Just a quick note to say you were the talk of our model railway club this week concerning the mazak rot. I have a T9 and my motor was found to have this rot, on phoning Hornby and spoke to a guy called Matt who to his credit was absolutely 1st class and said he was totally aware of the situation and offered to fix it if I posted my loco to him or would send me the part free of charge.Congratulations Hornby, I cant thank you enough. 1st class service from a 1st class company.
Sam the tender can be repaired. I just fitted some hornby spoked wheels straight in. It's a bit tricky getting the pinpoint axles into the axle boxes but there are holes ready to accept them. This also means the pick ups can be put back too. The more common fault, especially with the super detail tender drive variant is for loco chassis rot. I managed to buy a chassis on eBay and replace. But be warned... although the "S####" part number is the same, the casting isn't. It took a lot of milling to get the body to sit right. This is same problem for loco drive too. What's more complete rebuild of the 9f is quite tricky. In fact if I had known how much trouble it would have caused me I wouldn't have bothered. Finally I just want to say that mazak pest affects ALL manufacturers, not just Hornby. One of the online forums has put together a while spreadsheet of models and their problems. Typically it affects batches, so as you say your T9 may have a bad motor mount, mine have all been fine. So the list online is specific to loco running number. Hope this all helps.
Great video I have had the same problem with my old Tyco engines and some of my old Bachmann they just fell apart. now I know why thanks a lot Sam your videos are so informative.
Hi Sam, yes, but probably not the Hornby loco you were expecting - it's in the range of (Hornby) Dinky Toys 1935 Silver Jubilee streamlined articulated set No16. Most of the pre-war trains - carriages and locos - the ones with the cut-out windows - suffer from Mazac rot. Very few still have all their couplings and wheels intact. They were still made post war, with garter blue A4 and teak coaches, and later still in BR Green, with "blood and custard" coaches. You don't often see a good silver and grey pre-war set. The Hornby Dublo pre-war clockwork locos (yes, 00 gauge clockwork) are also very difficult to find now in good condition. Thanks for your cheerful and interesting videos, which are always a treat to watch now we are still confined to our homes. Cheers, Peter T.
I had one loco with this problem a mainline GWR mogul the damage was terminal as the motor mount is part of the chassis. All my other locos (some very elderly) are ok. Glad you fixed the 9F.
Model Locomotive Expert: I know everything about trains! Sam: you know I’m something of a model loco expert myself Great video sam! I can’t wait for more! Also did you realise the tender was missing one set of wheels?
haha thanks mate! Yeah I did realise - the tender only has two sets of bearings, the middle axle just fitted into a slot, which crumbled away :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Morning Sam, I've had Mazak rot problems on the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy. Got R2268 35027 Port Line out for a run and the front bogie wasn't spinning, was seized up completely. So I attempted to unscrew it and it just crumbled away... Fortunately though I have a spare dead Merchant Navy being gradually cannibalised for spares so was able to replace the front bogie and now Port Line runs good as new. Worryingly though I can see some cracks in another of my Merchants.
Morning! Sorry to hear about your Merchant Navy - yes I've heard of the front bogies going bust before on those - completely unacceptable of course :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Some of the older MNs/BBs/WCs since about 2006 are a real pain especially when Hornby will currently not accept any loco over 10years old for repair, these are expensive items and shouldn’t happen even when stored carefully. Sam’s informative video on the Mazak/Zinc rot problem was as great and thorough as ever
I've been model railroading since 1957. This was a recurring problem back then, probably worse than this case. In America, the metal was called zamac. I haven't heard that word in decades until this transliteration. Thanks for resurrecting memories from my pioneer days..
Yeah, I'd keep 'em for static display too -- either as props for a scene, or just sitting on the mantle as a neat decoration. Especially with 3D printing these days - you could easily craft some simple non-functional parts to replace anything structural that dissolved. I did stuff like that back in my model railway days, but with a pocket knife and a bit of scrap wood! Alternatively, their non-rotting parts could be used to repair other locomotives, either for yourself, or your friends, or randos on ebay ;)
Madam rot. I learned something new today! Great video and learned a lot from this. I. Amazed how brittle the model had become. I’m a big fan of the 9f so was happy to see this return to service. Hope your well, Clint
@@idonotlikeboats9328 In historic times, when there where O-Gauge clockwork trains, the Zinkpest was normal. In our age the only other company where I heard of such problems, was a little company from austria, which went bust some years ago.
Hi Sam, thanks for explaining 'mazak rot'. I have an Atlas n-gauge K4 where the chassis had swelled up, jamming the wheels (subsequently the motor burnt out!). When I tried to squeeze it back into shape, it crumbled to bits! Now I know why. I can't find a replacement so it will have to be 3-D printed. Keep 'em coming.
As a collector of old Tin toys i can certanly confirm that it's sometime a huge problem with very old zink based castings. If it's new made pieces t's most likly because they use very sheap sources for zink, the Zink component -must- be properly purified before it goes into the alloy in order to prevent zincpest apear soone ror later.
Good vid, Sam. I had Mazak rot once thus, hopefully won't have a 2nd. Was removing a Hornby Toby motor to see if it would fit a different loco and the mount snapped off...errrm...so I tried to glue it back on, and with handling it the chassis literally snapped in half. Utter tripe!
Two class 31's have had the problem (so far!). I'm fairly sure that this model was the first to display the issue. I could have contacted Hornby to ask for replacement chassis but, in the end, I decided to let them soldier on. It's only the extreme ends of the chassis which have suffered (to the extent that the body ends started to crack) and I simply removed the affected parts. I may come to regret that decision in the future!
Hi Sam, yes i have had 3 Hornby 9f tenders do this and i have replaced each chassis with lima class 37 or 47 bogie chassis parts which has sorted them out but the chassis of all the locos are ok. cheers , Alan.
Great work on fixing it! That crumbling was bad..... but still good advice on making sure your locos don’t have it... that 9f is so pretty I wish I i has one! But I am saving for one! A limited edition one! No: 92212! Evening star may be famous but the 9fs in black are so much more pretty! More me at lest!
Thanks Davis - yeah it was pretty bad - worth checking models before the warranty ends! Awesome - hope you get a 9F some day! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have this problem with One of my Hornby 0 gauge Locos. It is a 1932 Royal scot. The wheels are cracked quite badly but the previous owner has used a sort of epoxy resin. It works quite well. Thanks for sharing, this will probably help me out in the future.
This is really useful. My DC railroad 9F hasn’t worked for some time. It makes a buzzing noise and doesn’t move like yours did. When I’ve had it apart in the past I’ve been able to get the motor to spin very happily but when together it won’t. I wonder if it needs the same parts replacing to get it to properly engage the gear and worm drive.
Sam'sTrains I’ve had it open and found a loose connection to the motor which h I’ve fixed. Running better at the moment but the motor sometimes doesn’t like to start up. If I give the flywheel a spin it goes quite happily. I’ll keep working on it.
Thank you for an informative and interesting video. I usually allow all advertisements to run their course as it seems fair to me that producers should enjoy the payments they receive from them. However, a little earlier RUclips offered an advertisement lasting 88 minutes. It was in the form of a lecture. I chose to skip it after about a minute. I don't know how this may affect you, but an advertisement eight times longer than the video was a surprise and you may wish to look into the matter.
No problem Peter, glad you enjoyed it! Good lord 88 minutes?! Unfortunately I don't have any control over the ads that get shown - though please don't feel inclined to watch ridiculously long ones on my account - I really appreciate your support! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’ve got one of those and had the same problem with the tender chassis, I sourced a replacement chassis for the tender off of ebay ,and it’s fine now , I had the loco body off the other day to fit a firebox glow effect and everything seems well .
