 95% or so. After about 16 minutes, with several hard 30 second HIT stepping, the oxygen gets to 98% and STAYS higher for a while, and it seems that more oxygenated blood helps immensely with heavy lifting. I've also noticed just better general fitness, so I'm stepping up my game now in that area. All due to YOU.... thanks so much for this important additional metric. Running is out now , due to psoriatic arthritic knees, but I can pound the Bowflex, and the extra HIT intervals really help.
Zone 2 is fine for health and the ability to go further and longer. Most people will be fine with that. Athletes looking to increase VO2 max definitely need to push harder in the HIIT mode. 80/20 steady state to high intensity seems to be the recommended mix for them.
Yes and n. Training in Zone 2 is grade foe cardio and general fitness and has a low risk of injury but is it tough enough to go along with life has to over?
I tried doing 4x4 twice a week for ~2 months or so, and I experienced chest pains and was told by a doctor that I had high blood pressure. 4x4 once a week is fine for me though
I am a zone 2 non-responder. I was a sprinter and have always struggled to improve my 2-mile run time (Army). Training harder works. I would like to see a study on this because I assume people with good power/speed genetics are the majority of the non-responders to zone 2 training.
There is no way a normal person can do 7 hours of zone 2 AND other training AND have a life. And if I got no improvement out of 2-3 hours/week it is hard to imagine I would magically start responding with more. But I can not train at all and still sprint, vertical leap, powerclean a shitload of weight, etc. Genetics giveth and taketh.@@pierrex3226
Hello mate. I spent years doing regular 3-5 mile runs and got frustrated with my times. What broke my plateau was doing one interval session a week, one sprint session a week and one long job (ten miles at a snail pace) a week in addition to my normal 3-5 mile runs. That got me a sub 40-minute 10K.
I agree with @pierrex3226 and @goodyeoman4534. If you want to improve your time for anything over 1500 meters, I'd recommend slowly increasing your weekly total volume of running mileage. Run over 75% of your miles at Zone 2 to help prevent injury. If you can increase your weekly volume to over 25 miles/week (and idealy over 40 miles/week), your times will certainly start going down. Jack Daniels book "Running Formula" provides comprehensive data and strategies for elite and recreational runners.
I’m 65 with a VO2 Max around 45-47. I’ve had a hard time hitting 48. My goal is 50. I ride my bike 250 miles a month, mostly on a wind trainer for consistency. I like to workout 10 miles a day, mostly power zone 2 with some zone 4/5 thrown in…probably a 90/10 ratio. When I try to go over that I feel sick. I find shorter daily rides work best for me. I take off 4-5 days at the end of the month with a 5-10 mile ride on the middle day, just to keep my VO2 from falling. I started with a VO2 Max of 38.
Dang! Putting me to shame at 64. I just tested at 32.6. The blessing is it gives you a baseline to move forward from. If you’re shooting for 50 then so am I!
Zone 2 is still great for vo2 max, you just have to do more of it, 2.5 hours a week is not nearly enough. It works great for me, as soon as I do vo2 max work I'm dead for the next 2 days!, and if I did it again after 2 days, I'd be dead for 4 days... etc. Zone 2 is just more sustainable for me.
Vo2 legit every two days is too much. If you understand, zone 2 vo2 benefits can occur over time but require VOLUME, BUT there's a low ceiling to it's impact on vo2 adaptive benefits. Set up a protocol of adequate recovery from vo2 sessions. Ice bath after, Epsom salt soaks few days later. Adequate rest and active recovery zone work. There's nothing wrong of feeling beat up worked from true vo2 work. That's the point
I train vo2max or threshold 2 times a week while running, the rest is in zone 2 or even lower - swim, bike, gym. You can recover from it if you don't overdo, it should be short and painfull, 1x10min with 1 min rest or recovery@vo2max speed while running for me - sometimes it only lasts for 40-50min with warmup and warmdown, 1x1,2x2, 3x3,2x2,1x1 tempo or some kind of fartlek training, rest is 1h@150w hometrainer, higher cadences, 1h swim etc. Tried for 6months only zone 2 training, went great, didn t get injured, had great energy but lost a lot of top end speed in running and biking, however I had an ironman coming so I went all in for endurance and it paid off. Trying something different this winter (80/20)
2 and half hours if you don't include your daily walking and cycling or commutes can be quite a lot. Would equate to two 45 minute and one hours workout quite a lot for many. It is a very good base at 6 minute kilometer pace that's about 25 kilometers a week.
If you think zone 2 is enough to raise your VO2 max, you don't have a very high VO2 max. It will only raise it if yours is low. You can't get to athlete VO2 max levels with zone 2. Just not possible.
I was riding my bike a few hours a day because of my job (zone 1/2) and I thought it should keep me decently fit. Nope. I suspect my Vo2 Max plummeted. Sure, being sedentary would have been way worse, and I'm sure I'm highly fat-adapted because of it, but no amount of light activity will ever replace the good old spitting out of your lungs.
Then it is time on the weekend to spend do some work like longer bike rides or short hikes for the start. Strength work in the gym is a kalorie killer too, more muscle does need a lot of energy. Don't leave out cardio either 10 minutes walking on a treadmile and 10 minutes on the eliptical are good for a start but can be more later. Good luck.
Writing this before having watched the video. Increasing vo2 max is very straightforward. Just do long duration steady state cardio combined with some intense cardio workouts, say 2 intense workouts per week and 3 steady state. So a polarized training plan. If you have less time then stick to doing all your cardio workouts intense. No point doing low intensity steady state if you are not doing enough of it.
@Dr Rhonda Could we please have a laymen-remedial Video to explain VO2 max examples in several different ways? While I enjoy the high-caliber conversations VO2 Max escapes me.
A masters competitive swim workout will do the trick. Swimmers consistently have elevated VO2 Max because breathing has to be regulated while doing interval sets that all swimming workouts are composed of. I know many would never want to swim competitively, but even going to a US Masters workout will give you what you are looking for. I did a stress test on a treadmill at age 61 and the doctor told me I did better than 50% of the 30 year olds he tests. It works.
Of course zone 2 cardio is not enough, no one ever said it was . . . that's why athletic coaches use an 80/20 method of heart rate training. When someone says something is not working and you have to do something else . . . yeah, your probably doing it wrong or your goals do not match your training methods. The biggest stimulus to increase the aerobic capacity of muscle fiber is *glycogen depletion* so you have to do that but only 20% of your workouts. You cannot train every day in too low of a HR zone and eat gells and expect to get results because you are not depleting your glycogen. You can increase VO2 max with HIIT faster but you will not train the slow twitch muscle fiber that's needed for endurance using too much HIIT. Too much HIIT and not enough Zone 2 and you will have Aerobic Deficiency Syndrome. Too much HIIT and no zone 2 and you might be a sprinter but you wont be able to run far. Some people cannot increase their VO2 MAX because they are already at a high level but they can and need to increase there mitochondria volume of the slow twitch muscle . . . The title of this video is a form of straw-man clickbait. And making *associations* to say you will live longer is just wrong. Training for a marathon or ultra marathon is totally different than training for a 200M and age makes a difference as to what you should train for as well. Sprinters do not do and do not need to do a lot of zone 2 workouts. Ask yourself WHY you are training the way you are training . . . . If you want to get your brain wrapped around this watch the YT video "The Physiology Of Endurance" (two parts) posted 10 months ago on the channel "Evokeendurance"
Thanks for this, I am a natural athletic sprint individual but struggle with long distance (cardio/lactic acid). I have been hammering HIIT for years but neglected this slow twitch muscle fibres. Need to step up my zone 2 . Thanks
@@jthomas4361look up Arthur Lydiard and what he managed to achieve with Peter Snell. Snell had a reasonable 24sec 200m ability when they 1st started. Ended up down to 22.2 200m ability...but also 1:44-1:46 800m on grass which is just mind bending good 60yrs ago. Snell did tons of zone2 in his base phase. On the hills/undulating he'd have been in Zone3 (sub threshold spikes but still under lt2). Full useable zone2 easy & steady = your lt2 x 0.75-0.88 . This range will help your endurance alot. 1 run a wk hit a sub threshold (zone3) 88-95% of your lt2 heartrate. Lt2 of course being your 50-60min fresh race intensity.
@@anonymousperson167 So because we agree you say I'm not contributing??? Did you say that to all the other comments? The title assumes people are doing all Zone 2 so I'm reinforcing the fact that no one ever said they should and why they should not and I gave a reference to a better video that explains WHY. She said a lot that I did not address and I said things she did not address or I put it in different words. At least I took the time to actually say something that's useful chump.
Some of the VO2max results seem somewhat surprising since one limiting factor for VO2max is heart pump volume and an exceptionally high VO2max should be associated with an enlarged heart, which you would expect to lower life expectancy at some point. It seems a useful question to ask how to improve VO2max from the mitochondrial side without necessarily increasing heart volume. I always assumed that the short interval training improvements to VO2max were at least partly from repeatedly putting high pressure on the heart chambers and then releasing them to increase heart volume, risking some amount of heart tissue scarring etc.
Great point! I would believe the health benefits are mostly due to reverse causation since Vo2max can be mostly maxed out in 6 month so those that can keep a high value are a healthy bunch. More than that would be diminishing returns or excess stress on the heart, atrial fibrillation happens to a lot of cyclists that do intervals. More zone 2 would also allow you to sustain a higher percentage of Vo2max without necessarily raising it.
The question begs whether VO2 Max is the driver of the reported health benefits or whether it is a proxy for other lifestyle factors which accompany it in individuals with higher VO2 max.
Very likely. I have a friend who has a relatively good vo2 max bec he plays hockey a lot, but, his dietary habits, genetic risk factors and bodyweight basically nullify the longevity benefits of his vo2. He's a rarity imo bec the discipline it takes for consistent vo2 work is usually accompanied by discipline in other lifestyle areas, esp diet, smoking, rest, stress mgmt etc
VO max can be a confunder because high VO2 max can be indicative of a more healthy lifestyle no smoking less drugd or alcohol or general high fitness that allows for more workout options. Higher Life expectancy is not only cause be high VO2 max but by other Faktors or less risky behaviour like less smoking.
I think it's reverse causality at play. Being able to raise your vo2max requires a healthy body. Just like grip strength, one foot standing test or raising yourself without arms are considered indicators of longevity, but also of a healthy body without excessive joint degeneration.
