I forgot to mention: In compound words you use the ending for the LAST word part so eg. ruokapöytä - you would use pöytä to determine the ending -> ruokapöydässä vs in syyskuu you would use kuu to determine the ending -> syyskuussa :D
This was sooo helpful! Thank you so much. I was stuck with the pronunciation of ä compared to a. And knowing one is at the front and the other at the back is like a lightbulb moment for me. Thank you!
As an English speaker, the front, back thing is a pretty good guide to how different vowels are pronounced. But I think it's easier to think of them as not occurring in the same word so as not to confuse one with the other, especially since they can change the meaning slightly.
"-lyysi" on "suometettu" pääte-laina (-lysis), joka viittaa hajottamiseen (ana-lyysi, dia-lyysi, elektro-lyysi, etc.), joka toimii yhdyssananomaisesti ja varmaankin siksi seuraa yhdyssanasääntöjä. Sama pätenee -nääri-liitteeseen (-nary), miljo-nääri (miljoonahenkilö), veteri-nääri (eläinlääkäri), visio-nääri (visioiva henkilö). "Olympialaiset" on varmaankin paras esimerkki suoralainasta (jota ei ole muutettu suomalaiseen asuun), jossa esiintyy sekä O että Y, ja jota suomenkielisten on hankala lausua liioittelematta y-kirjainta. Laiskasti lausumalla tulee ulos "olumpialaiset". (Disclaimer: en ole lingvisti, mutta on hauska taas mietiskellä suomea kun kirjoittelee englantia päivät pitkät.)
Mielenkiintoista! Tämä tulee suomea äidinkieltä puhuvalle ihan luonnostaan. Ei koulussa näitä käyty läpi. Ulkomaalaisille tästä on varmaan apua. Niin ja olet tosi kaunis ja kivasti ilmehtivä. 😍
To understand why it is called front and back, just play with interactive IPA vowel chart and try to mimic every sound. Just find IPA chart, which is interactive (plays sound after clicking), go to wovel section and try repeating sounds.
In Czech terminology we have names for the "groups": front, back and front neutral (literally translated), I think it is better than in English because I remembered better what ending should the word have. And (of course) very pretty video😍
Moi Kat, I think the mixture of front and back vowels in some words could be words that are imported into Finnish, for example millionaire and analysis. And a great joke - it seems the Finnish sense of humour is different to mine :) Kiitos ja Hyvää Juolu !
I'm presuming that vowel harmony is similar to umlaut in Germanic languages. It may have initially occurred because speakers got into the habit of anticipating syllables, so they would keep their mouth in the same or similar position to say two or more vowel sounds that occurred in a word. I hope that helps you understand it. It seems to be a common trait among the Uralic languages. Hungarian also follows vowel harmony.
Yeah, possibly. It feels very cumbersome to say some words that break the harmony. Even though Kat said that she doesn't get the front and back thing, I think the difference is very noticeable. Trying to say a front and a back vocal in a same word and especially back to back feels very unnatural to me. Estonian does not have it. I don't know how they do it.
Hei KatChats Finnish, I love to learn Finnish, and sometime I find it's challenging to pronounce compound vowels. Do you mind to make a video teach us how to pronounce compound vowels in Finnish? Those are : yi, ye, yö, ui, uo, äi, äy, ai, au, öi, öy, oi, ou, ie, iu, ei, eu, ey . Kiitos etukäteen
Good video! Luulen että ne suun etu- ja takaosa vokaalisäännöt on vaan sen takia koska haluttiin vääntää joku sääntö siihen ettei ne ois miten sattuu/ois joku mistä pitää kiinni/joku syy siihen. Sorry couldn't say that in english :D
I tried saying aa-ää-aa-ää repeatedly and if I pay attention to it, my tongue does actually move back and forward. (Same with oo-öö and uu-yy.) Neutral vowels are interesting because it seems that you pronounce them with a different part of your mouth depending on the word. Try saying the words "silta" (=bridge) and "siltä" (=from it) and pay attention to where your toungue is on the letter 'i'. In "silta" it's in the back of your mouth and in "siltä" it's in the front (although the difference is small). And now that I think about it, I think the consonants behave similarly as well.