My experience with Mazak rot wasn't model railway related, but it is Mazak rot nonetheless. Last Christmas, I got a beautiful triang minic model of my favourite ship. It was lovely and I played with it every day and took it to every occasion. It all started when I picked it up last week and noticed pitting and cracks in the rear funnel. I had seen this video and told my dad. My new triang minic Queen Elizabeth comes this Monday.
Say, Sam, I sent you a double story about real steamies: the first to get in on the act is a Spam Can Engine you have a model of, named Tangmere. The second, having to rush to Tangmere's aid, is King Edward 1st. One young man feels sorrow at learning Tired Tangmere can never run on the Main Line again, and gives up some spare cash in the hope of seeing her in steam further down the line. His compassionate thought for Tangmere earns him a footplate ride and driving experience with the GWR King. No prizes for guessing who the young man is. There's no keeping your figure a secret from anyone. By the way, glad you managed to save your model 9F from going to the scrapyard. You must really love her.
I got the Mixed Freight train set from about 2016 last year, and both the locos in it suffered from Mazak Rot, and I've not yet been able to acquire the replacement parts needed to repair them.
Did they really?! I wasn't aware of this issue with those - blimey! I've only been able to repair this 9F and the T9 I had! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had the dreaded mazak rot on a Hornby T9, your previous video on that was very useful when I fixed it last year, so thanks for that, she runs smooth as anything now!
Mazak was used in the Car industry as well. My 1953 A70 Hereford had chrome-plated door handles, boot handle, front grille and the "Flying A" on the front of the bonnet. (which was also the bonnet catch) You did see the derailed Wagon then. Martin. (Thailand)
Just this week my 9f is up and running. I purchased a motor housing from Peters Spares and a new block to house the tender wheels from a chap off ebay who had 3d printed one. My wheels were ok.
I have an O scale Lionel 1664 (1947 vintage?) loco with rotting drive wheels. Trying to deal with some missing teeth and chunks out of tires and flanges. I dare not attempt to pull them until there are replacements in my possession.
Sadly, I've had this happen to one of my locos. A few years ago, my Hornby Class 31's chassis crumbled and broke into three. It remains in that state today (although, I do have a newer Class 31 which hasn't suffered from this problem). Good to see the 9F fixed, though!
Well done Sam. I have had to failures one was my 40 year old Hornby class 91 225 and the other 22 year old King George Vth. Both failed on the drive gear that turns the gears. I replaced them with brass that should last a bit longer.
I've had mazak rot in two loco's so far, Hornby Rebuilt Patriot, (Chassis and Motor Mounts) and Hornby Standard 4 (Motor Mounts), in both cases, it's been secondhand or scratchbuilt replacements for me as I've had nothing but trouble and double-talk ordering these from Hornby themselves. Again I agree Peters Spares is a goldmine for those hard to get spares.
I’m glad you could save her! My Q1 has stopped moving suddenly I don’t know if it needs a service or what. I have officially been a fan of this channel for a year Loved the video -Ollie
Sam I am glad you were able to fix your 9F they are fantastic locomotives. I also have a 9F Evening Star well I had 2 the first one I had was the older ring filled motor in the tender it lasted for 2 months then the motor started to smell like a burning smell. I took it to my local model shop to see if it could be fixed and unfortunately it was dead. So I waited a few month as Hornby was bringing out a loco driven 9F so I got that one and she's running very well now. Enjoyed this video very much. Stay safe and take care.
I got my first train set in 1980. It was a Märklin set. It was in a box for over 20 years until 2011. When I took it out and put it on the track, it drove off as happily as before it went into that box.
Hi Sam thanks for this video. Thought I'd check out my Hornby Evening Star. Haven't used it for ages and sure enough strange noise and no movement. Also tender wheels siezed up. What a mess. Must admit was in the loft. Got the motor covers and modified tender chassis coming from ebay. Was surprised to see the ringfield skeleton in the tender.
zamac in the US. It's very prevalent in die-cast cars, especially larger scales such as 1:43 and larger, and made in the former Soviet bloc. I've seen dozens of 1:43 cars that had turned to basically sand and crumbled in the hand. I think the problem is too much zinc in the mix, and yes, moisture/humidity is a big factor. I've also seen this in 1;64 cars, such as Hot Wheels, Playart, Johnny Lightning, ERTL, but it's not as common.
Mazak rot was always a problem on those old Dublo locos, but I have never encountered it with modern DCC ready locos! This is a serious quality control issue. I think it is exacerbated by damp as you say, but in the case of Dublo models, the rot affects the exterior of the bodywork and not the inside as has happened here. I think the cause of the interior rot is high temperatures. In light of this, I would remove such locos from the loft during the summer. Put them under the floorboards! The problem with a loft is a considerable temperature fluctuation causing repeated expansion and contraction of the Mazak, thus cracking it up.
Was it really?! I didn't know Dublo locos suffered too - blimey! I don't know about high temperatures - I read that it's mainly humidity. I'd like to know if that's true. Even so, they'll still rot :( Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It seems to me that when it caused by humidity, the paint all blisters and the mazak turns to powder. When it's heat you get cracks, but I have not tested this hypothesis scientifically! I think you could do a Sam's Train's experiment - keep two identical mazak locos, one in the loft and one downstairs. Another more brutal Sam's Trains experiment would be to put the loco alternately in the freezer and then in the loft and see how quickly the mazak is affected! All good fun, thanks for uploading.
This is very common on wheels on O scale trains, especially Lionel standard gauge. Since most of the engines are made of sheet steel otherwise, it usually just requires new wheels and theyre good to go! Thanks for another great video
It is the bane of some very highly collectible pre-war Lionel pieces. Most notably their famous 700e O gauge scale 4-6-4 Hudson. Some poor fellows have watched their multi-thousand $/£ locos literally crumble to junk over the years. It's amazing to see it happen to a model produced in *this* century though. Don't need to ask where this is manufactured...
Good you brought this video Sam ! Mazak rot is a modeller's WORST enemy and has costed me once the equivalent of £500 !! A very expensive sound loco V320 from the Mercedes of German brands BRAWA !! After a few years it started derailing until it didn't even fit on the track anymore and guess what, both bogie chassis (made of diecast metal zinc) had transformed into "bananas" !! Complete devastation and stupid enough I ordered two new bogie chassis from Brawa and lost another £65 ........... I took the wreckage to my "Guru" who disappeared to New Zealand with the garbage never to be heard off again !! Total loss £565 !!! It still gives a terrible rotten taste in my mouth believe me ! Fingers crossed for the few Hornby's I have (a 87035 and Lord Rodney) ......... These were the most expensive "bananas" I have ever purchased and I couldn't even eat them ! Utter total FIASCO !
Terrible is an understatement Sam !! I have put a picture of the loco and those bananas on your Facebook messenger ......... Hopefully better news next time, this mazak rot drama was my worst and most expensive fiasco in modelrailroading. £565 straight into the bin, I am still so angry about it.
I've never had any of my Corgi or Dinky toys from the early sixties have this problem. On the other hand, I have seen Chinese supplied materials for aerospace use that simply didn't conform to specification.
I don't think that's true - I've heard of Margate-made models having this problem too - it's just that those are long gone now, rotted away years ago! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I must have between 30-40 Rovex, Triang, Triang-Hornby and Hornby Railways models from early 60's to early 90's and I've never had this problem with any of them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Wow...good job Sam on reviveing this model.... I had zinc pest on my expensive Brawa br 06 boiler ( model about 12+years old) it fell apart... A new boiler is soon to be bought but its an expensive part to order.