When you give time between the raising of your heart bpm, like, staying 1 or 2 or 3 minutes in each tenths ( 120/130/140/150), your body get acclimated and it requires less effort to accompany the raising of your workload (exercise effort) So you can go further and longer, I must say, without the acid latic noticably kicking in This can preserve the body and its quite healing for the system The cool down should be something similar too, getting down without a huge change in effort (say a level 15 in elliptical goes to a sudden 2) and sustaining a couple of minutes in each significant mark for you (160/150/140/120) I know sometimes we dont have time for it, but when we do, I highly encourege we all do it Drastic changes are what tear down the body (once in a while prolly ok)
That's interesting info. Thank-you. I ran 16km five days ago, day off, Ran 8km (upper zone 3,) a day off, then my Garmin gave me an interval session of 6min hard, 3min recovery, x3. But I didn't hit the lap button to start the interval session, (didn't know that.) till after 40min of low zone 3, which my HRM called warm up. (My average sortie is 6km a shot.) It was my CBT coach several years ago, who put me onto aerobic and CV training. (I used to be morbidly obese.)
I've never officially tested for my VO2 max on any machines but I can roughly gauge my cardiovascular progress by how fast i recover back to normal breathing after running 400m sprints or even laps in the pool. It used to take me at least a full minute to stop panting. Nowadays, it takes me no more than 10 seconds to catch my breath and have my heart rate come down to normal. Even though I'll still wait at least an extra minute to restart my sprint again just like I would during weight lifting. My cardiovascular threshold has somewhat surpassed the strength in my legs to go any faster so I have to run over a longer distance and time to get to that max heart rate and really lose my breath and fully utilize the oxygen in every muscle. Rule of thumb is, I'll do lower intensity (zone 2 runs or long brisks walks) over longer periods of time (within 40 minutes - under 1 hour) but if i go hard, i’ll keep it short and sweet (within 15 minutes) Our body wants a sweet spot doing just enough of everything it needs. Over-do it and you're headed for injuries, under and you won't get the effects on a cellular level. Like how the dosage is the poison for things we consume, it's also imperative to get the dosage right for the cure, for it to work. BOTH fast twitch and slow twitch muscles are just as important to maintain. It gets better and better once you're adapted. I would never trade my body for my teenage self. (I'm past mid-30s now) That's how i know I'm on the right track. I'm not decimating my spine with years of ego lifting or running for hours on end and messing with my adrenals. There's a stress level that is beneficial until it's not anymore and starts to turn around and bite us in the ass and the diminishing returns start to stack up. The key is to find that goldilocks ratio spread out over the week. For our cardio, resistant weight training, deep active stretching and explosive plyometrics for a well-rounded strength, endurance, flexibility and agility. Of course, nutrition and rest plays a huge role to recover fast from every workout. That's a body we can thrive in and enjoy the returns for all the work we're putting in daily over decades. The ultimate goal is to allow our routine to be sustainable enough to withstand the test of time and discipline into our centenarian years for true longevity, possessing a highly functional physical body and mind to lead a quality life.
I agree, This is a good post. I'm always trying to find the Goldilocks Ratio and at 70 years old it's important to not overdo it but I'm still finding PB's a getting faster at the tempo sessions. The best thing Ive started doing is going to the gym and working those tendons that are the most vulnerable. Not trying to put on any show muscles. It's always the tendons that get hurt and they are the slowest to recover and can sideline you for months
Yes I've met someone around your age recently who told me he used to lift as heavy as humanly possible when he was young for over 30 years and now he's suffering the consequences of it. Shoulders have lingering injuries that never healed which resulted in Osteoarthritis. I think people who like doing long distances (etc running and cycling for hours and hours) will suffer in the later stages of their life as well. People injure themselves because they don't bulletproof the "mobile areas" (our shoulders, elbows, wrists, spine, knees, hips, ankles etc) and workout too much in a linear manner with loads that are too heavy too soon. We don't move that way in real life and it does not help hedge a fall. The joints and cartilage stability and strength must match up with the muscle gains. Muscles are our body armor because it helps to soak up glucose like a sponge and most people are under-muscled, which is also one of the key reasons why people start to have so much metabolic issues cause they can't even metabolize properly. Atrophying of our muscles would be the first steep slope of everything going downhill because it helps us in so many ways on a cellular level. Most doctors don't link diseases to the amount of muscle-fat ratio we carry but it affects key problems like insulin resistance and even brain volume. You may not need big muscles for show, but you need to make sure you don't carry a large percentage of visceral fats on your body and a good muscle mass ratio to be able to use them. Some can't even flex their glutes or quads cause they've never been activated! Your protein intake is also super important and key for protein synthesis apart from resistance weight training to maintain or grow muscle mass. When you're young(er) 30g of protein is sufficient to trigger leucine for protein synthesis, but as you grow older you almost need to double that amount to ensure you hit the minimum requirement each meal for muscles to actually grow or at least be maintained. You can check out Dr Donald Layman, he's around your age and is a protein expert and his mentee Dr Grabrielle Lyon talks about muscle-centric importance in all of her podcasts as well. Hope you find something that works for you. Everyone is different, it's really all about finding your OWN goldilocks ratio with self-awareness and trial-and-errors. The fact that you're still on a learning curve at 70 means you've accumulated a wealth of it already compared to most folks and peers your age. Every new decade is something to discover and readjust again so have fun on your journey and enjoy the process! @@hikerJohn
I am a smoker 39 year old and after wearing a smartwatch (samsung galaxy 5) I found out my VO2 max was "very poor" at 32.5 or something. I have been doing 5-6 km runs once a week and shorter but faster runs since then every week (6 months now) but the watch still tells me I am at 35 which is "Poor" VO2 max. Obviously my smoking doesn't help but what else could be holding back my Vo2 max going above 40?
What do studies indicate on people like me? I increased my VO2 max from 31 to 50 seven years ago. I’m a runner now. But I can’t seem to manage my food intake. I still love to eat!! At 59, my VO2 max is holding at 47 and it doesn’t look like I’m going to change my eating habits.
Hi, in regards to your “Low Fitness” commentary in relation to heart disease and smoking, this is a remarkable framework that I’ve never heard before, and profoundly important. (3:10min mark). How are you defining “Low Fitness”?
How do I measure this ❓ I just got this recommended by youtube. I am a new runner. Average heart rate: 145 on 8:30 min per mile 125 on 10 min miles. I usually run 40-50 miles per week.
Zone 2 is perfect for me at my age ‘ I never liked intense exercise ‘ even in my younger days ‘ plus I do weight training ‘ not to intense’ which is a good combo
Hence, becoming fitter will remarkably increase health and longevity, but becoming really unfit (out of shape) will remarkably deteriorate health and longevity. It's remarkable that the samples were large enough to control for CV disease, smoking, and diabetes. What do the data show for the correlation between being Unfit (i.e., very low VO2Max for one's age) and BMI? Is it comparable?
It's odd to hear you use the term "interval" to mean the work phase of interval training. My understanding of "interval" in common English, as well as the origin of the concept of "interval training", is that instead of a single, prolonged high-effort session, training is broken by intervals. I.e. "interval" literally means the interruption-the rest / recovery gap-between high-intensity / work states. It's jarring on the language sensibilities having to mentally re-interpret the meaning. I wonder if anyone else experiences this reversed use of "interval" as a little distracting? Aside from this, as always, very informative and useful references to the research. Thank you. In the chart at 3:42, I'd have loved to see a 5th group for us time-challenged folk of low volume-high intensity.
Hello Rhonda - any metrics we can take to measure if we are having success on training - more around blood or mitochondria health. I'd like to explore those metrics - add some more training for 6 months and then re-measure
Im 38 with VO2 max of 52. Have been on a garmin training plan for past 12 weeks to get me to a half marathon PB. Training includes approx 50km training per week, 6 days per week and mostly zone 2 split 80/20. Garmin tells me my training lacks anaerobic training, even factoring in the speed workouts it tells me to do. Im just going to ride it out for the remainder of plan and pick up more anaerobic impacting training after my half marathon.
Is there an actual study comparing the effects of using the norwegian 4x4 vs 1min on 1min off protocol? Interested to see the difference and modify my workout accordingly
Im an avid 53 yo cyclist. I feel strong on the bike and have more energy and strength than when I was in my 20s. My garmin device says my vo2 max is 77. Im not sure if this is very accurate but I suppose its a good benchmark to use going forward when using this garmin device. I should note I ride primarily group rides with a lot of high intensity efforts along with easier efforts when socializing on these rides. I have more time in Zone 4 and 5 than in zone 2
Do you know what's your ftp? 77 is extremely high, and your be smoking all the friends. maybe if you ride without power Garmin things you're not drafting and over estimating. Also if your Vo2max is that high, you must be riding s lot, and it would be impossible to have most of this time in Z4/5
What i miss out on that video a little, but maybe thats due to concerns for the audience not going deep enough is that VO2Max ist very dependant on the sports you`re doing. e.g. VO2Max might be lower at distance runners, because Running Economy is a huge factor in running, but not so much in cyclcing. LOean mass, expecially muscle can increase the VO2MAX without providng more benefit and then theres VO2Peak which play also a factor. Very good video and as i said, comprehensive and not overloading the audience.
Pretty sure muscle mass would decrease Vo2max since it's calculated with weight in the denominator. As a cyclist, it's very important to not have big muscles and bigger chest and biceps will only give me a bigger denominator in the Vo2max equation with zero added power.
1:00 this seems to suggest that if you are in the normal CRT range, you really only benefit if you lift yourself to the “better-than-normal” range (c 3 years incremental life expectancy vs c 1 year). That makes some intuitive sense.
Each of my runs last 1.3 to 2.0 hours, up hill mostly. I do this 3 to 4 timex per week, and spend at least 3 days per week strength training. This is done every week, 7 days per week.
I’m 46 and have a 49.5 vo2 max. I’m a runner and have been trying to watch what I eat. I’m not a great runner or a great athlete. I try to exercise and stay fit.
Thanks for the information. I do HIIT this way: 45 secs exercise & 15 secs break giving me 1 minute per exercise and this is done between 30 mins to 1hr allowing me to do around 25-45 HIIT workouts per session, targeting the whole body per session. I do boxing, Running, HIIT & Spinning as my cardio exercises. Boxing is really great for VO2 Max. It tires you out faster than sprinting. What I have learned (without tech & deep Scientifics) is that your body will speak to you on what it needs, and all you need to do is listen to it, and work on the areas that need improvement, so that your body gets the right workouts to be in sync & to achieve optimum performance. Science & gadgets help us track what we do & how well we do it, but can become confusing & overwhelming. There is a time to push your limits to see how you have improved, there is a time to refrain from doing that. Your body will speak to you and you can move from there. Goals work well with anti-goals. Goal = what you want & an anti-goal = what you don't want. You achieve both of them simultaneously. It is wise to take the advice of others as it will help you avoid a lot of unnecessary injuries, time, and other setbacks. Training your body is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience & wisdom are the keys that lead to many achievements in life.
