You know considering that Typhon being Lasombra would have meant Osiris would have likely had some level of access to Oblivion/Obtenebration would actually track with him having some special insights into death and the deadlands. Also the way his interactions with Osiris are described, assuming what he was doing was warning him of threats to comes, testing his resolve with knowledge of the things he'd have to face in the future, or maybe just trying to scare him by showing him any of the many terrifying things one can do with Oblivion and Obtenebration and seeing if he'd hold firm or crack, one could think of it as an early form of the normal "interview" a Lasombra would subject a potential child to in the modern era, just done over a much shorter time and in a less severe manner. Which could possibly be explained by this simply being before the clan started being stricter with their standards, Osiris having already been judged as worthy and the test being more a formality, and or Typhon not wanting to strip his Child of the political power that might have attracted him in the first place. Also there's the "Children of Osiris" bloodline/clan, who's main disciplines (outside of the primary discipline Bardo, which is specifically tied to Osiris, are dominate and potence, the same two secondary disciplines as Lasombra). So yeah, fully behind the idea Typhon is the Lasombra Antediluvian here.
While Apep might have been diablerised, I don't think you Have to be a vampire for that. I'm pretty sure all that matters is that the targets soul can be drained with their heart's blood, which isn't typically true of mortals or the garou. However, drinking Lilith's blood awakened Caine to the disciplines before he became the first vampire, and the Crone could bloodbond Caine without having been embraced, suggesting that perhaps Mages or Fae might have Vitae in some form, perhaps enough to diablerise them. And if not, well, Set knew how to trap a soul, and the Banu Haqim have confirmed that you can diablerise a kindred by extracting their soul from coagulated Vitae and devouring it. No doubt that set could do the same, given enough knowledge.
The idea of "true immortals" in a setting with vampires and other "fake immortals" things is interesting enough. However, one thing that attracts me specially in this characters is the detail that they (in theory) know what is objectively moral, right. FROM A DIVINE PERSPECTIVE, not the legal/will-of-the-peopleish attempts of human morality. They get a compass to know the direction of Maat, inside them. That's precious for storytelling because, naturally, the Will of Maat, objective Justice, under some circumstances may NOT look anything like the path of humanity. Or the common sense of players about right and wrong. Possibly because the Justice in each case involves ramification unknow, spiritual consequences, big pictures. Ergo, you get characters who have to choose between doing the ugly thing, knowing that's the right thing in the long run. Objectively the right thing, even if it hurts innocents and violates morality in superficial levels. Or do what looks and feels right and pretty for the player, knowing that is objectively the wrong thing to do, and will (some how) cause more long term harm for those your character is trying to protect and help. (not to mention weaken the Player Character, since go against Maat is not healthy, when you have such a privileged access to the Godless Will)
Why would you think its objective just because it is divine? The divine can be immoral. It's the same problem Judeo-Christianity has. The divine is less moral than mortals are in many cases.
That's an interesting Theological debate,@@rickwrites2612 . What you are using to mensure the actions of deity when you say they "can be immoral"? Well, there is some argument about the possibility of gods being immoral, if they disagree about morality. Plato raises that point to sustain that we cannot judge something right because gods approve it. We should judge the gods right, good, because they approve good things. It only stands in a polytheist context (as far as I understand the argument). In monotheist context, the Universe was created by one single individual. Along with all "objective" rules and parameters. "Objective" refers to some "object", such "object" being product of an intentional and all knowing, all powerful, character: I see no escape. "Objectively good" has to be what this creator character judges right. Any intuition on the contrary from our part is wrong. Goes without saying: Maat does not belong to a Monotheist Cosmogony. When I say she may work as objective measure for moral (I should say "Ethical", to be precise) good I am not supposing she personally designed morality like a monotheistic god does. I am saying she has direct access to privileged information about what is right ("big picture " right) in every specific _meaningful_ decision. But I am not saying that is the only way to tell that story. That is just my way to do that.
