Thank you! You are a great source of inspiration. There's something I had to let you know, if you lookup Eyetrauma's comment he pointed to your PCIex and Win98 clip and while going over it I realized that you made it with the 939Dual-Sata2 you just needed to uninstall the x850 and point to the drivers' folder once windows restarted, also sebastian19745 is relevant for that Code 12 error message.
Thanks I will try it with a further project. I plan on doing a second part and really give the 6800GS a fighting chance. If you want to see other parts just leave a message.
Recently I spotted one on the local market and I never knew there were 478 socket with PCIE-x, got love Asrock for their motherboards. One of the best, if not the best AGP and PCIe-x combo motherboard is from Asrock dual vsta. Great video.
Its time will come. Incidentally I used one in the making of this clip. I had to know if the 6800gs was defective or if the on-board integrated Intel gma 950 was ruining the 6800gs experience for me. The answer was inconclusive as I also got artefacts after installation with that one too.
That is a really good idea and I commend you for it. I have personally run a PCI to PCI-E adapter in a Socket 8 Pentium Pro with a GT710, Windows 2000 with drivers.
Just for fun and curiosity. I always wanted to push these computers to the max. It had a ssd too on the IDE to sata bridge which always feels super fast to me.
Wow, that's taking it to extreme :). Personally I also plan a look at a socket 8 but I would prefer a conventional approach. Any reccomandations for the OS? I kind of inclined towards NT4 but many people use win 2000.
@@retrodrive-thru47 The thing to consider with NT based OS is that they are extremely stable because of the Hardware Abstraction Layer or HAL. That is why the minimum CPU jumped from from 40 MHz to 233 MHz from Windows 95 to Windows XP (Vista was egregious at 600 MHz). It takes more CPU to run a HAL, the trade off is less blue screens. An ideal computer that used most of the CPU power you gave it would run Windows 95 with updated drivers and software but we won't get that until that OS becomes Open Source.You might look at 98 SE as I believe many drivers exist for it and it is still HALless. There was even a version of Crysis Maximum edition that said it supported 98 SE but no one ever tested it.
@@ChristopherKubilus-k8e OK, I know about HAL but personally I don't find it taking away performance. If you have the patience for another clip on this channel, Best retro OS by comparison, using a p4 2.4ghz I've come to the conclusion that windows xp is faster using that cpu than windows 98 for most of the tests. So from a performance point of view the newer versions of windows are more efficient with the hardware. That video in itself may not very well made since it was the second I've done but to me was on of the hottest topics I could think of and I plan to follow it up with other CPUs and configurations as soon as I figure out why the AMD had the issues.
@@retrodrive-thru47Don't forget there is plenty of variation in Drivers as well. Oldest drivers for newer hardware often neglect older hardware. I think in specifics of the Graphic Cards. All I know is you can't run Windows XP on a i386.
Yes, it wasn't my initial intention. I just wanted to see if pciex could be used with windows 98. And I was very lucky to get so many responses to fix the issues in this clip.
I always look forward to your videos. They are so well-made, and your voice is so relaxing - I could listen to you talk for hours! I hope you keep making content, and I hope you get many more subscribers!
Thank you! I'm glad you find it relaxing but I'm not quite sure about the voice. I guess to everyone their voice sounds a bit weird when you hear it played back.
There is either something going on with your Wind98 setup or with the drivers themselves. The fastest video card that I have been able to get working in Windows 98SE with the modded drivers is the Geforce 7900GTX. Those modded drivers supposedly support the original 8800 GTX chips but I have not been able to get any of them working. Benching with 3DMark and a C2E x6800 at 3.2-3.3Ghz is amazing. Running dual channel RAM should also help your scores a bit.
Yes, the comments made some light onto the issues I've encounter. So I have to create another video in the future, fortunately I have more odd Asrock motherboards that fit this concept.
those "modded" drivers are really text edits to the original driver. the person who edited those driver INF text probably didn't really realize that later 8000 series NVIDIA cards don't share the same architecture as the 6 and 7 series geforce graphics chipsets but still included them anyway which led to many confusion on the web.
Mine was a Core 2 Quad Q8200 paired with a Geforce 7900 GTO and a Soundblaster Audigy 2. The motherboard was the Asus P5KPL AM-SE. It only worked with the 82.69 Unofficial Drivers, so compatibility was okayish. For some very specific older Windows games to work, I had to deactivate hardware acceleration for the graphics card and restart the PC, which was a bit annoying. For DOS games, I just used DOS Box in Windows 98. There are a few sound cards that were able to run games in DOS with this configuration, but I had to disable USB in the BIOS (because of IRQ conflicts). And I also had it on dual boot with Windows XP. Then the graphics card kinda died on me and I went for a Geforce 6200LE, which was more compatible overall but too slow for Windows XP gaming.
I'm glad to see more people out there experimenting with weird Windows 98 hardware. Though I'm even more amazed to see you got an X850 to work for so long! My "Worlds Fastest 98 PC" build went through about 8 of the poor things before I finally gave up and stuck to Nvidia. Though I didn't experience weird graphical artifacts with my 7800 GTX
The x850xt could be stable as long as you wish. Once the driver was "installed" I couldn't find any issues with it. As for wierd hardware, Asrock was king in that day.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Mine all seemed to succumb to the lead-free solder issue with their RAM chips which kept the system from POST-ing. Maybe one day I'll try again to get a working one
@@CursedSilicon I have an x850 with that exact those symptoms, or maybe I have 2 :)), and an X800 AGP. I don't have the skills and tools for this, maybe some day I will.
Thank you. I'm now considering the possibility of a second clip with another motherboard that has a VIA chipset that I hope has better compatibility, and it also has 3 PCIs so either a Sound Blaster live and 2 Voodoo2s or a soundblaster, an A3D and a voodoo. Also I don't like loose ends and I think that the 6800GS from this clip can really do 98 rather good so I need to try it with another motherboard.
The conflict at 8:30 is between RadeonX850 primary and Standard VGA also Primary. I would delete the Standard VGA card instead of disabling the primary Radeon. Actually you have two drivers fighting for the same resources and only one card. It happened to me sometimes to have issues with vidoe cards because of the same fail in Win98. After I removed the standard VGA, the new installed driver kicked in and all was working well. Actually at 8:34 the message tells you exactly that: disable the Standard VGA.
I recently purchased a pair of GF6600 PCIe to play around with like this, I have the corresponding AGP variants of these at hand too. just to see what works and not with my newer stuff even if I have a ton of old gear working
I bought it broken, repaired it but the SB failed and it was the end of it. I was very curious on how it would have behaved with W98 as a retro pc. Guess I have my answer :) I had one broken component that I couldn't identify, could you give me the markings on component Q748 (on the right of ram slots, close to hole H6)?