I am 51 and my VO2 max is at 48. I have started to slowly add a higher intensity interval training once every 4-5 workouts. I don’t look at it as a weekly idea, but after I do my shorter easier run for my rotation in the week then I hit my interval workout during the next session. I am hoping I can improve my VO2 max to a 52.
I'm so sick of only hearing about all this zone 2 and threshold training. For me it never worked. I became a sub 4 min mile runner doing fast intervals... 200m reps, 300m reps, 400m reps. Very little mileage and very few threahold runs. Lots of sessions at 400m race pace, 800m pace, 1500m pace and sometimes 5km pace. Classic Frank Horwill 5 tier training principals.to quote Peter Coe "lots of long slow running creates long slow runners." Thanks for highlighting the benefits of HIIT!!
I’ve always trained at about 80%, was raised before zone 2 was a thing. In the past few years I’ve tried zone 2 and honestly didn’t see any benefit at all, in fact it made me slower and caused leg injuries from changing my natural gait. Now I’m back to mostly 80% (threshold pace) with sprint training weekly. At 52, according to Garmin my VO2 is 49. I’ll stick with higher intensity training.
Nice! I use Garmin Forerunner 235 for running. I've also found Zone 2 does not help increase VO2Max, but I find Zone 2 running at least 70% of my weekly mileage helps prevent injury and prevent burnout (46 yo). If I do tempo of VO2Max workouts more than 1-2 days/week, I will certainly get an overuse injury within 4-6 weeks. Zone 2 is really helpful for building your aerobic base--like the foundation that you can build VO2Max workouts on top of. The changing of gait with Zone 2 is something I've struggled with also; I've found that run-walking works better for Zone 2 or recovery runs bc then I I can maintain good running form; when that becomes tedious I mix in stationary bicycle for Zone 2. In the end, I'd stick with what you know works for you. I've never acquired a VO2 Max over 46, so you inspired that I can break VO2Max of 50 in the next five years!
It has been proven again and again that a good combination of different intensities with lots of low intensity training is better than training in one zone only. This is no new fad, this is accumulated knowledge since the 1960s! Whether 80/20 is optimal for you or another ratio is another thing, but you leave progress on the table going 80% only. About your gait: many people struggle at first when they run slower than normally. But this doesn't mean it's a bad thing to run slowly, it means they haven't developped the skill of running slowly. But developping this skill helps you at higher paces because it improves efficiency. This, too, is not controversial anymore but has been used since the 60s. "Zone 2 only" training like Maffetone is controversial, but not the benefits of spending much time in this zone.
@@TheSandkastenverbot again, I have trained in zone 2, and I lost performance in almost every measure: slower sprints, slower 5k, slower 10 mile. There are always outliers. For instance, based on my age my max heart rate should be 168, but in reality that is my lactate threshold. My measured max HR is 185. My most first and only marathon I held a 162 heart rate average and finished in under 4 hours. There are always outliers.
I’m was an interval runner for many years and sometimes cross training with weight based training, my V02 max during this time was in the exceptional bracket. I switched my training CrossFit and my V02 reduced to average, not sure if this is due to adaptations slowly occurring or just that the previous exercise regime was just better ?
I'd say a mixture of the old regime being better and possibly the old regime made it easier fo whatever was measuring/estimating your VO2max to do it accurately. I've always found the intervals have helped with vo2max, but long (~2hr), fairly hard, tempo runs even better for building V02max. I think those sessions are also quite good for sports watches to estimate it as they have a known distance, time, climb, pace, weight and heart rate to work with.
I am doing PNOE metabolic testing in North San Diego to help test and not guess how individuals need to train with a personalized program then retest every three months to update and course correct
Download the FREE companion guide for this episode, the 9-page Cognitive Enhancement Blueprint:
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thanks rhonda patrick ,being one of the most viewers of your channel its great do more thanks
This makes me want to work out everyday, 2 times a day. Thank you Doc
Running is essential. My grandfather started running 3 km a day when he was 75 years old. He is now 77 and we have no idea where he is
😂
Probably somewhere 2,190 K away
@@benjaminkahn4383 you did the math
He's got a lot in common with Joe Biden.
@@acanfield87 😂
for us civilians why get hung up on a VO2 max calculation.... just run 12 mins and establish a baseline .... train ... and periodically run that 12 minute test again.... ran 10% further? You've improved your VO2 max! I think all of this technology (or lack thereof) sometimes just gets in the way of getting started. Love your stuff Dr. Rhonda Patrick...
thanks for the info
It can get in the way, but it's also an excellent tool to actually get competitive if you get serious
@@geometerfpv2804 and perhaps this is the point - first start, and when you get used to the practice itself, you can dive into the tech details for fun/added challenges.
for stupid people
i just wanted to train just a little smarter with zone2 training , and i got trapped in the rabbit hole of how to find my true zone 2... ah fudge it i just wanna run
My V02 when i started running 8 months ago was a 42. Yesterday's was a 54. I think that is solid for 45 years old concerning how new I am. Ive been watching your videos on the reg. Thanks for the help.
You are the better Huberman, concise and to the point. No time wasting. Your channel is one of the best out there for health, and longevity.
Huberman went from "eyeball dude" to "general purpose advice on everything dude" - the Jordan Peterson arc.
no one is 'better'than huberman
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned
@@j.elliottcole9506 This is a great observation. I've noticed this a lot of lately.
I love that you put the “80/20” rule of thumb into context. Lots of recreational runners abide by that because that’s what the professional marathon runners do, but for most people not managing massive mileage and targeting shorter distances, around half at faster paces moves the needle best. 1km repeats feel the most satisfying to me and they roughly line up with the Norwegian 4x4 protocol! I do 5 of them to target the 5km, though.
Yes !!
I always explain why it's not a good idea to apply this 80/20 rule to recreationnal runners or cyclists. Even for a lot of competitors runners who are training 4, 5 or 6 time a week. 80/20 rule is good for athlètes who train 8, 10 or 12 times a week, with few rest between each session.
@@kindregardlessI’m sure I’ll be great, thanks. Being very fit in adulthood lets you decline more gradually in old age.
Anything high intensity needs adequate warm up, especially as a person gets older. So you don't end up saving all that much time.
Also, HIT is unsuitable for people that are new to regular physical activity. You have to develope an aerobic base first. Most people need to walk a couple thousand steps extra regularly for a couple of months first, before they touch HIT.
1k repeats are great! More manageable than mile repeats which I love, too. But I sometimes got suck/ flu in the winter with me repeats of 5 minutes. 3 miles each workout.
@@erwanlecorre7613 Yet Petter Attia who Rhonda often brings up and who is not an elite athlete is doing tuesday, thursday, saturday in zone 2 and sunday in zone that is close to vo2 max. I guess do the thing that makes you stick to it
Oh goodness - “the guidelines” of 2.5 hours per week not responding IS the problem. It’s not enough. A lot of folks advocating for “high volume, low heart rate training” talk about needing to put in around 10+ hours per week, and the Norwegian Olympians leveraging a lot of this low intensity training to win gold medals in triathlon / set Ironman records see almost linear increases all the way up to 30+ hours per week. The other problem is you need to stay below lactate threshold turning points while doing this type of training, which means you regularly have to test your lactate levels as you train. HIIT protocols get you some short-term bumps in VO2 max sooner, but they plateau and take a disproportionate amount of time to recover from. The Norwegians crushing endurance sports are doing the bulk of their training in the low intensity. Folks saying the reason why non-responders didn’t respond “isn’t understood” haven’t done their research. The Norwegians are doing a LOT more than just some HIIT protocols, lol.
You nailed it, this is pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. I’ll add, the assumption she makes that someone should add more high intensity training to boost VO2 is based off of singular short term studies where a significant increase was noted in a 6-8 week span. She should look at the aerobic performance stagnation that always occurs when intensity is emphasized over a high volume of aerobic training. She should look for a study that shows the steady VO2 max increase from someone who trains zone 1-2 endurance 6-8 hours every week for a decade.
Agreed
The average Joe doesn’t have hours and hours a week to give to low intensity cardio bud, not everyone out here trying to win gold medals either. She is referring to those who want the biggest bang for buck, for those who don’t have much time and work full time jobs with families, and want to improve their health outcomes as greatly as possible with the least time invested. In that case HIIT training is way more efficient than committing to hours upon hours of mind numbing low intensity cardio.
@@Halloum_ - No one’s forcing you to workout if you don’t have the time. But if you don’t understand why “HIGH VOLUME, low heart rate” zone 2 training isn’t working or “not understood”… it’s probably because you missed the high volume part, lol, as evident by only doing 2.5 hours. It’s like going on a low carb diet and only lowering your carb intake by a few grams, and then telling people it didn’t work. The research presented here is missing a big part of the picture… that research elsewhere understands more clearly and has presented in a more balanced way. People can do whatever they like with it… but should at least be informed that 2.5 hours per week isn’t high volume, low heart rate training.
Spot on. Thanks for calling this out.
I started tracking my VO2 in May of 2022 and I was at 32.2 at 46 years old. I did a regimen of walking and elliptical almost everyday and now my VO2 is at 40.2.
Wow. Awesome
zone 2 on the elliptical?
I feel great when i do a lot of zone 2
@@prandz420good choice
How much is it?
How long did it take to see that improvement?
I did the 12 minute test and used one of the on-line Cooper calculators, which gave me a VO2Max of 31. My Garmin watch gives me a VO2 Max of 38. I'm 85, first started running when Cooper published his Aerobics book.
Fair play, sir! How many meters / distance did you manage? Very impressive at 85!
The Garmin is probably more accurate.
Good call. Apple Watch (I have had every model, from the 7 to now the Ultra) produces data that is straight up, downright WRONG all of the time and its V02 max estimates shown in Apple Health are not any better. I've been wearing these AND my GARMIN running watches (one on either wrist, I know, don't care what people think...let them think away) since I read a study on V02 max and longevity some 15 years ago, and the study participants were given these same Garmin devices to obtain accurate measurements. Polar is another brand that's comparable and used in studies, but VO2 Max per Apple Health / Apple Watch is a JOKE. GARMIN is far better and uses the Cooperman Institute's methodology.