@@thiagom8478 I do think you misunderstood Euthyphro's dilemma slightly. It's not that we are to judge the gods to be right or wrong on the basis of whether they love good things, but simply that the attributes of "good/holy" and "beloved by the gods" are not the same in essence, even if a thing happens to be both. The argument is very much valid in monotheistic theology (you could argue Plato was a monotheist), which is why you have people like the commenter above concluding that the God of the OT is an evil demiurge. A stupid opinion IMO, but nevertheless valid according to formal logic.
Horus came back from the dead and the first thing he did was cut his murderer's 8=D off. Peak vengeful ghost right there, and knowing how the fight ended in the original mythology I can only imagine what he threatened to do next with 8=D Because believe me, original myth is much weirder.
I want to say in all reality the WW are like... on the 4th rung from the bottom if you actually rank on power in WoD, shit gets weirdly op in this universe. I'm not a total lore encyclopedia like this beautiful channel
Werewolves have the highest "floor" of the supernaturals, meaning they start really powerful. They can get pretty crazy OP, but Vamps, Mummies and Mages all cap off way *way* higher.
im not sure id white wolf did this intentionally but in greek mythology Typhon is the giant who nearly conqered olympus. if the idea of Set using the name Typhon is acurate then he may have traveled to greece.
@@waynes.wilson6616 It's too high concept with a weird mix of too many tools and too many limitations. I think it would work excellent as a single player game, now that I think about it.
@@unintentionallydramatic if just requires the right players, Vampire is an easier concept for new players with little knowledge of the lore- while Mummy requires everyone in the group to be on the same page lore wise- in order to tell the kind of story that everyone wishes to experience. . However, if you wish to create a Mummy NPC- players lack of lore knowledge can actually work in favour of the story. They make for good bait & switch antagonist.
@@libraryofpangea7018 So it's what you should give your players after they've finished going through the Imbued->Vampire->Mage/SAD immersion pipeline and want something even more lore heavy for their next chronicle.
The Garou generally don't know about Caine or even care. That's their oral mythology of how vampires came to be and why they almost all 'stink of the Wyrm.'
Lazar of Stygia first edition Sir, but for sentimental reasons only, it was written by the old crew at ww back in the old first days. By the way, did you ever play/gm the giovanni chronicles? that awesome storyline with some actors you presented on your chanel that starts on 4th April 1444 and goes into the present? I just happen to have started it again with some fresh players. I think that story with all its chapters would make some tip top content 👍
@@coleallard3884 I've played GC2 and 3. My character was a Gangrel Archon sent to 'protect' (read: spy on) the Children of Isaac characters and make sure they didn't do anything against the Camarilla's interests.
Amazing video! I love Egyptian mythology and history, so I found this rpg now, and Ive been only Playing D&D with friends, can you make a video explaining how to DM the Mummy? Are the books still available?
The answer to your first question is possibly. I can talk about how I ST/DM, but I that may or may not be helpful for anyone. And there are still copies of Mummy (2nd and Resurrection) floating around for sale.
It depends on the vampire's generation and how long they've been undead. A relatively new vampire will just be a hacked up corpse. An ancient bloodsucker collapses into dust.
Is there anything more about the Cabiri beside the few bits of technical information on the wiki, that you might know of? I've been trying to conceive of a mummy character that isn't so royally tied to Egypt, but want them to be dropped in the Pyrénnées as it fits the heavy toreador cast of this thing I'm writing.
So long as mummies have ba energy they are alive like any other mortal. But once their Ba is depleted, they have to return to the Underworld to 'recharge' (death cycle).
@@skeletonking4119 That's a tough question. I guess it depends on whether or not you count reincarnation as immortality because no one in the world of darkness is invulnerable not even Caine.