I hope I covered as much as possible for your answer. The markings say "M098" on the componet Q748. I also have another clip in mind with an ASRock P4VM890 and a few other Radeons and Nvidias. The VIA should have better compatibility and maybe the 6800GS would behave this time.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Well, it is an oddity. Usually I associate s.478 with DDR, not DDR2 + PCIe. The main problem faced by most is drivers, but you got it covered. ASROCK spat out a lot of those strange boards. Even s.939 with AM3+ chispets, that obviously are rare and cost a fortune. Thanks for the help, thanks for the video!!
4:10 this type of chip is still today on every pcie device now it is called a pcie bridge chip. this thing serves now more than a converting something, it contains the device type, id, vendor information and such usefull things also it handles the hot plug funktion and device isolation so in case something goes wrong the pcie bus is not damaged, shorted or distorted. it prevents cross talking and strengthening the signal integrity. also it does the power control of the device. one thing to pci and pcie this is ,it can be hijacked. pcie or pci devices that working like a master system can parasitic hijack some datelines so the pc cant access them. intel nuc cards with a pcie shaped edge board connector doing this if placed in a normal pc mainbord instead in its special designed mainbords. on start up both systems fighting against each other and who is faster with testing signal dampening and setting up its configuration and its signal pattern wins over that particular line and all ports and devices are connected with the same line are nor onder the controll of the winner. in a pcie system this can be mean the parasitic device has the control over the chip set and therefore the pc looses the full access the its own chip set. for example you have a mainbord with a B550 chip set and putting in a x4 pcie slot your intel nuc compute card and this pcie slot is directed or handled by the cpip set because your cpu has not enough pcie lanes as your manboard has. in that chase some of them are handled by the cpip set. the problem is here now the B550 is compatible with the N100 cpu because the N100 is a normal i3 internal with minor differences and also the chip set itself is connected over 4 pcie lanes to a cpu with lanes are used is does not matter and this chip set controls over 80% of all io of your mainbord so your cpu looses the ability to use all this io. now you have a cpu in your mainbord doing nothing or is limited in its action and maybe is in panic mode and shutdown but your nuc can now use all your usb ports. your additonal pcie lanes thats not provided by the cpu and has access to your haddrives and all that. i know this sound weird but this can happen that is why those cards have a bridge chip. but fortunately there are practically none pcie or pci cards in the wild that can do this except for some reason intel thinks this was a good idea making a pc shaped like a pcie card and also making an pcie pin compatible connector that fits in the same connector on the mainboard. so people thinks yayy now i can have a pc in my pc and now those people findig it self in this weird situation. like me ^^ i have reading many articals to understand why this at first glance random things happen. i have lerned a lot how those things really work and wonder why some features are so rare like port bifurcation and detached or isolated mode and such things also Why PCIe on some motherboards, especially gaming motherboards, do not adhere to the standard and omit features, which leads to problems in future applications. for example using it as a home server. Some PCIe cards will simply not work or function incorrectly. And thanks to the "improvements or optimizations" you also have no way of isolating the card and debugging it in a running system. And from external inspection you won't find any errors that are caused by software and that's all just so you get fed up with 301 fps in games 300. or simply because the manufacturer has enough space on the bios chip just so that you have pretty colorful graphics that you can see once and you won't be able to go into the bios for the next 10 years because you have set everything you need and don't want anything more change.
The use of such chips came at the cost of latency. Thats why there was almost no difference in between AGP 4X or 8X vs PCI-E. Even till this day you'll see higher end cards still scaling well on even PCI-E 1.
I did compare AGP vs PCI-E a while back on the channel (granted it was 3850 and 7900) but I also did this kind of comparison for myself a few years ago and it usually turns out (if you do it on a motherboard with a good implementation of AGP and PCI-E) that if you have graphics cards with the same frequencies they are equal. The manufacturers usually have slightly higher memory on the PCI-E therefore sometimes these need to be underclocked a bit. But it's a good idea for a future video. Maybe I can do a series with all the couples of PCI-E - AGP cards I have, as I have specifically collected many similar cards like that.
I have a motherboard in reverse so to say. It has a socket 775 with an AGP slot. The upside is that it's easier to find high clock cpus for cheap compared to finding s478s at the same speeds. I've ran a 3,2Ghz Dual core with geforce 3 ti 200 on windows 98 with no issue. It doesn't recognize the second core though. I haven't tried it but you could technically put a 771 x5650 Xeon into it with the pinmod but it wouldn't do much for performance.
Yes, I've tried that too. I actually had a retro Pc with a asrock 4coredual, an e5800 and a GF 3 ti 200 for about 5-6 years maybe more. It was great fun. It also works with e Xeon e5450 but you need some bios modding to get all instructions available.
Surprised you had so many problems with the nVidia cards. Way back when Phil posted his PCIe 98 video I gave it a try with an older Quadro I had on hand and it worked handily. The only problem I had was the double card entry in Device Manager, and disabling one fixed that up.
Just looked over Phil's video. He actually made it with the 939Dual-Sata2 he just needed to uninstall the x850 and after the restart it would have worked if the drivers were provided when requested. Maybe I should let him know that he was so close. In the clip he actually used the Asus P5KPL-AM-SE that had the G31. Oddly enough all through the problems I felt the urge to go the Asus P5Q Deluxe I used for the windows upgrade project, I know it has a P45 that's even more advanced but I felt that board was very stable with windows98 and even more advanced graphics cards. For this project I just couldn't accept that the 6800GS worked just for an hour, so I used an Asrock 4CodeDual Sata (VIA chipset) installed windows and got the same artefacts. I'm already thinking at a further project with a ASRock P4VM890 (similar layout but VIA chipset) with some other PCIex graphics cards. Maybe you can give me some details about your project, motherboard, quadro model, driver? Cheers!
I also didn't want to apply any unofficial patch to Win98 like supporting more ram or faster graphics cards. I guess the only way forward is using a different chipset.
I bought an ATI X850 XT from Ebay about 2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with its retro gaming capabilities, it is the AGP version though but I don't think there's much of a difference if you can get the PCI-E version to work in 98, awesome card. By the way, I think you may also be CPU bottlenecked, no hate towards the Pentium 4 northwood but I managed to push this card a lot further with a Socket 939 rig.
The cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card, yes. I used it because it was the fastest I had so I was trying my best to match the graphics card. I think an A64 is better but a core 2 duo is even better.