So sorry to hear that Simon - worth getting in touch with Hornby actually, as they have a new version of the 9F in stock. The fault is theirs, not yours... would be interesting to see if they'd replace it for you! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My hornby railroad 9f 92221's tender suffered from mazak rot (was bought in 2009). Also the valve gear snapped, so i sold it to a friend as a project. Fingers crossed it is my only rotted loco
Hi am, thus is Michael from the USA. I had this problem on a hissed Mantua 0-4-0 abolujt 50 years ago, I had not heard of this siituAtion since. I had no idea that kt was still a problem.
Hi Michael - sorry to hear that - it seems everyone except Hornby and Heljan have learned their lesson using cheap materials! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You have been lucky that only the motor mounts were affected. We know that as "zamak (yes , zamak) pest". And it's terrible. I bought some time ago two brand new ATLAS RS3, one for a friend and one for me. After a few months he went to take out his from the box...and ended holding only the hull. The rest of the engine was scattered on the floor. I had to purchase a new chassis for his RS3. I have seen some posts from people saying that they have repaired affected engines or rolling stock on initial status of the "disease" by using Super Glue, but as a general rule all you can do when zamak pest attacks is to get new material and deep six the old one.
Yes very lucky - I've seen far worse examples in the past! It is terrible - so sorry to hear about those, that's shocking! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had that issue same with the bogeys on a piece of rolling stock someone gave me, probably because it sat several harsh winters and brutally humid summers in an unheated and uncooled garage. I was able to repair it with Gorilla Glue and I was able to get it on the rails in one piece. Thankfully I've never had that issue with any of my locomotives before.
I've had a Mantua 4-6-2 locomotive that is absolutely riddled with the stuff, the whole body is a few big castings that have all got zinc pest and it has most of the bits dumped into its box. Believe it or not, the thing actually went back to the manufacturer's headquarters in New York and came back worse mechanically.
I had the frame of the motor in a slide projector break down. By the time I found it, the whole thing was quite soft, and very warped. Needless to say, it was a bin job. I never had it occur to a train though.
So far, my Hornby 9f is still intact, but 7 of 8 of my Hornby T9's have self destructed - the chassis crumbled. All my trains were kept in a temperature & humidity controlled environment and still they have problems. very sad. I am considering making Brass chassis for the T-9's. My father used to make his locos from scratch out of brass when he was a teenager, so it's not impossible.
I have a hornby model of Evening Star that I now realise may have died the same way, though I never investigated it at the time and it's just been a shelf decoration, this video may end up helping me bring it back to life!
@@SamsTrains I ended up opening it and found instead it suffered from a set of contacts being mangled and one of the gears slipping out of place, though since the gear in question is buried deep inside the chassis I've settled for just gently tapping it to get it back into place for now.
Dipping in vinegar is the worst thing you can do. It's the acetic acid in the air that converts via catalytic action the lead into white lead oxide. Where does the acetic acid come from, out gassing from every modern paint, plastic and foam. Fresh air flow will slow it down, but sealing in an air tight box makes it more likely to happen.
This Mazak rot problem is only confined to the Hornby locos made in China. Older "Built in Britain" Hornby, Triang Hornby and Triang Railways locos never have this problem, even as far back as the 1950's. Perhaps it the amount of Crapite (Tm) that Hornby China is using in the Mazak alloy mixture.
Mixing up a solution of isopropyl alcohol, acetic acid and citric acid, 8:1:1, applying it to the Mazak and then leaving for 15 minutes, before neutralising with sodium bicarbonate is a very good way of stopping Mazak dead in its tracks.
Hello Sam. Thanks for adding this! I have the same model with the same problem and I now know the reason why it's not working, so thanks! Do you know the item number on ebay for the replacement parts or the sellers name as I can't seem to find them? Also any idea how to remove the wheels from the tender? All 3 wheels have seized on mine and I can't work out how to remove them?
Thanks sam for the information on mazac rot. Congratulations on getting your 9F back on the rails. Can not wait to see more videos like. Also thank you for pointing out the facts that can effect the rot and how it is created. Take care
Hi Sam, I know that this is a bit late in this thread. But you could try the old Triang Hornby Britannia tender chassis. The one with the motor in the engine. The body should be a straight fit. That way you will get a full set of wheels. I know you had one of these loco's as you did a service video on it 4 years ago.
Hi Sam just to let you know and anyone else that has a problem with the tender chassis breaking up there is a guy on e bay selling a 3d printed replacement for this .Cheers Lester
My 9F, exactly the same as yours, is suffering big time in the tender. The wheels don't turn at all and it's just dragged along. Think I'll try your method of just gluing the wheels directly to the chassis. Can't find spare parts anywhere.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes that doesn't sound right, definitely worth investigating, it's a very common issue with these! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I don't think so, I'd never even heard of it before today. I do have an old locamotive that stopped working and it's symptoms are kinda similar to what you described before you took this one apart. I don't have the know how or the time to fix it up now, but I'm keeping it for now. Best case I'll fix it and it'll work, worst case I'll take the motor out of it and use it as weathering practice and scenery.
Hey Sam! Love your videos have been watching quite a few of them to learn and absorb information on 00 model railroading. Do you have any advice for someone in the USA who's just getting into the hobby
Hello Sam ... I love your videos ... I've learn'd a lot about model trains thanks to you. Keep on going ! ... Incidentally you speak about "mazac rot", I would like to point out that it is "Zamac, non mazac" .. (Z for zinc, A for aluminium, MA for magnesium and C for copper ... That's the composition of the alloy) ... Have a nice day
@@SamsTrains That's UK-History. Can be found on wikipedia. Zamac and Mazac are basically the same, but Mazak was a UK brand (using a patent to replace one of the US metals by locally UK produced metal) Thanks to wiki, as my first thought was the same... And I had this issue with a Roco SBB C5/6 steam loco. They used zamac (or mazac) for the whole tender interior. It blocked all moving parts on this tender driven loco. Luckily there was a recall so I got the whole tender replaced FOC. And mine was actually second hand bought at a rallye... (good warranty conditions ;-) )
hey sam recently had a old hornby 9f evening star given to me for my birthday today put her on track loco chassis crumbled thank god i got parts for it :)
I experience Zinc rot in a die cast HO camel back loco of my Dads that he got in the 1960s, fortunately only some components, and new parts were scratchbuilt. Both the Bachmann locos I got in the mid 1970s had Zinc rot one died after about 2 years, the other was teens of years old. I had heard of it occuring in the wheels a pre war hornby tinplate Queen Elizabeth. I have never heard of it occuring in triang or the older UK made Hornby engines. I read in Model railroader over 50 years ago. Lead contaminated Zinc usually comes from Zinc recycled from old car Batteries.
Ahh sorry to hear that Philip - it is a great shame! I never have had it happen with any Tri-ang locos either, but then again, if it was going to, it would have happened many years ago! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I am old enough to have run Triang when it was new in the shops. Possibly they did not use Mazac or zamac alloys and this avoided the problem.
Never heard of 'mazac rot' before Sam, thanks for pointing this out. Wonder if it's only a problem with Hornby or are Bachmann locos prone to the same problem....
No problem Steve - it is pretty nasty! I've never known a Bachmann loco suffer with this, but I'm told some of them have in the past! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam ,interesting vid .I have the same model as yourself 92221 and have experienced the same as you with this model .In fact the tender chassis completely disintegrated .I know you can,t get a new chassis for this model .I used a old ringfield motor ,taking off all the bits i didn,t need just to get it running again .I only have the 2 end axles now but it works just fine .The actual loco on this model is such a good and powerful engine that i really didn,t want to scrap it .Ps havn,t taken the loco body off as yet as it,s still running well !!!!
Hey Sam, I've had zinc-pest attack old double O stock but I have Lionel stuff going back to before WWII without any issues. However some newer production has it and you know where that comes from!
prewar Lionel Corp wheels have nearly all been replaced, good replacement castings being available from the immediate postwar period. original wheels in good shape are nearly unheard of. standard gauge suffering worse due to the sheer mass.