Are words like järvi and mäki exceptions to the rule about dot harmony, or does the fact that I is neutral mean it's not an exception? Suopajärvi and Tuiskumäki are both last names I've come across, and while it does appear that both are compound words, unless mistaken, the front vowel ä in both names suggests that there should be a second front vowel somewhere else in both names, albeit vowel harmony is present if you disregard the ä in both names.
They are compound words you're correct, so that means suopa and järvi are considered two separate words with two separate vowel harmony rules. So since järvi is combined with only another i which is neutral it follows the rule, same with mäki. If that makes sense, it's hard to explain with text xD
Ehem, järvi and mäki themselves are ok because they combine front and middle (neutral) vowels. You can combine front and middle vowels, and back and middle vowels, but never back and front vowels. All of this is because of the ease of pronounciation - the language must be easy to speak without too complicated vowel combinations. We Finns want everything to be easy... And yes, we have some loan words like olympia... They have back and front vowels together - but they are loan words.. We speak them out as olimpia, which is easier for everyone. The same applies also to other languages in regard of this word, I suppose.
@@KatChatsFinnish I'm trying to learn Spanish myself and it's driving me nuts altho it's supposed to be one of the easiest languages to learn... 😬 but perhaps I have learned many grammartical rules which most of Spanish natives are probably unaware of as well :D Having my phone's language set on Spanish helps a lot
What situations exist where a “p” is pronounced “b” vs pronounced “p” vs pronounced as “ph” or “f?” Similarly, what situations exist where a “k” is pronounced “g” vs pronounced “k” vs pronounced “kh?” Also, are there any native Finnish words with “sch” or “tch” pronounciations?
In finnish we pronounce every letter the same, with only couple of exceptions. So p is always p, never b or ph or f. Same with k, always k. We don't have spelling bees, if you know how to read the letters you know how to pronounce every word. I'm not sure about sch or tch, I would need an example for what they actually sound like, but I'm guessing there probably isn't.
@@FinBoyXD I thought that the "sch" spelling was satisfied by an s - tilde, the "tch" sound was satisfied by a c - tilde, and the "dze" sound was satisfied by a z - tilde.
I am slightly disappointed you didn't mention "veri" and the other word that breaks vowel harmony because they don't default to front vowels even though they are neutral.
I forgot to mention: In compound words you use the ending for the LAST word part so eg. ruokapöytä - you would use pöytä to determine the ending -> ruokapöydässä vs in syyskuu you would use kuu to determine the ending -> syyskuussa :D
Oh okay good to know. thanks for mentioning that :D
Okay
Then how about talking when you need to use ssa/ssä
Lla/llä
Tta/ttä
I mean..in a setence...
Like kesälla- winter
Ssa is like really present tense
Thanks Kat that also explains why epälukita does not violate vowel hamony, it's a smoosh word epä-lukita.
please don't stop your videos kat, they are very useful :/
This was sooo helpful! Thank you so much.
I was stuck with the pronunciation of ä compared to a. And knowing one is at the front and the other at the back is like a lightbulb moment for me. Thank you!
I'm so glad it helped! :) Thank you so much for watching!
Getting started with finnish grammar and this video cleared sooo many things! Kiitos paljon.
As an English speaker, the front, back thing is a pretty good guide to how different vowels are pronounced. But I think it's easier to think of them as not occurring in the same word so as not to confuse one with the other, especially since they can change the meaning slightly.
"-lyysi" on "suometettu" pääte-laina (-lysis), joka viittaa hajottamiseen (ana-lyysi, dia-lyysi, elektro-lyysi, etc.), joka toimii yhdyssananomaisesti ja varmaankin siksi seuraa yhdyssanasääntöjä.
Sama pätenee -nääri-liitteeseen (-nary), miljo-nääri (miljoonahenkilö), veteri-nääri (eläinlääkäri), visio-nääri (visioiva henkilö).
"Olympialaiset" on varmaankin paras esimerkki suoralainasta (jota ei ole muutettu suomalaiseen asuun), jossa esiintyy sekä O että Y, ja jota suomenkielisten on hankala lausua liioittelematta y-kirjainta. Laiskasti lausumalla tulee ulos "olumpialaiset".
(Disclaimer: en ole lingvisti, mutta on hauska taas mietiskellä suomea kun kirjoittelee englantia päivät pitkät.)
This is just the same rule as in Turkish vowel harmony...