@@retrodrive-thru47 I understand! It really doesn't matter for a Windows 98 gaming PC though as you'll be able to max out every game even with AA and AF forced in the ATI control panel. The X850 XT is the best card for Windows 98 when it comes to performance while still maintaining good game compatibility, I tested a LOT of games and demos and nearly all of them worked out of the box with no patches required. I also tried using a 6800 GT with Windows 98 and I completely regret it. 😅😅
@@retrodrive-thru47 It was the first build i did when I moved out on my own. It had an ECS LGA 775 motherboard with a Pentium D 945, 2gb of RAM and an EVGA 7300GT AGP graphics card.
It is shady indeed. I didn't intend to mislead with it that's why I included the number values. I included it quite late in the making of the clip to justify why I didn't go back to dual channel, because it was not supported by win98 and also it would have required me to make some changes to windows 98 so in my mind it was justified. About the modern journalism part...well, I'm looking at parts from 20 years ago and I'm also not sponsored by the Single Channel (and fan) association so it's more like revisiting some retro hardware than journalism. I'm happy that someone actually mentioned this because I can go to having the full length of the chart and only mention the percent delta, incidentally I have noticed some apps do it as well, please check the Stocks on IOS.
There are plenty over here too, but most of them, like you said, are trash either by specs or by having a ton of dust and in some cases mud over them and in the slots.
@@retrodrive-thru47 there is a 32 bit driver suite.. perhaps someone has downloaded the first driver In the series and manually install them.. perhaps someone has hacked the drivers to work lol.
Great video ! Latest Windows 98 nvidia drivers are unfortunately quite buggy ... Also I've had better luck with a core 2 duo board, which uses a chipset that started on socket 478. It's based on a VIA P4M900M. Surprisingly, this chipset is almost 100% supported by windows 98 ! The only thing I couldn't get running was HDA for the sound, but I could easily use a PCI sound card instead. I managed to find a driver for everything else. USB 2.0 ? Check. Ethernet ? Check ! IGPU ? Using a driver meant for the P4M890M, it was working flawlessly (also it's basically an S3 savage 2000 inside the chipset, so it actually has very nice DOS compatibility). When I plug in a PCIE gpu, it disables itself automatically, which is also very convenient. And of course I could find drivers for the main chipset. The whole thing ran with a core 2 extreme x6800 and 2.5GB of RAM (the chipset cannot support more than this, and yes I patched windows 98 of course). This was a speed monster for windows 98 :)
Thanks, I did find another motherboard for a similar clip, the ASRock P4VM890. I guess it has the same chipset you are mentioning but it comes with socket 478 and PCIex (of course). I plan on creating a clip in the future because I couldn't let that 6800GS go. There's a lot of advice/knowledge in the comments for this clip and I can create a better clip next time. I also have some additional graphic cards to be tested. (A PCX 5300, a 6600GT, a radeon X550 and a x700) So with your information I'm pretty sure that a future clip with PCIex on Win98 will go much smoother.
I don't think your DOS results should really count, we're talking software rendering there, its being rendered on the CPU. The only thing to really look for there is if the GPU has compatibility with the resolutions used by DOS and DOS games.
Yes, you are right. I kind of left a gray area there only saying I tested it with the x300SE. It should be the same for every card in this clip. Like you said, rendering is done on the CPU so the graphics card only counts for the resolutions. Although this is not the average DOS cpu, there may be some people interested in the results. I recently got a p4 3.4Ghz so I'm planning to test another motherboard with a PCIE connector with some other graphics cards.
Good question. I started like that and soon I was patching win98 for 512mb graphics cards. But in the end it felt like a hack (and also the dual channel didn't bring in too much performance gain) and just having more than 512mb for the software I've tested was kind of pointless so (after reinstalling windows) I preferred to keep it as close to the original as possible.
I also like to keep a balance of software and hardware - having them all inside of a 2 years period so I can recreate the original feeling (and this clip is actually a very bad example of keeping a balance). This clip is more like an example of exotic hardware (around 2003-2004) made to run 6 years old software to see if it's possible and also to investigate if the drivers supported the pcie that appeard after the support ended for 98.
I see! Yes it’s nice to keep it authentic! But I also like the overpowered new hardware 98 builds. It’s like dreaming what could have been if we continued to use glorious dos based 98 windows into the future 😉
@@JohnSmith-iu8cj then patchmem, also s-ata patch, the patch for 512mb+ graphics cards are a must and probably some more I can't even imagine right now, also drivers...but it's windows xp stability under various (driver) changes that wins over 98 in the end. But I guess it a nice dream, and I would also be curious what would have been...
I have a Socket 775 PC with Core2Duo E8400 3,00 GHz, V2 SLI, G31 chipset and GeForce 7900 GT PCIe with 98SE and then another PC with Via C7 processor and GeForce 6600 GT PCIe and ME... Works. But it was and still is a lot of work with unofficial drivers and so on.
Yeah, I feel there's a bit of research you need to do before this topic and also a lot of trial and error. I was simply lucky with the Radeons, so I am thinking of a new clip taking into account everything I've learned in the comments.
Зачем брать именно 478 ддр2 PCI-e плату когда есть 775 с P4 5xx моделей с DDR?(ddr2 показывает на четверть больший потенциал чем был на самом деле у владельцев 478) X300 = ATI 9550 и можно было сравнивать с AGP версией системы. Ранние карты PCI - E не имеют больших продвижений при сравнении и основным плюсы от PCI-e пошли только с унификацией шейдерных модулей в 2006 году на моделях GF 8800 - до данного периода все массовые карты (массового сегмента) имели проблемы совместимости с новыми играми выходившими на новых DX 8-9.x как итог новые бюджетные компьютеры из магалина не могли запустить хорошую часть современных игр. Обратную совместимость (и то не полную) имели считанные единицы игр таких как HL2./ Большей объективности видео добавит MSI Afterburner (P4 его поддерживает в отличии от P3 и Athlon) - график времени кадра даст понять почему разница в цене в 10 раз была обоснована при разнице в кадрах только в 4
Thank you for the comment. I will definitely look into the p4 frametime in afterburner. Why pick these components? Because they looked exotic and left the impression that windows 98 was possible the only odd connector being the PCI-E. I wanted to see if the connector made the difference and this is the reason why nvidia never released any win 9x driver for their cards. Also I think there is another clip where I concluded that basically the early PCI-E were equal to the Agp versions.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Проблема 478 разъёма была в том, что на конец 2003 года на него стали ставить ядро которое он не мог полноценно обслуживать. Нахватало ни питания ни охлаждения питания ( костюмные колер м кулер northwood не обдували VRM)для ядра prescott работающим в офисных материнских плаьтах на 200 физических мегагерцах - как итог у большинства покупателей оно скрыто throttling и это продолжалось до конца 2006 года пока весь запас 478 материнок не был выбран с рынка... в таких условиях объективная оценка опыта с любыми видео картами теряет смысл
Yes these are difficult to find, but to really enjoy Windows 98 and the period you don't need any of these, probably a Pentium 3 or early Athlon would suffice.