I had a problem with Mazak rot on one of my 9F's. But it was the back of the chassis that went.it actually snapped of the the main part of the chassis. But as you say it can affect any engine. I also lost a Riverossi Big Boy to this problem. Out of curiosity why did you not replace the middle wheel of the tender.
Ahh sorry to hear that Gerard, it's devastating really isn't it? The middle tender wheel had no bearing with it, so I couldn't just glue it inside the body as I did with the others! Merry Christmas - Sam :)
I had an even worse Mazak rot issue with my Hornby Gordon where after getting him out for the first time in over a decade the tender chassis was badly warped, but still usesable, untill I tried my luck to far. I've kept some of the disintergrated bits to use as freight/tuck ballast but the motor wires were beyond repair. However I was able to keep the same loco running by swapping the tender casing with my second 9F which had just had the loco's power wires snap forcing me to get a third. (Loco drive at last. Third time lucky!)
I glad that this loco of yours works again. I don't think that I would be able to throw away my old locos. Yes, they're actually quite ugly. You can see the wires through the non-existent cab window, but that first set was my best birthday present ever. If I had a problem like that and couldn't repair it, I'd probably keep it as a static display piece.
Really interesting Sam, Ive never seen that before, as I tend to buy old locos it is usfull info. As a side note it was nice to see some dcc, I've been going through your extensive (and excellent)back catalogue and it seems you used to do dcc+dc but you seem to stick to dc these days. Thanks.
Thanks a lot Matthew - glad this was interesting anyway! Yeah I don't often use DCC (DC is just easier), but I should do more digital videos! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've discovered the same thing going on with my Hornby Thomas(a second hand loco from around 2004) started with the rear coupling disintegrating and now the wheels refuse to turn. motor and wheels are alvagable thankfully and awaiting a new chassis. tempting to just get a replacement locomotive or go for the Bachmann one instead though I prefer the Hornby face
Had a few. Hornby T9 motor mounts - Fixed with a Peters Spares brass mount. Hornby Merchant Navy front Bogie - Fixed with a new front bogie Bachmann Class 42 Warship Chassis and bogie gear towers - SCRAP! Only thing good in the chassis was the motor and the wheels. Also had on a Dragon 1/72 Panther tank model - again scrap!
if anything has zinc pest you should replace it immediately, because the zinc also expands and can therefore damage sourrounding parts. I guess thats also what stopped the flywheel
Hi Sam. What an interesting video. I had never heard of masak rot. The weird thing is why they used the material in the first place. Lead would only be used to give the model weight; as you described the lead as an impurity, then the zinc doesn't make sense at all - why not just a strong plastic (does the mount need to be metal)?
Lead and zinc are the same colour. 'some of the early Dinky production was so plagued by zinc pest that a few batches of some models had already started falling apart by the time their boxes reached the toyshops. Investigation showed that the problem was due to people working in the factories "recycling" small pieces of soft scrap metal (such as lead tags) by throwing them into the mix - lead being fatal to the alloy's structural integrity.' www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Zinc_pest
Thanks very much Paul! Yes the lead is useful for weight, but its presence in mazak causes the material to degrade - the lead isn't intentionally included! Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Fun fact, when the German manufacturer Märklin had relocated a lot of its production to China, they had entire production runs of locomotives contaminated with bad zinc alloys. The older Köf II models come to mind immediately, which is a great shame because they were special liveries we probably won't see again. However, as far as I know Märklin moved its production back to Europe and hasn't had problems since.
Just a quick note to say you were the talk of our model railway club this week concerning the mazak rot. I have a T9 and my motor was found to have this rot, on phoning Hornby and spoke to a guy called Matt who to his credit was absolutely 1st class and said he was totally aware of the situation and offered to fix it if I posted my loco to him or would send me the part free of charge.Congratulations Hornby, I cant thank you enough. 1st class service from a 1st class company.
Plastic cancer, it's very sinister and is a complete model and toy destroyer
Sam’s Trains 2018: Trains.
Sam’s Trains 2019: Science experiments on trains.
Sam’s Trains 2020: Science lesson, with trains.
haha sorry if it was like a science lesson! XD
Sam’s trains 2021: SCIENCE!
yeah just throw away the trains Completely
Sam'sTrains Oh no, I quite enjoyed it, I like learning new things. L
Samstrains The Science Guy
Sam the tender can be repaired. I just fitted some hornby spoked wheels straight in. It's a bit tricky getting the pinpoint axles into the axle boxes but there are holes ready to accept them. This also means the pick ups can be put back too. The more common fault, especially with the super detail tender drive variant is for loco chassis rot. I managed to buy a chassis on eBay and replace. But be warned... although the "S####" part number is the same, the casting isn't. It took a lot of milling to get the body to sit right. This is same problem for loco drive too. What's more complete rebuild of the 9f is quite tricky. In fact if I had known how much trouble it would have caused me I wouldn't have bothered. Finally I just want to say that mazak pest affects ALL manufacturers, not just Hornby. One of the online forums has put together a while spreadsheet of models and their problems. Typically it affects batches, so as you say your T9 may have a bad motor mount, mine have all been fine. So the list online is specific to loco running number.
Hope this all helps.
Is that so?? I didn't realise there were holes - I'll look into that, thank you! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video I have had the same problem with my old Tyco engines and some of my old Bachmann they just fell apart. now I know why thanks a lot Sam your videos are so informative.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes it sucks doesn't it?! :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, yes, but probably not the Hornby loco you were expecting - it's in the range of (Hornby) Dinky Toys 1935 Silver Jubilee streamlined articulated set No16. Most of the pre-war trains - carriages and locos - the ones with the cut-out windows - suffer from Mazac rot. Very few still have all their couplings and wheels intact. They were still made post war, with garter blue A4 and teak coaches, and later still in BR Green, with "blood and custard" coaches. You don't often see a good silver and grey pre-war set. The Hornby Dublo pre-war clockwork locos (yes, 00 gauge clockwork) are also very difficult to find now in good condition.
Thanks for your cheerful and interesting videos, which are always a treat to watch now we are still confined to our homes. Cheers, Peter T.
Very interesting Peter - thanks for this, I'll look out for those! You're very kind mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
39 seconds, 2 views, 2 likes
*perfectly balanced as all things should be*
haha! xD
I had one loco with this problem a mainline GWR mogul the damage was terminal as the motor mount is part of the chassis. All my other locos (some very elderly) are ok. Glad you fixed the 9F.
Ahh sorry to hear that Paul - yes I've had issues with the Mainline locos too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Model Locomotive Expert: I know everything about trains!
Sam: you know I’m something of a model loco expert myself
Great video sam! I can’t wait for more! Also did you realise the tender was missing one set of wheels?
haha thanks mate! Yeah I did realise - the tender only has two sets of bearings, the middle axle just fitted into a slot, which crumbled away :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Morning Sam, I've had Mazak rot problems on the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navy. Got R2268 35027 Port Line out for a run and the front bogie wasn't spinning, was seized up completely. So I attempted to unscrew it and it just crumbled away...
Fortunately though I have a spare dead Merchant Navy being gradually cannibalised for spares so was able to replace the front bogie and now Port Line runs good as new. Worryingly though I can see some cracks in another of my Merchants.