@@skeletonking4119 God and probably only God, seeing as other than maybe Caine (and that's really stretching the lore), there's no-one who could kill him, and without exception he can annihilate anyone, removing them from existence far more thoroughly than even diablerie can. The Fallen and other Elohim come next, followed by those cursed few who predate the murder of Abel. The former being mortal before God (and possibly Caine), the latter being simply unaging and supposedly returning for the final judgement regardless of other circumstances (so far only the Crone is known to be dead, with Adam and Eve off hiding from prying eyes, Caine in Torpor [we hope], and Lillith roaming the world [and probably keeping an eye out for Caine so she can stake him]).
@@skeletonking4119 Lucifer. They are still a full blown Elohim just kicking around helping people out. Probably the strongest single entity in the setting and certainly the oldest "person" though maybe not the oldest entity
>Points at what the Ravnos "antediluvian" did with no prep time. >Points to The Eldest and Kupala with Aeons of prep time. >Points to Caine, in """torpor""" with all the time since the flood to prep. >Points to Lillith, who has been preparing since before the first Bloodbond on how to get revenge on the Cainites... >Laughs at the mummies and garou who don't have the technocracy firing spirit nukes at them.
@Michael-bn1oi I had a dragon Allie a an item that functioned as a super steak be it had the blood of Cain on it in a dark sorcery made to paralyze vampires and I had a time based spirit talen that lowered the actions of all non pack members for a scene. Trust me are victory was earned.
![Megan Thee Stallion - Roc Steady (feat. Flo Milli) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HozPPyqW0dY/mqdefault.jpg)
I love how Cain seems to always be the cause of issues in this universe.
All he had to do was not kill his brother. Tempting as it, most people manage that.
@@lazarofstygia2241 as if he did it by design.
@@lazarofstygia2241 True enough. I regularly have to resist that urge.
@@jerrybierman9047 if it wasn’t for certain obstacles I would do it
@@VandalAudi Well isn't smashing someone's head in with a rock pourposful? could you clarify?
The settites should be honored an entire separate type of undead that exists mostly just to kill them. Quite flattering
You know considering that Typhon being Lasombra would have meant Osiris would have likely had some level of access to Oblivion/Obtenebration would actually track with him having some special insights into death and the deadlands. Also the way his interactions with Osiris are described, assuming what he was doing was warning him of threats to comes, testing his resolve with knowledge of the things he'd have to face in the future, or maybe just trying to scare him by showing him any of the many terrifying things one can do with Oblivion and Obtenebration and seeing if he'd hold firm or crack, one could think of it as an early form of the normal "interview" a Lasombra would subject a potential child to in the modern era, just done over a much shorter time and in a less severe manner. Which could possibly be explained by this simply being before the clan started being stricter with their standards, Osiris having already been judged as worthy and the test being more a formality, and or Typhon not wanting to strip his Child of the political power that might have attracted him in the first place. Also there's the "Children of Osiris" bloodline/clan, who's main disciplines (outside of the primary discipline Bardo, which is specifically tied to Osiris, are dominate and potence, the same two secondary disciplines as Lasombra). So yeah, fully behind the idea Typhon is the Lasombra Antediluvian here.
Just hearing about the hate boner set had for Osiris makes the vampire clan feuds family sitcoms.
Clan tremere: did I do that?
Family disputes are usually more vicious and personal than with strangers.
Malkavian: *enters the room to audience cheering* Do you guys hear that too?
@@dylanchouinard6141 I love how you can play a Malkavian who actually has that happen.
the tale of Set consuming Apep is rather similar to diablerie. This could imply that Set isn't the only vampire out of the two.
While Apep might have been diablerised, I don't think you Have to be a vampire for that. I'm pretty sure all that matters is that the targets soul can be drained with their heart's blood, which isn't typically true of mortals or the garou. However, drinking Lilith's blood awakened Caine to the disciplines before he became the first vampire, and the Crone could bloodbond Caine without having been embraced, suggesting that perhaps Mages or Fae might have Vitae in some form, perhaps enough to diablerise them.