I have this board and it is very rare with PCiex !!There is only one MB that is a little more powerfull then this one - Biostar G31M4!!With this two mother boards You could make the most powerfull P4 s.478 PC's.
Thanks, I kind of knew that, but since everyone is pronouncing it the US/UK way... I went along with it. There are few people from Germany watching the channel anyway :)
The problem with these modern cards and Windows 9x is that certain games require 8-bit palletized textures and table-fog. So you might as well stick to the previous generations AGP cards, such as the FX series (does great at DX 8.1) and the Radeon 9000-series like the 9800 XT/Pro. So yes, while you can run 9x with PCI-e graphics cards, and some games will run fine, you inevitably will experience compatibility issues unless you strictly stick to games that came out very late in 98's lifetime anyway.
Yes, this was something I kept in mind. I like period correct PCs. These parts kind of aligned on the lines of 2003, 2004 and 2005 that is somewhat plausible but this definitely isn't a Windows 98 PC. I had hoped that the PCX 5750 would work, that would fit the FX generation, and the x300SE is basically a 9600 of sorts. But I think you'll like my next video more. I'm actually building a Windows 98 PC for me, a socket 370 Pentium 3 with a radeon 8500 (that also may be a little too much but it's along the lines of late windows 98, just before Windows XP appeared)
@@retrodrive-thru47The 8500 is an awesome card. And I also have a very "late" 98SE gaming machine,, an Athlon XP with a Radeon 9600 Pro, which I only setup for the sole purpose of playing GTA Vice City. It really would be better suited with Windows 2000 Pro or XP. I also have a Socket 370 P3 1GHz, which I paired up with an ATI Rage 128 Pro (Fury) which is barely on par with a Voodoo 3 and TNT and it's on purpose I didn't pair it with something much faster such as a GF3 TI or GF4 TI4200 or even a GF2 GTS which would fit perfectly. I also have a Radeon 8500 and a Radeon 9100 and Radeon 9800 Pro even. All super great cards :)
I started a channel a few years ago with some friends and we showed all sorts of things. I guess 'we' stuck with me. That channel is linked in the "Featured" section of the start page for this channel. You may find some tests and retro hardware there, and also gardening tools reviews :)
Nice vid. That board makes little sense in real world. Pentium 4 already bottlenecked geforce fx and radeon 9800 agp cards like crazy. Got a p4 at 4.3 ghz to know. Maybe its just your capture card but those games did not look very good visually compaired to the agp systems i have here. Textures look washed out.
I'm also trying to use a resolution closer to that era/hardware capabilities. So it's mostly 1024 by 768, that gets upscaled to 1920x1080 by Powerdirector and then upscaled to 4k by Davinci so maybe some details/colors etc are lost along the way. But mostly because the capture card is not that great.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Maybe something gets lost with upscaling. Im playing on a 1280x1024 basic samsung monitor, but it looks much sharper and colourful. While this monitor isn't anything special. Besides that the vid is nice and informative though.
@@0MeALot0 I'm beginning to think the same thing. It's not great as most of the captures are from dark games like Wolfenstein, Halo but I think the capture colors are a bit more vivid than the final product. So the upscaling is taking away some quality. I think I will try to release my next clip just in 1920x1080.
if motherboards could be legendary.. its the socket Am2 ASROCK ALiveDual-eSATA2 the pcie and agp having mobo.. ohhh it slipped through my hands i tell you it was there on the shelf FOR YEARS!! untill i finally had the dough it was gone.. Gone gone gone never to return.. sure could now pay out the ass for a used barely alive one or a busted needs 1000$ worth of bga reballing chip and capacitor replacements... ohh it could have been sweet.. buyt no.. na dice
It is legendary, I'm currently looking into a clip with 2 ECS, one with socket 775 and the via pt880 chipset and the other one 939 with the via k8t890. Both have agp and pcie but neither support them both natively. The pt880 only supports agp and the k8t890 pcie. I think that they will make an interesting comparison. The alivedual on the other hand supports both of them natively and that makes it a great resource to have.
Nice 😊👍😊
Thank you! You are a great source of inspiration. There's something I had to let you know, if you lookup Eyetrauma's comment he pointed to your PCIex and Win98 clip and while going over it I realized that you made it with the 939Dual-Sata2 you just needed to uninstall the x850 and point to the drivers' folder once windows restarted, also sebastian19745 is relevant for that Code 12 error message.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Oh nice, another option available to us 👍 This community rocks, always something new is discovered
About those SATA ports: You can actually run them in native AHCI mode using Rloew’s AHCI9x driver
Thank you, I didn't know about that.
If I remember correctly the workaround for the not fully disable onboard video is to just set it to disabled in the device manager.
Thanks I will try it with a further project. I plan on doing a second part and really give the 6800GS a fighting chance. If you want to see other parts just leave a message.
Recently I spotted one on the local market and I never knew there were 478 socket with PCIE-x, got love Asrock for their motherboards.
One of the best, if not the best AGP and PCIe-x combo motherboard is from Asrock dual vsta.
Great video.
Its time will come. Incidentally I used one in the making of this clip. I had to know if the 6800gs was defective or if the on-board integrated Intel gma 950 was ruining the 6800gs experience for me. The answer was inconclusive as I also got artefacts after installation with that one too.
That is a really good idea and I commend you for it. I have personally run a PCI to PCI-E adapter in a Socket 8 Pentium Pro with a GT710, Windows 2000 with drivers.
Just for fun and curiosity. I always wanted to push these computers to the max. It had a ssd too on the IDE to sata bridge which always feels super fast to me.
Wow, that's taking it to extreme :). Personally I also plan a look at a socket 8 but I would prefer a conventional approach. Any reccomandations for the OS? I kind of inclined towards NT4 but many people use win 2000.
@@retrodrive-thru47 The thing to consider with NT based OS is that they are extremely stable because of the Hardware Abstraction Layer or HAL. That is why the minimum CPU jumped from from 40 MHz to 233 MHz from Windows 95 to Windows XP (Vista was egregious at 600 MHz). It takes more CPU to run a HAL, the trade off is less blue screens. An ideal computer that used most of the CPU power you gave it would run Windows 95 with updated drivers and software but we won't get that until that OS becomes Open Source.You might look at 98 SE as I believe many drivers exist for it and it is still HALless. There was even a version of Crysis Maximum edition that said it supported 98 SE but no one ever tested it.