Morning! Sorry to hear about your Merchant Navy - yes I've heard of the front bogies going bust before on those - completely unacceptable of course :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Some of the older MNs/BBs/WCs since about 2006 are a real pain especially when Hornby will currently not accept any loco over 10years old for repair, these are expensive items and shouldn’t happen even when stored carefully. Sam’s informative video on the Mazak/Zinc rot problem was as great and thorough as ever
2:57 those motor mounts look almost like the ones found on a older Athearn locomotive,
Ooh really? That's very interesting! :O
@@SamsTrains I could probably show you on Twitter, whenever I get around to it
I've been model railroading since 1957. This was a recurring problem back then, probably worse than this case. In America, the metal was called zamac. I haven't heard that word in decades until this transliteration. Thanks for resurrecting memories from my pioneer days..
Wow John, that's a long time! Great pity about this problem - fingers crossed the manufacturers have cracked it now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If any of my locomotives were irreparable, I’d keep them either as static display.
Yeah absolutely - that's a good idea! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Yeah, I'd keep 'em for static display too -- either as props for a scene, or just sitting on the mantle as a neat decoration. Especially with 3D printing these days - you could easily craft some simple non-functional parts to replace anything structural that dissolved. I did stuff like that back in my model railway days, but with a pocket knife and a bit of scrap wood! Alternatively, their non-rotting parts could be used to repair other locomotives, either for yourself, or your friends, or randos on ebay ;)
Yes. *Model Minutes* did just that the other day :D .
Madam rot. I learned something new today! Great video and learned a lot from this. I. Amazed how brittle the model had become. I’m a big fan of the 9f so was happy to see this return to service. Hope your well, Clint
Thanks Clint - yes it was shockingly brittle wasn't it?! :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well Zinkpest should be no issue on an 10 years old locomotive!
Thats a serious quality issue!
That's why you never buy hornby 👍
@@davidrobson1224 Never bought new Hornby. But have an old O-Gauge wagon from the 30s from them. No problems with these...
I wouldn't say never buy Hornby - the number of affected models is very low - but it's still unacceptable!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Paul Horn you do know other companies locos have also had these problems?
@@idonotlikeboats9328 In historic times, when there where O-Gauge clockwork trains, the Zinkpest was normal. In our age the only other company where I heard of such problems, was a little company from austria, which went bust some years ago.
Hi Sam, thanks for explaining 'mazak rot'. I have an Atlas n-gauge K4 where the chassis had swelled up, jamming the wheels (subsequently the motor burnt out!). When I tried to squeeze it back into shape, it crumbled to bits! Now I know why. I can't find a replacement so it will have to be 3-D printed. Keep 'em coming.
No problem mate - ahh sorry to hear that, that sounds like a classic case :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
5:00 I knocked on some wood for you!🤣
haha thank you! ;D
This is a worrying issue Sam, thank goodness you're there to keep us up to speed...Bob
Thanks Bob - yes it is terrible isn't it? Cheers mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Cheap Chinese metal i bet
Never known a Margate built loco suffer from zincpest. This only started when Hornby moved production china. Very poor quality control over there.
Yes I've heard Margate locos had this problem too - but in this case, yes it's cheap materials used in China!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
As a collector of old Tin toys i can certanly confirm that it's sometime a huge problem with very old zink based castings. If it's new made pieces t's most likly because they use very sheap sources for zink, the Zink component -must- be properly purified before it goes into the alloy in order to prevent zincpest apear soone ror later.
Monkey metal
The tender wheels probably just worn out I put loob on my wheels on my wagons/tenders
Good vid, Sam.
I had Mazak rot once thus, hopefully won't have a 2nd. Was removing a Hornby Toby motor to see if it would fit a different loco and the mount snapped off...errrm...so I tried to glue it back on, and with handling it the chassis literally snapped in half. Utter tripe!
I had a similar issuse with my Hornby Toby and I think Bill and Ben are the same.
Thanks very much! Sorry to hear that - that's not good at all - yes I've heard that too Taggart!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Today we have Sam's hulk impression
haha!! xD
Hi Sam,
Very informative. I was glad you were able to fix that model. It looks good now.
Jim
Thanks a lot Jim - I was very happy with this! :D
Two class 31's have had the problem (so far!). I'm fairly sure that this model was the first to display the issue. I could have contacted Hornby to ask for replacement chassis but, in the end, I decided to let them soldier on. It's only the extreme ends of the chassis which have suffered (to the extent that the body ends started to crack) and I simply removed the affected parts. I may come to regret that decision in the future!
Yes you're right about the 31 - they're very well known for the rot! Are they still in running order then?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, yes i have had 3 Hornby 9f tenders do this and i have replaced each chassis with lima class 37 or 47 bogie chassis parts which has sorted them out but the chassis of all the locos are ok. cheers , Alan.
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - that sounds great, good idea for a fix! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great work on fixing it! That crumbling was bad..... but still good advice on making sure your locos don’t have it... that 9f is so pretty I wish I i has one! But I am saving for one! A limited edition one! No: 92212! Evening star may be famous but the 9fs in black are so much more pretty! More me at lest!
Thanks Davis - yeah it was pretty bad - worth checking models before the warranty ends! Awesome - hope you get a 9F some day! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have this problem with One of my Hornby 0 gauge Locos. It is a 1932 Royal scot. The wheels are cracked quite badly but the previous owner has used a sort of epoxy resin. It works quite well. Thanks for sharing, this will probably help me out in the future.
Ahh that's a pity - interesting about the resin though!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Thanks for replying!
This is really useful. My DC railroad 9F hasn’t worked for some time. It makes a buzzing noise and doesn’t move like yours did. When I’ve had it apart in the past I’ve been able to get the motor to spin very happily but when together it won’t. I wonder if it needs the same parts replacing to get it to properly engage the gear and worm drive.
Ahh sorry to hear that - yes it could well have the same problem - sounds just like him!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam'sTrains I’ve had it open and found a loose connection to the motor which h I’ve fixed. Running better at the moment but the motor sometimes doesn’t like to start up. If I give the flywheel a spin it goes quite happily. I’ll keep working on it.
Thank you for an informative and interesting video.
I usually allow all advertisements to run their course as it seems fair to me that producers should enjoy the payments they receive from them.
However, a little earlier RUclips offered an advertisement lasting 88 minutes. It was in the form of a lecture. I chose to skip it after about a minute.
I don't know how this may affect you, but an advertisement eight times longer than the video was a surprise and you may wish to look into the matter.
No problem Peter, glad you enjoyed it! Good lord 88 minutes?! Unfortunately I don't have any control over the ads that get shown - though please don't feel inclined to watch ridiculously long ones on my account - I really appreciate your support!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’ve got one of those and had the same problem with the tender chassis, I sourced a replacement chassis for the tender off of ebay ,and it’s fine now , I had the loco body off the other day to fit a firebox glow effect and everything seems well .
Yes - it's a common issue with the tender chassis apparently! Great work finding a replacement - I'll have to look too!!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
My experience with Mazak rot wasn't model railway related, but it is Mazak rot nonetheless. Last Christmas, I got a beautiful triang minic model of my favourite ship. It was lovely and I played with it every day and took it to every occasion. It all started when I picked it up last week and noticed pitting and cracks in the rear funnel. I had seen this video and told my dad. My new triang minic Queen Elizabeth comes this Monday.
Say, Sam, I sent you a double story about real steamies: the first to get in on the act is a Spam Can Engine you have a model of, named Tangmere. The second, having to rush to Tangmere's aid, is King Edward 1st. One young man feels sorrow at learning Tired Tangmere can never run on the Main Line again, and gives up some spare cash in the hope of seeing her in steam further down the line. His compassionate thought for Tangmere earns him a footplate ride and driving experience with the GWR King. No prizes for guessing who the young man is. There's no keeping your figure a secret from anyone. By the way, glad you managed to save your model 9F from going to the scrapyard. You must really love her.
Thanks for the stories Kelly - I'll look out for those!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
great video.hence the need for a good parts backup from hornby..it was easy in the margate days for parts. just phone up !!