And if not, well, Set knew how to trap a soul, and the Banu Haqim have confirmed that you can diablerise a kindred by extracting their soul from coagulated Vitae and devouring it. No doubt that set could do the same, given enough knowledge.
So Apep is Typhon, who then embraced both brothers and set diablerized APAP to become a 13th generation vampire...
The idea of "true immortals" in a setting with vampires and other "fake immortals" things is interesting enough. However, one thing that attracts me specially in this characters is the detail that they (in theory) know what is objectively moral, right. FROM A DIVINE PERSPECTIVE, not the legal/will-of-the-peopleish attempts of human morality. They get a compass to know the direction of Maat, inside them.
That's precious for storytelling because, naturally, the Will of Maat, objective Justice, under some circumstances may NOT look anything like the path of humanity. Or the common sense of players about right and wrong.
Possibly because the Justice in each case involves ramification unknow, spiritual consequences, big pictures.
Ergo, you get characters who have to choose between doing the ugly thing, knowing that's the right thing in the long run. Objectively the right thing, even if it hurts innocents and violates morality in superficial levels. Or do what looks and feels right and pretty for the player, knowing that is objectively the wrong thing to do, and will (some how) cause more long term harm for those your character is trying to protect and help. (not to mention weaken the Player Character, since go against Maat is not healthy, when you have such a privileged access to the Godless Will)
Oh yeah, thats the good stuff.
Why would you think its objective just because it is divine? The divine can be immoral. It's the same problem Judeo-Christianity has. The divine is less moral than mortals are in many cases.
That's an interesting Theological debate,@@rickwrites2612 . What you are using to mensure the actions of deity when you say they "can be immoral"? Well, there is some argument about the possibility of gods being immoral, if they disagree about morality. Plato raises that point to sustain that we cannot judge something right because gods approve it. We should judge the gods right, good, because they approve good things. It only stands in a polytheist context (as far as I understand the argument).
In monotheist context, the Universe was created by one single individual. Along with all "objective" rules and parameters. "Objective" refers to some "object", such "object" being product of an intentional and all knowing, all powerful, character: I see no escape. "Objectively good" has to be what this creator character judges right. Any intuition on the contrary from our part is wrong.
Goes without saying: Maat does not belong to a Monotheist Cosmogony. When I say she may work as objective measure for moral (I should say "Ethical", to be precise) good I am not supposing she personally designed morality like a monotheistic god does. I am saying she has direct access to privileged information about what is right ("big picture " right) in every specific _meaningful_ decision.
But I am not saying that is the only way to tell that story. That is just my way to do that.
@@thiagom8478 I do think you misunderstood Euthyphro's dilemma slightly. It's not that we are to judge the gods to be right or wrong on the basis of whether they love good things, but simply that the attributes of "good/holy" and "beloved by the gods" are not the same in essence, even if a thing happens to be both. The argument is very much valid in monotheistic theology (you could argue Plato was a monotheist), which is why you have people like the commenter above concluding that the God of the OT is an evil demiurge. A stupid opinion IMO, but nevertheless valid according to formal logic.
Horus came back from the dead and the first thing he did was cut his murderer's 8=D off. Peak vengeful ghost right there, and knowing how the fight ended in the original mythology I can only imagine what he threatened to do next with 8=D
Because believe me, original myth is much weirder.
What about the seamen bread?
“Sneaky bubasti “ has just entered my personal lexicon for anyone engaging in shenanigans
I don't understand how Horus ended up being a inmortal if he didn't get the spell of life
He received it. However with part of his soul being held by Set it was incomplete until it was reunited.
Cool video. Thanks. I always thought werewolves were the big bad bruisers of the wod
If you give a mummy enough prep time, they will be able to punch it out with a vampire Methuselah and come out ahead.