@@ChristopherKubilus-k8e OK, I know about HAL but personally I don't find it taking away performance. If you have the patience for another clip on this channel, Best retro OS by comparison, using a p4 2.4ghz I've come to the conclusion that windows xp is faster using that cpu than windows 98 for most of the tests. So from a performance point of view the newer versions of windows are more efficient with the hardware. That video in itself may not very well made since it was the second I've done but to me was on of the hottest topics I could think of and I plan to follow it up with other CPUs and configurations as soon as I figure out why the AMD had the issues.
@@retrodrive-thru47Don't forget there is plenty of variation in Drivers as well. Oldest drivers for newer hardware often neglect older hardware. I think in specifics of the Graphic Cards. All I know is you can't run Windows XP on a i386.
What can I say, congratulations for sticking until the end with the idea, I would have installed XP after 2 hours!
I actually did. To check on the precious 6800gs after it artefacted. But I came back to 98 afterwards.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Permanently :)
Wow, now that's a powerful windows 98 machine!
Yes, it wasn't my initial intention. I just wanted to see if pciex could be used with windows 98. And I was very lucky to get so many responses to fix the issues in this clip.
@@retrodrive-thru47 It's great to be reminded how much Windows has evolved! It needs to evolve more honestly, especially now in 2024.
I always look forward to your videos. They are so well-made, and your voice is so relaxing - I could listen to you talk for hours! I hope you keep making content, and I hope you get many more subscribers!
Thank you! I'm glad you find it relaxing but I'm not quite sure about the voice. I guess to everyone their voice sounds a bit weird when you hear it played back.
@@retrodrive-thru47 I suppose that may be true. :D
Socket 478 whit PCI-E and DDRII. This is total overkill!
LoveTi!
I'm trying not to let myself get overboard with overkill builds :)
There is either something going on with your Wind98 setup or with the drivers themselves. The fastest video card that I have been able to get working in Windows 98SE with the modded drivers is the Geforce 7900GTX. Those modded drivers supposedly support the original 8800 GTX chips but I have not been able to get any of them working. Benching with 3DMark and a C2E x6800 at 3.2-3.3Ghz is amazing.
Running dual channel RAM should also help your scores a bit.
Yes, the comments made some light onto the issues I've encounter. So I have to create another video in the future, fortunately I have more odd Asrock motherboards that fit this concept.
those "modded" drivers are really text edits to the original driver. the person who edited those driver INF text probably didn't really realize that later 8000 series NVIDIA cards don't share the same architecture as the 6 and 7 series geforce graphics chipsets but still included them anyway which led to many confusion on the web.
@@explorer9049 Yes, for this clip I also text modded 81.98 but it didn't go too great for the nvidia cards.
Mine was a Core 2 Quad Q8200 paired with a Geforce 7900 GTO and a Soundblaster Audigy 2. The motherboard was the Asus P5KPL AM-SE. It only worked with the 82.69 Unofficial Drivers, so compatibility was okayish. For some very specific older Windows games to work, I had to deactivate hardware acceleration for the graphics card and restart the PC, which was a bit annoying. For DOS games, I just used DOS Box in Windows 98. There are a few sound cards that were able to run games in DOS with this configuration, but I had to disable USB in the BIOS (because of IRQ conflicts). And I also had it on dual boot with Windows XP. Then the graphics card kinda died on me and I went for a Geforce 6200LE, which was more compatible overall but too slow for Windows XP gaming.
@@retrodrive-thru47my curiosity is.. would a gtx4090 work with windows 98se?
I'm glad to see more people out there experimenting with weird Windows 98 hardware. Though I'm even more amazed to see you got an X850 to work for so long! My "Worlds Fastest 98 PC" build went through about 8 of the poor things before I finally gave up and stuck to Nvidia. Though I didn't experience weird graphical artifacts with my 7800 GTX
The x850xt could be stable as long as you wish. Once the driver was "installed" I couldn't find any issues with it. As for wierd hardware, Asrock was king in that day.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Mine all seemed to succumb to the lead-free solder issue with their RAM chips which kept the system from POST-ing. Maybe one day I'll try again to get a working one
@@CursedSilicon I have an x850 with that exact those symptoms, or maybe I have 2 :)), and an X800 AGP. I don't have the skills and tools for this, maybe some day I will.
Excellent video. I never even considered the possibility of PCI-E and Windows 98.
Thank you. I'm now considering the possibility of a second clip with another motherboard that has a VIA chipset that I hope has better compatibility, and it also has 3 PCIs so either a Sound Blaster live and 2 Voodoo2s or a soundblaster, an A3D and a voodoo. Also I don't like loose ends and I think that the 6800GS from this clip can really do 98 rather good so I need to try it with another motherboard.
@@retrodrive-thru47 I still have my old Aureal A3D sound card and my Geforce 8800 GTS GPU. Both stil work!
just found your channel great content you gained a subscriber
Thank you!
The conflict at 8:30 is between RadeonX850 primary and Standard VGA also Primary. I would delete the Standard VGA card instead of disabling the primary Radeon. Actually you have two drivers fighting for the same resources and only one card.
It happened to me sometimes to have issues with vidoe cards because of the same fail in Win98. After I removed the standard VGA, the new installed driver kicked in and all was working well.
Actually at 8:34 the message tells you exactly that: disable the Standard VGA.
Great, I will follow this advice in a future video.
Fascinating, thanks man!
You're welcome.
I recently purchased a pair of GF6600 PCIe to play around with like this, I have the corresponding AGP variants of these at hand too. just to see what works and not with my newer stuff even if I have a ton of old gear working
I bought it broken, repaired it but the SB failed and it was the end of it. I was very curious on how it would have behaved with W98 as a retro pc.
Guess I have my answer :)
I had one broken component that I couldn't identify, could you give me the markings on component Q748 (on the right of ram slots, close to hole H6)?
I hope I covered as much as possible for your answer. The markings say "M098" on the componet Q748. I also have another clip in mind with an ASRock P4VM890 and a few other Radeons and Nvidias. The VIA should have better compatibility and maybe the 6800GS would behave this time.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Well, it is an oddity. Usually I associate s.478 with DDR, not DDR2 + PCIe. The main problem faced by most is drivers, but you got it covered.
ASROCK spat out a lot of those strange boards. Even s.939 with AM3+ chispets, that obviously are rare and cost a fortune.
Thanks for the help, thanks for the video!!