Yes this is true - though I was quite impressed at how easily I found the parts I needed for this! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I got the Mixed Freight train set from about 2016 last year, and both the locos in it suffered from Mazak Rot, and I've not yet been able to acquire the replacement parts needed to repair them.
Did they really?! I wasn't aware of this issue with those - blimey! I've only been able to repair this 9F and the T9 I had!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great bit of info, and a reassuring repair example.
Something I'm now going to check for with my stash of 00 for.
I had the dreaded mazak rot on a Hornby T9, your previous video on that was very useful when I fixed it last year, so thanks for that, she runs smooth as anything now!
Great to hear you fixed it mate - well done! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Mazak was used in the Car industry as well. My 1953 A70 Hereford had chrome-plated door handles, boot handle, front grille and the "Flying A" on the front of the bonnet. (which was also the bonnet catch) You did see the derailed Wagon then. Martin. (Thailand)
Oh really?! Did they crumble away too then? :O
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Yes, but under the chrome. That is why I wanted them rechromed.
These days you could 3d print replacement parts... They would not help as much with weight though
Nice job, enjoyed that one, noticed the Tilman wagon next to the brake van was de-railed !!!!
Thank you! haha well spotted!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Just this week my 9f is up and running. I purchased a motor housing from Peters Spares and a new block to house the tender wheels from a chap off ebay who had 3d printed one. My wheels were ok.
I have an O scale Lionel 1664 (1947 vintage?) loco with rotting drive wheels. Trying to deal with some missing teeth and chunks out of tires and flanges. I dare not attempt to pull them until there are replacements in my possession.
Ahh sorry to hear that - all the best with it mate!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam glad you got the 9 F up and running as you know it happened to my T 9 but i got it sorted thanks to you cheers mate.
Thanks a lot Tony - yes sorry to hear that, but glad it was all okay in the end! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
Sadly, I've had this happen to one of my locos. A few years ago, my Hornby Class 31's chassis crumbled and broke into three. It remains in that state today (although, I do have a newer Class 31 which hasn't suffered from this problem).
Good to see the 9F fixed, though!
Sorry to hear that Chris - yes the 31 is very well known for that :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Well done Sam. I have had to failures one was my 40 year old Hornby class 91 225 and the other 22 year old King George Vth. Both failed on the drive gear that turns the gears. I replaced them with brass that should last a bit longer.
Thanks a lot Philip - sorry to hear that, glad you were able to fix them up though! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've had mazak rot in two loco's so far, Hornby Rebuilt Patriot, (Chassis and Motor Mounts) and Hornby Standard 4 (Motor Mounts), in both cases, it's been secondhand or scratchbuilt replacements for me as I've had nothing but trouble and double-talk ordering these from Hornby themselves. Again I agree Peters Spares is a goldmine for those hard to get spares.
Sorry to hear that Frank - yes both of those are known for those failures - it's a great shame :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I’m glad you could save her! My Q1 has stopped moving suddenly I don’t know if it needs a service or what. I have officially been a fan of this channel for a year
Loved the video
-Ollie
Yeah I'd take a look mate - see if there's anything you can do to fix it! Thanks so much for the support Ollie! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Sam I am glad you were able to fix your 9F they are fantastic locomotives. I also have a 9F Evening Star well I had 2 the first one I had was the older ring filled motor in the tender it lasted for 2 months then the motor started to smell like a burning smell. I took it to my local model shop to see if it could be fixed and unfortunately it was dead. So I waited a few month as Hornby was bringing out a loco driven 9F so I got that one and she's running very well now. Enjoyed this video very much. Stay safe and take care.
Thanks Stu - yes they are lovely models indeed! Sorry to hear about yours mate :'(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I got my first train set in 1980. It was a Märklin set. It was in a box for over 20 years until 2011. When I took it out and put it on the track, it drove off as happily as before it went into that box.
Oh wow - that's exactly what you want!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam thanks for this video. Thought I'd check out my Hornby Evening Star. Haven't used it for ages and sure enough strange noise and no movement. Also tender wheels siezed up. What a mess. Must admit was in the loft. Got the motor covers and modified tender chassis coming from ebay. Was surprised to see the ringfield skeleton in the tender.
zamac in the US. It's very prevalent in die-cast cars, especially larger scales such as 1:43 and larger, and made in the former Soviet bloc. I've seen dozens of 1:43 cars that had turned to basically sand and crumbled in the hand. I think the problem is too much zinc in the mix, and yes, moisture/humidity is a big factor. I've also seen this in 1;64 cars, such as Hot Wheels, Playart, Johnny Lightning, ERTL, but it's not as common.
Ahh is that so? Such a shame that lovely models have to fail due to this :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Mazak rot was always a problem on those old Dublo locos, but I have never encountered it with modern DCC ready locos! This is a serious quality control issue. I think it is exacerbated by damp as you say, but in the case of Dublo models, the rot affects the exterior of the bodywork and not the inside as has happened here. I think the cause of the interior rot is high temperatures. In light of this, I would remove such locos from the loft during the summer. Put them under the floorboards! The problem with a loft is a considerable temperature fluctuation causing repeated expansion and contraction of the Mazak, thus cracking it up.
Was it really?! I didn't know Dublo locos suffered too - blimey! I don't know about high temperatures - I read that it's mainly humidity. I'd like to know if that's true. Even so, they'll still rot :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It seems to me that when it caused by humidity, the paint all blisters and the mazak turns to powder. When it's heat you get cracks, but I have not tested this hypothesis scientifically! I think you could do a Sam's Train's experiment - keep two identical mazak locos, one in the loft and one downstairs. Another more brutal Sam's Trains experiment would be to put the loco alternately in the freezer and then in the loft and see how quickly the mazak is affected! All good fun, thanks for uploading.
This is very common on wheels on O scale trains, especially Lionel standard gauge. Since most of the engines are made of sheet steel otherwise, it usually just requires new wheels and theyre good to go!
Thanks for another great video
Was it really?! It really is a horrible problem!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains It was the same with hot wheels cars from the 60s and 70s
It is the bane of some very highly collectible pre-war Lionel pieces. Most notably their famous 700e O gauge scale 4-6-4 Hudson. Some poor fellows have watched their multi-thousand $/£ locos literally crumble to junk over the years.
It's amazing to see it happen to a model produced in *this* century though. Don't need to ask where this is manufactured...
Good you brought this video Sam ! Mazak rot is a modeller's WORST enemy and has costed me once the equivalent of £500 !! A very expensive sound loco V320 from the Mercedes of German brands BRAWA !! After a few years it started derailing until it didn't even fit on the track anymore and guess what, both bogie chassis (made of diecast metal zinc) had transformed into "bananas" !!
Complete devastation and stupid enough I ordered two new bogie chassis from Brawa and lost another £65 ........... I took the wreckage to my "Guru" who disappeared to New Zealand with the garbage never to be heard off again !! Total loss £565 !!! It still gives a terrible rotten taste in my mouth believe me ! Fingers crossed for the few Hornby's I have (a 87035 and Lord Rodney) ......... These were the most expensive "bananas" I have ever purchased and I couldn't even eat them ! Utter total FIASCO !
Thanks Jan - yes it's terrible isn't it - so sorry to hear you've had the problem too, that's a real blow :(
Terrible is an understatement Sam !! I have put a picture of the loco and those bananas on your Facebook messenger ......... Hopefully better news next time, this mazak rot drama was my worst and most expensive fiasco in modelrailroading. £565 straight into the bin, I am still so angry about it.
I wasn't aware of Mazak Rot beforehand, but I'll have to keep an eye out for it in the future, so thank you for the warning.
Thanks Patrick, yeah it's worth looking out for it!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I've never had any of my Corgi or Dinky toys from the early sixties have this problem. On the other hand, I have seen Chinese supplied materials for aerospace use that simply didn't conform to specification.