You ain't 85 years old, you ding-dong!
These podcasts are a fantastic way to promote good / improving health / fitness
Explained in a clear and unpatronising way - motivational for everyone concerned with fitness / health improvement .
Well done to all involved ……..
Thank you for this vidéo.
I live in France and I am fitness instructor and coach. I coach a lot of different people. Some for fitness and health, some for performance and compétition (running, cycling and inline speedskating), from 13 to 75 years old.
I spend a lot of time explaining why it's not good to apply the 80/20 rule to every one. Just because you can't compare people who are training 2 or 3 hours à week with high level athletes who are traning 15, 20 hours a week or more with consequently less time to rest between training sessions.
For me high intensity is the key. For performance and also for health. For age people or beginners, high intensity seems to be zone 3 or top of zone 2, but you need to push your limits at least a few minutes every week.
I think you hit it right about high intensity.
Back when I was still running (ten years ago, then age 58) I always ran the same way -- alternate days, 3-5 miles at about a 7-minute pace. If I hadn't been running for awhile, I'd run shorter but not slower. In an occasional race, I'd aim at under 20 minutes for a 5K, under 40 minutes for 10K.
My last 10K, at age 52, I ran under 39 minutes. My sole marathon, at age 43, I ran at 3:28 (hit the 'wall' at 20 miles thanks to my low-mileage routine). At the time, I had a lab-tested VO2max of 62.
I now cycle instead of running. According to Garmin, my currrent VO2max is 50. Can't outrun age, I guess. As far as zones go, on yesterday's cycle I averaged over 140 bpm for the first 40 minutes (a lot of uphill). I figure that's the sweet spot for me as I hope to improve my fitness, which wouldn't happen if I stuck to zone 2 or 3.
Interestingly, Garmin says I need more low aerobic, less high aerobic. I'll stick with my routine. It seems to be working and takes less time.
BTW, I'm not and never had been more than a 'recreational' athlete.
When I was training for a nationals cycling road race in 1988 I was measured at 77. No longer racing but I'm still doing local training rides. While they are increasingly getting more difficult for me, I'm still at a very high level of fitness compared to most everyone else my age. Never give up.
This channel has a ton of good information. I'm glad RUclips recommended it to me!
Rhonda, you explained VO2 Max perfectly. Understanding that one can have benefits from raising it from any level will help us. Thank you .
I am 66, and my Vo2max is in the top 2%. I have 3 disciplines: biking, yoga/Pilates, and sport climbing and I typically do10-12 weekly activities. Group bike rides are basically races. Hot Pilates or Yoga is a physical trial and I frequently approach climbing as a HIIT activity. I encounter participants in all of these activities who exhibit poor body conditioning in all these sports. They are frequently pretty overweight, and the reason is a lack of intensity. That said, whatever you do, it must be fun and a very big part of the fun for me is the competition and social interaction. My advice is that if you are not getting the improvements you want to improve conditioning, you should increase your intensity by adding a new activity or joining a group approaching their discipline with intensity at a level that you can do yet still challenges you (bike club rides are typically rated A,B,C,D). Meetup is a good source for these. As an aside, the groups that are hiking, such as the Capital Hiking Club in DC, move very quickly and the hill climbs are HIIT.
Overweight people ate too much food
my vo2 max sucks but I can still push 280 watts for 40 minutes xd
Super awesome!
I ride my bike at least 10 hours a week. I go HIIT on that when the conditions are good, which is often. I feel like my max has improved greatly since doing this.
See you in 34 years champ 💪
When my Apple Watch first started calculating and recording this, I was racing bikes & riding 4-6 days per week. I was in the high 50s, following a crash. I don’t have data from before, but I’m sure it was 60s. I didn’t know the data was in my health app. Later, mid-pandemic, I discovered the trend line in my phone and it was so scary. I’m an RN and I managed 48 C19 beds, so I had an 80-100hr work week for a year. It dropped to 35. I’ve since left the hospital environment, moved closer to trails again, resumed training… currently 43. I have a ways to go, but at least now I can SEE how my life events/choices affect my output in a very clinical way.
Makes sense. Read years ago in the lore of running that vo2max maxes out in 6 month of proper training and gets lost just as fast. I track all my data and can confirm it works like this for me. My Vo2max goes down to 35 after a year of no exercises and takes me 6 month to go to 60 with very disciplined training.
Debunking the 80-20 rule (as applied to regular people) was a wonderful insight
Yeah, people need to understand that most programs and method they read on internet are for athletes with huge training volumes to improves their already high level of fitness
@@Bumiround Tough when the 80 20 rule is advertised as *the* way for everyone
Im so encouraged to hear this. 5 years ago i was average as a male at 45 i had a vo2 of 38 average or below. Today at 50 i run a VO2 of 48-49 very good for men my age. Im working to achieve a 51 or better.
Good for you cj….Im 64 and tested @ 32 -above average. So of course this gives a starting point to go heigher.
@@bobwilliams9061 I don't know how you do it. I started running just as far as my body and brain would allow. Every day I forced myself to go further. After 21 days I went from 1 1/2 miles to 5 plus miles. 40 days every single day except Saturday. I can honestly say this. It saved my life.
@@bobwilliams9061 It's all about the brain. It wants you to feel comfortable. If you're ok bucking the brain you're in a fabulous place from what you said. Andrew Huberman which is how I found this page has a great neurological study on this that's about a hour but worth it
Always enjoy that she breaks it down for all to actually understand.
I used to train only in zone 4/5 for few years, this year I added zone 2 and lowered my high intensity work out and never had such a high vo2max.. I’m 43 years old and currently vo2max of 61
61 . . . That's bad ass :o)
I dont know exactly how to determine vo2 max ? shorter intense run tends to give higher vo2 max. but longer intense or even sub intense run gives low vo2 max.
Amazing
Over training and 61 is very very good
what are actual examples of Zone 2 workouts you do?@@paxundpeace9970
I’m working on Norwegian 4x4 regime now for a few weeks and already see positive results
Rhonda, have a look into descending ladder V02 intervals. Based on recent testing, they are the best version of V02 intervals. They are easier mentally and provide more time in zone, which is the ultimate goal. An example would be 1x4m 2x3m 2x2m 4x1m. That's 18min in zone. Use equal 1:1 rest for the 4min and 3min intervals, then do 1:2 rest (50%) time for the 2min and 1min intervals. As you fatigue the intervals get shorter. Most people are able to perform higher quality work with this protocol. More importantly, a majority of athletes get higher quality time in zone with this protocol. Give them a try. Also, don't be afraid to extend or shorten rest intervals as you go. Every athlete is different, even from day to day. The ultimate goal is time in zone. Taking an extra minute of recovery is better than bailing on the final intervals.
In what zone? Is this for zone 5?
@@hikerJohn Maximum aerobic speed +/- 5%. You have to spend as much time as possible in that zone to improve your VO2max. It will indeed imply zone 5 heart rate. Low zone 5 in the first rep, and close to max heart rate in the last one. as far as running goes, VO2 Max = 3.5 x Maximum aerobic speed.
@@bradbitt8007 I think you meant "maximal" . . . I do that now but just not as often as I would if I were younger. It's hard on the body and I need longer recovery now at 69 years old and I recover by either doing easy cross training or just long easy hikes. I have an "elite" vo2max but it came down to 41 from 50 after having the flue and then a lingering cough for two months. I got it on Halloween but when I hit my Max HR I start "wheezing" but I only took a total of 5 full days off from that cold or flu. Maybe I wont wheeze next time but it's gotten harder to even hit that maxHR running up that hill.
I dont think you have to chase the MHR, that might be too extreme. Science have shown that training at roughly 90% of your vo2max is most efficient for stimulation leading to adaptation while keeping recovery reasonable. Good bang for buck essentially. Its not strictly 90%, 93 or 95 is good but getting closer to tjat 100% increases recovery time.
@@TomSM5 Nice, Thanks for posting. Knowing this is good because we are more likely to do it. I try to hit 95% jogging up 5-6 hills on my 10 mile hikes. I did a 20 mile "easy" hike yesterday and tagged 90% a few times and was happy at how easy it was.
What if you do heavy resistance training plus a lot of zone 2 cardio, are you really missing out on anything by not doing HIIT too? I wonder because the heavy weightlifting sets get my heart rate up into max sprint territory anyways, so why do sprints again separately?
I went from a VO2 of 34 to 51 in a couple months training for a half marathon with no outside help or sources. Just listened to my body and went out for a run 5 days a week. My heart rate would go over 200 during some sessions but I found the most beneficial was running at a heart rate of 185BPM for 15-30 minutes, then the next day do an easy run.
Great video.
Cyclists that use Zone 2 typically train anywhere from 25 to 40 hours per week. You can't train in zone 5 for 40 hours per week. So one can understand why the 80:20 rule becomes important at this level of volume.
15-25 hrs is more accurate for elite pros. 9-15 hrs/wk is realistic for most serious cyclists with full time regular jobs. 25-40 hrs/wk is highly unusual, even among serious athletes.
Maybe if recovery is counted in the training hours 😂
Can you please explain how I can reconcile Peter Attia’s recommendation of spending 80% of our time in Zone 2 and your comment about 50% of our workout time doing HIIT. Thank you!
After doing zone 2 training for a year, I performed to Rockport walking test with poor results. I'm glad this info was shared and I that I need to improve my training. Just wish I had this information earlier.