I like the way you explain the topic, it is very simple and easy to understand, and I forgot to mention (you are very lovely and beautiful)
Hello Kat ! Thank you so much for this Video, now many things make sense !
Have an excellent day ! 😊🤗
Thank you! I'm so glad you found this video helpful hahah, have a wonderful day yourself
have a nice time ..love finnish language 🙂
Mielenkiintoista! Tämä tulee suomea äidinkieltä puhuvalle ihan luonnostaan. Ei koulussa näitä käyty läpi. Ulkomaalaisille tästä on varmaan apua. Niin ja olet tosi kaunis ja kivasti ilmehtivä. 😍
Kiitos :)
To understand why it is called front and back, just play with interactive IPA vowel chart and try to mimic every sound. Just find IPA chart, which is interactive (plays sound after clicking), go to wovel section and try repeating sounds.
Or you can pronounce pairs (o and ö) and feel, how your tongue moves.
In Czech terminology we have names for the "groups": front, back and front neutral (literally translated), I think it is better than in English because I remembered better what ending should the word have.
And (of course) very pretty video😍
Reminds me of and explains the spelling of one my ancestor's names: Ämmälä.
I don't like being obsessed, but... well I am.
Hungarian has also a kind of similar harmony. Good video:)))
Thanks! 😃
Moi Kat, I think the mixture of front and back vowels in some words could be words that are imported into Finnish, for example millionaire and analysis. And a great joke - it seems the Finnish sense of humour is different to mine :) Kiitos ja Hyvää Juolu !
hyvää uutta vuotta!!! brilliant as always!!!
I'm presuming that vowel harmony is similar to umlaut in Germanic languages. It may have initially occurred because speakers got into the habit of anticipating syllables, so they would keep their mouth in the same or similar position to say two or more vowel sounds that occurred in a word. I hope that helps you understand it. It seems to be a common trait among the Uralic languages. Hungarian also follows vowel harmony.
Hmm that's actually very interesting, thanks for sharing :D
Yeah, possibly. It feels very cumbersome to say some words that break the harmony. Even though Kat said that she doesn't get the front and back thing, I think the difference is very noticeable. Trying to say a front and a back vocal in a same word and especially back to back feels very unnatural to me. Estonian does not have it. I don't know how they do it.
@@disorder1111 Yeah, in Sunday is "pühapäev" in Estonian, even though "pühäpäev" would be so much easier.
My Finnish gf just told me about this cause she had troubles saying my name lol! (Cause it's basically Aryän)
Yeah the y-ä combination is tricky xD
Very clear and interesting video :) Keep up the good work!
Thank you!
olen oppinut suomen kielellä videoita! kiitos! menaan kahvilaan! :)
There is also one exception to vowel harmony that isn't a compound word or a loanword: tällainen (this kind of).
That's from tämän-lainen. It's in the process of changing to tälläinen.
As a Finn, it's nice that someone who tdoesn't speak finnish as his/her first language teaches finnish. Respect.
Hei KatChats Finnish, I love to learn Finnish, and sometime I find it's challenging to pronounce compound vowels. Do you mind to make a video teach us how to pronounce compound vowels in Finnish? Those are : yi, ye, yö, ui, uo, äi, äy, ai, au, öi, öy, oi, ou, ie, iu, ei, eu, ey . Kiitos etukäteen
I have a few videos up to the o compounds I believe, you could start there :)
Yeah u made a video on my requested topic thx
You're welcome!
Well basically if there’s the vowel with dots the other must have it as well end of story
I actually liked that little ASL part with the E I vowels a lot ^_^
I'm glad ^-^
Kiitos
Kiitos. Still too difficult for me "a" and "ä" pronunciation
Awesome video!!!
Good video! Luulen että ne suun etu- ja takaosa vokaalisäännöt on vaan sen takia koska haluttiin vääntää joku sääntö siihen ettei ne ois miten sattuu/ois joku mistä pitää kiinni/joku syy siihen. Sorry couldn't say that in english :D
Well I will eventually understand still learning
Sano olympialaiset monta kertaa nopeasti peräkkäin! :D
haha
I tried saying aa-ää-aa-ää repeatedly and if I pay attention to it, my tongue does actually move back and forward. (Same with oo-öö and uu-yy.)