Yep. I reckon it's a pretty safe bet that mazac rot is only to be found in locos produced from 1995 after production stopped at the Margate factory.
I don't think that's true - I've heard of Margate-made models having this problem too - it's just that those are long gone now, rotted away years ago!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains
I must have between 30-40 Rovex, Triang, Triang-Hornby and Hornby Railways models from early 60's to early 90's and I've never had this problem with any of them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
Wow...good job Sam on reviveing this model....
I had zinc pest on my expensive Brawa br 06 boiler ( model about 12+years old) it fell apart...
A new boiler is soon to be bought but its an expensive part to order.
Thanks a lot mate! Ahh sorry to hear that - that's awful :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
All this happened to mine last weekend..Motor mountings, tender chasis and part of the motor housing all gone.
So sorry to hear that Simon - worth getting in touch with Hornby actually, as they have a new version of the 9F in stock. The fault is theirs, not yours... would be interesting to see if they'd replace it for you!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
My hornby railroad 9f 92221's tender suffered from mazak rot (was bought in 2009). Also the valve gear snapped, so i sold it to a friend as a project. Fingers crossed it is my only rotted loco
Sorry to hear that mate, yes it's very common with the tenders :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi am, thus is Michael from the USA. I had this problem on a hissed Mantua 0-4-0 abolujt 50 years ago, I had not heard of this siituAtion since. I had no idea that kt was still a problem.
Hi Michael - sorry to hear that - it seems everyone except Hornby and Heljan have learned their lesson using cheap materials!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Even though the 9F for hornby has somewhat been a lemon, it's still a Beautiful Model,
Great vid Sam.
Yeah they certainly are beautiful models - hopefully the most recent releases won't have those Mazak problems!
I have the same issue with some of my old F7s. When I took the shell off, the frame crumbled.
You have been lucky that only the motor mounts were affected. We know that as "zamak (yes , zamak) pest". And it's terrible. I bought some time ago two brand new ATLAS RS3, one for a friend and one for me. After a few months he went to take out his from the box...and ended holding only the hull. The rest of the engine was scattered on the floor. I had to purchase a new chassis for his RS3. I have seen some posts from people saying that they have repaired affected engines or rolling stock on initial status of the "disease" by using Super Glue, but as a general rule all you can do when zamak pest attacks is to get new material and deep six the old one.
Yes very lucky - I've seen far worse examples in the past! It is terrible - so sorry to hear about those, that's shocking!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had that issue same with the bogeys on a piece of rolling stock someone gave me, probably because it sat several harsh winters and brutally humid summers in an unheated and uncooled garage. I was able to repair it with Gorilla Glue and I was able to get it on the rails in one piece. Thankfully I've never had that issue with any of my locomotives before.
Sorry to hear that mate - it is awful isn't it? Glad you ere able to make some repairs!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
How old was your locomotive when it started rotting?
I've had a Mantua 4-6-2 locomotive that is absolutely riddled with the stuff, the whole body is a few big castings that have all got zinc pest and it has most of the bits dumped into its box.
Believe it or not, the thing actually went back to the manufacturer's headquarters in New York and came back worse mechanically.
Ahh sorry to hear that mate - it's such a nuisance isn't it?! :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I have the same loco, I have the same issue with it galling apart particularly on the tender, but I haven't checked the motor or anything else
Ahh sorry to hear that - it seems a very common issue :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I had the frame of the motor in a slide projector break down. By the time I found it, the whole thing was quite soft, and very warped. Needless to say, it was a bin job. I never had it occur to a train though.
So far, my Hornby 9f is still intact, but 7 of 8 of my Hornby T9's have self destructed - the chassis crumbled. All my trains were kept in a temperature & humidity controlled environment and still they have problems. very sad. I am considering making Brass chassis for the T-9's. My father used to make his locos from scratch out of brass when he was a teenager, so it's not impossible.
I have a hornby model of Evening Star that I now realise may have died the same way, though I never investigated it at the time and it's just been a shelf decoration, this video may end up helping me bring it back to life!
Ahh interesting - yes it could well have been that - worth having a look!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I ended up opening it and found instead it suffered from a set of contacts being mangled and one of the gears slipping out of place, though since the gear in question is buried deep inside the chassis I've settled for just gently tapping it to get it back into place for now.
Dipping in vinegar is the worst thing you can do. It's the acetic acid in the air that converts via catalytic action the lead into white lead oxide. Where does the acetic acid come from, out gassing from every modern paint, plastic and foam. Fresh air flow will slow it down, but sealing in an air tight box makes it more likely to happen.
haha is that so? I must say I've never tried it, but it's a suggestion I read about!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
This Mazak rot problem is only confined to the Hornby locos made in China. Older "Built in Britain" Hornby, Triang Hornby and Triang Railways locos never have this problem, even as far back as the 1950's.
Perhaps it the amount of Crapite (Tm) that Hornby China is using in the Mazak alloy mixture.
Yes that seems to be true - I've never seen a British-built loco suffer this problem!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Thanks for that. Never realised, so I’ll be getting my very old trains out and checking them!
Good luck Tony, fingers crossed yours are fine!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Mixing up a solution of isopropyl alcohol, acetic acid and citric acid, 8:1:1, applying it to the Mazak and then leaving for 15 minutes, before neutralising with sodium bicarbonate is a very good way of stopping Mazak dead in its tracks.
Are you sure?! I've never heard about that - does it work?!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hello Sam. Thanks for adding this! I have the same model with the same problem and I now know the reason why it's not working, so thanks! Do you know the item number on ebay for the replacement parts or the sellers name as I can't seem to find them? Also any idea how to remove the wheels from the tender? All 3 wheels have seized on mine and I can't work out how to remove them?
Thanks sam for the information on mazac rot. Congratulations on getting your 9F back on the rails. Can not wait to see more videos like. Also thank you for pointing out the facts that can effect the rot and how it is created. Take care
No problem Luke, thanks a lot mate - I was very glad to do it!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam, I know that this is a bit late in this thread. But you could try the old Triang Hornby Britannia tender chassis. The one with the motor in the engine. The body should be a straight fit. That way you will get a full set of wheels. I know you had one of these loco's as you did a service video on it 4 years ago.
Hey!! That sounds very interesting - yeah I could totally look into that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, let me know if it works..... :)
Sam I have a merchant navy, a3 and black 5 made between 2005-2012 could these get mazac rot?
I'm not sure mate - it's worth just checking them over!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam just to let you know and anyone else that has a problem with the tender chassis breaking up there is a guy on e bay selling a 3d printed replacement for this .Cheers Lester
Ahh yes I did see that Lester, thanks a lot for the info! :D
Cheers,
Sam :)
My 9F, exactly the same as yours, is suffering big time in the tender. The wheels don't turn at all and it's just dragged along. Think I'll try your method of just gluing the wheels directly to the chassis. Can't find spare parts anywhere.
Sorry to hear that mate - yes that doesn't sound right, definitely worth investigating, it's a very common issue with these!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
You could 3d print a part for the tender to hold the wheels axels and the pickups whilst putting lead weights in to give it its weight back.
I don't think so, I'd never even heard of it before today.
I do have an old locamotive that stopped working and it's symptoms are kinda similar to what you described before you took this one apart.
I don't have the know how or the time to fix it up now, but I'm keeping it for now.
Best case I'll fix it and it'll work, worst case I'll take the motor out of it and use it as weathering practice and scenery.