4:10 this type of chip is still today on every pcie device now it is called a pcie bridge chip. this thing serves now more than a converting something, it contains the device type, id, vendor information and such usefull things also it handles the hot plug funktion and device isolation so in case something goes wrong the pcie bus is not damaged, shorted or distorted. it prevents cross talking and strengthening the signal integrity. also it does the power control of the device. one thing to pci and pcie this is ,it can be hijacked. pcie or pci devices that working like a master system can parasitic hijack some datelines so the pc cant access them. intel nuc cards with a pcie shaped edge board connector doing this if placed in a normal pc mainbord instead in its special designed mainbords. on start up both systems fighting against each other and who is faster with testing signal dampening and setting up its configuration and its signal pattern wins over that particular line and all ports and devices are connected with the same line are nor onder the controll of the winner. in a pcie system this can be mean the parasitic device has the control over the chip set and therefore the pc looses the full access the its own chip set. for example you have a mainbord with a B550 chip set and putting in a x4 pcie slot your intel nuc compute card and this pcie slot is directed or handled by the cpip set because your cpu has not enough pcie lanes as your manboard has. in that chase some of them are handled by the cpip set. the problem is here now the B550 is compatible with the N100 cpu because the N100 is a normal i3 internal with minor differences and also the chip set itself is connected over 4 pcie lanes to a cpu with lanes are used is does not matter and this chip set controls over 80% of all io of your mainbord so your cpu looses the ability to use all this io. now you have a cpu in your mainbord doing nothing or is limited in its action and maybe is in panic mode and shutdown but your nuc can now use all your usb ports. your additonal pcie lanes thats not provided by the cpu and has access to your haddrives and all that.
i know this sound weird but this can happen that is why those cards have a bridge chip. but fortunately there are practically none pcie or pci cards in the wild that can do this except for some reason intel thinks this was a good idea making a pc shaped like a pcie card and also making an pcie pin compatible connector that fits in the same connector on the mainboard. so people thinks yayy now i can have a pc in my pc and now those people findig it self in this weird situation. like me ^^
i have reading many articals to understand why this at first glance random things happen. i have lerned a lot how those things really work and wonder why some features are so rare like port bifurcation and detached or isolated mode and such things also Why PCIe on some motherboards, especially gaming motherboards, do not adhere to the standard and omit features, which leads to problems in future applications. for example using it as a home server. Some PCIe cards will simply not work or function incorrectly. And thanks to the "improvements or optimizations" you also have no way of isolating the card and debugging it in a running system. And from external inspection you won't find any errors that are caused by software and that's all just so you get fed up with 301 fps in games 300. or simply because the manufacturer has enough space on the bios chip just so that you have pretty colorful graphics that you can see once and you won't be able to go into the bios for the next 10 years because you have set everything you need and don't want anything more change.
The use of such chips came at the cost of latency. Thats why there was almost no difference in between AGP 4X or 8X vs PCI-E. Even till this day you'll see higher end cards still scaling well on even PCI-E 1.
I'm surprised you didn't compare the AGP x850 vs the the PCI E x850 to see if there is a difference.
I did compare AGP vs PCI-E a while back on the channel (granted it was 3850 and 7900) but I also did this kind of comparison for myself a few years ago and it usually turns out (if you do it on a motherboard with a good implementation of AGP and PCI-E) that if you have graphics cards with the same frequencies they are equal. The manufacturers usually have slightly higher memory on the PCI-E therefore sometimes these need to be underclocked a bit. But it's a good idea for a future video. Maybe I can do a series with all the couples of PCI-E - AGP cards I have, as I have specifically collected many similar cards like that.
Yup even though pci e not officially supported i didn't have any issue running windows 98 se with geforce 6200 pci e
I plan to give it a go on windows 98 on a future video.
@@retrodrive-thru47 keep you busy especially drivers more picky....I lived them days i'm glad where past that now lol
@@retrodrive-thru47 Also anything more then 1 gb ram your going have issue. There is patch but ideal 512 mb more then enough
I have a motherboard in reverse so to say. It has a socket 775 with an AGP slot. The upside is that it's easier to find high clock cpus for cheap compared to finding s478s at the same speeds. I've ran a 3,2Ghz Dual core with geforce 3 ti 200 on windows 98 with no issue. It doesn't recognize the second core though. I haven't tried it but you could technically put a 771 x5650 Xeon into it with the pinmod but it wouldn't do much for performance.
Yes, I've tried that too. I actually had a retro Pc with a asrock 4coredual, an e5800 and a GF 3 ti 200 for about 5-6 years maybe more. It was great fun. It also works with e Xeon e5450 but you need some bios modding to get all instructions available.
Surprised you had so many problems with the nVidia cards. Way back when Phil posted his PCIe 98 video I gave it a try with an older Quadro I had on hand and it worked handily. The only problem I had was the double card entry in Device Manager, and disabling one fixed that up.
Just looked over Phil's video. He actually made it with the 939Dual-Sata2 he just needed to uninstall the x850 and after the restart it would have worked if the drivers were provided when requested. Maybe I should let him know that he was so close. In the clip he actually used the Asus P5KPL-AM-SE that had the G31. Oddly enough all through the problems I felt the urge to go the Asus P5Q Deluxe I used for the windows upgrade project, I know it has a P45 that's even more advanced but I felt that board was very stable with windows98 and even more advanced graphics cards. For this project I just couldn't accept that the 6800GS worked just for an hour, so I used an Asrock 4CodeDual Sata (VIA chipset) installed windows and got the same artefacts. I'm already thinking at a further project with a ASRock P4VM890 (similar layout but VIA chipset) with some other PCIex graphics cards. Maybe you can give me some details about your project, motherboard, quadro model, driver? Cheers!
I also didn't want to apply any unofficial patch to Win98 like supporting more ram or faster graphics cards. I guess the only way forward is using a different chipset.
What game is it at the start of the video?
It's Tropico.
At 1:04 my brain was like, oh look it has usb.3.0 connector the blue one.
I see what you mean. It was so subtle it took me 3 weeks to see it :)) Cheers!
I bought an ATI X850 XT from Ebay about 2 years ago and absolutely fell in love with its retro gaming capabilities, it is the AGP version though but I don't think there's much of a difference if you can get the PCI-E version to work in 98, awesome card. By the way, I think you may also be CPU bottlenecked, no hate towards the Pentium 4 northwood but I managed to push this card a lot further with a Socket 939 rig.
The cpu is bottlenecking the graphics card, yes. I used it because it was the fastest I had so I was trying my best to match the graphics card. I think an A64 is better but a core 2 duo is even better.
@@retrodrive-thru47 I understand! It really doesn't matter for a Windows 98 gaming PC though as you'll be able to max out every game even with AA and AF forced in the ATI control panel. The X850 XT is the best card for Windows 98 when it comes to performance while still maintaining good game compatibility, I tested a LOT of games and demos and nearly all of them worked out of the box with no patches required. I also tried using a 6800 GT with Windows 98 and I completely regret it. 😅😅
I remember having an ECS motherboard once that was LGA 775 and had an AGP slot and no PCI-E one. I always thought it was an oddball board.