Did you ALSO do zone 3, 4 and 5 training? If not THAT is your problem not that fact you were doing zone 2 training. And just what HR rang are you using for zone 2? How many hours? Who was coaching you? You need to have an 80/20 type of training. I'm 70 years old and only using 80/20 for two years and I just did a 30 mile hike on trails with over 3000 feet of elevation gain in 9 hours but you have to occasionally RUN up those hills in training to raise your aerobic threshold. When I'm running up hills it's only for an hour or less and when I'm doing zone 2 it's for 3-6 hours three times a week or 60 miles a week. I also add in Mountain trails and burn 7000+ calories on a day hike. I've never even been an athlete in my life but owned a construction company. Elite athletes train like this for YEARS and they do well over 100 miles a week. (Molly Seidel for example). If you still have aerobic deficiency watch the RUclips video "The Physiology Of Endurance" (two parts) posted 10 months ago on the channel "Evokeendurance"
I alternated zone2 (at 70% MHR) for a hour on a recumbent bike with walking for 2 miles on the other days. I would say my walking put me in zone3. It's really painful to run up hills or stairs. Looks like I need to devote more time and effort to my
workouts. Thanks for the info on that endurance video.@@hikerJohn
@@yzf5172zone2 is not 70% mhr. Thats garminsgeneric zone2. Useable Zone2 on a 1hr run is actually about 68-79% max heartrate. Or more importantly take your 50-60min race pace heartrate (lt2) and use 0.75-0.88 and customise your z2 on your watch for this. Most people are using zone2 wrong which is why they think it doesn't work. Cheers
@@yzf5172 Depending on what the pain is, the best cure is *usually* to do resistance exercise at the gym (or home gym). I suffered knee pain for a few years and hiking did not cure it but doing leg presses and leg extensions at the gym was like a miracle cure in just a few weeks. Hiking with weak quads is harmful to the knee due to a weak patella femoral tendon that keeps the knee in alignment. Took me a few years to figure this out. You might have something else but we have to search high and now for a solution but we first have to get a diagnoses.
@@yzf5172You are doing very good. It is very smart approach doing walking on one day and cycling the other.
Are you doing any strength or stability work? Try doing a 20-30 min class every week (you can find plenty on youtube) and do some of it on other days.
My best VO2 max was at 63 when I was 37 years old (it was probably better in my twenties but never calculated it then). Cross-country skiing and calisthenics HIIT training during the summer was the recipe for that.
Cross country skiing is the absolute greatest cardio sport ever. If you can get trained up to sustain cross country skiing, there’s no way around having a high VO2max
With regard to the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, it is misleading to say--as the Gibala graphic does--that the entire workout, including warmup and cooldown, is 25 minutes. The work/recovery portion of the workout adds up to 25 minutes (4 intervals of 4 minutes=16 minutes, plus 3 recoveries of 3 minutes=9 minutes). But the warmup before the first interval requires at least 5, and preferably 10, minutes. As the creators of the program (NTNU CERG) have stressed in various online videos and publications, the warmup is necessary to prepare the body for the intervals and to mildly elevate the heart rate. Add in a cooldown of 5 minutes or so, and you have a 40 minute session. I have frequently performed the protocol, and never completed the entire workout in less than 35 minutes. They also stress NOT performing each interval to complete exhaustion. It's too difficult and de-motivating to do so. Even when done in accordance with the CERG instructions, 4x4 is a pretty aversive protocol. It's very hard to stick with. I sometimes have dropped to 3-minute intervals. Just shaving a minute off each interval makes it somewhat less disagreeable. I compensate for the reduced time by adding a fifth set.
I use a 10 minute sauna to warm up pre-workout (& longer sauna post workout)
The norwegian Methode used by Ingebrigtsen and other runners includes some more rules like every reps or set need to be fast or at least as fast like the previous. This only possible for pro athlets
Thanks you! Rhonda, would you please cover CFS in future? Vigorous exercise is a no go for me with CFS..
you gotta hit that z4-z5 to push vo2max. Zone2 is so advertised by fitness influencers nowadays - what REALLY push your fitness is when you push the upper limits.
3 years ago my vo2max was 36 when i began running and now its 54.
What really kicked my vo2max in to gear was workouts like 10x400m sprints , 3x2K tempos , 8x1ks tempos.
Someone knows what he's talking about.
I’ve experienced the same. When I dropped to zone 2 my fitness level dropped as well. The only thing that increased was my injury rate.
@@joemikeska2657 how do you get injured from zone 2?
@@BigBADSTUFF69 calf muscle strain. I’m a minimalist/barefoot runner, and running at a slower pace actually creates more vertical movement and a harder impact. As soon as I pick the pace back up the strain is gone. My 5k times dropped by about 30 seconds/mile when I tried incorporating Z2 as well.
Even when I ran a marathon in 2019, my avg heart rate was 162 (max is 184). My body is just simply more adept at running at higher heart rates.
@@joemikeska2657 weird, but yeah I'm definitely not a zone 2 guy, I was a semi pro cyclist long ago and we did zone 2 on sundays with the kids on a rest day but even off season had climbing, people out there trying to say only do zone 2 like WTF?
Here is one thing to consider. The healthiest people, are going to be the ones who perform the best physically. Not saying that exercise doesn't definitely help your health, just that, to be an elite athlete, you need to start with excellent health and good genetics. My guess is that these high/elite athletes, would have a longer lifespan, even if they didn't exercise, compared to your average person. They are most likely starting with a better body and genetics. Let's face it, genetics it a HUGE factor in lifespan, more than any other factor including diet and exercise for sure.
Exactly, you are describing reverse causality. The people that start running in their 70s, probably didn't accumulate excessive joint degeneration or dementia. And their Vo2max would have been low before 70 and high after.
As someone who's done about 300h of cycling/yr in recent years, unless you're really special, you probably have two hard sessions in you per week. At most, 3, but if I do 3, I burn out fast and consistency is key.
And lower intensity exercise is important as it builds up mitochondrial density and what not in muscles, ie, it makes you much more efficient at low intensity. So both high and low matter. And if you only do high intensity, you plateau fast anyway. As all things, it's a balancing act.
Yes. The thing is to train easy (Z1 and 2) for the vast majority of the time and very hard (Z4 and 5) for maybe 10% to 15% of the time. The latter usually means one serious high intensity session per week, or at most two short sessions. Any more than that and the stimulus to fatigue ratio gets out of hand and you can’t recover. What you absolutely don’t want to do is spend a lot of time in zone 3.
Great point. Sufficient recovery as a tool seems to always be missing with exercise experts.
Great Video! I recently transitioned from below average to above average over the last 6 months. Mostly Zone 2. I think anyone starting as below average will see VO2max gains with zone 2. However once you get above average you will plateau without some kind of HIIT. Just started the 4x4 once a week, after this video I might also throw in another variation. My goal isn’t an endurance athlete. General health would suffice.
I was thinking the same thing. What is your routine? I was thinking 4 days a week of zone 2 endurance on the bike for 60 minutes each session and one day of HIIT. I’m just looking for overall longivity
I'm so glad you shined a light on the "non-responder" issue when it comes to Zone 2 training. There seems to be a fanaticism that Zone 2 will work, and if it's not working, you're not doing it right or not doing it enough. I've given it an honest try and I've just been getting embarrassingly slow. It's relieving to know that there was nothing wrong with me, I just have to do something else.
It can take ~10 years grinding before seeing results. Every runner need zone2 running. But the less you run the less you need it..
Whenever there's a mention of zone 2 not working on certain individuals, some run-always-slow-80-20 hardliner comes out saying you should be patient, you need to do it for 1000 years 🤣
@@RaoBlackWellizedArmanI did opposite to defend it. I said the less you run (example) the less zone 2 you need. But to say that zone 2 is not needed or benefitial to build aerobic base is also ignorant. We need both. You don't build aerobic base in red zone. Thats the conclusion. I can add that so many think they run zone 2 but they are in zone 3 or even 4. People buy sport watches for 1000€ but refuse to go to a lab to find out their real numbers. 😂
@@RaoBlackWellizedArmanExcept Doctor Phil Maffetone has decades of research and many long distance runners data collection that proves it works😉
A big misconception is only zone2... however there should be a zone3 wkly effort 88-95% of lt2 in even a base phase. 20-60min in Zone3 as part of an 70-80min run works (88-95% of lt2 or essentially 79-86% of true max.hr). The sweetspot is around 9hrs a wk of z2 & 1hr z3.
Not mentioned is the theory that VO2max is related to basil heart rate variability which can be measured using an accurate heart rate monitor. Higher variability is associated with higher VO2max. (See study conducted by Polar that is the source of the data driving their VO2max test app).
People . . . You that say zone 2 is not working . . .You need all the zones!
You need:
Zone 1-2 for both aerobic and for recovery
Pick-ups (a few10 second HIT interspersed in Zone 1-2)
High Intensity Continuous Workouts (Zone 3)
Tempo training
Progressive Distance Workouts (60 minutes or up to 2 hrs)
HIIT (hill sprints, bike, rowing etc) (every 6-10 days depending on your condition)
That's interesting you mention HIIT every 10 days. I get chronic fatigue when I do them once every week, but maybe basing my training on a non weekly schedule might help.
Thank god for this video! I am a commited exerciser and been looking to how much time I should spend on high intensity workout as I have a race to compete in in 3 weeks time 😅
6:40 I'd have liked to see studies supporting the contention that for anyone exercising 3-5 times a week half of the sessions should be VO2max training. That advice is quite a bit different to what I've seen elsewhere.
This makes a lot of sense to me. I’m 58 and in the very low VO2 range. I suffered from a hormonal issue for 15 years that greatly damaged my cardiovascular system, combined with a sedentary job. Last year, I had surgery that cured my condition, and started working out - walking, then running, then hiking. It helped, but only got me into the “low” range. But most of my cardio was Zone 1 or low Zone 2, very rarely pushing myself hard. I’m concerned about my long-term health, so I’m looking for ways to make considerably more progress in cardio health. I should add here that I injured myself (achilles tendonitis) a few months ago on a week-long hike, so I haven’t been able to run since, and numbers have been falling. Sigh.
What hormone were you low in? And also have you considered stem cell and bpc157?
@@carlvonfuckwits2934 It was actually high, not low! Aldosterone, which is made by the adrenal glands, and regulates blood pressure, sodium/potassium balance, and a number of other things. The illness is called primary aldosteronism, and it is usually (but not always) caused by a benign tumor in an adrenal gland that overproduces the hormone, and ignores the brain’s signals to stop. In my case, when I was finally diagnosed, I was 10x over normal maximum levels. I spent 15 years with impossible to control high blood pressure, and dangerously low potassium. No meds solved any of it. When I was finally diagnosed, I went on spironolactone, and my blood pressure dropped 20 points, while my potassium hit the low end of “normal”. I felt like I could punch and elephant! After 8 months of complex testing (like having blood drawn from both adrenal glands simultaneously), I was declared a candidate for surgery. My left adrenal gland was removed with extreme prejudice. Since then, my blood pressure and potassium levels are both normal, and I was also unexpectedly cured of another chronic condition that I had assumed would require laser surgery treatments multiple times a year for the rest of my life!