I want to say in all reality the WW are like... on the 4th rung from the bottom if you actually rank on power in WoD, shit gets weirdly op in this universe. I'm not a total lore encyclopedia like this beautiful channel
Werewolves have the highest "floor" of the supernaturals, meaning they start really powerful. They can get pretty crazy OP, but Vamps, Mummies and Mages all cap off way *way* higher.
im not sure id white wolf did this intentionally but in greek mythology Typhon is the giant who nearly conqered olympus. if the idea of Set using the name Typhon is acurate then he may have traveled to greece.
In real life the Greeks called Set Typhon, this is almost certainly what that is a reference to.
Mummy is as fascinating a setting as it is unplayable a game.
How is it unplayable?
@@waynes.wilson6616 It's too high concept with a weird mix of too many tools and too many limitations. I think it would work excellent as a single player game, now that I think about it.
@@unintentionallydramatic I see, thanks for the clarification
@@unintentionallydramatic if just requires the right players, Vampire is an easier concept for new players with little knowledge of the lore-
while Mummy requires everyone in the group to be on the same page lore wise- in order to tell the kind of story that everyone wishes to experience. .
However, if you wish to create a Mummy NPC- players lack of lore knowledge can actually work in favour of the story. They make for good bait & switch antagonist.
@@libraryofpangea7018 So it's what you should give your players after they've finished going through the Imbued->Vampire->Mage/SAD immersion pipeline and want something even more lore heavy for their next chronicle.
A Souls-like where you get to play as a mummy sounds like a fun idea.
This was great your channel is criminally underated
I love egyptian myth and this was wonderful, nice job.
Thank you.
Great video. I've been in DnD land for a few months great to be back in he World Of Darkness....
So in this context Apotheus is the Wyrm i guess?
I wouldn't be against a new polished version.
Hmmm...maybe.
The Silent Striders certainly think so, which is part of the reason they hate Set.
@@lazarofstygia2241 as garou probably not a big stretch to believe.
recently wonder if the Beast itself is the wyrms (or oblivions) taint
The Garou believe so.
They believe all vampires to be descendants of 'The Bloody Man' who was eaten and the regurgitated by the Wyrm.
@@lazarofstygia2241 ooh interesting. Do we anything of him?
Or is just Caine meant?
The Garou generally don't know about Caine or even care. That's their oral mythology of how vampires came to be and why they almost all 'stink of the Wyrm.'
Who do I have to put through a resurrection cycle to get an Amenti lore video? 😆
In hunters hunted osirus had his own holy bloodline. Typhon might be Caine.
Thanks again man! Awesome...
You're welcome! Do you prefer 1st edition Mummy? Or 2nd/revised?
Lazar of Stygia first edition Sir, but for sentimental reasons only, it was written by the old crew at ww back in the old first days. By the way, did you ever play/gm the giovanni chronicles? that awesome storyline with some actors you presented on your chanel that starts on 4th April 1444 and goes into the present? I just happen to have started it again with some fresh players. I think that story with all its chapters would make some tip top content 👍
@@coleallard3884 I've played GC2 and 3. My character was a Gangrel Archon sent to 'protect' (read: spy on) the Children of Isaac characters and make sure they didn't do anything against the Camarilla's interests.
I'm glad I found your channel!
Amazing video! I love Egyptian mythology and history, so I found this rpg now, and Ive been only Playing D&D with friends, can you make a video explaining how to DM the Mummy? Are the books still available?
The answer to your first question is possibly. I can talk about how I ST/DM, but I that may or may not be helpful for anyone. And there are still copies of Mummy (2nd and Resurrection) floating around for sale.
Drivethrurpg offers print-to-order physical copies of Mummy: the Resurrection as well as PDFs.
How could Isis gather the flesh of Osiris if vampires turn to ash? Does higher blood potency change it?
It depends on the vampire's generation and how long they've been undead. A relatively new vampire will just be a hacked up corpse. An ancient bloodsucker collapses into dust.