I think I have that one!
@@retrodrive-thru47 It was the first build i did when I moved out on my own. It had an ECS LGA 775 motherboard with a Pentium D 945, 2gb of RAM and an EVGA 7300GT AGP graphics card.
The 77 nVidia drivers work perfectly fine with the 6800GS - try those.
Thank you, will try it tonight! I will let you know!
i also find those 77.72 forceware driver version slightly more compatible with the 6800 and 6600 AGP and PCIE cards.
@@explorer9049 Thank you, I already have it on my list.
3:47 that's the shadiest chart ever, you are showing a 5% improvement as if it was 70%, c'mon, what are you, modern journalism?
It is shady indeed. I didn't intend to mislead with it that's why I included the number values. I included it quite late in the making of the clip to justify why I didn't go back to dual channel, because it was not supported by win98 and also it would have required me to make some changes to windows 98 so in my mind it was justified. About the modern journalism part...well, I'm looking at parts from 20 years ago and I'm also not sponsored by the Single Channel (and fan) association so it's more like revisiting some retro hardware than journalism. I'm happy that someone actually mentioned this because I can go to having the full length of the chart and only mention the percent delta, incidentally I have noticed some apps do it as well, please check the Stocks on IOS.
Are AGP boards actually that rare now? I've got like 20 of them, they're literally trash in my area.
There are plenty over here too, but most of them, like you said, are trash either by specs or by having a ton of dust and in some cases mud over them and in the slots.
Problem is find nice agp card as most getting pretty expensive vs cheap low end pci e
@@rrcoster That's true. Apparently AGP cards have been dying en masse for a while now. I've got a box full of dead or half dead ones.
You think windows 98se would be able to cope with a gtx 4090??
Yes, it should. The 4090 is just a PCIE graphics adapter after all. It will not have any driver though.
@@retrodrive-thru47 there is a 32 bit driver suite.. perhaps someone has downloaded the first driver In the series and manually install them.. perhaps someone has hacked the drivers to work lol.
Great video ! Latest Windows 98 nvidia drivers are unfortunately quite buggy ... Also I've had better luck with a core 2 duo board, which uses a chipset that started on socket 478. It's based on a VIA P4M900M.
Surprisingly, this chipset is almost 100% supported by windows 98 ! The only thing I couldn't get running was HDA for the sound, but I could easily use a PCI sound card instead.
I managed to find a driver for everything else. USB 2.0 ? Check. Ethernet ? Check ! IGPU ? Using a driver meant for the P4M890M, it was working flawlessly (also it's basically an S3 savage 2000 inside the chipset, so it actually has very nice DOS compatibility). When I plug in a PCIE gpu, it disables itself automatically, which is also very convenient. And of course I could find drivers for the main chipset.
The whole thing ran with a core 2 extreme x6800 and 2.5GB of RAM (the chipset cannot support more than this, and yes I patched windows 98 of course). This was a speed monster for windows 98 :)
Thanks, I did find another motherboard for a similar clip, the ASRock P4VM890. I guess it has the same chipset you are mentioning but it comes with socket 478 and PCIex (of course). I plan on creating a clip in the future because I couldn't let that 6800GS go. There's a lot of advice/knowledge in the comments for this clip and I can create a better clip next time. I also have some additional graphic cards to be tested. (A PCX 5300, a 6600GT, a radeon X550 and a x700) So with your information I'm pretty sure that a future clip with PCIex on Win98 will go much smoother.
I don't think your DOS results should really count, we're talking software rendering there, its being rendered on the CPU.
The only thing to really look for there is if the GPU has compatibility with the resolutions used by DOS and DOS games.
Yes, you are right. I kind of left a gray area there only saying I tested it with the x300SE. It should be the same for every card in this clip. Like you said, rendering is done on the CPU so the graphics card only counts for the resolutions. Although this is not the average DOS cpu, there may be some people interested in the results. I recently got a p4 3.4Ghz so I'm planning to test another motherboard with a PCIE connector with some other graphics cards.
Why no patchmem?
Good question. I started like that and soon I was patching win98 for 512mb graphics cards. But in the end it felt like a hack (and also the dual channel didn't bring in too much performance gain) and just having more than 512mb for the software I've tested was kind of pointless so (after reinstalling windows) I preferred to keep it as close to the original as possible.
I also like to keep a balance of software and hardware - having them all inside of a 2 years period so I can recreate the original feeling (and this clip is actually a very bad example of keeping a balance). This clip is more like an example of exotic hardware (around 2003-2004) made to run 6 years old software to see if it's possible and also to investigate if the drivers supported the pcie that appeard after the support ended for 98.
I see! Yes it’s nice to keep it authentic! But I also like the overpowered new hardware 98 builds. It’s like dreaming what could have been if we continued to use glorious dos based 98 windows into the future 😉
@@JohnSmith-iu8cj then patchmem, also s-ata patch, the patch for 512mb+ graphics cards are a must and probably some more I can't even imagine right now, also drivers...but it's windows xp stability under various (driver) changes that wins over 98 in the end. But I guess it a nice dream, and I would also be curious what would have been...
I have a Socket 775 PC with Core2Duo E8400 3,00 GHz, V2 SLI, G31 chipset and GeForce 7900 GT PCIe with 98SE and then another PC with Via C7 processor and GeForce 6600 GT PCIe and ME... Works. But it was and still is a lot of work with unofficial drivers and so on.
Yeah, I feel there's a bit of research you need to do before this topic and also a lot of trial and error. I was simply lucky with the Radeons, so I am thinking of a new clip taking into account everything I've learned in the comments.
I have a box of old pc boards and graphics cards from late 1990s through 2000s
Sounds nice, better keep them close, they can still provide so much fun.
Victory for Team Red!
For now, I do plan to revisit this to try the 77.77 driver as it looks that it has support for the 6800 and others.