Neutral vowels are interesting because it seems that you pronounce them with a different part of your mouth depending on the word. Try saying the words "silta" (=bridge) and "siltä" (=from it) and pay attention to where your toungue is on the letter 'i'. In "silta" it's in the back of your mouth and in "siltä" it's in the front (although the difference is small). And now that I think about it, I think the consonants behave similarly as well.
Wow, this was really helpful, and I didn’t know that you know Sign language as well lol, :>> amazinggggg love ur videos
Thank you! 😃
Are words like järvi and mäki exceptions to the rule about dot harmony, or does the fact that I is neutral mean it's not an exception?
Suopajärvi and Tuiskumäki are both last names I've come across, and while it does appear that both are compound words, unless mistaken, the front vowel ä in both names suggests that there should be a second front vowel somewhere else in both names, albeit vowel harmony is present if you disregard the ä in both names.
They are compound words you're correct, so that means suopa and järvi are considered two separate words with two separate vowel harmony rules. So since järvi is combined with only another i which is neutral it follows the rule, same with mäki. If that makes sense, it's hard to explain with text xD
Ehem, järvi and mäki themselves are ok because they combine front and middle (neutral) vowels. You can combine front and middle vowels, and back and middle vowels, but never back and front vowels. All of this is because of the ease of pronounciation - the language must be easy to speak without too complicated vowel combinations. We Finns want everything to be easy...
And yes, we have some loan words like olympia... They have back and front vowels together - but they are loan words.. We speak them out as olimpia, which is easier for everyone. The same applies also to other languages in regard of this word, I suppose.
i love it thank you so much and keep it up with good work
Thank you, I will try :)
You are great I appreciate your work
How to use " ko" and "ko"
I mean "o" and "o" with dots
Hop you understand
Hello , i really like to learn finish and i dont know how can i learn, wich way can i choose to learn ?could you help me please?
I made a video kinda about this..? And also some good suggestions in the comments :) ruclips.net/video/sTpMgwg2rEk/видео.html
Nice teaching and also you
Paljon kiitoksia tästä videosta!
Wow I'm Finnish and I didn't even know about this rule... i just know which ending to use...
I always have to do some research before videos cause that's my main method too for knowing the correct endings xD
@@KatChatsFinnish I'm trying to learn Spanish myself and it's driving me nuts altho it's supposed to be one of the easiest languages to learn... 😬 but perhaps I have learned many grammartical rules which most of Spanish natives are probably unaware of as well :D
Having my phone's language set on Spanish helps a lot
Lovely
Hyvää Uutta Vuotta Kat
Hyvää Uutta Vuotta :D
❤️
Thanks
Very useful
What situations exist where a “p” is pronounced “b” vs pronounced “p” vs pronounced as “ph” or “f?”
Similarly, what situations exist where a “k” is pronounced “g” vs pronounced “k” vs pronounced “kh?”
Also, are there any native Finnish words with “sch” or “tch” pronounciations?
In finnish we pronounce every letter the same, with only couple of exceptions. So p is always p, never b or ph or f. Same with k, always k. We don't have spelling bees, if you know how to read the letters you know how to pronounce every word. I'm not sure about sch or tch, I would need an example for what they actually sound like, but I'm guessing there probably isn't.
@@FinBoyXD I thought that the "sch" spelling was satisfied by an s - tilde, the "tch" sound was satisfied by a c - tilde, and the "dze" sound was satisfied by a z - tilde.
I am slightly disappointed you didn't mention "veri" and the other word that breaks vowel harmony because they don't default to front vowels even though they are neutral.
How does it not? Veri -> veressä, veressäni, veressäsi, verellä etc.
@@KatChatsFinnish But verta and merta are exceptions
Thanks So Much My Teacher ❤
kiitos paljon :)
Soon I am coming
Katya? y and a together? Not a Finnish name?
It's a Finnish sounding name but traditionally it would be spelt Katja
Dw we were all thinking “no”. 😂😂
Hienoa. Great.
👍 perfectus
Tengri Fin’i Korusun!
👏👏
How about 1-1 lecture in skype? 😀
Hämmästyttävä
Hei, miksi sanoa kuudella sanomalla kolme
Wow you are damn pretty.. have a bf? 😀
LOL
Finnish needs a Rosa Parkesque.language reformer to stop this confusion ..
nope, finnish is beautiful. it's hard but every language shouldn't be the same as english grammatically