The history of mommy
The Mummy always reminds me to Monster Mash
What if a Follower of Set went through the ritual used in Mummy? I hope what I am asking is clear.
Are they loyal to set when they do this or have they had a change of heart
@@MaeljinRajah They would remain with Set in my understanding.
@@SkullCowboy333 that's textbook Bane mummies right there
Or as I'd call them potential best friends
It doesn't work. The spell of life requires you to be alive at the time it is cast.
"Mummies aren't quite as sexy as vampires". Draugr and uppvakningur are sexier than all other undead.... except maybe Nosferatu. :D
🎵He’s got a Mummy!🎶
Is there anything more about the Cabiri beside the few bits of technical information on the wiki, that you might know of?
I've been trying to conceive of a mummy character that isn't so royally tied to Egypt, but want them to be dropped in the Pyrénnées as it fits the heavy toreador cast of this thing I'm writing.
The Cabiri have more details in Mummy 2nd edition
Why do mummies have a cycle of life and death? And is it optional like torpor?
So long as mummies have ba energy they are alive like any other mortal. But once their Ba is depleted, they have to return to the Underworld to 'recharge' (death cycle).
I never liked the Set
But seriously amazing videos mate
Yeah Set is a front-runner for the title of Biggest Asshole in the World of Darkness.
Lazar of Stygia
One stupid question?
Who’s the true immortal in world of Darkness??
@@skeletonking4119 That's a tough question. I guess it depends on whether or not you count reincarnation as immortality because no one in the world of darkness is invulnerable not even Caine.
@@skeletonking4119 God and probably only God, seeing as other than maybe Caine (and that's really stretching the lore), there's no-one who could kill him, and without exception he can annihilate anyone, removing them from existence far more thoroughly than even diablerie can.
The Fallen and other Elohim come next, followed by those cursed few who predate the murder of Abel. The former being mortal before God (and possibly Caine), the latter being simply unaging and supposedly returning for the final judgement regardless of other circumstances (so far only the Crone is known to be dead, with Adam and Eve off hiding from prying eyes, Caine in Torpor [we hope], and Lillith roaming the world [and probably keeping an eye out for Caine so she can stake him]).
@@skeletonking4119 Lucifer.
They are still a full blown Elohim just kicking around helping people out. Probably the strongest single entity in the setting and certainly the oldest "person" though maybe not the oldest entity
Mummy with prep time nasty but you all underestimate the power of Garu with prep time.
>Points at what the Ravnos "antediluvian" did with no prep time.
>Points to The Eldest and Kupala with Aeons of prep time.
>Points to Caine, in """torpor""" with all the time since the flood to prep.
>Points to Lillith, who has been preparing since before the first Bloodbond on how to get revenge on the Cainites...
>Laughs at the mummies and garou who don't have the technocracy firing spirit nukes at them.
@@theapexsurvivor9538 I mean I killed Bobbayaga and she had prep time but so did us
@@TheUnnbreakable your storyteller didn't do her justice then. Not that anything in your chronicle matters to the lore.
@Michael-bn1oi I had a dragon Allie a an item that functioned as a super steak be it had the blood of Cain on it in a dark sorcery made to paralyze vampires and I had a time based spirit talen that lowered the actions of all non pack members for a scene. Trust me are victory was earned.
This has nothing to do with the lore, however...
It makes me want to go play Pharaoh.
Therese wasn't joking when she said there were mummies.
The video glitched out for me and it literally only played the last words. I was like this is a really short video
Wow
Music name?
I had to watch this video because I have NO IDEA wtf the game is supposed to be
You know people dump on Warhammer alot for narrowing from IRL lore… this is on a whole different level of borderline plagiarism
So unfortunate that universities have succeeded in gaslighting people into believing plagiarism is a real thing.
World of darkness takes place on earth.
World of darkness presents irl lore from alternate magical perspective
I wonder if actual egyptians like this game lol
Mommy? Sorry...
Osiris shall judge you for this.