Aldosteronism is grossly underdiagnosed, thanks to how doctors are taught. It is considered a rare, even exotic condition - a zebra rather than a horse, as my spouse puts it. So they don’t even look for it - they treat the blood pressure and potassium issues with normal regimens, except the normal regimens don’t work. My surgeon treats dozens of cases per year, and thinks it is the cause of 5-10% of all severe high blood pressure. This is the mainstream view among his peers who treat it. If they’re right, that means aldosteronism kills 30-60,000 people per year in the US - numbers that rival car crashes, suicide, and common cancers. And it’s easy to diagnose with a $200 blood test, and can be treated with medication or cured with surgery in most cases. (I told my surgeon I thought he’d added 10 years to my life, and he said “Probably, at least ten years”). So, I rant about it a lot. :)
Hope that it gets better often foam rolling keeps mobility. Try sports that don't put that much stress on it like cycling but keep up walking and bit of hiking if possible and pain free.
He careful with the amount of elevation on your hikes or runs.
Achilles injuries..even just tendinitis..take a long time to recover fully from. I’m following the protocols (regular 2 finger massage..gentle stretching, etc)..but progress is ‘painfully’ slow. After a good month plus..I’m still feeling pain upon awakening from sleep - in particular. Maybe there’s something I can add that will help. Need to get back to senior softball in 3 months fully recovered.
Used to play football/soccer three times a week. Which is by far the best high intensity workout that I enjoy.
Unfortunately I've had a medial deltoid ligament strain which doesn't seem to be healing one year on so unable to run at the moment.
I do cycle, and have a concept 2 rower so I guess I'll just have to use that to increase my VO2 max.
Great video, tons of useful and important information packed into this one.
Using Vo2 max as the one and only fitness metric seems kinda weird. It's true that Zone 2 training is not enough to see significant improvements to your Vo2 max but it's insane to think that it would not improve your cardiovascular fitness.
I run 4 times a week, so I don't have any problem working on my VO2max but I don't buy this. Most of the long lived people I've heard of or I met in person never ran in their lives and I bet their V02max was average. I also question how they determine the amount of years you could gain by increasing your VO2max. How do you really control for that?
Its all personal option and may not be true!
Good vid. My problem with too high % intense training is injury risk. I see both zone 2 CV and slow twitch conditioning (all muscles, joints, meridians) as the investment that pays for the intensity of sport. At my age.
For me, injury has been a bigger hit on performance and health than not reaching that dream of an extra few mmol VO2max.
Add a completely different activity to your training. Running and swimming or cycling or yoga.
You are right injuries are a huge hit to maintaining fitness but most injuries are repetitive injuries.
Just a thought
Chronic fatigue too. For me doing HIIT for many trading cycles makes be burn out. I now only do zone 2 and was able to keep training consistently. Vo2max over 60 and in my 40s, no high intensity at all.
@purpleblueunicorn sorry to hear that happened but 60 is really good now so seems to be working for you.
Personally I wouldn't want to completely exclude higher intensity work after recovered. It's a case of use it or lose it with power / strength / conditioning.
@@tonyrabone4668 it's very hard to lose muscle even if you train endurance. Lance Armstrong for example is a bigger cyclist and can't become skinny like all climbers. I'm the same, after over 10 years of no strength training, I'm still a muscular cyclist and can still close a #1 COC gripper (140lbs). Even over 80yo can gain muscle by strength training.
@purpleblueunicorn that's great for you. I also don't struggle with laying down and retaining muscle. I guess its in our DNA. However, I do lose strength, power and agility. Sprinting, cutting, throwing, climbing etc.
Thank you - my first 100kms incoming and this was so helpful 🙏🏻
12 min Cooper VO2 test - Distance (m) -504.9 / 44.73 =VO2 max estimate
21.01 x D (km)12 - 11.04
Thanks Doc. I've been doing mostly strength training for old age survival. A bit of MAF cardio, but I've been testing out my VO2 max ... indirectly, by monitoring my oxygen levels with a pulse oximeter.
At 69, I know I've lost some capacity and if I do some sprint type work on my Bowflex Max trainer, I seem to get better weight training results.
Like, initially, my levels are around 95% or so. After about 16 minutes, with several hard 30 second HIT stepping, the oxygen gets to 98% and STAYS higher for a while, and it seems that more oxygenated blood helps immensely with heavy lifting.
I've also noticed just better general fitness, so I'm stepping up my game now in that area.
All due to YOU.... thanks so much for this important additional metric. Running is out now , due to psoriatic arthritic knees, but I can pound the Bowflex, and the extra HIT intervals really help.
Zone 2 is fine for health and the ability to go further and longer. Most people will be fine with that. Athletes looking to increase VO2 max definitely need to push harder in the HIIT mode. 80/20 steady state to high intensity seems to be the recommended mix for them.
Yes and n. Training in Zone 2 is grade foe cardio and general fitness and has a low risk of injury but is it tough enough to go along with life has to over?
@@paxundpeace9970 Tadej Pogacar managed to win the Tour de France training like that so I’d guess so
I tried doing 4x4 twice a week for ~2 months or so, and I experienced chest pains and was told by a doctor that I had high blood pressure. 4x4 once a week is fine for me though
I am a zone 2 non-responder. I was a sprinter and have always struggled to improve my 2-mile run time (Army). Training harder works. I would like to see a study on this because I assume people with good power/speed genetics are the majority of the non-responders to zone 2 training.
How much volume do you consistently do? Zone 2 alone assumes 7+h per week, I'd say. Probably also depends on the sport.
There is no way a normal person can do 7 hours of zone 2 AND other training AND have a life. And if I got no improvement out of 2-3 hours/week it is hard to imagine I would magically start responding with more. But I can not train at all and still sprint, vertical leap, powerclean a shitload of weight, etc. Genetics giveth and taketh.@@pierrex3226
Hello mate. I spent years doing regular 3-5 mile runs and got frustrated with my times. What broke my plateau was doing one interval session a week, one sprint session a week and one long job (ten miles at a snail pace) a week in addition to my normal 3-5 mile runs. That got me a sub 40-minute 10K.
I agree with @pierrex3226 and @goodyeoman4534. If you want to improve your time for anything over 1500 meters, I'd recommend slowly increasing your weekly total volume of running mileage. Run over 75% of your miles at Zone 2 to help prevent injury. If you can increase your weekly volume to over 25 miles/week (and idealy over 40 miles/week), your times will certainly start going down. Jack Daniels book "Running Formula" provides comprehensive data and strategies for elite and recreational runners.
I’ve been thinking about exactly this all day. So glad you shared this.
I’m 65 with a VO2 Max around 45-47. I’ve had a hard time hitting 48. My goal is 50. I ride my bike 250 miles a month, mostly on a wind trainer for consistency. I like to workout 10 miles a day, mostly power zone 2 with some zone 4/5 thrown in…probably a 90/10 ratio. When I try to go over that I feel sick. I find shorter daily rides work best for me. I take off 4-5 days at the end of the month with a 5-10 mile ride on the middle day, just to keep my VO2 from falling. I started with a VO2 Max of 38.
Dang! Putting me to shame at 64. I just tested at 32.6. The blessing is it gives you a baseline to move forward from. If you’re shooting for 50 then so am I!
1.5 mile run test is good too. I think Dr. Cooper was involved with that too.
Yes, I remember this well from the 80’s.
Zone 2 is still great for vo2 max, you just have to do more of it, 2.5 hours a week is not nearly enough. It works great for me, as soon as I do vo2 max work I'm dead for the next 2 days!, and if I did it again after 2 days, I'd be dead for 4 days... etc. Zone 2 is just more sustainable for me.
Do what you can recover from maybe do V02 max every other week with threshold or sweetspot in between.
Vo2 legit every two days is too much. If you understand, zone 2 vo2 benefits can occur over time but require VOLUME, BUT there's a low ceiling to it's impact on vo2 adaptive benefits. Set up a protocol of adequate recovery from vo2 sessions. Ice bath after, Epsom salt soaks few days later. Adequate rest and active recovery zone work. There's nothing wrong of feeling beat up worked from true vo2 work. That's the point
I train vo2max or threshold 2 times a week while running, the rest is in zone 2 or even lower - swim, bike, gym. You can recover from it if you don't overdo, it should be short and painfull, 1x10min with 1 min rest or recovery@vo2max speed while running for me - sometimes it only lasts for 40-50min with warmup and warmdown, 1x1,2x2, 3x3,2x2,1x1 tempo or some kind of fartlek training, rest is 1h@150w hometrainer, higher cadences, 1h swim etc. Tried for 6months only zone 2 training, went great, didn t get injured, had great energy but lost a lot of top end speed in running and biking, however I had an ironman coming so I went all in for endurance and it paid off. Trying something different this winter (80/20)
2 and half hours if you don't include your daily walking and cycling or commutes can be quite a lot.
Would equate to two 45 minute and one hours workout quite a lot for many.
It is a very good base at 6 minute kilometer pace that's about 25 kilometers a week.
If you think zone 2 is enough to raise your VO2 max, you don't have a very high VO2 max. It will only raise it if yours is low. You can't get to athlete VO2 max levels with zone 2. Just not possible.
I was riding my bike a few hours a day because of my job (zone 1/2) and I thought it should keep me decently fit. Nope. I suspect my Vo2 Max plummeted. Sure, being sedentary would have been way worse, and I'm sure I'm highly fat-adapted because of it, but no amount of light activity will ever replace the good old spitting out of your lungs.
Then it is time on the weekend to spend do some work like longer bike rides or short hikes for the start.
Strength work in the gym is a kalorie killer too, more muscle does need a lot of energy.
Don't leave out cardio either 10 minutes walking on a treadmile and 10 minutes on the eliptical are good for a start but can be more later.
Good luck.
Would be great if you could had chapters in the videos! Good one 👍
Writing this before having watched the video. Increasing vo2 max is very straightforward. Just do long duration steady state cardio combined with some intense cardio workouts, say 2 intense workouts per week and 3 steady state. So a polarized training plan.
If you have less time then stick to doing all your cardio workouts intense. No point doing low intensity steady state if you are not doing enough of it.
@Dr Rhonda Could we please have a laymen-remedial Video to explain VO2 max examples in several different ways? While I enjoy the high-caliber conversations VO2 Max escapes me.
Thanks for charts within your dialogue
Very interesting indeed. Thanks Dr Patrick for encapsulating these studies and your own analysis.