Glad to hear that mate - it seems not too many models suffer from this (thank goodness!), all the best with it mate! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey Sam! Love your videos have been watching quite a few of them to learn and absorb information on 00 model railroading. Do you have any advice for someone in the USA who's just getting into the hobby
Hello Sam ... I love your videos ... I've learn'd a lot about model trains thanks to you. Keep on going ! ... Incidentally you speak about "mazac rot", I would like to point out that it is "Zamac, non mazac" .. (Z for zinc, A for aluminium, MA for magnesium and C for copper ... That's the composition of the alloy) ... Have a nice day
Thanks very much Guy, that's lovely to read. Duly noted on that - I wasn't aware that these weren't mazak!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains That's UK-History. Can be found on wikipedia. Zamac and Mazac are basically the same, but Mazak was a UK brand (using a patent to replace one of the US metals by locally UK produced metal) Thanks to wiki, as my first thought was the same...
And I had this issue with a Roco SBB C5/6 steam loco. They used zamac (or mazac) for the whole tender interior. It blocked all moving parts on this tender driven loco. Luckily there was a recall so I got the whole tender replaced FOC. And mine was actually second hand bought at a rallye... (good warranty conditions ;-) )
hey sam recently had a old hornby 9f evening star given to me for my birthday today put her on track loco chassis crumbled thank god i got parts for it :)
Sorry to hear that Dan - did you manage to get it running okay? :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
I experience Zinc rot in a die cast HO camel back loco of my Dads that he got in the 1960s, fortunately only some components, and new parts were scratchbuilt. Both the Bachmann locos I got in the mid 1970s had Zinc rot one died after about 2 years, the other was teens of years old. I had heard of it occuring in the wheels a pre war hornby tinplate Queen Elizabeth. I have never heard of it occuring in triang or the older UK made Hornby engines. I read in Model railroader over 50 years ago. Lead contaminated Zinc usually comes from Zinc recycled from old car Batteries.
Ahh sorry to hear that Philip - it is a great shame! I never have had it happen with any Tri-ang locos either, but then again, if it was going to, it would have happened many years ago!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
@@SamsTrains I am old enough to have run Triang when it was new in the shops. Possibly they did not use Mazac or zamac alloys and this avoided the problem.
Never heard of 'mazac rot' before Sam, thanks for pointing this out. Wonder if it's only a problem with Hornby or are Bachmann locos prone to the same problem....
No problem Steve - it is pretty nasty! I've never known a Bachmann loco suffer with this, but I'm told some of them have in the past!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam ,interesting vid .I have the same model as yourself 92221 and have experienced the same as you with this model .In fact the tender chassis completely disintegrated .I know you can,t get a new chassis for this model .I used a old ringfield motor ,taking off all the bits i didn,t need just to get it running again .I only have the 2 end axles now but it works just fine .The actual loco on this model is such a good and powerful engine that i really didn,t want to scrap it .Ps havn,t taken the loco body off as yet as it,s still running well !!!!
Thanks Lester - sorry to hear you've had the same problem. Great idea with the ring-field motor though - I like that!! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hey Sam, I've had zinc-pest attack old double O stock but I have Lionel stuff going back to before WWII without any issues. However some newer production has it and you know where that comes from!
Yup. I never saw any Lionels affected by this.
Yeah - some batches are fine forever, some not - it's unfortunate :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
prewar Lionel Corp wheels have nearly all been replaced, good replacement castings being available from the immediate postwar period. original wheels in good shape are nearly unheard of. standard gauge suffering worse due to the sheer mass.
I had a problem with Mazak rot on one of my 9F's. But it was the back of the chassis that went.it actually snapped of the the main part of the chassis. But as you say it can affect any engine. I also lost a Riverossi Big Boy to this problem. Out of curiosity why did you not replace the middle wheel of the tender.
Ahh sorry to hear that Gerard, it's devastating really isn't it? The middle tender wheel had no bearing with it, so I couldn't just glue it inside the body as I did with the others!
Merry Christmas - Sam :)
I had an even worse Mazak rot issue with my Hornby Gordon where after getting him out for the first time in over a decade the tender chassis was badly warped, but still usesable, untill I tried my luck to far. I've kept some of the disintergrated bits to use as freight/tuck ballast but the motor wires were beyond repair. However I was able to keep the same loco running by swapping the tender casing with my second 9F which had just had the loco's power wires snap forcing me to get a third. (Loco drive at last. Third time lucky!)
Sorry to hear that mate - I've never known the Hornby Gordon to be a culprit - is everything okay now??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I found this problem with the Hornby Schools Class. I am having a new chassis cast in resin.
I glad that this loco of yours works again. I don't think that I would be able to throw away my old locos. Yes, they're actually quite ugly. You can see the wires through the non-existent cab window, but that first set was my best birthday present ever. If I had a problem like that and couldn't repair it, I'd probably keep it as a static display piece.
Me too - I would have hated having to throw a loco away like that :(
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Finally your Hornby 9F is fixed I hope you fixed the bachmann 9F using your same technique
Really interesting Sam, Ive never seen that before, as I tend to buy old locos it is usfull info. As a side note it was nice to see some dcc, I've been going through your extensive (and excellent)back catalogue and it seems you used to do dcc+dc but you seem to stick to dc these days. Thanks.
Thanks a lot Matthew - glad this was interesting anyway! Yeah I don't often use DCC (DC is just easier), but I should do more digital videos! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Peters spares is awesome I ordered flying Scotsman Wind deflectors they fit perfectly
I've discovered the same thing going on with my Hornby Thomas(a second hand loco from around 2004) started with the rear coupling disintegrating and now the wheels refuse to turn. motor and wheels are alvagable thankfully and awaiting a new chassis. tempting to just get a replacement locomotive or go for the Bachmann one instead though I prefer the Hornby face
Ahh so sorry to hear that mate - hope all is better with the new chassis!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Had a few.
Hornby T9 motor mounts - Fixed with a Peters Spares brass mount.
Hornby Merchant Navy front Bogie - Fixed with a new front bogie
Bachmann Class 42 Warship Chassis and bogie gear towers - SCRAP! Only thing good in the chassis was the motor and the wheels.
Also had on a Dragon 1/72 Panther tank model - again scrap!
Yes me too Tim - good job Peter's spares had those! Didn't know the Bachmann 42 was a problem too - oh dear!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
if anything has zinc pest you should replace it immediately, because the zinc also expands and can therefore damage sourrounding parts. I guess thats also what stopped the flywheel
Ahh is that so?? I wasn't aware of that, duly noted!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam. What an interesting video. I had never heard of masak rot. The weird thing is why they used the material in the first place. Lead would only be used to give the model weight; as you described the lead as an impurity, then the zinc doesn't make sense at all - why not just a strong plastic (does the mount need to be metal)?
Lead and zinc are the same colour.
'some of the early Dinky production was so plagued by zinc pest that a few batches of some models had already started falling apart by the time their boxes reached the toyshops. Investigation showed that the problem was due to people working in the factories "recycling" small pieces of soft scrap metal (such as lead tags) by throwing them into the mix - lead being fatal to the alloy's structural integrity.'
www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Zinc_pest
Thanks very much Paul! Yes the lead is useful for weight, but its presence in mazak causes the material to degrade - the lead isn't intentionally included!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Hi Sam
I have a T9 that hasn't been out of the box in years. I'm hoping it's not got zinc rot as it one of my favorite models😬
It's worth checking it mate - though replacement motor mounts are available if so! :D
Thanks for watching - Sam :)
Great video, very informative.
Fun fact, when the German manufacturer Märklin had relocated a lot of its production to China, they had entire production runs of locomotives contaminated with bad zinc alloys. The older Köf II models come to mind immediately, which is a great shame because they were special liveries we probably won't see again.
However, as far as I know Märklin moved its production back to Europe and hasn't had problems since.
Oh wow really?! At the prices Marklin charge, that's totally unacceptable - blimey!
Thanks for watching - Sam :)