Зачем брать именно 478 ддр2 PCI-e плату когда есть 775 с P4 5xx моделей с DDR?(ddr2 показывает на четверть больший потенциал чем был на самом деле у владельцев 478) X300 = ATI 9550 и можно было сравнивать с AGP версией системы. Ранние карты PCI - E не имеют больших продвижений при сравнении и основным плюсы от PCI-e пошли только с унификацией шейдерных модулей в 2006 году на моделях GF 8800 - до данного периода все массовые карты (массового сегмента) имели проблемы совместимости с новыми играми выходившими на новых DX 8-9.x как итог новые бюджетные компьютеры из магалина не могли запустить хорошую часть современных игр. Обратную совместимость (и то не полную) имели считанные единицы игр таких как HL2./ Большей объективности видео добавит MSI Afterburner (P4 его поддерживает в отличии от P3 и Athlon) - график времени кадра даст понять почему разница в цене в 10 раз была обоснована при разнице в кадрах только в 4
Thank you for the comment. I will definitely look into the p4 frametime in afterburner. Why pick these components? Because they looked exotic and left the impression that windows 98 was possible the only odd connector being the PCI-E. I wanted to see if the connector made the difference and this is the reason why nvidia never released any win 9x driver for their cards. Also I think there is another clip where I concluded that basically the early PCI-E were equal to the Agp versions.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Проблема 478 разъёма была в том, что на конец 2003 года на него стали ставить ядро которое он не мог полноценно обслуживать. Нахватало ни питания ни охлаждения питания ( костюмные колер м кулер northwood не обдували VRM)для ядра prescott работающим в офисных материнских плаьтах на 200 физических мегагерцах - как итог у большинства покупателей оно скрыто throttling и это продолжалось до конца 2006 года пока весь запас 478 материнок не был выбран с рынка... в таких условиях объективная оценка опыта с любыми видео картами теряет смысл
i'm surprised u didn't use Nglide which does work with Windows 98, good vid tho
I planned on adding a Voodoo 2 to the system but there wasn't enough space for the graphics, sound card and the voodoo. Maybe with a future project.
@@retrodrive-thru47nglide would give 3dfx graphics via the Geforce 6800 card.
So no need for an additional voodoo card 😊
Neither to find a 775 mobo with a AGP slot, nor a PCI-E GPU with win9x drivers. All of them are the most difficult part of building a retro PC.
Yes these are difficult to find, but to really enjoy Windows 98 and the period you don't need any of these, probably a Pentium 3 or early Athlon would suffice.
I have this board and it is very rare with PCiex !!There is only one MB that is a little more powerfull then this one - Biostar G31M4!!With this two mother boards You could make the most powerfull P4 s.478 PC's.
Awesome, HALO just needed 640x480 30Fps to run properly, anything better is just extra
I think Halo deserves better than that :) but indeed being released for the original Xbox we can say that it needs an even lower one. :)
Привет с Казахстана, хорошее видео делаешь!
Thank you!
porsche correct pronunciation is more like "POrs-Shêh" the "êh" like a canadian...
Thanks, I kind of knew that, but since everyone is pronouncing it the US/UK way... I went along with it. There are few people from Germany watching the channel anyway :)
The problem with these modern cards and Windows 9x is that certain games require 8-bit palletized textures and table-fog.
So you might as well stick to the previous generations AGP cards, such as the FX series (does great at DX 8.1) and the Radeon 9000-series like the 9800 XT/Pro.
So yes, while you can run 9x with PCI-e graphics cards, and some games will run fine, you inevitably will experience compatibility issues unless you strictly stick to games that came out very late in 98's lifetime anyway.
Yes, this was something I kept in mind. I like period correct PCs. These parts kind of aligned on the lines of 2003, 2004 and 2005 that is somewhat plausible but this definitely isn't a Windows 98 PC. I had hoped that the PCX 5750 would work, that would fit the FX generation, and the x300SE is basically a 9600 of sorts. But I think you'll like my next video more. I'm actually building a Windows 98 PC for me, a socket 370 Pentium 3 with a radeon 8500 (that also may be a little too much but it's along the lines of late windows 98, just before Windows XP appeared)
@@retrodrive-thru47The 8500 is an awesome card. And I also have a very "late" 98SE gaming machine,, an Athlon XP with a Radeon 9600 Pro, which I only setup for the sole purpose of playing GTA Vice City. It really would be better suited with Windows 2000 Pro or XP.
I also have a Socket 370 P3 1GHz, which I paired up with an ATI Rage 128 Pro (Fury) which is barely on par with a Voodoo 3 and TNT and it's on purpose I didn't pair it with something much faster such as a GF3 TI or GF4 TI4200 or even a GF2 GTS which would fit perfectly.
I also have a Radeon 8500 and a Radeon 9100 and Radeon 9800 Pro even. All super great cards :)
whos "WE" ?
I started a channel a few years ago with some friends and we showed all sorts of things. I guess 'we' stuck with me. That channel is linked in the "Featured" section of the start page for this channel. You may find some tests and retro hardware there, and also gardening tools reviews :)
This is a cool board :O pciex with 478 ooooooOWo
If only that motherboard had DDR3.
Nice vid. That board makes little sense in real world. Pentium 4 already bottlenecked geforce fx and radeon 9800 agp cards like crazy. Got a p4 at 4.3 ghz to know. Maybe its just your capture card but those games did not look very good visually compaired to the agp systems i have here. Textures look washed out.
Yeah, it's the capture card, not very good.
@@retrodrive-thru47 no problem, its probably better then nothing.
I'm also trying to use a resolution closer to that era/hardware capabilities. So it's mostly 1024 by 768, that gets upscaled to 1920x1080 by Powerdirector and then upscaled to 4k by Davinci so maybe some details/colors etc are lost along the way. But mostly because the capture card is not that great.
@@retrodrive-thru47 Maybe something gets lost with upscaling. Im playing on a 1280x1024 basic samsung monitor, but it looks much sharper and colourful. While this monitor isn't anything special. Besides that the vid is nice and informative though.
@@0MeALot0 I'm beginning to think the same thing. It's not great as most of the captures are from dark games like Wolfenstein, Halo but I think the capture colors are a bit more vivid than the final product. So the upscaling is taking away some quality. I think I will try to release my next clip just in 1920x1080.
Ah the intel 945
My exact same reaction when I looked up the chipset on the board!
if motherboards could be legendary.. its the socket Am2 ASROCK ALiveDual-eSATA2 the pcie and agp having mobo.. ohhh it slipped through my hands i tell you it was there on the shelf FOR YEARS!! untill i finally had the dough it was gone.. Gone gone gone never to return.. sure could now pay out the ass for a used barely alive one or a busted needs 1000$ worth of bga reballing chip and capacitor replacements... ohh it could have been sweet.. buyt no.. na dice
It is legendary, I'm currently looking into a clip with 2 ECS, one with socket 775 and the via pt880 chipset and the other one 939 with the via k8t890. Both have agp and pcie but neither support them both natively. The pt880 only supports agp and the k8t890 pcie. I think that they will make an interesting comparison. The alivedual on the other hand supports both of them natively and that makes it a great resource to have.
Now put a 4090 in it 😂
I would if I had one, or could afford one. :))
Its never PCI-Ex. Always PCI-E. Theres also a PCI-X.
Yes you are right, i'll correct it soon. Thank you.