A masters competitive swim workout will do the trick. Swimmers consistently have elevated VO2 Max because breathing has to be regulated while doing interval sets that all swimming workouts are composed of. I know many would never want to swim competitively, but even going to a US Masters workout will give you what you are looking for. I did a stress test on a treadmill at age 61 and the doctor told me I did better than 50% of the 30 year olds he tests. It works.
Of course zone 2 cardio is not enough, no one ever said it was . . . that's why athletic coaches use an 80/20 method of heart rate training. When someone says something is not working and you have to do something else . . . yeah, your probably doing it wrong or your goals do not match your training methods. The biggest stimulus to increase the aerobic capacity of muscle fiber is *glycogen depletion* so you have to do that but only 20% of your workouts. You cannot train every day in too low of a HR zone and eat gells and expect to get results because you are not depleting your glycogen. You can increase VO2 max with HIIT faster but you will not train the slow twitch muscle fiber that's needed for endurance using too much HIIT. Too much HIIT and not enough Zone 2 and you will have Aerobic Deficiency Syndrome. Too much HIIT and no zone 2 and you might be a sprinter but you wont be able to run far. Some people cannot increase their VO2 MAX because they are already at a high level but they can and need to increase there mitochondria volume of the slow twitch muscle . . . The title of this video is a form of straw-man clickbait. And making *associations* to say you will live longer is just wrong. Training for a marathon or ultra marathon is totally different than training for a 200M and age makes a difference as to what you should train for as well. Sprinters do not do and do not need to do a lot of zone 2 workouts. Ask yourself WHY you are training the way you are training . . . .
If you want to get your brain wrapped around this watch the YT video "The Physiology Of Endurance" (two parts) posted 10 months ago on the channel "Evokeendurance"
Thanks for this, I am a natural athletic sprint individual but struggle with long distance (cardio/lactic acid). I have been hammering HIIT for years but neglected this slow twitch muscle fibres. Need to step up my zone 2 . Thanks
@@jthomas4361look up Arthur Lydiard and what he managed to achieve with Peter Snell. Snell had a reasonable 24sec 200m ability when they 1st started. Ended up down to 22.2 200m ability...but also 1:44-1:46 800m on grass which is just mind bending good 60yrs ago. Snell did tons of zone2 in his base phase. On the hills/undulating he'd have been in Zone3 (sub threshold spikes but still under lt2).
Full useable zone2 easy & steady = your lt2 x 0.75-0.88 . This range will help your endurance alot. 1 run a wk hit a sub threshold (zone3) 88-95% of your lt2 heartrate. Lt2 of course being your 50-60min fresh race intensity.
Yeah she addressed this at 6:50. Thanks for not contributing.
@@anonymousperson167 So because we agree you say I'm not contributing??? Did you say that to all the other comments? The title assumes people are doing all Zone 2 so I'm reinforcing the fact that no one ever said they should and why they should not and I gave a reference to a better video that explains WHY.
She said a lot that I did not address and I said things she did not address or I put it in different words. At least I took the time to actually say something that's useful chump.
Calm down weirdo
Some of the VO2max results seem somewhat surprising since one limiting factor for VO2max is heart pump volume and an exceptionally high VO2max should be associated with an enlarged heart, which you would expect to lower life expectancy at some point. It seems a useful question to ask how to improve VO2max from the mitochondrial side without necessarily increasing heart volume. I always assumed that the short interval training improvements to VO2max were at least partly from repeatedly putting high pressure on the heart chambers and then releasing them to increase heart volume, risking some amount of heart tissue scarring etc.
Great point! I would believe the health benefits are mostly due to reverse causation since Vo2max can be mostly maxed out in 6 month so those that can keep a high value are a healthy bunch.
More than that would be diminishing returns or excess stress on the heart, atrial fibrillation happens to a lot of cyclists that do intervals. More zone 2 would also allow you to sustain a higher percentage of Vo2max without necessarily raising it.
The question begs whether VO2 Max is the driver of the reported health benefits or whether it is a proxy for other lifestyle factors which accompany it in individuals with higher VO2 max.
Very likely. I have a friend who has a relatively good vo2 max bec he plays hockey a lot, but, his dietary habits, genetic risk factors and bodyweight basically nullify the longevity benefits of his vo2. He's a rarity imo bec the discipline it takes for consistent vo2 work is usually accompanied by discipline in other lifestyle areas, esp diet, smoking, rest, stress mgmt etc
VO max can be a confunder because high VO2 max can be indicative of a more healthy lifestyle no smoking less drugd or alcohol or general high fitness that allows for more workout options.
Higher Life expectancy is not only cause be high VO2 max but by other Faktors or less risky behaviour like less smoking.
I think it's reverse causality at play. Being able to raise your vo2max requires a healthy body. Just like grip strength, one foot standing test or raising yourself without arms are considered indicators of longevity, but also of a healthy body without excessive joint degeneration.
When you give time between the raising of your heart bpm, like, staying 1 or 2 or 3 minutes in each tenths ( 120/130/140/150), your body get acclimated and it requires less effort to accompany the raising of your workload (exercise effort)
So you can go further and longer, I must say, without the acid latic noticably kicking in
This can preserve the body and its quite healing for the system
The cool down should be something similar too, getting down without a huge change in effort (say a level 15 in elliptical goes to a sudden 2) and sustaining a couple of minutes in each significant mark for you (160/150/140/120)
I know sometimes we dont have time for it, but when we do, I highly encourege we all do it
Drastic changes are what tear down the body (once in a while prolly ok)
That's interesting info. Thank-you. I ran 16km five days ago, day off, Ran 8km (upper zone 3,) a day off, then my Garmin gave me an interval session of 6min hard, 3min recovery, x3. But I didn't hit the lap button to start the interval session, (didn't know that.) till after 40min of low zone 3, which my HRM called warm up. (My average sortie is 6km a shot.) It was my CBT coach several years ago, who put me onto aerobic and CV training. (I used to be morbidly obese.)
What studies are there around other protocols? I'm currently hammering 2.5m/2.5m on/off @ FTP/Z1.
Please look into Zone two non responders, I think they are mistaking zone one for zone two leading to a non responder problem.
Good to see Rhonda is still going strong with solid information after my first video of hers on Micronutrient smoothies
I've never officially tested for my VO2 max on any machines but I can roughly gauge my cardiovascular progress by how fast i recover back to normal breathing after running 400m sprints or even laps in the pool. It used to take me at least a full minute to stop panting. Nowadays, it takes me no more than 10 seconds to catch my breath and have my heart rate come down to normal. Even though I'll still wait at least an extra minute to restart my sprint again just like I would during weight lifting. My cardiovascular threshold has somewhat surpassed the strength in my legs to go any faster so I have to run over a longer distance and time to get to that max heart rate and really lose my breath and fully utilize the oxygen in every muscle.
Rule of thumb is, I'll do lower intensity (zone 2 runs or long brisks walks) over longer periods of time (within 40 minutes - under 1 hour) but if i go hard, i’ll keep it short and sweet (within 15 minutes) Our body wants a sweet spot doing just enough of everything it needs. Over-do it and you're headed for injuries, under and you won't get the effects on a cellular level. Like how the dosage is the poison for things we consume, it's also imperative to get the dosage right for the cure, for it to work. BOTH fast twitch and slow twitch muscles are just as important to maintain. It gets better and better once you're adapted. I would never trade my body for my teenage self. (I'm past mid-30s now) That's how i know I'm on the right track. I'm not decimating my spine with years of ego lifting or running for hours on end and messing with my adrenals.
There's a stress level that is beneficial until it's not anymore and starts to turn around and bite us in the ass and the diminishing returns start to stack up. The key is to find that goldilocks ratio spread out over the week. For our cardio, resistant weight training, deep active stretching and explosive plyometrics for a well-rounded strength, endurance, flexibility and agility. Of course, nutrition and rest plays a huge role to recover fast from every workout. That's a body we can thrive in and enjoy the returns for all the work we're putting in daily over decades. The ultimate goal is to allow our routine to be sustainable enough to withstand the test of time and discipline into our centenarian years for true longevity, possessing a highly functional physical body and mind to lead a quality life.
I agree, This is a good post. I'm always trying to find the Goldilocks Ratio and at 70 years old it's important to not overdo it but I'm still finding PB's a getting faster at the tempo sessions. The best thing Ive started doing is going to the gym and working those tendons that are the most vulnerable. Not trying to put on any show muscles. It's always the tendons that get hurt and they are the slowest to recover and can sideline you for months
Yes I've met someone around your age recently who told me he used to lift as heavy as humanly possible when he was young for over 30 years and now he's suffering the consequences of it. Shoulders have lingering injuries that never healed which resulted in Osteoarthritis. I think people who like doing long distances (etc running and cycling for hours and hours) will suffer in the later stages of their life as well. People injure themselves because they don't bulletproof the "mobile areas" (our shoulders, elbows, wrists, spine, knees, hips, ankles etc) and workout too much in a linear manner with loads that are too heavy too soon. We don't move that way in real life and it does not help hedge a fall. The joints and cartilage stability and strength must match up with the muscle gains. Muscles are our body armor because it helps to soak up glucose like a sponge and most people are under-muscled, which is also one of the key reasons why people start to have so much metabolic issues cause they can't even metabolize properly.
Atrophying of our muscles would be the first steep slope of everything going downhill because it helps us in so many ways on a cellular level. Most doctors don't link diseases to the amount of muscle-fat ratio we carry but it affects key problems like insulin resistance and even brain volume. You may not need big muscles for show, but you need to make sure you don't carry a large percentage of visceral fats on your body and a good muscle mass ratio to be able to use them. Some can't even flex their glutes or quads cause they've never been activated! Your protein intake is also super important and key for protein synthesis apart from resistance weight training to maintain or grow muscle mass. When you're young(er) 30g of protein is sufficient to trigger leucine for protein synthesis, but as you grow older you almost need to double that amount to ensure you hit the minimum requirement each meal for muscles to actually grow or at least be maintained.
You can check out Dr Donald Layman, he's around your age and is a protein expert and his mentee Dr Grabrielle Lyon talks about muscle-centric importance in all of her podcasts as well. Hope you find something that works for you. Everyone is different, it's really all about finding your OWN goldilocks ratio with self-awareness and trial-and-errors. The fact that you're still on a learning curve at 70 means you've accumulated a wealth of it already compared to most folks and peers your age. Every new decade is something to discover and readjust again so have fun on your journey and enjoy the process! @@hikerJohn
I am a smoker 39 year old and after wearing a smartwatch (samsung galaxy 5) I found out my VO2 max was "very poor" at 32.5 or something.
I have been doing 5-6 km runs once a week and shorter but faster runs since then every week (6 months now) but the watch still tells me I am at 35 which is "Poor" VO2 max.
Obviously my smoking doesn't help but what else could be holding back my Vo2 max going above 40?
1. smarwatch isn't realiable giving VO2 max information
2. stop smoking
3. watch the video again and take notes!
@@serias4022 Thanks I will keep that in mind about the smartwatch and try to follow your other advice.
Doc，When it comes to VO2Max and Zone 2, what do you think of "Aerobic Deficiency Syndrome"?
Excellent video! Great information! Thank you!
Can you do these VO2 workouts on the bike or does your heart rate not get high enough?
What do studies indicate on people like me? I increased my VO2 max from 31 to 50 seven years ago. I’m a runner now. But I can’t seem to manage my food intake. I still love to eat!! At 59, my VO2 max is holding at 47 and it doesn’t look like I’m going to change my eating habits.
Hi, in regards to your “Low Fitness” commentary in relation to heart disease and smoking, this is a remarkable framework that I’ve never heard before, and profoundly important. (3:10min mark). How are you defining “Low Fitness”?
Lower than average Vo2max. There's a block plot in one of the studies showing the Vo2max ranges per decade of age.
How do I measure this ❓ I just got this recommended by youtube. I am a new runner. Average heart rate: 145 on 8:30 min per mile 125 on 10 min miles. I usually run 40-50 miles per week.
This is legit. As a “casual exerciser,” it’s good to know that I can-and should-push it
Zone 2 is perfect for me at my age ‘ I never liked intense exercise ‘ even in my younger days ‘ plus I do weight training ‘ not to intense’ which is a good combo
Hence, becoming fitter will remarkably increase health and longevity, but becoming really unfit (out of shape) will remarkably deteriorate health and longevity. It's remarkable that the samples were large enough to control for CV disease, smoking, and diabetes. What do the data show for the correlation between being Unfit (i.e., very low VO2Max for one's age) and BMI? Is it comparable?
Thanks Doc, I was looking for something like this. Very helpful
It's odd to hear you use the term "interval" to mean the work phase of interval training. My understanding of "interval" in common English, as well as the origin of the concept of "interval training", is that instead of a single, prolonged high-effort session, training is broken by intervals. I.e. "interval" literally means the interruption-the rest / recovery gap-between high-intensity / work states. It's jarring on the language sensibilities having to mentally re-interpret the meaning. I wonder if anyone else experiences this reversed use of "interval" as a little distracting?
Aside from this, as always, very informative and useful references to the research. Thank you.
In the chart at 3:42, I'd have loved to see a 5th group for us time-challenged folk of low volume-high intensity.
Hello Rhonda - any metrics we can take to measure if we are having success on training - more around blood or mitochondria health. I'd like to explore those metrics - add some more training for 6 months and then re-measure
Im 38 with VO2 max of 52. Have been on a garmin training plan for past 12 weeks to get me to a half marathon PB. Training includes approx 50km training per week, 6 days per week and mostly zone 2 split 80/20. Garmin tells me my training lacks anaerobic training, even factoring in the speed workouts it tells me to do. Im just going to ride it out for the remainder of plan and pick up more anaerobic impacting training after my half marathon.
Is there an actual study comparing the effects of using the norwegian 4x4 vs 1min on 1min off protocol? Interested to see the difference and modify my workout accordingly
Im an avid 53 yo cyclist. I feel strong on the bike and have more energy and strength than when I was in my 20s. My garmin device says my vo2 max is 77. Im not sure if this is very accurate but I suppose its a good benchmark to use going forward when using this garmin device. I should note I ride primarily group rides with a lot of high intensity efforts along with easier efforts when socializing on these rides. I have more time in Zone 4 and 5 than in zone 2
Do you know what's your ftp? 77 is extremely high, and your be smoking all the friends. maybe if you ride without power Garmin things you're not drafting and over estimating. Also if your Vo2max is that high, you must be riding s lot, and it would be impossible to have most of this time in Z4/5
What i miss out on that video a little, but maybe thats due to concerns for the audience not going deep enough is that VO2Max ist very dependant on the sports you`re doing. e.g. VO2Max might be lower at distance runners, because Running Economy is a huge factor in running, but not so much in cyclcing. LOean mass, expecially muscle can increase the VO2MAX without providng more benefit and then theres VO2Peak which play also a factor. Very good video and as i said, comprehensive and not overloading the audience.
Pretty sure muscle mass would decrease Vo2max since it's calculated with weight in the denominator. As a cyclist, it's very important to not have big muscles and bigger chest and biceps will only give me a bigger denominator in the Vo2max equation with zero added power.
It seems this clears up or improves upon peter attia in a way I needed to hear as I am a ten hour or less exercise person and love crossfit
1:00 this seems to suggest that if you are in the normal CRT range, you really only benefit if you lift yourself to the “better-than-normal” range (c 3 years incremental life expectancy vs c 1 year). That makes some intuitive sense.
i do not have access to a track so i need to use a treadmill. i have seen that can be valid if i set elevation to 1. your thoughts?
Each of my runs last 1.3 to 2.0 hours, up hill mostly. I do this 3 to 4 timex per week, and spend at least 3 days per week strength training. This is done every week, 7 days per week.
I’m 46 and have a 49.5 vo2 max. I’m a runner and have been trying to watch what I eat. I’m not a great runner or a great athlete. I try to exercise and stay fit.
Thanks for the information. I do HIIT this way: 45 secs exercise & 15 secs break giving me 1 minute per exercise and this is done between 30 mins to 1hr allowing me to do around 25-45 HIIT workouts per session, targeting the whole body per session. I do boxing, Running, HIIT & Spinning as my cardio exercises. Boxing is really great for VO2 Max. It tires you out faster than sprinting.
What I have learned (without tech & deep Scientifics) is that your body will speak to you on what it needs, and all you need to do is listen to it, and work on the areas that need improvement, so that your body gets the right workouts to be in sync & to achieve optimum performance.
Science & gadgets help us track what we do & how well we do it, but can become confusing & overwhelming. There is a time to push your limits to see how you have improved, there is a time to refrain from doing that. Your body will speak to you and you can move from there.
Goals work well with anti-goals. Goal = what you want & an anti-goal = what you don't want. You achieve both of them simultaneously.
It is wise to take the advice of others as it will help you avoid a lot of unnecessary injuries, time, and other setbacks.
Training your body is a marathon, not a sprint. Patience & wisdom are the keys that lead to many achievements in life.
I am 51 and my VO2 max is at 48. I have started to slowly add a higher intensity interval training once every 4-5 workouts. I don’t look at it as a weekly idea, but after I do my shorter easier run for my rotation in the week then I hit my interval workout during the next session. I am hoping I can improve my VO2 max to a 52.
Best of luck in your endeavors!
Easier to lose a bit of weight if you can. Vo2max will grow automatically.
How does this research support or dispute what Peter Attia said on your podcast re: zone 2 exercise?
I'm so sick of only hearing about all this zone 2 and threshold training. For me it never worked. I became a sub 4 min mile runner doing fast intervals... 200m reps, 300m reps, 400m reps. Very little mileage and very few threahold runs. Lots of sessions at 400m race pace, 800m pace, 1500m pace and sometimes 5km pace. Classic Frank Horwill 5 tier training principals.to quote Peter Coe "lots of long slow running creates long slow runners."
Thanks for highlighting the benefits of HIIT!!
I’ve always trained at about 80%, was raised before zone 2 was a thing. In the past few years I’ve tried zone 2 and honestly didn’t see any benefit at all, in fact it made me slower and caused leg injuries from changing my natural gait. Now I’m back to mostly 80% (threshold pace) with sprint training weekly. At 52, according to Garmin my VO2 is 49. I’ll stick with higher intensity training.
Nice! I use Garmin Forerunner 235 for running. I've also found Zone 2 does not help increase VO2Max, but I find Zone 2 running at least 70% of my weekly mileage helps prevent injury and prevent burnout (46 yo). If I do tempo of VO2Max workouts more than 1-2 days/week, I will certainly get an overuse injury within 4-6 weeks. Zone 2 is really helpful for building your aerobic base--like the foundation that you can build VO2Max workouts on top of. The changing of gait with Zone 2 is something I've struggled with also; I've found that run-walking works better for Zone 2 or recovery runs bc then I I can maintain good running form; when that becomes tedious I mix in stationary bicycle for Zone 2. In the end, I'd stick with what you know works for you. I've never acquired a VO2 Max over 46, so you inspired that I can break VO2Max of 50 in the next five years!
It has been proven again and again that a good combination of different intensities with lots of low intensity training is better than training in one zone only. This is no new fad, this is accumulated knowledge since the 1960s! Whether 80/20 is optimal for you or another ratio is another thing, but you leave progress on the table going 80% only.
About your gait: many people struggle at first when they run slower than normally. But this doesn't mean it's a bad thing to run slowly, it means they haven't developped the skill of running slowly. But developping this skill helps you at higher paces because it improves efficiency. This, too, is not controversial anymore but has been used since the 60s. "Zone 2 only" training like Maffetone is controversial, but not the benefits of spending much time in this zone.
@@TheSandkastenverbot again, I have trained in zone 2, and I lost performance in almost every measure: slower sprints, slower 5k, slower 10 mile.
There are always outliers. For instance, based on my age my max heart rate should be 168, but in reality that is my lactate threshold. My measured max HR is 185. My most first and only marathon I held a 162 heart rate average and finished in under 4 hours.
There are always outliers.
I’m was an interval runner for many years and sometimes cross training with weight based training, my V02 max during this time was in the exceptional bracket. I switched my training CrossFit and my V02 reduced to average, not sure if this is due to adaptations slowly occurring or just that the previous exercise regime was just better ?
I'd say a mixture of the old regime being better and possibly the old regime made it easier fo whatever was measuring/estimating your VO2max to do it accurately. I've always found the intervals have helped with vo2max, but long (~2hr), fairly hard, tempo runs even better for building V02max. I think those sessions are also quite good for sports watches to estimate it as they have a known distance, time, climb, pace, weight and heart rate to work with.
What was your interval training?
Also your watch algorithm might have changed!!
Interval or Zone 3 Training needs to be done to maintain a high VO2 max it will decrease noticeable after 4 to 6 weeks.
I am doing PNOE metabolic testing in North San Diego to help test and not guess how individuals need to train with a personalized program then retest every three months to update and course correct